WEBVTT

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Good afternoon councilors. It being 5:30

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 I'll open the ordinary meeting for

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Tuesday the what are we the 24th of

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February 2026 and welcome everybody

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here I will do the acknowledgement

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for country and I'll also do  the

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national anthem and the minute

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reflection. But following that tonight,

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I'm not going to ask councilors to stand

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when they're speaking because one, there

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is a bit of an issue with the audio, but

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also  it's a bit difficult to get

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chairs in and out, etc. because of the

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floor, etc. So, I'm happy for counselors

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to remain seated when they speak to

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any item tonight they wish to speak

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to. So acknowledgement to country Shoalhaven

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 City Council recognizes the first

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people of the Shoalhaven and the ongoing

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connection to to culture and country. 

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we acknowledge Aboriginal people as the

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traditional owners, custodians and

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lawkeepers of the world's oldest

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living culture and pay my respect to

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 elders past, present and

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emerging. So we'll now have a minute

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reflection.

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Thank you counselors. We'll now have the

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national anthem. Thank you.

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Australians.

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all let us rejoice for we are one and

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free

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with golden soil and wealth for toil

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Our home is girt by the sea.

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our land abounds in natures gift of beauty

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rich and rare in history's page let every stage

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Advance Australia Fair

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in joyful strains then let us sing Advance Australia Fair

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Thank you counselors.

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So I understand through the CEO that we

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have received an apology for tonight.

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Correct councelor Ben Crystal is

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an apology for this evening.

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Thank you.

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So can I have somebody move the

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apologies, please? Councelor Norris,

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councelor Boyd. Anybody wishing to vote

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against the apologies?

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I declare those carried we'll know

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 now there is nobody online tonight.

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So there's no confirmation of the visual

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attendance so can the confirmation

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of previous minutes for 27th of January

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and the 13th of February.  can I have

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a mover please?

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Councelor Casmiri, Councelor Kemp,

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anybody wishing to vote against? No I

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declare those carried. Declarations of

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interest.

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Councelor Proudfoot.

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Item number CL 26.16.

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I'm declaring a pecuniary interest as 

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our family have a house in the Sussex

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Inlet Gulf Village.

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So, can you just state if  it's

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significant? Are you going to leave the

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room?

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No, it's pecuninary interest.

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Yep. So, you're leaving the room?

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Oh, yeah.

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Thank you. Any other declarations of

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interest at this time?

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No. All right. Thank you Councelor

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Proudfoot presentation of

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petitions.

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No petitions. Thank you we'll go on

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to Mayoral minutes, but before I go on to

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Mayoral minutes, there's two addendum

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reports. One is an addendum report for

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the Mayoral minute, and the second

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one is in relation to

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 the addendum report from the finance

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committee from last week. So, can I have

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a mover and a second to introduce those

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addendums? Councelor Norris, Councelor

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Clancy, anybody wishing to vote against

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the introduction of the addendums? I

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declare that carried. So we'll now go to

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the Mayoral minutes. There are two meal

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minutes. One of the first Mayoral minute is

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MM26.2.

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Mayoral minute 2026 Australia Day honors.

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So we're just I'm just recognizing the

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Australia Day honors  that

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were given out on Australia Day.

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 and the lucky recipient was in Berry

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who's done a huge amount of contribution

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to the Berry community um and across the

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Shoalhaven. So, do I have a seconder?

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Councelor Wilkins. Do I have anybody who

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wishes to speak to the mayoral minute?

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Yes, Councelor Wilkins.

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You don't need to stand.

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Can I stand?

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You can if you want.

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I prefer prefer to stand. Thank you,

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Madam Mayor well Ken Hut 

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just a standout community member his

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Fly from Everest documentary was

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unbelievable

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 and still worth viewing. The

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ambition, the dedication, the will, the

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journey um all in the aid of the 

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end polio now campaign and he's been a

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significant contributor to that and a

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fundraiser through paragliding

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activities. In fact, he's just returned

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from Argentina a few weeks ago where um

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he and a team paraglided off Argentina's

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highest mountain, which I can't

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pronounce, but at 6,950

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m. That's  that's incredible. And his

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Australia Day honor, he was  extremely

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 honored to receive that and grateful.

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Um he received a call from the the

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governor general and  he did go to a

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high tea. He said he'd never been to a

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high tea before. It was his first high

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tea at the fraternity club in Wollongong

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and he will be visiting a government

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house in um in April. I mean he's a

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dedicated  community member or

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Rotarian. If you call him up he'll 

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he'll come and fix anything at your

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house, a bridge or a fence or whatever.

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and currently his next project is the 

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long awaited Berry  dog park. Now, it

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would have been great to be on hand on

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Australia Day to wish him well, but  I

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was otherwise engaged after 3 years um

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as an ambassador and an MC in the Shaw

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Haven over the last seven years. I was

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on Australia Day ambassador duties in

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Kobar at 47° mind you. But um  the

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spirit was  definitely with  Ken

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Hutt.  what an outstanding contributor

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the to the community. Congratulations.

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Thank you councelor Wilkins. Councelor

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Proudfoot. You wish to speak?

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Yes, thanks Madam Chair. I too

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congratulate Ken Hut on his  award and

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 and all the great work that he has

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done over quite a period of time. I

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would like to correct the record, Madam

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Chair, when  an uninformed member of

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the press said I was missing an action

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on Australia Day. Well, I tell you how

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missing I was. My wife and myself cook

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an Australia Day barbecue for 6 hours

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each.  raising money for the the local

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RFS. So, if missing an action means

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you're doing that for the community, I

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plead guilty. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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Thank you. Any further comments? If not,

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I'll put the recommendation. Anybody

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wishing to vote against? I declare that

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carried unanimously. The second meal

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minute is MM26.3,

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a meril minute to acknowledge the 12

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month anniversary of the passing of Ery

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Montgomery. So councilors that were here

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during last year will know that we had

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that um tragedy over at the grotto at

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North Narrow where um little Ary fell

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off um the edge of the cliff. It's

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coming up for 12 months. Councilors will

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remember at the time we put some letters

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to the state government and also a meal

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minute in relation to um establishing

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 a facility at Drexel Park for a leaf.

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She her parents were in this week

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talking to staff in relation to that um

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park. It is also  they've created

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their foundation. and they're just

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waiting for final sign off to come back

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from the federal government on that sign

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off. And I just want to recognize um

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Eile um she had some um autistic needs

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um at the time or and this park will go

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a long way to helping people with um

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autistic needs um in the Shoalhaven. Um

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so those who don't know where Drexel

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Park is, it's up behind Haven Lee

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School. Um so I just want to pass this

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meal minute to recognize that it is 12

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months um that since her passing. Do I

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have a seconder? So council Norris

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um do I have anybody wishing to vote

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against?

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So um I will just now um declare that

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carried and we'll just have a moment of

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reflection for little air's um life.

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Thank you councilors.

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So we'll move on. So  there are no

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presentations. We had the deputations

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last week and thank you councelor

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Wilkins for chairing that meeting on my

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behalf.  we'll move on to the notices

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of motion. So the first notice of motion

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is  CL 2616

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notice of motion Sussex inlet Golf

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Village. So councelor Proudoot your

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declaration.

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So, do I have a second for the notice? M

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councelor Clancy. Um, so I've put this

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notice of motion forward um on behalf of

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the Sussex Inlet residents and

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communities. Um, the Sussex Inlet golf

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course, it's only a ninehole golf, no, I

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think it's 10hole golf course now, um,

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is out there and is really well used and

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respected by all the residents that live

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out there.  it's part of the

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development which was part of the

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original Ralph Lucas developments out

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there and um he  is in the process of

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finalizing that to sell it to another

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developer. What becomes at risk is that

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the development that the golf course may

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be developed into housing um which is

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something that the community does not

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want. Currently the golf course is run

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by volunteers um and it is has a huge um

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turnout each week um and especially

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because Sussex Inlet is one of our aging

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communities. There are a lot of people

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who um undertake the um the recreational

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activity of golf. So I'm just putting

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the recommendation. This has come to

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council several times in years gone by.

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Um council has been asked to buy this

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golf course which we have not done cuz

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it's not our business. Um, but I just

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want to reiterate that um, it is part of

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that community down there. Um, and we

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don't necessarily want a planning

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proposal to come into council to

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redevelop that whole golf course. Um,

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there is still further land down there

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to be developed around the golf course,

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but we just want I just want people ,

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the council to show its support that we

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still support the residents of Sussex

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Inlet to maintain their golf course. Um,

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anybody wishing to speak?

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If not, I'll put the recommendation.

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Anybody wishing to vote against?

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I declare that carried unanimously. Can

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we have Mr. Proud Foot back, please?

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So we'll now go to CL 26.17

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notice of motion invitation to

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councilors to attend ward meetings and

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consultations.

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Councelor  Boyd and councelor seconded

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by councelor Tribe. Councelor Boyd.

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Yes. I was I will stand up because I

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need to so I can get the microphone. Um

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I was motivated to submit this notice of

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motion so councilors have the

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opportunity to be included in meetings

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or gatherings on council related matters

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in their ward particularly um before

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Christmas and the reason I have done

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this is because before Christmas

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councelor Killian and myself were

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invited to attend a community meeting at

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Sussex Inlet. The business chamber, the

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CCB and various tourism providers and

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individuals were concerned about works

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to be undertaken to stabilize the banks

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on the inlet in front of their

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properties. Um they were concerned that

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they hadn't been consulted about the

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method to undertake the stabilization

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um that was to be used. This this was

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contrary to the relevant um coastal

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management plan which clearly calls for

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consultation. Um, we agreed to write to

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the CEO suggesting he and relevant staff

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meet meet with them to expl so they can

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explain their concerns and potentially

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resolve these issues which they were

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pretty angry about and and we did that.

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We wrote to the CEO. Um, the meeting was

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held with the CEO and the mayor and the

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relevant staff as I well I I presume

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relevant staff went. I don't know. Um,

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but we but councelor Killian and I

00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.615
weren't told we weren't informed. we

00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:02.856
weren't told the meeting was on and I

00:16:02.880 --> 00:16:04.456
have no idea what the outcome of the

00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.216
meeting was or how the issues were

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.240
presented or resolved. Um in other

00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.055
words, the loop wasn't closed for us,

00:16:12.079 --> 00:16:14.536
which is an issue that rate payers are

00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:17.560
commenting on regularly. Um I personally

00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:20.296
believe that we have a and I think it's

00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.320
in our um remitt to we have a

00:16:23.680 --> 00:16:25.735
responsibility to understand the issues

00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:28.136
raised with council and counselors

00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:30.216
especially those that come to a council

00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.696
meeting for decision.

00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:34.935
 similarly with consultation sessions

00:16:34.959 --> 00:16:36.776
held in our wards I'd like to receive an

00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:39.255
invitation as a matter of course without

00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:41.336
having to ask every time that there's

00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.055
something that I I would like to go to.

00:16:44.079 --> 00:16:46.216
Um, I want to know what people are

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.055
people in the community are saying about

00:16:48.079 --> 00:16:50.136
particular issues so I can make the make

00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:52.536
an informed decision on plans and

00:16:52.560 --> 00:16:55.495
strategies that council is developing. I

00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.016
don't expect I'll attend every meeting

00:16:57.040 --> 00:16:58.776
or gathering in my ward on council

00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:00.296
matters, but I would like to be given

00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.696
the option. I certainly don't expect

00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.376
that all counselors would choose to

00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.295
attend these meetings in their wards,

00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:07.895
but at least they should be provided

00:17:07.919 --> 00:17:10.055
with the opportunity.

00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.216
Um, this proposal can only enhance

00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.616
informed decision making by councilors

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.856
and I urge everyone here today to

00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.576
support this motion.

00:17:19.600 --> 00:17:22.295
Thank you, Councelor Boyd. Any further

00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.319
speakers?

00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.535
Councelor Proudoot.  Madame Chair, I'd

00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.296
like to ask the mover and the secondary

00:17:30.320 --> 00:17:33.320
if they're prepared to amend the motion

00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.240
on the basis that for example

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.775
um the Bay and Basin area I'm a I was

00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.336
elected as a ward 2 council or the

00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:46.360
Bayern Basin area as 

00:17:47.520 --> 00:17:50.520
ward two  and ward three  for

00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:55.096
example the boundaries at Sanctuary

00:17:55.120 --> 00:17:57.015
Point. So therefore St. George's Basin,

00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.039
Basin View, um parts of Tomearong of

00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.799
Ward Three. Um in fact, there's parts of

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.880
Ward One up near Jervis Bay Road. So,

00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.216
the point I'm making is that if you just

00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.296
get asked to your own ward, you can

00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:14.696
still miss out on on some vital meetings

00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.256
that  take place in your your own

00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:20.136
area. And so, I'd like to see if that

00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.535
could be broadened that the invitations.

00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.136
It's pretty simple to send invitations

00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:27.160
out. All councils get invited to these

00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:29.816
particular meetings irrespective of the

00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:32.376
ward. If the if the mover and the second

00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.936
would at least consider that  it'll

00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.535
give me greater comfort rather than just

00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:37.976
say well you can once you get to the

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.655
sanctuary point boundary stay out of St.

00:18:39.679 --> 00:18:41.176
George's Basin. It doesn't doesn't make

00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.416
any sense.

00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.216
So councelor Aboid are you happy to make

00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:47.496
that alteration?

00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:49.096
I have the same problem as Bob. I'm

00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:50.936
quite happy to make that alteration.

00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.655
All right. Councelor Tribe. Yep. So

00:18:53.679 --> 00:18:56.679
instead of instead of um invite relevant

00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:00.440
ward counselors, we'll just take out the

00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.535
words relevant ward just invite

00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.136
counselors. Are you happy with that,

00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:05.096
councelor Proudoot?

00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:06.216
Thank you.

00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.616
Yep. So

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.640
any further discussion?

00:19:11.679 --> 00:19:14.679
Councelor  Kemp and then Council

00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.696
Wkins.

00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.936
Thank you, Madame May. Just a question.

00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.096
I'm trying to understand.  I'm under

00:19:21.120 --> 00:19:23.576
the um impression that you can't have

00:19:23.600 --> 00:19:25.816
the meeting unless that person's on the

00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:28.456
contact list. Is that right?

00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.480
So um I'll ask the CEO. Um

00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:34.216
sorry, can I can I just seek clarity,

00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:35.576
councelor Kemp, in terms of your

00:19:35.600 --> 00:19:35.976
question?

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.616
So unless the a counselor is on that

00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.616
contact list, they they can't have the

00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:43.176
meeting unless they're on the contact

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:43.736
list.

00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:45.096
The staff member.

00:19:45.120 --> 00:19:47.176
The staff member, do you mean?

00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.496
No. All counselors.

00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:51.096
Yeah. Yeah, I mean look, we will follow

00:19:51.120 --> 00:19:53.736
the resolution that um is moved here

00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:56.760
this evening. Um the only observation um

00:19:57.520 --> 00:19:59.176
that I would make is if they were

00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.496
council initiated

00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:03.576
meetings or not, I think that's

00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:05.655
important because if for argument's

00:20:05.679 --> 00:20:07.496
sake, if

00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:08.936
you know it's a community group that

00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:10.456
just asked specifically for a staff

00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:12.856
member to go absent counselors for

00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.216
whatever reason that might or might not

00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.296
be, I think I wouldn't mind if just

00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:18.535
seeking some guidance from you all in

00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:21.559
terms of that. um in relation to council

00:20:21.679 --> 00:20:23.895
initiated as opposed to

00:20:23.919 --> 00:20:26.919
that's my concern whether it's a meeting

00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.256
that they don't want particular

00:20:29.280 --> 00:20:31.895
counselors there or do we take away

00:20:31.919 --> 00:20:34.376
decisions from their

00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:35.096
into our hands

00:20:35.120 --> 00:20:36.696
yeah no I mean I I don't want to see

00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.256
councilors discriminated against I think

00:20:39.280 --> 00:20:41.256
you know one in all in in that sense so

00:20:41.280 --> 00:20:43.496
that it's fair for everybody but if for

00:20:43.520 --> 00:20:46.376
argument sake a community committee or

00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:49.096
whatever might be just request

00:20:49.120 --> 00:20:51.655
 out of their initiation for a meeting

00:20:51.679 --> 00:20:53.096
with professional staff. I mean, one of

00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:54.376
the gray areas here is obviously

00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.936
anything that relates to a DA

00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.936
 specifically. So, we just obviously

00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.655
have some obligations around that. But,

00:21:01.679 --> 00:21:04.679
 as  councelor Boyd indicated, if if

00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:07.655
counselors are making a representation

00:21:07.679 --> 00:21:09.416
on behalf of the community and then it

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.056
does result in a consultation, it's only

00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:15.080
fair that you all be invited. , I

00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.015
think that's the intent of the amendment

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.416
and and where the the council is wanting

00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:20.535
to head. But

00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:22.535
I would ask just if it's okay just to

00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:25.496
stipulate that it's council initiated as

00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:26.775
opposed to

00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.336
that's yes

00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:29.816
a private group or you know whatever

00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:30.775
seeking a meeting on

00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.176
would I to make an amendment and would

00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.200
that be acceptable?

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.799
Do you think it makes amendment?

00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.256
So I'm not sure what the exact amendment

00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:45.096
that did the council initiated. So

00:21:45.120 --> 00:21:45.655
council just

00:21:45.679 --> 00:21:48.679
just to cover ourselves there is

00:21:50.320 --> 00:21:51.416
which we've done there.

00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.736
Yeah. So it's being changed where we've

00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:56.056
changed it to council is to council

00:21:56.080 --> 00:21:59.080
initiated meetings that will that will

00:21:59.120 --> 00:22:00.376
cover us there.

00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:02.296
Okay. Thank you. Thank you madam.

00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:04.856
Councelor Wilkins.

00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.376
Not sure whether this should be part of

00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.400
the general CCB discussion, but in

00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:12.456
principle you'd support this. But this

00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.480
should be an opportunity to streamline

00:22:15.520 --> 00:22:18.520
the  the operation and the interaction

00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.799
of councilors with the CCBs and why not

00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.256
put up the possibility of of having a

00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:28.280
roster so you have one member perhaps at

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.856
every CCB. you get a situation where

00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.015
some CCB meetings don't have any

00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.176
counselors. Admittedly, there'd be the

00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:39.336
smaller ones and others you go there and

00:22:39.360 --> 00:22:42.056
there's four or five perhaps. And that

00:22:42.080 --> 00:22:45.080
seems to me to be  not a waste of

00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.135
resources, but you could apply them  a

00:22:48.159 --> 00:22:50.216
little bit better. And then if the

00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.056
councelor, let's say, if we set up a

00:22:52.080 --> 00:22:54.616
roster perhaps for all the CCBs, then

00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.936
that appointed counselor or the mayor

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.960
then files a report on that particular

00:23:00.080 --> 00:23:01.576
meeting. So, I'm not sure whether I'd

00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:03.736
like to make that as an amendment or set

00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:06.535
that aside for a further discussion, but

00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.015
um the point being I think we could

00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.416
streamline  the operation and then

00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.440
give  notice well in advance  of

00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:17.096
who's going, who's not, and u and have a

00:23:17.120 --> 00:23:17.895
roster.

