councilors who rise this evening to open
this ordinary meeting of Monday the 11th
of March
2024 and in so opening this evening's
meeting I wish to acknowledge country
and in acknowledging country this
evening I want to acknowledge
International Women's Day and the theme
of inspire inclusion and in the theme
inspire inclusion I couldn't think of
anything better than to talk about our
fantastic Aboriginal women in this
community
because they have inspired inclusion for
millennia really where they have brought
their young people up to understand
their stories to continue their dreaming
and to pass those stories from one
generation to the next and I know that
in this crowd tonight there are some of
our fabulous Aboriginal women our elders
who are here and I pay homage to you and
the work that you have done to keep our
community in a beautiful shape to
pass on to the next
generation last week I
managed to get down to Ulladulla where the
Ulladulla lands Council had organized a
meeting around the the land rights
issues and how that could be progressed
in this country and sitting all around
that table were powerful Aboriginal
women and I pay homage to them as well I
acknowledge also then that land this
land is was and will always be
Aboriginal land can we please tell take
a moment of silence for
reflection
thank you
[Music]
so councilors this evening we have
two leaves of absence from councelor
D'ath and councelor Watson are there any
applications for a leave of absence
thank you councelor Ell thanks Madam
Mayor I hope this is working I just
like to apply for a leave of absence for
the meeting our next meeting being the
25th of the March thank you
possibly way thank
you any further leaves of absence
required no thank
you can I have someone confirm the
minutes please thank you councelor White
seconded by councelor Gray are there any
discending voices with the acceptance of
the
minutes they're being none then the
minutes are carried are there any
declarations of interest councilors
councilor Copley and then councelor Ell
thank you Madame mayor yes I have three
declarations of interest I'd like to
acknowledge this evening all three
are people that are here to make
deputations two of these people in
John Lamont I'm known I
have known in a business capacity and
it's a less than significant non pecuniary
interest struggle with that word and
I'll be staying in the room for that
vote and the other two ?? Gemma
tribe who share a political affiliation
with me and I have known them it's also
a less than significant less than small
pecuniary interest and I will also be
staying in the room for both of us thank
you lovely thank you councelor
Ell thanks Madam Mayor I will make the same
declarations Council Copley regarding
those matters um so being the Mr Lamont is
known to me personally uh and also
regarding ?/ tribe who giving
deputations on that is on the agenda
which are lesson non pecuniary
declarations and I'll remain in the room
to vote on those matters but I do have a
under the confidential report being
CCL
24.6 the industrial land of repurchase I
do have a significant pecuniary conflict of
interest that matter related to the
firm that I'm employed with I'm
providing some legal services
regarding that matter and so I will
not be in the room for the deputation or
the vote on that matter okay thank
you any further conflicts of interest
Council laws
none if any arise during the meeting
then we'll deal with those then are
there any presentations or petitions
this
evening no petitions thank you which
will bring us to the Mayoral minute and
this is seconded by Council Norris
councilors it seems that the condolence
motion is the motion that is most
frequently in our papers and that is
a sad day for us to reflect and today's
reflection is for Mrs Shelley Grant Shelley
Grant was a much loved teacher and
friend to many within the school
community and beyond here in Shoalhaven
she served at St John's and at
Vincentia High she was one of
those teachers that was many had much
love from the young people whose
lives that she impacted upon and many
of those young people today would say
that their success was because that Miss
Grant was the one who inspired them to
continue to come to school and to
continue to follow their dreams so to
her husband Rob and to their children we
wish them all the best in their grief
journey and missing Shelley is one of
those big things for this community
council Norris did you want to add some
commentary to
that thank you Mayor yes I do
thank you for this condolence motion coming
forward today shell was one of those
teachers who always inspired no matter
what subject it was what area of
topic of conversation it was shell
always had the right words at the right
time and when I attended her funeral at
St Michael's Church there was not a dry
eye nor a spare seat in the house that
was packed such as the testament of
love that Shelley had within the community
so and today it's sent better to here
today because today would have been her
birthday so thank
you any further comments from
counselors it being none I'll put the
condolence motion there's no def
discending voice is and the condolence
motion is carried thank you so
councilors we've got a number of
deputations this evening to the
deputies that are here the number of
deputations that we have I really would
like to request that our deputies stick to
their five minute timing please to
enable us to to move through the
deputations and then move to make the
make the resolutions on the substantive
issues that you are going to be
deputizing on I also have a um a request
to change the order of the deputation so
if you you're following along in your
deputation sheet counselors the first
deputation this evening will be to the
? to 2468 the financial
sustainability monthly report um and I'm
going to call on Gemma Tribe John do you
for per for ease of um managing meeting
time there you are thank you do you want
to come down with Gemma and is Gemma in
the house
great sorry John I can't actually can't
see faces so well up the back there
because there's lights behind you um
which is great for making you look like
angels but not so great for me seeing
your
faces thank you thank
you can I introduce myself first of all
Gemma Tribe president of the Shoalhaven
business chamber and I will be speaking
against the proposed outdoor dining
charges that's in the addendum report uh
cl2 4.68 I'll outline why we're opposed
and some of the challenges around that
and also obviously offer some hopeful
Solutions um the report references the
2013 report on this and at the time I
was sitting in that chair over there and
I remember it well and I remember that
we uh basically ripped it up because it
contained a very complicated formula
about how those charges would be applied
and at the time uh businesses were
really struggling there was the uptake
of online shopping uh at people's
fingertips and uh foot traffic had
noticeably reduced in the CBD so uh we
felt to reinvigorate it uh that that
charge needed to be removed and allow
that to happen fast forward 11 years and
the situation is obviously a lot worse
it's quite critical in fact uh it's not
just online shopping there's been a
number of other challenges since around
obviously bushfires flood Co Workforce
shortages and now of course the cost of
living crisis and the cost of living
crisis is twofold it affects consumer's
ability to spend in the CBD but it also
directly impacts the businesses so raw
materials the cost of those has been
skyrocketing uh petrol which affects
every step of the supply chain and of
course electricity prices which I'll
touch on uh in a moment as well one uh
Cafe owner I spoke to said it's just too
hard to make a buck and all but one that
I spoke to are actually for sale which I
think tells that story that it is really
challenging and this particular bloke uh
he and his wife are slugging it out for
70 hours a week so that everybody else
gets paid uh except them he said if you
actually charge what it cost for a
coffee and a sandwich the market
wouldn't bear it and
uh just people wouldn't wear it and uh
and so unfortunately they're not the
margins are just so slim uh another told
me that his electricity bill has gone up
by $1,000 a quarter and that's a lot of
extra pies he's got to sell just to keep
the lights on uh he did cheekily say if
the foot paths were even then maybe he
would consider paying for a table to be
caught on them uh but it did remind me
of the significant investment that we've
made in foot paths over the years and
again during my term uh the CBD Master
planning we did some strategic
development particularly around Berry
Street the widening of Street Scapes to
encourage tables and chairs on there
particularly in that entertainment
Precinct around the cinema and I don't
think that we've seen uh the uptake of
that as we like to and I think that this
would further hampen
that so I promised uh some suggested
Solutions firstly uh I think Revenue
raising on this would be outrageous
given the challenges that I've outlined
in this current climate uh it'd be like
pouring a bucket of cold water on a a
barely alive smoldering fire uh but of
all of the cafe owners I spoke to all
have public liability insurance that
they believe covers them for this so I
note that if there is a cost recovery
component around council's uh potential
liability uh on the foot path where the
tables are that perhaps in the d da
application process because we're
obviously not just um we're not arguing
about the da application process that
obviously needs to happen and there's a
fee involved in that and perhaps in that
process it could be asked of the owner
do you have sufficient insurance and
that could be cited uh if not uh and
there is a gap which I again struggle to
see that there is but if there is uh
perhaps the CBD revitalization committee
could uh open up their wallet let the
moths fly out and uh and make a
contribution that would significantly uh
reinit reinvigorate the
CBD uh and also uh John will speak in
his in a slightly different capacity he
is part of the business chamber but
obviously chairs seaga as well and has
some different uh feedback to provide uh
but also John was instrumental in the
Shell Haven business chamber submission
to council over the proposed rate rise
where we did offer some suggestions in
terms of cost savings uh around reducing
Staffing to 2015 levels deferring
non-urgent projects apart from roads of
course and uh and the list goes on which
John will touch on but uh in the
interest of keeping it short and sweet
thank you well done right
on thank you John thanks Madam mayor uh
so my name is John Lamont I'm the
managing director of naam uh but I'm
here today to represent uh the community
members of seagra because Council ORS
here also members of the Seager
committee which is actually council's
economic growth and advocacy group from
the community back to council so a
couple of things uh and I've sought uh
consultation with the other community
members who who are all aware of this
paper for your record uh first of all
the structure of the report uh we object
to the structure of the report we think
it's poorly worded and poorly put
together uh particularly putting Capital
works and that major part of capital
Works which are funded and some are
non-funded into the same area as Revenue
raising in the in the way of the outdoor
seating and also particularly with the
community issues with the community
funding so to lump them all into one
paper and have them all voted in as one
one unit uh I don't think gives any of
the points uh of discussion Justice uh
for you council is to consider so in
reduction to outdoor fees first uh
seagra community members uh disagree
with with the bringing into because
tourism is a large part of the seagra
committee obviously it will reduce the
vibrancy of our towns and Villages
reducing public participation outdoor
and Open Spaces across the city the
availability of open and outdoor cities
now really makes our towns and Villages
a really good place to visit and tourism
is a really important component of of
the whole program with Council so we see
the introduction of fees will obviously
reduce tourm activities across the the
cities as Cafe numbers and seats will
clearly decrease uh an increase in R
tape the council first of all how are
you going to enforce it and how you're
going to make it not actually cost you
an increase in burden in compliance for
small business so they're going to now
have to do some sort of report to
council it'll reduce economic growth and
reduce job losses or increase job losses
I should say reduce jobs particularly
for our young people if there's less
tables to serve and there's less placees
to serve then there Less jobs for people
in the
community uh the increased costs are
basically a burden on on the business
community so for Council to look at
gaining $40,000 over 75 businesses
across the Sha Haven it just doesn't
seem right
so for that amount of money obviously
we'd like you to uh consider not voting
for that and how you do that in the
structure of the paper is a is another
structure uh the community donations
program that was a real eyeopener when
we saw that uh the fact that Council in
this paper wishes to remove the $200,000
that they give to over 50 businesses
sorry not businesses Community
associations many of who are volunteer
Community Association who provide clear
economic benefit and a much better cost
benefit ratio than if Council took on
some of these events in their own right
they create Community spirit across the
region and the cost of actually running
these events and what they bring to the
community is very very important right
Community participation and enjoyment
right across the region with all of the
different events is very very important
to the sustainability and to the
capacity and the mental health capacity
of the community the community looks
forward to these events and is actively
participating in them throughout the
region these activities also build which
is what Seer is about economic and
tourism capacity across the city these
are very important features of the
events that are run by the community so
again for the total amount of community
donations of $200,000 and was repeated
in council's own paper that between 211
one year and only 200,000 last year
allocated across those 50 Community
applications again that's a big hit on
the general community that see
helps represent to you to the counselors
John can you just pause for a moment
because You' actually exceeded time okay
thank you councelor Wells and councelor
White Moving second and extension is
there any um descent in that
councilors there's no descent and that
Lees you leaves you now three minutes
sure I'll be quick did you put my five
minutes into Jim's no I did not okay
just checking I didn't realize okay how
are they funded as Gemma pointed out
there's there was a whole bunch of
suggestions from the business chamber so
they ranged from anything from actually
Outsourcing the aquatics division which
has an $18 million hole in the budget
Outsourcing to professional people the
shaven entertainment center and
obviously on the capital expenditure big
Capital items such as the uh sanctury
Point Library so we had a quick look at
that in regards to time again lumping
all of these into one document items a
to H seems very unfair in a lot of those
Community groups
it's clear that the sanctuary Point
Library having looked at the r Library
which was built for $7 million 2 years
ago if that budget was set to $10
million that would be an achievable uh
outcome for the community and that's
achievable with the same architect that
did the uh worlder library and the
sanctury point
Library um the Barry showr animal
Nursery fully funded yet tonight you to
vote on cancelling that project so that
$500,000 project says it's fully funded
in the papers so why are you
disadvantaging that community and with
the uh park at Berry the bangari park
stages 5 to7 very ambitious but
realistically if they took that $20
million budget down to a $15 million
budget there's another Community project
that could get up and Could Happen a lot
of the others aren't funded I appreciate
that Andor are only partially funded so
that's why SE would like to see those
things voted on as independent items or
on what is funded isn't funded and
certainly putting the Community Options
separately so that's it stay there check
in councelors are there any questions to
John Lamont this
evening councelor
L thanks mam there and thank you to John
and to JMA for your presentation this
evening um John I think you sort of
referenced it in passing with some of
the work of Sega but um could you
possibly just um elaborate on some of
the initiatives of the business chamber
um and uh even some some of the other
organizations you're involved in where
um what is being suggested tonight kind
of runs counter intuative to that in
terms of promoting the region and
promoting tourism and
investment so what we suggested as far
as cost Savings in the original oh just
some of the other initiatives of the
business chamber around trying to um
increase spending and uh you know
visitors to the area and how well yeah
tourism and you know Seager is a big
part of the tourism there's a lot of
Tourism operators in the seagra
committee and obviously it's it's big
Council have invested a lot of money in
the tourism budget over last 10 years
and the visitation numbers are fantastic
uh and well done to that to that group
within Council but obviously as cost of
living gets harder opportunities for
people to visit and if we start shutting
down and removing that you look at that
strip at huskerson you remove those 50
100 seats the vibrancy in that Main
Street that the tourism's bring and the
dollar spend that they bring is
fantastic so we need that in our
community so as a business chamber and
as seagra we need to see tourism dollars
come in obviously as they buy you know
their their Cafe meals whatever that is
around the outdoor dining all of the
local suppliers you know are obviously
feeding into that economy so and
particularly in wages you know
waitresses Cooks so on and so on so it's
it's one big circle and I see that the
council has invested a lot of money over
the last 10 years in tourism so now
you're going to just pull it out by
putting it and burying it in a paper
that only came out on Thursday afternoon
so there's been no public consultation
about the community grants there's been
no public consultation about the outdoor
seating and in fact the paper clearly
says from the staff what bits of
consultation have have are very negative
about removing the outdoor seating I
can't wait till the 50 Community groups
receive the email to say all funding's
been pulled from them some of them as
little as
$5,000 there's a lot of business
education in those Community grants and
there's a lot of business networking and
that all leads to the economic growth of
the city so it's a holistic approach to
to everything and when part of the
original report was about staff number
reductions half a staff member reduction
recoups the cost of the outdoor seating
to staff people you don't have to take
that money off the community so that's
all we're talking about as you commit to
reducing staff numbers by up to 10%
across the board that's how small a part
of the budget it is so you're really
looking at the lwh hanging fruit and
then lumped it in with the big stuff in
one business paper so I don't see that
as a as a very uh Equitable performance
by the
council thank you councelor
[Applause]
gray thanks John and also Gemma for your
um deputation I'd like a question around
our neighboring councils such as cayama
Wii caribbe and urala all charge outdoor
dining fees so can you help me
understand why we smack bang in the
middle shouldn't do
that help me understand yeah I think
you've got to look at the investment
that Council has said to put into the
tourism program to keep people here and
to keep that vibrancy in the city I
appreciate and it's clearly outlined in
the paper the other the councils that
are doing that their long-term economic
impact may or may not be me meable but
the fact is it'll be measurable
particularly in the Nar CBD uh there's a
lot of issues there around rents and and
rent recovery and cost
recovery uh yeah what Gemma said there's
another Baker's put himself up for sale
you know there's there's a lot of the
other cost of living costs why do you
need to add to a small business
cost over
$40,000 so 75 businesses you recoup
$40,000 So Others May maybe you could
actually use it as an attraction piece
to say we don't charge outdoor dining
fees why don't you bring a one of your
cafes from kimer and put it in the sh
Haven and we'll let you have 10 seats on
the foot path if you can find a suitable
space so maybe that could be actually be
a positive advertising opportunity for
you rather than saying they do so we
should so they may but we don't have to
and that's your decision to make no
thank
you I've got a question John but it's
not for you it's actually for director
McIntyre and director McIntyre happens
to be I think the in-house expert on the
warilla library would that be true um
because I just need to get on public
record for you the actual amounts and
the dates on that because this has been
popularly floated around the place that
was built two years ago for $7 million
and if we duplicated that here in the
Shell Haven wouldn't we be awesome um so
I'd like to go to director McIntyre just
to um clear up the reality of the
warilla proposition thank you yeah
through you Madame May the rural Library
uh which was built by sh Harver city
council was um largely constructed in
2018 but opened in 2019 and it was built
for a value of around $6 million at that
time thank
you that's a bit different yeah okay
yeah I can accept that preo pre-co yeah
pre but I still it' be great to see The
Architects come back with a similar
proposal where that facility is yeah not
the only one who been years ago yeah
councel
white I've just got a quick question for
you so you um said a lot about the how
the business paper has been presented um
and that we only had it available um on
Thursday afternoon which is correct
didn't go out to community consultation
um a lot of the time this is the first
time that um the community is um looking
at it and I can see the audience today
probably why um so what would you do
differently because we're trying to get
all of these changes with the financial
positions into transparency out to the
community so how would you do it
differently um I have already suggested
to the mayor that we uh take each one of
these items in the business paper
there's three um that we deal with them
separately because how it stands now I
couldn't vote for it I'd have to vote
so what would you do differently um in
how we are getting information out to
Residents out to businesses out to
community Etc yep certainly thank you I
would have four sections as I said I'd
have Capital Works partially funded so
some of them have a big hole I agree
with that some of them might want a
million dollars and they' got zero
funding so logic from a business
perspective is they should be put on
hold uh so that would be items
a b c d could possibly be restructured
as Madame mayor just asked um the
director to clarify around the the
library e again so I'd put I'd have it
three way four parts sorry Capital Works
partially funded Capital Works funded
greater than 90% so it wasn't a cost
burden versus a cost benefit to the
council uh Revenue gain so if there's
other things apart from outdoor seating
that you want to bring to the community
that they would increase the revenue to
C should be a separate area and then
Community issues you you're here to
represent the community so taking
$200,000 out of community events should
be considered separately um because you
all represent all three Wards across the
community so um D and G to me you know
G's totally funded so why would you
remove funding from the ber show society
when they're half a million dollars is
already funded so some of them have have
very clear funding options in them and
and are well articulated the paper in
the table is very well put together by
staff and I think it makes it very clear
what what's clearly funded and where
there's massive gaps and that should be
put on hold until either other funding
comes available certainly I'd recommend
keeping them shovel ready because as we
know um once a federal election comes
along there could be other opportunities
to Lobby the federal government for
funds and so on on these these
particular matters and so if they're
ready and ready to go and we know where
the funding gaps are then you know the
council and The Business bus chamber can
