As we rise this evening on Monday the
26th of February for this this
ordinary meeting of council and in
rising this evening and the first order
of business of course is to acknowledge
country and in acknowledging country
today I wish to pay my respects to the
Elders of the past the present and those
that are emerging I pay my respects to
any Aboriginal people here with us today
and welcome you to this place and it
will be later in this week that we
get to celebrate again some fabulous
local artist Kev Mundy who has been
working with one of our other local
artists Randall Cinnamen is doing a
small showing for Shoalhaven City Council
so i' be really great to welcome him and
give him some support in his endeavors
as an artist and also in
acknowledging too that on the weekend
Auntie Joyce gave a rousing Welcome to
Country just up the road in
Switzerland I mean Kiama at the Kiama
Masala Festival where the coming
together with the Indian Community
and the original Community was really
wonderful to watch where that
crosscultural exchange happened
particularly around dance and song can
we now please take a moment to reflect
in
silence
have
everyone one in attendance this evening the
proceedings of this meeting including
the presentations deputations and debate
will be webcast and recorded and made
available on council's website under the
provisions of the code of meeting
practice our code of meeting practice
states that it is not the intention live
streaming recording and Publishing to
capture those attending the meeting in
the gallery however this may occur due
to camera angles and seating
arrangements by attending this meeting
your consenting to your image Voice or
comments being webcast and recorded and
should refrain from making any
defamatory statements your attendance at
this meeting is taken as your consent to
the possibility that your image and your
voice may be recorded and broadcast to
public under the code of meeting
practice I'd like to remind all of our
councilors joining remote on Section
5.2 being that a councilor must give
their full attention to the business of
proceedings of the meeting when
attending the meeting by a link the
council's camera must remain on at all
times during the meeting except as may
be otherwise provided for under this
code supplementary to that of course we
have the code of meeting practice and
the code of conduct and meeting Behavior
Council and committee meetings are held
to engage discussion on various issues
and to reach decisions as
Representatives of the public this
meeting is Guided by the council's code
of meeting practice in conjunction with
the code of conduct therefore I would
like to remind both councilors and the
public who are joining us today that our
meeting principles dictate treating each
other with respect and that all
attendees should behave in a manner that
Fosters a safe respectful and orderly
environment our adopted code of conduct
which is based on the model code
strictly prohibits intimidation
intimidation harassment or verbal abuse
the code of meeting practice this
empowers the chair to hold in Jour
meeting in the event of escalating
behavior and disorder furthermore the
chair has the authority to remove anyone
in attendance from the meeting if their
conduct is deemed inappropriate
consequently I kindly request that
everyone present at today's meeting
conducts themselves in a way that
reflects respect safety and
reasonableness so councilors we know
that we've got the apologies sorry a
leave of absence from Council and Moo
D'ath you have a leave of absence you
wish to apply
for thank you second please for that
thank you councilor Copley need to
sent the leaves of absence being
accepted that they that is carried and I
also please someone confirm the minutes
from the ordinary meeting of the 12th of
February thank you councilor Wells
second by councilor White any
discussion or otherwise on the minutes
from from that meeting there being none
I'll put those are there any dissenting
voices there being
none then that will be carried than
you I don't believe there are any
petitions to be presented this
week and declarations of interest
councilors does anyone have any
declarations of interest that they need
to manage at this point if not should
any rise then we'll just manage that as
we go through the
meeting just check online no thank
you so councilors it did come to you as
an added report so can I have someone
move please that the end being
introduced thank you councilor White
second by councilor Gray any dissenting
voices they're being none and that is
carried and there was a Mayoral minute
was an addend to you this evening was
just to recognize great friend of
Nara which is a former Sergeant Kevin
Henry from the Nara police who
finally retired after 35 years of
service to the Nara area many of you
would have been familiar with Mr Henry
and his contribution that he's given
to our community and that's been you
know one that's been greatly appreciated
he's achieved many many milestones
across his his career but the
thing that he really liked the most
was working as a mind stopper and
making sure that people were able to be
able to be re-educated in a good and
decent way and he was always a good one
to stop and he would stop people and say
hey you're not doing the right thing
there mate I think that you should
take a breath before you do anything
further that'll end you up in jail
so he was a a great advocate and I'm
really pleased to be able to bring this
to you this evening and I seek a second
and thank you councilor Kotlash is there
any further discussion on that one it
being none then I'll put the motion I
need to send voices they're being n and
that is carried thank
you so we got a deputation councilor
as many of you would have received
the deputations that would have come
back sorry you would have received a
deputation in hard copy from
Mrs Brenda Duffy in regards to the
issues on Nebraska Estate this evening so
just if you haven't read that I commend
that reading to you but we also have
another deputy this evening Jack
Denny is here this evening come on down
Jack make your way on down to the
microphone here Jack's here this
evening to speak for the recommendation
of Cl2445
which is the notice of motion
for the creation of an asset protection
Zone over lot 30 in dp1
28575 8 at Catalina Place and Lot 29
dp282389 Wirraway Boulevard at Badagarang welcome
Jack thank you good afternoon Madame
mayor councilors general manager and
staff my name is Jack Denny my wife
Elise who is sitting in the gallery with
our son Henley and I own ? road CAD
events our business was the 2023 Shoalhaven
business of the year which is just
one of the many awards we've been
honoured to
receive I'm now born and bred some of
might remember me from many local
business and Community groups I'm a
part of in 2018 Elise and I decided to
back ourselves and purchase a food truck
and start a catering business to provide
elevated street style catering in our
region we have poured everything we have
into this business and we're really
proud to have seen grew from strength
to strength despite many
challenges we have faced with particular
Over The Last 5 Years From bushfire Covid
lockdowns floods and in recent times
economic and workforce shortages
challenges with these challenges our
business planning has involved
purchasing a block of land that we can
build a duplex on and offer housing to
attract in particular chefs to our
region and ongoing viability of our
business we invested everything into our
block at Taylor's Landing in the Shoalhaven
newer suburb Badagarang in early 2023
and when our DAM and
plans were submitted to council last
year we were heartbroken to be told the
block now has a bow rating the flame
zone it's too high to approve our
plans to build a single story duplex we
would require the bow to be 29 or below
we were devastated and have been left
financially struggling by the situation
given the interest alone on our block at
$600 a the
week and of you know and to count rates
water Etc the stress has been
detrimental to our health and our
business as this has been constant
strain on us for 6 months
now we also have paid upwards of $20,000
in getting plans prepared for lodgment
with our South Coast local builder but
there is a glimmer of
hope we have been advised if councilors
tonight approve a 10 m asset protection
Zone at the back of our block we can
bring our plans forward with some
adjustments and still proceed there is a
precedence for this in other parts of
the Shoalaven most recently in South
Nara I urge you to please support the
measures so that we have done so we
don't have to let go of our dream and
continue to provide and also to
additional housing in the sh Haven which
we so desperately need thank you for
your time and consideration of this
matter we have the support of the
Shoalhaven business community and I hope you
we have your support tonight thank you
thanks Jack don't leave yet don't leave
come Jack I just want to check in and
see if any of the councilors have a
question for you this evening thank you
councilor
Kotlash
yes my buttons on I don't have to press
it I like this it's great when you press
the button because then that'll put you
in the queue thank
you am I in the queue you are fantastic
you're on your feet you're great thank
you very much for your deputation it's
always lovely to hear from people who
have these sort of real world problems
that we don't often get to hear about so
tell me when you bought the block of
land what was fire rating for in terms of
its Bush LS it wasn't it wasn't and
Council never asked for that so it
wasn't
mapped is anything extraordinary
just a block of
land so you bought the block of land
without a a rating on it and then how
did it it come to be rated what happened
there it was it was rated for the RFS
afterwards after you bought land
right
yes than turn that off that's it
beautiful I'm just going to check
with our colleagues online does
anyone online have any questions to to
Jack this
evening councilor Wells just before I
come to you can I just ask Josh can
you come and give me a hand for a minute
and come and pin the councilors so that
I don't see the agenda and I can see
their faces a bit easier there's a
few of them and it's because they're
about the size of a postage stamp so
okay Jack councilor Wells thank
you great presentation Jack thank
you Jack which of the lots is your
lot from my reading of the mapping
your block and the one next door is
almost unsalable if that correct so what
did you pay for the block
yet
thousands you stand to lose an awful lot
of
money building a house on that lot to
battle or fire attack level 40 what does
that add to the cost
uh
$50,000 on top of the 430 and the
standard b 29 house it's it just doesn't
stake object does
it I'll be asking for
Council to exercise compassion to you
and all of the other land
holders but in so doing I'm going to
move that we put a procedure into
our so Council Wells is there another
question to Mr
Denny that's the only question I have
great
thank you very much ? the rest of the
discussion for that councilor Copley
you've got a
question the only person or the only
family that's impacted by this late
decision is that
correct that was my next question so
this actual situation applies to
another eight potential people who would
be in a similar situation that you find
yourself now right so it definitely is
something that needs sorting out now
would you
agree okay thank
you any further questions council
Norris no okay thank you thanks
Jack so councilors we'll go to the call
over of the business papers before we
go to to the substantive discussion
obviously the creation of the asset
protection Zone will be the the item
that will come forward first so in
the next section then in the committee
reports as I flagged to you I'd
like to pull out the report for the
homelessness advisory committee does
anyone wish to pull out the report on
the Aboriginal advisory committee if not
going to have a move for that please
Thank You moveed by councilor white
seconded by councilor gray is any
dissenting voices in receiving the
report from the Aboriginal advisory
committee there being no dissenting
voices CL
2437 the report from the advisory
committee for the proposed road closure
part comton Grange Road comton further
information required and report back
recommended to the ordinary meeting of
the 26th of February is now passed
Council ? in City performance
does
2441
councilor
Christen 2438
contractors does anyone wish to
withdraw the investment report and have
any questions on that can I have a
mover for that please thank you moved
by councel Wells seconded by councel
Copley there's no dissenting voices
there being no dissenting voices then CL
24.4 the invest report is carried
unanimously City futures the Nebraska
estate Shoalhaven River Festival and the
liability census does anyone wish to
withdraw any of those councilor
white does anyone wish to move then the
Nebraska
estate thank you so moved by councilor
white second
?
