WEBVTT

00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.176
 so councilors, I'd like to open the

00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:05.976
extraordinary meeting  today Friday

00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.000
the 13th of February, 2026

00:00:09.440 --> 00:00:12.216
at 11:00 a.m. So, we can sit down now.

00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:15.240
Thank you very much.

00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:21.640
 so any apologies or leaves of

00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:24.936
absence?

00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.415
So, I understand councelor Dunn is on

00:00:27.439 --> 00:00:30.439
her way in we don't have to do the

00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:32.616
confirmation of audiovisisual because we

00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:34.136
don't have any counselors on

00:00:34.160 --> 00:00:36.856
audiovisisual declarations of

00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.880
interest.

00:00:40.239 --> 00:00:43.239
 Madam Mayor I would like to make a

00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:46.280
non-pecuniary less than significant 

00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.456
declaration in relation to the item

00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:50.215
before the meeting this morning, which

00:00:50.239 --> 00:00:53.239
is in relation to a notice of intention

00:00:53.440 --> 00:00:55.896
to issue a performance improvement order

00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:58.456
to Shoalhaven City Council.  obviously

00:00:58.480 --> 00:01:01.480
the fundamental question is  me

00:01:01.760 --> 00:01:03.816
remaining in the in the room. I would

00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:06.455
note that this relates to future 

00:01:06.479 --> 00:01:08.296
compliance reporting to the office of

00:01:08.320 --> 00:01:09.736
local government that I'm required to

00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:12.760
provide as  chief executive officer.

00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.095
I'd like to declare a non-pecuniary less than

00:01:21.119 --> 00:01:24.119
significant interest in item CL 26.15,

00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:25.976
notice of intention to issue a

00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.135
performance improvement order to Shoalhaven City

00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:30.216
Council as I hold a senior

00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:31.896
leadership position and I was recruited

00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.920
to it after 1 January 2025, which is a

00:01:35.600 --> 00:01:37.816
period of the recruitment the proposed

00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:40.216
performance order relates to. Further, I

00:01:40.240 --> 00:01:41.576
participated in the recruitment of

00:01:41.600 --> 00:01:43.336
senior leadership positions as a panel

00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:46.360
member during the same period.

00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.095
I too would like to declare a conflict 

00:01:49.119 --> 00:01:51.095
sorry a non-pecuniary less than

00:01:51.119 --> 00:01:54.119
significant interest in item CL26.15

00:01:54.960 --> 00:01:56.455
notice of intention to issue a

00:01:56.479 --> 00:01:57.896
performance improvement order to 

00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:59.976
Shoalhaven City Council as I too am a senior

00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.656
leader that was recruited in the period

00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.375
1 January 2025 to now which is the

00:02:04.399 --> 00:02:06.375
period the notice relates to also I've

00:02:06.399 --> 00:02:07.896
recruited senior leaders as a panel

00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:10.920
member during the same period

00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:14.840
I too would like to declare a conflict

00:02:14.959 --> 00:02:17.176
of interest non- pecuniary and less than

00:02:17.200 --> 00:02:19.816
significant as I hold a senior

00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:22.840
leadership role and subject to the item

00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:27.160
CL 26.15

00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.736
as I was recruited in November 2025 the

00:02:29.760 --> 00:02:31.496
period of which this draft order relates

00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:33.575
to

00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:35.976
madame may I also declare a non-pecuniary

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.136
less than significant interest in item

00:02:38.160 --> 00:02:40.616
CL 26.15

00:02:40.640 --> 00:02:42.536
notice of intention to issue performance

00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:44.935
improvement order to Shoalhaven city council

00:02:44.959 --> 00:02:46.935
as I hold a senior leadership position

00:02:46.959 --> 00:02:49.656
and was recruited to it after 1 January

00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.295
225 which is the period recruitment in

00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:53.736
the proposed performance orders.

00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:55.416
Further, I participated in the

00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:56.696
recruitment of senior leadership

00:02:56.720 --> 00:02:58.376
positions as a panel member during the

00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.016
same time.

00:03:01.040 --> 00:03:02.776
Thank you. Is there any declarations

00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.416
from any councilors?

00:03:05.440 --> 00:03:08.440
No. All right. So, we'll move on to 

00:03:08.720 --> 00:03:11.096
CL26.15,

00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:14.120
notice of intention to issue performance

00:03:14.239 --> 00:03:16.295
improvement order for Shoalhaven City

00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:18.536
Council and I've got the

00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:20.616
recommendation printed on the page. I'd

00:03:20.640 --> 00:03:23.640
like to move the recommendation  with

00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:26.536
two amendments, the first amendment

00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:29.560
is in  paragraph two, except the draft

00:03:30.799 --> 00:03:33.799
performance order and yes,

00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.096
improvement order and a part three that

00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.976
the council invite the honorable Mr. Ron

00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.000
Honing, Minister for Local Government to

00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:44.696
come to the council to meet with

00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:47.720
councilors and senior executive staff.

00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:51.096
Do I have a second?

00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.016
So, it's been seconded by councelor

00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:54.616
Kemp.

00:03:54.640 --> 00:03:56.376
So,

00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:59.256
I received last Friday I'll speak to 

00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:01.415
the recommendation. I received last

00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.439
Friday  at about 10 to 5  a notice

00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:07.575
from the office of local government.

00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:10.376
They had rung me to tell me that it

00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:12.775
was being sent so it came in at

00:04:12.799 --> 00:04:15.656
about 10 to 5. When I received it and I

00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.215
looked at the notice, I immediately

00:04:18.239 --> 00:04:21.239
rang the contact person in the 

00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:23.816
minister's office in and the office of

00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:26.840
local government in relation to  what

00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.120
the evidence etc was on receiving of 

00:04:30.400 --> 00:04:33.400
the orders in schedule one.  they told

00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.336
me that due to the hour I was unable to

00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:39.175
get they were unable to give me any

00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:41.576
advice on Friday and they would

00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.216
contact me on Monday. Monday they did

00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:47.240
not contact me. Monday afternoon I sent

00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:50.216
an email to the minister's office

00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:52.615
requesting the information. Understand

00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:54.296
that counselors have been provided with

00:04:54.320 --> 00:04:57.320
that information that email I

00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.360
received an email back early  Tuesday

00:05:00.479 --> 00:05:03.479
morning requesting me to hold off or to

00:05:04.479 --> 00:05:06.615
 pause while they had an opportunity

00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:09.639
to respond.  that came from the 

00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.160
office so Tuesday I then put it

00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.696
out publicly that we had received it and

00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.096
I also sent a notice to all counselors

00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.120
that this was going to be discussed at

00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:24.136
an extraordinary meeting which would be

00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:26.216
called today which allowed us to have

00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.240
the 72 hours notice that we needed. I

00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:33.015
continue to follow up with the office.

00:05:33.039 --> 00:05:35.496
However, I only received a reply

00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:37.496
yesterday morning which was all

00:05:37.520 --> 00:05:40.520
circulated to you yesterday.  and that

00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.256
was circulated yesterday afternoon to

00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:45.096
say that they had given us enough

00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:46.856
information and they would be providing

00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:49.880
no further evidence to the order so

00:05:51.039 --> 00:05:53.015
I just want to let you know that was the

00:05:53.039 --> 00:05:55.895
order in  which it took

00:05:55.919 --> 00:05:58.919
place sorry the other thing

00:06:00.320 --> 00:06:03.320
that  I've been made aware of is that

00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:06.136
I attended the ARIC committee on

00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:09.160
Wednesday  along with councelor Boyd 

00:06:09.919 --> 00:06:12.856
and the notice was also referred to ARIC

00:06:12.880 --> 00:06:15.880
on Wednesday and  the chair of ARIC

00:06:16.880 --> 00:06:19.880
pointed out that in late 24

00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.376
the council had undertaken an

00:06:22.400 --> 00:06:23.976
independent

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.000
review of repeat  recruitment

00:06:27.440 --> 00:06:30.440
 practices which was  part of the

00:06:31.919 --> 00:06:34.919
request from ARIC that was undertaken

00:06:35.280 --> 00:06:38.280
and  it's my understanding as I

00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:40.615
was on the ARIC committee at the time.

00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:42.455
It's my understanding that there were

00:06:42.479 --> 00:06:44.776
some recommendations and I have been

00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.096
advised by senior staff that those

00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.735
recommendations have been implemented.

00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:52.759
  the chair offered the report go

00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.416
to all counselors  so you could have a

00:06:57.440 --> 00:07:00.216
look at that report. It is my intention

00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:02.216
if we're going to accept these orders

00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.936
will in any case we will send a copy of

00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:07.336
that report  along with the evidence

00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.360
that they are asking so I'm

00:07:11.919 --> 00:07:13.816
not sure if it's been circulated yet,

00:07:13.840 --> 00:07:16.455
but I will note that all counselors have

00:07:16.479 --> 00:07:19.479
access to the ARIC agendas and the ARIC

00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:23.400
minutes after every meeting. So, it is

00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.816
available for you to go and look online

00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:28.216
 when those meetings are on as well.