work together as usual to then try and
push those items of for the community
benefit all right further discussion
council is with Mr
Lamont no thank you thank you for
listening to me thank
you so councilors I'm going to take us
back to the beginning now of the
deputations and go to C
2457 the proposed submission for the New
South Wales planning reforms for low and
mid-rise housing and I asked Miss Penny
Davon to come down and address uh the
chamber
today um just so that everyone's aware
then while Penny's coming down um after
this one will be the Heritage listing of
the former huskerson church then we'll
go to the industrial land to repurchase
we'll go to the notice and motion on cat
containment um and then we'll um come
back to the final one sorry yep which is
around the seating at baly point Thank
You Penny thank you thank you for the
opportunity um to speak hopefully very
briefly on this matter and I guess um
I'm assuming that most of you don't have
an issue with what staff are
recommending here but I wanted to take
the opportunity to remind you just in
case you'd forgotten that the community
is very concerned about planning in the
Shell Haven and wants to be part of that
Pro
process so um for the audience what I'm
talking about is a proposal by the state
government
um a draft proposal that's been
presented to six cities which includes
shell Haven city council uh and it's
kind of imposing different height levels
What can be built where and and so on um
I'm representing the huskus will
Community voice but also um borrowing or
taking from the bay uh Basin view forum
and also the bay and Basin Community
Group and I'm also using some of Staff
words because they've said it so well
but basically the proposal by the state
we're concerned that it's not going to
achieve um the goals that they want it
to that is a quick transition to more
available and affordable housing it
doesn't acknowledge the necessary
planning and preparation that needs to
accompany densification so more
apartment living denser housing with um
so there's there's no acknowledgement of
the extra traffic parking increase to
Water and Power needs telecommunications
sewage Green Space Etc it has the
potential to undermine the things that
we value around character cultural
Heritage and environmental Heritage that
are built into our control plans and
importantly we think it undermines the
existing local environment plan and
Community involvement in that planning
process so just explaining those
points the
first The Proposal doesn't actually
guarantee a quick transition to more
available and affordable housing to
borrow from staff
words the work undertaken recently for
Nar City Center strategic roadmap
process has shown that planning controls
are only one of a range of factors
influencing development the reforms do
not appear to so the reforms proposed by
state do not appear to consider the
range of other factors such as land
prices construction costs financing
access to public transport and amenity
that influence development feasibility
and
opportunities on um so might recognize
that's snar and the red areas are R3
which is where apartments are already
allowed so you can see that even though
the zoning allows quite a bit of
densification or apartment
development that building hasn't
occurred just because it's Mar that and
um higher levels are put in it doesn't
mean that those buildings will happen
it's it's not as simple as that but if
these planning changes were applied to
Coastal Villages and towns there's a
potential to unleash unfettered tourist
accommodation development which is of
absolutely no assistance for those that
it's designed to help that is more
permanent
residences the proposed planning reforms
doesn't acknowledge the necessary
planning and preparation that needs to
accompany
densification so I previously just
mentioned if we're going to go to
six-story Apartments which um five or
six stories is proposed as the height
limit then that's a huge increase on
water needed telecommunications needed
it's going to have an impact on
schools um really importantly what will
that do to our Green Space and a amenity
to the impacts of urban the urban heat
island effect and again all pinch from
staff further most communities that
would be affected are not well located
or well serviced with infrastructure to
accommodate such increases in density
without more detailed planning and the
provision of necessary sporting
supporting infrastructure upgrades Etc
when we shift to denser living which
undoubtedly we will need
to the community wants doesn't want to
lose the quality and character of our
urban areas that photo is from
Cambra um where they're uh putting a lot
of effort into making
sure apartment living is not
um ugly living I guess Penny I just need
to get you extension please to someone
move that thank you councel white
seconded by councelor cut lash is there
any dissenting voices it being none and
that's carried thank you thank you
apologies I thought I'd be quick um the
potential to undermine our character and
cultural Heritage uh the bay and Basin
have said in our opinion a blanket R3
and 16 M height control would be an
athema to community
expectations our strategic plan and its
objectives there so there's considerable
concern that these planning reforms will
significantly affect our village
character and the
environmental and environmental
outcomes um we certainly don't want to
lose our
character and lastly
and
importantly with a state imposed changes
to the LEP there's very little
opportunity for the community to be
involved in actually collaborating and
building um an LEP together with Council
So currently the shell Haven council is
planning to undertake a review of our
SLE
24 and it seems illogical that it gets
chipped away and changed in in ad hoc
manner um before we have an opportunity
to undertake a full and wholesome review
that the community can fully engage in
Council staff also point out that the
proposal has the potential to undermine
council's existing planning controls and
powers and that means undermining
community's input into planning controls
so essentially I'm here to endorse the
comments made by staff it's well worth
reading their discussion paper um under
their especially under their comments
and recommendations but to also
emphasize the importance of genuine
opportunity for Community to import into
the LEP and changes to
it thank you Penny stay there please
I'll just check and see if there are any
questions for Penny this
evening n thank you thank you for your
[Applause]
presentation can I now please have um
Shirley Fitzgerald please to speak to us
about the proposed um Heritage listing
of the former huskerson anglen
Church welcome back shley here we go
again the Heritage Association thanks
you for your support and we thank the
council officers for the clarity of the
supporting papers in recommending
listing the former Church property on
the 2014
LEP there's a couple of things in the
paper I think that may be worth
commenting on
firstly the owners wanted economic
impacts to be considered and took the
council to task for not commissioning an
eia an economic impact assessment
Council staff comments on this are
crystal clear on why this is a red
herring
secondly we note that the proposed
listing would not specifically protect
Aboriginal
Heritage the community had difficulty in
understanding this this apparent
exclusion from the extend Heritage
report and but to all of our
shame at the state level indigen
Heritage is still focused on preon
issues covered embarrassingly by the
National Parks and Wildlife
act however I think we here all
understand legislation not with
understanding that we share an entangled
and Rich ongoing history together and I
would like to acknowledge the fact that
there are so many senior Elders in the
audience this evening it's wonderful to
see you all
[Applause]
here anyone with even a partial
understanding of the long history of the
site understands that we all Stand
Together on the significance of the site
in all its epochs stretching way back
beyond anything captured in the New
South Wales Heritage
legislation the summary of the
submissions received uh that you've got
in your papers this evening indicate
that apart from two objections from the
owners no one came out in opposition to
the Heritage listing no
one the report you have before you
relates only to the public um
consultation that occurred during July
and August last year but you've also
received many other submissions because
as we all know this issue has been alive
for a very long time so I just thought
I'd just give give you a few brief um
Aid
Memoirs Peter Freeman's schaw Haven
Heritage study back in the
1990s recommended listing the whole of
this site and I understand that
counselors will have received on
occasions various letters of support
from Peter Freeman he's now a very old
man but he'll be watching this um
meeting probably and I know he continues
to watch what's happening on the
site
2007 um and the the lady on the right is
Morin Webb who's been a stalwart in
supporting this and many other um
Community interests in the shaw Haven
back then in 2007 the site got within a
whisker of being gazetted by the the
state and there's been needless struggle
and opposition to the Cavalier attitude
of the former scha Haven city council
ever since until
now the half the Heritage Association
first offered a petition with about
3,000 signatures to the council in mid
2018 and made Community applications to
the New South Wales Heritage Council
well before the finalization of the
purch of the land by the private owners
in mid
2021 the community has AR has remained
strong for well over five years the har
the huskerson wam CBD CCB the Jeremiah
the Jeremiah the the Jinger local aigal
land Council the wreck Bay Community and
too many other World wishes to
count charie we're nearly out of time so
I'm just going to say an extension thank
you councel Christen seconded by councel
kotash Sting voices there being none and
that is carried thank you the owners
knowingly bought a graveyard on land
zoned for religious purposes and this
looks very much like a case of fire
beware the cost of things which is the
concern of the owners and the value of
things are two very different things and
as we see it this land is
invaluable supporters value different
things some focus on the lovely little
black at church some focus on the old
growth trees many are exercised by the
significance of the graves and the
potential to desecrate them the
significance clearly is in all of it
Heritage isn't some esoteric thing and
although we understand that a listing
won't solve it all and we can't make the
owner into a responsible owner that's
not within our power but Heritage is one
of the ways that we are connected and
committed to community it enriches us
all and believe me there will be a lot
of happy people if and when you vote to
Heritage list this Gem of a site this
evening thank
you Shirley before you leave I'll just
check in are there any questions to
Shirley this
evening there being none thank you for
your
presentation uh the next one is sorry I
was just just hoping to move um thank
you with the support of my councelor
colleagues that we hear from one of the
um indigenous Elders who is here in our
community today one of the traditional
land owners in fact n Willington would
like to come and deputize to us on this
issue so you're moving a procedural
motion that we introduce an additional
deputee y do I have a second for that
thank you councelor gray I'll put that
to the vote is there any dissenting
voices that there's an additional
deputation there being no uh dissenting
voices and I'll invite your deputy
forward thank
you and Uncle null in in uh introducing
you this afternoon he's no stranger to
this building he was a long-term member
of um council's Aboriginal advisory
committee and I welcome you back this
afternoon thank thanks the man
for those uh can just bear with me for
for a little while I Haven been all that
well I've got nothing contagious don't
worry about that but
uh yeah for those those who don't know
me my name's uh nol
Willington and I was raised at orian
Point
Mission with my mother
and my grandmother and
grandfather my Aboriginal ancestoral
history comes from the carpenter
family my poor mom was was Jean
Carpenter
Wellington her
[Music]
parents was a
mini Timur
Carpenter and my
grandfather his name was kumy David
[Music]
Carpenter and just on saying that I uh I
just would like to acknowledge the
traditional owners the j w w and people
and I give my respects to my elders past
present and into the
future now
um when I when I first heard about this
what was it
2018 I uh I spoke to me family and
that
and we never thought that that much
would eventuate from
it and
now like in the beginning we actually
thought that the
church wasn't already Heritage
listed but uh but apparently
[Music]
not but
[Music]
uh that vik and B and block out there in
that area in that
site my grandfather's
mother is Buried buried
there
growing
up in the Shell
[Music]
Haven I
uh I done everything I was supposed to
[Music]
do and
uh I got married bought a
house went to school and all that sort
of stuff
going through
school I wasn't all that well educated
all that
much but I can tell
you that I've got a good
understanding will I believe I have in
knowing for what's right from
[Music]
wrong now
if I walk up to someone and I punch them
in the
mouth and it's it's the same as with
truth telling if I see someone drop a
Ane and I say you dropped the
anky and he says well no I didn't but I
seen it with my own eyes truth
telling
as I was saying I've got a good
understanding for
what's right from
wrong
and for what all this is
[Music]
about be be
[Music]
honest and
uh
and realize
that that's let's let's face it
it's it's more about about the
money more than anything it's like like
most things in In Our
Lifetime and even that within it within
its own
right you know
like when it's enough
enough on
[Music]
L
yeah but
uh it's not just our our
people that are buried there
either there there's uh there's white
people that are buried there as
well and you can go
back in the early
years
for when
the the Anthropologist and the Explorers
first came over
here and have a look for what uh was
documented and
recorded over all them years within and
around all the way up and down the the
coastline our ancestors occupied that
area
and within that
[Music]
site I'm ask the
[Music]
news to come
together to come together
and and do what's
right
Amanda mentioned earlier
there I was on the the aigal advisory
committee I think about eight eight
years I I
[Music]
think and
uh one day we had a
meeting and Amanda shared
it and I'm not 100% sure what we was
discussing but
uh I remember this
much I think there was a couple of other
counselors that was there at the meeting
as
well I don't mean any disrespect to
anyone and don't take this to
Art but I mentioned
to the people who was at that
meeting the shell Haven
area was the most Prejudice place on the
south coast of New South
Wales and that is no
lie I mentioned the only thing different
from years ago up until
now
every now and then it jumps out at
you but it has improved a terrible
lot we can talk
about
[Music]
reconciliation closing the
Gap The
Voice
or whatever the government comes up
with and we can yarn about all that sort
of stuff until the cows come
[Music]
out it's not going to matter all that
much for what happened to our
[Music]
ancestors but with
this and we're only talking
about it's not a it's not a huge
area but if it wasn't
[Music]
protected would be the only right thing
to
do as far as our people go and I
speak on behalf of all of our original
people up and down the South coast of
New South
Wales and I can
uh mention that
uh from Laz all the way down to the
Victorian
border we
uh our people
associated with each other all the way
up and down the coast was mainly for
work but then
again
one of the early anthropologists his
name was
Matthews I'm not sure all you know this
but
uh there was
a a boreal ground or a
bunion that was
[Music]
recorded and it was just
over 10 or 15 K towards
Berry under underneath a little ill
called moir and
[Music]
ill and this is recall uh documented by
the early Explorer
[Music]
Matthews Uncle
no I have to call time no worries yeah
yeah will you take a question from the
counselors yeah it's okay yeah thank you
counselors do you have any questions to
Uncle n this afternoon
no no thank you so
[Applause]
much counselor L I'm going to go the
next one's going to be the industrial
land repurchase so thank you um Craig
Wilson Adrien stter and Lee Carmichael I
believe you're coming down as a a group
this
afternoon
thanks L thank you mam May um I'm here
tonight um with my friends Craig and
Adrien um we're here to talk about item
CL 2459 which is um industrial land to
rep perches this is a confidential
report so we're unsure what the
recommendations are we we haven't been
able to read that report um we're here
tonight because um council's property
unit has notified my friends here that
they wish to uh buy back uh the property
that uh Craig and Adrian purchased of
council back in
2021 at uh 15 Tom Thum Avenue in South
Nara so as councilors would know um
there are conditions in the contracts of
of sale four industrial sites sold by
this Council that essentially require
landit cells to be developed within a
2-year period uh this is to prevent land
banking so to my knowledge the council
has never bought back a property it has
sold before um if it's true that Council
wants to buy back 15 Tom Thumb Avenue
this would be devastating for Craig and
Adrien who are here with me tonight and
frankly devastating for Nara um as I
mentioned they purchased their site from
the council in 2021 since that time they
have worked tirelessly to obtain
approval to go ahead with their
build uh their project is now shovel
ready and the 2-year buyback period came
up in November of 2023 Just 4 months ago
uh tonight we'll show you what is shovel
ready for the site and plead with you to
reject any recommendation that Council
by back 15 Tom Thumb
Avenue so this is the site 15 Tom Thumb
Avenue it's zone for employment is 1.6
hectares in area it's in the fenders
industrial
estate um The Proposal is to construct
uh 31 self-contained light industrial
units there's also 57 business storage
units proposed six buildings in total uh
and the complex includes a fitness
center and a cafe as additional
amenities the land use break
down um what you can see there on the
screen which has conveniently flipped
itself sideways and back to
front it's um 31 light industrial units
that's what's colored in red on the
screen there just to give you an idea of
the land use breakdown so there's over
8,000 square m of floor space proposed
for um Light
Industry there's the stuff colored in on
blue is is um what we call business
storage units and that equals about
2,800 M of floor space and this is
important because some of the feedback
that we've received along the way about
this proposal is that um if all you
build in is storage units on the
property well that's not very good for
council's uh economic well sorry the sh
Haven's uh economic Prosperity um and
that that that would be a fair statement
if it was true but um over 70% of what
we're looking to build on this site will
be um for
industry
um we've got um some typical designs
again which if you turn your head 90° on
the side you'll see you know what we're
pretty skilled at looking at spatial
Maps these days yeah very good so look
typical industrial units propose 188
square m to 4 99 square
m um within those spaces we're looking
for small scale startup um
tenants um Light Industry high-tech
industry Artisan food and drink
producers for
example um some local businesses already
signed up ready to move into this place
easy way con uh concrete or if cranes
independent steel for example now the
storage areas
um their business storage units they're
not for moms and dads who have too much
stuff and need to you know store their
spare beds and things like that these
are storage units to support local
businesses it may be a builder who needs
to store a bobcat or scaffolding things
of that nature so we just wanted to make
that very clear as
well um this is a big project for Nara
it's over $22 million at last count is
what the total investment in this site
is going to be um to dat and since 2021
um Craig and Adrian have spent at last
count we're up to
$750,000 on professional fees to get
this project shovel ready um surveyors
Engineers Architects Structural
Engineers um if these guys were in the
business of land banking I'd suggest
they're pretty terrible at it you don't
spend
$750,000 on Professional Services not to
build
something um so the 2-year deadline that
Council set to have a site like this
developed I don't think in 2024 it is
reasonable it's something that can't be
readily complied with for a project of
this size even using the New South Wale
uh government FastTrack system for
approvals for Industrial Development
using a private certifier complying
development certificates we still
haven't been able to meet the 2-year
deadline so much work needs to go into a
project like this one last point i' I'd
like to make is that this development
and all of the um industrial units and
storage units that we're proposing um 89
strata lots are proposed so what that
will become is 89 ratable properties for
counil over this
side um this in my opinion is the exact
type of development that needs to be
encouraged by the council more rate
payers more jobs more growth and I think
a project like this should be a model of
what council expects when it sells land
in its industrial areas um please
support Craig and Adrian don't buy their
sideb they' have done all they can to
get this project moving it's shovel
ready now um and it has been for some
time but with this issue of a potential
buyback hanging over their heads um
they've been frankly too worried to
start work and get on site they were
ready to get on site um straight away
after Christmas this year um clearly
Craig and Adrien aren't Land Bank in
they're not just building a
massive storage unit complex this is all
about business a place for small
businesses to start up and uh we'd
really like you to see
um we would really like any suggestion
to buy back 15 Tom Thumb Avenue rejected
because we are so close so close to
getting on site thanks Le there's a
number of counselors now who have
questions councelor
Wells thank you Mr carmichel for your
presentation um could your you and your
proponents uh indicate who and how many
people will be engaged in uh
constructing this facility and when it's
completed how many people are expected
to work on this site I mean if you're
saying you're putting in a cafe as well
you would expect
um people working on the site to use
it I didn't bring these fellas down here
just for their good look so I might get
them to
hi thank you my name's Adrian um in
relation to the the number of people
employed for the original build uh we
expect an average of 40 people on site
per day that'll extend out towards 80
people at the end of the project um the
number of people employed in the complex
once it's completed we would expect to
be somewhere around 150 people over the
course of the um
project
will the people building the building uh
be locally engaged contractors and yes
we we've used quite a lot of um local
contractors um in our last project we
built at huskerson we used um stiff
creete from from um huskinson did all
the concrete works the easy way did all
of the um supply of concrete in this
project there's nearly $6 Million worth
of concrete um s c supplied all of our
road-based materials um um all if cranes
did the structural steel independent uh
steel supplied all the steel work for
the project and they're engaged to do
this one as well and what about the
character of your labor force do you
have any apprentices or trainees or a
diverse spread of uh people engaged on
the job yes we have a diverse uh range
of people um we have a number of two two
apprentices will be on this job there'll
be um probably will be six to seven
laboring jobs that'll be awarded to
local people um additionally once the
Project's complete we do on-site
management of our projects we hold the
management rights over each complex so
there'll be a full management team who
look after the complex and it's used as
an incubator type site where people can
start in a small unit and develop their
business and then move towards a larger
unit without having to leave the complex
thank you thank you thank you councilor
Christen thank you very much thank you
for your deputation I've got a couple of
questions one is when you say it's
shovel ready does that mean you have all