councilor Copley thank you thank you
councilor Christen any further any
discussion sorry or any descent on the
Nebraska estate motion there being none
then that is carried so CL
2442 Nebraska Estates and Georgia basing
Basin planning proposal options
carried unanimously thank you city
services does anyone wish to withdraw
actually CL 40 24.4 8 that report
needs to be withdrawn and I need a
motion to do so and I'm happy to put the
motion that it be withdrawn and returned
to the next meeting do I have a second
for that thank you councilor Darth
I'll put I'll put that one do I have any
dissenting voices on something being
withdrawn no then item CL 2448 the
exemption to Temp tender the king
along a boardwalk at Warden head has
been withdrawn so to the other three
item ads within that batch of business
papers councilor gray which one would
you like to withdraw C old
2447
please councilor
white great does anyone wish to pull out
withdraw 45 or
46 if not can I have someone move them
please thanks councilor white seconded
by councel Wells is there any dissenting
voices that those two items are now
carried there being no dissenting voices
then CL
2445 the proposed road closure for part
bucking Street at Mok has carried
unanimously and cl
2446 the open portion of the CL sorry
tenders for the full service pavement
Rehabilitation for yville Road chains
2.25 to 3.9
km City Lifestyles does anyone wish to
withdraw either of
those if not I S A mover for the two
papers thank you councilor Wells
seconded by councilor white are there
any dissenting
voices there being no dissenting voices
then the following items are passed
unanimously CL 2449 the request for
parks and
memorials C
24.50 the application for count
endorsement to expand the boundary of
the kangaroo Valley Community
consultative
body does anyone wish to ask any
questions or anything on the
acquisition of 78 Railway Street in well
there's not much to ask in open but yeah
so have someone move that please thanks
councel Wells second by councel kotash
any dissenting voices there being none
then CL
2451 the acquisition of 78 Railway
Street Bomer Lot 1 dp2
23965 is carried
unanimously and then we'll go to the uh
notices of motion when we get there
but can I now also then ask for a
procedural motion to bring forward uh
the notice of motion CL 2454 thank you
councilor gray seconded by councilor
white any dissenting voices there being
none then that is carried so then that
brings that forward councel Wells for
you so that's page
125 so we're dealing with the creation
of the asset protection Zone over the uh
the Lots mentioned in badang thank
you councilor
Welles yes thank you madam mayor I
I'm assured that the assembled council
is here appreciate the implication of
this U bushire mapping oversight
is having on the lives of a young
couple and it's to have a veral impact
on the lives of several other couples
who are seeking to pursue their dreams
out there at Taylor's
Landing
I believe the council has some level
of
responsibility in assisting these
people who address the situation by be
drawing a line on a map it's a line on a
map that will have absolutely no impact
whatsoever on the maintenance management
of of the effect of land it simply
puts the bush FL attack level back from
these building Lots by 10
m and thereby allows the builders to
build to a lower bushire tech level
standard with substantial savings to uh
the owners of these Lots building to a
flame Zone standard would be akin to
living in a shipping container on the
lot that's the sort of level of
protection that requireed to install
into a habitable dwelling as Mr
Denny's pointed out there are precedents
for this we only in October last year
approved an asset protection C on
Council land that was adjacent to a
block of landown by the flake staff
group had the council not relented in
that situation and enabled that AP to be
applied a factory for the employment
of many people with disabilities could
not have been able to be do it the
council saw sense in that regard uh
enabling people with a range of
disabilities many for employment and
for for fulfillment for their lives uh
I'm seing for fulfillment for these
people's lives tonight but in so
doing you know mindful of council's
policy policy position is we don't play
with asset protection zones and Vary
them by way is for private loss but I'm
seeking an exemption to that policy in
this instance on the grounds of a
precedent the president staff of
argued took with me over nor Avenue in
South Nara was that we're dealing with a
different zoning a different lot size
and different
purpose that whil that might be the
case the fundamental principle is
identical it is allowing something to be
done and built to a different standard
and would otherwise have applied so I
don't talk to me about zonings and
purposes the principle is identical and
we should apply The Identical position
now given that the proposed
recommendation
is a variation of council policy I'm
very conscious that we should never vary
that policy again and for that reason I
put in part five of the
recommendation that requires all new
subdivision plans and application of LOD
with Council item from the date of this
resolution must be referred to the New
South Wales rural fire service for the
purpose of mapping any
requirements for asset protection zones
had that been done in this instance we
wouldn't be in the situation we're in
tonight because the subdivider would
have modified his plans to avoid that
requirement we didn't do it we didn't
have to do it the land wasn't mapped but
be registered unmapped land knowing that
there were trees on the site adjacent to
the subdivision that were going to be
protected for Environmental Conservation
purposes and for Passive Recreation we
should have taken that into account
prior to registering the subdivision
so with the safety net that I'm
proposing in cluse five I would urge
councilors to support the recommendation
in full and let these people get on with
their lives thank thanks councilor
Wells thank you I've got you listed as
the second to councilor White so
councilor Wells before I go to those
that are in the queue so what I'm just
so that you know why councilor Kristen
has a green light is that he's on the
speaking list so he's in the you but
there's a question and two more two
more modifications to the uh
recommendation before we go there thanks
Council Wells to I think through the
CEO to director Ray director Ray
there's
some mention there that perhaps council
did not do the right thing at the early
stages with the subdivision it's my
understanding that the RFS changed the
rules partway through this process and
brought in a new category so it hasn't
actually got anything to do with the
trees but it's the the rest of the
surrounding landscape can you clarify
that for me please thank you three
Madame May yes that's correct so the
original stage 1 a B of the
subdivision were approved in 2020 uh
which released 50 T title Lots around 46
residential lots in 2022 the master
developer re approached Council to reone
what was it time E2 land to uh
release another 30 Lots the Lots in
question that are impacted by the now
flame Zone were part of that stage 1 c
the new release of 30 additional Lots
in 2023 the RFS R defined flame Zone to
include grass land if you look at this s
it say predominantly a grass land site
so at the time of the original
subdivision assessments the Lots in
question were not flame affected Lots
through the the designation of grass
land as part of planning for bushire
protection the Lots in question have
now been designated and impacted as a FL
Z and just another supplementary
question to that are you aware of of
other areas within the city that now get
caught captured under this U particular
change that includes grassland three
Mad May I've have no doubt that there
will be select examples around the LGA
that will be captured by by this
and I think that's probably a
differentiating component when
dealing with this particular policy
application with with respect to
grass lands versus other what might
be Bush land like affected properties
yeah and then so that means then
obviously that's a a Statewide
obligation to all lgas that RFS has put
out indeed Madam this is not a shell
Haven specific impact this is impact
with the addition of grass land
State thank
you before I go on then Council
worlds I think that there's a couple of
opportunities that we need to do here
and one of those and I'd like to propose
another couple of amendments to
you the first one being around
advocating to the
RFS so what I'd like to include be
something along these lines or something
that's quite clearly this that Council
Advocate to the
RFS to review the inclusion of
grassland and options to allow site
specific
assessments to
address and better
Define bushire protection levels on a
site by site basis would you be
agreeable to
that
I will no it's advocating it's not got
anything to do with the rest of it
other than adding more advocacy to that
then the second part you mentioned
too that your concerns about the
policy look I have concerns about the
policy and we've already talked about
the precedent words already been used
here this afternoon and Council Wells
you know that my preference is that if
the policy is not working that the
policy be amended or at least reviewed
instead of continually disregarding
it so I'd also like to have a review
Clause put in there that so that we
review and amend the apz policy on on
apz on Council lands policy to include a
site specific
evaluation where subdivisions have been
previously approved but the recent
inclusion
of grass lands has led to a higher Bell
rating so I seek your approval for that
Amendment as
well once again Madame mayor if we're
talking about policy Amendment
relating only AP Zs I'm very conscious
that Council has policies in relation
to the lodgment of easements for a
nber of reasons over Council and land
recently for example we granted an
easement over a car park in balader to
facilitate a private development
get their storm water off their land
through Council land into the city storm
water understood but my question was do
you agree to this policy yes I do in
relation to apz but if we're changing
policies and we've got different policy
positions in relation to the type of
easement I think it should be broad more
broad ranging just apz but I'll concede
on the apz on on this occasion great
there's a second is the seconder happy
with the the two amendments
great great thank you thank you all
right so we'll go back to the speakers
list don't know why councilor Kristen
you were next to speak have you
withdrawn from that and have your
questions been
answered thank you Madame I think you
councilor Wells and you have addressed
the the main issue which is that we
prevent this kind of situation
occurring in future and causing
concern to owners and Council thank you
great thanks councilor Christen so then
that's you next councilor white and then
you councel copy so thank you this is
not the first time this has happened in
the scha Haven some of people will
remember after the bush fires at Kola
Park we did exactly the same policy
for properties down there that were
affected by property that they
couldn't achieve an apz on so therefore
they went from a building of 29 b 29
they then had to build about 40 I
raised those issues in council at the
time and they were allowed to build
back to B 20 when we gave some
undertaking to put some apz zones on our
properties down there there's also
been a situation up at North Mara where
Council approved the subdivision up
there that didn't go to the RFS and
when people went to build they paid
quite a considerable s of money for
that land up there when they went to
build they found that they had to get
easements on each other's properties
for apz zones and they had to be eans
registered on their title which cost
