deputation and debate will be
webcast recorded and made available on
council's website under the provision of
the code of meeting practice our code of
meeting practice states that it is not
the intention of live streaming
recording and publishing to capture
those attending the meeting in the
gallery however this may occur
due to the camera angles and the seating
arrangements by attending this meeting
you are consenting to your image voice
or comments being webcast and recorded
and should refrain from making any
defamatory statements your attendance at
this meeting is taken as your consent to
the possibility that your image and your
voice may be recorded and broadcast to
the
public I don't believe we have any
counselors joining us this evening
online but I do note the absence of
our colleague councilor White so under
the code of meeting practice and the
code of conduct Council and committee
meetings are held to engage in
discussions on various issues ues and to
reach decisions as representatives of
the public this meeting is guided by the
council's code of meeting practice in
conjunction with the code of conduct
therefore I would like to remind both
counselors and the public who are
joining us today that our meeting
principles dictate treating each other
with respect and that all attendees
should behave in a manner that fosters a
safe respectful and orderly environment
our adopted code of conduct which is
based on the model code strictly
prohibits intimidation harassment or
verbal abuse use the code of meeting
practice empowers the chair to halt and
adjourn the meeting in the event of
escalating behavior and
disorder furthermore the chair has the
authority to remove anyone in attendance
from the meeting if their conduct is
deemed inappropriately inappropriate and
consequently I kindly request that
everyone today present follows the
meeting and conducts themselves in a way
that reflects respect safety and
reasonableness councelor Watson we're
just going through the notices at the
beginning of the meeting and for your
attendance by video link under our code
of meeting practice I'd like to remind
that all of our counselors who join
remotely of section
5.20 being that a counselor must give
their full attention to the business and
proceedings of the meeting when
attending a meeting by Audio Visual link
the counselor's camera must be on at all
times during the meeting except as may
be otherwise provided for under this
code can we please now
stand
in standing this evening and
acknowledging country I wish to
acknowledge that over the weekend there
was a significant another significant
weather event and that that significant
weather event has impacted upon the
lands of the Eora Nation people those
people who see the sea as a a real great
connection to the mountains and to their
everlasting culture so to all Aboriginal
people who were impacted upon and to all
people who were impacted upon by the
natural disasters that occurred across
the state during the last few days I
wish to send my deepest respect and
courtesy to them all particularly to the
Elders of the past who have shared
knowledge with those today and to
those Elders of today who continue to
pass knowledge to the young people of
the future who will be our people to
continue that journey throughout
history can we now please have a moment
of silence
reflection
for
thank you can we have the anthem please
[Music]
Australians all let us rejoice for we
are one and
free with golden soil and wealth for toil
our home is girt by sea
our land abounds in natures gifts
of beauty rich and rare
in hisorys page let every stage
Advance Australia Fair
in joyful strains then let us sing
Advance Australia Fair
[Music]
excuse me
I just have a question given this
conditions of entry and pamphlet
and and sheet are mobile phones allowed
to be used to take photos or video of
the proceedings by the public no they're
not and could the public please turn off
their phones like turn the sound off it
would be great if everyone could abide
by the rules of the chamber and put your
phones on silent and probably put it
in your bag as a good place for it to be
thank you thank you so councelors we do
have an apology this evening from
councelor White who's not able to join
us do I have any leaves of absence that
need to be
noted none thank
you can I have someone please confirm
the minutes of the previous meeting
thank you councelor Norris seconded by
councelor Kotlash any dissenting voices
in the in respect to the minutes there
being none then the minutes are carried
thank
you are there any declarations of
interest this evening
councilors yes thank you councelor
Kotlash I have a a
non-significant less than a
non-pecuniary less than significant
interest
in item number
2491 but I will remain in the room for
the debate and the
vote a less than significant non pecuniary
thank
you do you want to fill in your
declaration councelor Kotlash thank you
great lovely any further declarations of
interest Council
?
none okay thank you should any other
declarations arise then we will deal
with that are there any petitions that
need to be presented this
evening
done can I ask please that someone uh
move the addend agenda be introduced
please thank you councelor Wells
seconded by councelor Copley any
dissenting voices at the agendas
are part of this evening's business
they're being none then the
addends are carried into business
which then will take us to the Mayoral
Minutes and councilors as I did make
note at the last meeting it seems that
there's barely a meeting now that goes
past where is not a condolence motion
before this chamber of significant
people from within our community and
this week uh it's to celebrate the life
of Christine Rigg Christine as many of
you know was a very active member of
the Bay and Basin Community Forum but also
throughout the entire Bay and Basin thank
you councelor Kotlash for seconding that
they were ? Christine was an
absolute cornerstone of that community
and she was always fascinated with
nature she was always there to teach
children you know and exchange with
young people her passion for the
environment around her and I'd like to
extend my deepest condolences to David
and their their extended family and I
thank councelor Kotlash for seconding the
motion is there any further discussion
on that condolence motion councilors if
there's being none then I'll put that
and there's no dissenting voices and
it's carried thank you counselors the
next one is the the resignation of the
Deputy Mayor and I have an amended
motion to bring to you this evening and
that has a part three which is with ?
minutes uh and the COO the part three to
introduce into this motion is that for
the purpose of the remainder of this
Council session that the senior staff
contractual matters subcommittee
membership remains
unchanged so that's uh until
September
so there's the two parts and that is
that we note the resignation of
councelor Christen and note that we
will elect a deputy mayor at the next
meeting and retain the senior staff
contractuals can I have a second for
that please thank you councelor Gray any
discussion
councilors none then I'll put the motion
are there any dissenting
voices there being no dissenting voices
then that is carried
councilors with the introduction of the
addendas I do apologize for bringing
on a late mayoral minute you know that I
don't generally like to do that but
the late Mayoral minute is in regards to
the episode that we've just faced over
the weekend and asks basically for
Council to write to the
New South Wales state government
requesting that they immediately release
some emergency funding to assist Council
in managing the aftermath of the
the next episode that we've just been
through council is just so that I can
you know just for the visual purpose of
it I decided that I would list at the
bottom of that page the number of
natural disasters that we've been
through I'm really glad that today is
not Friday because this is our 13th
natural disaster since the mega fires in
uh 2019 and in speaking to Media today
they said well how do you all feel does
the Shoalhaven feel and it's like well
every time it rains now there are many
residents in the Shoalhaven who quiver
and they they they don't want to go
outside they don't know what's going to
happen and they know that there's a high
probability that with these continued
climate change driven incidents that
they that they will find themselves in
hot water or cold water whichever the
state may be with the eer the emergency
declaration as you know unlocks uh
funds for us to get our infrastructure
rebuilt but what it doesn't do is unlock
the funds that we need for that General
day-to-day things like paying our staff
to stay late and go and put the barriers
up for paying our staff to continue to
monitor the the the worldly Warning
Systems within our our river systems
and water systems for continuously
monitoring our uh our sewer Network and
our water Network to make sure that you
the best possible outcome is going to
happen for our community when it comes
to those things so hopefully uh with a
quick letter off to our state member and
then taking that to the New South Wales
government that we'll get some financial
assistance in that do I have a second I
thanks councelor Norris and you'd like
to speak to it thank you exceptionally
briefly May Finley uh thank you for
bringing this m minute as you know from
the email I sent last night after
reading the press release from the New
South Wales government about the
emergency assistance we got ex we got
hit exceptionally hard in Ward one know
others around the community did as well
and uh it would be really nice if we
could get those funds straight away
thank you yeah thank you any other
counselor wish to speak to the
motion no I'll put the motion are there
any dissenting
voices there being none then that is
carried thank
you so councilors that brings us to
deputations and presentations there are
a number of deputations this evening and
I'm going to go with the F the first one
that's on the list Kylie if you'd like
to come forward please Kylie take the
shortcut through the senta here
please so Kylie Knight is here this
afternoon who wishes to address the
meeting to speak against CL
2486 which is the proposed local
character planning proposal for the sh
Haven Le of 2014 thank you and welcome
thanks hi I'm Kylie and most of
you who know me will know my quirks and
for those people who don't know me hello
and and uh just bear with me if I need a
bit of time to organize what it is I'm
saying it might come around as a
little bit circular but please bear with
me
I'm speaking against the motion
because quite frankly I don't
understand it I don't have the
information that I need to make a good
decision so I don't know what to
think of it so that's why I'm here
I'm going to try and explain my
understanding of this motion is that you
want to prepare a planning proposal to
elevate the importance of town character
in assessing a DA in the Shell
Haven uh you hope that this will provide
council with more agency about strategic
planning
decisions and that you want to use this
planning instrent as a means of
reviewing Town character across the city
and do some Heritage investigations at
the same
time until you can do this you're
proposing that that you stick with the
character assessments that were
developed through the Robert's Day
Report have I got this right is you're
going very well
okay so let me backtrack there was a
report to the ordinary meeting on the
28th of August and it confirms several
strategic planning priorities including
managing local and neighborhood
character increasing the supply of
affordable housing and contemporary
planning controls for narrow City Center
and River Riverfront
Precinct by way of community engagement
this report States the project plan is
an internal tool to manage council's
strategic land use planning work effort
over the next 2 or 4 years and that
adequate Community consultation has been
derived from other
sources this is likewise reflected
when you look at council's 2023 advocacy
projects perspectives
and it advocates for 200 million over 4
years for social and affordable housing
6 and a half uh 650 OD th000 for crisis
and transitional housing and 200,000
windfall for badary urban planning or
renewal
planning it also notes the financial
implications of preparing a new planning
scheme including the need for Council to
subsequently resist res resolving to
review parts of the LEP and DCP as they
pertain to specific localities on an
individual basis the work described in
this report will we best achieved as a
strategic whole rather than focusing on
individual town and Villages ahead of
time and again just flipping to the
next bit chapter N5 of council's DCP
2014 is for the bomaderry town center
and it was adopted on the 14th of
October 2014 and amended 23 June
2015 however a report from the
agenda of development and
environment committee on the 7th of
September 21 suggests it's largely based
on an earlier DCP that was originally
adopted back in
1985 so that's pretty
old it's similarly doesn't reflect
council's position on affordable housing
or the land that was donated to Southern
Cross Community Housing
houses for its Kam Street affordable
housing
development
although some lots have been rezoned
from mixed use to R3 but I can't locate
any records of when or
why anyway there have been nerous
requests for planning variations in
Bader especially those asking for height
variations from the 11 meter restriction
some recent examples is clear Brothers
Silo the manildra ethanol expansion
and the 30 m Opus 5G Tower that's going
to be at the end of our Main
Street that decision was made under
delegated authority on the day the A C
mobile infrastructure report was
released indeed in its case for
modification 26 Manila actually argues
that a contravention of zoning height
restrictions is permissible giving
council's own planning restrictions have
been abandoned for the shell Haven
starches Factory site and is reason for
non-compliance with SLP
2014 so it's quite annoying that because
it does impact on the visual amenity
for locals and and tends to impose
itself upon the town please bear with me
I'm getting there actually Kye just take
a little breath for a moment and I'll
seek an extension for you thank you
counselor L seconded by counselor Copley
any dissenting voices they're being
known then that is carried thank you
thank you yeah so it's annoying
because it does impact the amenity for
locals and uh imposes itself quite
heavily across the town still our
community tries to hold on to its
character with its murals the books that
are written and the stories that are
told and that brings us to the Robert's
Day
Report uh in 2018 Department of planning
and environment commissioned Robert day
as Enterprise business whatever you
call it to prepare the shell Haven
character assessment report this report
prepared by experts and based on a
consistent approach identifies the exist
existing and potential future desired
character of our towns Villages and
neighborhoods that docent entailed a
docent review of council strategic
planning docents the existing ones
desktop research and a character audit
of 57 key settlements across the shell
Haven they did that in the space of 3
days so if you asse a 7-hour working
day that equates to just over 2 and a
half hours allocated for settlement uh
including driving time to develop a
character of the town in both the
Robert day report and draft shell Haven
growth management strategy uh it's noted
that dpie and their Consultants did not
consult on the docent rather the
process for developing the Bomer Town