00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.240
 so I'm moving it I've seconded it.

00:07:31.599 --> 00:07:34.455
 if so is there anyone wishing

00:07:34.479 --> 00:07:37.479
to speak? Yes, councelor Killian.

00:07:45.440 --> 00:07:48.440
Yep.

00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.879
Have a paper copy if help you. Oh, I got

00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.879
it. Did the staff have it?

00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.000
So, can all councils see it?

00:08:39.599 --> 00:08:42.599
Can you expand it?

00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:46.680
So, I can't accept part four because

00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.320
we're not here today to talk about the

00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.056
430 notice. We're only here today to

00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:57.080
talk about the draft orders that is

00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.656
not being put onto the business paper

00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:01.495
and we can only discuss what's on the

00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:03.656
business paper that was only received

00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:06.616
yesterday. That's what it is. So, if you

00:09:06.640 --> 00:09:07.976
would like to make a further

00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.656
recommendation at the next council

00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:12.680
meeting  by notice of motion that

00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.016
can we can discuss that at this at

00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:15.656
that time.

00:09:15.680 --> 00:09:17.896
I'm happy to remove four from it.

00:09:17.920 --> 00:09:20.920
Thank you. You're happy with

00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.440
references to 43 investigation.

00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:33.720
Yeah. So we have to remove everything in

00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:37.160
relation to the 430 notice.

00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:40.519
So in part 

00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:42.935
part

00:09:42.959 --> 00:09:44.616
two

00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:46.856
yeah part three and part two I'll put it

00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:48.375
up at the next meeting. Madam Mayor I

00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.056
think it's very important stuff.

00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.080
Yes and and I acknowledge that. So 

00:09:53.839 --> 00:09:56.136
you're happy to remove that? we remove

00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:59.160
the  reference to the 430 because

00:10:00.640 --> 00:10:03.255
we are cooperating with them in

00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.656
regard to  fulfilling the schedules

00:10:05.680 --> 00:10:08.216
that are on the order. So perhaps we

00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.696
could just remove the references to the

00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:13.336
430 investigation. So can I yeah can I

00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.815
make a suggestion that  in terms of

00:10:15.839 --> 00:10:17.896
part three counselor that the engagement

00:10:17.920 --> 00:10:19.495
of an appropriate independent suitably

00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.096
qualified legal professional to Clayton

00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.120
review  relevant materials as it

00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:27.416
relates to the order is a good one and

00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.440
and appropriate  and then in terms

00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.096
of

00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.120
 your reference to 430 thereafter you

00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:38.536
know that you make that the subject of

00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:41.560
the future notice of motion. Well

00:10:41.839 --> 00:10:43.736
in order to I'd believe in order to

00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:46.296
best determine the position for council

00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:47.976
 in the best interests of the

00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.896
community of the Shoalhaven. Take out

00:10:49.920 --> 00:10:52.920
the specific reference for the

00:10:54.160 --> 00:10:57.160
43.

00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.016
You can also take out the word legal

00:11:03.040 --> 00:11:05.255
profession if people would prefer that.

00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.736
It has been raised with me that

00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:08.136
profession.

00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:11.160
Oh yeah, I mean I I would welcome

00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.495
 councelor's approval today to engage

00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:16.519
a solicitor in relation to  the 

00:11:17.839 --> 00:11:19.096
certainly in terms of the improvement

00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.055
performance order as we  depending on

00:11:22.079 --> 00:11:25.079
the outcome of today  seek to comply

00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:27.176
with the order throughout the course of

00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:30.200
2026 that  you know would be

00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:33.576
eminently sensible and it's more than

00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.375
likely I'm within my rights of CEO to

00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:39.255
be able to do that anyway but you

00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:41.336
know that is the feeling of council.

00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.255
I think we we're trying to  make a

00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.279
position clear here that we both want to

00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.616
cooperate fully and be really clear but

00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:49.976
also and the whole thing about

00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.000
communicating with the the community 

00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:55.016
is really important too. If we need to

00:11:55.040 --> 00:11:56.616
leave that out we can or otherwise we

00:11:56.640 --> 00:11:59.640
can put a four in that says that we 

00:11:59.760 --> 00:12:02.760
we agree to publicly to publish monthly

00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.495
reports on progress in regard to the

00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:06.776
order.

00:12:06.800 --> 00:12:09.736
Yeah and again I you know as long as

00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:11.896
it's compliant within the act and 

00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:14.216
certainly the code I mean I we are

00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:15.896
talking about the professional

00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:17.656
recruitment of

00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:20.216
 obviously only things that are

00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:21.096
appropriate. Yeah.

00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.375
Yeah so

00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:23.976
I think there's  you know one of the

00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.736
things we're committed to and I heard

00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:27.495
Madam Mayor talking about on the radio

00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:29.576
the other day is that  it's important

00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:31.656
that we be transparent to the community

00:12:31.680 --> 00:12:34.680
as far as we can about this process.

00:12:34.959 --> 00:12:37.959
Yeah. So if I if I can just note on

00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:41.720
that council Killian what we have 

00:12:42.880 --> 00:12:45.880
we have to report within 20 days of when

00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:49.240
it's issued and I'm happy to report

00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.136
that out to the community but then it's

00:12:52.160 --> 00:12:54.615
every at the end of June the end of

00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:57.639
July do you want I just need and 

00:12:58.160 --> 00:13:00.375
to clarify with the CEO that you would

00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:03.399
like a report in every council meeting

00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.176
about what has happened in between

00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:07.416
because those reports the second two

00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.856
reports will only be collected when

00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:10.296
they're due to go in.

00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.375
 I think every council meeting.

00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:14.375
Yep. Progress that

00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.176
Yep. Yep. Having to keep the 

00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.055
transparency. So does the second agree

00:13:20.079 --> 00:13:21.896
to the changes? I'm happy to accept

00:13:21.920 --> 00:13:24.920
them just councelor I just again

00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:28.760
just  I know that councelor Boyd and

00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.576
Mayor White were in attendance at ARIC

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.176
the other day. I wasn't unfortunately

00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.255
because of a industrial relations matter

00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:36.856
in relation. Oh, I'm sorry councelor

00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:39.255
Clancy I wasn't present but I dare say

00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.576
that they likewise as they have

00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.600
previously including obviously the

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:48.136
report that was commissioned in 2024 in

00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:50.856
relation to staffing recruitment  you

00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:52.216
know will again make potential

00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:53.656
recommendations in response to the

00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:56.375
improvement performance order I have

00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.016
to be clear that  in the time

00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:01.336
that I've been here as CEO  know that

00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.016
the recruitment practices that I have

00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:06.040
seen are robust and very good. I 

00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:09.576
obviously want to indicate publicly and

00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.600
for that matter to staff  that you

00:14:13.199 --> 00:14:15.495
know ultimately we do have a robust

00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.495
process. I note that one of the concerns

00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.216
of the minister relates to this

00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.240
matter being systemic  which is why

00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.495
we haven't been provided evidence of

00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.456
that systemic concern  and to be

00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:30.456
honest with you, I haven't been 

00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.935
provided any indication in terms of the

00:14:32.959 --> 00:14:35.416
particular staffing matter that to which

00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.440
he refers. I might have my suspicions

00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:41.096
but you know to that end I think it's

00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.120
really important that  you know that

00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.016
certainly within the organization I want

00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.495
to make clear that  you know I have

00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:51.416
not seen any evidence of systemic

00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:53.495
problems with recruitment and that is

00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.519
very important to our staff and to the

00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.016
wider community. So I think having that

00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:02.040
oversight through this process back

00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:04.456
to the council in a very open and

00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.480
transparent way  whilst we protect the

00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.615
recruitment of the individuals concerned

00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:12.856
and the the obviously those who might

00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:15.736
sit on the panel and any referees I

00:15:15.760 --> 00:15:17.096
think that's  important. I think

00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:19.416
we can find a happy medium in that with

00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.440
that.

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.639
So, is the second happy to accept the

00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.375
amendment?

00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:30.055
Yep. Julian.

00:15:30.079 --> 00:15:32.216
 no I need the second of the

00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.055
original motion.

00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:36.136
Oh, do you need a second? Oh,

00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:38.615
councelor Kemp.

00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:39.976
Good. Before I comment.

00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.495
Yep.

00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.375
 does any of the advice or orders in

00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.399
those  conflict with the nature of the

00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.360
honorable Ron Hearn's request?

00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.240
See, it's 

00:15:57.839 --> 00:16:00.776
 through you  Madam Mayor I

00:16:00.800 --> 00:16:02.456
don't see anything that conflicts with

00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:03.976
the improvement performance order.