quite a considerable amount of money
and they weren't able to build their
houses until the neighbor gave them the
apz Zone across their property as well
on an easement so this has been a
reoccurring in sha Haven and I agree
that we should get this all sorted out
once and for all and make sure that
we do our due diligence with the RFS or
talk to the RFS about changes that need
to be made so we can have our young
people buy a block of land in the Sha
Haven thinking they're going to be able
to build their house on it and then come
all of a sudden up to all these problems
so I'm glad that we're moving forward
so we won't incur these problems into
the
future councilor
Copley
just to add my comments to those that
have already been spoken when this
was brought to my attention the main
thing that struck me was just the the
unfairness of it and you know because
a young couple may have had a different
decision about purchasing that block had
those those RFS decisions been made
before they purchased so I just think
this is critical that we do whatever
necessary to amend this and look at
the policies so that we don't have
this situation again and this is
financially really crippling people
and it's something that we do have in
our power to to look at and to fix and I
strongly hope that all of our colleagues
here tonight will see the urgency that
we have to look at this my only concern
and I'm glad that you did mention that
this won't take extra time because this
extra level of advocacy delays this
decision in any way because as we've
heard tonight they're at the end of
their tether and they need help as soon
as possible so I'm we can sort that out
this
evening hopefully advocacy enhances the
situation for everyone councel CLE and
doesn't get in the way of anything are
there any further comments I've got
two hands online I'll go first then
to councel Kristen and then to
councilor Watson as they appear in the
online list thank you councilor
Kristen Madame mayor it occurs to me
that with this
situation who where will the costs
lie in undertaking these assessments I
think I believe it should
apply should be should not all the
cost shouldn't return to council they
should be applied to the applicant in in
in doing these assessments am I am I
correct in that I'll just go through the
CEO to director repre to answer that
for you thank you thank you through you
Madam councilors these assessments
are are routinely undertaken for any
Bush fire map land as part of the
development assessment process so it
would be part and parcel of undertaking
a a typical development assessment for
any of these proposals likewise for
any land that is required or any
proposals that are required to be
referred to the RFS asurance Authority
and the maintenance as well through
Madam mayor I understand the uh
proposition through the notice of motion
is to impose positive covenants on the
individual Land Titles the main
one of the main drivers behind the
policy I can asse was that council did
not want to be placed in the position
where the larger rate base was be imp
having an impost imposed through ongoing
maintenance costs or a liability issue
in the event of a fire the imposition of
positive covenants onto individual Land
Titles will the maintenance requirements
onto individual land owners to up keep
the ap7 on Council land to an
appropriate okay that the land owners
are going to have to come together and
work with a contractor to do a bit of
mowing for them through Madam that's
correct and and in line with appropriate
maintenance thank you councilor
Watson Madam May when this item
finishes I'd like the opportunity to
declare an interest if that yep no
problem we'll we'll deal with that
whenever we finish with this item any
questions or discussion on this one
councilor
Watson
okay great thank you okay
so back to you now councilor Wells for
the writ of
reply yes councils I'm thanking you
in anticipation of your support for this
notice of motion as amended in
relation to questions asked by councilor
Chris I thought the report made it quite
clear that the the land embraced by
the easement will be subject to Covenant
and report points out that the
responsibility for maintenance of the
ement will be divested from Cil to the
land doners as will the the cost of
creating those easements so in in in
granting uh
the the generous easement of 10 m to
enable these people to build their homes
we're also becoming minor beneficiaries
in another sense I encourage you
strongly to support this recommend
Commendation thank you so for the
councilors in the room you're able to
now vote via your device but I just need
to ask for those online are there any
of our participant participant
councilors online going to vote against
the
motion no right councilor kitner can I
say you're not voting against are you
you voting for sorry I'll ask again are
you all voting for the motion
thbs up would be
awesome great thank you so I've got four
affirmatives
online right thank you I can then watch
that scoot up there thank you very much
and that is unanimous thank
you so for all of our gallery we like
kids with a new toy tonight trying to
work out a new system and it's yeah yeah
they yeah okay so anyone who was
interested in the outcome of that that
that vote was unanimous so that's
going ahead as it was printed and
amended so thank you for
that councilors that brings us back to
the beginning of the
paper and brings us back to the report
of the homelessness advisory committee
and as I flaged with with ad May
could I do that Sor you can do that now
yes thanks councilor Watson yes I was
just reading through a notice of motion
that mentioned seniors and I'm a senior
2455 so I'm going to declare a
significant Community interest and leave
the meeting at that stage okay great
thank
you I'll see how many more of us that
knocks out councilor Watson along the
way
so we might just leave that to be our
last piece of business then all right so
back to the homeless advisory uh
committee so councilors you'd be aware
that at the last meeting I wasn't able
to chair that meeting and that count
Mr Peter do stepped in and was nominated
by the committee to to chair that and
what that reminded me of was that many
of our advisory committees are actually
chaired by members of the community
and I think that it's a good model not
only does it assist our people with
their their skills in shairing a meeting
but it keeps them involved in the issues
that they're involved in so I'm just
offering an additional part to the
recommendation this evening A Part B
and that is that the terms of reference
change to read as
follows that the committee will be it's
a part sorry part six not Part B the
committee will be chaired by a nominated
community team member of the
committee and then that Peter Dober
continues in the role of the chair until
the next call meeting in September
October thank you councilor Wells thank
you any discussion on that councilors
councilor white yes and I'm just
wondering if you'd entertain a part
three of this recommendation because it
has to do with homelessness if it
can't go into this motion I'm happy to
put a separate notice motion up to
council but in relation to Safe sh
down in alab at 100 Street I'd like
to organize a meeting if I can between
safe shelter staff the homeless the
homeless
task force Sor yeah qus sorry so
councel councilor white I'm just going
to because this one's about the
reducing the Quor it's about the terms
of reference and the construction of the
committee if you don't mind let's
just do that via email let's get the
meeting sorted out and let's get that
done before the next the next meeting
and then if it's not to your
satisfaction then at the next meeting
you can raise a notice of motion does
that sound like a reasonable Way Forward
great okay so I have a mve in a second
for the motion as it stands with the
Amendments do I have any further
discussion on this
one that being none I'll put the motion
okay and I'm going to just ask are
there any desending
voices
there are no descending voices and that
motion is carried thank
you you
didn't you didn't I
apologize okay the next one was in
City performance CL
2438 which was the report back on the
questions of notice on consultations and
sorry consultants and contractors
councilor Christen you withdrew this
before you had some questions or
debating points on that
yes madame mayor thank you thank
thank Council staff for preparing the
response questions I I guess just
the feedback is that a lot of the
intention of this these questions were
to try and tease out where
Council
take o where where council is
currently competitively using
contractors and consultants for certain
tasks and spending quite a lot of money
spending on those Consultants or
contractors
to get information so as to be able
to assess whether or not there might be
the opportunity for some of those tasks
to come back inh house at a lower cost
to council perhaps lower cost and and
perhaps also quality issues you know
looking at both ends cost versus
benefit and understand that and and go
forward looking into that maybe that is
being taken up within our financial
review task force now but I'd like to
kind of flag that this doesn't the
responses don't really give us any clues
about moving forward I don't know if any
staff would like to address my ments
now or or we discuss it later thank you
yeah no we'll get to that and then I'll
come back to you councilor kotash so
I'm just going to go through the CEO to
director Hamilton and yeah thank you
yeah through you Madame mayor thank you
councilor Christen I agree this one
was a difficult task because the report
is large and it is commercial Inc
confidence so it's it's it's hard to
make this information public however
I've taken on the feedback and I do
think there's an opportunity through
those workshops to look at this in more
detail so we do have the report there
and the detail there and I'm happy to
share that with councilors during the
in the next couple of fortn night's time
at one of our
workshops great that's good that's a
great answer thank you councilor
kotash good thank you very much yes
what I propose is that we that we
accept the report and move it to a
briefing as part of the budgetary
process so we can interrogate that
information in a little more detail
without compromising the confidential
nature of it because there is a lot of
interest in this topic around Council
and we need given that given that our
Consultants run into the many many
millions of millions tens of millions of
dollars we need to have over decided
exactly where that's happening and where
it's going and if we think it's been
used well or not so incorporating into
those budget meetings will give us
the opportunity to do that and given the
amount of money involved I'd ask that we
do it sooner rather than later thank you
so that would be an amendment that says
accept the report and move it to a
briefing as part of the budget process
so I'll list list you as the Mover and
I'll list councilor Kristen with similar
concerns as the seconder and just
just in that in a brief discussion of it
I think what was quite telling in the
list though was in question eight
it's like what are the top 10
consultants and contractors that are
used by
SEC and you know first one roads rubbish
roads roads
roads infrastructure
roads
infrastructure infrastructure roads so
you know there were or yeah right up
there in the in the space where we I
guess we would expect to see the most
expensive contracts being moved out the
door so councilors any further
discussion on this understanding that
we're going to take into the briefing
Council
dark about the the top 10 consultants
and the the amount of Roads road
construction companies and so on is
that because of the natural disasters
we've had in the last
CH I'll go to I'm going to go through
the CEO to director