00:23:17.919 --> 00:23:18.376
Please.

00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:18.696
Yep.

00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:19.096
Thank you.

00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:21.576
I'll just refer that to the CEO.

00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:23.736
Um again, councelor Wilkins, I think

00:23:23.760 --> 00:23:25.895
that's a an excellent suggestion.

00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:27.895
However, the only problem that we have

00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:29.976
is that we don't initiate the CCB

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.000
meetings or manage their meetings in

00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.039
that sense. Um and you know again I mean

00:23:37.600 --> 00:23:39.895
I'm very keen to make sure that if we do

00:23:39.919 --> 00:23:42.056
know of when CCB meetings are in advance

00:23:42.080 --> 00:23:44.376
that the entire councilors are part of

00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.056
that and that's again part of I think

00:23:46.080 --> 00:23:48.216
the consultation that needs needs to

00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:50.056
happen because at the moment they're not

00:23:50.080 --> 00:23:52.775
inviting all counselors to the meeting

00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.799
even in some circumstances counselors to

00:23:56.080 --> 00:23:57.736
um the CCB meetings that might be

00:23:57.760 --> 00:24:00.535
happening in a particular ward. Um I'd

00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.416
also note that um further to that one of

00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:05.576
the things which might clarify and help

00:24:05.600 --> 00:24:08.216
with this  is obviously in terms of

00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:09.976
the community engagement policy of the

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.576
council as well and whether that

00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:14.056
application could apply here and that's

00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:15.496
a recommendation that's come through

00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:18.520
from from governance as well.

00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.960
So is there any further discussion?

00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.240
So I I will just point out I agree 100%

00:24:29.520 --> 00:24:31.655
um with what council boy has said in

00:24:31.679 --> 00:24:34.216
relation to councilors going to meetings

00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.376
um with the communities but the

00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.400
communities do invite specific um

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.000
counselors. So if yeah you if there

00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:45.255
specific counselors just for a bit of

00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.736
direction for me um if specific

00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:49.976
counselors are being invited do you want

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.696
me to notify you that what counselors

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:54.696
are being invited to those meetings

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.720
because um there when requests come in

00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.616
um there are specific requests and who

00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.015
is going to be invited so that's open

00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:05.655
for another discussion um but I just

00:25:05.679 --> 00:25:07.416
point that out and um thank you

00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:10.216
councelor boyd for raising it  do you

00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.240
want write a reply by council void.

00:25:13.679 --> 00:25:14.216
Um,

00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:14.616
no,

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.216
no. I think we've covered it fairly

00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:16.856
well.

00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:17.736
All right. So,

00:25:17.760 --> 00:25:20.216
I think the issues related to the CCBs

00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:22.616
can be referred to our workshop that is

00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:23.895
scheduled for Thursday.

00:25:23.919 --> 00:25:25.736
Yep. That's that's the next

00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:27.096
I don't think there's anything stopping

00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:29.576
counselors now from arranging a roster

00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:32.056
amongst their ward colleagues and we do

00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:33.976
when there's um two on on the same

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.096
night. So,

00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:38.056
or day whatever.

00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:39.336
All right. So with that, is there

00:25:39.360 --> 00:25:41.015
anybody wishing to vote against the

00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.816
recommendation? So council Kemp is

00:25:43.840 --> 00:25:45.736
voting against the balance of voting in

00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:48.760
favor. Um I declare that carried. So

00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.039
we'll move on to CL 26 .18 notice of

00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.880
motion greening our city grant  grant

00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.480
for 102 trees process and implementation

00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:03.320
council Kemp. Do I have a seconder?

00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.640
Councelor Casmir.

00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:14.600
Thank you, Madame May. Um,

00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.640
okay. I submitted this notice and motion

00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:21.320
because I am hoping that we can improve

00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:23.655
the communication

00:26:23.679 --> 00:26:26.679
and settle um a lot of people in the

00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:29.496
community as far as

00:26:29.520 --> 00:26:32.296
um the issues with trees and and I'll

00:26:32.320 --> 00:26:35.176
always work on that. It's um my passion.

00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.736
Um so my notice of motion is pretty

00:26:37.760 --> 00:26:39.576
self-explanatory.

00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:42.600
Council should decide which trees to

00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:45.576
plant in car parks versus potential or

00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.600
existing infrastructure damage by

00:26:49.120 --> 00:26:51.496
employing a right tree in the right

00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:53.576
place strategy

00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:56.296
which balances urban greening goals with

00:26:56.320 --> 00:26:59.096
the risk of infrastructure damage. This

00:26:59.120 --> 00:27:01.496
should involve strict assessment of the

00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:04.520
tree species, root habits and sightsp

00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:07.960
specific constraints.  utilizing tools

00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:11.015
like tree master plans and route

00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.039
barriers to minimize damage to pavement

00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.559
asfelt curbs etc. As we know it it's

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.936
very expensive for car parks, curb and

00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.960
guttering  or the toilet blocks. Um,

00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:28.936
can I

00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.576
Yes, please. So, I've just taken some

00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:33.736
photos within a kilometer range. It was

00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:36.376
a quick decision just as I was going

00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:38.696
down to Coohl's just to have a look

00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:41.336
across the car park there. That's right

00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:44.360
opposite Coohl's in Aladala. Um, you can

00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.616
see rather large gum tree there just

00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.640
pushing that curb out the concrete.

00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.296
There's the tree roots there. You can

00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:57.015
see what it's doing to that um curb that

00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.039
was obviously upright at some point. Um

00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:02.936
they're outgrowing their space. They're

00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:05.576
struggling for water and they do go

00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:08.296
looking for water. Um the the tree

00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:11.320
species is important because it goes

00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:13.895
under the pavement under the spelt

00:28:13.919 --> 00:28:16.856
resulting in expensive repairs that the

00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:19.880
rateayers are paying for.

00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.336
There's one on a lean there. And it's

00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:25.576
taking, you can't see that in the

00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:27.895
picture, but it's it's taking the curb

00:28:27.919 --> 00:28:29.895
and the whole side of the road guttering

00:28:29.919 --> 00:28:32.375
out with it as the tree roots come up.

00:28:32.399 --> 00:28:35.399
Next, please. That I don't know what

00:28:35.600 --> 00:28:37.336
that is, but I found that as I was

00:28:37.360 --> 00:28:39.976
walking back to the car. It's a massive,

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.000
deep, big hole with tree roots in it.

00:28:43.360 --> 00:28:45.976
um at that exact site there two years

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.616
ago. I was present when an elderly

00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.640
gentleman had a fall there. Um everybody

00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:54.456
was standing around. I won't go into

00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:56.696
details, but he he'd hurt himself really

00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.416
bad on that guttering. Um and the tree

00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.895
roots that he tripped on. Um I rang an

00:29:01.919 --> 00:29:03.976
ambulance. It was quite disturbing for

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:06.616
the onlookers and everybody. But this is

00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:09.015
an issue that's current right now and

00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:11.496
it's full of tree roots. It's a from

00:29:11.520 --> 00:29:14.056
what I can see a rather deep hole at

00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:15.895
least up to your knees should you fall

00:29:15.919 --> 00:29:18.856
in it in the dark with low lighting. Um

00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.880
again that's come from the tree roots.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.775
Next please.

00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.799
Okay that amenities block is down Cooh's

00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:30.936
car park.

00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.416
That's a lovely tree but it's in the my

00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.736
opinion the wrong area again right next

00:29:35.760 --> 00:29:38.760
to um the vigorous nature of the tree.

00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:42.056
gum trees particularly, they will drive

00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:44.616
themselves to look for water source and

00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:46.696
that water source is those amenities

00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.496
there. They cost a lot of money as we

00:29:49.520 --> 00:29:51.255
know and rate payers will continue to

00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.655
foot this unless we have a look at the

00:29:53.679 --> 00:29:55.895
policy and work around it to keep

00:29:55.919 --> 00:29:58.856
everybody happy. Um, it creates extra

00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.336
work. You can see the guttering, not the

00:30:01.360 --> 00:30:03.655
guttering, the little concrete thing

00:30:03.679 --> 00:30:06.056
there that goes behind the tree. It's

00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:08.696
all lifted up from the car park as well.

00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.936
So, I'm talking about the plumbing

00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.416
damage, everything. The ruining of the

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.440
amenities block there. Next, please. ,

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.960
that one is hard to see. ,

00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:24.360
yeah, you can see the rather large main

00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.736
route there coming up towards the

00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:30.696
pavement. Again, um, it's going towards

00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.336
the toilet block as well. remembering I

00:30:33.360 --> 00:30:36.360
live in Aladala, so I didn't have to go

00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.456
far to get these photos for you. It was

00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.096
a 5-minute job. But when we're talking

00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:44.120
in a radius of 1 kilometer from, you

00:30:44.159 --> 00:30:46.856
know, where I live, um I haven't even

00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:48.856
mentioned what it does to pavers and

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.336
trip factors around town because that's

00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:54.360
another another meeting.  and lifting

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.696
up pavers and stuff and damaging

00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.296
infrastructure.

00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:01.320
Next, please.

00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.720
Yep. So, you can see the angle of that

00:31:06.159 --> 00:31:09.096
concrete curb. It's actually tilted

00:31:09.120 --> 00:31:12.120
towards a parked car there. , that's

00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.176
where the gentleman fell over and hurt

00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.336
himself pretty badly.

00:31:17.360 --> 00:31:19.416
Um, excuse me, councelor Kemp, your time

00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:20.375
is up.

00:31:20.399 --> 00:31:21.976
Oh,

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.056
so extensions been moved by councelor

00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:25.496
Proudfoot. Do I have a seconder?

00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:27.736
Councelor Steel. Those wishing to vote

00:31:27.760 --> 00:31:30.616
against an extension of time.

00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.336
, councelor Killian is voting against

00:31:33.360 --> 00:31:35.416
an extension of time the balance vote in

00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.976
favor. So continue councelor.

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.176
Thank you.

00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.255
Okay, I'll move rather quickly. That's

00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.416
um the damage and the cost to replace

00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.440
that by rate payers next. Um is there a

00:31:47.760 --> 00:31:50.760
next one? Yeah, just flip through that.

00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.856
Yeah, so you walk from Coohl's into the

00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.416
Borie Street car park there. Is there

00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.440
next please, Ben?

00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.039
Yeah, you can see the shift damage there

00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.056
liability.

00:32:08.080 --> 00:32:10.775
Next, that's it. Done. Okay. So, I also

00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:12.135
went up I don't know if you see when

00:32:12.159 --> 00:32:13.816
news, but I also went up to the top of

00:32:13.840 --> 00:32:16.840
Harris Harris Scarf's car park at the

00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:19.176
back there. Another council own and

00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.976
amenities block. Um those photos aren't

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.056
on there, but there's a very large gum

00:32:24.080 --> 00:32:27.080
tree and there's even worse damage there

00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:28.856
than the ones that I've put on the

00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.880
stick. So look, um

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.296
it is shown in the photos on the

00:32:34.320 --> 00:32:35.976
presentation that we may not have

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.000
selected the right species back then.

00:32:39.919 --> 00:32:42.535
Um all I'm trying to do is highlight

00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:44.216
that they what they do to the

00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:45.976
infrastructure like toilet blocks

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.976
costing the rateayers in the years

00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.895
ahead. So, we don't want to be planting

00:32:49.919 --> 00:32:52.696
tomorrow's disasters. I'm very thankful

00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:55.720
for the grant and and I'm looking

00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:58.760
forward to that. Um, safety to rateayers

00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:00.535
should also be a part of the tree

00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:03.416
planting. , they they shouldn't drop

00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.440
large limbs and damage to cars or people

00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.576
in the car park. Bush fire risk we have

00:33:09.600 --> 00:33:12.216
to take into account. It's important to

00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:14.375
highlight that. We appreciate the grant,

00:33:14.399 --> 00:33:16.696
but I want these trees to survive. First

00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:18.616
and foremost, I'm grateful for these

00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.640
trees, but I want them to survive to get

00:33:21.679 --> 00:33:24.679
the maximum effect from the grant.

00:33:25.120 --> 00:33:28.120
Um, I it's no use planting them and

00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:30.616
walking them, walking away from them.

00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:33.096
We've got to consider the future. I

00:33:33.120 --> 00:33:35.255
believe any affected persons close to

00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:38.216
these intended sites should also be part

00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.096
of the positive outcome to provide shade

00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:44.120
in this program. Um we just heard from

00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:46.375
councelor

00:33:46.399 --> 00:33:48.936
Boyd there say that she would like to

00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.416
involve

00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:54.375
um more people to residents to be

00:33:54.399 --> 00:33:56.375
consulted about stabilizing a bank.

00:33:56.399 --> 00:33:58.616
Well, I'd like people to be consulted

00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.176
about if a mature gum tree is going to

00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:03.495
be put out the front of their shop

00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.895
resident. Um, this can be a huge

00:34:05.919 --> 00:34:07.655
positive for the future with bringing

00:34:07.679 --> 00:34:10.216
this notice of motion to council if we

00:34:10.240 --> 00:34:12.296
look back on the current damage to

00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.016
infrastructure and move forward together

00:34:15.040 --> 00:34:17.575
in a positive way to maximize the effect

00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:19.815
of this grant with all the factors that

00:34:19.839 --> 00:34:22.135
I've raised tonight. I'm looking forward

00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.936
to being a part of that. Thank you.

00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.936
Thank you, Councelor Kemp. Councelor

00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.456
Boyd.

00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:31.480
Um, thanks Councelor Kemp. Um, and

00:34:31.520 --> 00:34:33.736
thanks for the further explanation and

00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:35.575
the fact that you welcome this grant

00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.256
because that isn't apparent in this

00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:40.280
notice of motion. Um, I think it's a

00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.176
fantastic um, grant and I'd like to

00:34:43.200 --> 00:34:46.200
congratulate staff on getting this grant

00:34:46.879 --> 00:34:49.815
and also thank them for the very

00:34:49.839 --> 00:34:51.575
comprehensive application that was

00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.176
written that tells us exactly what

00:34:53.200 --> 00:34:56.200
species they are that that that will be

00:34:56.399 --> 00:34:57.896
planted and where they're going to be

00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.136
planted because I think it's exactly

00:35:00.160 --> 00:35:02.296
where I would plant trees and they're

00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.176
really nice trees. So, I look forward to

00:35:05.200 --> 00:35:07.256
this being implemented.

00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.815
Um, and

00:35:09.839 --> 00:35:12.839
I'd like to I'd actually like to um

00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.880
delete all the stuff about making

00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:19.176
reports. We want to focus on planting

00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:21.575
trees with this

00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.896
grant. We don't want to waste not waste

00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.616
money but divert money to administrative

00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:28.856
tasks that's are going to take away from

00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.736
the planting of the trees.

00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.760
I'd like to um propose an amendment

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.936
that we delete.

00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.815
Is it up on the board? The delete 1.1

00:35:41.839 --> 00:35:43.256
and replace with that council

00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.095
congratulates the staff involved in

00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.575
securing the greening our city grant,

00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:49.496
one of only 24 councils that was

00:35:49.520 --> 00:35:51.815
successful and notes the appreciation of

00:35:51.839 --> 00:35:53.416
the community for the proposed

00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:55.335
improvements to hotspots in our towns

00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:57.815
and villages. And I'd also like to

00:35:57.839 --> 00:35:59.656
delete two and three and replace with

00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:01.496
that council staff continue to seek

00:36:01.520 --> 00:36:02.936
further federal and state government

00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.536
grants to improve the environment and

00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:07.560
livability of our towns and villages.

00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:12.216
So are you in agreement with that

00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:15.240
councelor Kimpation?

00:36:15.839 --> 00:36:18.296
Thank you madame mayor taking out one

00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.256
two and three.

00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:20.536
So you disagree with that?

00:36:20.560 --> 00:36:22.456
I disagree. Yeah. So I'll rule that

00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:24.136
that's a foreshadow because you're

00:36:24.160 --> 00:36:26.856
actually changing the whole intent of

00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.416
the existing recommendation from

00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.216
councelor Kemp. So I'll take that as a

00:36:32.240 --> 00:36:34.136
foreshadowed as we move forward.

00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:35.896
I also want to add that those trees in

00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.776
those photographs are really old trees

00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.800
and they would have been planted 20 30

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.536
years ago as little tiny seedlings and

00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:46.616
probably the care wasn't taken in those

00:36:46.640 --> 00:36:48.776
days to plant the appropriate tree

00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.296
species.

00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.320
Mhm. Thank you, Councelor Killian.

00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.616
Stay seated. Um, look, I first of all,

00:36:58.640 --> 00:37:00.216
I'd like to start by apologizing to

00:37:00.240 --> 00:37:02.776
Councelor Kemp for chishly voting

00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.216
against her extension of time. Of

00:37:04.240 --> 00:37:05.496
course, she should have had an extension

00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:08.520
of time. I I I do apologize for that.

00:37:09.359 --> 00:37:10.376
Just an apology.

00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.400
Um, and I I um I think I was looking at

00:37:14.720 --> 00:37:17.720
the trees and I recognize that there are

00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:20.696
some concerns there. Those trees are

00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:23.720
decades old and I think they fall into

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.136
the category that the period between

00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:28.616
when we planted great big really really

00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:31.640
unsuitable European trees and and the

00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.936
more  careful and modern way that it's

00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:36.856
done now. This is the in between period

00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:39.880
and so um they're old trees and yes

00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:43.560
there are some issues there. I um I have

00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:46.616
been inundated since this appeared in

00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:49.640
the paper. Everywhere I went with people

00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.400
saying it's really important that we get

00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:56.680
shade into our into our towns and we

00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.416
really love this grant. We want to

00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.296
support the staff's application for it.

00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.320
I think that by there's a there's a

00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:08.055
great deal of detail both in the

00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.776
submission and in and from the funding

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.800
body in terms of the guidelines that we

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.856
can be confident that what will be

00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:19.880
planted will be appropriate and I would

00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.856
not like to see us spending staff time.

00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.815
We know how tight staff time is. We know

00:38:25.839 --> 00:38:27.736
we've got vacancies and we've got

00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:29.736
difficulties in getting through the

00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.760
workload. So, I would like to see us not

00:38:33.359 --> 00:38:36.055
undertake the things in in section

00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:37.896
three. And I think that certainly for

00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:39.575
me, and maybe that's just because I'm a

00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.496
greens counselor, perhaps people who

00:38:41.520 --> 00:38:43.256
like trees are going to come to me and

00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:45.335
say what they think. I although I do

00:38:45.359 --> 00:38:47.575
encourage people who don't like trees or

00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:49.416
don't like greens policies to come to me

00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.376
as well and argue. But I have had a lot

00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.400
of approaches about strong encouragement

00:38:56.160 --> 00:38:59.160
for this. And I am concerned that maybe

00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:02.200
if there's the level of concern that

00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:05.016
councelor Kemp I'm sure is is hearing

00:39:05.040 --> 00:39:08.040
from community maybe what we need to do

00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.216
with without spending too many staff

00:39:10.240 --> 00:39:13.240
resources is publicize the good the the

00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.416
the science about trees and how they

00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.736
help our communities and publicize the

00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:19.496
science that goes into choosing our

00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:22.216
trees. So, um, you know, that would be

00:39:22.240 --> 00:39:24.216
something that I think might allay some

00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:26.456
of the the fears and concerns of people

00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.480
who who worry about, um, trees. So, I

00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:32.376
think that's probably all

00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.856
count. Thank you. I've got you down,

00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:36.856
councelor C. So, I'll go to councelor

00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.880
tribe.