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.000
Council can within its own purview 

00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:10.296
obviously and consistently as it should

00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.935
be monitoring recruitment practices

00:16:12.959 --> 00:16:14.615
within the organization particularly

00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.136
given the role of the audit and risk

00:16:16.160 --> 00:16:19.160
committee who have previously in 2024

00:16:20.959 --> 00:16:22.935
 been involved with an external audit

00:16:22.959 --> 00:16:25.336
in relation to that. This report  I

00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.815
will make available to councilors

00:16:27.839 --> 00:16:30.456
the again it's one which was done and

00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.696
completed in by the 28th of November

00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.720
2024 involving in consult  and the

00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.375
chair of ARC was keen for you as

00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.399
councilors to see that report and see

00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.055
how the council obviously responded

00:16:44.079 --> 00:16:47.079
that. Now I wasn't here  obviously 

00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.639
and you know again I would you know

00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:52.856
everything I've seen since I've been

00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:55.656
here has been appropriate but that

00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:58.216
said let's give the shity to the

00:16:58.240 --> 00:16:59.495
committee certainly in terms of the way

00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:01.656
that this matter has been aired publicly

00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:03.815
and reported I'd say that there is no no

00:17:03.839 --> 00:17:04.616
conflict.

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.015
I'm happy to accept sorry about that

00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:08.935
happy to accept if there's no

00:17:08.959 --> 00:17:11.895
conflicting  orders being overwritten

00:17:11.919 --> 00:17:12.935
there.

00:17:12.959 --> 00:17:15.959
Thank you. Thank you. So Councelor

00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:19.400
Proudfoot.

00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:22.616
Thanks, Madam Chair.

00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.640


00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:28.919
I struggle to support the amendment.

00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:32.280
 and why I do struggle is that the

00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.256
information that has been sent to OOLG

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:37.256
and the minister

00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:40.280
 would vary in terms of  its impact

00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.496
in terms of its quantity as to the

00:17:45.520 --> 00:17:48.376
information that could be provided by

00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.456
council staff because there were

00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.480
submissions made to the OOLG that were

00:17:54.320 --> 00:17:56.376
confidential and they came from far and

00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.400
wide. And so to to come up with um a

00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.216
report a legal report on the information

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:05.240
that council has in its hands

00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:07.416
doesn't necessarily

00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.440
 fit with the OOLG and it certainly

00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.056
wouldn't fit with the OG or the

00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:14.216
minister. So I struggle with that

00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.856
approach that that we come every meeting

00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:19.880
with a report back from an em eminently

00:18:20.080 --> 00:18:22.775
qualified legal person as to the the

00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:24.136
limited amount of information that

00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.216
council has.

00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:29.240
To my way of thinking, we need to leave

00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.535
the investigation, especially the

00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.936
preliminary investigation with with the

00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:37.960
minister in the OOLG now to to not allow

00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.736
us to talk about the 430 report. We all

00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:44.696
know about it. We all know about the 430

00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.216
and here we are talking about the

00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.240
preliminary  investigation and yet

00:18:49.919 --> 00:18:51.336
we're our judgment's already been

00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:53.256
clouded by the next report that's come

00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:54.856
through from the government. So,

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:57.496
so it's it's impossible to not allow

00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:00.520
that to impact on our on our process.

00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.376
I'll stop you there and I'll refer it to

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.895
the CEO.

00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:06.919
Um, just  councelor, the the point of

00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.799
the amendment as I read it is that it

00:19:13.919 --> 00:19:16.919
relates to the required actions

00:19:17.120 --> 00:19:20.120
that are before you in terms of the

00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.616
business paper today. the section 430 is

00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:24.296
not before you as an item of business

00:19:24.320 --> 00:19:27.320
today. It is a very separate  process

00:19:27.919 --> 00:19:30.616
and a very serious process that is now

00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.096
 been announced by the government 

00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:36.120
in terms of the specific

00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.376
um business before you today and the

00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.775
required actions. It relates to three

00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.535
compliance reports that we would be

00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.535
provided that we would be required to

00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.936
provide the office of local government

00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:49.960
as it relates to as I understand it 

00:19:51.360 --> 00:19:54.360
2024 2025 and there has been a seeking

00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:56.936
of clarity around whether that's the

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.256
financial year or calendar year. It

00:19:59.280 --> 00:20:02.280
speaks of a proposed future restructure

00:20:03.679 --> 00:20:06.679
which to be honest with you I don't have

00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:09.416
any proposed future restructure of the

00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.440
senior leadership group and it relates

00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:16.360
to a report on the restructure that has

00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.200
happened. It relates to future

00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.720
appointments between the months of

00:20:23.919 --> 00:20:26.919
February to May and then through till

00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:28.856
the end of the year. So it's three

00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.655
compliance reports.  we are required

00:20:31.679 --> 00:20:34.679
as part of that process to broaden our

00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.655
appointment panels  to include a

00:20:37.679 --> 00:20:40.679
subject matter expert.  and you know

00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:43.816
ultimately in terms of what is before

00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:46.616
you in terms of the foreshadowed

00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.176
um motion

00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.895
um I do not see a problem  with a

00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:54.376
legal professional being involved to

00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:57.400
make sure that we are able to release

00:20:57.679 --> 00:21:00.376
what we can in the interest and the

00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.256
protections of our applicants, our panel

00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:05.576
members and our those who provide

00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:08.296
referees. And then at the same time

00:21:08.320 --> 00:21:11.176
making sure that we satisfy  office of

00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.200
local government  you'll see  in

00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:15.895
relation to the first compliance report

00:21:15.919 --> 00:21:18.919
that is due from the 21 days if the

00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:21.736
minister determines

00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:23.576
that the performance order is to go

00:21:23.600 --> 00:21:25.416
ahead because all he has done is provide

00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.440
a draft we are required to be here today

00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.240
seeking your input as counselors into

00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.775
what you would like us to do. The staff

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.576
recommendation is to accept the order

00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:42.600
and comply with the required actions.

00:21:43.520 --> 00:21:45.895
Alternatively,  depending on this

00:21:45.919 --> 00:21:48.696
discussion today,  we can meet again

00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.696
next week after we put together a

00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.720
submission which could oppose the draft

00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:56.696
that has been provided by the minister.

00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.720
That's not the recommendation that  I

00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:02.696
would advocate to you through the the

00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.376
report that's provided to you. I think

00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.096
we should accept the order and work

00:22:07.120 --> 00:22:09.496
constructively with Minister Honig who

00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:11.176
has expressed concern based on evidence

00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.200
that we don't have.

00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.456
That's my very point based on evidence

00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.856
that we don't have. So I I think this is

00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.416
just futile. Right. So, can I just add

00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:22.856
to that counselor and like what you've

00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.976
just said

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.000
that you will see from the email that

00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:29.015
was issued by the office of local

00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.039
government yesterday very clearly why

00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:35.960
section 4382B

00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.616
which talks about the justification of

00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.336
an order and the provision of evidence

00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:43.895
 what OLG have said in relation to the

00:22:43.919 --> 00:22:45.976
provision of that evidence.  the

00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.336
government is not willing to disclose

00:22:47.360 --> 00:22:48.775
that. the minister is not willing to

00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.096
disclose that.  there is reference to

00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:52.775
the public interest disclosure

00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.296
legislation

00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:56.135
 in order and I suspect to protect the

00:22:56.159 --> 00:22:57.816
confidentiality of those who have

00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:00.535
complained and brought information

00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.559
forward and as a usual practice normally

00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.799
OOLG  again if there has been the

00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.775
transfer of information between

00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.256
integrity agencies and OG they might

00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:15.576
also determine why they would not

00:23:15.600 --> 00:23:18.135
release evidence. So, you know,

00:23:18.159 --> 00:23:21.015
ultimately I did seek advice in relation

00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:23.416
to section 438B2

00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.775
and the provision of that evidence

00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:27.096
because I felt it necessary for you as

00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:28.535
counselors to potentially have that

00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.559
evidence, but you know, we we have not

00:23:31.760 --> 00:23:34.760
been provided that.

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.256
We'll agree to disagree.  madam chair

00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:42.280
if I may speak to the the  amendment.

00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.096
If you refer to your business paper

00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:48.120
councilors  the reasons why it was

00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:51.416
proposed to take a per performance

00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.736
improvement order is spelled out there

00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:56.216
on page seven. There is sufficient

00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.240
evidence to raise questions about the

00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:01.256
transparency and partiality and

00:24:01.280 --> 00:24:02.936
integrity of the recruitment process.

00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:05.960
That's point one. Point two systemic.

00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.256
 point three against the background of

00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:11.496
internal and external disquite about the

00:24:11.520 --> 00:24:13.496
recruitment process leading to Mr. Con's

00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:15.655
appointment and another managerial

00:24:15.679 --> 00:24:17.255
appointment is likely that if left

00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.015
undressed those concerns will negatively

00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:21.416
impact on council and the final one is

00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.296
the restructure. Now,

00:24:24.320 --> 00:24:26.456
we're discussing this in in light of the

00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.376
fact that we already know what's in the

00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:29.976
430

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.775
referral, but it's a very serious 

00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.176
outcome from the OG and the minister and

00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:37.816
it is not to be taken lightly and and

00:24:37.840 --> 00:24:40.696
these things often sadly when especially

00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.696
with 430.