McIntyre three Madam mayor council is
actually undertaking a significant
amount of Road repair and Road
renewal in an event certainly the
work that the council's undertaking in
regards to natural disasters is adding
to the total workload but the use of
Consultants specifically is around uh
if you like the work that we would
ordinarily be undertaken to repair
and renew our
roads more question would the rate of
Road replacement have been more had we
not had been thatas we sort
ofing under
waterer through Madame mayor the rate
of work that we're doing at this time
in Council is a combination of both the
normal work or the ordinary work that we
doing and the natural disaster recovery
so to answer your question and that is
Grant funded typically and that is
consults typically so to answer your
question Council does not we would
not expect to see Council doing more
road work in the absence of natural
disasters but it is a distraction when
it comes to contract management
contract leadership on a
day-to-day basis the amount of if you
like back of house work that is needed
to undertake all of those contracts as
well as our own work is significant and
does have an impact on our ability to
push through that
work thank you any further discussion
councilors no okay so then would you
like to
vote okay
so I think you can only do it once too
by the way yeah and so for those that
are online you all vote in
affirmative vote for the
motion yep thank
you I'm looking for nods of heads or
hands up or thbs up great thank you
thank you Council Kitchener okay so that
is not quite unanimous but I think it is
because it sound that four that are
online will make that make that happen
thank
you all right
councilor white the child safe strategy
and the statement of commitment to child
safety that's next with you yeah I'm
happy to move this recommendation for
Council and I really want to thank
the staff for all the amount of work
that's been put in for this
strategies and statement that is being
made children are probably one of the
most important things that we have in
this city and they are our future
in the city and and I go back to my ear
days on Council when we had a children's
reference group for Council where a lot
of this type of work was process through
with the child care centers and schools
Etc and what they wanted it's very
interesting listening to a six and seven
year old about what they want to see
in their city and I understand that this
is more than that it's about reporting
Etc so it's a positive way forward and I
look forward to prog progressing it into
the future as we have to do thank you I
put councilor gray as the second or any
further discussion on the on the report
councilors none are there any dissenting
voices there being no dissenting voices
and the motion is carried thank you
Council Wells the next one is with you
which is the budget strategies and
parameters CL 2441 on page
27 thank you councilor white yes thank
you madam mayor and I thank council's
management for
preparing a range of strategies and
parameters to enable Council to
construct its 2024 25
budget I'd like to emphasize at the
outset that the interpret I I
interpret these strategies and
parameters as relating in the main to
general
fund accepting of course the salaries
and wages component which apply to all
staff irrespective of which fund employs
them I prese as we progress that
the construction of the 2425 budget that
additional strategies and
parameters will be applied to water fund
to sewer fund and to waste fund and that
as we develop the works programs the
operational plans and the capital
program for those funds together with
their supporting depreciation and other
funds management matters like loans uh
we will aggregate
ultimately U total budget for the
council which we would hopefully adopt
on the 30th of June I've therefore
taken the Liberty to include in the
management budget strategies and
parameters an amendment that makes
multiple references to general fund and
I do so for Clarity not only of council
and staff readers but of the community
at large we're primarily talking general
fund here the signif the second
significant amendment I proposed I
understand the amendment's been
forwarded to the CL minutes
per relate to the inclusion of two
additional parameters parameter K and
parameter L which refer respectively
to proposed asset disposals the
application of the funds generated by
those
disposals and secondly the parameter L
relates to
aec's report's recommendation regarding
service level reviews of council's
operations service level reviews being
those forensic examination of council's
operations to determine whether they are
more efficient ways to move forward uh
in a manner which might actually say
the council and the community some money
and for that reason I've deleted the
reference in staff recommendation to uh
continuing all continuing
Services and I've referred instead to
the services which Council signs off on
every year in this delivery program and
operational
plan a second reason for these
amendments
however referring to asset disposal
and Serv reviews is that there these
matters were referred to at length in
council's resolution 4 weeks ago in
relation to the staty rate variation
you'll recall quite a lengthy resolution
in report nber CL
2420 where those specific items were
were discussed and will be the subject
of budget
workshops I have however had at least
two members of the community asking me
with the budget stat and parameters in
the report actually relate to those
deliberations we had a month ago and the
matters that we resolved in 2420 because
it seems to be bearing very little
relation between the two and for that
reason I brought across the asset
disposals and
SVS into this particular
docent the amended recommendation
that we're putting forward also invites
staff and councilors to consider
maintaining largest operating cost
salaries and w
to 23 24 levels if at all possible
that's to consider the opportunity we
might have to actually hold operating
cost our biggest operating cost wages
and salaries this is level and I I know
that's cause for some concern and I'm
not I'm not foreshadowing the staff
have any concern at all about rances
because
2420 we resolved a month ago that there
would be no Force redund but there would
be service
reviews staff reduction staff cost
reductions can be done by natural
attrition over time and be managed by
the
administration I did put that comment
into the into the amendment for another
reason and that reason was that in this
year's budget
2324 we actually put a wages at salary
level about
$750,000 cheaper than we did in 22
23 so if we if we stick to our budget we
should spend less of salaries Rel this
year than we did in the previous year so
it it can be done however I'm open to
conversation on that but I I do want to
emphasize to council that resolving it
structural deficit situation will not be
achieved will not be achieved by
stutting and slashing Capital works it's
not a not a a slash and burn Capital
Works exercise
only operating expenses sometimes known
as Opex ongoing operating expenses need
to be contained and reduced and
possible I note that in financial year
20178 Calis of w salaries cost were 58
million in financial year
2223 last 5 years later our salaries and
wages were 88 million that's a 52%
increase in 5 years so there's been
rapid growth on that front and it's an
issue that we need if you don't want to
keep it in the recommendation move an
amendment and we'll discuss it in the uh
budget workshops
anyway finally in addition to
potential funding s additional potential
funding sources have been identified in
paragraph l and point three of the staff
recommendation in relation to roads has
been downgraded to paragraph J in the
text of the new uh
recommendation the Chief Financial
Officer and I had a conversation this
afternoon about the wisdom or otherwise
of these changes and in the main she
found them AC
acceptable so I commend the amended uh
recommendation to you however if the
amendment is not carried I'll propose
moving of a third option and that will
be deferral to a briefing this week
where the staff recommendation and the
amending recommendation plus the text of
our recommendation on the 2320 of a
month ago can be reviewed collegially we
get all our heads around it to develop a
degreed strategic parameter
framework if I going to be cheeky and
suggest it would have been nice to have
done that before we came here today but
that's The Cheeky comment and I'll go
to councilor Copley thank
you may thank you for this
recommendation coming through and on the
face of it I'm looking at it and
reasonably comfortable with it the one
thing I would like absolute Clarity on
because this is a point that I will not
move on is that any Council assets that
are disposed of are absolutely locked
and quarantined to only be used against
debt reduction or the placing of the
council in a better financial position
and not to be used for everyday
operations wages and Etc I've been
pretty vocal on that and I just want to
speak up to that point now because it's
really important that we if we're going
to sell things off we only use them to
pay down debt or to improve our
financial security and position so
through you m mayor if I may M
Buckman if you wouldn't mind just
clarifying just for all of us just so
we're Crystal Clear what gets taken out
of the unrestricted cash account so that
we know if we're selling an asset and
the money ends up in there what
potentially it can be used for or saved
against for clarity thank you through
you madam mayor when a report is
brought to council to dispose of an
asset will'll make it clear in that
report what those funds are to be used
for it is Our intention as outlined in
the aec report to either with pay
down borrowings and reduce our ongoing
interest expense or to replenish our
working capital so we do have an
objective to increase our unrestricted
cash to $15 million so they are the two
key priorities for us without asset
rationalization have any supplementary
questions Council no I just wanted that
point to be made crystal clear because
it's a significant thing if we're going
to be selling off assets that they are
quarantined into those two areas and not
to be used just in general funds or to
be used as operating expenses for the
council because that is a huge concern
for
me councilor
KES thank
you you're on I'm on thank you
yeah is this the point of the meeting
where I can ask Council Wells if he
would entertain an amendment to his
Amendment you can ask that at any time
in the meeting fantastic Council Wells I
would ask if you would have a look at
2B 2B talks about general fund fees
and charges being raised by 7.5% and in
certain cases more what I would like to
propose is that the council sit together
and look at the the Rises that need to
happen so that we can look at the Rises
that bring us the the most income in to
the group that can afford it most what I
don't want to do I don't want to see us
have a minim rise of fees of 7.5% in
an area that is a service that's
provided to people who cannot afford
that service so what I'm suggesting is
that we sit down and have a look at that
and look at increasing our fees perhaps
above 7.5% but some of them perhaps less
than
7.5% so councel kotash yeah I'm just
going to refer to miss Buckman because
Miss Buckman and the staff have been
working on the schedule of workshops and
Miss Buckman will be able to tell you
when we are exactly doing that work
thank you through you madam mayor so as
part of the financial sustainability
review program we are doing a schedule
of works with councilors and the next
Workshop as was detailed last Tuesday
night is specifically on fees and
charges so information will be provided
to council as ahead of that meeting with
our proposed structure for next year
keeping in mind mind although we have