character involved the consultant
being driven around by a member of the
local CCB while they took photographs
and listened to historical anecdotes no
members of the indigenous Community
women youth people with a disability or
bus business owners were contacted and
no images of the Bader Children's Home
Samson Cresent or the like made it into
the Robert's Day Report besides their
own Proclamation that place character
must be authentic that is defined by its
people defined by its people and
activities rather than anything else the
opposite of place character is
placelessness which is deres from
homogeny in urban environments a strong
Place character strengthens the
connection between people and the places
that they
share the anyway the outcome for buo was
we're a town that supports Nara uh
with atired CBD and a recommendation to
enhance so I've got a page left
recent developments New South Wales
Department of planning has streamlined
the process for major project assessment
this is open floodgates for many large
developers who as long as they meet
specific planning criteria can have
their applications approved as St level
this is how the West cbar development
has gotten
through on Friday the 5th of April EG
funds management representing Southern
Cross Community Housing submitted a
scoping plan for 196 social and
affordable units at 25 mosil Road
Bader due to its scale this
application is going to be considered uh
State significant development and
assessed under part four division 47 of
the EP uh EP
act this plan states it is intended for
The Yards which is what's been called to
be an equitable Community integrating
Market housing with social and
affordable housing product all within a
cohesive and connected Community the
heart of this community's Village High
Street anchored by the Southern Cross
Community Housing head office and
community service center other key
facilities of the Village High Street
are intended to be seniors living
Medical Center local retail and Serv
services and the future balls club or
similar
facility
sorry Bomer already experiences
greater inequalities than most other
villages in the Shell Haven wealth
inequality education inequality
employment inequality cultural and
health inequalities inequalities of
opportunity influence a list goes on yet
the government now intends to let a
community housing provider build 196
low-income residences in an already
disadvantaged community in close
proximity to multiple fast food outlets
and soon to be super Club do we know
where the social supports for these
people will come from transport for
New South Wales kind of managed to keep
the entrances to Bader in a proud
proud state so he's going to provide
additional support for our teachers and
our police and our drug and alcohol
workers will they come from State R
contributions or will that be diverted
Beyond Bomer into say the na Riverfront
project the one that fails to recognize
that there's two sides of the river and
one of those is in
badary or what sorry is that
it nearly finished that's good or what
about contributions towards foot paaths
and cycleways that are required for New
South bal's future transport plan
affordable housing developments may be
exempt from playing paying a housing and
productivity payment which replaces the
sick so how do we how do we fund that in
2022 Council strategic working party
confirms several priorities including
managing local and neighborhood
character increasing the supply of
affordable housing and contemporary
planning controls for the narrow City
Center and Riverfront Precinct but it
says nothing about a high density
affordable housing in
Vader so in a way it feels like this
recommendation is a little bit too late
and I'm not sure if it will provide any
measure of relief to compounding the
disadvantage in
Bomer the character Avail the
assessment available to us is
shallow the the plan for Bomer CBD is
well and truly out of dat the floodgates
for infield development have been thrown
wide open and big business will continue
to break the rules because that's what
they've been let do then again I could
be wrong because I'm not a PL town
planner
sorry thanks Kylie any questions to
Kylie this
evening none thank thank you very much
Katherine Shields can you come and join
us please Katherine's here this
evening just got a small point of order
yes Council Watson has raised a couple
of issues with the sound quality
coming through uh he said that he can't
hear anything that's being said that
it's not coming through very clearly
and I thought i' just raised that matter
so it could be addressed okay thank you
so I'll get Katherine to come to the
Lector councelor Watson can I get a
sound check from you that I can hear
you yes the sound Madame mayor is
garbled coming from your end you're over
modulating enormously and you're getting
a sort of a double feed coming from the
room microphone and the individual
microphones I couldn't understand the
word of the Deputy or whoever it was
speaking and I struggle to hear every
second word just s okay thank
you so Brendan's heard that and yeah
they'll deal with what they can deal
with at their end thanks
counselor hi Catherine hi Manda how are
you how are welcome good Catherine's
here everyone to speak on
2488 which is the propos submission to
the New South Wales government's
discussion paper on short-term and
long-term rental
accommodation thanks very much Madame
mayor uh counselors and members of the
public I want you all to think about
this report or this
situation from the perspective of living
in the Shell
Haven
I it occurred to me when I was looking
when we were singing the National Anthem
how beautiful this area is and how many
of us who don't come from here moved
here because we were first visitors to
the area that certainly was the case for
me when we moved here over 20 years
ago what we want to do is talk
about how we respond to the short-term
rental
industry review that state government
is is currently looking
at because it's a different story in the
metropolitan regions of Sydney it's a
different story you know in the Central
West it's a different story on the
Central Coast let's talk about how it is
important to us in the Shell
Haven so Astra is the Australia New
Zealand short-term rental
Association and for my sins I'm now on
the
board so I'm coming I'm speaking to
today as a board member but also as a
local operator and a local
resident so we support and we represent
the mom and dad investors who own
short-term rental properties in this
area the vast majority of of them are
single property single investment owner
Mom and Dad investors they're not
necessarily highflying uh wealthy people
from Sydney which I think a lot of
people automatically asse they are a
lot of them are just normal people who
have saved for their retirement and
their dream has been to have you know
that beach house or that Country Cottage
that they can retire
to
now the H the housing crisis is
incredibly serious but I don't know how
we found ourselves in the middle of
it the
all I can ask today is that the
councilors when they think about how
they're going to support this motion
think about do we have enough uh
evidence-based reasoning for some of the
points that were made in the
report
so first up is we we don't actually know
the exact number it changes uh every
week but there's something like
3,634 non-hosted short-term rental
dwellings in the Shell Haven which is
around 6% of the total
dwellings okay we have to differenti
first of all which isn't in the report
between hosted and non-hosted short-term
rentals so the host hosted rentals are
the ones where the host rents out a
bedroom or a granny flat or a cottage on
their farm so these these
particular uh properties should not be
in the discussion because they will not
be returned to the long-term rental
market under any circstances because
they are the principal place of
residence for the hosts what we need to
establish early on in the report is what
the number of non-hosted short-term
rental properties is and cor I don't
know whether you have a recent figure
but as I understand now that New
South Wales has a registration process
the state government knows exactly what
that number is uh on a weekly basis and
I thought it was available to the lgas
so if it would
it should be something that's
included up
front so the other thing that makes the
sh Haven different is that we don't have
a lot of hotels or motels or Resorts we
have a few Caravan Parks but for the
last 100 years the main source of
accommodation for visitors has been the
Holiday
House Catherine can you help for a sec
can I get an extension please for
Catherine and thank you coun C second by
councel Norris any dissenting voices
there being none than that is carried
thank
you and the reason for that is that
people can travel I mean there's
probably no one in this room who hasn't
stayed in the short-term rental they're
very popular with families people can
bring their pets they can bring their
extended family stay with
friends it and it is a really
important part of our visitor economy
here in the sh Haven it is the by far
the biggest accommodation sector so we
need to be very
careful that we are not throwing the
baby out with the bath water with
this despite the political Point
scoring and scapegoating that's going on
in by polit politicians on either side
of the aisle it is very important for
the sh Haven that we understand that
we're not going to [ __ ] what is one
of the biggest industries in our in our
area particularly for the smaller towns
and Villages which don't have really
anything else going on but
tourism so the other important Point
that's not mentioned in the report is
that
39% of all stays are actually
non-leisure so they're corporate they're
emergency housing their people staying
at getting procedures done at the
hospital they're people coming to to the
area for all kinds of reasons and for
this we need to be very careful that
we're not you
know curtailing that sort of
accommodation in in my own case my
two biggest frequent flyers have been uh
local doctors well visiting doctors the
intensive care specialist and the uh and
a hand surgeon
so without short-term rentals people
like that don't have somewhere to stay
and the reason why they like to stay in
a short-term rental is because they've
got somewhere that resembles a home
they've got room to move they can cook
they can have their family visit them
and stay with them and they can bring
their
pets okay also mentioned in the report
is the census data from
2021 I don't still don't understand why
this is is continually brought up
because if we say worth case scenario
that there were
4,000 uh holiday rentals which we still
don't know what the exact number is it
still means that there's 8,000 odd other
properties that were vacant on the
census night and we know that that a lot
of the short-term rentals were actually
occupied because we had big construction
projects like the narrow bridge the
highway there were essential workers
for health care and all kinds of
visitors actually staying in short-term
rentals not to mention the number of
people who sneakily or otherwise came
down from Sydney and and camped out in
their beach
houses now Astra does not accept the
severe
regulation uh changes that some people
are exposing espousing because it is uh
really unfair I mean there are really
not that many if it's if it is as much
as 6% of the total housing stock in this
area it is not going to solve the
short-term rental crisis the other
reason is because a lot of these
properties are not suitable for
affordable housing by a long shot a lot
of them are high-end medi to
highend if they went back into the
long-term rental market they would be
unaffordable for most people and also uh
when we we surveyed our members in by
and Bay 96% of them said they would not
be going to the long-term rental market
under any circstances and that's
because they use them themselves and
that is the main
point and just as an exercise I
I did a little bit of research today
on the number of short-term rentals
there are in the narrow Bomer area which
is our main urban area where you would
expect to find the most affordable
housing and where if there were too many
holiday rentals it would be an issue
well as you can see the ones uh with the
pink circle are hosted so they're rooms
in people's houses or granny flats and
the blue ones are the non-hosted and
guess what there's two of them in the
whole
area so I don't think anyone could say
and I I zoomed in on on the CBD of Nara
and there's two there that are actually
Quest Apartments that are list on the
platform Catherine that's almost 10
minutes can you wrap up please I'll wrap
up thank you okay that's just a little
insight to sort of prove that it's not a
problem in the main area where there
need to be uh houses close to
services
so we'll send this around to and
there's been a you all would have
received an email from from our CEO
but the thing that we'd like to ask is
that you go for option number two
which is to seek more information we
feel like the report is not quite there
yet there's been very little
consultation with the industry and it is
a very complex industry there are all
kinds of different operators and we need
to I guess consult more with the
council to make sure there is a
thorough and fair investigation of this
issue please work with us thank you
thank you Katherine I'll just check with
the councilors are there any questions
councelor Darth and then councelor
Norris hi thanks for your deputation
could you just explain to me if most
of you the the research that you've done
You' found that there are most of the
homes are in the sort of tourist areas
away from our services how then do
the 39% of uh non-
people find that having to travel
from hamlets into maybe their place of
work in the middle of Nara there must be
unregistered homes in Nara that are
being used for this purpose well no
because that's you've seen a snapshot of
the Airbnb situation one of the
doctors who stayed with me actually
stayed with stayed in my house at
Caron because uh she she preferred to
stay on the beach so she could you know
walk the dog along the beach at night
I have one short-term rental which is
one of the blue ones one of the two blue
ones in the Nar CBD that is flat out
with doctors Health Care contractors
that sort of thing well you did you did
Leist 39% of people are non leure
visitors yeah and yet most of our
holiday sdra rentals are Co Ledges
they are not necessarily working in Nara
they might be working out at uh you know
one of the fence areas in Jervis Bay for
example they might be working in alad
Dolla I mean it's it they're not all in
the narrow CBD are any of these
properties used for rooming as in
renting out the rooms individually they
are one well the ones that are on this
on that particular example yes went out
one room and is that becoming something
do you think that's something that's
going to become more popular in the area
for higher income I have no idea yeah
obviously the people that are are
renting out a spare room are doing it to
help pay their mortgage yeah this is
whole houses being rented out room by
room oh no I'm not aware of any of those
in the area I mean if anyone maybe I
don't just a piece of advice Guardian
put a article out today about rooming
and it seems like it's going to be the
next horrible thing to take our
accommodation away well it's it is the
thing in America yeah yeah all right
thanks very much okay thank you counc
Norris for your deputation you
mentioned the number changes every week
is there a trend up or down as to which
way that's going you'd have to ask