the administrative aspects uh finalized
are you ready uh yes yes we have our uh
CDC to start work thank you my second
question is do you have the finance to
build it yes thank
you councelor Norris thank you gentlemen
for your deputation and thank you for
your conversation that was very helpful
in my research um with the land purchase
in 2021 has there been any extensions or
anything asked for requested or given
along the way uh no we haven't had any
extensions in time we haven't asked for
any extensions in time we did think that
we would be ready to be um underway by
this point but during the period from
when we purchased it to now there's been
a number of changes in the BCA which
meant quite a bit of redesign there's
also been changes in uh fire ratings and
like because of a number of fires around
the world so all those rules changed
which meant part of our buildings had to
be redesigned re-engineered and that's
what sort of threw us a bit behind time
thank you thank you any further
questions councelor gray thank you my
question goes to I heard you mention in
the very opening something about a
fitness center can you perhaps show us
in this map where the fitness center is
and what its floor space ratio is
please
Sor can you identifyed on that sketch
yeah um it's in the center red block on
the back corner it's like a sloped
building uh it's from memory at around
220 M and um the operator aren't locked
in because we've got these issues but as
soon as we get these issues resolved
they're happy to take a lease to move
forward thank you thank
you any further questions
councilors none thank you for being here
today thank you all
[Applause]
three glennis day are you
here and glennis can you come on down
and join us at the Leon please glennis
wishes to speak to se 2466 which is the
notice of motion on cat containment in
the Shell Haven and councelor L has
returned as the sponsor of that um that
notice of motion thank
you thank you
Glen mayor councilors ladies and
gentlemen thank you for the opportunity
to address Council regarding item C
2466 C containment in the sh Haven
Council including huntingdale Park par
estate I also refer you to the new
southwes Local Government website
companions act 1998 which states a cat
is a nuisance if it repeatedly damages
anything outside the property on which
it is ordinarily kept I would like to
tell our story demonstrating what can
happen when rules are not
enforcable my husband and I moved to
Berry in July
21 to be near a medical facilities we
discovered that when it rained the
backyard was flooded so drains were dug
soil removed from existing garden beds
and replaced with quality top soil this
took time money and effort and this is
where the drama began part of the garden
renovation process involved planting out
10 Laura petalum plants at $30 each you
might imagine our surprise when slowly
but surely they all died they eventually
all had to be replaced some three times
cost
$360 next we planted flowers in another
bed no matter how they would tend it
they all died again we were mystified as
to the cause cost approximately
$100 I bought some ceramic objects from
a local store and placed them on the
table on the patio the morning out one
morning I went out to find them all
smashed and muddy cat prints across the
patio across the table disappearing to
the lawn cost
$40 when we moved in the neighbors cats
had wandered into our yard and we
watched the female dig holes to defecate
and the male spray everywhere marking
out his territory we smiled indulgently
after all that's just what cats do isn't
it we then discovered they had four cats
and a dog still unsure while everything
died I took some remaining plants to the
horticulturalist at Bunnings and asked
her advice after close questioning she
asked if we had cats and proceeded to
describe the effects of cat urine on
Plants diagnosis
instant death and destruction from cat
urine still we did nothing we did not
want to be bad
neighbors around this time my husband
was diagnosed with kidney failure he was
admitted to Willen gong hospital had
surgery and is now in life support at
home this was an emotionally draining
experience in an attempt to cope with
the stress and distress I planted some
flower seedlings in one little bed with
flowers supporting bead
NE de feeding birds and
butterflies you may imagine my reaction
when I went out every day to find the
seedlings were dug up and despite being
replanted they all
died some days I did this morning and
evening as I discovered the cats were
coming in twice a day to use our garden
bed as a public
toilet we also installed a bird feeder
suspended from a bracket just below the
gutter feeding King parrots loret
rosellas and a family of gars and
numerous small birds on several
occasions we found the eviscerated
bodies of small animals I think a sugar
glider mangled on the lawn the birds
also had fallen victim on several
occasions to the cats one day I heard
what sounded like a small elephant
Galloping across the roof went outside
to see the neighbor's black cat running
across our roof heading for the bird
feeder finally in desperation I went to
our neighbors and asked them to keep
their cats confined in their own yard my
husband also spoke to them but to no
avail I contacted council's cat Ranger
who informed me that there were no
regulations which can be
enforced the ranger advised us to go to
the pound hire a cat trap put food
inside and wait which we did cost $45
plus food result
negative in desperation I paid a man to
installed chicken wire above the fence
line on that side of our property Across
The Back Fence and across the gate a
work to treat for 2 to 3 weeks then the
cats who have been seen roaming up and
down the road discovered they could
enter the property from The Neighbors on
the other side cost
$500 if there are green counsil is
present then this is an opportunity for
you to show your true colors we need to
preserve the birds and the small animals
that live in the Bushland surrounding
these high dens City
subdivisions councilors you are our
elected
representatives I understand from
previous Council minutes that current
regulations cannot be enforced and thank
you for your
efforts we are begging you to pursue
this matter with a minister to make
penalties apply we have spent upwards of
$1,000 compounding the anxiety and
distress experienced because of my
husband's medical condition the future
of of our environment and for our
ongoing amenity is in your hands you can
pursue this matter to ensure the
regulations come with
penalties thank you thank you
glennis and glennis I can assure you
that greens counselors all over the
state have been tackling this issue
thank you full on for what feels like
decades um Council Lords are there any
questions to glennis this
evening being none thank you very much
for your
presentation okay our final um Deputy
this evening uh Dez Nichols Dez are you
available thank you Dez is here to speak
to us this evening for the proposal to
erect an install seating at the ganet
beach Headland South End Balley Point uh
by the local
community
thanks very much how you doing good how
you doing not too bad good welcome
you're probably going to built the hell
out of me but there you
go no not one bit yeah hi my name is Dez
Nichols I'm a resident of Bley Point
been had a house down there since
1990 spent 40 years as an academic
traveling to and from Bley and then
ended up staying down there as I said
earlier on I'm used to talking in as a
Lector 50 minute slots rather than 5
minutes so um you'll be put to the test
here I'm going to watch the clock I bet
you
will and I do appear as Mr M Nichols up
there too somewhere there you go
um what I'm here to talk about since in
September 2017 I was on the Community
Association in Bley point and we
approached to do something about getting
some seating arrangements on the point
point at the end of ganed beach for
mainly
disabled and partially disabled people
but the general
Community colleague Carrie uh kigan and
myself took that on as members of the
Community
Association developed up some plans for
a viewing
platform um we did a letter drop of
every house in baly point and kiala got
their comments analyzed them worked
through the Community Association over
about 18 months and took a proposal to
the community who voted strongly in
favor of going ahead with the um
proposal The Proposal actually came
along
to um the council and I got to put me
specs on the the
um and the minutes of the meeting in
September
2020 reflect that if for a vote of
12:1 approved a motion to provide in
principle support for the viewing
platform ex engage with and assist the B
Point Community Association to deliver
the project support the association
preparing Grant applications and provide
regular reports to Council on progress
on the project they estimated it would
be around
$100,000 um that motion went through as
I said there was voted 12 in favor one
against the one that voted against it is
no longer a member of the council but
four the current member of
councils also voted for
it with respect to this resolution we
waited Council was to engage and insist
us to deliver the project help getting
submissions and provide regular reports
to Council on projects on on this
project none of those happened I started
to check through minutes since that
meeting and at no time that the staff
report back to Council on any project or
progress the um it lay in limbo for some
time
and then in October last year I must say
there's one small platform down there
built by Council some years ago to 1 .5
M square and some of the locals put down
some
seating to um temporary seating for
people to sit around and Converse and it
worked
well one person um in October last year
carrye decided to approach Council since
the kaiua grass all over the peninsula
was up around
6800 um millimeters high up over our
knees ask Council to come and mow it
they used to mow it but they hadn't been
for some
months well 10 phone calls later nothing
had happened until the day before
Australia Day this year Council appeared
going along doing all the nature strips
we got them to mow off down there and
extended out a bit because the grass was
so
long and it exposed a lot of debris and
Bottles so that afternoon a number of um
the locals went down cleaned up the site
improved with lawn Mar and a whipper
snipper one of the locals then submitted
a complaint to council the trees had
been chopped down and shrubs removed
which was all
lies Council decided to investigate and
sent out a ranger who saw the temperary
seating there on the
Sunday and asked to be removed by the
Wednesday it was
removed and as soon as we removed all
hell broke out on the social media with
respect to Facebook there was protest
there's over 65 comments in a matter of
four or five days on Facebook wanting to
know what happened to the seating and
where was it Dez guess what sorry guess
what what that's five minutes it's all
right you got an extension Council
White's moved you an extension and
that's been seconded by councel Wells
and there's no descent from the elected
Council there was a quick 5 minutes from
very quick well we get the extra I'm
just winding you up a little bit we get
the extra 45 minutes we'll be right
then
um when some letters came to council um
Council the boy and elza Butler came
down Sunday a week or so ago and when we
explained the
situation what emerged was this proposal
that's put to council um this
evening and when I got the um the papers
for Council
I got a bit of a shock actually um with
the notes by the CEO I guess it was the
staff of the CEO and I had a lot of
trouble with
them there's a large section on the open
Coastal management program nothing been
done about putting this project onto
that when we' assumed that it was
approved in in principle in 2020 and it
was in progress and this was a a many
agement um program for the
future it said no submissions were made
relating Well we'd already had in
principle approval for the um
project but when we realized it was so
big we then asked that rather than do
that we like to put some in some seating
in place just some individual seats we
had to look around and up near the local
playground kids playground I had some um
Sandstone blocks and we felt that
placing Sandstone blocks would be there
and that's what we would hope to
do but Council put up an Al alternative
plan to um ensure the liability is
covered of an appropriate environmental
matters environment due diligent
assessment well there's already a um a
small 1.5 M Square platform on the site
and Council irregularly mows that site
so that it must have had an approved um
environmental assessment at some stage
for Council to have done that
um and they said to ensure the no
additional cost of Council on the
broader Community the community
associate enter into an agreement with
Council and we've got to get suitable
public liab they got to have suitable
public liability
insurance well my brief conversation
with the member of Community Association
is the Community Association has um
public liability cover of $20
million and Council itself pays their
premiums each year so that anything
happening there would be
covered and what we've been what we
propose propose is at no cost to council
just with some supervision that we um
proceed to raise some funds which we
believe we can do and um
get council with Council supervision to
purchase some of the um Sandstone blocks
and place them around so that all the
community can get a benefit from it as
well as the
disabled so that we would hope that
Council would be support could support
at no cost to council the installation
of these standstone
blocks with seats be installed around
around the already flat platform there
at the direction working with Council
the appropriate council
person and um keeping the surroundings
cleared by setting up working with
Council a local land Care Group to
maintain into the future the neatness of
the place the Northern end of ganet
beach already has a local land Care
Group they keep it neat tidy well mowed
and it looks excellent that's what we're
having to do down there it'll be at no
cost to council and under their
supervision we we believe we can get the
funding together to do that everyone
will benefit
including the um those that do have
Mobility problems and just want
somewhere to sit when we had a temporary
seating there that we made remove that
become a meeting class right through
summer any one morning be 2030 people
sitting around there chatting now it's
all gone the lot and the local community
commun if you go to the Bley Point kiala
Facebook page look up on the um 19th of
February read the comments and um that'
make anyone sit up and listen thank you
thank you any questions
counselors no look you get off easy
tonight geez that's good is it you good
I can go down to Hungry Jacks now and
have something to that's
it thank you very much thanks a lot
da okay councilor that brings us to the
point in the business paper of uh the
call over got a number of items
obviously that will be attended to Via
um debate but I'm just going to check in
with you for any um other items that
might need to be debated this evening so
CL 2456 the sh Haven city council flag
policy does anyone wish to withdraw that
if not can I have a mover please thanks
councelor Wells seconded by councelor uh
Kristen any dissenting voices there
being none then that policy is carried
unanimously in City Futures CL
2457 yep councel Copley I've heard your
voice first so I'll put you there
councelor christen's on CL
2458 um the Open session of Cl 2459 does
anyone need that because we'll deal with
that in confidential and then CL
24.60 does anyone have anything to say
on that no okay so councel cot Lasher
moves um 59 and 60 and I have a second
in councelor Kristen are there any
dissenting voices there being none then
the following two items are also carried
unanimously CL
2459 industrial land to repurchase the
open report and cl
2460 the proposed voluntary planning
agreement for Nara bioenergy 54 terrera
Road
terrera
um I'd like to withdraw 2461 um does
anyone have any problem with the open
content in
2462 no can I have a mover please thank
you councelor Christen secondly by
counselor Boyd any dissenting voices
there being none then CL 2462 the
exemption to Tender for the kumin AL
longa boardwalk at Warden head all
dollar um is carried
unanimously and the quarterly report for
compliance matters um would someone does
someone want to withdraw that councelor
white the next item needs to be
withdrawn because there's a minor
Amendment uh so those two items will
both be um discussed uh the conference
report councilor white do you wish to um
move your report Thank You mooved by
councelor white seconded by councelor
Norris any dissenting voices there being
none then that is carried unanimously as
well and then we'll debate the notices
of
motion uh can I have someone move the
addendum report please to be introduced
thanks councelor Norris seconded by
councelor white any dissenting voices
that we in introduce the addendum report
we not debate that until it gets onto
the agenda uh there being no dissenting
voices in the addendum report is also
introduced thank you councilors that
takes us then back to the first sorry
the second item in the business paper on
page 11 the proposed submission for the
new southest planning reforms for low
and midrise housing councelor Copley
that is with you thank you thank you
Madame mayor um I've actually got a
question through you possibly to uh
acting director Cory uh McCarthy just
regarding this report I have been
approached by a member of the public uh
this evening uh who was actually
president of Bader Inc a community uh
body uh based in Bader who's a little
concerned about the time that they have
had to to actually read and absorb this
particular report and is asking if it is
at all possible that this is uh delayed
this evening for a couple of days until
some more Community consultation
feedback has been collected so through
you Madame mayor if that's okay if I can
ask councelor Copley can I can I just
also then supplement that for you um
that perhaps what the other question is
uh is their opportunity for the
community members to also make
submissions so yeah thank
you thank you councilor Copley firstly
unfortunately there's not a lot of time
we need to have this submission to the
state government by the 15th as
referenced in the report but what I
would like to do is to draw the
attention and and perhaps the Comfort to
the community that this um submission if
accepted by Council raises significant
concern about the way in which the state
is is making these changes and
specifically it talks about the lack of
clarity around the town center precincts
and recommends the removal of bomit and
Berry it's fairly strongly worded by the
staff and I would hope that that would
cover the concern of the community
consultation do you have any
supplementary questions councelor C no
just was trying to give the community a
little bit of extra time for some
comment thank thank you councelor
Christen are you moving the the
motion sorry I'm happy to move it thank
you councelor white sorry you are next
I'm getting got to get used to red
lights and green lights cuz red light
mean go green lights mean next so it's
kind of counterintuitive sorry councilor
white that's all right um I've also got
some questions for the director um and
I'm hoping that uh we can pass them on
to Mr Clark for um for his um feedback
on this um first of all when we had the
deputation and thank you for the
deputation um we talked about having
input to DCPS and leps um if Mr Clark
would like to comment on um the
community consultation that we'll
undertake when we undertake the land use
planning in the next couple of years the
second question is um and I do know that
there are quite considerable number of
people out there that are concerned with
the submission um and what how it will
affect balader how it will affect other
areas at this stage it's only
submissions to the government would Mr
Clark also um provide some information
as to where this will go to from here so
how will the government deal with the
submissions and what's the likely
outcome if legislation comes into place
will will you have a a chance to comment
on that legislation um how will this
move forward thank you so through the
CEO to Mr Clark is that's and through
the director to Mr Clark to
uh answer some of those questions thank
you so Council white going to your first
question um around the consultation that
Council would ordinarily do in regards
to adjusting its LEP and DCP um
obviously you know we do that you know
qu in a quite a detailed manner um both
in the preparation of the Amendments and
also in the exhibition of the Amendments
so we quite clearly if we had something
like this that Council was proposing
basically we would have done a lot of
ground work before it even got exhibited
uh we would also listen to the community
at the exhibition Point um so I suppose
differently to us the government has
just essentially put this out there the
indication in the material is that the
government is aiming to have this
finalized by the middle of this year um
I understand from um a forum I was in
last week that they've received
approximately 8,000 submissions um I
know that councils generally are not
comfortable with a lot of the reforms
it's the blanket nature of the one size
fits-all approach um in the Forum I was
in the question was asked about when
will the councils get to see the more
detailed work on how this relates to
their centers so which centers uh
potentially will be involved uh you will
note the material talks about for
example a full line Supermarket what's a
full line Supermarket what's public
transport is one bus in and one bus out
a day public transport uh the Assurance
we were given there was that yes
there'll be uh some dialogue with the
councils uh before the the the matter is
finalized um obviously that June uh
there's a fair bit of work to to occur
between now and then the strong point in
the submission that we have made is at
the very least the council or Council
should be should see the legislation
before it's made we shouldn't just
comment on an eia eia raise a whole heap
of concerns and then at some point the
sausage machine drops out a piece of
legislation that becomes law and we've
then got to pick up the the pieces and
try and explain it to the community so
that's the way our submission is is
worded we have a range of concerns we
want more information and at the very
least we expect to see that legislation
in a draft fashion before it becomes
law thank you thank you so Council wat
has moved the motion councel Kristen has
seconded and Council Kristen you're next
to speak thank you um I have two
questions that may lead to amendments um
leading from the deputation one is that
the deputation said that this um
approach May impede genuine Community
input I'd like to get understanding
about whether that would be the case and
that this may result in unfettered
tourist development I'd also like to get
feedback on that if that is a potential
outcome and if so then we may add those
items to the
letter thank you Mr Clark I'll go to you
again thank
you um so essentially um as the the
report report says some of the um the
proposals in the government's paper are
essentially um know uh Council cannot
ref sorry a council can't refuse an
application based on some of the
standards so it wouldn't matter what the
community said we have no ability to to
take that Community feedback on board
and modify and or refuse an application
so to a certain degree the the community
are somewhat put to the side in terms of
the the application process I think
that's quite clearly what this package
is all about it's about basically you
know essentially providing a fast track
approval process for residential
development so that the government can
meet um its her and ACC C targets the
report quite clearly says there's no
guarantee that's going to happen anyway
there's no modeling on which this is
based you know we've asked as a as local
government has asked to see that
modeling on which the legislation is
based how is it actually going to
achieve those targets um in terms of the
unfettered tourism use that is a
potential
possibility unless we see what also then
comes out of the short-term rental
accommodation uh reforms because there's
absolutely no guarantee that that any of
the residential dwellings that may come
out of this reform are then actually
used for permanent residences moving
forward until we see the crossover with
the short-term rental accommodation
changes that may result from the package
that's out there currently as well
you then um an item 10
and concern that concern that this