we're considering a 72% increase every
fee is reviewed on its individual merits
and every fee is reviewed based on
whether it's statutory full cost
recovery partial cost recovery or market
value did you have further supplementary
questions no okay councilor Christen
you're
next yes Madam I'd like to make the the
same point as councilor Copley in that
it's bad enough that the council has the
level of debt it does and they not
taking any rate action to pay down that
debt because that debt is just being
kicked forward to Future Generations so
that cash debt is sitting there to then
use council's assets and not pay down
that debt is another kick in the guts
for future Generations who will have to
pay that down cuz then the capital
available Assets in C will be reduced
as well so
I I I it's Crystal Clear in the wording
that we that asset sales will be used
only to pay down debt it does appear as
if asset sales can be used to top up the
working capital and cash position which
to me I mean it seems to me like be a
case of endlessly running down the cash
position and then selling something else
to and I just don't think that's
acceptable so I agree that that the
sales of assets have to be ring fence to
reduce debt and that may then impact
on the capital
program the other aspect is I don't
think it's
a fair strategy to cap
wages on to the
20203 or level our staff out there
are suffering cost of living pressures
just the same as any anyone else and are
often not in the
same wages bracket as the private sector
so I think that's
unfair and I'd like to ask a question
Madam mayor that it's it's brought on
again that the wages have increased
tremendously it's 2017 to 2022 but I
believe that this there are other
additional reasons around that rather
than an unfed growth and I'd like to ask
if that can be explained Again by
staff as to to that those extra
positions and movement of costs
from certain areas to Under The Heading
of salary AIT costs thank you thank
you so through the CEO to miss Buckman
thank you through you madam mayor a
similar question was posed to council
offices at the meeting of the 29th of
January and we went through there four
key reasons as to why employee costs had
increased over that period
combination of some jobs that were
I'm sorry some I guess jobs yet were
previously performed by staff outside
of council through contract work and
some of that work was brought inhouse
particularly in our waste area there
was a review of salaries back in about
2019 that required an overall increase
in our salaries to level things out
there's also been increases to
superannuation and awards that have
obviously compounded throughout that
time as well so there's a nber of
different reasons as to as to
why thank you did you have any further
supplementary questions councilor
Christen no Madam mayor but I I think
based on my concerns and perhaps other
people's concerns I would pref prefer to
move this to a briefing and discussion
rather than trying to thres it out here
and it's particularly hard to try and do
that
you know so many elements of this
thank
you thank
you just some commentary and some
questions as well I guess in the in
the questions I agree with Council
Christen that the discussion around
Staffing nbers from 2017 2018
through to the current Staffing levels
have now been answered the understanding
that we've had to you know onboard a
nber of people who are working as
contractors which is relates to the
conversation earlier was it is it
cheaper better or however to have
contractors do the work or have
council's own staff do the work and I
think in the onboarding of the staff
that we've seen in those years that that
proves the point for some areas it does
work that way in in other areas it
does
not the question around the point
that was made
about not achieving our savings of 25
million just by doing the slash and
burn of capital I guess one of the
things that one of the questions that's
on the community's mind is that when we
reduce the capital burden what is
the impact of that and why would capital
projects be the first area to have a
look
at
thank you Madame mayor so importantly
there's some really important points
raised tonight and I just refer to
councilor Kristen if I may in
relation to the work shopping we can
certainly give you another briefing on
this as we discussed last week so to
to help you get across that to to move
this forward in terms of the capital
project delivery causing some
projects will have an immediate impact
on the budget some of the other
operational changes which the
organization is absolutely committed to
progressing we have full planning
the way for the resolution of of the
29th and progressing the items in the
AC report will take a longer time to
realize because they're not as immediate
in their impact and in fact some of
them might require cost before any
savings are realized so that's my high
level smary but Katie if you want
to add any point so would be great thank
you here you madam may there's two extra
points that I would like to make the
parameters that we're discussing tonight
are for draft budget we will be
workshopping the operational budget and
capital budget with councilors
throughout the month of March so
whilst we're endorsing these in
principle there will be an
opportunity to flex bits and pieces
as we go through that P that that
process the other comment in regards
to considering capital projects a lot
of of the projects that we are
considering are those new projects that
come with additional operational costs
so we are reviewing those to make sure
that if we are going to continue with
those projects we are in a position to
continue to take on that additional
operational expense that we will incur
by doing
those thank
you so just I want to make a comment and
picking up on the thread of councilor's
Copley and Kristen around the selling of
assets as well so even though I know
Council Wells that you've brought those
those issues into this particular motion
which in some ways are kind of not quite
relevant to the setting I don't feel
that they're quite relevant to the
setting of the budget for the year ahead
the only reason why I don't feel that
they're relevant for that is because
it's going to take some time to realize
the asset sales and we're going to need
to spend some time and get some stuff uh
work done to make those things happen so
I you know we'll see something happen in
the sale of assets within the next 6 to
12 but it won't have an you know it
won't start to see that impact until a
little bit later on the other issue that
I have a real problem with is point
2C in the resolution that youve put
forward this evening and you in the
2C part of the resolution you talk about
salary and wages being increased so the
the resolution that was put by staff
said that we needed to
adhere to the state award plus the
bonuses that the some of the staff are
on so that's 3.5 plus whatever bonuses
and that if we consider maintaining
we need to consider the maintaining the
budget in this
year's
Lane why I have a real problem with that
and as I've discussed with you
3.5% may sound like a very nominal
amount of money but once you add in
the bonuses and so forth what we're
looking at is effectively a $6 million
cap on those particular wages I'm
very concerned about that and I would
ask that you withdraw that that
portion of it and so make part
C that you take out Council consider
maintaining the budget allocation of
wages and salaries so just have it as it
was printed by the staff in the
original report and not the
embellishment on it because what I think
that that does is that I think that it
sends the wrong message to the staff
we've already told staff that we don't
want to have redundancies that we
want to make sure that our staff are
cared for in the best possible way
and I think that that runs counter to
that narrative so I'd seek that you
make that Amendment
councilor Madame mayor you can move that
as an amendment I'm happy to move it and
seek a second thanks councilor gray
thanks councilor Boyd
so Council then we need to debate
that
Amendment unless there's no debate
really on the amendment Council
kotash my concern is not with the 3
and a half% it's not with paying bonuses
it's not with the staff that we have at
the moment it's around the cost of our
wages last year included the positions
in our council at the moment that are
vacant and may not be filled so that
money will have a Quant and we don't
know what that Quant is so really
until we know what that Quant of
unspent wages from last budget is going
to be we don't know whether or not we
need a
3.5% wages cap or a or a 1% addition to
the budget do you get where I'm going
with that I think you've actually made a
really good argent for why it
shouldn't be changed yeah do you want
me to refer it to the CEO to get some
through to yeah I'll go through to miss
Buckman thank you through you madam
mayor we do include a vacancy factor in
our budget so whilst we start with
budgeting at 100% of our total
approved organizational structure we do
apply a vacancy Factor so our current
year budget is already considering that
there's roles that are vacant and we
aren paying what we also have though
is in our current budget Step
increases haven't been included to the
extent that they should be so we are
actually tracking on on budget even
though we do have some vacancies and
with the rate moving forward I just want
to clarify so the state award is the 32%
so that's legislative the bonus is
also a new inclusion under the award
so that's not discretionary to this
Council it is included under the
legislation and there's also step
increments that staff are are
entitled to under the award as well
so they're all governed by the local
government award it's not us without our
discretion yes please I'm a bit
surprised that we don't include those
quants in our wages Bill I'd have
thought that we were onto that and we
would know what's coming and we would
have that ready to go as opposed to just
3 and half% is the nber that goes for
yeah so in terms of this budget setting
for next year the step increases are
absolutely included in that the
methodology for setting the budget this
year has changed as I did explain to
council as last Tuesday so there's a
few different areas where we are
doing more of a deep dive into what the
actual need is for those budget lines
and the inclusion of that step increase
we we do know who is entitled to an
increase based on as long as they're
performing as they should be they will
be entitled to that and we are including
that into the fy2
budget thank you very much for your
clarification and it's a pleasure to
have you working at
sh so councilors do we need to have
any more discussion on the amendment
which removes that line from part 2
Council
Wells as M may I discussed this matter
again with some length with the chief
and this afternoon I think we need
to understand the implication of the
award pment the the award provides
3.5% increase in Bas salaries for all
staff in the local government sector it
also provides a bonus payment of
$1,000 for staff members that ,000 equ
to an additional 1% so the actual burden
on the B is
4.5% and then as Mr Mr pman has pointed
out there is a step factor which is
progression within your grade or
actually between grades as your
experience presably skills and
knowledge grow and that adds another 1%
to the package so the overall
anticipated increase in wages this year
will be about
5.5% which converts to $6
million which is slightly more
additional Revenue we're going to raise
with the rate
pay so all the rate pag money all the
rate increases the general fund are
going to go to wages I just want to
point that out as you proceed to
modify this motion by deleting any
reference to considering future
management that line
on Council I think that that been quite
clear over the last four months that