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.416
Councelor Proudful, I'll just ask you

00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.440
not to speak about the 430. We are not

00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.416
here to speak about the 430. We are here

00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.440
to sit to talk about the performance

00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:57.655
draft performance order and what

00:24:57.679 --> 00:25:00.679
submission we are going to make back to

00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.096
the office of sorry the minister's

00:25:03.120 --> 00:25:05.416
office.

00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.576
I'll get back to the thanks madam chair

00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:10.600
for your council. I I'll get back to the

00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.895
um first point the appointment of the

00:25:13.919 --> 00:25:16.919
CEO. Now I was on that panel. I was on

00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.296
the interview panel. I'll warn you

00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:22.775
again. I'll warn you again, Councelor

00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.255
Proudoot. We are not here to talk about

00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:28.279
the recruitment of the CEO or any other

00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.640
position of staff within um the council.

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.775
We are here to talk about providing the

00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.799
evidence in the draft order to the

00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.240
minister's office.

00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:49.336
I go through the motion table the notice

00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:50.856
of intention to issue a performance

00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.255
audit to Shoalhaven City Council under

00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.056
that section of the U government act

00:25:56.080 --> 00:25:57.736
from the minister for local government

00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:00.760
the honorable Ron Hony. Now I read

00:26:01.760 --> 00:26:04.760
through the first 

00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.976
point in the on page seven where he he

00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:09.655
talks about the appointment of the CEO.

00:26:09.679 --> 00:26:11.736
So you it's in the report. So you're

00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:14.296
saying we 

00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:17.320
we can't talk about transparency,

00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:20.216
impartiality and integrity.

00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:21.576
So councelor Proud,

00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:22.696
you don't have that anymore. What you're

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:23.176
saying?

00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.456
No, I'm not saying that at all.

00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.416
Councelor Proudfoot, if you want to add

00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.440
into the submission from the council

00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.936
that will provide which we will go and

00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:35.895
seek um some legal advice as per

00:26:35.919 --> 00:26:37.736
council's

00:26:37.760 --> 00:26:40.760
 direction to the council.  if you

00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.176
have a specific item you want to put in

00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.336
the submission, then you can tell us

00:26:45.360 --> 00:26:48.360
that specific item because all we're

00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.720
doing is accepting the notification in

00:26:52.159 --> 00:26:55.159
schedule one and the actions in schedule

00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:55.736
two.

00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:58.376
Well, my specific item is the experience

00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:00.456
that I was involved with when I was a a

00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.135
member of the panel that selected the

00:27:02.159 --> 00:27:03.096
CEO.

00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:06.056
So, I'm sorry, councelor Proudfoot. I

00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:08.616
will warn you again. We are not here to

00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.640
speak about the performance of any panel

00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.576
for any staff member regardless of who

00:27:15.600 --> 00:27:18.600
they are. We are here to accept schedule

00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.960
one and to ex sorry ex ac ex accept

00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.640
schedule 2. Now I would ask you from

00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.296
refrain from talking about any

00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:31.320
recruitment process and talking about

00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.440
the section 430.

00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:36.535
So if you would like to make a comment

00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:38.856
for the submission in relation to the

00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:40.775
whole order, you're able to make that

00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:42.535
comment which will be passed on to the

00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.416
legal.

00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:47.576
Thanks madam chair. You've gagged me

00:27:47.600 --> 00:27:50.456
again.

00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.480
Council,

00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:56.456
could I just please

00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:59.176
if I may through you, Madam Chair?

00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.496
Um, make reference to the code of

00:28:01.520 --> 00:28:04.520
conduct and section 9.12.

00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.176
Make reference to the meeting code of

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.200
practice as it relates to section 1510

00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:14.679
F. remind councilors

00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:16.616
and I I'll do this as a former

00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.296
politician.

00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:20.375
There has been references made in the

00:28:20.399 --> 00:28:22.296
meeting code of conduct to the

00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:24.616
legislative assembly.

00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.775
Everybody in this room does not have

00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.799
privilege.

00:28:29.840 --> 00:28:32.840
Nobody has privilege in here.

00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.895
I just need to make you all a remind you

00:28:35.919 --> 00:28:37.895
of that because it's very serious what

00:28:37.919 --> 00:28:40.919
is before this council.

00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:44.520
So the mayor quite rightfully is

00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.296
applying the code of conduct to the

00:28:46.320 --> 00:28:49.320
meeting code of practice.

00:28:52.159 --> 00:28:55.159
So I'd also like to ask the gallery to

00:28:56.080 --> 00:28:59.015
refrain from making any comments. Thank

00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.576
you. Um if you continue to make comments

00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:04.056
or outbursts I will ask you to leave the

00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:06.775
meeting. So we'll move now to councelor

00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.799
crystallitis.

00:29:11.919 --> 00:29:14.919
Thank you.  Madame May,  not

00:29:15.520 --> 00:29:17.655
necessarily to speak on this, but the

00:29:17.679 --> 00:29:19.816
couple of questions  regarding point

00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:22.840
four. Um we're asking to invite the the

00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:24.296
minister to come down and meet the

00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:25.655
council as an executive staff. I'm

00:29:25.679 --> 00:29:27.416
wondering to what end would we be

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.816
inviting him? What do we expect to get

00:29:29.840 --> 00:29:30.936
from him?

00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.496
What do we expect from the minister? Um

00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:36.520
I expect that we can um advise him how

00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:39.336
we're going to work with the office

00:29:39.360 --> 00:29:41.176
governor and work with the minister's

00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:43.895
office as we move forward on these. Um

00:29:43.919 --> 00:29:46.456
and if any counselor has a question of

00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.216
the minister they would be able to ask

00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:49.255
that.

00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.816
Can I add to to that council if I may? I

00:29:51.840 --> 00:29:53.576
think one of the the key points in all

00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:54.775
of this and again I haven't been here

00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.015
for the last two years but what I have

00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:58.616
observed in the last few days is the

00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.296
provision of some information that's

00:30:00.320 --> 00:30:01.496
come through like through the ARIC

00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:04.520
process and what have you um you know I

00:30:05.679 --> 00:30:07.255
would like our council to be working

00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:08.856
very collaboratively with the office of

00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.576
local government and the minister and I

00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:13.416
think an invitation for him to come and

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.496
chat particularly with our executive

00:30:15.520 --> 00:30:18.520
staff um in terms of their experience um

00:30:19.120 --> 00:30:21.096
you know I am have been very concerned

00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:22.616
over the last few days and I did express

00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:25.096
this to you all about the impact of this

00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.255
on the professional women and men that

00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.135
we have in our staff and the references

00:30:30.159 --> 00:30:32.456
to systemic

00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.696
um systemic questions about the

00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:36.535
organization its recruitment practices.

00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:38.535
So, you know, not only would it be an

00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.816
opportunity for him to discuss those

00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:41.816
matters obviously also to showcase what

00:30:41.840 --> 00:30:43.576
we're doing from a council perspective

00:30:43.600 --> 00:30:45.895
and I' I'd like him to meet with you as

00:30:45.919 --> 00:30:47.895
councils particularly.

00:30:47.919 --> 00:30:49.816
Understood. Thank you. And  the next

00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:52.840
question relates to  something you

00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.960
said  Mr. CEO about um a future re

00:30:57.919 --> 00:30:59.655
proposed future restructure that doesn't

00:30:59.679 --> 00:31:02.679
exist. Now this is going to form this 

00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:07.336
 notice or this draft that we're about

00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:10.360
to  vote on will form the  the

00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.015
response we give. I note in the next

00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:14.856
meeting and it was mentioned that um

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.535
next ordinary meeting papers are out and

00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:17.895
there's no space for us there to

00:31:17.919 --> 00:31:20.135
actually discuss the specifics of what's

00:31:20.159 --> 00:31:22.456
being said. That's that's very fair but

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.015
should not we be saying as part of our

00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.296
response that there is no future

00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:28.936
restructure um sing single thing items

00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:30.696
like that because at the moment that as

00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.416
a response that's pretty vague.