the tourism office or uh state
government cuz I'm not I I'm not privy
to the actual figures on a weekly basis
I thought the council was but but the
some of the bigger property managers are
saying that they've had an attrition of
around 133% so they've lost
houses and bookings are down 20 to
30% in the area because of the cost of
living crisis thank you councilor
Wells thank you Catherine for your
aidite
presentation am I right in concluding
that you're arguing that the area where
shortterm affordable or long-term
affordable accommodation is most needed
is in the narrow Bomer area and the
isn't a problem in that area that's
exactly what I said I mean I'm no expert
on on affordable housing but I would
asse that placing affordable housing
near facilities and services and schools
is the ideal and certainly that would
include the Bomer Nara urban area and as
you can see because it's not really a
tourist area it's the short-term
rental housing there is very minor so
the areas where there is significant
short-term rental
accommodation in your view would tend to
be out on the coasts and coastal towns
and Villages and the attractive tourism
areas is that correct definitely there
you know most of the small villages and
even the bigger towns on the coast were
built by holiday makers so if you go to
any town like bendalong carang uh even
kangaroo Valley a lot of the housing was
built built by people with you know
amateur Builders as you know with some
of those old fibos they were pretty
badly built but they were built as
Holiday Homes so the U the renting of
those homes out on the coast for
long-term affordable accommodation is
simply a pipe dream is that
right look I only know from from having
a lot of experience in places like U
kalala and carong is that it's a long
way the bus services there are
intermittent if you have a single mother
with a couple of kids and you're living
at carang or kalala it's a lot of
driving to to take them to after school
activities to you know parties that type
of thing or even to appointments in
in town it's very expensive for petrol
so for someone on a limited income
supporting children it's really
uh impractical to be living somewhere
like that so in a nutshell your argent
is largely that this is interference
with the
market interference with yeah if if you
I we have a real estate agent in in the
audience tonight and the thing that I
hear from from the leading ones is that
market forces
largely sort these problems out and
there was a boom in the short-term
rental investment during the pandemic
because everyone wanted to get out of
the Cities yep but now it's falling
off because the interest rates of are
really hurting people and those that
came into it for the probably you know
the wrong reasons are quickly going we
going to be the people who who leave it
first yeah and we're seeing that and
many of those homes the owners came down
here and in fact have relocated from
Sydney to the sh Haven market now that's
another issue in in towns like Kang
which I I know well there's a lot of
uh mainly sort of retirees semi-
retirees who have moved more or less
permanently to the town and they and
because of the Advent of the sewage
being put on and the internet being
pretty good they can now work remotely
and of course the the pandemic changed
everything about remote
working
are there any further questions
councilors Noone thank you Catherine
thank you oh hang on councelor D's got a
just one more just I'm the w three
counselor so alala Molly M narrow W
those sorts of places which are close to
your services they are close to the
schools they are close to whatever
public transport we can offer or
somebody can offer which isn't much
but they're close to everything we in
2020 had a 3% long-term rental
availability for our residents do you
know any figures off the top of your
head for the the lower end of shl Haven
in in the St and what's available
now you mean for because it's close
because our in W 3 because our
suburbs that are on the beaches are
actually still close to Services we're
finding that there are no long-term
rentals available able at any reasonable
price whereas in if you're talking about
the hamlets that are sort of off and
away from their services down in in ward
3 we're close to services and our
availability is very limited that's a
really good question and it is complex I
think the answer to that is complex and
I don't have any figures to hand but
we've also seen the influx of people
moving from from Sydney and CRA to towns
like the alala
area and what often happens is they move
there and come December when it starts
being the peak of the tourism season
there's lots of cars lots of activity
and they don't like it so they're
probably the people in your ear saying
well now that I live here I don't want
any tourists yeah but I think you will
find lot of locals like that too but
but I think you'll find that a lot of
small businesses will be uh really
pretty miserable if tourism is curtailed
in your area a lot of it used to be a
lot more seasonal in places like Aladar
and and Milton for example and now
Milton is booming because of increased
visitation all year round and you know I
think there's lots of reasons why rental
has gone down but how much affordable
housing has a government built down
there lately well none in Milton but in
alala yeah no I'm hearing you I'd like
to talk to you more about am I allowed
to you can take that offline and we'll
let Catherine go and we'll get on to the
next grab her details later thank you
thanks M thank you can I have
Sam quick and R1 apps come down
please so counselors this is in regards
to CL
24943 the development application da
23856 for 408 bunkers Hill Road Baron
gar
you'll all have received a written
deputation from Mr Gregory St scarf and
also some other correspondents that's
been in your inbox forth with but this
afternoon Sam quick and aan ups are here
to speak against the U the
resolution thank you thanks thanks
Amanda hi counselors my name is Sam
quick and my family has worked and lived
on the on a cattle farm at the end of
bunkers Hill Road for over 50 years
I will try my best to provide a clear
concise
history and a more balanced
assessment detailing the reasons why we
believe this application should be
refused firstly the building has been
mischaracterized as a dwelling and seems
designed primar to host large functions
and
conferences my neighbor I and apps will
with your permission to extend and
detail the three other reasons that the
application should not be approved by
the Council or the LC these are as
follows the development is not in the
public interest the site use is not
consistent with the ru1 zoning and no
dwelling entitlement currently exists on
this
landlock in addition we have provided an
advice prepared by LC Barr Justin Doyle
who has followed the case for the last
four years uh Justin previously provided
that advice the detail the case Laur and
why the function Center application
would also be refused by the
Lac in this case development creep has
has uh created a site with a complete
complex planning history involving
unlawful construction and occupation a
site with culative adverse impacts
from ever increasing bed and visitor
numbers there is a repeated pattern of
unlawful Behavior which has been ongoing
for over a
decade just take one
example the building on the property
known as
ferar the the owner gained approval
to build a one bedroom Tous cabin in
201 2015 this approval was subsequently
modified to a two bedroom cabin the
applic applicant then proceeded to
construct a four-bedroom dwelling with a
Skilling roof instead of a pitch trof
totally different as seen in the slide
the dwelling Ferndale is currently
advertised as tourist accommodation on
the owners website currently there are
five unlawfully constructed and occupied
buildings on the site without occupation
certificates and we put together a
smary table on this topic which uh
We've provided to council to assist them
in unraveling this
web this application seems to make use
of another illegally built function
structure sorry this time from the
approval of horse stables and uh
Machinery shed a function Center was
then built 30% larger than approved at
470 M with taking up to 250 guests this
building was refused by Council and the
LEC as some of you may recall in the
chamber all the reassurances in the
world mean like nothing to the new
owners who are int on maximizing the
yield of the new tourist Resort as they
highlighted in a feature article in the
financial review a couple of years ago I
think the terminat was carve off carve
off the asset the primary production
features of the land such as equin
therapy or raising beef cattle all long
faded into the background let's have a
closer look at the floor plan in
questioning how it could be fitted out
as an 8-bedroom hotel with functioning
Conference Center there's a 200 square
met dining hall with 3 meter cath seven
sorry 7 meter cath High cathedral
ceilings the the room though called an
al fresco Breezeway is in fact a fully
enclosed Hall capable of seating and
feeding 128 guests which you can see on
the uh on the layout plan that we've
provided this flexible function room has
an open planed kitchen some three times
larger than the main kitchen is serviced
by four double fridges three double
sinks three separate cooking areas
there's enough bench space to fit all
the previous items that were included in
the refuse function Center commercial
kitchen with 16 cubic M of internal
Refrigeration a space a dry pantry is
strategically jutting out into the
dining hall located of the building
located over the top of the as built bar
labeled arches in the function Center
advertising material there's a cell door
with wine tasting room and a
spitune there are eight identical
self-contained bedrooms of 36 sare M
each with on Suites and uh and studies
there's 17 showers there's laundry with
separate access for other Resort guests
a gym a sauna which are also accessible
for other guest St in the arit cabins
and a store room that can be converted
to a disabled toilet for which it's
already been
plbed the building main distribution
board and electrical meter proudly sits
next to the TV of the main Lounge room
with enough space allocated for one two
seater
couch I can just take a a breath for
a second sorry Sam Nathan's over there
and let me just thank you councelor
Copley second by councelor Kotlash any
descent that there's an extension that
being done and that is carried thank you
sir sorry I'll passo I ass but I ask
anyone in this room who has ever seen a
design for a large house with eight
identical bedrooms with on Suites
without a master bedroom his main dining
and living room with a Southern aspect
into an earth Bank a house without a
garage that has a room of 200 sare M and
a living room of
20 and with the Main Kitchen phasing the
back of house driveway this design is
more suited than
1950s it's a fast that councilors are
being expected to swallow this type of
rubbish it's indisputable that the
primary driver of this design is for the
building to be utilized as a hotel and a
function
Center and i' now like Arn just be
and chicken run through the other three
reasons why I think you should all uh
refuse this
application thank you good evening
everyone I'd like to emphasize here at
the outset that on the whole we really
are pretty laidback people if it doesn't
impact us and it's within the law we
honestly don't care what people do on
their own property that's their own
business it's not our concern however
what is our concern is Our Family Safety
and amenity when something threatens
this I feel it's my duty to speak up in
our view this development most certainly
does present a threat to our family
safety and amenity as well as that of
the wider
Community as you've heard this
application said to be for a dwelling
house has obvious capability to be used
for short-term tourist accommodation and
large functions and in these likely
incarnations this development will carry
with it all the associated safety
risks bunkers Hill Road is a catalog of
assorted risks you name the risk we've
probably got it and as Council must know
only too well residents have been
severely impacted by the lands slip
damage which occurred back in
2022 there really could be no clearer
illustration of the precarious nature of
the access to this area and the unwisdom
of any development which increases the
vole of traffic and the number of
unfamiliar visitors just to emphasize
this points a photo of the road
conditions uh just on
Saturday so on one side there's fresh
subsidence at one of the land slip sites
incidentally just outside gate of the
subject uh development site and on the
other side typical flooding on the
causeway uh I'll also mention that some
months back a tourist was involved in a
horrific head-on collision on the blind
corner of Bunker Hill paath with a
motorcyclist there have been many more
emergency incidents over the years
including the occasion in this photo
when the sces assisted by residents were
called upon to reprovision some 20
baranka guests including young children
Stranded by flood waters for some days
following on from this another reason to
refuse this application is that the site
use viewed as a whole is no longer
consistent with the objectives of ru1
zoning the context of this development
as we've described indicates that normal
assessment processes shouldn't apply in
this case as the application can't be
viewed in isolation
I'd ask you to consider the fact that
adding the current application the site
can accommodate 46 people across 23
bedrooms and has space that can
accommodate some 120 people for
functions this type of development is
surely more akin to a tourist Resort and
the rural use seems no longer to be the
dominant activity on the site which is
inconsistent with State
legislation our final reason for refusal
is that the property doesn't have a
dwelling entitlement there are two four
bedroom houses already constructed
without approval these houses among
others meet the legal definition of a
dwelling in the LEP an additional
dwelling cannot legally be
approved I've heard some people saying
that Council cannot now afford to refuse
contentious applications due to the
financial risk of LEC challenges and I
do have some sympathy with the invidious
position that Council finds itself in
but I would ask you to seriously
consider what then is the price of
acceptance what are the long-term
consequences of this kind of thinking
from a financial planning and moral
perspective if Council would like to
encourage Sydney developers coming to
the sh Haven and building tourist
Resorts without approval on Prime rural
land of dangerous mountain roads then
they should rubber stamp this as the
history of the application provides a
clear approval pathway can a dollar
value be put on the sh Haven council's
reput as an organization and what is the
price which will inevitably paid by
Baron Gary residents and The Wider sh
Haven LGA this seems like a fork in the
road type of decision you've seen the
details of the unlawful activity on the
development site and you have in front
of you in black and white some of the
well supported legal reasons to to
refuse this we really hope you'll take
what we see as being the right path
thank you for your time thank you can I
get you both to stay there for a moment
while I check in for some questions coun
C are there any questions to Sam or aen
this
evening yeah thanks councelor
gray thanks Sam and alen my question is
to the usage and you've outlined so well
how this is cascaded over the culative
impact into something that's a radical