when we talk about structural deficit
part of structural deficit is the fact
that we've had rap pegs in the past that
don't meet the needs of the community
or the need of the of the council you
know when you've got years where the
you know the award does still go up
and the rate Peg sitting at 2% rather
than 4.5% and that's that's going
backwards and that is equals structural
deficit so councilors I will put the
amendment to you this evening can I
just check with those online is there
support for the amendment to remove the
the line around
wages yep so I've got councilor Kristen
who supports that councilor Watson
are you supportive of the
Amendment yeah we're voting now on the
amendment
yeah is is this the amendment move by
councel Wells or councilor cley no this
is the minor amendment that I've put
that removes the the the
instruction to staff to not to use
to sorry to take out the words
consider maintaining the budget
allocation of wages for the 2324 budget
level
so that's a minor Amendment to the words
of council
Wells I I'll support the amendment Madam
M thank you so I've got councilor Watson
supporting the amendment councilor
Christen supporting the amendment
councilor L voting against councilor
kitner are you voting for or against the
minor Amendment not the substantive
Amendment May I'd like to be register a
no vote please thank you thank you so
got councel kitner voting
no okay has everyone in the room cast
their vote I believe so yep so that vote
is tied and I'm going to use the casting
vote to put that in the affirmative
and to have that sentence removed from
that motion and then go back to the
substantive debate now so in the
substantive debate did we have any
further discussion on Council wells's
Amendment this
evening no okay so councilor Wells the
right of reply for the substantive
motion
please thank you Madame mayor and thank
councilors for
the consideration they've given the
amended recommendation and progressing
it to to become a working docent to
guide staff in the construction of the
draft budget unlike councel Christen
I don't believe that the process that
we're engaging on over the next few
years is kicking the pble down the road
I don't believe in the necessity as
he does to some 44% additional rates on
people over a threeyear period because
rate beging has caused structural
problems for the council councils
across the state need to learn to live
within their budget and I've seriously
been
trying to assist Council in doing
that by bringing as many leers as
possible at our disposal into play
asset disposal asset disposals I thought
I made quite clear in my amendments in
fact I know I did proceed forth with to
dispose assets determined by Council be
service the
requirements or having no strategic
Purpose with the proceeds of sales being
dedicated in priority dedicated Priority
One to debt reduction to maintenance and
accept for owners to cash amount
Priority One debt
reduction the sale of an asset when
applied to debt reduction is a gift that
keeps on giving if you don't borrow any
more money your debt repayment is lower
every successive years every successive
year so that is not as some have
implied an inappropriate use of
nonstrategic
unwanted and unneeded assets so I thank
the council for accepting that as a u
as a principle I would suggest however
reading with the assistance of Council
of white paragraph I that it may be
prudent to remove point two and that
rationalization from that list because
it could be interpreted as saying we
have an additional need for funding we
can do so by fling off assets and that's
not intended so that's an amendment to
both the
original parameters put to council
which I simply carried out into my
amended parameters councilor Wells
you know meeting structure very well you
know that I cannot accept an amendment
during the
but I'm just going to ask the question
do you want to just cut to the Chase and
put this to the boat and then
reintroduce it and remove it yes I think
that's appropriate Madam Miss I'll move
the motion be Qui right great are there
any dissenting voices on the motion as
it stands a substantive
motion there being no dissenting
voices then the motion is carried and I
take a motion to reintroduce the item I
move the I move the motion that the item
be reintroduced
moved by councel Wells seconded by
councilor white is there any dissenting
voices that the motion be
reintroduced there're being none then
that is carried so Council Wells to you
to then make a further Amendment what
move Amendment to the 2024
25 strategic budget docent and
economic guideline parameters the
removal of the words asset
rationalization from from paragraph
I and the second
agrees thank you great now do you want
to finish your WR of reply okay I'll
bring that then to a close and now I'll
seek again councilors support for the
motion are there any dissenting voices
there being no dissenting voices in the
motion is carried thank you councilor
white the next one's with you page 42
the sh Haven River Festival 2023
review yes so I'm happy to move the
recommendation and I just like to
thank the River Festival committee and
staff for the event that we had in this
year in 2023 oh sorry last year in
2023 and I'm happy that in
previous years all of the work hard work
that people have done the volunteers
need to think but this need this
recommendation is the way forward I
think thank you do have a second if
that thank you councilor Kash any
further discussion on the sh Haven River
Festival review Council La there being
none then I'll put the motion any
dissenting voices there being none then
the motion is carried thank you
councilor white the next one is also
with you which is the Australian
livability census the final reports
on page 64 of the business
paper yep again I'd like to move the
record Commendation and I would like to
thank the staff for all of the work that
they have put into this I had quite a
pleasure yesterday afternoon sitting
down and reading the whole report that
has been given to council and it
there's some really telling things in
that report that we need to look at in
the sh Haven and I'm glad that it
came from more people more people
participated than participate in our
normal survey out to community and it
was a whole different
geographical mix of people who
actually made that contribution so I'm
happy to read it and I'm happy that when
we come in to do the community strategic
plans into the future that we will be
able to rely on that dat thank you have
councilor gray the seconder is there any
further discussion on this report
councilors there being none I seek any
dissenting voices there are no
dissenting voices and that motion is
carried unanimously L councilor gray the
next one is with you page
75 and this is on the public amenities
cleaning contract
report thank you Madame mayor this is
a few questions I would like to ask
through you to director McIntyre in at
the beginning I want to flag point that
this report was a resolve questions on
notice and it's such a thorough and
comprehensive report so thank you but my
questions I have three if that's okay at
this time would you consider extending
the
contract thank you director McIntyre
through you madam mayor yes indeed uh
Council staff are currently preparing
what may be a fresh tender in July
of this year and we're currently
working on the ter of reference
associated with
that thank you so if I understand your
question or the way you've answered it
we will perhaps be seeking a new
tender through Madam mayor yes that's
correct whil the original resolution
of the council was to have a 2-year
contract with a possible third-year
extension there is an opportunity for
Council to refresh the tender ensure
that it's current and to take on
board any feedback that we have received
or indeed will receed
in the next few months thank you and
finally in that process in particular in
July is that a time where we could
pinpoint some problem areas such as
around the narrow bu Depo which was
flagged as a real issue when you read
thoroughly that report is that when we
will bring that
up three met me exactly so there will
no doubt be opportunities or areas in
the city that require perhaps more
attention than others facilities in
the area that require more attention
than others and that's the opportunity
as I said earlier to make any new
tend current and ensure that it meets
current
needs thank you because I'm sure
everyone will agree that your
experience of a public toilet really
does set the mark for what you remember
the area as so thank you very much I
think it was a great report and I'm
happy to move it thank you counc gr
thank you councilor white and councilor
white
you're next thank you thank you I
found this a very interesting report to
read and I want to thank the staff
and director McIntyre for actually
producing this report because if you go
back to the original noce oh sorry the
original report we were to get six
monthly reports on it so I really thank
you for what you've what you have done
I looked at all the complaints and
where they were what areas and stuff
they were in and I actually saw a few in
there that I made so as I make it a
make it an issue when I need to go to
the toilet to use one of ours to see
what it's like so I'm I'm really
grateful that it's going to come back to
us later in the year and we can make
some comments because I also went
through the schedule of where they are
being cleaned and what time frames they
being cleaned in and I think that we
can make some changes in that as well
but I just really want to thank I have
the same questions as Council gray I
just want to thank the staff for it it's
been a while since it's come to us
but it's an excellent report thanks
I'll list you as the second councilor
cot
lash be right
come hang on there go thank you yes
I'd just add my voice of support to
those comments was a very Power report
thank you very much my concern and my
My Wish going forward is that we relook
at the issue instead of just doing
another tender and tendering it out I
would like to see us actually look at
whether or not we can provide that
service inhouse if we look at the
structure of our organization I know it
changed some years ago I'm a bit blurry
on the details but but toilet cleaning
was one of those things that were split
between different directorates if we
were to re put toilet cleaning back
together
is it possible that we would be able to
clean the toilets with in-house Crews
cheaper than we can Outsource them and I
note that sorry to to continue on but I
note that in the in the report they
reference their labor their labor force
as having some migrant people in to
do work on visas that I think render
them less of a wages bill or
liability for the contractor than if
they were paying reward wages so I think
we need consider that in the mix as well
so I would be happy for you to talk
about that thank you director
McIntyre through Madame mayor yes
absolutely there is an opportunity to
look at all models on on the table
the the current model is working uh
and with some refinement will work
even better that said whilst Council
staff are in the process of preparing
those tender docents they do take
quite a long time so we're we're moving
on that now however in light of uh
some of the most recent resolutions on
the council including that of the 29th
resed on the 30th of January certainly
Council will be looking for every
opportunity to minimize costs
associated with staing where they exist
so to answer your question in short
put things back on the
table thank you any further discussion
on these F Council
laws there being none I'll put that are
there any disent dissenting voices there
being none then that is carried thank
you okay brings us to the notices of
motion councilor Copley you're next
on page
121 on the bmary line storage
facility thank you councilor white thank