approach will impede genuine Community
input and uh and item
11 concern that this may that this may
result in unfettered tourism develop
tourist development
tourism tourism development
yep so what we'll do councelor Christen
just to tidy that up we'll make that a
point three um and we'll make additional
points to be included in the
representation um adding concerns about
the genuine Community input and concerns
that about unfettered tourism and uh I
just check in with M McCarthy and Mr
Clark that that's enough direction to
make that nice and clear lovely thank
you um councilor white you're happy to
accept those amendments thank you um
Council
Wells councelor Gray's first and I'll
just go to councelor gray now thank you
thanks and perhaps um through you mayor
to um Gordon Clark as well as I read
this Mana houses multi-dwelling houses
and multi- dwelling Terraces can be in
R2 so does that mean if you own an R2
block with someone next door that
straight away you could have multi
dwellings come next to you with a CDC
and you'd never find out about it to the
to the excavator rolls in this is what
we know we don't want to repeat of
Parker cresant Berry how can we make
this watertight so we can Safeguard our
community about unknown consequences
yeah thank you GL Mr Clark thank you
councilor gray through the chair I think
in simple terms that's the broad concern
um that that as the eia is written at
the moment it's very difficult to get a
g a gug on where this exactly will and
won't apply within the shaw Haven and
that's essentially what the submission
goes to the heart of saying that we need
to see more detail in terms of what's in
and what's out and there needs to be a
level of Engagement with the council
about what's in and what's out so that
we actually don't see it all of a sudden
you know appearing in settlements that
everybody turns around and goes I didn't
expect to see it there uh but by the
letter of that legislation it's
permissible and can be considered thank
you thank you councelor
Wells yeah I just wondered whether
councelor Christen would like to broaden
the amendment that he just posed because
he's limited it to unfed tourism
development but there would be other
developments that are out of character
with the proposed locality so I think it
should be unfettered tourism or similar
developments that are out of character
with the
locality councilor white and councelor
Chris you happy with that further
Amendment yep great thank you councilors
any further discussion on this
one no then I'll put it to the
vote are there any dissenting voices
this
evening they being no dissenting voices
then that is carried unanimously um
councelor Copley just to your earlier
Point um around Community consultation
around this issue um since we do have
quite a few people that are here in the
gallery this evening um if you're
concerned about these um planning issues
that are being put on councils by the
state government um I suggest that you
read the report closely and you could
use that report to make your submission
to the members for South Coast and Cay
depending on your locality thank
you the next one um is with councelor
Christen
24.5 um on page 28 which is the proposed
Heritage listing of uh huskerson church
thank you thank you madam mayor I'm very
happy to move this recommendation that
has uh been a long time coming and um we
know that the community has struggled
long and hard for this outcome and not
just the community of today but as we
heard from right back since uh
1995 so really as um uncle no said
enough is enough and the time has come
the the coming together I thought this
is really important this is a coming
together of indigenous and settler
history and it's a very important that
we mark this and preserve this and any
development on the area is very
sympathetic with that we don't have many
sites where those histories have come
together and continue in that way and
that site is is is preserved in that
sense so I think that it is very
important and and as um we heard back in
way back in 2018 3,000 signatures were
gathered on a petition that um that this
be Heritage
listed
so as um uncle no said eventually
knowing what is right and what is wrong
and we eventually we will come together
and do what is
right and I'm very happy to be in this
Council doing that at this time because
it was one of
the items that has been on the agenda of
this Council for so long and to bring it
to conclusion now I think is good um
give certainty as we move forward to all
parties and as we know it doesn't stop
any development on the site doesn't um
uh uh sterilize the site all it means is
that the that the items have to be
considered and
we hope that any development there will
be very
sympathetic so um I put this to all
counselors and I hope it will be
unanimously supported tonight thank you
thank you council kotash is the seconder
and is going to speak now thank you
thank you mayor Finley um it's an
interesting piece of business this one
that comes before us tonight
2458 it's got everything it's got the
classic developer versus the community
it's got an old church that's steeped in
local history it's got deep deep First
Nations
Heritage it's got environmental issues
and it's got an on again off again on
again off again Heritage listing that
spans decades and there's millions of
dollars at stake an International Church
that needs the money it's got everything
I note Council Watson's absence absence
this evening so I'm going to have a stab
at the obligatory history lesson that he
would give if he were here should you be
watching from your hospital bed
councelor Watson we're wishing you a
speedy recovery back in the day we
should say before Europeans arrived in
Bud the hill on which the church sits
was the highest Vantage in the area as
was common Aboriginal Graves and Elders
were celebrated in these areas and I
think when the British Colonials
settlers or Invaders or whatever they
were called arrived they invariably ask
the locals where you bury your dead like
towns throughout this land the hill was
the place to be interred as an asside in
most Australian towns you will see
churches in the highest point on these
towns and cities so I think in
what probably happened was that the
local Jinger crew indicated the land on
the hill was the place where you bury
people as you would expect when the
missionaries arrived to set up a church
they chose the hill to tend their flock
there are documented Western burials at
the huskerson church ground among them
famous Mariners plague ridden children
as well as Aboriginal Elders are likes
of King bad Billy it's highly likely
that Aboriginal Graves at this site go
back
Millennia there's no dispute about these
facts as evidenced by tonight's
information some time ago the Anglican
Church decided to sell this parcel of
land it was granted to the Anglican
Church way back in the day as was the
custom they've not paid rates for over
100 Years yet they fell on hard times
and needed a cash injection so they sold
their churches in sanctuary point and
huskerson to developers consequently
leaving the flock of say 30 to 50
regulars to have church in the school at
vincentia for the last few years the
land was gifted to the Anglican Church
to tend the spiritual guidance of the
community and they decided to unell that
that land it turns out this is a great
way of transferring wealth from
indigenous peoples across the world to
the church and then on selling it to
developers just like land banking but it
was stolen in the first place the
developer in this case Hawk Street
huskerson proprietry limited a a canra
development company has lodged previous
development applications to build a bar
and accommodation at the site the three
or four-story building Hotel established
opposite the park in huskerson a very
desirable area to develop into a
money-making Venture for the good
investors in Cambra and here is where it
collides local community groups and the
local indigenous population do not want
to disturb these Graves for love nor
money they also want to preserve the
church building and maintain the open
space under the religious ground zoning
currently in place this would allow the
spiritual nature of the site to be
preserved and here is where Council
comes into the picture it is our job to
mediate this dispute between the camber
developers and the local community to
that end Council asked the bureaucracy
to look at the Heritage issues involved
again and there are a lot there's an old
church building designed I'm told by a
famous architect Ser blacket all of this
architect's Works elsewhere in our
country are Heritage listed but
curiously not this one there are Graves
on this hill AB original Graves and
European Graves hardly surprising though
given it is a church
ground as a development company I'd have
been a bit bi or beware purchasing a
church in a small town land stolen from
local indigenous population gifted to a
church then unsold for m in profits
small towns always have Graves at the
church site especially where there was
not another Cemetery still clearly Hawk
Street propriety limited thought they
were on a good
thing this story and the way it has
developed has the underpinnings and
characters of a fine Netflix series
history Community developers conflict
police arrests and indeed violence a
Plucky historian and a researcher the
establishment of a community group a
mystical spiritual place indigenous
history my point is this it is very
likely that this decision will be looked
at very closely indeed for a very long
time to come make sure you vote with
Integrity regardless of previous
alliances and let's provide the shity
that the community of huskerson is
calling for not the develop not the
dollars that the developers from CRA
want so my Council bureaucracy has
recommended we list this as a heritage
site this Council has done exactly this
previously some years ago as we're
already as we've already heard yet
overturn the decision who knows why so
I'll be very interested to see where we
end up with this above all I hope we
will respect the wishes of our
indigenous community at long last I call
on my fellow counselors to support the
staff recommendation thank
you nicely timed councilor klash any
further speakers to the issue this
evening councilor greay very quickly and
um councelor kotash thank you for your
history that you did give us that lesson
I'd also like to thank um Shirley
Fitzgerald and Uncle n for your
deputation it was wonderful this is
actually a litmus test of how much we
respect Heritage as in indigenous
Heritage and postcolonial Heritage and
we know Barry at the moment would love
us to have a full-time Heritage officer
so Barry is no different to huskerson
and I'll be very interested in how we
vote tonight
thank you councelor gray any further
speakers this evening
councilors there being none then I'm
going
to thank you
oh came in automatically um thanks
Madame mayor um I just I know that is
sort of canvas in the report but um
noted that there was some concern about
the um the way in which economic impact
was um considered on the under the um uh
the company's report um extent uh extent
heritage
um and I understand that uh it's not
necessarily a requirement of a planning
proposal for um a more comprehensive
economic uh impact assessment to be
undertaken U but I also would hope that
the staff could address that in the
meeting tonight just in case people have
necessarily read what's in the report
but if the staff can just address that
point and that concern that was raised
by the by the uh land owner so through
the CEO and Ms McCarthy I'm going to go
to U Mr Clark thank
you um through the chair um councelor I
guess page 35 of the the report speaks
for itself um essentially it it puts the
staff position in terms of does this PP
need to consider economic impact and and
I guess the short answer is um the pp
does what it needs to do um and the
economic impact question um you know
whilst it's there is answered uh as
required in the pp I also note that um
the uh the the the the planning
guidelines that on which PPS are guessed
best um essentially are you know not
silent on it but certainly don't
necessarily say that we need to go to
the the the full extent of an
environmental impact assessment so in
short um the staff position is that we
are quite clear say we are comfortable
of the position that council is in we
don't necessarily need to provide an
economic impact assessment to justify
this
PP thank you any supplementary questions
councelor l no I'll go back to councelor
Christen for the right of reply thank
you uh thank you very much Madam mayor
and I thank you John for that uh
wonderful resume
and um I really look forward to this
being um a Heritage listing in the Sha
Haven which is probably a long time
since there's been a Heritage listing in
the Sha Haven and I'm really looking
forward to the vote tonight thank you
thank you
so with that counselors I will put it to
the vote and you can use your device in
front of you and that would be fantastic
thank
you great it's pretty clear that the
result is six for five against and the
motion is carried thank you
[Applause]
so councilors the next item on the
agenda is uh page 47 which is the
progress update for the infrastructure
recovery works for natural disasters um
I pulled this report out to uh make some
commentary on it and to move it and I
seek a
seconder thank you councilor
Norris did I see your hand
move you did not see your hand great
I'll see a second thank you councelor
white so in the progress report that's
here in front of us this evening
councilors what we've been asked to do
is to receive this update on the public
infrastructure works and the
Reconstruction that followed from the
June 2022 sorry the February 22 June 22
September 22 and November 23 severe
natural disasters that um that this city
experienced what I wanted to draw out um
from this was how complex these issues
have been for SCH Haven city council to
work um around um and I want to actually
give my vote of thanks to the staff
within the natural disaster
reconstruction team for the work that
they have been able to do if you look at
the bottom to the bottom of page 48 you
will see that in order to make this work
work um the ndrt have Sor Sor yeah the
ndrt have had to work with not just
council's internal uh units but with the
New South Wales reconstruction Authority
transport for New South Wales New South
Wales Public Works advisory committee
and the New South Wales environment
Protection Agency and the and New South
Wales Fisheries that group of um New
South Wales bureaucracies alone thank
you Uncle n um that group of Bure acies
Alone um they don't work in cohesion um
they generally don't talk to each other
although in this case I believe that
they did um and they did so because the
New South Wales reconstruction Authority
made it happen on behalf of sh Haven
city council so in order to get all of
those groups in the room they're the
people who in at the end of the day sign
off on SCH Haven City council's
applications for Disaster Recovery
funding you'll also note that within the
report that there were uh some fees that
had to be paid by shoven City Council in
order to join the early optin option um
and that opin option was put to this
Council and agreed unanimously to you
know access funding as quickly as
possible so what I also would like to
say to you is that within that within
the report where you see the the number
one thing it says major land slips 31 of
38 have been complete at this point in
time uh last week we got the uh the
great Fortune to go out on site with the
the two local me sorry with all three
local members um to go and have an
update on those particular pieces of
work and it was quite astonishing to see
where those lands slips have landed um
the one that I was
particularly conscious of and grateful
for was the one not only bunkers Hill
Road which has been pretty impressive
and very intense we know that bar is um
still working through and that's been
you know that's now ahead of time
slightly but we don't want to you know
Jinx that by um talking about that in
that too positive a way but the one that
blew my mind the most was in Wala and
why it blew my mind the most was because
when I remember the day that I turned up
at Wala um back just after that land
slip I walked down the hill in the misty
rain and looked at the destruction and
could not believe my eyes I could not
believe my eyes that a road in the shaw
Haven had sunk and collapsed um by over
1 M deep and that the the length of that
was just extraordinary there was some
extraordinary work that was put into the
engineering to try and create some
temporary access because it has been a
difficult time for all residents on all
38 of those land Sops um but in that
particular one they us some engineering
that had not been pioneered before and
and that had it came up with great
results to go there and see that the
final piles were you know getting being
done um in order for that land slip to
be completed was pretty astonishing I
think you'll all also remember the lands
slip on Woodhill Mountain Road uh when
one of our staff members came back to
council and said we were just there we
left and 30 seconds later a boulder the
size of a small car fell on that Road um
and if the timing had been wrong the
outcome could have been not not one that
we want to talk about so to see that
particular land slip as well um have its
soil nails and its shot create put
across the wall as another example of
the of the land slips is just incredible
work um as you see also from the rest of
it you know well over a, like
1347 records of damage that this city
has suffered through and then the work
that has been needed to a get the um get
the right funding from the
Reconstruction Authority and then get
the right people in place to do the work
it is nothing short of astonishing that
we're as a far along that reconstruction
Journey as we are um but also
understanding that there's still you
know in the community's eyes many see
that that work it takes a long time and
they wonder why um and I hope that this
particular report goes some of the way
to explaining some of the wise but to
also give our staff members a pat on the
on the back particularly to
heish yeah thanks councelor L you're
next thanks there and I do fully endorse
your comments about the work of our
staff and also the great work being done
by the contractor um I just wanted to
address uh some points you made about
the um the process and the journey
journey we have to go on as an
organization I think that's something
that um has really frustrated me uh in
terms of how long it takes to get uh
funding approved and of course has
issues with this Council in terms of
cash flow as well so I think you know
going forward we need to see change in
that space from a state and federal
perspective to try to streamline that to
make it easier in the future so that
we're not um going through as many
hurdles and Hoops as we have
particularly with some of these projects
um I just wanted to take the opportunity
and I'm sorry to um put I guess director
McIntyre on the spot about this but um I
just had someone message me this
afternoon about Bar Road um which I know
um has been an ongoing uh dialogue with
Council and the community out there um
but there is some concern about uh some
uh traffic control um which is in place
at the first lands side of Baron gella
um and just some concern about some of
the works which have to be re redone or
reworked in that space and the community
is just concerned that that that
particular slip hasn't quite I mean it's
I think it's been a ticked off as one
that's been completed but I know they're
doing some further Works back in that
space so I don't know if you have any
information which which you can share
with us tonight or take it on notice
potentially um but the communities came
to know what's going on there and I
thought it was a good opportunity in
this report to bring it up yeah director
M thank you it's through you Madame
mayor the worker barer is moving at a
pace um and we've been helped
significantly by the weather but also
and primarily by the I guess the
tenacity of both the council staff and
the contractors that are working on that
project I'd like to take your question
by on notice uh and provide you and all
the other councilors with a full
response
thank you thank you councelor Christen
you're next thank you yes thank you um I
have a question which is the um Council
co- contribution to opt in to the scheme
what what's what is the does anyone know
what the logic is of the state charging
Council that money and is that money
refunded to council at some point nope
director
McIntyre
the uh opin is essentially an insurance
premium um the council pays into to
ensure that it can claim successfully
against um the um State government's uh
grant program uh and the program that in
administers I should say so effectively
it's a uh amount of money that we uh
spend uh to to enable us to make uh
subsequent claims upon the grant program
so for example if you go to page
uh 52 um at the bottom half of it you'll
see that council's total opt-in payments
have been in the vicinity of 2.4 million
uh but uh if you like in response to
that it's been successful so far in in
making a claim of
81.4 million so um it's certainly in
that sense been and it was resolution of
the council to opt in but it's certainly
been a a good return on investment if
you like for the amount of money that
Council has had to contribute um to
answer your question uh there is no uh
anticipated uh ability of a council to
uh recoup those costs um but as I said
they are well as you can see rather they
are a relatively small fraction of the
total amount of funds that Council has
been able to successfully flow towards
itself any further questions Council
Kristen um I'd just like to say thank
you for that um but I don't know if
we've written to the state government at
any point it seems um quite hard on uh
this Council to um have to pay those
funds $2.3 million when I'm thinking
about what we're about to debate later
on this evening to try and Claw back
money um it seems a bit harsh thank you
noted councelor
kotash thanks May Finley just very
briefly uh director McIntyre if you
could please pass on my personal thanks
to the crew that organize the team of
organizing I know they've got to go out
and get contracts and all sorts of stuff
so thank them for their work cheers than
you any further discussion councilors
there's no further discussion then I'll
just put the motion any dissenting
voices there being none then that is
carried thank you councelor white your
next quarterly review on compliance
matters page
59 thank you so um I've got a few
comments and then um I've got a question
for staff are you moving the report yep
happy to move the report great in a
second I thank you Council Wells yes so
first of all I want to thank the staff
for the report as always it's very
informative um and we get a true picture
of what is happening with compliance
across the whole of the city under of
all the compliance areas which is really
good um I want to thank for the pictures
because the Picture Tells a thousand
words and I was really surprised to see
all those tires and I wondered if one
person dumped them all or whether there
it's been progressively over time that
those tires have built up um where
they're being dumped um and that brings
me to the illegal dumping I have
concerns that those numbers are rising
um and we need to seriously look at why
we're getting dumping across the city um
the yellow line parking um is an issue
and maybe we can do some advertising
some media releases about what it means
to park on the yellow line I'll give you
an example um high schools have a lot of
yellow lines around them and when this
year's cohort of children came back with
their new licenses all on nice shiny red
pea plates where do you think they
parked on the yellow lines um obviously
they didn't listen or read their book
too carefully um when um they were doing
their tests so I do know a number of
them got booked um for parking on that
yellow line and it is quite a high fee
when you're going to school and you
don't have a job and your parents have
to um wear it so I think if we can do
some education around the yellow line um
it would be good so people understand
they can't park there um but um swimming
pools I can't go past not saying
something about the swimming pools all
right so in the report on
page 64 um we talk about swimming pools
and it actually tells us that there's
been a bit of changes to how Council
does the compliance with swimming pools
now so if you're a motel and you've got
a swimming pool got a public swimming
pool and you need that pool checked um