00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:43.640
, thank you, Madame Mayor. I can't

00:39:43.839 --> 00:39:46.696
support this motion. It it feels very

00:39:46.720 --> 00:39:49.016
much like the micromanaging of expert

00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:51.416
staff to me. I think the background says

00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:54.216
it all in terms of um strategically

00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:56.696
planted technical services teams

00:39:56.720 --> 00:39:59.176
involved, the qualified tree officers

00:39:59.200 --> 00:40:01.335
and  following on from earlier

00:40:01.359 --> 00:40:03.335
remarks. I think we've learned a lot in

00:40:03.359 --> 00:40:06.359
in the last 30 years. Um our deputy

00:40:06.640 --> 00:40:08.296
talked about the greener neighborhood

00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:10.055
guide which is an interesting read and a

00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:11.815
bit of a blueprint for councils in this

00:40:11.839 --> 00:40:14.216
space and talks about  these very

00:40:14.240 --> 00:40:17.240
subjects  that no doubt our staff are

00:40:17.680 --> 00:40:20.616
aware of. Um and I wanted to point out

00:40:20.640 --> 00:40:22.376
that some of the areas now as listed

00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.456
there the narrow CBD master plan

00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:27.480
actually calls for a a green isle in in

00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.536
its master plan too. So, , I think

00:40:30.560 --> 00:40:33.496
it's also fulfilling some of those those

00:40:33.520 --> 00:40:35.896
broader community plans that we have.

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.920
Um, I I look for a tree to park under

00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:42.055
actually. Um, in the the heat that we've

00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.216
got at the moment, , all of these

00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:46.776
things help to um, reduce the heat and

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.800
improve well-being um, and ,

00:40:49.839 --> 00:40:51.496
particularly in the urban areas that are

00:40:51.520 --> 00:40:53.016
mentioned there. So, I I want to

00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:55.656
congratulate staff on um going through

00:40:55.680 --> 00:40:58.136
this process and  and winning us this

00:40:58.160 --> 00:41:01.160
grant to help improve um the well-being

00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:04.536
of our communities and  and I have

00:41:04.560 --> 00:41:06.856
full trust in their expertise in this

00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.456
matter.

00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.936
Councelor Casemary,

00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:11.976
thank you.

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.815
Thank you.

00:41:13.839 --> 00:41:16.839
I support this motion primarily because

00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.960
I believe that the time has come for us

00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.176
to have a serious conversation about

00:41:25.200 --> 00:41:27.016
trees.

00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:29.976
 we have many many rules about why you

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.536
cannot cut a tree. Many many rules why

00:41:32.560 --> 00:41:35.560
you cannot touch a branch of a tree. But

00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:38.696
there is no rules about who can plant

00:41:38.720 --> 00:41:41.720
where and what and where and when. And I

00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:44.696
can give you more examples than you can

00:41:44.720 --> 00:41:46.776
count. And I can point you to a place

00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.335
called Plantation Point as an example.

00:41:49.359 --> 00:41:51.736
Right? People just planted and planted

00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:54.536
and planted to the point that places

00:41:54.560 --> 00:41:56.856
like Collingwood Beach, must we call it

00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.016
Collingwood Bush now because there's

00:41:59.040 --> 00:42:01.095
thousands of trees planted on the beach.

00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:02.776
The point that I'm making is I'm not

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.095
against trees and I do support very much

00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:07.896
the fact that they are a role to play in

00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:10.920
our environment but there has to be some

00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:14.136
rules where anybody can plant anything

00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:16.776
anywhere but then if you want to touch

00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:18.776
that tree that you planted you're

00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:20.696
treated like a criminal to the point

00:42:20.720 --> 00:42:22.936
that you get fined you get you know

00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.095
that's why I believe that we have to

00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.016
have that conversation and I'm only

00:42:27.040 --> 00:42:29.496
using this motion as an example to

00:42:29.520 --> 00:42:31.256
express my view on

00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.976
And as far as the grand concern, I I I

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:35.736
second what the other counselors are

00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.536
saying. Well done for stuff. But one

00:42:38.560 --> 00:42:41.560
thing and I apologize if I trim the

00:42:41.680 --> 00:42:44.376
matter but one thing that I wondered how

00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.456
did you get the state government come to

00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:49.256
their conclusion that we qualify for

00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.280
more trees when we are on 4,560

00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.760
kilometers of which 85% is covered by

00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.599
trees being 3,800 square kilometers and

00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:03.815
martial some websites give it up to 1

00:43:03.839 --> 00:43:06.136
million trees per square kilometer which

00:43:06.160 --> 00:43:08.055
means that in Shivven

00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:11.079
each right power has 75,000 trees to his

00:43:13.359 --> 00:43:15.736
green account. So the point that I'm

00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:18.760
making is that I believe that the motion

00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.616
has got merit so we can have the

00:43:22.640 --> 00:43:24.616
discussion about what are the rules

00:43:24.640 --> 00:43:27.640
about what and where and when.

00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:29.815
Thank you madame.

00:43:29.839 --> 00:43:32.055
Thank you councelor Casmary. Councelor

00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:35.079
Norris.

00:43:35.359 --> 00:43:37.815
Um, a question before I contribute if I

00:43:37.839 --> 00:43:38.456
may.

00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.095
Um, councelor Camp showed some photos

00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:44.119
with um with trees making doing some

00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.480
damage as we all saw. Um, in this grant

00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:49.896
there is  the project will involve the

00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.696
installation of soil vaults and cells.

00:43:52.720 --> 00:43:54.776
Can staff tell me will those soil vaults

00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.800
and cells protect the new trees that are

00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:00.616
appropriately suited from doing that

00:44:00.640 --> 00:44:03.640
damage in 20 30 years time?

00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:06.760
Mr. McB.

00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.335
Yes, that's the design of this project.

00:44:09.359 --> 00:44:12.359
So you have 480,000 and we're doing 102

00:44:13.040 --> 00:44:14.856
trees. So there's a significant amount

00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:16.856
of work goes into planting each tree

00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:18.456
where they'll dig up the pavement,

00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:20.456
create quite a large area and put these

00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:22.616
faults in. um that will allow the roots

00:44:22.640 --> 00:44:24.776
to grow in the direction that um we need

00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:26.536
them to grow in. And then you can still

00:44:26.560 --> 00:44:28.616
put your hot mix over the top and allow

00:44:28.640 --> 00:44:30.936
the trees to grow exactly where we want

00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:33.960
to so that they won't make that type of

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.976
um arrangement we saw on the screen just

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.000
earlier. Um and we'll create a um a tree

00:44:39.520 --> 00:44:42.520
that is specific to that site um that

00:44:42.640 --> 00:44:45.640
will suit that area.

00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:49.095
Thank you. Um, so taking that on board

00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:51.335
and I do I really appreciate councelor

00:44:51.359 --> 00:44:53.496
Kemp for bringing this notice of motion.

00:44:53.520 --> 00:44:54.856
We have serious problems throughout the

00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:56.136
Shoalhaven with trees that were

00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:58.936
inappropriately planted decades ago.

00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.016
It's a fact. You go from Aladala to

00:45:01.040 --> 00:45:03.736
narrow to Berry, you see them. And I

00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:05.016
don't think that we should be shying

00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:06.696
away from the fact that yes, bad things

00:45:06.720 --> 00:45:08.456
have happened over time which have made

00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:10.376
trees uproot and upend our

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:11.976
infrastructure that we now need to go

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:13.416
back and pay for and that our residents

00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.256
are now responsible for. So, that's

00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.095
something we absolutely need to bring to

00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:19.736
light and be responsible for. Um, but

00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:21.416
the thing that I find really good about

00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:23.335
this grant, and I really appreciate why

00:45:23.359 --> 00:45:25.416
this grant's come forward, is that this

00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.496
is putting in appropriate trees. It's

00:45:27.520 --> 00:45:29.176
putting in appropriate plantings. It's

00:45:29.200 --> 00:45:31.016
putting in the right infrastructure that

00:45:31.040 --> 00:45:32.936
accommodates them, that makes them sit

00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:35.176
in the space. So, I really do apologize,

00:45:35.200 --> 00:45:36.456
councelor Kemp. I cannot support your

00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.295
notice of motion, but I'm confident that

00:45:38.319 --> 00:45:39.736
our staff will move us in the right

00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:41.335
direction, and that we won't have this

00:45:41.359 --> 00:45:42.856
problem in 20 to 30 years with these

00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:44.776
trees. Thank you.

00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.800
Thank you, Councelor Clancy.

00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:54.136
Thank you, Madame Mayor.

00:45:54.160 --> 00:45:56.536
Um, first of all, yeah, I wanted to

00:45:56.560 --> 00:45:58.295
thank staff as well and congratulate

00:45:58.319 --> 00:46:00.776
staff on the effort that it would have

00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:03.335
taken to um go through the process in

00:46:03.359 --> 00:46:05.656
receiving this grant. I did also notice

00:46:05.680 --> 00:46:08.680
it was, you know, one in 24 um councils

00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.936
across the state to receive it. So

00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:13.896
that's a huge um effort on staff's

00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.920
behalf and deserves acknowledgement. Um

00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:19.656
in regards to the notice of motion, the

00:46:19.680 --> 00:46:21.976
recommendations, yes, it will be

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:25.000
administratively heavy and um I I tossed

00:46:25.520 --> 00:46:27.896
and turned about that, but we are all

00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:30.920
most of us are new counselors and um I

00:46:31.359 --> 00:46:33.416
don't think that um getting that

00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:35.095
information for the first time on a

00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:37.416
project that we don't really know much

00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.496
about. It's fascinating. I've done some

00:46:39.520 --> 00:46:41.095
research on it and it's absolutely

00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.896
fascinating what is going to happen. Um

00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.920
I don't think it's really um an issue

00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:51.240
for me to expect that um you know one of

00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:54.136
my colleagues would like those reports

00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:56.456
back. So I I will be supporting the

00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:59.480
notice of motion. Um I'm I've spoken

00:46:59.680 --> 00:47:01.976
about it before on the floor of council

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.000
that um I'm a huge supporter of our

00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.335
adopted native species list that we have

00:47:07.359 --> 00:47:10.359
here in the Shoalhaven. Um we respect

00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:13.720
the adopted species list and we do um I

00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.055
believe we are have transitioned into

00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:18.856
only purchasing and using appropriate

00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:21.656
trees from that list um for all of our

00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:23.656
development areas and all of our urban

00:47:23.680 --> 00:47:26.536
canopy preparations. Um the only thing

00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:29.335
that you know I would like to see us

00:47:29.359 --> 00:47:31.016
doing now and I believe that will

00:47:31.040 --> 00:47:33.976
probably fall out of this report is in

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.936
20 years time we don't want our pre you

00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:39.815
know future generations to be going and

00:47:39.839 --> 00:47:41.176
sitting here doing the same thing that

00:47:41.200 --> 00:47:43.095
we're doing and going oh what's going on

00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.256
with the urban canopy the same problems

00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:47.496
happening.

00:47:47.520 --> 00:47:49.575
So, um, you know, there's perhaps a

00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:51.976
register of some description of the

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.295
trees that we're planting so that, um,

00:47:54.319 --> 00:47:55.815
you know, we can track them. It might

00:47:55.839 --> 00:47:57.656
even be something interesting for the

00:47:57.680 --> 00:48:00.295
the community to have a register of

00:48:00.319 --> 00:48:03.256
where these trees are and have, um, have

00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:04.936
them online so that we can actually

00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.016
track where these trees are. And people

00:48:07.040 --> 00:48:10.040
like our greens counselor um, might

00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.055
actually want to see how the progress of

00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:14.216
the trees are going. And there might be

00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:16.055
a bird's nest in there one day. and we

00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:17.496
can put one of the little cameras in

00:48:17.520 --> 00:48:20.136
there and watch the birds grow and the

00:48:20.160 --> 00:48:22.936
eggs hatch and fly away. You know,

00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.896
there's lots of things that um this

00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:27.815
project will bring to the community. And

00:48:27.839 --> 00:48:30.839
I think it's a really good um notice of

00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:33.656
motion in terms of drawing out

00:48:33.680 --> 00:48:35.656
information for new counselors

00:48:35.680 --> 00:48:38.680
particularly um but even experienced

00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:41.496
counselors um on a project that we just

00:48:41.520 --> 00:48:44.520
don't really know much about. So, it's

00:48:44.720 --> 00:48:46.856
it's a lot of  good information that

00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:48.856
we'll get. Thank you.

00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:51.880
Thank you, Councelor Wilkins.

00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:55.800
Mayor, one really appreciates the

00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:59.095
heartfelt motion from councelor Kemp.

00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:01.656
The heart is definitely in the right

00:49:01.680 --> 00:49:03.575
place.

00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:05.976
But life's tragedy is that we get old

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.000
too soon and wise too late.

00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:10.856
That wasn't me. That was Benjamin

00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:13.176
Franklin. But it does relate to this.

00:49:13.200 --> 00:49:15.575
Decisions were made years ago. I have

00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.456
confidence that the council staff will

00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.176
plant the trees in the right place

00:49:21.200 --> 00:49:23.896
without having a noose around their

00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:26.776
neck. So, and time and money and

00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.800
whatever. So, um I I support I support

00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:34.696
the the motion and its heartfelt intent,

00:49:34.720 --> 00:49:37.720
but I have confidence in staff.

00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:41.335
So, is there any further speakers? If

00:49:41.359 --> 00:49:43.976
not, I'll weigh into the debate as well.

00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.136
Um, first of all, I want to thank the

00:49:46.160 --> 00:49:48.456
staff and I want to thank the staff for

00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.216
answering the questions that councelor

00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:52.616
Boyd put up today, which were very good

00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:55.640
because it's the first time um since

00:49:55.680 --> 00:49:57.496
this notice of motion was put into

00:49:57.520 --> 00:50:00.136
council that I've actually seen the

00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:03.095
report of what is going to be planted um

00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.896
how it's going to be planted. So, um

00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:08.456
thank you for that. And I've heard the

00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:10.856
discussion on decade old planting of

00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:13.256
trees. Let me tell you about a little

00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:15.736
story that happened less than two years

00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:18.760
ago. So council decided to buy some

00:50:19.680 --> 00:50:22.680
Norfolk pines. It was the staff. It had

00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:24.776
nothing to do with counselors. They were

00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.936
going to plant those Norfolk pines down

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.575
in Molly Reserve behind the surf club.

00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:32.456
So they went and put them in. And then

00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:34.696
the complaints that were received and

00:50:34.720 --> 00:50:37.416
bearing in mind Molly Milok  reserve

00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:39.496
across the road is the cemetery so we

00:50:39.520 --> 00:50:41.095
wouldn't have got any complaints out of

00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:44.119
there but there were so many complaints

00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.575
they had to be moved so again didn't

00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:50.055
come to council so this was all done by

00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:51.976
a private contractor that private

00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.456
contractor took them to Sussex Inlet and

00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:57.256
they planted them on Elm Moose Reserve

00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:59.815
mind you in Salt Marsh now I'm not

00:50:59.839 --> 00:51:02.136
talking 20 years ago I'm talking in

00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:04.776
recent times and they planted it through

00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.800
the salt mass etc. There was outrage by

00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:11.400
Sussex inlet again planted by a

00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:14.295
contractor on before council. So then

00:51:14.319 --> 00:51:16.856
they had to be removed again and they

00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:19.575
ended up out at Shoalhaven Heads. So

00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:22.535
these trees were moved three times in

00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:25.559
the space of about three months. The

00:51:25.839 --> 00:51:28.776
cost to council was enormous. There was

00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:31.736
no community consultation. Yes, I agree

00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:33.496
with this notice of motion. We should

00:51:33.520 --> 00:51:35.095
know what's going and where and where

00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:36.696
it's going, especially when we're

00:51:36.720 --> 00:51:39.016
accepting a $488,000

00:51:39.040 --> 00:51:42.040
grant. There is no problem with giving

00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.416
any counselor or the community at that

00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:48.440
um at that point letting them know what

00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:50.696
has been happening. If you're following

00:51:50.720 --> 00:51:52.936
what's happening in the wards, plantings

00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:54.856
have happened out at Grimwall Point,

00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:56.856
which the community is outraged against

00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.736
and have pulled out that many times. It

00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:02.216
is not funny and they just keep getting

00:52:02.240 --> 00:52:04.776
replanted. That has been in this term of

00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:06.856
council. The same thing has happened out

00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.176
at Shoalhaven Heads. And at Shoalhaven

00:52:09.200 --> 00:52:11.416
Heads, we've had to take the measures of

00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:13.896
putting cameras in the trees to stop

00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:16.920
people from pulling them out. So, we do

00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:19.016
need to know where we're planting trees

00:52:19.040 --> 00:52:22.040
because it is quite a em a motive um

00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:26.040
issue out there in the community. So, we

00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:28.456
do need to and I would ask the staff

00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.616
that the documentation that was put in

00:52:30.640 --> 00:52:32.696
the council portal today is made

00:52:32.720 --> 00:52:35.335
available to the community because the

00:52:35.359 --> 00:52:37.815
community then would have a better idea

00:52:37.839 --> 00:52:39.736
of exactly what we're doing and we would

00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:42.295
be consulting with them. Yes, we can

00:52:42.319 --> 00:52:44.136
learn from the past and we should learn

00:52:44.160 --> 00:52:46.856
from the past and in recent times as

00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:48.936
within the last 12 months we are still

00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:51.960
doing what we were doing previously. So

00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.616
I support the recommendation because we

00:52:54.640 --> 00:52:57.095
need to know what is happening and if we

00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.335
did put some education out there about

00:52:59.359 --> 00:53:01.095
what we were planting where we were

00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:03.896
planting it then maybe we wouldn't have

00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:05.896
some of the complaints etc that we are

00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:07.976
getting into council in relation to

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:11.000
trees. So any further speakers?

00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:14.520
Councelor Kemp, write a reply.