departure from what was there 10 years
ago are there still cows I mean is there
agriculture on this land
probably answer that the actual uh
primary used previously was an eoin
education center which you might all
know but that has been uh proposed to
be surrendered I I hear so I think
there's been a bit of a turnaround in
the primary use and I've noticed a lot
of cattle actually that have suddenly
appeared so I think there's been a
change in in the primary primary use
because that use has changed so there
is it is part of a few other land
loocks which will enable that but
realistically when you have look at
sewage disposal fields and things like
that there isn't there much land left to
run the primary use and that's that's
the the problem we have with the sdra
that the things that attract people to
these areas is what engulfs them with
the short-term accommodation and then
changes the character of the rural area
and then you don't have the the
attraction that people have come to see
m
and probably my last question goes to
the road which up until yesterday I
wasn't aware of how it had deteriorated
and so therefore access if I understand
it to this property is by walking only
at the moment yeah that's that's correct
so there's no vehicular access via
the road at
least thank
you councilor Wells
report that uh there is or there isn't a
dwelling entitlement attaching to the
application I think that's more useful
in the debate counselor yeah we'll deal
with that then thank you we'll move on
then we'll just give him a moment to
take that on notice and then come
back can
you yeah I think it's more useful during
the debate to have that response that's
okay my other questions will go to the
extinguishment of the existing Das and
whether uh defer so councelor well do
your questions need to be to the to
the depues this evening yes I'm just put
notice as to what those questions are
going to be Madame May thank you
understood thank you councelor Norris
thank you thank you Sam and I for your
reputation just being abundantly clear
because I want this to as clear as day
the photos you provided in our packing
in your deputation from Saturday that is
the state of the road as we see it in
the photos that's correct actually oh
say something no that state of the that
state of the road if we want to go back
to that Nathan the roads actually
dropped another half a meter
overnight there's no uh there's no
display of any construction storm
waterer management by the contractor and
it's there's they've been notified
about that a few times but
yeah it's continuing to slip away
there's storm waterm coming in right now
that's undermining the
road the only thing that's different
council noris is the flooding at the
bottom of the road which has subsided a
little Oh you mean the the causeway the
causeway oh no the causeway is good now
yeah no that's gone down that's that
always Peaks we've lived there for you
know we understand how to deal with that
it's just when visitors come they're not
sure about it they don't know where the
edge of the road is there's no markers
there and they end up over the edge we
could have just as easily found another
three or four photos of cars in the side
of the the creek and you just don't
understand that you got to wait for the
peak and just sit tight and you
know have some tin food if it goes on
for a couple couple of
days never drive through flood waters
thank you all right counselors are
there any other questions to Arn or Sam
and any other questions that need to be
asked to the director can be dealt
with during the debate is that we
good great thank you both and thank you
Nathan thank you all for being
here so councilors that brings us to the
call over of the business paper sorry
about before you move on to that I
just want was wondering if you would
mine and I'm trying to demonstrate
this as I do it the advice you
provided to me earlier around
speaking into the microphones I've had a
couple people message me to say that
they're struggling over the live stream
to hear correctly I think a lot of it
has to do with projecting into the
microphone even in this chamber I'm
struggling he colleagues as well this
bit of an echo might be where I'm
sitting particularly I talk a little bit
bit here Council Wells and Council
Norris before but yeah just possibly
all colleagues can do what I'm doing and
just try to make sure they're speaking
directly into the microphone and even if
you if you stand your microphone up yeah
and speak to it y you should be picked
up you should be picked up well cuz
they're very sensitive yeah it's just
was obiously sound ofice and I just
wanted to make sure that others are yeah
but that's it project to the microphone
and not to your chest great all right so
we now have the call over of the
business paper
councilors in the first section we
have the city
Futures we have the proposed local
character planning proposal which
Kylie Knight spoke to us about does
anyone wish to withdraw that
does anyone wish to withdraw the sister
city relationship
report does anyone wish to uh withdraw
the submission on the
St does it
y
yep does anyone wish to withdraw the
land at the council land sale strategy
update at CL
2489
so you're moving the the proposed local
character we're not at that point
councelor you know that we're going back
we're going through the call out of the
business paper councilor L has
indicated he wishes to speak to
that yep that's good we'll do that so
the only piece of business in City
Futures that no one wants to discuss or
debate is the first one which is the
proposed local character planning
proposal do I have a mover for that
please thank you
coun Amendment hang on all right we'll
pull it out and I'll put it with
councelor Kristen and we'll come back
and we'll deal with that next I've got
the city services reports which are the
tender reports for the alad dala Harbor
Boardwalk the disposal of council land
at Cberland Avenue that which has got
a less than significant non- peun
declaration by councilor cot lash on it
and the birthing facility at alad Dolla
and they're dealt with primarily in
the closed business papers does anyone
wish to pull it talk about anything in
the open session and if not can I have a
mover for all hang
on2 92 thank you councilor
kiter so can I have a move then for 90
and 91 thank you councelor Wells
seconded by counselor Christen are there
any desent
voices if not the following items are
moved unanimously CL 2490 the tender
report rftt 7269 6E the construction of
the alala harbor Boardwalk stages 3 to 5
and the harbor side car park at stage
six CL 2491 the proposed disposal of
council land at part 24 Cberland
Avenue South
narrow we'll pull out Baron Gary at
bunkers Hill and final one will be the
notice of motion okay so we'll go back
then councilors to the beginning of the
paper councelor Kristen that item is
with you to move the Le changes for
local character thank you yeah Madam
mayor thank I'd like Prim primarily to
thank the staff for the efforts they put
into developing this and to acknowledge
that it's a uh it's it's a set of
activities that provide us an interim
position as we move forward to develop
our management of character to a
greater level of detail so noting the
the input from the deputy thank you for
that and that the uh the Robert Day
Report is not you know to the depth
and and uh Insight which we would all
like for all those towns and Villages
but it gives us it does actually give us
a starting point and that will be
addressed and and not to be taken as the
final the final product in that space
right do I have a second for that thank
you councilor
Wells right can I have your Amendment
now
please your representations from the
Barry Community For which is of course
Council CCB for that Township they would
like to have Barry recognized in three
it paragraph three a new item D Barry
Township I've consulted with the staff
on the matter and they have in agreement
of its inclusion thank thank you and is
that do you have an amendment that's
gone to staff Council Wells is that with
see your minutes or not no it's
not
okay can someone give me the words of
the amendment I can't have an amendment
with no words the amendment is D Berry
Township in paragraphs
three ABC D Berry Township thank you
right and that's it yep great
okay let me just check in with the Mover
does the Mover yeah does the Mover
accept the amendment to include Barry
Township ask question
start yes please thank you yeah i' just
like to ask planning
staff if the that part of those
investigations is actually included
elsewhere in the strategic planning
do we in other words do we need to
include it
here thank you so I go through to Mr
Clark thank you Mr
Clark through the chair councelor as
as you're obviously already aware
Council already has done a fair bit of
work in Berry and continues to do a fair
bit of work in Berry so there is
scope within that piece of work uh to to
I guess for council at that point to to
resolve to do more so that is one
option but certainly if you also want to
belt and Brace it and and and add it to
this recommendation as well that also
puts it on the radar can I also note
though whil we've got those four areas
listed we've quite clearly said to
you that is subject to budget allocation
Heritage work is quite specific we don't
have a Heritage resource on staff
so if we do that work in the future
it will require the appropriate budget
allocation thank you councilor Kristen
yeah I accept that okay so the amendment
has been accepted the motion has been
seconded by councelor Wells the next
speaker on the list is councelor
L thanks Madame mayor just wanted to
comment very briefly and uh also commend
the staff for this work and the
communities which have worked hard over
the years to achieve this recognition of
the importance of character but I did
just want to thank Kye and I very
much for presentation tonight I think
Kylie speaks to a a serious issue as
well which is around I guess the
forgotten villages in our communities as
well that sometimes do get overlooked in
terms of underneath of better planning
outcomes for car to be recognized as
well uh where you see developments
occurring which have an impact on the
amenity of of residents there so I think
it was very timely for Kylie to take the
opportunity to address this on behalf of
the community of badary community that I
certainly know very well as a resident
of badary uh so yeah I just wanted to
call it out and thank her very much for
attending tonight and sharing those
thoughts with us thank you any further
discussion councilors
there being none I'll put the
recommendation are there any dissenting
voices there being none then the motion
is carried thank you councelor Wells the
next one's with you the sister city
relationship The Way Forward page seven
Madam mayor in the interest of time I
was wondering whether you'd want to do
the two other deputations first and
introduce this after that I think that
we can just be disciplined councelor
Wells and get on with it thank you so
much Madam May uh I've moved an
amendment to the recommendation Madam
where which I forwarded to CL minutes uh
and in doing so I must confess that in
my view the report is strange if not
somewhat a little bizarre or unusual uh
my reading of the email string between
the city of F's Foreign Affairs office
and charh Haven city council goes to
rekindling a 23y old relationship with a
city of about 10 million people on the
east coast of China immediately opposite
uh Taiwan
in fact F was the city from which CH I
departed China and established
Taiwan uh they' they have come back to
us uh with a request that they visit us
in the next couple of months and I'll
come to the uh constiution of the visit
shortly uh in council's exchanges with
fer uh they've responded to our requests
through the email chain that they would
like to give us a reasonable time to
visit them and they put forward four
Expos and fairs that we might consider
uh in the years
ahead uh for 8 million people have been
major makers and
Traders for the for the nation of China
over the centuries in fact in
1427 the largest trade art Mar ever to
leave port in the world departed from
fow and found its way across Southeast
daysia across to India uh and Sri
Lanka and the report goes on to say
however but we're broke and we can't
afford the 50,000 to fund a visit and
that it's not in the develop delivery
plan or operational
plan the point is we're not talking
about us visiting them they're talking
about them visiting us and that won't
cost Council a cent other than perhaps a
meal hosted by the mayor for the
delegation led by Mr Jang
Jong uh who is the chairman of fush
house people's Congress a position that
was occupied over a decade ago by a man
called ziling ping who is C currently
president of of
China
so I suggest to us that we rekindle the
relationship uh and I do confess that
the relationship between China and
Australia has been somewhat frosty in
the last half a decade brought on by the
discovery of Co spreading out of out of
a Township in China across the world and
causing worldwide Havoc a
catastrophe uh and China's forward
stance in the South China Sea uh and and
it's imposition of trade impediment on
Australia's trade but we would have
noted that in the last half a dozen
months or so the relationship is thoring
out uh make no mistake
counselors China Chinese people think
about the world in two ways they think
about the world
strategically and they think about the
world long term they do so because they
don't have threee four year and 5e
election
Cycles the Chinese government is there
for as long as the People's Republic of
China communist party chooses to be
there
so the approach to Chara Haven at this
time is no coincidence
I would suggest that cities across China
are touching base with their counterpart
councils across Australia to rekindle
the relationships that have been frosted
over in the last half a dozen years and
I think it would be a Pity if council
did not respond to those aures in a
welcoming
manner uh did anybody check out the
department of Foreign Affairs and trade
about what China's doing might in terms
of
rekindling rekindling sister city
relationships I suspect
not there's a concept in China called
face I looked it up in the dictionary
today and my dictionary does indeed
recognize face in the way the Chinese
use it it's a sign of mutual care and
respect and impacting that face will in
the Chinese mind cause great hiliation
uh and I think rejecting an orature to
visit us at no cost to us will indeed be
seen as a hiliating embarrassment by
our sister city
friends we're not up to the 50,000 ,000
at the moment we're up to welcoming them
and showing them our city that's time
councilor
Wells councelor El moves an extension
councelor Copley seconds that is there
consent from that councilor
was sort of thank you councilor Wells
thank you see the visiting delegation
pays their own way just on the three
occasions that I visited for as part of
shen city council delegations I paid my
own way Council didn't put any money
into my trip I paid my own aairs and
accommodation and everybody that was on
the delegation paid their own way I'm
organized a tool
package I've made some inqu Warriors
around the city's business community and
the show the susex Inland Chamber of
Commerce have expressed particular
interest in hosting the the delegation
as has the Sha Haven Food Network who'd
love to host them we have in our city a
gentleman called Mr William Fu he's a
multiple restaurant owner in Sydney and
an investor in the Shell Haven he he
owns a number of guest houses in
Sussex he is offered to host the
delegation and to what white and D it