either every 12 months or 3 years
Council used to send out a letter to the
business owner saying uh your pool's up
for inspection we no longer do that um
and I've had quite a few swimming pools
down in
alala um who have uh in the motels who
have swimming pools and their compliance
ran out in October and because we used
to send a letter to say you got to renew
you got to renew get it inspected pay
the $180 and get it inspected so they've
been out for probably throughout 3 or 4
months um with non-compliant pools
really because they haven't been
inspected um I've um told them all to
get them inspected
ASAP but I think if we're going to stop
a a a procedure of council like writing
out to these people saying to to it's
like your license you get a renewal come
and do it um if we're going to make that
change I think especially for our motels
we need to tell them that we have made a
change so now and I'll go a bit further
on that now you have to come in to go on
to the council website look up the forms
um they can't find the forms on the
website where they have to do swimming
pool compliance so um I just would like
a letter to go out to the motel owners
who have swimming pools we got a list of
them we inspect them all um and say to
them uh we've had a change of policy you
now have to renew your pool and we're
not going to tell you when you got to
keep your own records and you got to
make sure it's done um so how this arose
was a couple of the motels are on the
market for sale and uh they need a
compliant complying certificate in their
contracts um and they can't produce one
so that's holding up the sales of their
moils so if we can just get a letter out
to them and say we're changed can you
please not you have to do it yourself
now thank you thank
you okay so councelor white through you
to director Ray and if needs be we'll go
to Mr pierman thanks thank you through
you Madame May there was a lot in that
counselor um the ties issue um I think
there the we do find that there are a
number of spots around the LGA that are
routine illegal dumping areas um we are
a fairly um significant contributor as a
Comm from a community and a council
perspective to the regional illegal
dumping program in fact I think we find
um SCH Haven is one of the highest areas
for Community reporting for illegal
dumping so the numbers are indeed higher
than you might find for other lgas and
they do continue to increase but that is
not necessarily a reflective figure of
an increase in illegal dumping uh but
more a uh reflective of the ongoing
Community engagement and input that we
have to identify areas of illegal
dumping and instances of illegal dumping
um in terms of the uh yellow line
education um yes that's something that
we can take on board as part of an
education a compliance driven education
program um and in terms of the uh
letters to swimming pool is also
something yes that we can uh we can
undertake as a maale merge out to uh
swim commercial swimming pools that are
publicly accessible that we are aware of
on our register um I do make the point
though counsil is that much like food uh
Food Shops or cooling towers or any
other environmental health related
license that is required the onus is on
the owner and the operator of the pool
to ensure their own compliance um
although I take the point that uh that
there is probably level of unawareness
as to the um the requirements in this
particular
instance did you have any further
supplementary questions councelor what
councelor what your um thing on pools
and hotels um did make me think about um
the great horizontal hotel that we have
across the whole of the Sha Haven which
is
um airbnbs and
homestays and I'm just wondering if you
know because they're they're actually
pools that are open for public use um is
there uh a compliance issue that sits
with those who are short-term rentals
yeah Mr
pman I thank
you I three you madam mayor um that is
right the airbnbs actually under the
legislation do not not required to have
a a compliance
certificate as do the tourist and
visitor
accommodations um multihousing
developments also that have shared
swimming pools also require a
certificate of compliance and those
certificate compliance uh required every
3 years great thank you any further
questions councilors no then I'll put
the motion are there any dissenting V
voices there being none then the motion
is is carried thank you um CL 2464 I'm
going to go directly to director repre
because there's a minor amendment that
needed to be brought into this motion
thank you director Ray thank you through
you Madame mayor um thank you councilors
uh since the the drafting of the the
paper and the letter we have received
some comments from uh councilors uh that
have led to some rewording and a
strengthening of the points raised
within the letter the content of the
report Remains the Same uh this is a
significant issue for local government
across the state uh the amendment is
simply to outline additional wording
that was um put into the letter for
council's consideration uh and an
alternate recommendation there that uh
that outlines word for word that
additional input thank you right thank
you thank you councelor
Kristen yeah thank thank you very much
and um yeah uh thank you staff for
putting this together and it's very
important I just wondered um does St
think it's worth capturing the point
about Michelle Haven and other places
that have high tourist visitation
numbers that that also impacts on the
cost and yet um it's difficult to
recover
costs that would that be useful or is it
somehow already implied that thank you
director Ray through you Madame mayor
it's an incredibly difficult Point um to
integrate particularly from a cost
recovery perspective um counselor so the
the term terms of reference is aiming to
um put to together some sort of a
framework to assess where councils
across New South Wales can gain revenue
Source uh tourism impacts um largely are
a result of certain zonings and ratable
categories um so it would come back
largely to the the ratable category for
which the tourism development um has has
being undertaken one of the key issues I
think that uh that is worth um
interrogating as this Pro program
progresses uh is short-term rental
accommodation uh where zonings are
currently being uh where certain uh
zones are currently being um uh rated as
residential but being used for pseudo or
or full-time tourism purposes that is
certainly one opportunity uh that is
worth raising thank you
so with that director repair you'll just
include that in there or do we need an
amend Amendment for the motion a further
Amendment uh through you Madame May if
Council uh is of the appetite to include
something specific around the ongoing
cost of Tourism development um I'd
recommend under point two an additional
dot point that uh that says um consider
the
financial
impost
impost of
Tourism related
activities on councils assets and
services that are not directly
recoverable
via rates and fees and charges great you
happy with that
Council great are you happy then to move
the motion as it stands yes Y and I
second to councilor gray um any further
discussion councilors
no if there's no further discussions
then I'll just put that are there any
dissenting voices there being none then
that is carried thank
you councelor L cat containment page
95 thank you very much Madame mayor um
and I'm pleased to bring this motion
forward tonight um as we heard from our
deputy and I'm not sure if glennis was
able to stay for the remainder of the
meeting but um you're hearing of a
resident at their witsand in terms of
what they're confronting in their own
property but this is something which is
uh taking place right across the city um
and I acknowledg that there have been
other motions on this issue and I do
want to thank um previous councilors
bringing forward a notice the motion not
too long ago on this very issue and
understand that there was advocacy at
the local government new sou OES
conference on this issue as well around
the companion animals act um but look I
think it is timely given that there is
the review um taking place at the moment
uh and there is commentary in the in the
report about I do think um uh the staff
very much for providing that information
for our benefit and also so that we can
share it with the community in terms of
some of the things happening also
outside of new soft Welles that we've
seen change in the act as well which I
think is noteworthy so uh the motion I
guess more or less has been addressed um
with the report well with the commentary
the note provided by the CEO um but so I
don't know if we necessarily need to
have a briefing uh but I was talking to
council white earlier who has an
amendment to bring forward uh which I
will be supporting as well so I might
just defer now to council white that um
yeah just hope councilors will um use
this as an opportunity um if we can make
some changes to the motion to continue
to Advocate on paal of our community
around this issue which is causing a
huge you know amount of disturbance
right around the city yeah thanks
councilor El I have councelor Christen
and councelor white listed councel
Christen are you happy to defer to
councelor White for her Amendment thank
you yes so after reading this report and
knowing that we have for years on years
written to state government to the
members of parliament Etc asking for
changes to the companion animals act is
where the changes need to be made um
which is the responsibility of the local
government Minister um I read with
interest that they're going to do a c
management inquiry this year in
2024 um so my amendment is that we
accept this report for information um
and the second point the council provide
a submission and
deputation into the cap management
policy at the appropriate time so not
only just make a submission but we
request a deputation um to the inquiry
now we have done deputations before to
inquiries Mr Clark has done quite a few
of them on planning um to um the
parliament so instead of just getting a
submission that they can um look at I
think we need to go and tell them how
how we feel and as you listen to the
deputee tonight there are huge problems
so I'm um I'm hoping that everybody can
support that that we actually get a
voice at the
table thank you councilor
Kristen thank you very much and thank
you very much councelor white um I think
it' be very useful if Council can
catalog the catastrophic effects of
roaming
cats um I believe
in the the the
deputation the the lady suggested that
nuisance cats can be reported and dealt
with under the ACT I'd like more
information on that um with the
possibility that a lot of the public
perhaps don't know about that and um it
could be um advertised to the public and
and whether whether our system or with
the Rangers could actually do anything
if that was the
case thank you Mr pman thanks
thanks sorry um at our animal shelter we
do actually hire uh cat traps uh for
residents who are having or experiencing
problems with nuisance cats uh the first
part of the legislation requires us
obviously to prove Pro that a cat is
becoming a nuisance or is being a
nuisance once that um once we do have
that evidence then there is Provisions
within the legislation that we can issue
what what's called a a cat nuisance
order which requires the owner to to
take certain steps to ensure their pet
no longer causes that that
nuisance uh we do have the ability
should that offense continue to issue a
penalty notice under the legislation as
it's written now we we can only issue
two peny notices and that's it we have
to start the process all again and a cat
nuisance order only remains in force for
six
months yeah thank you councelor
Kristen um just a a supplementary
question um I know that in the act the
government does um Street trapping of
feral cats um is that an option in Melle
Haven for roaming CS thank you Mr
pman
um I I don't believe so I in relation to
trapping a cat that would have to be
undertaken on the private land um
outside of that I am aware that Council
does have uh other trapping um and feral
management but not in relation to
domestic caps thanks I'll go to director
Ray thank you through you Madame mayor
um councilors as as Mr pman alluded to
we we do from a biocurity point of view
uh do undertake feral Animal Control
control however that's largely
undertaken either in conjunction with um
uh National Parks and Wildlife service
local Land Services as a regulatory
Authority or crown lands and it uh is
typically uh limited to larger uh um
environmental areas where there would be
a significant impact from roaming feral
cats uh but not explicitly from domestic
uh cats thank you councilor Kristen any
supplementary questions no okay so we
just want to go back to the the motion
um so councelor white has recommended
that we receive the report for
information and then provide a
submission and a deputation into the cap
management policy at the appropriate
time you happy with that councilor
L A submission and deputation into the C
management inquiry yep yep the new South
Wes inquiry just to be clear
y y
um I think as well oh sorry just um I
think what would be what we'd be doing
is just receiving the motion for
information um but then uh so accept the
motion for information just because you
know in essentially it's already
interest by the staff in the um note but
then a further point to say that we um
receive the uh CEO's note um for
information yep CEO City development um
because that obviously um it's very
important information and uh yeah happy
to accept that than
okay so I've got councel L accepting the
Amendments that have been put by councel
white as the seconder are there any
other discussion points on these Council
laws there being none I'm going to put
the
motion oh sorry y you can have a r of
reply there is to rep to Madam mayor but
um just want to thank um you Council
white and councel Christen for their
contribution I think you know with this
inquiry coming out this year there is an
opportunity for us to be an active
participant in sharing the experience of
residents of our city as well as a
multitude of um information and uh
examples that Council staff will be
aware of so I'm very pleased that we've
included that uh and yeah look there are
a lot of people um like glennis who are
at their wit's hand with this issue uh
it has a huge impact on Native Wildlife
as well and just in closing I just want
to confirm that uh this is in no way
targeting responsible pet owners at all
um I'm certainly not anti- cats and uh
but I think um I do want a dog but I do
uh I do acknowledge that many people do
try to do the right thing and they do
try to even if they're cats outdors so
do keep an IR on them and make sure that
they have um you bells and things like
that on so that they're um you know
appropriate War for warning for Native
Wildlife where possible that doesn't
always work but um yeah plainly we need
to achieve um policy reform in this area
and hopefully this inquir will be the
opportunity to do that thank you I'll
put the resolution now councilors are
there any dissenting voices there being
no dissenting voices that's carried
unanimously thank you councelor Boyd the
next one's with you on page 97 the
notice of motion around the bench
seating B Point okay I'd like to thank
Mr Nichols for his presentation or his
deputation in support of this proposal I
think it was a very enthusiastic
presentation I think he explained it
really carefully exactly what the
residents of Bley Point wanted or
want um I think through this process a
number of concerns have been raised in
relation to the pro the proposal and I
think councilors need to interrogate the
issue more closely
before we can make a decision um there
is on community opposition to the
concept and um this is evident from the
complaints that the were received and
the temporary seating was um
eliminated um so I think there are some
concerns about the um local concerns
about the
seats um I think and Council has as part
of the CEO's note has raised the issue
or the Spectre of public liability
insurance and also suggested that the
CCB needs to hold special public
liability insurance to cover liability
of the seats and the erection of the
seats however I think that residents as
considering our
um financial situation the council's
financial situation I think that
residents as they become more aware of
this the impact of the council's
financial position and that no Community
infrastructure will be forthcoming there
will be more offers from the community
for donation of goods and time to get
things moving to enhance their Community
infrastructure such as the poly Point
people have done to get their
seats further at the last ordinary
meeting we did agree to include
Community Source funding as an economic
parameter for budgeting
management and I believe the offer to
offer to to purchase seating and to
maintain it under Council direction is
an example of community Source funding
we don't but we don't seem to have a way
of dealing with these offers so I'd like
to propose an amendment that this this
matter be referred to council staff for
briefing to explain the issues involved
and within that briefing propose a
process to progress Community manage
projects into the
future and this briefing should be
presented to council as soon as
possible um and through the mayor um
question to the CEO when would be an
appropriate time for this briefing to be
submitted to
council thank you councelor Boyd uh I
think in consultation with the relevant
directors we were aiming for uh a
briefing to be completed by June now I
know that seems a a bit of time but this
is work that is uh on top of current
workload so and to give it the due
regard as you clearly point out um a
number of the issues that would be the
timeline we would
recommend okay that's a little bit that
is a little bit longer than I
anticipated um and I'm sure it's a bit
longer than the Bly Point people
anticipated as well because I think they
wanted an answer tonight but I think
there are going to be lots of people in
our community who do want answers to
this sort of issue of community managed
projects um okay
that's yep that's all I wanted to say
I'll just go to the CEO just to give you
a supplementary response and then I'll
go to the speakers that are on the list
thank you thank you mein Lee uh so the
the June timeline is not um to unduly
delay so if we have information earlier
than that we will absolutely bring it
earlier but it's also about setting an
expectation that we a realistic timeline
that we can achieve the word work
within so listed on my list of speakers
I've got councelor Kristen white and
gray and I did note councelor Wells as
the second so councelor
Christen thank you very much and I'd
just like to speak
to uh this one in
this um offer from the community in
particular but in general I think when
when we have a briefing um it would be
I'd like to see a detail of the costs
that actually do come with such offers I
know the community think it's a no cost
offer um to to the council but even in
this one I know that you know
specifications negotiated with and
provided by Council staff installed
under direction of council so there's a
there's there's actually time staff time
I'd like I'd like in our briefing for
that to be teased out about how much
that costs and you know the the best
will in the world what's what's what's
the reality in terms of
Maintenance um even if the community say
that they're going to maintain it and
I'm sure they they really mean it and
and and will but there will come a point
when there's some things that the
community can't do or whatever and then
it comes back to
council and every item of new um
infrastructure is on our books um I
presume Council will own it even if
they're not maintaining it and at some
point that would have to be replaced
so there is this notion of of no cost to
counsel and I think we need to explain
that a lot better to the community about
that there is really no such thing and
um I like um councilor Boyd's idea of
actually trying to chose out ways in
which coun uh Community can contribute
to council because I know that there's
been other situations where people have
wanted to donate um special items for
disa disabled playground grounds and so
on and it's become extremely difficult
and problematic for Council to to take
on that offer um so I would also like to
see that um explained a little bit more
and lastly I I do have to say we're in a
you know the staff are working flat out
to deal with the financial situation uh
by um by the by the end of June so I
really think putting some seats uh baly
point with the greatest respect um is
not the highest priority and I quite
understand if it takes a bit of time for
us to get to this item thank
you thank you councelor Christen
councelor white you're
next um thank you um I'm happy for this
to go to a council briefing because I
think there's a lot of issues that we
need to talk about here um one of them
being the CMP because communities think
because they've put previous proposals
to council and Council has accepted them
that they're automatically going to
appear in the CMP which is not
necessarily the case at all um in doing
those CMP documents um also it's new to
me um after all this time about asking
um Community groups to actually ensure
these facilities if they're going to
construct them Etc so I think there
needs to be a big discussion of around
the insurance of these facilities also
um a big discussion about environmental
matters um where we're asking that in
the in the co notes we're asking that an
environmental due diligence assessment
be done so I want to know what that is
because normally we do I'm happy for it
to go to the briefing um normally we do
an RF and ahip and it's done again who's
going to be responsible to do those or
are we looking for something a little
bit more than that so I think there are
issues that we need to thrash out at the
briefing um about how we moved these
type of projects before uh forward and
the other thing that I will note in
previous Community projects one comes to
mind is the Molly basketball court at
the back of the Surf Club um when that
was ready to roll Council asked the
community that was building that project
for $40,000 for for project management
so we really have to understand how
these projects are going to run um
because the communities get great ideas
and they bring us um great ideas um and
they say that they'll undertake the work
they'll get the local Tradesmen out
there and they'll help it all happened
but we have to have some parameters
around exactly what the expectation is
um and what we're going to agree to and
what we're not going to agree to and at
the end of the day don't stand on there
and say we're really happy for your
project you got your money you're ready
to go but I need project management um
so we really need to have those
parameters thanks I'm just going to go
to the CEO for a comment for you
councelor
white uh thank you both councelor white
and councelor Christen for raising those
points so what I propose we do from here
is uh as part of the briefing or prior
to Preparing the report for the briefing
that we'll scope out the items to be
covered within that and bring that to
you for you to have a look at and make
sure that uh what we are investigating
and bringing back to you is a
comprehensive in light of what your
expectations are that we can use for
this particular resolution and
potentially others going forward thank
you thanks councelor gray thank you and
in that comprehensive report could we
please add the history I'm led to
believe as of the phone calls I got
today that in 2021 173 residents turned
up and did a vote of which that vote was
4555 so it's not a a resounding success
for this to go ahead we need to look at
both sides of the picture and the
environmental degradation before we go
anywhere on this project thank you thank
you thanks councelor gray um councelor
Boyd I want to thank you for taking on
the all of the constructive points that
have been put your way this evening and
giving us a way forward and I now would
invite you to take the ride of reply
um in community donating equipment to
all
furniture um to outdoor furniture to
um Council and having it erected on
public land on Council land um and
that's through the plaes and memorials
um policy which allows people to donate
and ere staff on public land um orbe it
to to commemorate someone who's died but
the principle is the same people are
donating outdoor furniture or public
furniture and placing it on public land
no mention of public liability insurance
in the in the um memorials and pl plars
and memorials policy so there are
precedence where this is done and I
think this is the same sort of thing
that the baly people are Wyo people are