00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.575
Thank you very much, Madame Mayor. Um,

00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:19.896
look, the whole issue I'm seeing after

00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:22.136
hearing councilors and yourself, Madame

00:53:22.160 --> 00:53:24.456
Mayor, is that there is a lack of

00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.016
consultation, communication, and that's

00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:30.040
an identifiable area that I can see that

00:53:30.240 --> 00:53:32.535
we we could do better to build back

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.176
better. Um,

00:53:35.200 --> 00:53:37.256
I I'm seeing people like I get a lot of

00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:40.280
tree calls from people with issues that

00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:43.575
that haven't been resolved and and I'm

00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:45.976
trying to help be that bridge in between

00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:48.136
and I want to be able to be on my term

00:53:48.160 --> 00:53:51.160
of council fixing the issues regarding

00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:54.535
the problem with the trees. Um, this

00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:56.456
motion was a very simple motion. It was

00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:58.696
nothing to do with all that. But that's

00:53:58.720 --> 00:54:01.720
a good point moving forward that um what

00:54:01.839 --> 00:54:04.839
I get out of it is communication. As I

00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:07.880
said, I'm not against trees at all and I

00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:11.256
won't be called a tree hater

00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:14.280
um when it's simply all positive. I

00:54:14.319 --> 00:54:16.456
don't understand why anybody that, you

00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.456
know, declares they're on a green

00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:21.480
council that that wouldn't support this

00:54:21.680 --> 00:54:24.535
because all we're saying is

00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.776
undertake community consultation with

00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.016
anyone that's affected. I thought that

00:54:29.040 --> 00:54:32.040
would just be a given that you just talk

00:54:32.240 --> 00:54:34.616
to people and communicate the issues,

00:54:34.640 --> 00:54:37.640
the problems, and resolve that. Um, I

00:54:38.640 --> 00:54:40.376
thought this was a good notice of motion

00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:42.696
because it sat right smack in the middle

00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:45.656
of both sides. I thought this was a good

00:54:45.680 --> 00:54:48.680
motion that would help calm the

00:54:48.720 --> 00:54:50.616
community down because someone's got to

00:54:50.640 --> 00:54:52.616
do something and I'm happy to keep

00:54:52.640 --> 00:54:55.640
working at that. Um it's interesting

00:54:55.680 --> 00:54:58.216
councelor Wilkins when you say you you

00:54:58.240 --> 00:55:00.936
know you had so many tree concerns in

00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:03.256
Campbell Wara and areas in the beginning

00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:06.280
and now you've changed that that well

00:55:06.319 --> 00:55:08.856
I'm trying to fix this and I'm asking

00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:10.936
for your support

00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:12.535
um

00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.016
to build back better. I want to watch

00:55:15.040 --> 00:55:17.656
these 102 trees and how many actually

00:55:17.680 --> 00:55:19.496
survive because I've heard in the past

00:55:19.520 --> 00:55:21.496
most don't.

00:55:21.520 --> 00:55:24.520
I want them to survive. So I'm asking

00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:27.095
that we talk, that we communicate, and

00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:28.856
that we do get the most out of this

00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.880
grant, and that is that they survive.

00:55:34.160 --> 00:55:35.815
I don't think there's a person who

00:55:35.839 --> 00:55:38.839
doesn't like trees. The problem happens

00:55:39.359 --> 00:55:41.016
when they're put in the wrong place and

00:55:41.040 --> 00:55:43.575
they become a problem. Otherwise,

00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:45.016
everyone happy to go about their

00:55:45.040 --> 00:55:47.256
business. It's not their life focus.

00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:49.176
It's only when they become a problem.

00:55:49.200 --> 00:55:51.416
And that is something that we all must

00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:54.440
in my opinion work on to be able to

00:55:54.799 --> 00:55:57.736
settle this community down

00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.216
and stop spending so much money on the

00:56:00.240 --> 00:56:02.535
maintenance. And it doesn't matter if

00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:05.559
you put tree trees in root balls and and

00:56:06.160 --> 00:56:08.616
barriers of plastic and they will search

00:56:08.640 --> 00:56:10.775
for water. They will break down concrete

00:56:10.799 --> 00:56:13.799
pillars as we've seen. It's the type of

00:56:14.160 --> 00:56:17.160
tree in my opinion and it's the species.

00:56:17.359 --> 00:56:20.295
And I'm asking that you all support this

00:56:20.319 --> 00:56:23.319
to be able to work ahead to reg provide

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.480
canopy with a better understanding and

00:56:27.839 --> 00:56:30.376
communication and consultation. Thank

00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:31.815
you.

00:56:31.839 --> 00:56:34.839
Thank you. So with that, I'll put um the

00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.295
recommendation as printed on the paper

00:56:38.319 --> 00:56:41.319
and as on the board. So um

00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:44.775
we do have councilors for and against.

00:56:44.799 --> 00:56:47.256
So I'll ask for the um councilors voting

00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.136
four um to start please raise your

00:56:50.160 --> 00:56:52.856
hands. So councelor White, councelor

00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:54.936
Clancy, councelor Casmir, councelor

00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:56.936
Wilkins, councelor proudoot, councelor

00:56:56.960 --> 00:56:59.575
Steel, councelor Kemp, those voting

00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:02.136
against councelor Norris, councelor

00:57:02.160 --> 00:57:05.160
Boyd, Councel Killian, Council Tribe. Um

00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:09.559
I declare that carried. Thank you.

00:57:09.839 --> 00:57:12.839
We'll now move on to CL 26.18,

00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.256
notice of motion. Oh, sorry. We've just

00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.335
done that one. I've changed the page.

00:57:19.359 --> 00:57:22.055
Um, CL 26.19,

00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:24.936
notice of motion, a safer cities grant

00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:27.095
opportunity council tribe. And do I have

00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:28.775
a seconder?

00:57:28.799 --> 00:57:31.799
Councelor Casmiri.

00:57:33.359 --> 00:57:35.095
, thank you, Madame Mayor. Who doesn't

00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.815
like free money?  there are some

00:57:37.839 --> 00:57:39.896
grants up for grabs that only councils

00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:41.736
can apply for which is why I'm I'm

00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.295
putting it forward and  it also

00:57:44.319 --> 00:57:46.216
happens to be that this could address a

00:57:46.240 --> 00:57:49.240
very real need that we have and we all

00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:51.095
know that safety is a hot topic in the

00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.119
narrow CBD at the moment and if we can

00:57:54.319 --> 00:57:57.095
do something to improve that that

00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:59.095
perception and that feeling of safety

00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:00.775
particularly for vulnerable populations

00:58:00.799 --> 00:58:03.736
in the CBD and  and it won't cost us

00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:06.456
anything then  then I I hope 

00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:08.535
everyone can help get behind that and

00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:11.559
and support it. Um there are very

00:58:11.680 --> 00:58:13.176
particular things that you can apply for

00:58:13.200 --> 00:58:16.136
and I've I've suggested fesune lighting

00:58:16.160 --> 00:58:18.535
is is one of those that's listed  in

00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:21.176
the guidelines but  obviously I will

00:58:21.200 --> 00:58:23.496
leave the  the operational side of it

00:58:23.520 --> 00:58:25.815
to staff to to look over that and I I do

00:58:25.839 --> 00:58:27.416
understand from a former staff member

00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:29.256
actually that there are plans drawn up

00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:31.815
for such a thing  in the narrow CBD.

00:58:31.839 --> 00:58:33.575
So hopefully it's a matter of pulling

00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:35.335
something out of the drawer and  and

00:58:35.359 --> 00:58:37.976
applying for this.  as I said, it will

00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:40.216
improve  that sense of safety, but

00:58:40.240 --> 00:58:43.240
also add um that sense of vibrancy and

00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:46.920
and really lift the area that needs it

00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:49.960
 the most.  it does part of the

00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:52.535
grant does require it to be in and

00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:54.856
around a transport precinct. So I'm

00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.335
suggesting the Stewart Place bus

00:58:57.359 --> 00:59:00.055
terminal as a result. And um anyone who

00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:01.656
knows the area will know there's lots of

00:59:01.680 --> 00:59:03.256
little laneways that sort of come off

00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.896
that and it can be applied within an 800

00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.815
meter radius which I think would capture

00:59:07.839 --> 00:59:10.616
those. So I am promoting the merits of

00:59:10.640 --> 00:59:13.016
this  to you all and saying that it is

00:59:13.040 --> 00:59:15.656
a need that we have. Um it would be an

00:59:15.680 --> 00:59:18.295
incredible addition to our CBD at no

00:59:18.319 --> 00:59:21.319
cost to us a and I understand that um we

00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:24.136
already have sort of floated plans for

00:59:24.160 --> 00:59:26.055
this and drawn up those in the past. So,

00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:28.535
I'm hoping it's also  quite little

00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:30.936
inconvenience  to staff as well, but I

00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:33.656
I commend the motion to you.

00:59:33.680 --> 00:59:35.176
Thank you. Any further speakers?

00:59:35.200 --> 00:59:37.656
Councelor Kemp.

00:59:37.680 --> 00:59:40.680
Thank you, Councelor Tribe. Um

00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:43.976
just a question if if there's any

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.936
costing to council.

00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:49.656
If so, how much contribution council has

00:59:49.680 --> 00:59:52.295
to commit in order to use this grant?

00:59:52.319 --> 00:59:55.319
And what um practices do you envisage

00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.055
against vandalism?

00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.856
I'll direct that to the CEO.

01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:02.535
Look, I mean, there's many councils

01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:05.176
across the um even in the region who

01:00:05.200 --> 01:00:08.055
are, you know, undertaking this type of

01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:09.736
lighting around structures to to

01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:11.176
beautify. You only need to go to

01:00:11.200 --> 01:00:13.896
Cheringong to see it. Um, of course

01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:15.736
there will be a cost in terms of

01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:18.136
installation, but again, , without

01:00:18.160 --> 01:00:19.575
knowing the specifics in relation to

01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:20.936
this grant application, we should be

01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:23.815
able to at least obviously seek that as

01:00:23.839 --> 01:00:26.616
part of the application. And then on an

01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:28.456
ongoing basis, it's just forms part of

01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:30.696
the everyday maintenance and running

01:00:30.720 --> 01:00:33.720
costs of of council. And you know my

01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:36.535
sense particularly  given what we do

01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:38.295
need to do specifically in relation to

01:00:38.319 --> 01:00:41.319
narrow CBD this is one that we you know

01:00:41.680 --> 01:00:43.256
on the basis of this recommendation

01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:46.280
should apply for. So unless  count

01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:47.896
director Norwood has anything further to

01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:50.616
say than than that. I mean that's

01:00:50.640 --> 01:00:52.136
probably the best way I can answer it at

01:00:52.160 --> 01:00:54.535
this stage.

01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:57.559
Director Norwood did you?

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:01.000
All right, Councelor Clancy.

01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:04.376
Um, thank you, Madame Mayor. I

01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:06.696
definitely support this motion. Um, but

01:01:06.720 --> 01:01:08.775
I also have a second recommendation that

01:01:08.799 --> 01:01:11.176
I've sent into governance. If I could

01:01:11.200 --> 01:01:14.200
maybe bring that up, please.

01:01:20.640 --> 01:01:23.335
Um, I've just actually what I might do

01:01:23.359 --> 01:01:25.656
is um before I do that, I might just

01:01:25.680 --> 01:01:28.680
bring up those pictures that I sent in

01:01:28.720 --> 01:01:31.720
just while I talk to the recommendation.

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:33.976
This is what I was talking about.

01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.000
Sorry.

01:01:38.319 --> 01:01:40.136
So, what what you're looking at here is

01:01:40.160 --> 01:01:43.095
the Huskinson Voyager Memorial Park um

01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:45.736
wall of remembrance. So that's that's um

01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:48.760
one of the statues there. Um but if you

01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:52.535
look to the left there, what's happened

01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:54.456
is someone's come in and used a crowbar

01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:57.176
to try and um well, they're vandalizing

01:01:57.200 --> 01:02:00.200
this the memorial. The next picture is a

01:02:00.319 --> 01:02:02.055
little bit bigger. Yep. So you can see

01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:04.295
they've tried to actually crowbar that

01:02:04.319 --> 01:02:06.136
off. There's no And then there's another

01:02:06.160 --> 01:02:09.160
photo where we've got the um the sundial

01:02:09.359 --> 01:02:12.359
that's been totally destroyed. Um it's

01:02:13.200 --> 01:02:16.055
in a hightraic area. Um it there is a

01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:19.016
flag pole there um that there's no

01:02:19.040 --> 01:02:22.040
lighting and so it's really only used

01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:25.079
for memorial events. Um, I think there's

01:02:26.160 --> 01:02:29.160
an opportunity if we could also um apply

01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:33.000
for some money from this grant  to put

01:02:33.440 --> 01:02:35.656
in some appropriate lighting, even if

01:02:35.680 --> 01:02:37.335
it's just lighting up the flag pole,

01:02:37.359 --> 01:02:39.656
which would then  put lighting over

01:02:39.680 --> 01:02:42.376
the entire precinct and make it more

01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:44.216
difficult for vandalism of the lighting

01:02:44.240 --> 01:02:47.240
because of the the location of it. Um, I

01:02:47.680 --> 01:02:49.575
would like to recommend that council

01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:51.575
request the CEO to consider applying for

01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:54.136
appropriate lighting to be placed at the

01:02:54.160 --> 01:02:57.160
Huskas and Voyager Memorial Park. I knew

01:02:57.359 --> 01:02:59.575
that was going to happen. , wall of

01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:01.496
remembrance precinct under the safer

01:03:01.520 --> 01:03:03.815
cities grant opportunity. , the

01:03:03.839 --> 01:03:05.896
lighting will provide a non-intrusive

01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:08.376
preventative measure and contribute to

01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:11.176
the Shoalhaven's efforts regarding crime

01:03:11.200 --> 01:03:14.200
prevention through environmental design.

01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:16.696
Lighting the precinct aims to protect

01:03:16.720 --> 01:03:19.015
rateayer assets such as the war memorial

01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:21.416
and provides safety for visitors all

01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:24.440
year round. Thanks councelor um tribe.

01:03:25.200 --> 01:03:28.200
Do you accept the part two?

01:03:28.640 --> 01:03:30.295
Um madame mayor I don't believe it's

01:03:30.319 --> 01:03:33.256
eligible um under the requirements under

01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:35.095
the guidelines and so I just don't I

01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:38.119
don't want it to jeopardize um part one.

01:03:38.640 --> 01:03:41.640
happy to write something like  explore

01:03:42.799 --> 01:03:44.535
 whether this project would be

01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:46.055
eligible

01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:48.696
 but I just don't want to jeopardize

01:03:48.720 --> 01:03:50.696
the grant application for the first part

01:03:50.720 --> 01:03:52.936
which I know certainly is eligible and I

01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:55.095
have looked at that in detail I don't

01:03:55.119 --> 01:03:57.335
think Huskerson Voyager Memorial Park is

01:03:57.359 --> 01:04:00.359
is within 800 meters of um a public

01:04:01.359 --> 01:04:04.359
transport hub  and

01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:07.496
and there is also limited funding for

01:04:07.520 --> 01:04:09.736
each council So again, I'm very happy

01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:12.216
for it us to explore whether that is an

01:04:12.240 --> 01:04:15.095
option and to consider it for future

01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:16.856
projects.

01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:19.176
 but I don't want it to jeopardize

01:04:19.200 --> 01:04:21.815
when I our application that I've put

01:04:21.839 --> 01:04:24.295
forward because I know that it it does

01:04:24.319 --> 01:04:26.696
not meet the requirements.

01:04:26.720 --> 01:04:29.256
Right. So councelor Clancy, are you

01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:32.280
happy to use the words explore?

01:04:32.319 --> 01:04:34.696
I'm happy to, but I do believe it meets

01:04:34.720 --> 01:04:36.856
the requirements. I'm happy to be um

01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:39.815
corrected on that. But um if it does

01:04:39.839 --> 01:04:41.736
meet the requirements, then it should be

01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:44.295
put up as well. Um if it doesn't meet

01:04:44.319 --> 01:04:46.456
the requirements, then I'm very happy to

01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:48.535
explore and I thank Councelor Tribe for

01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.015
accepting that. Um so I guess we'll go

01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:53.015
with explore, but I'll follow I would

01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:56.039
like follow up um on that.

01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:57.896
Councelor Casmir, are you happy to

01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.920
accept part two?

01:05:01.520 --> 01:05:03.416
Thank you. I think we'll leave it up to

01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:05.416
the staff to put about to do the

01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:08.440
eligibility of the grant applications.

01:05:08.720 --> 01:05:11.720
Yep. Councelor Boyd.

01:05:12.160 --> 01:05:14.295
I guess I'm making a comment. I was just

01:05:14.319 --> 01:05:16.295
wondering if we could explore whether or

01:05:16.319 --> 01:05:18.055
not these lights that we're putting in

01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:21.079
could be solar powered. Um I have um

01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:24.760
later in this agenda I talk about my the

01:05:25.520 --> 01:05:28.520
conference I went to in Griffith and

01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:31.559
they did a similar program or project in

01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:34.920
their CBD that use solar powered um

01:05:35.680 --> 01:05:38.680
bolards which were very effective and

01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:41.815
maybe we should look at a solar powered

01:05:41.839 --> 01:05:42.856
option.

01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:45.015
Mr. CEO, you happy to take that on

01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:46.696
board? Yeah, we'll just take take note

01:05:46.720 --> 01:05:49.720
of that obviously in terms of um us

01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:52.696
pursuing the application um to that and

01:05:52.720 --> 01:05:55.496
obviously it makes sense in light of 

01:05:55.520 --> 01:05:58.520
council board's report. Um but again the

01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:00.535
you know again just meeting the

01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:03.015
challenges particularly in in and around

01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.039
um the 800 m radius of of the the

01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:10.376
Stewart Place bus terminal. Um again

01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:13.015
looking at those power sources might be

01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:15.976
 part of that but yeah I you know we

01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:18.136
will do our level best.

01:06:18.160 --> 01:06:21.160
Mhm.  councelor Kemp

01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:26.136
Madame May if I may. Um the background I

01:06:26.160 --> 01:06:28.295
don't know it was if it was a mistake

01:06:28.319 --> 01:06:31.319
there. It says the problem aims to

01:06:31.839 --> 01:06:33.815
improve the perception of safety in

01:06:33.839 --> 01:06:36.696
public space precincts for women, girls,

01:06:36.720 --> 01:06:39.720
and gender diverse. Um,

01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:41.976
is there was men and boys left out of

01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:44.936
that for any reason?

01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:47.960
I don't know if that was just a mistake.

01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:51.000
I'm I'm Mr. CEO, do you want to

01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:53.256
I haven't got the the guideline in front

01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:55.015
of me. I'm having to take it on notice.

01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:58.039
Um but the you know clearly we have an

01:06:58.799 --> 01:06:59.896
enormous challenge with

01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:00.775
for everybody right?

01:07:00.799 --> 01:07:02.856
Yeah. So let me tuck that on notice.

01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:03.736
Thank you.

01:07:03.760 --> 01:07:05.736
Thank you. Is there any further

01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:07.656
discussion?

01:07:07.680 --> 01:07:09.656
If not is there anybody wishing to vote

01:07:09.680 --> 01:07:12.216
against this recommendation?

01:07:12.240 --> 01:07:15.240
Oh sorry. Yes. Write a reply.