while they're here his business in our
city by the way is hosting Chinese tour
groups pardon
me uh inspection of our emerging muscle
industry and a visit to bundon on with
an indigenous cultural experience have
also been suggested to me just in the
last two
days as for us visiting them uh I'd
suggest we don't do that anytime soon
and we communicate to them when they
arrive here one one ground for deferring
a visit at this particular point in time
is that in five months time we'll be
having a sh haen Council election and
they'll be dealing with another Council
potentially another mayor but certainly
other counselors so I would commend the
motion I've put up as an amendment and
that we welcome our friends from for to
visit our city thank you councelor
Watson your hand is raised and I I'm
assing that you're going to second the
motion
thank you Madame mayor
uh I was rather concerned when I saw
this report
because I would have thought that the
staff would have spoken to me about the
actual details before the report was
written there's one inaccuracy in there
that jped out at me and that was that
in the discussion about fou in the
report uh the charlon temple came into
the question the charlon temple had
nothing to do with and he visits the
ship
FIA I would urge
Council not just to walk away from the
sister city relationships between two of
the Cities one was
jamusa and the other one was Fu the the
sister city relationship which was
signed up by Paul Green I'd actually set
it up just before Paul was elected in
Beijing uh that U City ceased to exist
that was absorbed into another Municipal
area so that that one's gone
but with
jamusa that was a sister said
relationship was was set up by Harry
sains in about 19 85 8 884
85 and max Atkins who followed
Harry as mayor he continued that
relationship
and Greg Pullen as well when he was the
economic development officer made a
number of trips
there in 2000 I received a deputation
from a Roman Catholic monk who was an
English teacher based in fuia at the
time and he said that the government
there had expressed an interest with
forming a relationship with shell Haven
because
and to some extent we had the same sort
of U geomorphology in the area were on a
coastal city and he had some knowledge
of the area so following that we we did
receive a deputation from them and
then eventually we formally signed an
agreement in in China in in FIA and I
think I
heard councilor Wells mentioned that the
current Premier of China was in fact a
a miror of fuia at one
stage so there was a lot of effort
put into these now it was done at
minimal cost to Shell Haven Council I
might add any of the trips that I made
to China and there six or seven of
them I paid for my own air fairs and
accommodation as did the other business
people people and Educators that went
with us on run one occasion or two
occasions Ray Clear went with us
Dr Davidson went with us he was
interested in exporting your Pacers to
China the late Jimmy cladis went over
and he set up a wine distribution
operation in China before his untimely
death so there was a fair bit of
exchange of of business activity
starting to occur and it did occur as
early as 1980 because of the
relationship set up by Harris
Hawkins the there was a rubber
Extrusion manufacturer locally he
started importing uh lamp black which
was used in the manufacturer rubber
components from p and not FIA but jamusa
and then in FIA they they Supply a lot
of container to a a local pool
swimming pool provider who provides
equipment and based in Al DOA but Madam
May I'd U sort of urge Council not just
to walk away from this
because this is a time when we need
better relationships between communities
and and the peoples of the planet and
particularly there this bit of a th now
with China following the unfortunate uh
separation that
occurred I think anyone that goes
there will be blown away by the
achievements that have been made in
China F in particular is very proud of
uh the minorities that's the abigal
people that they have in their area and
I'm certain if anyone goes to visit
there you'll have the opportunity of
meeting the minorities that thece
origional habit inhabitants of that area
who M time there
their lifestyle mam mayor I joined with
councilor Wells and but I also extended
to the city of Jus and someone may
consider visiting it this
year Madam mayor because it's now their
40th anniversary of when Harry sain
signed that original
agreement thank you councelor Watson I
have you listed as the
second and the next speaker is councelor
Christen thank you thank you Madame
mayor uh I speak against the
amendment and advise we go with the
initial staff
recommendation I think we're we're
not involved in you know foreign
relations and we have
listed at least five sister cities in
China so I mean if we start picking up
with one sister city in China what about
the other
four how are they going to feel all
right six and I I do really question the
benefit of any of these
it's a different era now if you want
to develop relationships with
individuals companies cities it's all
done you know via video remote and you
get that relationship happening in real
I don't I don't think there's any
benefit to this I don't think we've just
been through a very painful exercise and
I I'm not keen and I don't think any
citizens of the sh Haven will be Keen in
sha Haven spending any money at all on
this and it does cost money because it
will take staff time time it'll take
time to arrange the meetings to have
official letters going backwards and
forwards so although it doesn't appear
to have any you know instant cash value
it takes up staff time and we've got
plenty of other things to look at which
are far more important now so I think
these were a nice idea back in the day
but I think business is done completely
differently now and we can have good
relations with any City that we like in
the world by reaching out to them there
through a number of more uh current
method so i' suggest we go with a staff
recommendation so you're formally
foreshadowing councelor
Kristen yeah if we have to do that yes
thank you any further discussion
councilors no okay do you wish a write a
reply Council
Wells thank you I'll then put it to the
vote and uh councilors will use our
machines
so we're voting for the amendment as put
by councilor
Wells the amendment yes that we retain
the relationship with
fua
okay all votes are
in one not voted so that motion is
successful and I hope that councilors
you'll be looking for a budget whenever
we come to doing
so
okay councelor L the next one's with
you thank you very much Madame mayor
I've through a Amendment to the
minut I'll just wait till that
up so council is we're working on page
12 on the proposed submission to the new
southwes government discussion
paper s just for the benefit of
colleagues Madame mayor so my
Amendment seeks to add a part two to the
motion uh so endorses the submission
going forward I think given the fact
that we've had an extension to put
this submission in I don't I think we're
sort of a very late stage of being able
to amend the submission or have further
time to work on it so I acknowledge that
we do need to get a submission into the
discussion paper but just picking up on
the final point of the deputy's uh
PowerPoint around working with the
sector where we can I think it would
be appropriate for Council to convene a
meeting with representatives from the
association whether that's Katherine
or other Representatives I think
councils would have received some
corresponden this evening just as the
meeting was getting underway from the
chief executive officer aastra so I
think once we had the discussion paper
we can see some of the issues which have
been canvased and an idea of what
direction the government wants to go in
this area I think that' be a good time
for us to engage very closely with the
sector because there are great
opportunities I think for collaboration
and uh cooperation so I just would like
to include that as part two to the
motion to say that we will arrange a
meeting of Representatives fasor once
the discussion paper is released so
you're understanding that we have no
idea when that discussion paper will be
completed and
released y just whenever that happens
it's just a direction for the staff
okay thank you so do I have a second of
for councilor El's
motion thanks councelor Wells councelor
Christen yes thank you madam whilst I
understand councelor L's addition
what I'm wondering about is that it
leaves out all the other
stakeholders and we maybe could then uh
add the part three to uh also engage
with the other stakeholders related to
stas and housing
affordability so capture everyone
yeah can I just ask both of you
counselors Parts two and three what
do you hope to achieve from that and at
what point in time because at the
moment we don't have the the discussion
paper is not hasn't we don't know when
the discussion paper is going to be
finished being discussed it's likely to
not happen within this term of council
so I would actually just suggest that
you take the chains off our staff and
just go either with the staff
recommendation as it is and not load
them up with other meetings that we have
no clue what we want from the outcome
without any real Direction on that cuz
all that's doing is having a meeting for
meeting's sake so can I please have
someone foreshadow or I'll foreshadow
the the original
motion you're sorry councelor gray is
going to foreshadow the original motion
councelor Kristen sorry I just did cut
across you are you happy to withdraw
your Amendment yeah sure y councelor L
are you happy to withdraw your Amendment
stand for another slide Amendment thanks
Madam may I I take your point perhaps
we do away with uh point two and
three and simply ask that we get a
report back from from staff uh with the
smary of the discussion paper and
implications for the sh
Haven uh smary of the of the the
discussion paper implications of the sh
Haven which at that point we can then
provide forther direction to the staff
about any meetings with stakeholders we
want to engage at the time there might
be an opportunity for other stakeholders
to give more deputations right that's
much more much more useful great okay
councilors do we have any dissent is
there any dissent in those two councilor
Wells you've got something to say I'm
not going to disent on this occasion but
I must Express I have serious misgivings
about the direction that government's
taking in relation to the management of
stra its interference with the market
and uh it could be more disruptive to
provision of affordable housing than
assisting it the real problem with
affordable housing is the state
government's abandoned the
field we all agree with that councelor
so I have a motion now that we have a
report back after the submissions are
made and once the uh report's been
released are there any dissenting voices
there being none then the motion is
carried so councilor L the next one is
with you page
29 which is the the first one of the
council's land sales strategy oh thanks
Madam May
I wanted to I just wanted to ask a
question could someone else move uh I
think Council wealth wanted to move the
resolution I look I'll happily move
it I see a second thanks coun thank you
it was really just about the time
frame because we've had uh people
contact us this afternoon there's been
some discussion obviously over social
media about uh some of these p are
land which are not on the table tonight
but I just wanted to get a sense if we
can for you Madame mayor from the
staff uh from uh Miss McCarthy about uh
the timeline for when these other Lots
may come back in that further report
which is to come through so just to I
guess reassure the community about
what's happening tonight and uh what
the next steps are yep okay I'll go to
the CEO for that response thank
you thank you I might ask Cory if you
can provide a response on the uh stages
two and
three
sorry each will be reported back to
Council
in in 12 to 36 months depending on the
investigation some take a lot more
investigation and some will require
rezoning
applications yes thank you councilor
Norris thanks me familyy a question for
pro M McCarthy still we were given a
briefing some time ago when we discussed
this about a website and stuff going up
online is that in the process is that
coming with this recommendation tonight
thank you I'll go to m McCarthy thank
you sorry just to clarify you're
asking about information being online
absolutely that's been working with our
Communications team and it will be ready
to go in the next few days thank you any
any further discussion Council
laws thank you just and just to be clear
just for the community's benefit just
given that these are ones that we have
had contact on so we are not making a
decision tonight on Chis Street Kal
kalala Bay we're not making decision
tonight on McDonald parade Burrow
Lake uh so just obviously because there
has been people that are may be
listening in that have maybe heard
something different that these will
be subject to those investigations and
report yeah I'll just get M McCarthy to
answer that again thank you through you
chair thank you no what you're making a
decision on is what's in category one
that first category anything in Category
2 or three is subject to further
investigation and we'll have a report
back to
council great just on part three so
one two and three madd's way Bomer I
note within the report there was
discussion about selling at some point
uh looking at selling some land to
education in all doar and if we're
going to make that approach to education
can we do that for one two and three M's
way as that's an education facility
currently and is got an alternative
stream for high schoolers in there and
they might be happy to purchase okay so
counselers if there's no more questions
or otherwise on this one I'll put the
motion there's no dissenting voices and
the motion is carried thank
you next one up for discussion councelor
kitner is with you it's it's on page 59
and it's the birthing facility in alad
dala Harbor and I just remind all
counselors that this is the open section
of the report in which we cannot discuss
any of the items that are within any
other confidential items thank you
thanks Madam mayor I'd like to speak
against the recommendation and move
option
two I understand the council's financial
situation I understand Council
responsibilities which we are reminded
about every Financial sustainability
meeting I understand the council's
charter being for the whole Shan City
not just the W one is elected to but
sometimes there is a need for counselors
to be parochial and to find a balance
between their responsibilities to the
council and their responsibilities to
the community clearly this
recommendation creates one such
time representative government
disempowers individuals Community
organizations and the general populace
is rendered impotent unless it acts
collectively as a group as witnessed in
recent times prior to being elected
charlot City councilors like residents
had the voting Power of One in 70,000
and then all they could do was choose a
party member or someone they didn't know
and were unlikely to meet to represent
them after being elected councilors have
the voting Power of One in 13 and the
authority to cast a vote on all issues
presented in council's business papers
residents however are powerless they sit
outside the decision-making for and
rely on elected counselors to give voice
to their opinions in the chamber however
if what is voiced doesn't convince at
least seven of the 13 counselors then
their effort has been for zero if
residents knew this item was on the