you Madame mayor I brought this
notice of motion up tonight to bring
attention to an ongoing issue that's
been sort of live since about 20 16 and
to acknowledge the Fantastic work that
the Lions Club of Bomer n and indeed a
lot of our volunteers across the city do
but in this particular instance we have
a situation where we've got a a
volunteer organization who are in
desperate need of a location to store
the equipment that they use for their
fundraising activities it's currently
scattered across the city and is being
stored in members private property so
this in itself makes you know the
logistics of getting together to put
on or operate a fundraising activity all
the more difficult when things have to
be sourced from various locations before
you can even start cooking the
snacks so what lies are looking at and I
mean Council in in to their credit had
nominated a couple of potential sites
which were deemed un unsuitable for one
or more reasons but recently we've
had a situation where thade oval which
have been a sporting facility for many
years has now been not not rendered
useful as a sporting area anymore and
it's been turn turned into the very
successful fomo dog bowl but also the
canteen building that is on that side is
now no longer being used and is sitting
completely idle so this facility has
been identified by lions as a perfect
opportunity as a centralized location
for them to store their equipment and
what they're actually looking for is
something very simple they literally
just want to turn it into a garage they
want to leave the toilets there they
don't want to install kitchens or
anything very complex they just want to
do some renovations to repurpose this
site to make it useful for the community
as an asset again and quite frankly I
think it's a fantastic idea and one
that we should be supporting and this is
why I'm asking for this to be brought to
council we have actually been looking at
this for about 18 months now so I think
there something that's turning a
building simply into a garage we've
probably had a good hard think about it
already over 18 months and I would
strongly suggest and hope that the
other councilors see my point of view on
this
because having an asset is already
sitting on our Council books but it's
laying idle let's turn this into
something that's actually going to be
useful for the community give lines
of support that they need to keep doing
the Fantastic work that they do which
benefits all of us in our community and
so many different ways the money they
raise for so many different charitable
organizations is just you can't
measure it it's incredible so I'm hoping
that the rest of my colleagues will
see that this report needs to be brought
up we need to act on it we need to uh
support lines they're actually willing
to go out once they've got approval for
this project and Source Grants
themselves the only financial support
they're actually looking for is for some
waving of some da application fees and
potentially if there's some rubbish that
generated from this renovation to
perhaps get the tip fees waved which I
think personally fantastic deal for
Council and I would love to see the
support for this wonderful organization
to get this project moving and get them
into a centralized location so that they
can keep doing the wonderful work that
they do for our community every day so
I ah hang
on I think councilor gray is next
but I just can't find my little button
too there we go I'd like to ask
councilor coply a question in relation
to this because I've had the opposite
effect of what the impact is I've had
stakeholders already said that they
haven't been consulted about this so
that's the dog park itself so my
question to you first before I say a
little bit more is have you widely
consulted with the gromm
are thank you Council copy thank you
councilor gra I have been in
consultation with Kylie knight from
Bomer Inc who has been very supportive
of this project and I believe that
she is well placed to speak for her
community the stakeholders of bom
the dog park have also come to me
there's toilets available in this
building that are currently locked and
they would be really welcome to be
opened and I'm sure if if lions were
to take the possession of this uh
facility those toilets would be
available to the community from time to
time rather than being locked up and
locked away from use so this is a report
to bring this up we've looked at it for
18 months I can't understand why
there would be a negative aspect to this
the building is sitting there not being
used and all lions want to do is store
their van and their Barbecues in there
so that they can have access to them to
keep doing the good work that they do it
will not negatively affected dog park in
any way shape or form in fact I would
think it would do the opposite this
could potentially become a fantastic
little fundraising venue bring your
puppies cook a snag and raise some money
I think it's
fantastic I'll go to Cel my hot lash and
then to coun Christen thank you very
much M fley uncharacteristically I
find myself rising to support the motion
put by Council mopley and the reason I
do that is because at at Errol Bay
there is a fire there was an old fire
shed at the Errol Bay Park that was that
is owned by Council and is leased out
now to the Lions pick they keep all
their stuff the barbecue the van and
whatever else in there so it's
something that already happens in our
our
CH city city thanks councilor
Christen
Madame mayor I'd just like to I support
the concept I'd just like to ask the
STA if there are
cost implications to council into the
future because
the you know we haven't got it
it's not clear where where the
whether they'll be ongoing costs to
council due to this I don't understand
that I'd like to make it clear
me this time as we are trying to take an
approach of having a business case for
each item and although this is uh
this is still it's still a financial
item in in in in in handling it so I'd
just like to not stand that from staff
please thank you director
McIntyre through Madame mayor the
cost implications will be part of the
reporting back to the to the council in
time the particular facility has had
some history of being if you like used
being used by people who aren't meant
to be using it and the active use
of it the activation of it may
actually have a beneficial outcome in
as much as it will be passively surve
used time to time and therefore make it
less attractive to people who have f
using it but certainly those
considerations will be had more back to
the council as part of the report
than councilor gray and then
councilor
Darth great my second question was to do
with cost but also this point when we do
get the report back I really do want the
whole of the community because I've had
a text even then from Kylie so no she so
please I implore you to do the proper
work and let's consult wiely please
thank you Council D thank you Madame
mayor I'm behind CL this 100% I've
seen clubs down at alella that have
their own club houses and D them and
C been
maintain them and so on this is a
win-win for the Lions who do so much for
our community all over hopefully we
can consult widely and get you know a
unanimous sort of deal done but a
defin let's do something for the Lions
especially if they're going to be doing
something for us so
yeah and then any so because we know
that there's going to be a report back
any costs or benefits and maybe that
discussion around the cleaning of those
toilets can be held with that great
volunteer group that will come back
and we'll understand that more clearly
in the year in the weeks to come yeah
okay so Council laws are there any
dissenting voices for this actually yes
I did I got the seconder any dissenting
voices sorry councilor cley do you want
a r of
reply very briefly
Madam look taking all of those things
on board but I also thank the support of
of my colleagues and just look to the
fact that this is a building that's
sitting idle on the council books
let's do something positive with it that
helps everybody in the community and I'm
looking forward to the report great
thank you so now that we've completed
all of those parts of that meeting
I'll just put that to the vote if there
any dissenting voices there being no
dissenting voices then that is carried
thank
you okay so councilors where we are at
next is with the shaw Haven C
cancer get this out the Cancer Care
Center and the lobbying and some
advocacy work for increase or future
funding councilor Watson this motion is
with you 10id 124 for those who are
following in the printed version of the
papers thank you councilor Watson uh
thank you Madame mayor there's no
issue with the funding for the linear
accelerators in the building but the uh
there's an issue that's cropped up in
the last 12 months and the funding for
the buiness Specialists has been cut
dramatically and it's taking up to 3
months in some cases for patients to get
an appointment if they can't pay for
private U
consultancy so I think this is pretty
urgent we've got a very very good
facility up there which Council was
heavily involved in and
supporting and now the staff up there
are appealing for our support and help
trying to get the minister to increase
the funding or D at least direct lar
Area Health to increase the recurrent
funding for the specialist stff I
won't go out of any length I wouldn't
expect to be any opposition to
this so I've got Council Watson I got
councel Wells as a second happy to
get that letter drafted I'm sure that
the motion will be in the affirmative
and get that to you to review make
sure that you're happy with that so
councilors is there any further
discussion or
otherwise not they
being
what oh
okay councilors have requested to vote
so just wait one moment and we'll
just let our staff reset the
button and councilor Christen and
councilor what's a new voting in the
affirmative
yep yes yeah thank you
okay everybody else can vote for or
against it's just like the it's just
like the conference no know it's keep
going 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 votes out
votes carried unanimously thank you
that's
good
okay so I just needed I think councilor
Watson you're still with us I just
want to check in and just do a little
bit of housekeeping around the final
pieces of our meeting so we've got a
couple of options and that there's two
reports in confidential so we
could go into confidential now and do
those two reports and then come back and
deal with final motion which would give
Council Watson the opportunity to
participate in the confidential session
because I think it'll be difficult for
him to get back in but I just want to
check councel Watson are you going to
leave the meeting now
permanently for the rest of the evening
I wasn't intending to but if you want to
do it the other way around it' be the
easiest I guess okay so would you like
to stay so would you like us to move
into confidential now deal with those
two items come back and then deal with
the final item yes that's an excellent
idea if you don't mind great so can I'll
get councel Watson there I'm going to
move the procedural motion to go into
confidential councilor kotash will
second that I just need to U just go
through the script so just bear with me
so is the CEO aware of any written
representations from the public or the
proposed on the proposed closure of the
meeting or received a request to speak
to any item in the confidential
paper great so we've got U permission
then to go ahead with the confidential
and I'll put the motion to the group
here is there any descent that we go
into confidential there being none then
that is
carried all right welcome back everyone
into the Open Session our live feed
has gone back on we've got some
resolutions from the closed session and
I'll now go to the CEO to read the
closed session results to the Open
Session