asking for it's not the same as building
a basketball court that's something
slightly different it's not the same as
rebuilding a BMX track in Basin view but
there are precedents for this happening
but I think we need as Council white has
said we need to put parameters around
them thank you so I'm going to put the
mo the motion is there any dissenting
voices there being no dissenting voices
than that is carried so councilors um
where we are now at in our meeting
agenda
I'm just going to put the following to
you is that we have our financial
sustainability monthly report is our um
piece of business in open that we need
to complete and we also have our
confidential report um I am going to
suggest to you that we take a five
minute adjournment now that we come back
because I am expecting that we'll have
substantial debate on the financial
sustainability monthly report um and as
councelor white has already indicated
through our group discussion the
decision was to split this motion into a
number of Parts um to enable the vote to
occur um so that will that will happen
in the next session and we will probably
um I think the easiest way to do that is
to go into Committee of the hall um so
if you're all favorable to that uh we're
going to take a f minute adjournment um
so that's a quick Comfort stop um grab
your Cups of Tea do what you need to do
and we will be back here um in 5 minutes
to deal with that which makes it who can
do the M 13 minutes past 8 so we'll
rejourn the meeting at that point in
time thank
you sustainability monthly
report so councilors what I'm am now
going to ask you to do um is I would
like someone to move that we move into
the committee of the hall thank you
councelor l and a second of please thank
you councelor Copley is there any
dissent that we move into the committee
of the hall there being none oh that's
that a dissenting hand councelor Norris
um so councelor Norris votes in Descent
of going into Committee of the hall um
the balance vote in favor of and that
motion is carried so councilors uh what
we okay oh sorry councilor Wells did you
vote against going into the committee
okay we'll note you as a voting against
the committee going into the committee
of the
whole so councilors in front of us um is
a a very difficult report there's no
doubt about that um and a a difficult
report that is in response to um the
workshop work that we've been doing in
the background um and workshop work that
we've already indicated to the count to
the community that we were undertaking
uh through the previous resolutions of
council that go back to um November last
last year but more recently the
Contemporary meeting of the 29th and the
30th of
January um part of the process that we
needed to go through is um to look at
many of the issues that are on on the uh
the agenda but I just before uh we go
continue with the discussion around the
committee of the whole there were a
number of items that were uh brought up
during the deputation this evening that
I I feel need um some address before we
continue with the debate
um one of those was around uh about
putting these these these minutes out
into the public agenda and how would
they be reported to the community so so
that is this is clear it is my
understanding that any decision that we
make on the financial sustainability
monthly reports going forward some of
that will be part of and will construct
the May reports that will go out to the
community around the budget some of them
um which are not related to the May
budget reports um will be reported in
other ways so I'm going to ask the CEO
the critical question
around so in this uh agenda this
evening if Council are to defer or pause
projects any project I'm not I'm not
discussing which one at this point if
Council were to pause these project
would that be made clear clear in the uh
in the public papers going out on the
May in for the May budget for the
following
year uh yes we would make that clear
within the May budget papers because
it'll be the construct of the budget to
include projects that are moving forward
great and we so that gives the the
community the opportunity to make
further um comments on those particular
budget papers at that point in time yes
that's correct Y and if the community
donations program were to be resolved to
be either zero or some other sum at this
meeting would that also be advised not
only to the community at large but to
those Community groups that have applied
for um funding in the past yes that's
correct we would notify all applicants
previous applicants or successful
applicants of the decision y um if
Council were to endorse um the
reinstatement of any outdoor um dining
or public foot path annual fees is there
an opportunity for this Council to set a
date for the commencement of any of
those fees and would that also go into
the May papers uh yes that would be the
case great okay so that's that's good
that's really clear that we've got a
pathway forward when it comes to
community consultation around these
items um so that today is not the final
point of consultation with the community
at all um the other thing that was uh
discussed tonight in the in the
deputations were there was a deput sorry
one of the deputes talked about a
submission that had been made to council
around reducing staff levels to the
2015 level of Staffing um can I just
seek some clarification from the CEO
that the current position of council is
that there are to be no ST sta
redundancies uh that's my understanding
from what was uh in the uh resolutions
from 29 30 January great okay so that
that rules that particular um point out
um there was also discussion around so
we're deferring the we'll be looking at
deferring some of those issues this
evening um there was also some
discussion around the Outsourcing of
other business units within Council um
recently Council has actually inhouse or
rehomed some of the um the things that
have been previously
outsourced um Council has previously
outsourced swim Sport and Fitness and
that has not worked um is it the opinion
of the staff at this point in time that
that is not a money-making Venture but
actually a way to cost Council
more uh that can be the case the um I
think fair to say that the items um
identified for service review may have
some opportunity for consideration but
Outsourcing of services in and of itself
does not guarantee that costs will be
reduced and in some cases we do know
that Outsourcing of services does cost
Council more money so proper due
diligence about any service changes
needs to be undertaken as part of a
comprehensive service review program
that the council has asked for the
administration to deliver and that work
is commencing at the moment to identify
a framework and prioritization of
service reviews right so my lights are
all lighting up which is great so I'm
coming to the debate counselors because
what um
we've quasi agreed to do is to split
these this motion um and it will not be
in three points it is going to be in
Four Points um the Four Points will be
the first one we'll discuss are the
projects that will go on pause and
projects that will not go on pause but
continue with some clarification points
and other meetings um so uh I'll be
seeking your endorsement of that and
we'll also then be looking at separating
uh Point 2 and point 3 so counselor
white you're the first um speaker on the
list and I I guess I'm seeking from you
a um a motion that you would like to see
put forward this evening and some debate
on the on the items thank you so I'm not
ready to put a motion forward unless
we're going to put a motion forward that
we defer this report back to the finance
committee for further discussion as
counselors um I'm happy to put that at
this stage um and that we have
clarification further clarification on
all of these um I do have a question to
ask at the beginning
we talked about the May budget and this
will have opportunity to go out on
public exhibition to the community um
and I think they'll be great interest in
our budget when it goes out to the um
Community this year because in previous
years we know we get very limited
submissions but I guarantee that this
budget this year is going to have a lot
of submissions so it goes out on May um
we come back in June um what are we
going to do if the public isn't going to
accept the changes uh for the community
donations I'll just use what's in the
report here the community donations the
outdoor dining and some of these
projects so we'll have um in my capacity
I think about a month to make changes to
it do we have sufficient time to make
time changes to that budget between the
end of the exhibition period in May uh
to when we have to approve it in July um
so councelor white I'm going to ask you
a question before I get the CEO to
answer that um my question to you is
could you please repeat to the
colleagues in the room um what would
Donna rygate comments to you in the um
the Eric committee so I'm not going to
repeat those comments because those
comments are confidential because the
aric committee is confidential so if my
counselors want to listen to what those
comments were because I do sit there as
a representative of the council I'm
prepared to tell them what they said but
I'm not going to do it in an open
session of council because those
comments made by Donna rogate were
confidential comments as were the
comments made by John Gordon on the AR
committee also so I'm not repeating it
here okay that's good because that means
then I'm going to invite um the aric
committee to come to an open session of
council and repeat their comments for
the public that think that will be an
easy way forward on that um um and I'm
hoping that you also asked Mr Gordon to
make the comments that he made at the
meeting in relation to Central Coast
Council and um what has proess proceeded
there absolutely um because councelor
before I go to the CEO to answer your
questions around is there time to do it
um councelor we are in the position that
we are in today because this Council has
responded to the Comm communties um
desire to not have rate Rises and we
have very clearly fleshed out the
consequences of that um but I will go to
the CEO to give you some
timing thanks councilor W and uh I take
your points on timing and this is a very
difficult situation we find ourselves in
in terms of uh the council needing to
make decisions uh understanding the
community will provide feedback But
ultimately the council uh has to then
navigate all of that which is is quite a
difficult challenge so I might just
throw to Katie Buckman to provide a
comment on detailed comment around
timing of the consultation and ability
to take the uh feedback from the
community and for that to be amended
into any final budget
papers thank you councilor Wells thank
you
process um however I do have to
reinforce the comments as well that we
are working within the financial
constraints that we have for next
financial year so the capital budget
just due to the limitations of council
funding will be a lot smaller than it
has been previously so although the
community may be wishing for projects to
be added back in the reality of the
situation will be that we simply will
not have the money to address everything
with the community
wishes okay so councilors what I have on
the floor at the moment is I have
a actually I'm going to confirm that
councelor white you so you are
suggesting that we defer everything in
this paper um to go back to a further
committee understanding that these
decisions will be made at an ordinary
meeting of
council yes okay and that's been
seconded by councelor white sorry
Wells okay great Council
larus thank you colleagues for going to
the committee of the hall I get multiple
steps at this one um so upon I've got a
question first and then I'll go into my
statement later um upon my reading of
the paper on Thursday despite the
resolution made six weeks ago CL
24.2 minute number
2444 for those of you playing at home an
urgent meeting be held with Fiona
Phillips MP Liza Butler MP available
counselors staff to discuss a way the
way forward including the scope and
budget of for the project no such
meeting has occurred no it hasn't the
definition of urgent implies requiring
immediate action or attention the
current 6- week delay in convening this
meeting raises questions about the
adherence to the agreed upon timeline
and the urgency of the matter at hand
could you kindly provide clarification
on the reasons behind this delay and
when we can expect the Urgent meeting to
take place secondly I have noted with
concern that this motion has a direct
negative effect on the centry point
library and the previously resolved
minute as a counselor I'm aware that I'm
not allowed to bring a direct negative
to the floor of council therefore I seek
clarification on how such a motion has
been included in the business paper and
the rationale behind its inclusion given
the importance of these issues and their
implications for decision- making and
governance within our Council I urge a
prompt and prompt attention and
transparent communication please yeah
great thank you councilor Norris I'm
going to go to the CEO for a response
thank you councelor Norris uh and in
relation to so your first point around
the timing of the meeting my
understanding for is that that take a
note on urgency that is being planned at
the moment uh the points on the sanctury
point Library are are such that it does
impact on a previously resolved minute a
new resolution would amend that the
reality of the financial situation and
uh there are a number of questions
around our staff headcount is the
increased operational cost and headcount
associated with that that project should
it go ahead uh is significant and not
something that we have in our forward
forecasts do you want to add anything
Katie thank you sorry um the aec report
was rather clear around the investment
of council's fund into future Community
infrastructure particularly new or um
upgrades to to projects um so we have
been quite diligent in going through
what's in the proposed Capital Works
program and what doesn't meet the
criteria thatc um suggested that we
consider um my concerns with the
continuance of the sanctuary Point
library is that it is going to bring on
no matter what the scale of that project
is it's a new build that's going to requ
by operational costs that are not
included in our current budget and are
not funded by any means um so the
special rate variation uh did include a
2 and a
half% um increase that was for the
operational costs of the library um I
don't think we are working within our
financial means and applying the
principles of sound financial management
if we continue to add to our operational
expense when we've already been tasked
um with the need to strip out $20
million from our operational budget over
the next four
years do you have supplementary
questions I've got a whole state
statement to add to it should I add it
now or should I add it fur no no you're
in Committee of the whole You've got the
right to speak
right so I address you today with a
sense of Duty and responsibility as we
confront the challenges that lie before
us our community like so many others is
at a Crossroads facing economic
uncertainty and tough decisions in such
times it becomes imperative the
community Embrace austerity measures not
as a punitive measure but as a means to
restore fiscal stability and refocus on
the core principles that our community
has called for rates roads rubbish and
water we must prioritize our resources
ensuring that they are dedicated towards
the service that form the backbone of
our community These Are Not Mere
luxuries but vital components of our
infrastruct of our infrastructure and
well-being
it is essential to recognize that count
the council operates as a business
entity not a charitable organization
every expenditure must be scrutinized
and every decision made with prudence
and foresight it is our duty to manage
the finances of our community
responsibly safeguarding its long-term
Prosperity with regards to the community
donations program I I did initially
support freezing it however if find a
middle of the road somewhere I'd
probably be amendable to that after
deliberations with our
community um I find the the
reinstatement of outdoor public dining
footpath fees uh which is currently
waved in our Council may present certain
challenges however it is a crucial step
towards ensuring a more Equitable
allocation of resources particularly if
we observe that other councils including
our neighboring ones have chosen not to
wave this
fee during Co some other councils have
chosen to wave this fee
temporarily however it is important for
business to prepare for the possibility
of this fee being reinstated in the
future while I'm staunchly advocating on
behalf of businesses it is prudent for
businesses to consider this potential
expense after all it is a business
expense that is tax deductible if the
sole charge alone will send a business
to the wall I recommend examining the
business model and also speaking to
one's accountant I'm glad the business
chamber has options and I thank uh J Tri
and John for their presentations tonight
and glad they've got options to talk
about I'm hope my phone is on and I'm
open to hearing those
discussions as we navigate the ongoing
epidemiological concerns associated with
Co is vital to recognize the
significance of outdoor dining in
mitigating its spread while the
discussions around Co may have waned the
risk
persist underscoring the importance of
supporting business businesses that
utilize outdoor dining
spaces so why have we landed here the
community expressed strong opposition to
a 44 or 32% special rate variation while
I explored a moderate rate increase in
collaboration with other counselors and
community members it was evident the
majority of councilors were unwilling to
support it leading to the decision not
to not pursue an SRV we are now faced
with making tough decisions in line with
the community's
wishes therefore we must act as as the
community leaders our constituents
deserve we must make the tough choices
necessary to ensure the financial
soundness of our Council it is our
solemn oath of office that compels us to
prioritize the well-being of our
community above all else in conclusion
let us unite in our commitment to
overcome these challenges let us focus
on what truly matters preserving the
essential services that underpin our
communities Prosperity through
resilience and resolve we will emerge
stronger and more resilient than ever
before so Council noris then I take it
that from that discussion that you
are voting against
deferment as which is the current um
position that's been put by councel
white and councel Wells I'll be making
that choice when there's more discussion
around thank you so next on the list is
councelor
Wells yes thank you Madame mayor I did
suggest to you during recess that um
pulling this bag of bones
apart uh in a full council meeting is uh
not the way to go it's an unseemly
process um and in my view not
appropriate and for that reason I
supported my suggestion to you which
councelor white articulate by way of of
an amendment to defer this to a briefing
Madame mayor the U just a comment you've
made on the determination of Council on
the 29th and 30th of January with
relation to staff and there being no no
redundancies that was the case that was
what council resolved but it resolved
knowing that council's current natural
attrition rate is 15% staff turnover per
anom now depending upon which headcount
you use whether you use the 2012
headcount of around 9 50 to 1,000 staff
or the one published in the
dpop most recently of 1550
staff uh at a 15% attrition rate that
means that 100 to 150 staff are going to
be shaved from the organization
naturally over the next 12
months and that will essentially
liquidate the acalog or make a very
substantial contribution towards
it
um I think it unseenly to say which
projects Mr Lamont's uh framework for
the assessment of these projects was
absolutely spot on uh there were some
that can be paused I estimate four I
there are a couple that continue I
estimate two and there are two that I
don't think we should even be talking
about that is the kangaro valley
playground and the B Berry Spinners and
Weavers because council's commitment in
relation to both of those projects was
to Simply take them to Da stage so it's
good is great to be uh to be manly in
Harry chest and to say let's defer these
projects when the projects were always
intended by Council to be taken to Da
and the proponents would thereafter
chase the money I I thought I'd made
that position quite clear to you
councilors over the weekend but by way
of an
email so those issues need to go
into um a briefing
because as Council Norris and Council
white have pointed out we have a
commitment to to meet with u Mrs Butler
and Mrs Phillips our state and federal
members to discuss the continuation or
otherwise of the San Point library and
the potentially embarrassing re
reimbursement of the federal government
of $75 million grant that we included
our investment perspectus only 18 months
ago uh we can't even back up our own our
own public perspectives and secondly I
understand the Bomer Basketball
Association as a asked for a meeting of
its executive with all counselors too I
would like that to be done very very
expeditiously so their position can be
taken into the briefing I'm referring
to uh
nobody uh oh I don't know whether I'm
breaking confidences here but the mayor
asked us to meet as a collegial body
after the briefing that was held on the
7th of the uh this month that is after
the briefings last Thursday a number of
us stayed behind to identify common
ground over this uh smers board that we
have in front of us tonight uh and we
made some determinations amongst
ourselves uh I'm having a look at that
all over again in the light of what's
Happening here tonight in terms of
community
donations uh and I certainly will be
strongly opposing the reinstatement of
outdoor public dining fees for a couple
of reasons first of which is the cost of
collecting it policing it will outweigh
the actual Revenue
gathered so it's going to be a net loss
to the organization unless you
substantially increase the fees which
will just R matter business a bit
quicker than than advancing this
proposal so if you want to go ahead and
and ruin the Ambiance of the
uh of kingh Horn Street on a Saturday
morning or a Friday morning the
breakfast set that's out there go right
ahead and introduce a fee we she have to
go around collect from time to time so
for those reasons they need to consult
CL with a couple of the
proponents uh I need to relook at
Community donations and a reaffirmation
of getting rid of this public foot cost
and the other three or four taxes that
were brought before us that we're not
haven't discussed tonight we need to go
over that ground in a in a briefing and
come back to the community and be open
and UPF front with them
councilor
kotash thank you may feeling in the
committee of the whole I don't need to
stand up do I no that's great my back's
bugged
um couple of things that I that i' draw
to other counsil attention um one of
them is that that the uh Community
donations program at a financial cost of
200 $100,000 a year represents about
0.005% of our budget um why I'm I'm
raising that not because I don't think
it's something we need to look at it
certainly is something we need to look
at but I don't think it should be
something that we look at urgently if
we're looking to find money urgently 0
whatever it is is not going to make a
much much of a difference so what I'm
suggesting we do is we look at those
things that might provide us a greater
gain upfront and quickly and that would
provide uh our our finance people with a
bit of breathing room so you know I'm
not against having a look at these
things but I don't think it should be
our first order of business the um
Capital project spot on the money uh I
think I think you will realize May
Finley that um The Sanctuary Point
District Library uh comes at a cost and
that cost I'm being told by our finance
staff is too great for us to afford but
that cost is based on the information
that we have in the aec report that was
a library that was going to cost twice
as much as you might be able to build a
library for we have two staff at sanctu
Point library now on cost at sanctu
Point Library we will not continue to
have that on cost that on cost will
transfer to a new building so while the
picture is being painted of great
expense here I don't think it's going to
be that the other part that that gets me
is that at the
moment we're looking at little bits and
pieces here and there we haven't made
any savings anywhere else it may well be