agenda and the repercussions of it being
suspended they' be upun Gres the
birthing Marina in alala Harbor can no
longer be seen as a project in isolation
Council combined the proposed alala
birthing Marina with other
infrastructure projects in the attempt
to build community incentivize investors
attract more visitors support business
growth and build the long-term value of
the area for investment by expanding
upgrading and improving the services and
assets available in all
the alala boothing marina project has
become an IND indispensable Link in
activating alala Waterfront and keeping
the township vital and prosperous the
Milton olll Community have been waiting
expectantly since 1993 to see an
activation of the scenic ol dollar
Waterfront Precinct unless Council takes
a decisive action now in progressing the
birthing Marina in alala Harbor the
activation of alala Waterfront could be
suspended for an indeed period of
time not every resident wants an
improved birthing facility but there is
an extremely large number of amiter
fishermen that live visit and utilize
the pring as one of only two safe deep
water ocean access points in the Shell
Haven additionally a vast majority of
residents do want to see an activated
alala Waterfront and the idala birthing
Marina plays a significant part in that
activation there is already an existing
expectation that Council will stand by
its commitments and fulfill its
obligations in this regard rather than
suspending the alala biry marina project
and returning the grant funding to the
government maybe Council should
reprioritize other major capital
projects in the north so that it doesn't
run the risk of disillusioning residents
of the South who will perceive
themselves as being completely abandoned
by Council if this recommendations
approved I am unable to support the
motion has written and I'm moving option
two and seing a
seconder do we have a
seconder no great okay so the mo motion
lapses I'm going to move an alternate
motion and that the point with a
0.5 and the alternate motion be the
original motion that staff have put but
with a point five that says thank to
thank the staff who have worked
tirelessly on this project to get an
appropriate outcome over a sustained
period of
time and I seek a second for that thank
you counselor
gray ah counselors where do I start in
just saying a few words on this what
is what I've just heard from my
colleague is that you know we need to
look to the north to see where the other
projects are that we can you know
readjust in order to be able to afford
the birthing facil facility in allala
Harbor someone who lives in the South
I'd love to see the allala harbor be
complete I'd love to see the alala
skate bar complete but I would also
remind the C the council that's just
risen to support this that in order to
get this project over the line that
approximately 1% of rates in this town
approx timately it's a little bit give
take would need a 3.8% rate rise
which the same councelor did not vote
for and did not support so you know
when this Council went out to the
community and said we want a 32% rate
rise it was to do the $60 Million worth
of projects that we've already suspended
and the other millions of dollars worth
of projects that we're just about to
suspend whenever we go into the next
part of the addend report so councelor
I would put it to you that instead of WR
in this evening to support a a project
that we all want to see delivered that
you had actually risen to support a
few months ago a sustained financial
plan for this Council that would have
allowed for this project and many others
that this community would like to see be
delivered be delivered councilors are
there any further speakers councelor
Darth yeah took the words right out of
MTH
I'm be so stoked next to you and I never
have to hear counc
essays just not even genuine
councilor D bring it bring it back to
please thank you the campaign for
last year for the group that I can't
remember what they' called the group
that kishna was
running with uh promised us a
boardwalk and the birthing facility and
a whole heap of other uh alala sort of
Base projects which is fantastic and yet
he couldn't
rise to put a rate increase through
which would fund all of these projects
I'm not fussed whether there's birthing
facility in alela I'm not fussed if
there's a boardwalk I'd like to see car
Parks uh made so that they're actually
drivable in the rain down near the
Bowling Club may be that turns into
a swamp and flood waters I would like to
see many other jobs around our Ward
done before there is a birthing facility
or even a boardwalk I do want to see
them but there's so much other stuff we
need to do we just voted to spend 50
Grand
on no voted against it thank God so a
rate increase would have been good
there's a lot of broken promises in all
of the three wards dollar does seem to
be
coping the brunt of it I reckon and I
will be uh supporting the suspension of
the birthing
facility
thanks thank you I will put the motion
is there any dissenting voices other
than councelor
kitcheners Council kiter votes against
yep the remainder vote for and the
motion is carried thank you councilors
that brings us to the motion now on page
65 which is a development application
for 408 bunkers Hill
Road who's leading the charge on this
one I'll have leave you done
yeah thank you you can start with
questions if that's necessary I will
start with questions and first of all I
want to start at the outset by thanking
the staff for the report because it does
take a lot of time time and effort but
my question is number one the dwelling
entitlement does it exist or does it
not thank you director
gray thank you through you Madame mayor
uh council is there is a dwelling
entitlement at the site uh the site is
zoned iu1 there there is uh two
pre-existing consents for the site uh
one for the tourist uh accommodation
cabins and caretakers dwelling one for
the eoin uh Center and education
establishment which has a a function
component uh neither of those previous
consents through the ministerial
guidelines and planning uh
information arising directly from the
Department would subse the dwelling
entitlement uh the application that is
in front of you today is effectively a
land use application for an existing
building with alter ations that would
lead to a change in the predominant land
use which is currently consed by the
equin facility uh education
establishment and function uh elements
and shift that into a residential use
which then would conse the dwelling
entitlement okay second question and I'm
genuinely concerned on this one and that
is that SA safety is a liability that we
as Council have on the
road if for even as Alan pointed out the
death on that road if there was one as a
result of it is a really after I saw it
yesterday a really skinny narrow
probably 60° falls off
Etc is this actually a spot where we
should be encouraging more people people
to attend and therefore we don't know
where this is heading we know that he's
prep Mr scarf is prepared to relinquish
his a function centered da but we don't
know where this is heading once it's
built like are we setting ourself up for
a future failure through you Madame
mayor we cannot assess and you cannot
decide a DA counsil is based on what may
potentially happen in the future outside
a proposed potential outcome uh the
application that is in front of us
specifically uh looks to move the land
use from the eoin facility and function
components to a permissible residential
use that could largely be seen as a
reduction in the intensity of
development at the site so that's
something that I think Council would
would need to consider uh every Rural
and residential allotment in the LGA uh
effectively has some entitlement to Road
uh there are other elements that
potentially may happen on the site so
there are St St uh allowances uh with an
agricultural use there are Agri tourism
allowances if there uh is a a
predominant Horticultural or
agricultural uh component on the site
and we heard some of that earlier uh as
questioning through the deputation so
those are are not elements that we
can explicitly prevent in terms of
intensive uh but certainly the uh
removal of and relinquishment of the
equin facility da and function uh Center
and replacing that with a single
residential dwelling uh would be seen as
a reduction in intensity of the site
from a a planning and development point
of
view uh I'll probably have more
questions but I'll let the others have a
go first before I come back
thanks councelor Kristen uh your
questions please so there are five
other dwellings apart from the one
that's under the present da application
on site so do none of those extinguish
the dwelling right or fulfill the
existing dwelling
right uh through you Madame May so
councilors there there are other
structures on the site uh which related
to a previous approval now some of those
as you would be aware uh have
potentially not been constructed in
accordance with the previous approvals
and that is a separate process that uh
that that effectively council is running
through so uh they relate specifically
to the tourist and visitor component uh
and I'm just looking now that was the
2014 da which was amended in 2017 uh
through DS
171126 uh for the regularization and
continued use of three existing building
as tourist cabins and a man managers
residence and approval for two new
tourist cabins so that's a very long way
of saying they were approved under a DA
for tourism use uh and although they do
contain a manager's residence or a
caretaker's uh residence that does not
conse the building entitlement uh
component yeah okay thank you the
other aspect is that the current
building as
portrayed is unusual should we say for a
household
dwelling
and despite that fact that it's very
unusual can councel object to it on
those grounds or does it have to accept
the uh the applicants intention that
it's that it's a personal
dwelling
you madam mayor council is ultimately
the the delegated decision making lies
with you so if your appetite is to
approve or refuse the da that solely
lies with with yourself uh the assessing
officer has uh assessed the application
on its merits as a a single residential
dwelling uh and come up with a
conditions package to uh minimize any
potential other impacts arising so it
must be used solely as a single
residential in I.E it cannot be split up
into a dual occupancy or rented out
through through multiple tencies there
must be a relinquishment of the previous
2017 da that leads to the intensity
through functions and those sorts of
things so ultimately councilors you
you can make the the decision but it
all of those decisions will be uh
contestable or appealable in in in some
mechanism uh staff have had to uh assess
the develop on its merits as a
residential dwelling and come to the
conclusion that it does meet the
requirements and and the categorization
as a residential dwelling as unusual as
it may
be just to clarify uh so although it
appears that it will be it could be
rented out as multiple small dwellings
that would not be P
permissible through you uh Madame May if
Council were to adopt the officer's
recommendation and the condition
auditions package that has been drafted
uh renting any of the individual
components of the house out as separate
residencies would be a breach of the
development
consent any further discussion any
further questions
councilors thank you councelor
Wells yes thank you Mr rro for your
answers it would seem that
your answers would indeed address a
number of the issues raised by barister
Lloyd bar do I'm sorry but he was asked
three basic questions which I'll ask you
now uh and I think you've answered some
of them in part uh can Council approve
conversion of an unlawfully constructed
equin education and function Center
standing on the property into a dwelling
house if there are already five other
unlawfully constructed tourism for
altered buildings on the
property for the use of dwellings
through uh Madam mayor the potential
other unlawfully constructed structures
are not the subject of this application
says Council must consider the
application that is in front of it on
its
merits so in other words the question is
extraneous to the to the application cor
thank you if the answer of that
question is know is a condition
prohibiting the use of those other five
buildings sufficient to overcome the
problem through you Madame may not
explicitly the uh recommended conditions
package from the assessing officer has
is uh requires the relinquishment of the
eoin facility development application
not the relinquishment of the
development application for the tourist
cabin and caretakers
residents uh the final question is can
and should the council approve the
president da to change the use of the
unlawfully constituted equin education
center and function Center uh and the
additional building Works
proposed without first issuing a Bic for
the existing unlawful
structure uh thank you councelor and
through you uh Madame mayor the it's
a it is a a a Carden horse or or Chi
an egg answer the unauthorized
structure for an equine facility would
require the Bick to be lodged and
approved for continued use based on
any uh structure that was constructed
outside of any previous approval given
that the application looks at amending
the land use and proposing additions and
alterations to the structure to meet
that land use uh that can be done uh
independent of of uh the the bck being
prior
approved so you're advising Council that
by extinguishing the previous consents
in respect of the qu education center
and extinguishing the uh existing
consents for any other purpose including
U potential subletting of prop of
bedrooms within the said building
that the use of this building is
strictly limited to that of a
residential dwelling through you Madame
mayor that that's correct and and
councilors I I think just back to the
that chicken and egg uh example so
the big application effectively looks
to to regularize the building as a
dwelling the da puts in place the
alterations and aims to amend the land
use to align with the use of that
building as a dwelling
so effectively the the bit couldn't be
issued to satisfy the change in use
the current building would be a class 9
building uh the Vic and the application
would require it to be a class one
building so different BCA requirements
look ultimately you could potentially
run either of those uh first preferably
we would like to have from a planning
and development and compliance point of
view uh the land use confirmed uh so
that the land use is locked in prior to
uh any approval of a structure that may
then not meet the land use if that makes
sense uh finally Mr Ry if Council were
to defer the recommendation tonight what
do you think the applicant's response
will be do you believe he will consider
it a deemed approve uh deemed refusal
and what are the implications of that
thank you through you uh Madame mayor
given the short time frame we we haven't
had an opportunity to fully review uh
the advice that was sent through today
so uh look I I do understand that
Council may want to take time to have
the the advice reviewed in saying that
the uh we have uh received
notification that a deemed
refusal uh appeal has been lodged and
so that will continue in the event that
any decision is prolonged uh whether
that be to seek further uh review of the
legal advice submitted and uh and
effectively we will be required to uh
respond to that as a a formal respondent
uh or party to the appeal so you're
advising as Mr rupy that we're Bound for
court uh short answer at this stage
Madame mayor uh yes that is correct