00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:35.176
Well, I think given that um the

00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.200
intention is if  council is agreeable

00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:41.336
to write to the minister to accept the

00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:43.416
draft improvement order to become the

00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.495
improvement order if a determination is

00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.375
made, we can highlight that in the

00:31:48.399 --> 00:31:51.399
correspondence and continue to showcase

00:31:52.159 --> 00:31:54.216
what has been done internally within the

00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:55.655
organization to the office of local

00:31:55.679 --> 00:31:57.015
government. I'm just not sure that they

00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.816
have that degree of visibility  which

00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:02.840
I think is important. um my reference to

00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:06.440
future restructures from a senior

00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.559
leadership group level and above. So our

00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:12.616
senior managers and the executive

00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.640
leadership team  as you know and it's

00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:17.655
because it's been very public um you

00:32:17.679 --> 00:32:20.375
know that  the former CEO Robin

00:32:20.399 --> 00:32:22.296
Stevens announced a restructure before

00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:24.936
the last council elections  again that

00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.616
was about the number of directorates and

00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.775
the numbers of appointments to

00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.255
directors.  and then of course last

00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:34.135
year we did see  a restructure which

00:32:34.159 --> 00:32:37.159
was concluded just as I started but

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.655
there had been those 52 roles to which

00:32:39.679 --> 00:32:41.255
are referring there was changes in terms

00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.279
of the management structures there so

00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:47.255
you know ultimately I don't have any

00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.056
proposed before me any further

00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:51.736
restructure of our senior leadership

00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:54.760
group and our executive leadership team

00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:58.039
so getting some clarity as to what they

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.255
specifically would like in terms of any

00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.736
proposed restructure. I just, you know,

00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:05.416
need to tease that out with the Office

00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:06.936
of Local Government. But I don't see

00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.960
that as a reason to oppose what the

00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.856
minister is asking of us in terms of

00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:14.936
three very significant compliance

00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.960
reports  as we might employ or recruit

00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:21.416
people over this year. And you know

00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:23.416
again you know we have not been stripped

00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.440
of our recruitment authority but the

00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.096
minister has through the draft order

00:33:29.120 --> 00:33:30.856
suggested a number of changes which we

00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:33.416
are very happy to make in terms of our

00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:35.655
panel makeups throughout the course of

00:33:35.679 --> 00:33:37.416
this year. Hence my advice to you.

00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.495
Understood. Thank you very much.

00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.519
Thank you councelor Boyd.

00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:47.720
Um, I wanted to propose and Ben asked

00:33:47.919 --> 00:33:49.495
the question that I , Councelor

00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.255
Cricotus asked the question I was going

00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.176
to ask because I don't see that there's

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.200
a need for us to talk to Mr. Honig. Um,

00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:58.775
but that's fine. If he comes, I'm happy

00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.799
to talk to him. Um, I'd like to change

00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.200
that um, employ a suitably qualified

00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:09.575
legal professional to just a suitably

00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.599
qualified um, professional. I don't

00:34:12.879 --> 00:34:14.696
think the person needs to be a legal

00:34:14.720 --> 00:34:17.720
person. I think a highly qualified HR

00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.135
person or

00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.159
former manager, experienced um senior

00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.895
public servant would do an equally

00:34:25.919 --> 00:34:28.919
efficient job and perhaps charge less

00:34:29.200 --> 00:34:32.200
money. Um,

00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.320
and I can't see why we can't include

00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.655
when we accept

00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.216
the performance improvement order,

00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:42.696
noting that

00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:45.720
um, it refers to

00:34:46.720 --> 00:34:48.296
restructures

00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:50.216
um

00:34:50.240 --> 00:34:52.936
that that are not planned in the future

00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:55.496
or yeah, not planned in the future or

00:34:55.520 --> 00:34:58.520
words to that effect. It's hard to look

00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:01.880
at it from here.

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:10.696
Thank you.

00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:13.095
Yeah. the um through you mad mayor if I

00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:13.976
may the

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.296
the one of the um confusing elements of

00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.320
the the draft order does relate to

00:35:19.680 --> 00:35:21.416
proposed

00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.440
um restructures which you know obviously

00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.696
 we've had a discussion with the

00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:29.720
executive leadership team about um but

00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:33.800
the I mean again you know if there is

00:35:35.200 --> 00:35:36.296
decisions obviously we're going to be

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.136
doing that in consultation with OG in

00:35:38.160 --> 00:35:40.616
light of the order that's been 

00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:42.296
required of us in draft form at the

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.320
moment. So, you know, to that end, you

00:35:46.640 --> 00:35:49.640
know, I mean, I coming into this role

00:35:49.680 --> 00:35:52.376
really needed to send a clear message to

00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.296
our people that we weren't going to go

00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:56.296
through another extensive restructure

00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.320
given the impact that that had on morale

00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:01.575
and confidence within the organization.

00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:03.815
I did that very and took that very

00:36:03.839 --> 00:36:05.976
deliberate CEO decision to try and

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.896
settle things down. And I have to be

00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:09.496
honest with you, my sense is that it's

00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:12.520
working. Um so you know this situation

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.896
I'm very sensitive to in terms of our

00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:17.416
staff

00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:20.440
you know so I am obviously trying to

00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:23.880
find a way through that in terms of 

00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:25.575
our team verse obviously the

00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.599
requirements of the the order um in

00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:31.656
relation to the point  about a

00:36:31.680 --> 00:36:34.376
suitably qualified HR professional

00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:36.296
versus legal

00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.320
um I you know Again, I'm fairly open to

00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:43.575
that. The only thing that I would point

00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:46.599
about the engagement of a a firm  that

00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:49.815
has

00:36:49.839 --> 00:36:52.616
 the the qualifications legally in

00:36:52.640 --> 00:36:55.640
relation to workplace law is that at

00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:57.575
least it would give us better guidance

00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.599
over issues to do with privacy and what

00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.176
have you. knowing that, you know,

00:37:03.200 --> 00:37:04.696
ultimately there would be a requirement

00:37:04.720 --> 00:37:07.575
of me based on what I suspect will come

00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:09.896
at the next meeting from  councelor

00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.456
Killian that that we do have some

00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.095
engagement with that. And it, you know,

00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.095
the the flip side to that is that, you

00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.256
know, ultimately I want people to apply

00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.280
with confidence to this organization

00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:25.976
 into the future knowing that their

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:27.976
personal and private information along

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.456
with their referees  and for that

00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:32.776
matter the the panel does have some

00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:35.416
degree of legal coverage from our end.

00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:38.440
But you know, I'm I'm open to that.

00:37:40.160 --> 00:37:41.736
you take the word legal out there and

00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.760
appropriate appropriate independent

00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.776
 appropriate independent suitably

00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.575
qualified professional may well be a

00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.136
legal professional. Um they may well not

00:37:52.160 --> 00:37:54.616
be. So I had intended to take the word

00:37:54.640 --> 00:37:56.696
legal out and had to do it. So if you're

00:37:56.720 --> 00:37:59.256
happy with it, I if others I would take

00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:00.456
that one word out.

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.896
So councelor Boyd, are you happy with

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:02.696
that change?

00:38:02.720 --> 00:38:03.575
That's what I was providing.

00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.176
Councelor Kemp, are you happy with that

00:38:05.200 --> 00:38:07.335
change? I'm happy with the change. just

00:38:07.359 --> 00:38:10.216
I'm not happy with it. Um

00:38:10.240 --> 00:38:13.240
I would like proper legal  independent

00:38:13.359 --> 00:38:16.359
advice. Um

00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:17.976
sorry councilors, could I advise you

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.815
just to really speak forward and closely

00:38:19.839 --> 00:38:21.335
into the microphones

00:38:21.359 --> 00:38:22.696
so that people can hear

00:38:22.720 --> 00:38:24.376
because of the sensitivity of what is

00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:25.335
being said with you.

00:38:25.359 --> 00:38:25.656
No.

00:38:25.680 --> 00:38:27.815
Um after a few things that I've been

00:38:27.839 --> 00:38:30.536
through, I would like to have proper

00:38:30.560 --> 00:38:32.936
independent legal advice in regards to

00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.016
my privacy. I think it's very important

00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:38.040
for everybody to at this point. So now I

00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:40.456
refuse. Thank you.

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:43.416
Um councelor I just in response I'm I'm

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.440
very comfortable with the wording

00:38:46.560 --> 00:38:48.696
without legal because it gives me the

00:38:48.720 --> 00:38:51.720
opportunity to make the right call

00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:55.240
um in terms of either a lawyer or an HR

00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:57.815
specialist in terms of that information.

00:38:57.839 --> 00:39:00.055
So it in in many ways broadens my

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.055
capacity as CEO to seek the right advice

00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:05.079
from the right specialist. Um so but I

00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:07.256
do take on board your point about the

00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.280
need for lawyers to to look at specific

00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:12.296
components of this as we progress

00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.320
through this year.

00:39:15.359 --> 00:39:17.736
At least it gives some guidance to the

00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:20.696
CEO in terms of that discretion

00:39:20.720 --> 00:39:23.575
that what councelor Killian has and

00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:26.599
councelor Boyd have suggested.

00:39:28.240 --> 00:39:30.936
Um

00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:33.256
would you differentiate between what is

00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:35.736
um what you would call sensitive

00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.456
information to go to legal in that point

00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.416
in that sense? Yeah, I mean look there I

00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:42.936
mean every day of the week you know we

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.656
we have an internal  you know we have

00:39:45.680 --> 00:39:47.976
an internal  lawyer but at the same

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.000
time you know ultimately um you know the

00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:54.440
council does engage law firms  that we

00:39:54.640 --> 00:39:57.640
have available to us  for various

00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:00.680
reasons across the organization.  so

00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:02.696
you know I don't see this process being

00:40:02.720 --> 00:40:04.856
any different to how we would operate on

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.575
a day-to-day basis. It still gives you

00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:10.599
the option to use legal legal if it's

00:40:11.040 --> 00:40:13.575
sufficiently sensitive. Is

00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:14.616
is that correct?