thank you may Finley so in regards s to
C 24.4 tenders for service P
Rehabilitation y Road the
recommendation is that Council in
accordance with Section 178 1B of the
regulations Council declin to accept any
tender for full service pavement
Rehabilitation y will change
2215 km to 3.9 km is there are
insufficient funds in the project budget
to cover the contract amount and the
project cost
in accordance with Clause
1783 enter into negotiations with clear
Brothers bombo PTY LTD or any other
contractor as needed or appropriate for
full service pavement Rehabilitation y
Road chainage 2.25 km to 3.9 km for the
following reasons a the sourcing
strategy was public request for tender
which was live for 3 weeks and received
seven tenders so it is unlikely that
inviting fresh tenders would result in
any further submissions being received B
clear Brothers bombo PT LTD have ident
been identified as the highest scoring
tenderer by the tender evaluation team
and see there would appear to be
opportunities to reduce the cost through
reduction of scope and three delegate
the authority to the CEO and director of
city services to execute all docents
on council's behalf in relation to any
contract formed as a result of the above
to enable the work to
commit and the second report being CCL
24.5 acquisition 78 Railway Street
baderi Lot 1 DP 20
3965 the recommendation that Council
acquire by agreement Lot 1 DP 2039
6578 Railway Street baderi delegate
authority to the Chief Executive Officer
or executive manager sha hes and water
to adjust the purchase price if
necessary in accordance with settlement
figures determined by Council solicitor
fund all associate all costs associated
with a purchase from Council sewer fund
and authorizes the chief executive
officer to sign all docentation
required to give effect to this
resolution and fix the common seal of
the Council of the city of sh Haven to
all docent docentation required to
be sealed thank you
man thank you and thank you councel
Copley for facilitating the inclusion
of councilor Watson in the closed
session and I'll now go to you for the
final piece of business this evening
thank you so and Council just for
everyone's sake Council Watson has left
the virtual room Council Wells has left
the physical room and those of us who
remain remain thank you
thank you and better late than never
in the evening I'll second your motion
by the
way so the recent debate that we've all
experienced over the potential rate
Rises that the city was was facing has
significantly highlighted the
financial pressure that our community is
facing and we actually saw if you would
recall a photo of an elderly citizen
sitting in a chair holding a sign up
being very scared that with those
sort of increases she might potentially
lose her home that image has stayed with
me and I have not forgotten it so this
prompted me to investigate what sort of
support we do offer our elderly citizens
and veterans in our community in
hardship or with rates or water rates uh
subsidies and and concessions and so
this found me I found that with what
we're doing at the moment we jointly
fund with the New South Wales state
government a concession rebate for both
Council rates and water rates now we
pick up 45% of this rebate as Council
and the government picks up 55% so we're
doing our fair
share So currently this rebate attracts
$250 for local rates and $87.50 towards
the cost of water rates it's not
automatically allocated but you have to
apply for it so I think also we need to
up our awareness campaign to make sure
people are aware of this this particular
concession or rebate has not risen in
the past 13 years and I just feel
that this is time that the New South
Wales government addressed the
inadequate level of financial support
available to pensioners and Veterans
everything in that time has gone up
milk's gone up bread's gone up rates
have gone up but this concession rebate
has not changed in 13 years so I would
argue that the value of this rebate is
has been considerably eroded in that
time and I'm sure you would agree that
$250 back in
2011 purchase considerably more than
$250 purchases in
2024 so I'm calling on the New South
Wales government to double this rebate
for both water and normal rates and
to fund it from
treasury cost shifting I know we've
talked about it on in many different uh
Avenues and I'm sure this will also
generate some blame shifting but look
I'm really not interested in who's
responsible or who's left it or why
we're at this point the fact is we are
here and I'm interested in the
government of the Day stepping up to
provide an appropriate level of
assistance that acknowledges the
escalation of the cost of living over
that
period we've heard Promises of cost of
living support and I believe here's one
that can be acted on immediate
and it will assist some of the most
vulnerable in our community this can't
be left unattended it's simply the right
thing to do so I sincerely hope my
colleagues feel the same and support my
motion and also I would call out to
the member for Kay who has actually
followed my lead and already for his own
notice of motion to Parliament I believe
and I'm sincerely hoping that the member
for South Coast will also see the value
in this but this I believe as I said is
just the right thing to do so colleagues
I hope you will support me in writing to
the government to to gain support for
this additional help for our pensioners
and V councilor Copley would you
consider an
amendment would you consider tell them
what that might be first sure I I
think that we're going to miss an
opportunity here so we're going to write
a letter we may as well make it two
and we may as well write to to our
federal member and to the Commonwealth
Treasurer to consider Commonwealth
assistance via center link for
recipients who are also struggling to
pay rates because there'd be people
that you know the Commonwealth's got an
even bigger purse and if they could look
at doing some sort of program through
the Commonwealth I think that that would
be useful as well and it's also kind of
like a little back door way to get more
federal assistance into the hands of
people since they're not going to put it
into the hands of the councilors would
you accept that Madame mayor I'm happy
to see that if you'd like to write it up
my main concern here is this is a
particular concession rebate that is
specific to the council and water R
yeah yeah understood so it'll be pretty
simple part six would be to write also
to the federal member and the federal
Treasurer to consider Commonwealth
assistance via center link for
recipients struggling to pay rates so
it's not CL it's not classifying or
trying to tell them which way if you're
a commonwealth recipient and you need
some help that you can get something
from them yeah today I'm all about
helping the most vulnerable in our
community and as long as the body of
this motion stands I'm more than happy
to read your amend thanks councilor cley
councilor
Darth oh and then councilor
kutash so my question is to Serena
were you aware that as a single mother
or single father a all parents you get a
pension card and so as a single parent
15 years on center link I had a tension
card that actually allowed me to
those entitlements and you are 100%
correct in that it has not risen in so
many years with all the inflation in
every other sector and that rebate has
not risen I'm sure service up well Hasen
their rebate and lots of other things
but I'm again 100% behind you on this
because as a pensioner as a single
mother which our elector or three is
full of single parent families doing
it really tough and they can they could
they could do with anything back in
their pocket from us from the the
federal government and from the state
government and anybody that can provide
it so I'm 100% with you and this is
going to help the oldies and those
single parent families as well so
yeah councilor
cot that thank you may fining yes
this is a lovely motion and it's like it
feels on first glance you look at it you
think this feels really good this is
about giving money to poor people in the
community but is it really about that
what I want to talk about first up is
the men's labor government when they
came into office late last year imagine
the horror when they discovered that
they'd inherited the largest debt ever
in New South Wales it was like 1887
billion worth of debt so we have to
think about that if we're going to be
asking for this we're going to be
increasing that debt further much like
our own my other concern is that just in
hour alone 41% of households rent their
house so 25% of them or nearly 26 rent
privately with the remaining 16% renting
through social housing this will not
benefit those people that rent their
homes it just won't happen the men's
labor government has taken steps to
ensure that the most disadvantaged in
our community are able to access the
support they need and they've introduced
additional cost of living supports for
everyone not just homeowners the low the
energy relief bill has increased at $500
for eligible families pensioners
low-income households veterans carers
and self-funded retirees and it does not
matter if you rent or own your home on
top of that low-income households and
eligible concession card holders will
receive an additional 285 towards their
electricity bills again it does not
matter if you own your own home or if
you rent this is what makes a difference
to everyone in New South Wales another
very important Initiative for many
people in the Sha Haven is the isolated
patients travel scheme which provides
financial assistance from the new southw
government towards your travel and
accommodation cost when you need to
travel long distance for specialized
health treatment that is not available
locally and that's for everyone it's not
income tested it's not only available
able to pensioners or homeowners it's
available to
everyone the medical energy rebate has
also increased to
$350 the medical energy rebate so for
people relying on oxygen CPAP machines
and that sort of thing it's a great help
the life support rebate for that
equipment has also increased to
$1,639 and is for everyone in New South
Wales that requires assistant we need to
be able to help everyone in our
community not just some of the community
so I'm not going to support something
that will increase the debt on our state
and perhaps even our
Council thank you okay any further
discussion
councilors being known I'll come back to
you Council Copley for the right of
reply lovely thank you so much Madame
mayor I didn't think the blame shifting
would take long and I was right look at
the end of the day thanks for the
men's promotional fly that was great
I'm sure they'd be very happy but I've
also talked to a lot of people in the
community
and whilst that list of things sounds
fabulous I I'm very sure that there
would still be many people in this
community that would not have felt the
benefit and still be struggling under
cost of living pressures look this is
about priorities and if you want to talk
about spending from the men's government
I would also just mention $16 million to
to UFC so you know there's priority
that's that's set there and for me
the priority is our local community and
where we can try and assist pensioners
and our veteran Community for a
concession rebate that has remained
unchanged it's not kept up with cost of
living and has been eroded over many
many years it's simply the right thing
to do let's write a letter let's try and
get some support and let's try and get
some help for our community and very
quickly done by a apprach in the in's
government thank you thank you I now put
the motion are any dissenting
voices councilor kotash disent the
balance the balance vote for the motion
is carried and the meeting is now
concluded and now I'm justd to do
this can I have a cup of tea and a ham
cheese and
tomato