counselor we've received the
notification of deemed uh refusal appeal
so that that uh that is something we
will have to attend and deal with with
priority going to court will we be
endeavoring to pursue section 34
conciliation hearing uh through you
Madame mayor I I can't confirm the
position that or the process part of
it would be dependent upon the applicant
the the appellant sorry uh response
to to the court we effectively as
staff would be guided by a resolution of
council or the delegated authority uh
that we we're vested with at this point
without a guiding resolution from
Council uh we have an officer's report
that recommends a an approval with a
suite of conditions and so that would be
the position that we would take into uh
any hearing or section 34 conciliation
conference unless Council resolves
otherwise so essentially it would be a
submitting
appearance take that as a rhetorical
question councelor gray is next and
then councelor L right
thank you given that you just said
that we he can the applicant can apply
for a change of use of the dwelling once
it's given then we can change it after
that to AGR tourism can't
we you m May the Agri tourism
Provisions are uh they they apply with
consent where the predominant use is
agriculture or farming on site so if
there is a predominant use that is
allowed with or without consent on the
site so for example iu1 predominantly
used as uh as rural rural lands farming
of cattle uh if that is the predominant
use on site then the Agri tourism
Provisions would apply most of with
which with consent so a lot of those
Provisions would still require further
applications to come to council but
yes they would certainly apply and given
that when I asked the question in the
chain
has the agricultural use changed and the
answer was yes that was probably a given
there my next question goes to yes we
can Flex the legal muscles in various
different ways and you've given lots of
different answers
today if we were to defer after we've
been given this letter from the legal
council I would actually prefer that
because at this point in time we are
signaling to anyone who's watching this
that you can do five perhaps illegal
developments plus threaten going to the
land and environment court and basically
we will roll
over and if that's going to be the
standard especially for me who comes
from agriculture who has this going on
close by me if I wanted Council to
listen to me and do the right thing
this is a prime example of how we do
have to listen to our community and I
came into this election two and a bit
years ago knowing that Agri tourism is
going to be a problem and we've had
deputations in this chamber by Rob
McIntyre saying agriculture is at a
crossroad this is our chance to shine as
a council and put it to the lias test of
what will hold up in the LEC versus how
much we can be rolled that's my point
and with that in mind I would like to
put a
amend Amendment which I did send through
I don't know whether it's gotten up
somewhere there and that is just
basically to seek a deferral so that we
can get legal counsel to go through what
was put in this articulate
letter which I led to believe they're up
till 3:00 a.m. overnight writing we owe
it to our community to do the right
thing and it's up there now it's
basically everything I've just said and
it's B basically seeking a deferment
till we understand the legal
implications a little bit better
thanks councilor L thanks Madam may I
just wait for you to call
I also support defer all but what I
would prefer if Council gray would be
agreeable is to Simply defer the matter
altogether without including the
reference to the advice which I have
read and I do think the residents would
providing that information to us today I
think noting director R priz comments
this evening as well as in
correspondence of us this afternoon that
the lack of time the staff had to
consider this matter noting we have a
meeting coming up in two weeks time I
would rather leave it at the discretion
of staff to consider that over the next
two weeks to consider what they might
then put forward to us as far as
recommendations at our next meeting I
think we do we are well and truly on
notice about the applicants
intentions uh so I think time is of the
essence in that regard uh but I think
taking a beat for two weeks to allow the
staff the appropriate time to consider
the advice of Mr Doyle without
necessarily overloading that in the
motion per se however they do that
obtaining external advice through one of
our panel solicitors or briefing someone
whether that can be turned around in 2
weeks as always uh remains to be seen
but I'd rather just leave it as a simple
deferral and to give the STA the time to
work out the best way to respond to this
and then come back to us so councelor L
I just I will go to director R pre on
that because I think that that
there's a problem in just stating let's
defer I think there's more consideration
around why we're deferring and also in
instructing the staff to seek to spend
some budget getting some uh further
counsel is is an important part of what
we're doing here but I will ask the
director if that's the direction he
would like the chamber to take thank you
Madame mayor if that is council's
appetite that is exactly right that
would give us definitive Direction uh on
a deferment and a a subsequent report
I will make the point to to counselors
that it's unlikely unless legal
review brings back a significant error
in law that the officer's recommendation
would change uh as part of a subsequent
report but there may be further
information for Council laws to consider
as part of the
determination so basically we'll just be
getting the additional information from
the legal council which will not be
sharable to do that I got a couple of
questions
one of the issues that was that's
been fleshed out today is the amount of
traffic that's going up and down Bunker
Hill and I think that there's an
acknowledgement that that's kind of
problematic so what I want to know is
that in our rural zones we do allow for
tourist cabin
development in the tourist cabin
development do we have a maxim number
of cabins and has this property reached
it and could that be a limited factor
also a limiting factor so could Council
put in further controls to say no more
cabin
applications and are the residents
within the cabins regulated by a number
of days you know we've had that
discussion this evening around
short-term rental accommodation we know
that you know sh Haven's a 365
proposition but is it the same for
tourist cabins on
Rural
[Applause]
you through you Madame mayor sorry I'm
just trying to pull the lap up I
might I may have to take some of that on
notice and I do apologize the use of
the cabins is per is is a permissible
use with consent in terms of limitation
that's uh that's likely to be a site
specific issue on Merit based on the
size and and different elements of the
land I'd have to take that component and
notice and formally come back to Council
in in in uh with respect to intensity
per site for tourist cabin development
yeah director rupe I do not expect you
to be an encyclopedic mentor on the LEP
you're awesome you're awesome but I
don't expect you to be an
encyclopedia uh councelor
Kristen yeah Madame mayor I'd just like
to share with counselors that I think
we've heard in great detail from the
director about the complexity of the
site the the long history of the site
the fact that although it seems unfair
and it seems like it's you know it
doesn't sit right with anyone well
doesn't sit right with
me we're between a rock and a hard
place because it's the New South Wales
State legislation that is to blame and I
say to to councelor gray that
although she would really like to you
know fly the flag and so on it's it's
really you know we we're just battling
against the headwind that with that flag
because it's the state legislation
allows this and the staff have been
through it they've looked through the
detail like you said it would have to be
something
substantially in in error in the staff
decision for anything to change and
that's unlikely I mean just uh you know
a little bit here a little bit there is
not going to sway the whole thing so
it's as as uncomfortable as it may be
for us and the reality that this Council
has no money to do any of this I really
think we should take the staff advice
and not not be hopeful that something
comes up that would would change it
which we you know the staff are saying
it's very very unlikely so I don't think
the risk versus return as they say I
don't think it's there and I don't think
we should be spending any further money
that we don't have have on something
that Pro you know 99% will not return us
any uh
Joy just going to go to director rupe
who is an
encyclopedia thank you madam I'm
actually not and I'll thank my very
capable staff behind me for for for
bringing this up but uh the limitations
on numbers of cabins per land area comes
from the development control plan not
from the LEP uh so it is not a statutory
requirement but it is a policy
requirement of council uh and that
essentially dictates one to two cabins
per 2 hectares three cabins for four
hectares or larger uh four cabins for
six hectares or larger and five cabins
for 8 hectares or larger so the larger
the land area the more cabins are
allowed or or permissible as as
part of council's policy position not as
part of the statutory instrent so just
going further from Council Kristen's
comment
and actually all of the comments that I
mean there's a great deal of discomfort
in the room I totally get that no one
jp to their feet to move a motion or
change the motion I'm just wondering
if that if there was an appetite
for the majority to support the staff
recommendation could there be any
further limitation considered through
consent conditions around the maxim
allowable number of cabins and then the
maxim number of days that those
cabins could be
used three Madame mayor there could be a
condition for the maxim number of
allowable cabins that that
requirement would stand through any
subsequent assessment as it as it is now
anyway so the the number of cabins
that would be limited through the DCP
would be considered for any future
applications uh so per with consent an
application required if we were to
receive an application for further
tourist cabins at this point it would
be very heavily scrutinized given the
the requirements of of council's policy
position and the existing tourist cabins
on site so uh can Council condition it
yes is it worth conditioning given
that the policy position already exists
no as long as Council uh rigor
rigorously applies the
DCP
there in L is the
challenge
okay a tourist cabin cannot exceed 120
square m
correct there's two on that property I
know we can't Retros
retrospectively change anything there's
two on that property that are four
bedroomroom two bath that exceed 120
squar so yet again this is where
we're it's just such a hard impass to be
at counselors we're dealing with a
consent that was issued many years ago
for this use we we cannot undo that
consent unless it is voluntary uh
voluntarily relinquished by the consent
holder uh so while I I do understand the
the weariness of council around the
uh continued intensification of the site
that consent uh is in effect it has
uh it has been substantially
commenced so it will be retained in
perpetuity uh there are issues around
structures on the site and we we are
currently working through those and I
acknowledge that uh but the the consent
itself for the tourist cabins would need
to be amended uh either by the court or
through an application process to deal
with any of the issues and it's not the
subject of this application understood
okay so I did have a light for councelor
Darth but Council Dar did you have a
question Yeah question and then
Council nobody's mentioned the road
so what I'm worried about is whatever
way this goes there's still a lot of
people traveling up and down the road is
there an
alternative I mean if if the issue is
with zoning and so on is with state
government does the state government
have any issue with the access to the
area like are there some rules that we
can use to make this un
allowable councils I I I think we're
drawing long bows now the the road for
the purposes of determining a
residential house would be considered by
any Authority or the courts to be
adequately planned whether the road
condition is suitable at the moment
that's another question and that's
ultimately you know a an issue that
Council needs to address over time but
for the purposes of assessment the road
is in place the access is there uh and
for uh to to allow access for a dwelling
for the purposes of assessment it it
meets the
requirements any further supplement
councelor Dar no councelor Norris got
another long bow for us yes going on it
this a different way director I know
this is probably
not directly relevant to the DA so it
probably is falling outside and through
the Longbow Arrow but you mentioned the
size of the land allowing
more cabins on it would this development
that our depues have put in front of us
constitute as one cabin or eight
individual
cabins counts three m May I may not
understand the question properly but
what I can say is that the application
as it stand looks for consolidation uh
of certain Lots which would make the
single resultant lot uh 43 hectares from
memory yes I'm getting it not 43
hectares uh which would effectively
allow six or more cabins on the site
so they haven't maxed out the number of
cabins that would be allowed but a
subsequent application would be required
which again would be very rigorously and
stringently reviewed in line with the
DCP provisions and and given the the
existing cabins on
site all right counselors I don't see
any other lights and where we are at is
that we have a deferral motion that has
been put by councilor gray and I need to
seek a second to that other than unless
counselor L you're happy to go as the
second considering that your amendment
is
similar and giving giving some thought
to what was discussed by director
rupe about giving direction clear
Direction just for you madam mayor if
we were to have a to peral for two weeks
is that you know I know that's putting a
lot of pressure on staff but enough time
to consider the do advice at least
internally
M may it is a tight time frame reporting
Cycles effectively mean we we have to
have reports approved well in advance
a two- week turnaround with an agenda
published and distributed publicly days
before the meeting and and
effectively all of the the the chain of
approvals that that goes before that
would likely at this stage councilors
mean that the same report will be tabled
and we would be uh seeking and tabling
other independent legal advice and
review if that could be achieved within
that within that period noting that
other legal processes will just will
continue concurrently side by side uh
independently one last question from
me is there an opportunity for a
thirdparty
appeal should Council approve the
application three
three thank you three you madam mayor uh
yes there is always the the potential
for a third party uh appeal there
must be an error of law uh so a class
one appeal is an appeal against a
decision of council for a consent class
four appeal uh through the land
environment court is an error in law uh
so where there has been a uh a decision
made by Council either on the floor of
council by resolution or under
delegation there is always the
opportunity for a third party to raise
that through the courts as being an
error in the way that Council has
reached a decision it cannot just be on