00:40:14.640 --> 00:40:16.055
Yeah. But I mean specifically in

00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.016
relation to this order um you know just

00:40:19.040 --> 00:40:21.656
having that availability to for example

00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:24.055
engage an HR specialist as well you know

00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:25.736
makes sense.

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:27.496
Okay then I'm happy. Thank you.

00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:30.520
Thank you.

00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.920
Um so we'll go to councelor Wilkins.

00:40:36.560 --> 00:40:39.560
 thanks Madam Chair. In light of 

00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.456
yesterday's development which we're not

00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:44.296
allowed to discuss  which

00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:45.896
significantly elevates the

00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:48.920
investigation, I'd like to foreshadow

00:40:49.040 --> 00:40:52.040
another amendment that we defer today's

00:40:52.560 --> 00:40:54.616
meeting to Tuesday week which is in the

00:40:54.640 --> 00:40:57.416
20-day framework

00:40:57.440 --> 00:40:59.256
because much of what we're discussing

00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.280
today might become redundant or change

00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:05.815
tone. So, I'll point out that next

00:41:05.839 --> 00:41:08.839
Tuesday will be the public forum. The

00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.176
council meeting isn't until the

00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:14.200
following week and the 20th which where

00:41:14.319 --> 00:41:17.319
we've required to respond by um is not

00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:21.400
um in that time frame.

00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:24.376
Development could be seek an extension

00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:27.016
for another week which I say would be

00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:29.575
entirely reasonable.

00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.599
through you madam may I

00:41:32.640 --> 00:41:35.640
in essence two very different processes

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.055
I know on the the face of it it doesn't

00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:39.815
appear that way but they are two very

00:41:39.839 --> 00:41:41.896
different processes

00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.920
um this process

00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:48.040
um also relates to  one issue that a

00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.480
managerial appointment which to I have

00:41:53.520 --> 00:41:55.976
not had been provided with evidence

00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:58.616
internally but also obviously throughout

00:41:58.640 --> 00:42:00.055
correspondence with the government. I do

00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.815
not know the circumstances to which they

00:42:01.839 --> 00:42:04.839
refer. I have I have suspicions as to

00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.960
the matter but um

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.216
you know the performance improvement

00:42:10.240 --> 00:42:13.240
order in its draft form and the actions

00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:17.160
that  are required of us.

00:42:18.319 --> 00:42:20.456
I've made a recommendation that they

00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:23.480
should be adhered to. Um, we have till

00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:26.456
the 20th of February to respond, which

00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:27.976
is why we've called the extraordinary

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.000
meeting today in case you as counselors

00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.055
determine you wanted the council over

00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:35.815
the next week to do something

00:42:35.839 --> 00:42:38.295
differently in terms of our submission.

00:42:38.319 --> 00:42:39.976
Ultimately, any determination in

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.496
relation to the improvement performance

00:42:41.520 --> 00:42:43.575
order, whether it goes through to being

00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:45.736
enacted or not, sits with Minister

00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:48.760
Honik. Um and ultimately um the very

00:42:51.200 --> 00:42:52.696
serious inquiry that was announced

00:42:52.720 --> 00:42:55.720
yesterday has its own separate process.

00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:59.800
So that's why we need to on the basis of

00:43:01.200 --> 00:43:04.200
the  advice from OG and of course the

00:43:05.359 --> 00:43:07.416
direction of the minister respond to

00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:09.335
their time frames. They're theirs.

00:43:09.359 --> 00:43:12.359
They're not ours. So um to that end we

00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:15.736
have till next Friday till the 20th. But

00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:18.760
still they are under the same framework

00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:21.256
even though they may seem to separate

00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.656
issues. They are under the same 

00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:26.680
general banner of investigation.

00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:29.335
So I would still like to explore the

00:43:29.359 --> 00:43:32.359
possibility of seeking an extension and

00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:36.280
deferring for another 7 days. Um yeah, I

00:43:38.560 --> 00:43:40.376
can see what you're asking and the

00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:43.400
intent of it, but the reality is is that

00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.216
there are two separate sections of the

00:43:46.240 --> 00:43:48.055
legislation to which is being applied

00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:50.536
here.  there's a section the section

00:43:50.560 --> 00:43:53.560
430 inquiry which is separate obviously

00:43:53.839 --> 00:43:56.376
to section 438 which is governing this

00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.400
process. So to that end um particularly

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.960
in light of the minister's reference to

00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:07.160
his concerns in relation to point two of

00:44:07.359 --> 00:44:09.575
schedule one which relates to the

00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:12.536
overall systemic concerns to do with the

00:44:12.560 --> 00:44:15.560
council's recruitment processes. Um you

00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:19.400
know I can't see why OG would or for

00:44:19.839 --> 00:44:21.176
that matter the minister most

00:44:21.200 --> 00:44:23.575
importantly  in this decision-m

00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:25.736
process  would change that

00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:27.416
requirement. So we've got to we're

00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:29.496
working to their timetable. That's you

00:44:29.520 --> 00:44:31.815
know how it is  whether we like it or

00:44:31.839 --> 00:44:33.335
not.

00:44:33.359 --> 00:44:36.055
Um and I will just add to that. I did

00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.295
speak to the minister's office in

00:44:38.319 --> 00:44:41.176
relation to today's meeting and he said

00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:43.335
the process that you was discussing

00:44:43.359 --> 00:44:46.359
today is the process of the draft

00:44:47.680 --> 00:44:49.736
performance order. that is the only

00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:51.896
process that we can discuss today under

00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:54.856
this um meeting and that's advice from

00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:56.936
them as well to me and I received that

00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.960
advice yesterday morning. Um I sorry to

00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:03.575
interrupt could I just seek some clarity

00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:06.456
 in terms of this so  just for the

00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.176
purposes of taking of minutes. So the

00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:12.200
foreshadowed motion that was initially

00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.480
flagged in relation to 3 and point 4 by

00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:19.880
councelor um Killian that is being accepted

00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.496
as an an amendment not a foreshadowed

00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:24.055
that's correct

00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:25.896
motion. Okay that's correct. So does

00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.616
that clarify?

00:45:28.640 --> 00:45:30.216
So, it is now the motion before the

00:45:30.240 --> 00:45:31.896
council. Okay. Thank you.

00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:32.295
Yeah.

00:45:32.319 --> 00:45:35.319
Um and then just further to  councelor

00:45:35.359 --> 00:45:37.176
Wilkins, are you are you still

00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:38.856
foreshadowing

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.736
your motion? Okay.

00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.760
Um so, we'll go to councelor Norris.

00:45:46.240 --> 00:45:48.776
Thanks, Mayor White.  in essence of

00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:51.256
wanting to strengthen transparency, I

00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:53.896
have a bit of a question.  in point 4,

00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.696
if we're encouraging the local  the

00:45:56.720 --> 00:45:59.016
minister of local government to engage

00:45:59.040 --> 00:46:01.815
with councilors and executive staff,

00:46:01.839 --> 00:46:04.136
noting there has been a number of

00:46:04.160 --> 00:46:07.160
changes in the time. Should we not

00:46:07.680 --> 00:46:09.976
encourage the minister to be exploring

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.136
conversations with former staff of this

00:46:12.160 --> 00:46:14.616
organization?

00:46:14.640 --> 00:46:17.640
We we can't really compel that. I mean,

00:46:17.680 --> 00:46:20.680
in that sense, you had a chair. I mean

00:46:21.359 --> 00:46:24.216
again that's really up to the minister

00:46:24.240 --> 00:46:27.240
what he does in terms of um you know

00:46:27.520 --> 00:46:30.520
anyone who goes forward  to him. So um

00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:35.480
to that end um yeah I mean I I think

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.896
it's a a sensible thing to do in this

00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:40.295
circumstance. the minister who's clearly

00:46:40.319 --> 00:46:41.815
through this improvement performance

00:46:41.839 --> 00:46:44.839
order and  expressed concern and  to

00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:47.496
that and I think

00:46:47.520 --> 00:46:49.335
you know if I was in issues and I had an

00:46:49.359 --> 00:46:50.696
invitation like this I hope

00:46:50.720 --> 00:46:52.295
can we explore avenues to make that

00:46:52.319 --> 00:46:54.616
contact easier for the minister

00:46:54.640 --> 00:46:55.416
sorry what's

00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.016
without menacing it maybe but can we

00:46:57.040 --> 00:46:58.936
explore avenues to make that contact

00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:00.295
easier for the minister

00:47:00.319 --> 00:47:01.016
100%

00:47:01.040 --> 00:47:02.696
thanks

00:47:02.720 --> 00:47:05.496
councelor Kemp

00:47:05.520 --> 00:47:08.520
there could I request to amend for one

00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:13.400
word invite the honorable Ron Hernig a

00:47:15.200 --> 00:47:18.200
request please.

00:47:20.240 --> 00:47:22.776
I'd like to request him to meet with

00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.575
counselors.

00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:27.335
We can do that.

00:47:27.359 --> 00:47:28.136
It's up to

00:47:28.160 --> 00:47:30.055
Yeah, I'm happy to accept that.

00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:31.256
Thank you.