the case that that we find $25 million
worth of saving in a particular area of
this Council that's possible so that
certainly would allow there to be two
and a half people employed at sanctu
Point Library so what I'm saying is that
by looking at the minuche of these
smaller projects now I think we're
selling ourselves short on what we might
be able to do with the whole budget in
the future
take from that that I will support the
deferment because I
will before I go on with the speakers
list there's been a number of things
that have been raised already um that I
just wish to uh refer to the CEO and the
first one is your comment councelor
kotash around finding $20 million
somewhere else and the fact that you
seem to think that then some sort of
excavation has not been done in this
place and I'm going to ask the CEO to
make a comment on that
thank you mayor Finley um and I will
defer to Katie in a moment but I can
whilst I'm only 5 weeks into the role I
can guarantee there is not $25 million
sitting somewhere waiting to be found if
that were to be the case our expert
professional Financial Services team
would have already found that and we
wouldn't be in this situation so Katie
do you want to add anything further to
that to add happy to add some extra
comments um as the CEO has suggested
there there is no quick win and we made
that very clear through all the
workshops that we held with aec that um
to find that level of savings
immediately would be cutting off an arm
a leg and a and a an arm a leg and a
foot that doesn't make sense um but
that's the level of service cuts it
would be required to find $20 million we
could repay all of our general fund debt
down which is currently sitting at
around 200 million and that's six6 odd
million dollar in savings so you know to
to find a couple of Big Ticket items
it's not going to be the solution we do
need to chip away at every little bit
every little bit counts it's the same as
what we've been saying to our staff that
no suggestion of saving is too small
everything in accumulation will will
assist um the other thing that's
important to note is that it does take
seed funding to to research and
investigate some of the proposals that
have been put to staff through the
recommendations um and we are building a
budget item for that in next year's
budget however our current financial
budget doesn't allow doesn't have a pool
of funds for us to start to to chip into
um there's also a number of initiatives
that we have already kicked off which we
did present to councilors in the
workshop last week so we've commenced
the uh well the fleet review will
commence so we're looking at our
utilization of our um plant Fleet um and
how we can better U manage that across
the organization there's an internal
reviewing to Le legal cost that's
happening we've already been doing work
on our grants management system to make
sure that's improved Project Life Cycle
management the um Enterprise project
management office they're all
initiatives that we have been working on
and are close to implementation that
will in the long run provide Financial
benefits to the organization but is it
going to provide the magic $20 million
no um but we are hard at work on all of
those different initiatives um but we do
need to chip away at all the little
savings Revenue generation it items or
cost savings that we can to to
assist thanks Katie I'm just going to go
to the CEO for a comment on further
comment on those projects that are under
underway and to also address councilor
wells's 15% natural attrition and what
that actually does to the
organization thank you mayor Finley and
thanks Katie for the for the summary of
um of the items already underway that
you've mentioned um couple of others
that we are working on will be the asset
management strategy asset work system um
and we will be reporting this in future
uh reports because we have made a
commitment to a monthly report on the
financial sustainability and to the
public so that they can understand where
we're where we're achieving those
savings and we'll be able to outline a
lot more of the operational Savings in
future reports because as has already
been highlighted these things take time
to achieve uh so they're not just
immediate implementation and you find
the savings you know within the next day
some of them have lead time so the
productivity opportunities and and cost
savings will be shared within future
meetings of the things the big ticket
items the capital projects and the like
and an outline of some of the smaller
operational items so that the cumulative
benefit of that can be achieved uh and
is really known to the community and it
really and to the council is of course
going forward in setting future budgets
in terms of Staff uh attrition and and
uh not seeking redundancy it's really um
as an organization I guess making people
redundant is a difficult thing to do and
so that is not an easy thing it's better
if we can achieve natural attrition and
and turnover so that is something we are
working on at the moment just to say
natural attrition by everyone that's
that leaves is not replaced is actually
not possible because we will then have
no control over the types of positions
that leave uh and then so we may have as
an example if five environmental health
officers left tomorrow uh we could not
deliver that service so we do have some
essential functions that we need to
recruit to and as I mentioned in the
barry Forum last week there are a number
of positions so the executive and the
senior leadership team are scrutinizing
every position as it becomes vacant and
uh looking at only appointing those that
are essential to maintain our operation
because we still have to run our
organization so the turnover is there at
15% but saying you'll get a 15% saving
uh is not as quick as what might be
described and we do have uh legislative
requirements that we need to meet so
those are some of the things that we are
working on and those the savings around
those will be seen in future reports uh
you know it's um as as Katie has pointed
out it's it's a lot of things Al
together and I think that that's really
well articulated in the complex and very
significant detail of the
recommendations from the aec report and
the council resolutions of how they
would like us to address this challenge
going forward thanks mayor thank you
councelor Copley you're next thank you
Madame
mayor so here we are and uh I'm not
surprised but I will uh draw your memory
back to the night of the 30th of January
when we debated very vigorously after
two consecutive nights uh about the
SRV and uh I I did actually raise an
alternative motion which was uh slapped
down and and uh called very simplistic
but if you will recall that motion did
uh call for the opportunity for the then
uh CEO who had not started to be given
the opportunity to hit the ground
running come into this organization and
do some work with the staff and present
us with uh some uh Solutions uh we
didn't go down that path instead we
accepted well you all did I didn't uh
accepted a motion that was was quite in
depth with a lot of different moving
paths to it uh and a lot of you know
backs slapping and high-fiving however
the reason one of the main reasons that
I didn't support that motion was because
I had I feared that we'd be we would be
exactly where we are here tonight and
that is where we are now looking to a
report that is going to be bounced
around back to workshops more talk fests
more thinking about it uh pulling things
apart uh going through you know project
by project um to try and find some
resolution to this financial uh
situation that we find ourselves
in so the um the comment that I would
like to make tonight uh is a couple of
things first of all I find it fascina
Well actually don't I'm really not
surprised frankly that uh where we are
so immediately our first or monthly
report that we're looking at tonight is
uh the community projects that we're now
calling into question and the heavy
lifting we're now asking immediately to
be um undertaken for this um
sustainability review and to find some
Financial savings is directed firmly and
squarely at the community and the
business
community and I you know very
disappointed in that now I can
understand and and I respect that you
know everyone's going to have to pitch
in and do our bit and all the rest of
the comments you want to make but when
we're talking about the financial
situation that we find ourselves in and
the magnitude of that and we are
seriously sitting here considering a
saving of $200,000 for the Comm from the
community and potentially $40,000 from
the business Community as our first and
most prioritized action I'm go
gobsmacked quite frankly that there're
the the couple of things that we've
focused on up front I mean yes we can
argue that it all helps but seriously a
$440,000 saving that's like using a
thimble full of water to put out a
bushire come on guys let's get serious
about this so the other thing that I'd
be very interested in hearing when this
report does come back to us and we need
coun Copley I I'm just going to pick you
up there for your comment I would
actually now like you to withdraw your
comment around come on guys let's get
serious as I think that you've just um
exceeded your ability in the code of
conduct you've brought the staff into
disrepute you're bringing them into
disrepute com if you're off of the the
fact that these people are working
extraordinarily hard to not just deliver
this report but to work on a myriad of
things that are on the back and I'd like
you to withdraw and apologize please
sorry guys apologies but I'm really
Gravely concerned about where we're at
tonight happy to withdraw nothing um
don't mean to offend the staff in any
way shape or form but I am really
serious about looking at something that
is potentially here to save us
$40,000 so my question then back to you
is with some of these savings or these
potential projects that we're looking to
actually um pause or whatever wording
you would like to
use will we be able to be given some
information about what money has been
invested in those projects to date uh or
what will be held um in those projects
through uh planning or any Investments
that we've already made to get those
projects to whatever stage they are at
uh when we before we potentially pause
them um and also um I'd just like to
make an observation that some of those
projects uh would also and I think as
Council Norris mentioned or alluded to
with those does come job creation and
economic development which we're also
talking about tonight so look there's a
whole raft of issues here yes we're
facing a significant situation and yes
there's going to be a whole lot of
different uh levers that we're going to
have to pull to address this
situation but I will you know whilst I'm
sorry if I've offended the staff in any
way I cannot step back from the fact
that our first report um has picked out
some of these areas that um we seem to
be as our significant first priorities
um in a in the financial situation that
we find ourselves in and I won't step
back from those comments so thanks
thanks Council Copley I'm going to go to
the CEO um particularly to address your
um your point there uh that there's an
inference that Council has not provided
you me or any of the other councilors
the financial background detail on the
uh the projects that have been listed in
the report this evening CEO would you
like to address that comment please
thank you mayor and firstly I'll I'll
throw to Katie in a moment just on the
detail of what's being provided but I
did just want want to clarify that yes
Point items items Point 2 and three in
the recommendation are a value of
2,400,000 the value of the capital
projects that are up for consideration
is considerably higher and so we need to
be careful that we are not just picking
out things that that uh that don't paint
the whole picture of of the financial um
it's also important to note that the
workshops that we have uh scheduled have
had a clear agenda and so there's I
don't think they're done in priority
order in terms of value but there's
certainly been a a listing of what will
be covered in each workshop and so these
are the things that are in in the
workshops knowing there's a range of
things still to come to be discussed so
it's not to say that Community donations
or or those fees were the most important
things to tackle but it was the sequence
uh sequencing of the workshop agendas
which has been shared with counselors in
the two workshops to date of of what
will be covered but but Katie do you
want to provide a comment on the detail
that's been provided um to counselors as
per counselor cop please request thanks
uh through you madam mayor um we have
provided as part of the briefing
packages for the nine projects that have
been discussed with councilors what the
budgets were um what was funded what was
unfunded what was the spend to date and
what was the commitments to date um we I
guess we haven't provided um what would
be required to spend to make it shovel
ready so that might be the one piece of
information that has been missing um
however everything else has been
provided in the Deep um detailed
briefing packages example here um and
then that's been summarized into the
business
paper thank you so councilor copy just
in case you missed your email um on the
1st of March from Lauren Buckingham um
there were a number of detachments that
were there for your leisure um which was
the implementation plan of the workshops
going forward um the minute that we um
all passed or apart from yourself um the
list of those who received Community
donations The Proposal on FY 2425 fees
and the financial sustainability Council
of briefing um PowerPoint which in that
PowerPoint clearly clearly spelled out
the amount of money that have been
invested in the projects to date um the
amount of money that was expected to
make those projects complete and where
those funds were from and then the St 's
recommendation on whether to pause defer
or
continue councelor L you're next well
thanks
uh
sorry on you're on oh sorry I thought it
was muted um thanks uh very much Madame
mayor um I speak in favor of deferral
tonight um clearly uh there is um a lot
of concern about what has been proposed
uh tonight tonight yes it was discussed
at the recent Workshop um I was not able
to attend the meeting uh last thur day
as I did have a prior engagement um but
I am concerned that uh these two
proposals have been put on the table
tonight when there are so many other
features of the motion uh which was
adopted by this Council um uh on the
30th of January I think ultimately uh
and look I happen to think that that was
a very strong resolution in the sense
that provides direction for Council uh
on in terms of prioritizing a range of
um a savings Target looking at the um
the idea of natural attrition with there
being no FSE redundancies that was made
clear in that motion uh but as Council
Wells has outlined there is great uh
potential there um as we go forward to
look at um how those savings can be
incorporated into our budget so uh some
of these Capital Works projects have a
lot of detail um and I appreciate I've
had the chance to look at that uh I
think there are some real question marks
around what we do with the sanction
Point Library there are other
stakeholders that we need to be talking
to I will not be party to um uh
completely shelving this project at this
point given that there are still um
discussions we had with our elected
representatives uh which I think all of
us need to be part of I do acknowledge
the point about on costs and um
increases in operational expenditure but
look this whole strategy needs to be
looked at uh together I don't think that
a peac me approach is necessarily going
to get us there um I think there's still
a lot more work we need to do through
the workshops to come up with a more
comprehensive strategy that brings some
of these moving Parts together um
because if we commit to sort of not
doing the donations for example tonight
um that may mean that we don't find
other Savings in areas that would be
more suitable so uh I do think we
probably need to rethink the strategy
overall and how these reports are going
to come forward in terms of the action
items I think it's important to update
the community on what is discussed and
what is being considered uh but I do
have concerns that if we're just going
to be doing this um on a monthly basis
with um small little things being bitten
off um I I I just don't know if that's
the right approach I think we need to
sort of come up with a strategy where it
all fits together um rather than just
doing it uh one stage at a time but
that's just my own yeah personal view
yeah as opposed to a more of a peac
approach so uh look so I think deferral
would probably be appropriate at this
point I know it's the first report back
from the workshops but I think it's just
another opportunity for us to come
together particularly on the capital
Works project I think that's where we
really need to have further discussion
as a group um and hopefully we can come
back again uh with some clarity so
councelor before I throw to director
Hamilton um your comments there around
the peac meal process and the monthly
report backs um I would also remind you
and all of us here uh that we actually
voted for that to happen we I wanted to
have regular reports to council that
were clearly in the view of the
community this is a report that is
clearly in the view of the community um
so that there's no
um accusation can be leveled that
there's some form of hidden agenda um
and I would put it to you that part of
the so what you would term the peac meal
Pro process is what is trying to take in
bite-sized chunks um what is a complex
and long process where we do need to
give our staff the opportunity to be
able to build a budget with Progressive
decision making not Progressive kicking
the issue into the long grass to another
Workshop another briefing but I would go
to um to director Hamilton for her
comment
please yeah thank you counselors um I
just want to talk in fact and on behalf
of Staff here
tonight um because we are trying to
support you as much as we can um and
when I say I talking fact I just want I
want to present the facts to you so so
that we're all clear on what's Happening
Here
you voted for us to engage an external
consultant because you were concerned
about our long-term Financial
sustainability we did that we engaged
aec to come in who told us that if we
wanted long-term Financial
sustainability we needed to have an
SRV we voted against an SRV or you voted
against an SRV and you put up
recommendations for staff to look at we
presented those recommendations to you
with a survey and said to you could you
please tell us what the most important
things are to you and we will do those
for you each fortnite and we'll work
through them it is a peacemeal um
approach and it's because you asked us
to give you a peacemeal approach some of
them mightn't be as much as other things
but we're in March you voted no to an
SRV in January we're in March and we
still haven't got a yes on anything
we're still in we still got Financial um
a financial problem and we're voting
again tonight to defer this again for
more
briefings um it's really hard for staff
to know what direction to go um we just
don't appear to be having any results
and it is hard to listen that the blame
keeps getting put back on staff all the
time when we're only following your
direction thank you
director's um the next speaker on the
speaking list is councelor kotash no
okay do you want to push a button and
terminate
and councelor Wells you're next thank
you I'm next now am I yes you are thank
you
um I will stand because I'm going to ask
a question uh before I speak U Madam
mayor could I have an estimate of next
year's salary and wages total cost
that's
2425 in the preliminary budget papers
please thank you thank you Council Wells
we don't have that information yet the
budget uh work is underway but we're not
at a at a point to be able to provide
that at the moment I read I read the
number today um Madam CEO in the budget
briefing papers but I'm not allowed to
disclose it but the number is
NN thanks Cody through you Madame mayor
um as was mentioned in those slides
whilst we have calculated the employee
costs on the current organizational
structure we're still to look at the
internal recovery of employee costs
against grants and as well against
Capital so we have the gross number but
we do not have the net number at the
moment and that'll be continueed to be
workshopped with counselors throughout
the month of um March into April and the
gross
number allow to
share it doesn't matter well we know
that we're coming back for another
Workshop counselor so why don't we talk
about it there doesn't matter it's not
going to affect my line of argument
anyway but I write simply to uh to
express to the CEO and the mayor that U
on the issue of
chover uh that the key positions um that
are required statutorily or are of a
critical skill set nature Council
resolved on the 28 29th and 30th of
January to put the retention of those
staff or the replacement of those staff
in your the EMT hands so I'm I'm very
pleased that you're doing just what
council resulted and and it's true that
the actual churn over may be 15% but
when you maybe u
reappoint u 20 or 30% of those because
they fill statutary positions or have
critical skills then uh we might might
get only U 10% staff reduction or 8%
staff reduction but it's still uh an
important thing to pursue and I say that
because uh table 34 of aec's
report um not noted that in 178 and our
total wage and salaries bill was 54
million in 2021 22 it was 88
million uh and from the number I've seen
today it would seem to me that uh over
seven years council's wages and salaries
costs have G up by about 130 to
135% now a staff member who had been
here for 7 years for that cold
continuous period they're not going to
be 135% better off they might be 40 50%
better off so the the difference between
what staff are getting paid and the
actual cost of the organization is the
extra staff that have been engaged over
the intervening period particularly
postco particularly post December
2021 uh I too am interested in in the
facts uh and a to my recollection did
not recommend that Council needed to go
to an SV what aec said on page eight of
its executive
summary that
the general fund rate equivalent if
Council didn't sell assets didn't
undertake service reviews didn't tight
tighten its belt in didn't stretch out
its capital program didn't do a range of
other things if we didn't do those the
additional rate equivalent would be
32% what the executive then did was come
to council say we need an sib for 32%
that isn't what a said that is not what
AAC
said I've I've told you what the factual
situation what aec said is if you don't
do these things then you're going to
need 32% you could even need 4 44% count
Christ so for these for these reasons I
like to if there no other other lights I
move the motion be put it soon as the
current speakers are finished so
councilor Wells you continue to
propagate the
disinformation that the aec report um
was an either or proposition can I
please go to miss Buckman to reconfirm
that that is
incorrect are three Madam may just
reiterating the same information that
was provided to the meeting of the 29th
page 108 of the report says that an SRV
is
unavoidable yeah I know I know page one
I didn't take a direction we do this
thank you so councelor Wells we're in
Council of Wells has suggested that the
motion be put we also need to extend the
meeting time because we've passed 9900
p.m. um so sorry I think we've got till
9:30 we got 9:30 okay Okay so we've got
to 9:30 to do that um and I also would
advise us that we've still got kitchen
staff waiting for us so um councelor
Wells you've moved that the motion be
put there are three other people in the
room who haven't spoken because we're in
Committee of the whole um we're going to
go and let those speakers speak um so
councelor gray you are next then
councelor
Boyd um mayor Finley I really don't know
where to start I am flamed by what I
hear this chamber
say you the majority of you didn't want
a rate variation so we have found
ourself in this impass we've had
director Hamilton point out how we keep
flip-flopping you talk about political
hairy chested all I can see is a lack of
political backbone it is so hard for our
staff to do anything when you flip flop
and then do a back flip all of the time
so as far as I'm concerned there are
some things that we need to do because
you talked about
collaboration I've done two notice of
motions since this came up one was to
cut our counselor expenditures from 52%