01:07:16.240 --> 01:07:17.575
Thank you madame mayor and thank you

01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:20.055
everyone for the contributions to this.

01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:22.055
It's great that staff will take on board

01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:24.456
some of those points particularly around

01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:27.095
considering the merits of solar power.

01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:30.119
 the one of the reasons I lent towards

01:07:31.359 --> 01:07:33.335
putting fes lighting there as opposed to

01:07:33.359 --> 01:07:35.815
say fairy lights is that very issue of

01:07:35.839 --> 01:07:38.216
vandalism and knowing that when fairy

01:07:38.240 --> 01:07:41.015
lights strung around the trunks of trees

01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:44.039
and upwards that it does um leave those

01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:46.136
that infrastructure vulnerable. So I

01:07:46.160 --> 01:07:49.095
guess that's why I I  I put that there

01:07:49.119 --> 01:07:51.575
for the height  reason, but obviously

01:07:51.599 --> 01:07:54.456
staff will look at all of this on merit.

01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:56.775
 yes, those guidelines come straight

01:07:56.799 --> 01:07:58.055
from the New South Wales government

01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:01.079
website.  so  they are particularly

01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:04.535
looking at vulnerable communities and we

01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:06.616
know that there is a safety issue

01:08:06.640 --> 01:08:08.376
particularly for women in the CBD. women

01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:11.400
are being followed and all kinds of um

01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:14.456
not very nice things happening to them

01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.775
on a weekly basis in the narrow CBD. So,

01:08:16.799 --> 01:08:19.735
it's it makes sense that  that the

01:08:19.759 --> 01:08:21.815
state government is targeting grants

01:08:21.839 --> 01:08:24.376
towards vulnerable communities. So, 

01:08:24.400 --> 01:08:26.616
it's not it's not my words, it's it's

01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:29.640
theirs. And  obviously men and boys

01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:32.376
will still benefit from that when

01:08:32.400 --> 01:08:34.135
walking down the streets.  we're not

01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:35.496
going to say this street is for women

01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:38.295
only but  it does go a long way to

01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:41.175
increasing  the safety  particularly

01:08:41.199 --> 01:08:43.576
for women and vulnerable people.  as I

01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:46.600
said um

01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:48.856
as far as I can tell as well on the

01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:50.616
first point about cost there isn't a

01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:53.640
dollar for-doll requirement for staff 

01:08:53.759 --> 01:08:56.215
 for council to contribute. So there

01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:59.096
there shouldn't be a cost if we have a

01:08:59.120 --> 01:09:01.335
million dollars for the grant.  I'm

01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:04.359
hoping  which is available in in tier

01:09:04.880 --> 01:09:06.936
one that that would well and truly cover

01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:09.255
that cost as well as installation and if

01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:10.856
we can look at solar for the future that

01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:13.255
will assist with that ongoing  cost

01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:15.096
for the lighting itself as well. So

01:09:15.120 --> 01:09:16.536
thank you everyone.

01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:19.560
Thank you. So with that um anybody

01:09:19.920 --> 01:09:22.376
wishing to vote against

01:09:22.400 --> 01:09:25.400
councelor Kemp the balance vote in favor

01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:28.600
I declare that carried.

01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:30.936
I'll just um read into the business

01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:33.655
paper the questions on notice. So CL

01:09:33.679 --> 01:09:36.536
2620 question on notice strategic

01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:39.560
relations advisor new position. CL 26.21

01:09:41.440 --> 01:09:43.335
question on notice narrow wallally dog

01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:46.359
access survey. CL 2622

01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:49.335
question on notice community

01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:52.359
consultative B  bodies model. Um so

01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:56.135
I'll leave that um as read into the

01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:58.856
business paper. So yes

01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:00.936
ask a question about any questions on

01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:01.496
notice.

01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:03.976
No if you got another one put it back on

01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:06.936
question on notice.

01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:09.960
Um so um they Yeah. So I believe that

01:10:11.040 --> 01:10:13.096
they've been answered by um the staff

01:10:13.120 --> 01:10:16.120
and CEO. So we now move over to the call

01:10:16.400 --> 01:10:18.376
over of the business paper. But I

01:10:18.400 --> 01:10:20.936
understand that there is an urgency m an

01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:23.960
e urgency issue. So I will um go to

01:10:24.719 --> 01:10:27.175
councelor Killian who has notified me of

01:10:27.199 --> 01:10:30.199
an e an emergency um motion for today.

01:10:31.360 --> 01:10:34.215
So, councelor Kian, can you please

01:10:34.239 --> 01:10:37.239
provide me with um and the counselors

01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:41.400
with um the reason for urgency and um

01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:45.336
also what the notice is.

01:10:45.360 --> 01:10:48.296
Um thank you, Madame Mayor. Um if the

01:10:48.320 --> 01:10:51.016
staff could put up the proposed motion.

01:10:51.040 --> 01:10:53.336
The reason for the reason I'm calling

01:10:53.360 --> 01:10:55.736
for urgency on this matter is it relates

01:10:55.760 --> 01:10:58.760
to the section 430 investigation

01:11:00.960 --> 01:11:02.936
being undertaken by the office of local

01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:05.960
government in regard to council's

01:11:06.080 --> 01:11:08.456
recruitment of the chief executive

01:11:08.480 --> 01:11:11.480
officer. Um I know that this is a um

01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:15.256
process that's going to be undertaken

01:11:15.280 --> 01:11:17.655
and that it's beginning already now and

01:11:17.679 --> 01:11:19.896
that it I understand it will be short

01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:22.296
and sharp. I also know that there's a

01:11:22.320 --> 01:11:24.616
lot of concern in the community about

01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:27.416
what this means and

01:11:27.440 --> 01:11:29.655
concern to make sure that council is

01:11:29.679 --> 01:11:32.679
really on board with finding out if

01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:35.976
there's any issues and acting on them.

01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:37.976
Now that's a matter for office of local

01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:40.135
government but I would like council to

01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:43.159
consider as a single unanimous voice

01:11:43.280 --> 01:11:45.096
telling our community that we are on

01:11:45.120 --> 01:11:46.856
board with this and we are on board with

01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:49.880
the office of local government um

01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:53.096
telling  u advising the community of

01:11:53.120 --> 01:11:55.336
outcomes and that we need to do this

01:11:55.360 --> 01:11:57.655
urgently because the next opportunity

01:11:57.679 --> 01:11:59.576
will have we will have to do it will be

01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:02.600
in late March where the um investigation

01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:06.695
will be well progressed. by that time.

01:12:06.719 --> 01:12:09.655
So, um I consider it a matter of urgency

01:12:09.679 --> 01:12:11.576
to get a message out to our community

01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:14.376
and to our staff that this is something

01:12:14.400 --> 01:12:17.400
positive and we are on board.

01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:21.640
Thank you. So, it is  because it's in

01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:24.760
relation to the um section 430 notice

01:12:25.280 --> 01:12:27.736
that was received by the council. Um I

01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:29.576
will make a declaration of conflict of

01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:32.215
interest as I was the convenor of the

01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:35.239
recruitment panel. um and it's um non-p

01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:37.896
precinary less insignificant but I will

01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:40.536
make that declaration that I was on the

01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:43.560
 panel for the recruitment um process

01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:45.736
before we go any further. Councelor

01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:46.456
Clancy.

01:12:46.480 --> 01:12:47.896
Sorry, could I interrupt and just let me

01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:49.655
check for other declarations of interest

01:12:49.679 --> 01:12:50.695
as well because

01:12:50.719 --> 01:12:52.936
I too wish to make a declaration if I

01:12:52.960 --> 01:12:55.416
may through you madam chair of a

01:12:55.440 --> 01:12:58.056
nonpunary less than significant 

01:12:58.080 --> 01:13:01.080
declaration of interest as well.

01:13:02.239 --> 01:13:03.976
through you madam may um I declare a

01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:05.416
nonsecurity invested significant

01:13:05.440 --> 01:13:07.416
interest in this debate um in the matter

01:13:07.440 --> 01:13:09.816
of emergency raids as my role at council

01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:12.215
have been director of sh water is likely

01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:13.576
I'll be required to provide information

01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:16.600
to the section 430 investigation

01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:20.360
council I too buffman director city

01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:22.936
performance also declare non-precary

01:13:22.960 --> 01:13:25.336
less than significant  interest in

01:13:25.360 --> 01:13:28.360
this matter  as my role will also be

01:13:28.400 --> 01:13:30.376
required to provide information on the

01:13:30.400 --> 01:13:33.096
section 430

01:13:33.120 --> 01:13:33.256


01:13:33.280 --> 01:13:36.280
Miss McBaric

01:13:38.400 --> 01:13:40.536
interest in this matter as as council's

01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:42.056
public officer and manager business

01:13:42.080 --> 01:13:44.056
assurance and risk I'll also be required

01:13:44.080 --> 01:13:46.536
to provide information um to this

01:13:46.560 --> 01:13:48.695
investigation

01:13:48.719 --> 01:13:51.719
councelor Clancy

01:13:53.040 --> 01:13:54.536
 through you madame mayor I'd like to

01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:57.256
provide a non-punerally pecunary less

01:13:57.280 --> 01:13:59.576
than significant interest in this matter

01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:01.976
I was also on the panel for the

01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:04.536
recruitment of the CEO.

01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:07.560
Thank you. So, moving forward, um

01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:10.536
because we do not have all sorry,

01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:11.976
councelor Wilkins.

01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:15.000
Yes.  as a member of the panel, I'd

01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.215
also like to declare a nonpunary less

01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:19.976
than significant interest in the matter

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:22.456
as well as a member of the selection

01:14:22.480 --> 01:14:22.856
panel.

01:14:22.880 --> 01:14:24.856
Thank you, councelor Proudford.

01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:26.536
Madam Chair, I too declare a less than

01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:28.296
significant non-punerary interest as I

01:14:28.320 --> 01:14:31.320
was a member of the selection panel.

01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:34.600
Right. So as we move forward before I

01:14:36.320 --> 01:14:39.320
rule on the notice of motion under the

01:14:40.320 --> 01:14:43.320
new um code of meeting practice when a

01:14:43.360 --> 01:14:45.816
counselor is not present. So if we do

01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:48.296
not have 13 counselors present at a

01:14:48.320 --> 01:14:51.320
meeting um I get to speak to the motion

01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:53.976
on the to rule on the urgency. You will

01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:55.896
get a vote but I will have the final

01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:58.376
vote as to whether it is urgent or it

01:14:58.400 --> 01:15:01.400
isn't urgent. So this matter um has come

01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:05.000
before council um and it was received as

01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:08.616
we all know um after we received the

01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:11.640
improvement order to here. Um, I have

01:15:12.080 --> 01:15:15.080
requested the CEO to obtain legal advice

01:15:15.280 --> 01:15:18.280
in relation to the 430 and exactly what

01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:22.600
the 430 notice is um and how it affects

01:15:23.840 --> 01:15:26.840
the council and how it affects the um

01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:31.159
counselors etc. So what the process of

01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:34.600
this is so not whether we can or we

01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:37.576
can't what is the process that will be

01:15:37.600 --> 01:15:40.215
undertaken um because it's undertaken

01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:42.135
under legislation.

01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.159
So um I will be um asking the CEO to

01:15:46.400 --> 01:15:49.400
read out the legal advice to the

01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:52.520
counselors um that has been received in

01:15:52.719 --> 01:15:55.719
relation to um he will also ask  I'll

01:15:57.120 --> 01:16:00.120
also ask him to advise you what the

01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:02.695
legal solicitors were asked to provide

01:16:02.719 --> 01:16:04.856
advice on because I know that people

01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:07.496
want to know what the scope was. So with

01:16:07.520 --> 01:16:10.520
that I'll put the urgency not motion

01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:14.616
those councilors wishing to vote for the

01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:17.640
emer urgency motion.

01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:20.056
Yeah. Clarify

01:16:20.080 --> 01:16:23.080
the question. Um are we voting on

01:16:23.280 --> 01:16:26.280
whether we deal with this mo motion now

01:16:27.120 --> 01:16:29.896
or are we dealing with

01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:30.695
urgency of it?

01:16:30.719 --> 01:16:31.816
The urgency.

01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:33.976
Yeah. Just wanted to clarify. voting to

01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:36.215
establish that it is urgent and it

01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:39.016
should need to be heard urgently.

01:16:39.040 --> 01:16:41.896
So those who wrote who wish to vote for

01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:44.920
the urgency. So that's councelor Norris

01:16:45.199 --> 01:16:48.199
Boyd Gill   Killian Wilkins and 

01:16:51.199 --> 01:16:54.199
councelor Proudfoot and councelor um

01:16:54.400 --> 01:16:57.336
tribe those and councelor Dunn those

01:16:57.360 --> 01:16:59.336
against

01:16:59.360 --> 01:17:01.736
councelor Steel councelor Kemp councelor

01:17:01.760 --> 01:17:04.616
Casmir councelor pansy and myself I

01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:07.640
believe that is carried um so I will I

01:17:08.719 --> 01:17:10.856
will rule

01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:13.880
urgency on the motion um and I'll go to

01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:16.536
the CEO and ask him to provide

01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:19.336
counselors with the legal advice that

01:17:19.360 --> 01:17:22.360
was provided to council on this matter.

01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:25.816
Great. Um  thank you  Madame Mayor

01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:28.840
and  in terms of that  legal advice,

01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:32.135
it just relates specifically

01:17:32.159 --> 01:17:35.159
 in relation to the section 430 notice

01:17:36.080 --> 01:17:39.080
and in particular also um any motion

01:17:40.159 --> 01:17:42.376
that might be dealt with by you all as

01:17:42.400 --> 01:17:45.400
counselors  obviously to ensure that

01:17:45.679 --> 01:17:48.679
you are all given the best of advice 

01:17:48.719 --> 01:17:51.719
when discussing  this matter. Um, in

01:17:52.800 --> 01:17:55.800
terms of the legal advice that was

01:17:55.840 --> 01:17:58.456
provided today, I will in essence read

01:17:58.480 --> 01:18:01.480
it um, so that you all have it. Um, on

01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:04.936
the 11th of February 2026, a notice of

01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:06.616
decision to conduct an investigation

01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:09.175
under section 430

01:18:09.199 --> 01:18:11.736
of the Local Government Act 1993

01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:14.056
was issued by the Deputy Secretary of

01:18:14.080 --> 01:18:15.976
the Office of Local Government to take

01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:19.000
effect on that day.

01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:22.776
The notice confirms the decision to

01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:24.616
investigate Shoalhaven City Council with

01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:26.456
respect to its work and activities out

01:18:26.480 --> 01:18:29.480
set out in the terms of reference. Um

01:18:30.719 --> 01:18:32.856
the terms of reference are contained 

01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:34.296
in the notice and they have been

01:18:34.320 --> 01:18:36.296
published by the office of local

01:18:36.320 --> 01:18:39.320
government on their website. The notice

01:18:39.360 --> 01:18:41.736
also authorizes certain offices of the

01:18:41.760 --> 01:18:44.135
office of local government to conduct

01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:47.016
the investigation and sub delegates to

01:18:47.040 --> 01:18:48.936
two of them the functions and powers of

01:18:48.960 --> 01:18:51.816
investigation conferred on the secretary

01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:53.416
New South Wales department of planning

01:18:53.440 --> 01:18:55.896
housing and infrastructure under section

01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:58.920
429 431 432 and 434C

01:19:01.520 --> 01:19:04.520
of the local government act

01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:07.096
specifically in relation to section 430

01:19:07.120 --> 01:19:10.120
of the local government act um as it

01:19:10.400 --> 01:19:12.536
provides  it does relate to the

01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:14.856
departmental chief executive may

01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:17.880
investigate councils and the clear

01:19:18.400 --> 01:19:19.896
stipulation of that section of the act

01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:21.816
is as follows. The departmental chief

01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:24.056
executive may at the request of the

01:19:24.080 --> 01:19:26.056
minister or on the departmental chief

01:19:26.080 --> 01:19:28.376
executive's own initiative conduct an

01:19:28.400 --> 01:19:30.135
investigation into any aspect of a

01:19:30.159 --> 01:19:33.159
council or of its work and activities.

01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:36.856
The notice authorizes at this stage an

01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:39.096
investigation.

01:19:39.120 --> 01:19:40.936
Um

01:19:40.960 --> 01:19:43.016
now in terms of the matters that can be

01:19:43.040 --> 01:19:45.496
investigated under section 430 of the

01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:47.416
act, they are broad and it would seem

01:19:47.440 --> 01:19:48.936
that matters described in the terms of

01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:51.016
reference are matters properly relating

01:19:51.040 --> 01:19:53.416
to the work and activities of the

01:19:53.440 --> 01:19:56.440
council. Once the investigation has been

01:19:56.480 --> 01:19:58.456
completed, a report must be sent to the

01:19:58.480 --> 01:20:01.480
minister and to council.

01:20:01.520 --> 01:20:04.376
The report must be presented to the next

01:20:04.400 --> 01:20:07.096
meeting of the council after the report

01:20:07.120 --> 01:20:09.416
is received.

01:20:09.440 --> 01:20:12.440
In this regard, section 433 of the act

01:20:13.199 --> 01:20:15.576
and the report of the investigation is

01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:17.976
firstly point one, the departmental

01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:19.655
chief executive must report to the

01:20:19.679 --> 01:20:21.576
minister on the results of an

01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:24.135
investigation under this division. must

01:20:24.159 --> 01:20:26.135
send a copy of the report to the council

01:20:26.159 --> 01:20:28.936
concerned. Do the report may comment on

01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:31.175
any matter that in the departmental

01:20:31.199 --> 01:20:33.496
chief executive's opinion warrant

01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:35.896
special mention and may contain such

01:20:35.920 --> 01:20:37.816
recommendations as the departmental

01:20:37.840 --> 01:20:40.840
chief executive considers appropriate.

01:20:40.880 --> 01:20:42.856
Three, a report furnished to the council

01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:44.695
under this section must be presented at

01:20:44.719 --> 01:20:46.695
the next meeting of the council after

01:20:46.719 --> 01:20:49.336
the report is received. And part four,

01:20:49.360 --> 01:20:51.976
section 14B of the Royal Commissions Act

01:20:52.000 --> 01:20:55.000
1923 applies in relation to any report

01:20:55.040 --> 01:20:57.816
that the minister wishes to lay before

01:20:57.840 --> 01:20:59.976
both houses of parliament in the same

01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:02.856
way as it applies to a report made by a

01:21:02.880 --> 01:21:05.880
commission under that act.

01:21:07.679 --> 01:21:10.056
It is not until that time that any of

01:21:10.080 --> 01:21:11.896
the details or the results of the

01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:14.376
investigation might come into the public

01:21:14.400 --> 01:21:17.400
domain.

01:21:18.320 --> 01:21:20.536
The legal opinion also stipulates that

01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:22.456
the powers of investigation conferred

01:21:22.480 --> 01:21:25.096
are also very substantial.