00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:33.256
I'm assuming you're happy to accept it

00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.280
as you seconded the original motion.

00:47:36.319 --> 00:47:38.055
Yes. as well. Yeah.

00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:40.536
Do I do I have to get a second or I

00:47:40.560 --> 00:47:40.856
don't know.

00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.416
No, no. Um it's it's been accepted and

00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:44.936
forms part of the motion now.

00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:45.815
Council.

00:47:45.839 --> 00:47:48.839
Yeah. Councelor Tri.

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.760
 thank you, Madam Mayor. I

00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.736
largely support the amended motion that

00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.760
is now the motion. Um I could not have

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.055
supported the original  based on the

00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:04.936
second part of part two seeking 

00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.960
evidence. I think many of us have lived

00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:10.776
that evidence. It's not appropriate 

00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:13.800
as we've heard to ask or request that

00:48:13.839 --> 00:48:15.976
particularly as it's dealing with

00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:19.000
confidential information.  I think

00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:23.976
we understand that the minister is

00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:27.000
acting  for good reason and I welcome

00:48:27.359 --> 00:48:30.216
the intervention with open arms. I am a

00:48:30.240 --> 00:48:32.456
little uncomfortable with the new

00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.480
addition to part two that notes it says

00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.136
noting it refers to restructures that

00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:40.376
are not planned for the future. That's

00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.176
something we don't know.  if there if

00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:44.936
they've found evidence to support that,

00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:47.960
I I don't want to suggest it's false. 

00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:50.376
we've seen changes. We're seeing

00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.616
positions advertised. We don't know if

00:48:52.640 --> 00:48:55.640
what's what's being planned.  and so

00:48:55.839 --> 00:48:58.456
I' I'd be uncomfortable putting that in

00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:01.095
there. and suggesting that  somehow

00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:03.736
we're disagreeing with the performance

00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.095
improvement order that we've been

00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:08.119
handed.  so I'm I'm seeking I guess if

00:49:08.720 --> 00:49:10.616
if it's not accepted by the mover and

00:49:10.640 --> 00:49:13.496
seconder to formally move an amendment

00:49:13.520 --> 00:49:16.520
that we remove that part from part two.

00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.575
Yeah. Yep. That's acceptable if you like

00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:21.256
that to be removed. Councelor Kemp, do

00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:24.280
you accept the removal?

00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:34.856
, no. I think I'll I'm happy to leave

00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:37.656
it as it is. Um,

00:49:37.680 --> 00:49:40.376
note that it refers to restructures that

00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:42.376
are not planned in the future. Does that

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.400
inhibit us to in any way?

00:49:46.160 --> 00:49:48.696
Through through you, Madam Chair. Um

00:49:48.720 --> 00:49:51.720
again um  I don't have any issues with

00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.176
what's been suggested by councelor tribe

00:49:55.200 --> 00:49:58.200
to that to that end. I mean we you know

00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:00.535
again we want some flexibility in terms

00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.335
of what might happen or be required in

00:50:03.359 --> 00:50:06.295
to the future and and and don't forget

00:50:06.319 --> 00:50:09.256
that the order relates to

00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:11.656
 what I regard to be members of the

00:50:11.680 --> 00:50:14.136
senior leadership group

00:50:14.160 --> 00:50:15.736
 which are largely the managers

00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:17.575
directly under our executive leadership

00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:20.599
team and above. Um but again I mean we

00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.920
are happy to do more than comply with

00:50:25.040 --> 00:50:28.040
the reports required with OOLG and and

00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:31.256
um to that end you know I would welcome

00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.176
you know that change in terms of what

00:50:33.200 --> 00:50:35.575
council tribe is suggesting there we you

00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:36.856
know the point that I would make is

00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:38.295
we've been through two major

00:50:38.319 --> 00:50:41.319
restructures in the last two years as a

00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:44.440
council. Um there's nothing of major

00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.055
planned in terms of that because I need

00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:50.696
the organization to settle but um you

00:50:50.720 --> 00:50:53.720
know we might you know into the future

00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.295
have suggestions out of our executive

00:50:56.319 --> 00:50:58.136
leadership team which might suggest a

00:50:58.160 --> 00:51:00.055
restructure of their part of their

00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:01.416
director and what have you. So that

00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.440
gives us that capacity and that ability

00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:06.616
um on the basis of what councelor tribe

00:51:06.640 --> 00:51:09.640
is suggesting.

00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.456
Everybody's happy with that then. Um,

00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.376
yep, I'll accept that.

00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:16.616
All right. Thank you, council tribe.

00:51:16.640 --> 00:51:19.016
And I just want to add because the how

00:51:19.040 --> 00:51:21.656
we got here um process was discussed at

00:51:21.680 --> 00:51:23.656
the beginning of this and I realize I've

00:51:23.680 --> 00:51:26.680
raised this privately, but I feel 

00:51:26.720 --> 00:51:28.616
it's important to raise on record

00:51:28.640 --> 00:51:31.575
because people will also be feeling 

00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:33.976
that sense of  what I've been feeling

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.376
which is um very distressed to learn

00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.696
about it the way that we did. And I

00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:40.856
understand it was late Friday. I

00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:43.095
understand there was a weekend  and

00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.736
Monday went by.  but to hear about it

00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.760
secondhand via a clip on a radio program

00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.976
 from someone drip feeding some

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:54.776
information  hearing the speculation

00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:56.776
all day and then receiving formal

00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:59.256
notification Tuesday evening was very

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.575
distressing and I imagine there would be

00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:04.216
other people who would feel that way. So

00:52:04.240 --> 00:52:07.240
 I think we need to do  better as

00:52:07.359 --> 00:52:09.736
been discussed. Transparency is an

00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:12.760
action not a word. And  I I really

00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.815
want to emphasize that  we we do need

00:52:15.839 --> 00:52:18.839
to do better going forward.

00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.119
Thank you councelor Kim.

00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:25.256
No you were fine.

00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:27.335
So is there any further speakers? I'll

00:52:27.359 --> 00:52:30.359
take right a reply. Oh, councelor um

00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:33.016
Clancy,

00:52:33.040 --> 00:52:35.976
I just want to um

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:37.736
say that I acknowledge that this is an

00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:39.815
independent investigation and it's it's

00:52:39.839 --> 00:52:41.496
commenced by the Office of Local

00:52:41.520 --> 00:52:43.575
Government. Um and that means that this

00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:45.736
matter is no longer speculation. It's

00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.760
not commentary. It's not debate. Um you

00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.119
know, it's an actual formal process that

00:52:52.160 --> 00:52:53.736
we're going through right now and we

00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:56.760
should respect that. Um so for me

00:52:57.040 --> 00:52:58.936
supporting this recommendation is about

00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:01.960
stability. It's about um something that

00:53:02.640 --> 00:53:04.856
we've all been working towards as

00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.016
counselors which is stability and

00:53:07.040 --> 00:53:09.016
transparency.

00:53:09.040 --> 00:53:11.416
And um that's what we are here to try

00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:13.736
and achieve. I want us to show the

00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:15.736
community that there are qu when there

00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:17.896
are questions we will allow an

00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:19.736
independent regulator to examine them

00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.216
properly. I have no problems with that.

00:53:22.240 --> 00:53:24.216
I support transparency and that's not

00:53:24.240 --> 00:53:26.376
just a throwaway line. I actually do

00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:28.856
support transparency and I want to see

00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:31.880
that occur during this process. Um if

00:53:32.240 --> 00:53:34.136
the process shows that we need to

00:53:34.160 --> 00:53:36.936
improve in some way then it will be

00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.376
identified through the individ

00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:41.016
independent review and let that occur.

00:53:41.040 --> 00:53:44.040
Let's just get on with it.  you know

00:53:44.640 --> 00:53:47.016
we don't need to escalate anything here

00:53:47.040 --> 00:53:49.815
today. We need to just  I was happy to

00:53:49.839 --> 00:53:52.616
accept the original motion and the

00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:54.936
original  recommendation

00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:57.736
 in the the report. Um I'll see how we

00:53:57.760 --> 00:53:59.896
go after Madame May's right of reply and

00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:02.856
what we land with, but um I'm confident

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:05.880
that we'll make a submission  that's

00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.016
good enough for us to get going and get

00:54:09.040 --> 00:54:10.295
moving for the Office of Local

00:54:10.319 --> 00:54:13.256
Government. And um I think that the

00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:15.016
reasonable course of action is to

00:54:15.040 --> 00:54:17.176
cooperate fully, provide whatever

00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:19.256
information is required and allow the

00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:22.055
investigation to conclude.

00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:23.736
Thank you, councelor Casey. Councelor

00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:25.976
Kellian, um I will just note councelor

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:28.856
Killian that I'm taking that you have

00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:31.176
spoken previously, but that was all for

00:54:31.200 --> 00:54:33.575
questions um and for amendments. So I'm

00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:36.599
happy for you to speak to the motion.