the decision itself it must outline the
uh the way that the decision has been
made thank you okay councilor elf I'm
going to go back to you again to the
deferral motion and your position as
either second to councilor Gray's Mo the
the great difficult I have mad mayor is
as much as I certainly support the
intent uh Council gray is that it is
very open-ended about when this would
come back to us and I think given that
we're kind of yeah we've got this
themed refusal matter which is already
underway that's why I just wanted to
sort of allow the staff to take a beat
for two weeks and even if they provide
some direct advice to us and
correspondents once they've had the
chance to properly consider the you
the matters members and then even if
it's the exact same report at least
we're all better informed and having
I guess the the staff some response to
those matters more comprehensively
that's what I was seeking to achieve by
having a aoral of two weeks that was all
but just in terms of what's put there
forward by Council gray but time we
get advice reviewing it getting
advice on it by uh suitably qualified
Council and then reviewing our own
assessment report in light of that and
then providing possibly a further report
from that what sort of turnaround you
think there would be on
that thank
you through through you Madame May
councelors we we could move immediately
to seek a legal review we do have a very
good panel of legal providers who are
very experienced in this I can't
comment on their workloads we we would
seek that and look for a a uh as
short a turnaround time as possible I
could suggest count is that in trying to
keep the intent of this alternate
alternate motion might consider
something to the effect of the council
defer the consideration of Da 231 1856
uh to the meeting of the 22nd of April
the ordinary meeting of the 22nd of
April and a part two that says uh
Council uh direct the CEO bracket uh
Director City
development to seek a legal
review of advice
provided to
council with respect to the property at
408 bunkers Hill Road Baron
Gary as soon as
practicable and distributed to count
Council in
advance of the ordinary meeting of the
22nd of April that would cover off both
of those points we could keep the uh
report on the agenda uh and we will move
to seek the
legal review and advice and distribute
that as quickly as possible but not
guaranteeing that that would uh would
happen before the meeting okay so
councilors I need to have a a live
motion now that has a mover and a second
to be able to pursue this and close
this piece of business so you're
happy because so I'm going to put it
that councelor Gray's motion has lapsed
and that your original version of this
has basically lapsed but you're going to
move this
alterate yeah counselor gray you going
to second that okay so I now I have a
live motion councilors that we can go to
vote on is there any further discussion
on the
item
no okay so then I'll ask for the vote
now all
done councelor Watson you voting a
affirmatively for the
deferral I think that was a yes I think
I can lip
read I'm against it you're against the
deferral yes can't
liate okay thank
you okay so we have an outcome
counselors that the deferral for 2 weeks
to receive further Council has been
has been agreed to by Council this
evening noting that the outcome will
likely be of no difference when we come
back on the 22nd of April and that
that we will need to make the
substantive decision on the 22nd of
April we have no choice than to move
that piece of business along all right
thank you
councilors counselor cople you've been
waiting all
night thank
you 79 page 79 the notice of motion to
investigate an order the city's Willie
bins yes thank you Madame mayor so I
bring this notice a motion to council
tonight based on a concern about where
the city's waste strategy is sitting at
the moment which is uh been majorly
affected by the failure of Bio Electra
last year and since then we really have
not had a waste strategy that has met uh
legislative requirements of the new
South W state government and I believe
that that's something that we have to
get cracking on uh as I've said publicly
there's a concern around the fact
that our landfill availability in the
city is finite we have roughly 10 years
left and whilst we had thought that bio
Electra might be the solution to that
we've now become very clear on the fact
that that is no longer an option so
therefore we have to look and see what
do we do now and that is the intent
behind this notice of motion today just
to start the narrative and ask the
question from staff uh about the
possibility of an audit of our wheelie
bins our red bins to actually gather
reliable and current information about
what the city is actually putting into
the ground at the moment because we have
to know that for sure in order to build
a away strategy that fits our city
for the future we can't guess we can't
asse we can't just have this or that
and we have to tailor make a waste
strategy that suits our LGA not next
doors or down the roads for us what is
right for us and uh with the failure of
Bio Electra uh we absolutely cannot make
a second mistake and this is why I'm
looking to staff to assist me with some
feedback on the cost the funding
source the timeline of what would be
involved in a bin audit because I firmly
believe that until we actually know what
is the composition of what's in our red
bins that we're sending to the tip at
the moment we can't excuse me we
can't structure an appropriate waste
strategy for us so I have you know
people have been saying to me oh I want
a green bin yes I I hear that and I
support that I've been very vocal and
very public on my uh support of a Fogo
style collection uh but we're living in
a different world now as well we
actually have government legislation and
a 20-year waste strategy which is
legislating uh all lgas and businesses
to actually look to reduce organic waste
going into landfill by 50% until
2030 so we have to address this we can't
wait any longer we need to develop a
waste strategy for the city that is a
sustainable one and also is saving
money financially for all of us uh we
all know that we are paying Metropolitan
waste levies uh rather than Regional
rates which is costing the city of
Fortune so the sooner we divert
uh as much green waste or organic waste
from landfill as possible the better off
the city is going to be environmentally
and financially so this is the intent
behind this notice of motion to get the
ball rolling to start investigating
what's involved in identifying what the
city is actually putting into landfill
so that we can then start building a
strategy around what is the solution and
where do we go from here and what is
going to be the best option for us as a
Community because it's time we started
talking about it we can't wait any
longer uh landfill is running out and we
need to do something
soon Council
Norris thank you m and I thank Council
cop for bringing this to us I would
like to Second it if I could and just
say that we need to get on with this and
uh start moving forward to find uh I
won't say what it was called in the
briefing the other night but we didn't
need to find what our way strategy is
going forward thank
you coun
Christen thank you madam mayor thank
you councelors for your contribution I
just like to ask St is it correct that
council is not legal in its Wastewater
Wastewater waste disposal at the moment
as we just heard from Council
cop thank you director
McIntyre three Madame mayor council is
not acting illegally in respect of its
current
Waste Management uh without trying to
put words in councilor copley's mouth
what I understood her to say was that we
run that risk in the future but at this
time council is is not undertaking
any illegal activity with respect to
waste
management yeah thank you very much for
that
clarification the other aspect is
that the insinuation is that council
is not doing anything on this matter not
making any investigation since uh uh the
subsidiary to bi Electra went under and
we couldn't pursue that option could you
explain to us what investigations
Council has been undertaking and is
considering to undertake to take this
forward and that there is not a vacu
in this
space three Madame mayor uh so Council
officers uh have since the uh Council
resolved to uh terminate the contract
with bi Electric
have been having discussions uh with
some industry stakeholders including uh
some industry Consultants and in that
sense has been preparing itself for the
next big packet of work that it will
need to do in this space council is
also concurrently uh recruiting for a
new waste manager uh and it is
anticipated that that process will be
finalized indeed in the coming uh days
if not weeks
sorry in in the current day sorry we
finalized in the in the coming days it
won't take weeks it's what I was trying
to say uh uh that will also be uh a
great filp for the organization in as
much as it will enable that work to be
the focus of a manager at this time
uh but certainly Council offices are not
being idal in this space uh but uh the
next important phase is is to develop
a strategy uh post bi Electra and that
is the work that counselor Copley was
referring to uh in the earlier part of
her
speech thank you very much and I was
just wondering is it is the constitution
of the waste going into the landfill an
unknown factor to the
council it is certainly uh advisable
from time to time for Council to uh
under take uh audits in uh its waste
stream to understand uh what is going
into those waste streams the behavior of
people who are using those was streams
and the extent to which they're being
contaminated if you like and by
contaminated I mean uh yellow going to
red red going to Yellow Etc uh so to
that end uh it is healthy from time to
time for an order to be undertaken
that's not assing a preposition
with respect ECT to this notice of
motion uh the notice of motion calls for
a number of considerations including
cost uh and all of those will be
considered and brought back to Council
in the subsequent
report so the other aspect I was
wondering was where you know the timing
of an audit so we we're going to
you're going to be looking at different
options for Council moving forward in
terms of the waste phas would it be best
to do the audit after those options have
been narrowed down and considered or
before three m madame mayor would be my
recommendation that if Council was of a
mind tot take an audit that that audit
that data set be coated and established
uh before Council starts to commit to a
particular path I think it is a it would
potentially be a a important set of
Base data for us to base any future
decisions
on councilor l
thanks very much uh Madame Marin I thank
director McIntyre for that very
detailed overview and thank you very
much to councelor Copley and councel
Norris for bringing this forward this
evening I had a similar question what
counselor Kristen asked which was
just around I guess what are the
existing protocols that we have as a
city to monitor compliance with respect
to what households are putting into
their yellow versus their red bin I
just wanted to know that from an
operational standpoint you may not be
able to share that with me on the spot
now director McIntyre but I think the
key Point with this motion colleagues
is that it is asking for a report back
and the timing of that report will be
in the hands of Staff in terms of when
that uh comes forward so the extent
to which there can be some degree of
I guess uh collaboration around
the other work which is being undertaken
that's something that will be in the
hands of the staff so I'm very happy to
supporting this tonight just to get the
information to leave it with the staff
to work at the best way forward but
just if you could just address that
point about what what's what do we do at
the moment just to check the quality
control and to make sure that people are
doing the right
thing okay counselors are there any
further
questions right of reply counselor
Copley thank you m
May thank you Madame mayor yes well the
intent of this is to exactly as Council
has said is to gather information we
are going to have to make a decision on
some way strategy moving forward and
person personally I would like to have
as much information and data relevant
data current reliable information based
on that I mean we're going to have to
talk about uh what we want to do in the
future what cycle uh those bins or all
of our waste is going to be on is it
going to be a fortnightly strategy or a
weekly strategy is it going to be an opt
in or an opt out there's so many
questions that we are going to have to
answer in the future to develop a waste
strategy now no question about that
and I firmly believe that the only way
to do that is is to get information so
that we can all make an informed
decision based on our city and our
City's needs and that's what I'm calling
for as a report back tonight and I hope
uh there'll be support for that report
thank
you okay so with that councilors I'll
put that to the vote is there any
dissenting
voices there's no dissenting voices and
the motion is carried can have a motion
to go into confidential thank you
councelor cot lash and seconded by
councelor Wells are there sorry I'll
go to the CEO first is the CEO aware of
anyone who has contacted Council to say
that we shouldn't go into
confidential this evening no not aware
of anyone Okay so we've got no awareness
of that I'll put the motion is there any
dissenting voices there being no
dissenting voices ah thank you you're
right we'll feel we'll deal with that
when we come back then we will now
yes and we'll do that when we come back
but we are now going into confident
confidential session to deal with the
item in confidential and to deal with
the addend report in the open session
when we return to report back the
confidential outcomes to
you thank you uh during the confidential
session Council made the following
resolutions uh CCL
24.9 confidential tender report rft
7269 9 6E construction of alala Harbor
Boardwalk stage 3 to 5 and harbor side
car park stage six uh Council declined
to accept any of the tender submissions
and paused the proposal for the contract
in accordance with Clause 1783 a rights
to the transport for New South Wales and
Crown lands recommending that a master
planning process be undertaken for the
alad dala Harbor Precinct that includes
provision for the boardwalks stages 3 to
5 allad doala game fishing club
facilities and car park upgrades rights
to the New South Wales government
planning industry and environment public
spaces Legacy program requesting to
withdraw from the project in accordance
with Clause 9.2 of the deed and the
unexpended funds to be returned rights
to the Commonwealth Department of
Industry science resources building
better region fund requesting that the
project be canell in accord
with Clause 20 of the deed thank you
madam mayor thank you so council is our
final piece of business this evening is
our financial sustainability monthly
report CL
2495 thank you councelor Wells and a
seconda councelor Norris any discussion
councelor
L morning we can move proced motion to
deal with these
separately I'll I'd like to vote against
part two but Havey to support the rest
of it
counselors do we want to split this or
is everybody reasonably happy and
counselor thank you and councelor L
you'll be able to just vote against that
motion yeah all right so I'll put the
motion the dissenting voice being
counselor
L any other dissenting
voices there being no other dissenting
voices and the motion is carried thank
you and with that I'll close the meeting
and thank you
all