01:21:25.120 --> 01:21:27.096
An order can be issued to council at any

01:21:27.120 --> 01:21:29.336
time requiring the production of

01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:31.655
documents or information or a person can

01:21:31.679 --> 01:21:34.135
be compelled to give evidence. In this

01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:37.159
regard, section 429 and section 431 of

01:21:37.280 --> 01:21:39.576
the local government act relevantly

01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:42.536
provide 429 provision of documents for

01:21:42.560 --> 01:21:45.175
information about council.

01:21:45.199 --> 01:21:46.776
The minister or departmental chief

01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:48.616
executive may at any time by order

01:21:48.640 --> 01:21:50.536
direct a council or a counselor or the

01:21:50.560 --> 01:21:51.976
general manager of a council to provide

01:21:52.000 --> 01:21:54.296
such documents or information concerning

01:21:54.320 --> 01:21:56.695
the council its operations or activities

01:21:56.719 --> 01:21:58.296
as the minister or departmental chief

01:21:58.320 --> 01:22:01.320
executive specifies in the order. Two, a

01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:03.416
copy of the order must be served on the

01:22:03.440 --> 01:22:05.655
council or person required to provide

01:22:05.679 --> 01:22:08.456
the documents or information.

01:22:08.480 --> 01:22:11.336
And the lawyer  legal advice noted

01:22:11.360 --> 01:22:12.776
that failure to comply with the

01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:15.800
direction is a defense under section 661

01:22:16.480 --> 01:22:19.096
of the legislation.

01:22:19.120 --> 01:22:21.576
Section 431 powers in connection with

01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:23.336
the investigation.

01:22:23.360 --> 01:22:24.776
For the purpose of conducting an

01:22:24.800 --> 01:22:26.456
investigation under this division, the

01:22:26.480 --> 01:22:28.135
departmental chief executive may direct

01:22:28.159 --> 01:22:30.776
a person to do any one or more of the

01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:33.175
following.

01:22:33.199 --> 01:22:35.496
A to appear personally before the

01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:37.175
departmental chief executive at a time

01:22:37.199 --> 01:22:39.896
and place specified in the direction. B

01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:41.816
to give evidence including evidence on

01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:44.536
oath. C to produce the to the

01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:46.056
departmental chief executive any

01:22:46.080 --> 01:22:47.736
document that is in the person's custody

01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:50.615
or under that person's control. D to

01:22:50.639 --> 01:22:52.215
grant the departmental chief executive

01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:54.776
such authorities as may be necessary to

01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:56.376
enable the departmental chief executive

01:22:56.400 --> 01:22:58.135
to gain access to any document that is

01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.215
in the custody or under the control of

01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:02.056
any bank, building society, credit,

01:23:02.080 --> 01:23:05.080
credit credit union or other person. And

01:23:05.199 --> 01:23:07.496
again, the the legal advice is to

01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:09.096
failure to comply with the direction is

01:23:09.120 --> 01:23:12.120
an offense under section section 661.

01:23:15.360 --> 01:23:18.360
Part two of this section. Also, for the

01:23:18.400 --> 01:23:19.976
purpose of this section, the

01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:21.336
departmental chief executive may

01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:24.215
administer an oath. And thirdly, the

01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:25.736
departmental chief executive may take

01:23:25.760 --> 01:23:28.056
copies or of extracts from any document

01:23:28.080 --> 01:23:29.416
to which the departmental chief

01:23:29.440 --> 01:23:31.976
executive gains access under this

01:23:32.000 --> 01:23:34.135
section.

01:23:34.159 --> 01:23:37.159
Um in terms of  tonight um

01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:42.520
you know the the key point  that I

01:23:43.440 --> 01:23:45.496
wanted to ensure in terms of the

01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:48.520
legalities of this is making sure that

01:23:48.560 --> 01:23:51.560
 in terms of the notice of motion 

01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:54.600
ensuring that and as it reads as follows

01:23:55.120 --> 01:23:58.120
 I believe is fine. Um

01:23:59.120 --> 01:24:02.120
it it would of course um you know in the

01:24:03.600 --> 01:24:06.296
view of  our lawyers in in the view of

01:24:06.320 --> 01:24:07.576
the lawyers unless a challenge to the

01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:10.600
validity of the notice is proposed any

01:24:10.800 --> 01:24:13.416
motion that sought a resolution  the

01:24:13.440 --> 01:24:14.936
effect of which would be for the council

01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:16.856
not to cooperate with the investigation

01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:19.175
would not be lawful. And I think it's

01:24:19.199 --> 01:24:22.135
fair to say that on reading  council

01:24:22.159 --> 01:24:25.159
Killian's motion  it is lawful.

01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:28.600
Um I think it's also pertinent to note

01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.960
 advice also extended to the context

01:24:32.080 --> 01:24:34.695
of the investigation  that counselors

01:24:34.719 --> 01:24:36.215
will likely be compelled to provide

01:24:36.239 --> 01:24:38.536
information material in accordance with

01:24:38.560 --> 01:24:41.560
relevant provisions of the act.  as I

01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:44.215
just outlined if compelled to provide

01:24:44.239 --> 01:24:46.695
information under the power of the act

01:24:46.719 --> 01:24:49.719
um a council will likely be protected as

01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:51.976
it will be in it an offense not to

01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:53.655
comply.

01:24:53.679 --> 01:24:55.416
 the advice though which I think is

01:24:55.440 --> 01:24:57.816
also important to note  is that

01:24:57.840 --> 01:24:59.416
protection however does not apply to

01:24:59.440 --> 01:25:02.135
comments made in the public domain such

01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:04.776
as a meeting of the council that is not

01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:07.800
closed to the public. A council who

01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:09.655
participated in the CEO recruitment

01:25:09.679 --> 01:25:11.416
process will still be bound by

01:25:11.440 --> 01:25:13.256
obligations to protect privacy and

01:25:13.280 --> 01:25:14.936
confidentiality.

01:25:14.960 --> 01:25:16.296
Care should be taken to ensure that

01:25:16.320 --> 01:25:17.736
there is no breach of obligation

01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:19.175
concerning use and security of

01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:21.256
confidential information or personal

01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:24.280
information detailed at 8.9, 8.10, 8.11

01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:28.296
or 8.12 of the code of conduct contrary

01:25:28.320 --> 01:25:30.376
to section 440 of the local government

01:25:30.400 --> 01:25:31.896
act.

01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:34.695
Um, and again also the lawyers noted

01:25:34.719 --> 01:25:37.336
that the important point in relation to

01:25:37.360 --> 01:25:40.360
600 section 664 which relates to the

01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:43.560
disclosure and misuse of information. So

01:25:44.480 --> 01:25:47.016
I hope that  to council Killian's

01:25:47.040 --> 01:25:50.040
concern  clarifies the very nature and

01:25:50.639 --> 01:25:53.336
the seriousness of  the investigation

01:25:53.360 --> 01:25:55.816
now being undertaken by the office of

01:25:55.840 --> 01:25:58.135
local government.  it is at arms

01:25:58.159 --> 01:26:01.159
length from the council. Um, and that's

01:26:01.679 --> 01:26:04.679
important for the community to obviously

01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:07.800
recognize and that's why ultimately I

01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:09.976
hope the advice tonight clarifies

01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:13.000
without doubt what the section 430 ,

01:26:13.280 --> 01:26:16.280
investigation means , for those

01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:18.456
concerned.

01:26:18.480 --> 01:26:20.856
So, is there any questions for the CEO

01:26:20.880 --> 01:26:23.880
in relation to that advice?

01:26:24.560 --> 01:26:27.256
There's no questions. So, I have um,

01:26:27.280 --> 01:26:29.336
ruled that it is urgent. So, councelor

01:26:29.360 --> 01:26:31.336
Killian, do you want to speak? Oh, do I

01:26:31.360 --> 01:26:33.816
have a second uper? Are you seconding

01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.296
the motion? Councelor Tribe.

01:26:36.320 --> 01:26:37.976
Right. So, it's been seconded by

01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:40.536
Councelor Tribe. Councelor Kian, do you

01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:41.896
want to speak to it, please?

01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:44.920
Yes. Thank you, Madame May. Um, I won't

01:26:45.120 --> 01:26:47.576
say a lot. , I think I I outlined in

01:26:47.600 --> 01:26:50.456
the urgency motion

01:26:50.480 --> 01:26:53.016
why I I think this is something that

01:26:53.040 --> 01:26:55.016
council needs to consider doing. I think

01:26:55.040 --> 01:26:57.256
there's concern in the community as the

01:26:57.280 --> 01:26:59.336
CEO and the legal advice have pointed

01:26:59.360 --> 01:27:00.936
out. This is a very serious

01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:02.456
investigation.

01:27:02.480 --> 01:27:04.296
We don't have any choice in terms of

01:27:04.320 --> 01:27:07.320
whether we cooperate with it. We we have

01:27:08.400 --> 01:27:10.856
to and we will and we will do it with in

01:27:10.880 --> 01:27:13.880
in all good grace and and positivity in

01:27:15.280 --> 01:27:18.280
in confidence that should errors have

01:27:18.320 --> 01:27:20.776
been made, they can and will be

01:27:20.800 --> 01:27:23.800
rectified um and will be found by the

01:27:24.159 --> 01:27:26.536
office. But we we know we've been clear

01:27:26.560 --> 01:27:29.175
in considering this matter that it isn't

01:27:29.199 --> 01:27:32.199
our investigation and that we won't be

01:27:32.800 --> 01:27:34.536
controlling those things. The second

01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:37.175
part of it is about communication with

01:27:37.199 --> 01:27:39.576
the community and again um and I think

01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:42.536
CEO's  reading of the legal 

01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:45.560
document indicated that the how the

01:27:45.600 --> 01:27:47.336
office of local government will make

01:27:47.360 --> 01:27:49.416
information public and and at what point

01:27:49.440 --> 01:27:52.440
that will happen. But our enthusiasm to

01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:56.376
both see the thing through in a positive

01:27:56.400 --> 01:27:59.016
way and to make sure that the community

01:27:59.040 --> 01:28:02.040
gets informed of it as soon as it can 

01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:06.600
is a way of us

01:28:07.199 --> 01:28:09.496
clearly indicating our goodwill as an

01:28:09.520 --> 01:28:12.296
organization towards good practice um

01:28:12.320 --> 01:28:15.320
and towards the the  investigation

01:28:16.159 --> 01:28:18.615
that has been ordered. So, I think

01:28:18.639 --> 01:28:21.096
that's really all I need to say about

01:28:21.120 --> 01:28:23.736
it. I'm hoping that I would commend to

01:28:23.760 --> 01:28:26.536
councilors the notion that

01:28:26.560 --> 01:28:29.560
this this motion in no way says anything

01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:32.920
has been done wrong and um it I would

01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:36.615
commend it to you because it gives us an

01:28:36.639 --> 01:28:38.776
opportunity to communicate with our

01:28:38.800 --> 01:28:40.695
community that we are a positive and

01:28:40.719 --> 01:28:43.719
open organization. Councelor Tribe.

01:28:46.960 --> 01:28:48.856
Thank you, Madame Mayor. And I'll keep

01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:50.936
my remarks short as well, but I I just

01:28:50.960 --> 01:28:52.776
think it's important for us to

01:28:52.800 --> 01:28:54.456
acknowledge

01:28:54.480 --> 01:28:57.480
 the section 430. I think people want

01:28:57.520 --> 01:28:59.816
to hear from their local representatives

01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:02.840
about this. They've heard it publicly um

01:29:02.960 --> 01:29:05.960
announced, but  and we've seen it.

01:29:06.080 --> 01:29:08.776
came up as a national headline on on my

01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:11.096
computer while I was working away that

01:29:11.120 --> 01:29:12.776
 Shoalhaven Council was in this

01:29:12.800 --> 01:29:14.536
situation, but they haven't heard it

01:29:14.560 --> 01:29:17.016
from us on the floor of council. And so

01:29:17.040 --> 01:29:19.256
I think it's important that people hear

01:29:19.280 --> 01:29:21.576
that we acknowledge the seriousness of

01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:24.376
this that we are willing  to

01:29:24.400 --> 01:29:27.400
absolutely comply  with every with the

01:29:27.440 --> 01:29:29.256
process that unfolds from here and the

01:29:29.280 --> 01:29:32.280
investigation that will continue and 

01:29:33.360 --> 01:29:36.360
that  we all  publicly acknowledge

01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:39.816
that and the seriousness of this and and

01:29:39.840 --> 01:29:42.840
our willingness  to to comply. So I I

01:29:43.360 --> 01:29:44.936
hope others will support this this

01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:47.960
motion. Thank you. Any further speakers?

01:29:50.400 --> 01:29:53.400
Write a reply. Councelor Killian.

01:29:53.440 --> 01:29:56.135
No. All right. Now, I've done right of

01:29:56.159 --> 01:29:58.536
reply. So,

01:29:58.560 --> 01:30:00.056
um, with that, is there anybody wishing

01:30:00.080 --> 01:30:02.776
to vote against?

01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:05.175
I declare that carried unanimously.

01:30:05.199 --> 01:30:06.856
Thank you, councelor Kellian. Now, we'll

01:30:06.880 --> 01:30:08.776
move to the calling calling over of the

01:30:08.800 --> 01:30:11.096
paper.

01:30:11.120 --> 01:30:14.120
So we'll go to  CL 26.2 two  point

01:30:18.080 --> 01:30:21.080
yeah 23  report of the northern flood

01:30:21.760 --> 01:30:24.536
plane risk management committee anybody

01:30:24.560 --> 01:30:27.560
wishing to cover to pull that issue out

01:30:28.320 --> 01:30:31.320
if not can I have a mover and seconder

01:30:31.520 --> 01:30:34.520
so councelor Clancy councelor steel so

01:30:34.560 --> 01:30:37.560
that's in relation to CL 2623

01:30:38.080 --> 01:30:41.080
report of the northern um flood pain

01:30:41.280 --> 01:30:44.280
risk management committee and it is

01:30:44.400 --> 01:30:46.135
under that is FP

01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:49.159
F sorry NFM25.4

01:30:50.239 --> 01:30:52.135
Broton Creek flood study. Anybody

01:30:52.159 --> 01:30:54.376
wishing to vote against

01:30:54.400 --> 01:30:57.175
I declare that carried.  city

01:30:57.199 --> 01:30:59.976
performance CL 26.24

01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:02.215
the DP and OPI I'll be calling that

01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:05.239
matter out in relation to CL 26.25

01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:10.856
Australian Local Government um

01:31:10.880 --> 01:31:13.016
Association annual conference. I'll be

01:31:13.040 --> 01:31:15.976
pulling that matter out in relation to

01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:18.135
C26.26

01:31:18.159 --> 01:31:20.456
ongoing register of pecunary interest

01:31:20.480 --> 01:31:23.480
returns January 26. Do I have anybody

01:31:24.080 --> 01:31:26.456
wishing to pull that out?

01:31:26.480 --> 01:31:27.976
So it's been moved by councelor

01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:30.296
Proudfoot, seconded by councelor Norris

01:31:30.320 --> 01:31:32.936
and that is CL 26.26

01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:35.655
ongoing register of pecunary interest

01:31:35.679 --> 01:31:38.376
returns January. Anybody wishing to vote

01:31:38.400 --> 01:31:41.400
against? So I declare that carried. CL

01:31:42.159 --> 01:31:45.159
25.27 investment report for December 25.

01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:47.976
Anybody wishing to call that out?

01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:51.000
Councelor Proudfoot.

01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:54.840
Um CL 26.28

01:31:54.880 --> 01:31:57.576
investment report January 26. Councelor

01:31:57.600 --> 01:32:00.056
Proudfoot.

01:32:00.080 --> 01:32:03.080
Right. CL 25.29

01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:05.816
the proposed granting of an easement to

01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:07.976
Endeavor Energy at Sussex Inlow. It's

01:32:08.000 --> 01:32:10.856
been called out by councelor Steel.

01:32:10.880 --> 01:32:13.880
um in relation to CL 2630

01:32:14.639 --> 01:32:17.639
a temporary um extension of membership

01:32:17.760 --> 01:32:20.056
to the northern and central flood plan

01:32:20.080 --> 01:32:22.695
risk  management committee that's been

01:32:22.719 --> 01:32:25.175
called out by councelor Killian in

01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:28.199
relation to CL 26.31

01:32:28.639 --> 01:32:31.016
bereavement services expression of

01:32:31.040 --> 01:32:33.416
interest outcome that's being called out

01:32:33.440 --> 01:32:35.896
by councelor Kian but that is the

01:32:35.920 --> 01:32:37.736
confidential report so that'll be

01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:40.760
discussed in confidential as well um 

01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:44.600
go to development services. So CL 26.32

01:32:46.800 --> 01:32:48.695
 e exhibition outcomes and

01:32:48.719 --> 01:32:51.719
finalizations of the 2024 Berry Heritage

01:32:52.239 --> 01:32:55.175
Review. I've called that one out um in

01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:58.199
relation to 26 CL 2633

01:32:59.920 --> 01:33:02.056
 one warf road Shoalhaven Heads.

01:33:02.080 --> 01:33:04.536
Councelor Casmir, you called that one

01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:07.560
out. Um we be here for a while. Um, Shaw

01:33:09.040 --> 01:33:12.040
Haven Water CL 26.3

01:33:12.719 --> 01:33:15.719
 34 acquisition easement for drainage

01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:18.920
for sewer part lot um and it's at right

01:33:20.639 --> 01:33:23.256
speech. Do I I know notice there was a

01:33:23.280 --> 01:33:25.336
question on that. Does anybody wishing

01:33:25.360 --> 01:33:28.360
to pull that matter out? Nope.

01:33:28.960 --> 01:33:30.936
So it's been moved by councelor

01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:33.655
Proudfoot seconded by councelor Casmiri.

01:33:33.679 --> 01:33:36.679
CL 26.34 acquisition easement of

01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:39.800
drainage of sewer part lot 70  76

01:33:41.920 --> 01:33:44.920
DP755907

01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:48.600
56 rights beach road rights beach  so

01:33:48.719 --> 01:33:50.376
that's been moved anybody wishing to

01:33:50.400 --> 01:33:53.336
vote against it so declare that carried

01:33:53.360 --> 01:33:56.135
seal 26.36

01:33:56.159 --> 01:33:59.159
easement acquisition of crown land 

01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:01.096
does anybody wishing to pull that one

01:34:01.120 --> 01:34:03.816
out I know

01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:06.135
Um, no. So, do I have a mover and

01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:09.159
seconder of that? So, councelor Kemp,

01:34:09.199 --> 01:34:12.199
Council Norris. So, that's CL 26  35

01:34:13.199 --> 01:34:15.976
easement for acquisition crown land part

01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:19.000
377 DP 757952

01:34:21.120 --> 01:34:23.175
and part

01:34:23.199 --> 01:34:26.199
 7310 DP1

01:34:27.120 --> 01:34:30.120
 that's double 65171.