00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:39.800
Madame May. Um, look, I I just wanted to

00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.696
mostly say the senior staff, all of the

00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:47.335
senior staff that  we recognize, I

00:54:47.359 --> 00:54:48.856
think all of us, that this is a

00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:51.256
uncomfortable and difficult situation

00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:54.280
for all of you. I don't think um I don't

00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:56.936
think the processes of recruitment under

00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.736
a fair and equal employment opportunity

00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:02.760
approach are something that we're we're

00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:05.736
 a long way off in our policies here.

00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:08.055
I think they're very strong and I'm

00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:11.079
hoping that  when we investigate we'll

00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:14.376
find it's very clear where there are

00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.456
issues and if there are issues and I I

00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:19.335
just I guess I want to I want to 

00:55:19.359 --> 00:55:21.496
provide some sort of personal support to

00:55:21.520 --> 00:55:23.176
the staff. It must be a very

00:55:23.200 --> 00:55:25.016
uncomfortable position. We have an all

00:55:25.040 --> 00:55:28.040
new um  executive team and it's not a

00:55:29.040 --> 00:55:31.736
happy place to be. So our support and

00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:34.456
our drive for transparency is for your

00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.335
protection and support as well as for

00:55:37.359 --> 00:55:39.896
finding the best outcomes for the

00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:42.920
community of the Shoalhaven. I I will

00:55:43.040 --> 00:55:46.040
just note that um on the other matter

00:55:47.200 --> 00:55:49.256
that we're not able to speak to given

00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:51.335
that we won't have an opportunity to put

00:55:51.359 --> 00:55:53.416
a notice of motion in until the March

00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.295
meeting. I will be approaching the mayor

00:55:56.319 --> 00:55:58.856
and asking that um  it be put up to

00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:00.376
the February meeting as a matter of

00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:02.456
urgency so that we can actually begin to

00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:04.295
discuss that other matter that we're not

00:56:04.319 --> 00:56:07.319
discussing today before 30.

00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:11.896
How do you know that this isn't a happy

00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.216
place for the executives to work in?

00:56:14.240 --> 00:56:15.496
I didn't say it. Well, no, no, it's not

00:56:15.520 --> 00:56:17.496
a happy place under this investigation.

00:56:17.520 --> 00:56:18.376
I didn't say that.

00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:19.976
We're not having a conversation between

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:22.456
ourselves. I'll refer that to the CEO.

00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:25.480
Yeah. Um could I just um thank councelor

00:56:26.319 --> 00:56:29.176
Killian for those words? I can assure you

00:56:29.200 --> 00:56:30.775
that the professional staff over in the

00:56:30.799 --> 00:56:32.616
admin building right now watching this

00:56:32.640 --> 00:56:35.640
meeting. Um this has not been an easy

00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.920
week um because there has been

00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:40.856
reflections made on their

00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:42.616
professionalism

00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:44.376
without evidence.

00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.335
That's what I was referring to. So, I

00:56:47.359 --> 00:56:50.359
really do want to thank you for that and

00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:53.559
and we are with you as counselors. This

00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.599
is one united council team to serve our

00:56:57.040 --> 00:56:59.976
community and our staff um are doing

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.376
incredible work. I I do and quite

00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:05.335
rightfully have a new group of executive

00:57:05.359 --> 00:57:06.856
leaders

00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:09.496
who do deserve every ounce of support

00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:11.016
because we as you will see from the

00:57:11.040 --> 00:57:13.656
business paper that's gone out 

00:57:13.680 --> 00:57:15.496
overnight.

00:57:15.520 --> 00:57:16.775
I'd urge you to go and have a look at

00:57:16.799 --> 00:57:19.799
the quarterly report. There's fantastic

00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.216
outcome starting to happen. In terms of

00:57:22.240 --> 00:57:25.240
director Strauss, she we are now

00:57:25.359 --> 00:57:27.256
improving our DA approval times and

00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:29.095
there's recognition from the state on

00:57:29.119 --> 00:57:31.496
that. So, I'd ask everybody to please

00:57:31.520 --> 00:57:34.520
not not lose sight of the the team that

00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.256
we've got and the outcomes we're

00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:39.176
achieving because they are very positive

00:57:39.200 --> 00:57:41.896
for our community.

00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:44.136
So, if there's no further debate, I'll

00:57:44.160 --> 00:57:47.160
do the right reply. Um,

00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:49.095
I want to thank you all for your

00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:51.335
contribution um and for the amendments

00:57:51.359 --> 00:57:54.359
that you have um provided along the way

00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:56.775
um this morning. Um, I too want to

00:57:56.799 --> 00:57:58.856
really thank the staff. It has been a

00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:01.656
difficult time for the staff and um I

00:58:01.680 --> 00:58:03.976
thank councelor Killian for her words

00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:05.976
and the CEO for their words for the

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:09.000
staff. Um and hopefully everything will

00:58:09.200 --> 00:58:11.335
settle down from here on in um as the

00:58:11.359 --> 00:58:14.359
processes um go through their  things.

00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.736
Um, yes, I know I was late in sending

00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:19.575
out the information, but I knew that the

00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:21.976
general public needed to know what had

00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.000
happened um before it was spread um by

00:58:25.680 --> 00:58:28.680
rumor through this place. I honestly

00:58:29.200 --> 00:58:30.856
went to the minister's office to get

00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:33.016
that evidence that you have all talked

00:58:33.040 --> 00:58:35.176
about this morning and that evidence was

00:58:35.200 --> 00:58:37.496
not forthcoming and I did not receive

00:58:37.520 --> 00:58:39.656
correspondence to that effect or even a

00:58:39.680 --> 00:58:41.176
phone call to that effect until

00:58:41.200 --> 00:58:43.976
yesterday. The business paper had to be

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:47.000
printed so we could get in with the 72

00:58:47.520 --> 00:58:50.520
hours. So that is why there was a delay

00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:54.280
in for it coming out. Um I look forward

00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:57.416
to moving on and  providing the

00:58:57.440 --> 00:58:59.656
evidence sorry providing the information

00:58:59.680 --> 00:59:02.055
that the office of vocal government um

00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:05.079
and the minister have requested.

00:59:05.200 --> 00:59:08.200
Um and I note the public interest in um

00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:11.640
this matter and as we've amended the 

00:59:12.799 --> 00:59:15.176
the amend sorry amended the

00:59:15.200 --> 00:59:17.095
recommendation today well that will

00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:18.856
allow for that to be even more

00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:21.256
transparent and I thank you for the that

00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:24.280
amendment as well. Um, so I will put the

00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:34.535
I'll have those discussions with

00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.016
councelor Kellian during the week and I

00:59:37.040 --> 00:59:38.616
will let you know during the week if

00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:40.936
that is going to how that is going to be

00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:43.960
handled. Um, so with that I'll put the

00:59:44.799 --> 00:59:47.176
recommendation the recommendation is as

00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:49.736
printed on the screen with the

00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:52.760
amendments that have been made. um

00:59:52.799 --> 00:59:55.095
during the debate we've had here this

00:59:55.119 --> 00:59:57.575
morning. Um so it's been moved and

00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:00.599
seconded. I'll ask  to show our hands

01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:03.880
who is in favor of that recommendation.

01:00:04.319 --> 01:00:07.319
So councelor Crystal, councelor Cl,

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:09.496
sorry, Clancy, councelor Norris,

01:00:09.520 --> 01:00:12.136
councelor Boyd, Council Killian,

01:00:12.160 --> 01:00:15.160
Councelor   Mary, you're all out of

01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:18.216
order. That's confusing me. Um,

01:00:18.240 --> 01:00:20.376
Councelor Tribe, Councelor Steel,

01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.400
Councelor Kemp, Councelor  Dunn,

01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:27.000
Councelor White, those who vote against,

01:00:27.200 --> 01:00:29.095
Councelor Wilkins, and Councelor

01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:32.119
Proudfoot. Um, now, um, thank you. I

01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:35.896
declare that recommendation carried. Um,

01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:38.920
I will talk to the staff after this

01:00:39.520 --> 01:00:42.055
meeting. Um because we are going to put

01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:45.016
a submission together, we will probably

01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:47.095
still require an extraordinary meeting

01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:50.119
last on Tuesday night um to endorse the

01:00:51.040 --> 01:00:53.095
submission. Do we need that?

01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:53.976
We don't need that.

01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:55.575
We will just write to

01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:57.736
the minister to let him know the results

01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:00.760
of this meeting as per that. It will be

01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:03.095
a short letter. It will read that you

01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:05.575
know we do not oppose the improvement

01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:08.599
performance order.  Sarah, did do you

01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:11.880
want to add to one app process

01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:16.136
do have the opportunity  to make

01:01:16.160 --> 01:01:17.896
individual submissions to the minister

01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:19.815
should they wish that's in the

01:01:19.839 --> 01:01:21.976
correspondence from the minister?

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:22.535
Yeah.

01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:24.216
Yes. In regard to the performance

01:01:24.240 --> 01:01:26.936
improvement order.

01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:29.176
So I would like to thank you all for

01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:31.095
your participation today and with that

01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:34.119
I'll close the meeting. Thank you.