for 52,000 sorry which Mr Lamont would
SP would cover our outdoor dining fees
so remember that one please the other
notice of motion I put up was to look at
changing one piece of real estate from
Community to operational which could
have gotten us $2 million four people in
this room voted against it what is our
community seeing nothing but lack of
leadership we need to do better and we
start tonight by moving forward not
deferring let's keep
moving thank you councelor gray councel
Boyd oh okay um I don't want to kick
this down the road either I think it's
ridiculous the other night we agreed
that we would pause these projects and I
emphasize pause any work that's already
been done on any of these projects is an
investment in that project for the
future so it's read where if wherever on
top of this financial situation that
money is already invested and we can go
ahead with those projects however I I'd
like it divided into well two parts the
the recommendation I'd like to remove
Sanctuary Point District Library
construction from that subject to the
consultations we need to do with the
local members and I'd like to remove the
bonger stages five to seven which have
already we've already discussed at
length and decided how we would go ahead
so if those two were
removed we agreed the other night that
all these others could be put on pores
or hold however you like to say it I'd
like to put the other because there's so
much controversy about these points two
and three maybe there the two we defer
to further down the trail when we've I
don't know done some other stuff looked
at some other more substantial things
that don't impact so specifically on
groups in the um in in the community
thanks so councelor Boyd I'm going to
ask you the question is that your
foreshadowed motion is to separate part
one um into the two separable portions
which defers and pauses some of the
items but um doesn't doesn't defer d e n
g sorry d and e d and e yeah and that uh
that motion then would also defer point
to two and three for further discussion
is that a for well not necessarily
further discussion but to a later date
when we have
more savings up Our Sleeve so to speak y
yes that is my foreshadowed motion okay
great thank you um
counselor
Norris thank you m Finley um I just want
to make it clear I'm not attacking non
attacking staff I understand understand
the difficult job you are doing I
understand it um I understand why the
process is what it is I understand the
way we voted and I understand why it's a
peacemeal approach so I get that um what
I do want to emphasize though and I've
said it many times in this chamber let's
work smarter not harder I don't think
that six people in a room after a
briefing is the fund the whole of
council which is 13 of us I I really
think perhaps we get an email from any
of the counselors who aren't able to
attend I understand we all have things
we're doing so you know I understand why
people can't attend but perhaps if we
have an email circulated you weren't at
the briefing did you check the notes
what do you say about them just to get
that level of feedback so that it's
always they're always front and center
um I'd just like to see if we could do
that otherwise I confer with councilor
world can we move the motion councelor
Norris Can I with all due respect
the biggest thing that we need to deal
with in this council is our financial
sustainability we have been sent a
forward calendar to do that work it is
not the staff's responsibility to hold
our hand and make phone calls to us and
ask us have we seen the notes it's our
responsibility to check our email to
check our portal and to check every
other Avenue and if we feel that we have
missed out on something to ask the
senior staff that is our responsibility
is that there's no more pressure being
put on these people to service the needs
of the people around the room because
they're already doing it so with great
respect I I make those comments our
Council of um Wells you can continue to
ask me to move the motion be put but
we're in the committee of the hall and
we are not doing that because it um you
cannot ask that during the committee of
the H I have councelor Kristen next and
then Council
L yeah thank you madam mayor um look I I
think counselors that
we can't keep pushing this down the
track um at least try to make some
decisions tonight um make the obvious
ones make the ones you can agree on
rather than just um continuing to defer
um all these items down the track give
the staff something to work with um
that's that would be my suggestion look
also it is a bu you know you build a b a
budget from the bottom up and um that's
what staff are trying to do here so um
um you know the the charging for table
space on pavement it's it's $40,000 but
it's $40,000 over 10 years it's $400,000
and it's Revenue not cost and also it
sets an example that other fees and
charges will have will no doubt come in
front of us and be tackled as well are
we going to knock back every single rise
in fees and
charges about $30,000 divided by 73
businesses is about I don't know 400
bucks something like that that so it's
not massive I mean it might be a big
impact on on some little businesses
perhaps they could put in a a hardship
claim but overall it's not massive
everyone else does it um and I believe
this a symptom of why where this council
is where it's at is that too often fees
and charges are not levied when they
should be or not appropriate rates
compared to other
councils um look it seems really harsh
and it just makes me feel um very sad to
see a donations program cut like that
but be aware that that's that's 200,000
Instant Cash okay that's Instant Cash in
the budget whereas a lot of other things
that are put being put forward have a
lot of whole bunch of um things are tied
to them um staff
attrition yes um that will happen but at
what rate what salary we don't know very
difficult to budget against that
and uh we don't know who's going to
retire or move on and whether they who
knows whether it will be 14% essential
positions or 5% essential positions I
think it's difficult for for us to
Budget on things like that that can be a
gain in the longer term so there's so
many things that are not you know
they're not we're not getting money
quickly and um if we don't make any
decisions at any
point you know how's it going to word I
mean can't I don't understand there has
to be some decisions
made thank you okay so councilors before
I go to councelor L and to councelor
gray um noting the time um so we have
two propositions in front of us at the
moment we've got the uh motion that's
been moved by councelor Wells and white
which is to defer um and the
foreshadowed motion around making a
partial decision around pausing some of
those projects that uh there was
reasonable agreement on so councelor L
do you want to speak to either of those
propositions at this point uh well no
Madam mayor I just I just wanted to uh
well yes I guess you know that is we are
on the topic um uh look I just wanted to
clarify um I guess in response to what
was said about my comments earlier I'm
not suggesting that the level of
information being provided is
insufficient I'm not suggesting that the
workshop process has been anything other
than um instructive for counselors and I
think it is a good a good way of going
through this um however I'm guided very
much by the resolution that we did adopt
back on the 30th um which is really
about trying to develop I guess a
comprehensive strategy um going forward
uh I did not expect that these reports
back whilst um I agree it's important to
inform the community um I did not
necessarily think that these reports
back every single month would be putting
forward decisions in isolation uh and
that's the only concern that I have that
there are some very significant um
matters that we need to look at in terms
of the overall savings Target in terms
of um attrition all these things we
discussed tonight and I think these
should be seen as building blocks to
toward a strategy that we can then
present to the whole Community as part
of the budget um I'm just concerned that
we're not just saying well uh these are
decisions I guess these decisions
ultimately will be made finally in the
budget that's probably a point I'd like
to clarify however the what the effect
of these decisions are tonight if we say
that you know we're not going to have a
community donations program for this
year that won't appear then in the
budget um so look I I just wanted to
clarify that I think this is not
necessarily in terms of the the
decisions being put forward in the
reports um is not necessarily the best
way to go forward um and perhaps I
misunderstood where we would land on
this but uh I think that what we need to
do is present information about what
we're discussing in the workshop so that
the community is aware and there is
consultation about those ideas um but in
terms of when we make a final decision
on it as a council I think that should
be a few steps down the track after
we've had more workshops that's that's
where I think we need to land on it um
but I don't know if that's the position
of colleagues but that that's really
what I wanted to clarify it's not to say
that the workshops aren't valuable it's
not to say that we shouldn't be
informing our community but in terms of
when we make decisions um I I don't want
to see it being done in isolation I
think we do need to work harder and have
more more of some of the substantive
work done when it comes to the savings
program and uh where we land potentially
on nutrition before we can make final
decisions on these other matters
councelor gray to the two substantive
issues that are on the page which is the
foreshadowed and the uh the fural uh I'd
like to speak to point three please and
suggest a foreshadowed motion I think
it's with Benjamin right now this
outdoor dining seems to be a sticking
point but we do know that the three
surrounding councils are doing it and
policing it and collecting with no
problems so I suggest or could I have a
question first to director McIntyre as
in will you be invoicing
monthly quarterly half yearly yearly
Etc it's through you Madame mayor I um
actually made this inquiry of staff
today because I anticipated that this
might be something that would be
discussed um because of the amount of
funds uh it would be most prudent most
practical to invoice once a year so once
annually and on that note it is
definitely clear that this is a tax
deduction for these businesses so in
other words tax deductible expense it's
ordinarily a cost incurred in in uh
running a business and making a profit
is is ordinarily tax deductible that's
correct okay and they they're worried
about the CBD of Nara can we perhaps do
different ratings for maybe the CBD
versus the tourist area areas which seem
to be doing quite well with their
outdoor seating and I don't need to name
those organizations that are doing very
well so certainly uh the idea of zoning
uh this type of uh f is possible um the
anticipated amount of Revenue in year
one is um as we've discussed tonight in
the vicinity of
$40,000 if Council was of a mind to um
perhaps
uh adopt that as a Target but with that
Target to be spread across one or more
or several zones within the city great
uh to be ultimately determined or rather
to be ultimately provided by way of
information to the council thank you
very much so you can see my foreshadowed
motion for point three if you would like
to uh add it in I would really welcome
your support as
well okay so we have three motions now
before us um um I have councelor cut
lash next on the speaker's list thank
you may Finley
um I don't know how much I'm allowed to
say about our confidential briefing that
we held last week except to say that
nearly all of the issues that we've
discussed this evening that we've spent
a great deal of time discussing were
raised at that briefing and uh an
agreement was almost reached between
those councilors to have that uh put yet
what happened was that that sometime
during last week there was a media
release about this
paper and that caused some concern in
the community where we had already
arrived at not arrived at a decision but
arrived at a way forward
and we're not there yet so I'm a little
concerned about that happening it's an
old it's an Old Chestnut that you and I
have spoken about on the email from time
to time but it concerns me that that is
the case I was hoping to come here
tonight to very quickly and methodically
go through these issues bang bang bang
yet here we
are councelor Kristen I guess this
um uh in reference to councelor L's
comments um I believe that all the items
put in front of us are important items
that the staff have put there for a
reason and I I think it would be very
difficult to if I'm right to try and
deal with this in one massive decision
making session that
um and and and and then have the you
know
uh yes this no not that all in one big
session in you know in in a month or
two's time and I think that's I think
that's why we need to try and do it try
and do it as we can bit by bit and if
there's bits that can't be decided on
really you know real sticking points
yeah put them aside but let's try and
move on on the few things that are are
fairly
clear I think that's the sort of thing
that we could do at a finance committee
because all councilors are members of a
finance committee that would allow us to
present a whole lot of agreed things to
a meeting and do it in a
fairly brief manner I think counil
kutash uh look I am just now astonished
at the pathway of this conversation and
why am I astonished is that you have
just told me that you were willing to
come tonight to make some decisions but
that you're no longer willing to make
those decisions because a media release
went out and because a media release
went out and there's a few people in the
gallery and you feel Under Pressure that
you do no longer want to make those
decisions is that what I'm hearing
because that's what it sounds like and
the other thing is that if we're going
to make I mean you said these comments
and it is very fair the thing is that
you're if you want to do this stuff
behind closed doors in a committee we
can create a we can make that committee
make those decisions and that those
decisions are cleaned up and dropped in
here but then the expectation is that
that's a unanimous decision and that
ain't going to happen because it can't
happen in here already already no one
came here this evening and said these
were roughly what we discussed and this
is what we're going to do and everyone
has just run away from the position
where we had a discussion so you know
other than councelor Boyd and councelor
gray who have actually put something on
the table to make a decision so we're
going to make some decision- making now
I think that that would be the really
great thing to do because now nearly
9:30 um councelor Copley I'm really
willing to take a a discussion point
from you and then we're going to move it
on thank you Madame
mayor do you can I just make a
suggestion so the just to clarify
this has been the first tranch of
information that we've received in
Council as a report based on the
decisions that we made to address our
financial
sustainability what I would be very keen
to see and as I I've said all the way
along and being clear on is let's give
the staff the opportunity to come to us
with more options of where those savings
are going to be because I think why
we're so um it's it's so hot on the the
topic tonight is this has been a very
small window of of options to start off
the discussion of where we're going to
meet savings so if we've got more
briefings and we've got another four
hours tomorrow night where we can
discuss other options I would like to
see the staff be given more more
opportunity as I was trying to raise in
my motion for the CEO to come to us with
a raft of of things where savings can be
be had where we can discuss and put it
all together rather than as we've
discussed picking these out because then
we're going to have a broader picture
we're going to have a bigger WI a better
idea of um across the board where we can
make savings rather than targeting
specific groups and I think um our
colleagues would probably be able to
look at that in a more uh holistic
approach as a general saving across the
organization rather than um seeming to I
Peck or Target particular areas or
projects or whatever so I would suggest
that um perhaps we've got another big
body of work do tomorrow night 4 hours
um and then that will give the staff
some more opportunity to present some
more savings to us which we can then
look more more cohesively as a package
rather than um bits and pieces just as a
a
collaboration thank you so councilors uh
counselor L thank you you were going to
move a motion for the extension of time
um do you do so yep and I have a
secondary and counselor Christen um how
long are we going to extend for we've
still got the we've still got the uh
confidential item to go as
well half an
hour right let's try and aim to get out
of here before
10:00 well I mean that that if we put
the 10:00 on it doesn't mean that we
have to all speak for 5 minutes on
everything and we can be quite efficient
um I'll put that motion is there any
descent there being no descent then no
is carried um now we're going to move
into the decision-making round of the
committee of the hall then we're going
to go out of Committee of the hall we're
going to go out of the committee of the
hall when we've made the decisions first
counselor so the first um decision that
the committee of the hall has requested
to make is are we going to defer the
report so I'd like to see a show of
hands please uh from counselors uh who
are going to defer the report in its
entirety
okay so there are seven counselors
actually we'll do that um on the device
please okay so the motion to defer is
now carried now I'll take the motion to
uh so that means that the four Shadows
uh are off the table at at this point in
time although we're now going to go out
of the committee of a hall and when we
go back into the the into the ordinary
council meeting it's back to rules on
yeah Council Wells has moved the
procedural motion to move out of the
committee of the whole can I have a
second to please councelor Norris thank
you is there any dissenting voices
around coming out of the committee in
the hall there are none and that is
carried which now brings us back to the
substantive motion and the substantive
motion that's come from the committee of
the H is that the item be deferred now
we're now that we're back debating this
particular item there is again the
opportunity should anyone wish to put
any foreshadowed motions or any changes
to the
motion thank you I would me to take two
uh two speakers for and two speakers
against counselor before that um
procedural motion can be adhered to um
so
in are let me just ask that question
again are there any further foreshadowed
motions or any changes to the motion of
deferral thank you councelor Boyd please
foreshadow your motion is the the same
as the motion that You' put in in the
committee I'd like to put the other
foreshadowed Motion in as the number in
as number three yep so you'd like to uh
amalgamate counselor gra two y yep okay
so we have a foreshadowed em motion from
counselor Boyd that is part one and two
as put by councelor gray and the pause
on the other and would then defer the
community donations to another point in
time yeah so one would be sorry let me
just be clear the recommendation that
Council boy would be putting this
evening is that a b
c f g h and I in the Project's list be
paused and that D and E
um there's continued
discussion
what yep okay I thought we'd discuss
[ __ ] to death but um you're happy to
put DNA in there as the Deferred
items I think we' made a decision
haven't we
about yeah but we I need some clarity on
the Oh you mean put them into deferred
so they go back to
yeah so we can do them to death again
yes okay yes I understand and the the
community donations program defer that
for further discuss
defer the
decision to another time when we have a
greater collection of savings yep and
then three as you've described as in
endorse the pathway forward with the
fees okay that's great
so I've got two speakers now that are on
the speaking
list I've got a deferred motion from
Council sorry a defer motion over here a
um alternative Motion in the
foreshadowed and I've got councelor gray
next on the speaking list and all I want
to say is I will second the foreshadowed
motion by um counselor B great okay so
councelor Wells um you've asked for the
motion to be put but I need two speakers
for so you're going to speak for the
motion of
deferral I'm moving that the motion be
put you cannot do that it's against the
code of meeting practice until I have
two speakers for and two speakers
against so you're speaking for your
motion you just need to stand up and say
I speak for it thank
you do I have a speaker against the
deferral councelor Kristen need to make
some decisions thank you do I have
another speaker for the
deferral I have an amendment
toal um I will stand the Comm the whole
um thanks M I do support the deferral
but I would like added in the wording
there um theer to the finance uh Finance
I think it's a workshop finance
committee Workshop it doesn't really
matter um workshop for
consideration as well as
a
discussion
about
the
composition of
reports uh
and the
timetable for decisions of council
regarding the
same the want that
the discussion we have in the briefing
that's all yep let me just check with
governance if that was captured okay yep
great to the move in the second of the
deferral motion accept the amendment yes
yep councilor Wells yeah I support that
right good now I'm back to I need a
speaker for the deferral I've had an
amendment but I've had no speaker for
the deferral I'm speaking for the
deferral you've already
spoken thank
you and I have a second speaker against
the
deferral thank you councilor
Boyd I speak the motion to defer I think
we need to make some decisions now not
down the road great thank you that now
puts us in the point where we can comply
with the code of meeting practice and
Council Wells has now put a point um of
to bring the motion
forward and as seconded of that is
councelor white you move seconding the
sorry councelor Wells is moving a now
that the motion be put so now that the
motion will be put Council Wells do you
need a write of
reply thing to do I think it's the
logical thing to do we've got a lot more
detail to go through particularly with
the donations vote and I already see
problems with the foreshadowed motion in
that the binary basketball stadiums
included in the list for deferral will
well uh wait till the Basketball
Association executive walks through the
door when the meeting to discuss that
issue is
discussed um and I also understand that
funding applications may have already
been made for that particular project
with the state government what happens
if the that grant funding application is
granted and we've deferred it in advance
of the funding being received these are
the sorts of uh issues that we need to
discuss look I don't think we're going
to spend a lot of time reviewing what we
discussed last Thursday night after the
council briefing that was regrettably uh
published in the media release uh a
somewhat different scenario to what we'd
agreed after the uh the council briefing
without going into detail I think we
need to hold that conversation again I
think we need to hold that conversation
again tomorrow and bring it back into
the chamber as suggested by Council El
through his Amendment to the to the
motion here and uh I'd just like to uh
encourage councils to to vote on the
side of
caution rather than making spur of the
moment decisions on on wording that's
just been made up during the course of
this
meeting okay so the motion is now going
to be put can we please have the vote on
the
deferral okay the status Remains the
Same the motion of deferral is not
defeated and is um carried and we'll be
back to debate the same things over and
over again thank you very much can I
have a motion now to go into
confidential please thank you councelor
gray second by councelor kotash any
dissenting voices there being none I'll
check with the CEO are there any
dissenting voices that we go into
confidential no thank you there are no
desending voices that we don't go that
have been logged with Council to go into
confidential we'll now make that
Arrangement and uh then continue with
our business thank you I see
you item and that will be reported back
to a further um council meeting yes that
is correct thank you yeah okay and with
that I'm going to close the meeting and
thank you all for your
attendance