01:34:30.800 --> 01:34:33.336
So, anybody wishing to vote against? No,

01:34:33.360 --> 01:34:35.655
I declare that carried. Councilor's

01:34:35.679 --> 01:34:38.679
conference report CL 2636. Do you wish

01:34:38.800 --> 01:34:41.496
to pull that out, council Boyd?

01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:43.896
Then we have the confidential. So, I'll

01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:46.376
go to the addendum report. So, the

01:34:46.400 --> 01:34:49.400
addendum report is CL 26.37

01:34:50.639 --> 01:34:52.615
financial review panel terms of

01:34:52.639 --> 01:34:55.639
reference review 2025. Anybody wishing

01:34:56.320 --> 01:34:59.320
to pull that out? If not, I'm happy to

01:34:59.360 --> 01:35:01.336
move that. Do I have a seconder?

01:35:01.360 --> 01:35:04.360
Councelor Councelor um Kemp I think. Oh

01:35:05.440 --> 01:35:08.215
no, sorry. Councelor Dunn. Um so that's

01:35:08.239 --> 01:35:10.856
CL26.37

01:35:10.880 --> 01:35:12.615
financial review panel terms of

01:35:12.639 --> 01:35:15.496
reference review 2026. Anybody wishing

01:35:15.520 --> 01:35:17.416
to vote against

01:35:17.440 --> 01:35:20.440
I declare that carried. So now we'll

01:35:20.880 --> 01:35:23.880
move back to the first one um which will

01:35:24.880 --> 01:35:26.856
be

01:35:26.880 --> 01:35:29.880
um CL 2624 DP and OP on the page

01:35:34.400 --> 01:35:37.400
on page 10.

01:35:39.120 --> 01:35:40.856
Right.

01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:42.695
So I'm happy to move the recommendation

01:35:42.719 --> 01:35:45.496
on this. Do I have a seconder?

01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:48.520
Councelor Kemp is seconded. Um I'll

01:35:49.440 --> 01:35:51.976
speak to it short um briefly. I just

01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:53.655
really want to thank the staff for the

01:35:53.679 --> 01:35:55.655
hard work that this is that we have put

01:35:55.679 --> 01:35:57.896
in for this quarter 1 and also for all

01:35:57.920 --> 01:36:00.920
of the reports um that our CFO um and

01:36:02.080 --> 01:36:03.736
the staff have done to be able to

01:36:03.760 --> 01:36:06.615
prepare this whole report. Um we are

01:36:06.639 --> 01:36:09.639
making good progress um in quarter 2 in

01:36:09.920 --> 01:36:12.695
relation to the savings of council etc.

01:36:12.719 --> 01:36:15.496
I was glad to see that our cash um our

01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:17.976
unrestricted cash reserve is now gone up

01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:21.000
to $8 million and that we've had some

01:36:21.040 --> 01:36:23.655
really good achievements. I think 42 of

01:36:23.679 --> 01:36:26.679
the 7 um5 actions that we put into place

01:36:27.040 --> 01:36:29.736
in the financial sustainability report

01:36:29.760 --> 01:36:32.760
in November 24 um have been completed as

01:36:33.199 --> 01:36:35.655
we move forward. So do I have anybody

01:36:35.679 --> 01:36:37.896
who has any questions or wishes to

01:36:37.920 --> 01:36:40.920
speak? So, councelor Tribe, councelor

01:36:41.120 --> 01:36:43.416
Boyd, Councelor

01:36:43.440 --> 01:36:46.440
Wilkins, Councelor um Proudfoot,

01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:49.736
Councelor Killian. So, anybody else? I

01:36:49.760 --> 01:36:51.336
got them all down. If you have, just let

01:36:51.360 --> 01:36:53.816
me know. So, we'll go to  councelor

01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:56.135
Tri.

01:36:56.159 --> 01:36:57.976
A couple of quick questions if I can

01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:01.000
through you, Madame Mayor. Um page 19

01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:03.896
where it talks about the the carry

01:37:03.920 --> 01:37:06.615
forward of the capital works projects.

01:37:06.639 --> 01:37:09.639
So just so I'm clear. So those will go

01:37:10.639 --> 01:37:13.336
to the EPMO to consider the phasing of

01:37:13.360 --> 01:37:15.816
those and then we'll have a say when it

01:37:15.840 --> 01:37:18.840
comes to the DOP draft about whether the

01:37:20.400 --> 01:37:23.095
the rolling out of those and the phasing

01:37:23.119 --> 01:37:25.175
and budget phasing and project

01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:26.936
deliverability of those we agree with.

01:37:26.960 --> 01:37:29.960
Is is that correct?

01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:31.095
Director Buckman.

01:37:31.119 --> 01:37:33.336
Yeah. Um through you madame mayor that's

01:37:33.360 --> 01:37:34.936
correct. So what we're proposing at the

01:37:34.960 --> 01:37:36.936
quarter two is to push these projects

01:37:36.960 --> 01:37:38.536
out of the current year program and

01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:40.215
they'll be considered in next year's

01:37:40.239 --> 01:37:42.135
program. Typically if it's a carry

01:37:42.159 --> 01:37:43.896
forward, it's work that's already

01:37:43.920 --> 01:37:45.896
underway and therefore we wouldn't stop

01:37:45.920 --> 01:37:47.896
delivering that that um particular

01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:50.215
project. However, if it's a revote and

01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:51.655
no work has commenced on the project,

01:37:51.679 --> 01:37:53.416
then it's obviously up for consideration

01:37:53.440 --> 01:37:55.416
whether it remains a priority in next

01:37:55.440 --> 01:37:57.655
year's capital works program.

01:37:57.679 --> 01:37:59.576
Great. Thank you. And just one more if I

01:37:59.600 --> 01:38:01.816
can through you madame mayor.  on the

01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:04.296
next page, page 20, we talk about the

01:38:04.320 --> 01:38:06.615
employee cost savings as a result of the

01:38:06.639 --> 01:38:08.536
two restructures.

01:38:08.560 --> 01:38:11.560
 and I just  the savings are

01:38:11.679 --> 01:38:13.416
mentioned there and I want to  find

01:38:13.440 --> 01:38:16.440
out if that is after  any redundancy

01:38:17.119 --> 01:38:19.496
payments, please.

01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:20.856
Through you, Madam Mayor, the savings

01:38:20.880 --> 01:38:22.695
quoted there are the annual savings of

01:38:22.719 --> 01:38:24.215
those positions being removed from

01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:26.296
council. So they're the the continuous

01:38:26.320 --> 01:38:28.215
savings that does not include any cash

01:38:28.239 --> 01:38:29.896
impact of redundancy or leave

01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:31.736
entitlements that have been paid out

01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:34.760
under either of those restructures.

01:38:36.400 --> 01:38:39.400
So any further questions councelor tribe

01:38:40.639 --> 01:38:43.639
you don't wish to speak to it? No. Um

01:38:44.159 --> 01:38:46.376
councelor Boyd

01:38:46.400 --> 01:38:48.456
have a couple of questions. First

01:38:48.480 --> 01:38:51.480
firstly um is there in in the attachment

01:38:52.480 --> 01:38:55.480
one on page 21 one under 1.2.2.01

01:38:58.639 --> 01:39:00.936
um is there any responses yet from the

01:39:00.960 --> 01:39:02.615
department of infrastructure in relation

01:39:02.639 --> 01:39:04.215
to the variation of the grant for the

01:39:04.239 --> 01:39:06.615
Shoalhaven for sorry for the Sanctuary

01:39:06.639 --> 01:39:09.639
Point Library.

01:39:10.239 --> 01:39:12.376
It was due in February. I understand.

01:39:12.400 --> 01:39:14.936
Hasn't come back.

01:39:14.960 --> 01:39:17.016
So, no, no update.

01:39:17.040 --> 01:39:18.456
Madame May, there's currently no update.

01:39:18.480 --> 01:39:21.016
Haven't had got it yet. And I know this

01:39:21.040 --> 01:39:24.040
is a bit um minor, but what is perpetual

01:39:25.520 --> 01:39:27.416
enrollment in this learn to swim

01:39:27.440 --> 01:39:29.576
program?

01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:30.776
Through madame mayor, I think you can

01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:32.695
answer that. So,  what happens

01:39:32.719 --> 01:39:35.416
counselor is at the end of a program,

01:39:35.440 --> 01:39:37.816
they just keep reenrolling rather than

01:39:37.840 --> 01:39:39.576
stopping the program. So it's a

01:39:39.600 --> 01:39:41.496
continuous what most learn to swim

01:39:41.520 --> 01:39:43.976
programs are term based. What we're

01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:45.655
proposing now is just to keep them

01:39:45.679 --> 01:39:46.615
rolling.

01:39:46.639 --> 01:39:49.639
Okay. So they keep so do they do 10

01:39:49.840 --> 01:39:52.840
sessions and then pay for another 10.

01:39:53.199 --> 01:39:53.976
That is correct. Yes.

01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:54.856
And pay for another

01:39:54.880 --> 01:39:56.056
depends on the term length. It used to

01:39:56.080 --> 01:39:57.736
be depend depending on how long the term

01:39:57.760 --> 01:39:59.095
length was. But that's essentially what

01:39:59.119 --> 01:40:01.336
we'll be doing is just re-rolling

01:40:01.360 --> 01:40:04.135
perpetually rolling the program.

01:40:04.159 --> 01:40:06.215
I think I understand.

01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:09.239
Thank you councelor Wilkins.

01:40:10.080 --> 01:40:12.456
 thanks Madame Mayor. Just a couple of

01:40:12.480 --> 01:40:15.480
questions.  in the recommendations.5

01:40:17.440 --> 01:40:20.440
repurposed 966K of unspent loan proceeds

01:40:21.040 --> 01:40:24.040
from  loan 1241 drawn down in June 24

01:40:25.040 --> 01:40:27.336
for waste projects to the materials

01:40:27.360 --> 01:40:29.976
recovery facility. I think that takes

01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:33.000
the   the spend on that to probably

01:40:33.600 --> 01:40:36.600
somewhere between 43 and $44 million.

01:40:36.639 --> 01:40:38.936
I'm just wondering, I know it's going to

01:40:38.960 --> 01:40:41.175
be operational soon, but do you have a

01:40:41.199 --> 01:40:44.199
timeline of perhaps when we'll be able

01:40:44.400 --> 01:40:47.400
to assess um the success of it, the

01:40:48.400 --> 01:40:51.400
indicators? Will it be  will it be

01:40:52.400 --> 01:40:55.400
August, se October? Will it be earlier

01:40:55.440 --> 01:40:58.440
than that, July? Um do we have any sort

01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:01.960
of idea when that would be? Um can I

01:41:02.320 --> 01:41:04.135
just  through you madame mayor  just

01:41:04.159 --> 01:41:05.816
a couple of points and then also

01:41:05.840 --> 01:41:08.296
director McVey might want to add 

01:41:08.320 --> 01:41:10.615
specifics in relation to to this loan.

01:41:10.639 --> 01:41:13.639
So  we are hopeful that um in terms of

01:41:13.679 --> 01:41:15.576
the overall capital cost of the project

01:41:15.600 --> 01:41:18.600
it'll be closer to $38 million. Um but

01:41:19.440 --> 01:41:21.816
again we're still in the midst of

01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:24.056
commissioning.  so we will be having

01:41:24.080 --> 01:41:27.080
an official opening shortly. The  bit

01:41:27.119 --> 01:41:30.056
of good news is that due to the work of

01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:33.080
director Norwood and director McFy 

01:41:33.199 --> 01:41:35.496
we've been in discussions with other

01:41:35.520 --> 01:41:37.655
councils and there was a motion passed

01:41:37.679 --> 01:41:40.679
down at Bea Valley Shire to commence 

01:41:40.719 --> 01:41:43.719
negotiations  in relation to  their

01:41:44.080 --> 01:41:46.215
material finding their way to our new

01:41:46.239 --> 01:41:48.856
facility which is very very good and I I

01:41:48.880 --> 01:41:50.456
hope that other councils across the

01:41:50.480 --> 01:41:53.480
region  can be at a point where we can

01:41:53.920 --> 01:41:56.056
can negotiate. I think it is going to be

01:41:56.080 --> 01:41:57.655
a wonderful news story once we get

01:41:57.679 --> 01:42:00.679
there. Um, but as with any

01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:02.215
commissioning, we won't know the final

01:42:02.239 --> 01:42:05.239
price tag till it's up and going. Um, so

01:42:05.679 --> 01:42:07.576
I do want to obviously put that

01:42:07.600 --> 01:42:09.816
condition on on that. I don't know

01:42:09.840 --> 01:42:12.840
whether director McVey I think that 38

01:42:12.880 --> 01:42:15.336
million is pretty pretty accurate

01:42:15.360 --> 01:42:17.016
offhand without all the details in front

01:42:17.040 --> 01:42:18.856
of me. councelor.

01:42:18.880 --> 01:42:19.336
Mhm.

01:42:19.360 --> 01:42:21.095
And the second part of the

01:42:21.119 --> 01:42:23.016
Oh, the loan loan part. Does

01:42:23.040 --> 01:42:26.040
No, no. The um you know when when are we

01:42:26.400 --> 01:42:27.896
going to have an idea? You mentioned

01:42:27.920 --> 01:42:30.920
beer and whether others come on board um

01:42:32.000 --> 01:42:33.655
you know, have you got a sort of a

01:42:33.679 --> 01:42:34.776
timeline about when?

01:42:34.800 --> 01:42:37.095
Yeah. So, yeah, look, I mean, again,

01:42:37.119 --> 01:42:39.576
we're we're talking to all councils in

01:42:39.600 --> 01:42:41.816
the region and it makes economic sense

01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:43.576
for the material to come to NAR as

01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:46.056
opposed to Sydney.  and that's

01:42:46.080 --> 01:42:48.056
obviously it's part of that reducing the

01:42:48.080 --> 01:42:50.695
the costs of transport. We also have to

01:42:50.719 --> 01:42:52.936
remember though that many councils have

01:42:52.960 --> 01:42:55.896
existing contracts.  so it's all in

01:42:55.920 --> 01:42:57.655
the timing in terms of when those

01:42:57.679 --> 01:42:59.175
contracts might be complete that

01:42:59.199 --> 01:43:02.199
facilitate their ability to negotiate

01:43:02.400 --> 01:43:05.095
 with us.  but we are knocking on

01:43:05.119 --> 01:43:08.119
everybody's door and you know ideally

01:43:09.040 --> 01:43:10.536
um you know some of these agreements

01:43:10.560 --> 01:43:12.135
should have been squared off a long time

01:43:12.159 --> 01:43:13.655
ago but they weren't. But we've we've

01:43:13.679 --> 01:43:15.655
stepped in and you know the signs are

01:43:15.679 --> 01:43:18.679
positive. So  when we go to obviously

01:43:18.719 --> 01:43:20.936
commissioning it fully and opening it, I

01:43:20.960 --> 01:43:22.695
think the world will be blown away by

01:43:22.719 --> 01:43:24.776
the the magnitude of the the decision

01:43:24.800 --> 01:43:26.456
that has been made by the council and

01:43:26.480 --> 01:43:29.095
and the outcomes that we will see  as

01:43:29.119 --> 01:43:32.119
a result. Um and you know again we will

01:43:32.880 --> 01:43:34.856
just continue to push hard with all of

01:43:34.880 --> 01:43:37.880
our potential customers in that sense.

01:43:38.400 --> 01:43:40.215
And now and a thank you. And then a

01:43:40.239 --> 01:43:43.095
second question  related to potholes,

01:43:43.119 --> 01:43:45.655
the interminal potholes in the last 24

01:43:45.679 --> 01:43:48.536
hours. I've received  several

01:43:48.560 --> 01:43:51.175
reminders from  from people in the in

01:43:51.199 --> 01:43:53.256
the area as I'm sure other councilors

01:43:53.280 --> 01:43:56.280
have.   several hot spots there 

01:43:57.040 --> 01:44:00.040
Berry Guatemala um Campawara Mountain um

01:44:01.760 --> 01:44:04.615
Campber War itself.  people are are

01:44:04.639 --> 01:44:07.256
very frustrated there.  so a question

01:44:07.280 --> 01:44:10.056
on notice perhaps. Do we know what the

01:44:10.080 --> 01:44:13.080
spend was  last year on renewals over

01:44:13.520 --> 01:44:15.095
above

01:44:15.119 --> 01:44:18.119
over and above  the grants and what's

01:44:18.719 --> 01:44:21.719
the anticipated spend this year 

01:44:22.239 --> 01:44:25.239
coming up over and above  the grants

01:44:26.239 --> 01:44:29.095
on roads on renewals on roads?

01:44:29.119 --> 01:44:31.576
Kevin,

01:44:31.600 --> 01:44:33.175
Madam I'll have to take that on notice.

01:44:33.199 --> 01:44:34.936
I know this year spent on potholes is

01:44:34.960 --> 01:44:36.615
going to be around that $7 million mark,

01:44:36.639 --> 01:44:38.215
but the rest of the questions I I'll

01:44:38.239 --> 01:44:41.239
take on notes.

01:44:42.000 --> 01:44:45.000
Thank you, Councelor Proudfoot.

01:44:46.000 --> 01:44:49.000
Yeah, thanks Madam Chair. Um,

01:44:49.840 --> 01:44:52.215
I refer staff to Well, first of all,

01:44:52.239 --> 01:44:55.239
thanks to staff for preparing the the

01:44:55.280 --> 01:44:56.776
report.

01:44:56.800 --> 01:44:58.695
There's a lot of work goes into these

01:44:58.719 --> 01:45:00.776
sorts of reports, but I refer staff to

01:45:00.800 --> 01:45:02.776
page 17

01:45:02.800 --> 01:45:05.800
and  table five revised forecast of

01:45:06.239 --> 01:45:09.175
the OOLG performance measures. Now,

01:45:09.199 --> 01:45:10.695
three of those measures, operating

01:45:10.719 --> 01:45:12.536
performance ratio, debt service cover

01:45:12.560 --> 01:45:15.560
ratio and infrastructure renewal ratio.

01:45:15.679 --> 01:45:18.679
 the targets were not met. the staff

01:45:18.719 --> 01:45:21.576
got a any particular concern about that

01:45:21.600 --> 01:45:24.600
or as a way forward 

01:45:25.840 --> 01:45:28.376
to to create a brighter future in terms

01:45:28.400 --> 01:45:31.400
of meeting those  OG performance

01:45:31.840 --> 01:45:32.776
measures.

01:45:32.800 --> 01:45:34.456
Um could I just with some opening

01:45:34.480 --> 01:45:36.856
remarks before I um through you madam

01:45:36.880 --> 01:45:39.880
mayor hand to  director Buckman

01:45:40.159 --> 01:45:42.695
um there's a lot of legacy issues behind

01:45:42.719 --> 01:45:43.896
this and of course we're concerned that

01:45:43.920 --> 01:45:45.896
we're not meeting the benchmarks. I

01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:48.215
mean, we we we've got to absolutely work

01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:50.215
in a disciplined way to meet meet these

01:45:50.239 --> 01:45:53.239
benchmarks, but some of them are very

01:45:53.600 --> 01:45:55.576
constrained and challenging to be able

01:45:55.600 --> 01:45:57.736
to achieve in light of where the council

01:45:57.760 --> 01:45:59.976
has been and and you've all been making

01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:02.456
the right decisions to to start to

01:46:02.480 --> 01:46:05.480
address to to address it. Um if you look

01:46:06.880 --> 01:46:09.336
at the situation with the infrastructure

01:46:09.360 --> 01:46:11.576
renewal ratio

01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:14.056
um I mean I look at this across the

01:46:14.080 --> 01:46:15.736
board in terms of local government and I

01:46:15.760 --> 01:46:18.760
think is it an accurate ratio in terms

01:46:19.119 --> 01:46:21.416
of where all council are up to in terms

01:46:21.440 --> 01:46:23.336
of their state of play with their

01:46:23.360 --> 01:46:25.336
infrastructure. We've done a major piece

01:46:25.360 --> 01:46:27.496
of work in relation to roads. We have

01:46:27.520 --> 01:46:29.336
another major piece of work underway in

01:46:29.360 --> 01:46:31.175
terms of boots on ground assessment of

01:46:31.199 --> 01:46:34.199
our storm water. Um, and the price tag

01:46:34.239 --> 01:46:36.135
in terms of getting these up to to speed

01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:37.416
are in the hundreds and hundreds of

01:46:37.440 --> 01:46:40.440
millions of dollars. So, in terms of

01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:43.560
hitting that benchmark, I can't see that

01:46:44.239 --> 01:46:47.239
happening anytime soon realistically. 

01:46:47.440 --> 01:46:49.016
and it's an honest discussion that I

01:46:49.040 --> 01:46:51.256
think needs to be had between councils

01:46:51.280 --> 01:46:52.936
and the office of local government,

01:46:52.960 --> 01:46:54.056
state government in terms of these

01:46:54.080 --> 01:46:56.615
benchmarks and actually how accurate

01:46:56.639 --> 01:46:58.776
they are. The question around financial

01:46:58.800 --> 01:47:01.576
sustainability is a big one. But is it

01:47:01.600 --> 01:47:03.896
realistic to have rate capping at 3%

01:47:03.920 --> 01:47:05.496
3.1%.

01:47:05.520 --> 01:47:08.456
And have award the award potentially set

01:47:08.480 --> 01:47:10.376
at 4% without actually knowing what it

01:47:10.400 --> 01:47:13.336
could end up being. So we have a lot of

01:47:13.360 --> 01:47:16.056
work to I think reposition the debate

01:47:16.080 --> 01:47:19.080
around um around these ratios. Um

01:47:22.000 --> 01:47:23.576
director Buckman I don't know whether

01:47:23.600 --> 01:47:25.655
you want to add in terms to that.

01:47:25.679 --> 01:47:27.016
Yeah through you madame may I just want

01:47:27.040 --> 01:47:28.695
to draw attention to the note underneath

01:47:28.719 --> 01:47:30.376
the table that actually makes reference

01:47:30.400 --> 01:47:33.095
to our debt service cover ratio. So the

01:47:33.119 --> 01:47:35.095
reason we are projecting to not meet

01:47:35.119 --> 01:47:37.175
that at 30 June is because of the $12

01:47:37.199 --> 01:47:39.976
million excess  loan repayments we're

01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:42.456
proposing to pay down this year. So

01:47:42.480 --> 01:47:43.896
whilst we're doing a good thing in

01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:45.816
reducing our debt, it actually puts that

01:47:45.840 --> 01:47:48.056
ratio into an unfavorable position for

01:47:48.080 --> 01:47:50.536
council. Um our borrowers are okay with

01:47:50.560 --> 01:47:52.856
that. Um we can discuss we discuss with

01:47:52.880 --> 01:47:54.456
them ahead of making those repayments.

01:47:54.480 --> 01:47:55.896
So they know that we're expected to not

01:47:55.920 --> 01:47:58.215
meet that ratio. But if we weren't

01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:00.135
proposing to repay an additional 12

01:48:00.159 --> 01:48:02.376
million on top of our already committed

01:48:02.400 --> 01:48:03.976
 loan repayments this year, we would

01:48:04.000 --> 01:48:06.376
be meeting two of those four. Um I guess

01:48:06.400 --> 01:48:07.896
the other point is keeping in mind this

01:48:07.920 --> 01:48:10.215
is four of the nine required OOLG

01:48:10.239 --> 01:48:12.776
benchmarks. Um we highlight these ones

01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:14.215
because these are the ones we are

01:48:14.239 --> 01:48:15.576
continually monitoring. It's not

01:48:15.600 --> 01:48:17.256
mandatory for us to complete these with

01:48:17.280 --> 01:48:18.856
each QBR, but we understand the

01:48:18.880 --> 01:48:21.095
importance of continually reporting them

01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:23.496
through to the council. um our

01:48:23.520 --> 01:48:26.520
infrastructure renewal ratio where as um

01:48:26.719 --> 01:48:29.095
the CEO  described we're obviously

01:48:29.119 --> 01:48:30.615
well aware of the challenges there with

01:48:30.639 --> 01:48:32.856
the aging infrastructure in our region.

01:48:32.880 --> 01:48:35.576
It was a core focus behind um our

01:48:35.600 --> 01:48:38.456
previous SRV campaign um and it's well

01:48:38.480 --> 01:48:40.056
documented in our long long-term

01:48:40.080 --> 01:48:41.896
financial plans as well along with the

01:48:41.920 --> 01:48:43.976
operating um performance ratio that

01:48:44.000 --> 01:48:46.056
we're obviously in a deficit to from a

01:48:46.080 --> 01:48:49.080
general fund perspective.

01:48:49.760 --> 01:48:52.760
Thank you. It's interesting that 

01:48:53.920 --> 01:48:56.695
um financial sustainability was

01:48:56.719 --> 01:48:58.456
mentioned a minute ago. when you go to

01:48:58.480 --> 01:49:01.480
the  attachments on page 124 for

01:49:02.639 --> 01:49:04.376
example

01:49:04.400 --> 01:49:07.095
where staff have put together

01:49:07.119 --> 01:49:09.416
some indicators as to what contributed

01:49:09.440 --> 01:49:12.440
to the financial challenges

01:49:12.800 --> 01:49:15.576
and  why I mentioned this in the bone

01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:18.600
basin area the the word is out from

01:49:19.440 --> 01:49:21.736
people who seem to know what they're

01:49:21.760 --> 01:49:23.576
talking about that  this council's

01:49:23.600 --> 01:49:26.056
heading towards administration

01:49:26.080 --> 01:49:29.080
now I'd like I think it's not. But 

01:49:29.840 --> 01:49:32.056
when you read that information on that

01:49:32.080 --> 01:49:34.695
page, what contributed? We got cost

01:49:34.719 --> 01:49:37.719
shifting which we know occurs  from

01:49:38.159 --> 01:49:40.615
the state and federal government costs

01:49:40.639 --> 01:49:43.639
increasing faster than income

01:49:43.679 --> 01:49:46.679
inadequate grant funding

01:49:46.719 --> 01:49:49.576
lower than average rates and when we're

01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:52.296
compared with group five councils aging

01:49:52.320 --> 01:49:54.376
infrastructure

01:49:54.400 --> 01:49:57.336
additional infrastructure

01:49:57.360 --> 01:50:00.056
 density challenges that the fact that

01:50:00.080 --> 01:50:03.016
the SH havens are spread out um city

01:50:03.040 --> 01:50:06.040
with far more  roads to to to

01:50:08.639 --> 01:50:10.695
maintain and and other facilities and

01:50:10.719 --> 01:50:13.655
the impact of natural disasters.  not

01:50:13.679 --> 01:50:16.679
to mention bad debts, excessive

01:50:17.040 --> 01:50:18.776
borrowings.

01:50:18.800 --> 01:50:21.496
 and it seems to me that the only

01:50:21.520 --> 01:50:23.336
suggestion is increase rates massively

01:50:23.360 --> 01:50:26.360
and tax our way out of trouble. Now, I'm

01:50:27.520 --> 01:50:29.736
just wondering whether we'll ever get to

01:50:29.760 --> 01:50:31.816
financial sustainability

01:50:31.840 --> 01:50:33.816
without penalizing our rate payers. And

01:50:33.840 --> 01:50:35.496
if we're going to penalize our rate

01:50:35.520 --> 01:50:38.520
payers, then surely we must look at a

01:50:39.440 --> 01:50:41.976
service reduction. Now, now without

01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:44.135
service reduction, the whole thing's in

01:50:44.159 --> 01:50:45.175
my view, the whole thing's

01:50:45.199 --> 01:50:47.016
unsustainable.

01:50:47.040 --> 01:50:49.256
And we may well be walking the tight

01:50:49.280 --> 01:50:50.776
rope on our way to administration

01:50:50.800 --> 01:50:52.456
because that's what the people from

01:50:52.480 --> 01:50:53.976
various community groups and political

01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:56.135
groups in the Bayon Basin area are

01:50:56.159 --> 01:50:58.135
saying.  they're pulling up all the

01:50:58.159 --> 01:50:59.496
time saying it looks like you're heading

01:50:59.520 --> 01:51:01.576
towards administration.

01:51:01.600 --> 01:51:02.856
I said where do you get that from? Oh

01:51:02.880 --> 01:51:04.695
well I I went to a meeting the other day

01:51:04.719 --> 01:51:07.719
and they discussed it. Um so and when

01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:12.135
you look at the the pessimism on that

01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:14.215
page

01:51:14.239 --> 01:51:17.239
 in terms of more of the same will

01:51:17.520 --> 01:51:20.376
solve the problem it doesn't give me any

01:51:20.400 --> 01:51:23.400
great  confidence as a counselor that

01:51:24.400 --> 01:51:25.655
we will indeed stay out of

01:51:25.679 --> 01:51:27.175
administration. We will indeed become

01:51:27.199 --> 01:51:29.976
financially sustainable. But to go back

01:51:30.000 --> 01:51:32.056
to go and hit our rate payers, many of

01:51:32.080 --> 01:51:33.655
whom cannot afford it, many of whom

01:51:33.679 --> 01:51:35.976
cannot afford it, hit them with massive

01:51:36.000 --> 01:51:39.000
increase in rates, you know, up 30 40%.

01:51:39.760 --> 01:51:42.296
 it's just you think that's untenable.

01:51:42.320 --> 01:51:45.320
It's it's unreasonable. And yet when I

01:51:45.679 --> 01:51:47.816
go through the report,

01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:50.215
I know that this in my view our staff do

01:51:50.239 --> 01:51:51.575
a fantastic job. But I'm talking about

01:51:51.599 --> 01:51:53.896
we as a council

01:51:53.920 --> 01:51:56.056
we we have to really work a lot harder

01:51:56.080 --> 01:51:57.416
and put things in place and be

01:51:57.440 --> 01:51:59.976
confronted with the reality that there

01:52:00.000 --> 01:52:01.655
may well be services just have to go

01:52:01.679 --> 01:52:03.336
completely

01:52:03.360 --> 01:52:05.016
otherwise the whole thing goes down the

01:52:05.040 --> 01:52:08.040
g. Now, I I'd like some sort of 

01:52:09.440 --> 01:52:11.575
comment or some sort of reassurance that

01:52:11.599 --> 01:52:13.816
that even though those eight indicators

01:52:13.840 --> 01:52:16.840
and and bad debts and and excessive

01:52:17.280 --> 01:52:19.496
borrowings and the last eight years we

01:52:19.520 --> 01:52:22.296
we  were spending more than we were in

01:52:22.320 --> 01:52:25.320
in fact um um bringing in as income all

01:52:26.400 --> 01:52:29.016
contributed to it and there's an old

01:52:29.040 --> 01:52:30.456
saying I suppose if it takes eight years

01:52:30.480 --> 01:52:31.816
to make a mess it will take eight years

01:52:31.840 --> 01:52:33.496
to fix it. I don't know that we've got

01:52:33.520 --> 01:52:36.520
eight years. So, can I get some comment

01:52:36.960 --> 01:52:39.655
to give me some hope that

01:52:39.679 --> 01:52:41.575
we can steer the ship through these

01:52:41.599 --> 01:52:43.336
troubled waters and come out the other

01:52:43.360 --> 01:52:46.360
side  much better in much better shape

01:52:46.719 --> 01:52:48.615
than than this would otherwise indicate

01:52:48.639 --> 01:52:50.776
rather than try and tax our way out of

01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.936
trouble.

01:52:52.960 --> 01:52:54.215
Um,

01:52:54.239 --> 01:52:56.135
through you, Madame May. Um, councelor,

01:52:56.159 --> 01:52:57.896
well said.

01:52:57.920 --> 01:52:59.496
You've been part of decisions over the

01:52:59.520 --> 01:53:01.175
last 12 months which have started to

01:53:01.199 --> 01:53:02.615
turn things around in terms of this

01:53:02.639 --> 01:53:04.376
council. Go and have a look at the level

01:53:04.400 --> 01:53:05.976
of borrowings when you were first

01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:08.296
elected compared to today. Go and have a

01:53:08.320 --> 01:53:10.135
look at your deficit compared to what it

01:53:10.159 --> 01:53:11.655
was when you were elected compared to

01:53:11.679 --> 01:53:14.679
today. And yet we have, I think, a

01:53:15.040 --> 01:53:17.256
change in the community viewpoint. It

01:53:17.280 --> 01:53:18.856
wouldn't matter if Director Norwood is

01:53:18.880 --> 01:53:21.016
mowing lawns or the way in which we're

01:53:21.040 --> 01:53:22.695
seeing the the professionalism of our

01:53:22.719 --> 01:53:25.016
frontline staff through to the way in

01:53:25.040 --> 01:53:26.856
which the admin center building is

01:53:26.880 --> 01:53:29.175
operating. The hard cold reality is

01:53:29.199 --> 01:53:30.536
state and federal governments have both

01:53:30.560 --> 01:53:32.536
undertaken major inquiries in the last

01:53:32.560 --> 01:53:34.456
two years on the very point that you

01:53:34.480 --> 01:53:36.135
raise.

01:53:36.159 --> 01:53:38.695
Rate capping, you know, is in place for

01:53:38.719 --> 01:53:41.416
a reason in New South Wales. But the

01:53:41.440 --> 01:53:43.175
hard cold reality is if you keep

01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:46.199
increasing wages above that wage cap or

01:53:46.239 --> 01:53:49.239
that rate cap, then councils, the

01:53:49.679 --> 01:53:51.655
majority of which are going to be

01:53:51.679 --> 01:53:53.416
continuing to suffer from the very

01:53:53.440 --> 01:53:56.056
points that you identified on page 124.

01:53:56.080 --> 01:53:59.080
This council is not dissimilar to a lot

01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:02.520
of local councils across this state.

01:54:02.560 --> 01:54:04.615
Talk of administration

01:54:04.639 --> 01:54:06.936
is not an answer to resolving the

01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:09.175
problems, the structural problems that

01:54:09.199 --> 01:54:12.199
exist across the sector. It's just

01:54:12.239 --> 01:54:15.239
simply not. And you know, we have seen a

01:54:15.440 --> 01:54:16.936
council to our north on an improvement

01:54:16.960 --> 01:54:18.615
performance order for many for a

01:54:18.639 --> 01:54:20.936
three-year period in relation to its

01:54:20.960 --> 01:54:22.615
finances.

01:54:22.639 --> 01:54:24.215
So

01:54:24.239 --> 01:54:27.175
this is why as we enter the budget

01:54:27.199 --> 01:54:29.175
setting in the next couple of weeks with

01:54:29.199 --> 01:54:31.736
our staff and with our managers that we

01:54:31.760 --> 01:54:33.336
are going to be disciplined around what

01:54:33.360 --> 01:54:35.736
we need to do, what we must do in a

01:54:35.760 --> 01:54:37.896
statutory sense from state government in

01:54:37.920 --> 01:54:39.976
particular and then continue to

01:54:40.000 --> 01:54:41.655
participate in the inquiries that are

01:54:41.679 --> 01:54:44.679
happening to try and justify a better

01:54:44.719 --> 01:54:47.496
outcome. Now I have heard and I've seen

01:54:47.520 --> 01:54:48.776
the arguments that have happened at

01:54:48.800 --> 01:54:51.175
conference level in relation to you know

01:54:51.199 --> 01:54:54.199
the tax take and the allocation of of

01:54:55.440 --> 01:54:57.896
funds. If we think for one minute that

01:54:57.920 --> 01:54:59.736
slugging the rate payers is somehow

01:54:59.760 --> 01:55:01.175
going to be the magic pudding to this

01:55:01.199 --> 01:55:03.736
we're kidding ourselves. We've got 570

01:55:03.760 --> 01:55:05.416
km of roads that have been got to be

01:55:05.440 --> 01:55:07.896
resealed. 230 km some of them have got

01:55:07.920 --> 01:55:10.695
to be rebuilt with the pavement and

01:55:10.719 --> 01:55:12.456
that's roads alone. And that's the big

01:55:12.480 --> 01:55:14.536
issue which a lot of the community are

01:55:14.560 --> 01:55:17.560
saying. So it's a serious time. What we

01:55:17.679 --> 01:55:20.056
must do though in the the short and

01:55:20.080 --> 01:55:21.816
immediate term with this budget that's

01:55:21.840 --> 01:55:24.840
coming up again just line item by line

01:55:25.040 --> 01:55:27.496
item bring the discipline into it. look

01:55:27.520 --> 01:55:29.575
for waste and make sure that we're

01:55:29.599 --> 01:55:32.135
spending every valuable tax  rateayers

01:55:32.159 --> 01:55:35.159
dollar sensibly and at the same time 

01:55:36.239 --> 01:55:38.215
making sure that we get the grants in

01:55:38.239 --> 01:55:39.896
that we need in terms of our roads

01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:42.920
particularly and it's not just about you

01:55:43.280 --> 01:55:45.896
know realigning roads or whatever we

01:55:45.920 --> 01:55:48.456
need support for maintenance and we

01:55:48.480 --> 01:55:51.336
don't necessarily get that so you know

01:55:51.360 --> 01:55:53.175
this is a very serious time and I

01:55:53.199 --> 01:55:56.199
applaud you for what you've said

01:55:56.320 --> 01:55:57.816
well thanks Thanks for the the

01:55:57.840 --> 01:56:00.296
compliment. But  I'd like to I'd like

01:56:00.320 --> 01:56:02.135
to think that we're we're going to come

01:56:02.159 --> 01:56:04.135
out at the other end. That's the whole

01:56:04.159 --> 01:56:06.135
point of what I'm why I raise what I'm

01:56:06.159 --> 01:56:07.816
raising. I don't I don't want to raise

01:56:07.840 --> 01:56:09.336
rates. I certainly want to make sure

01:56:09.360 --> 01:56:12.360
that we look after our people. But I I

01:56:12.560 --> 01:56:14.056
personally cannot see us doing it

01:56:14.080 --> 01:56:16.456
without reducing our level of service.

01:56:16.480 --> 01:56:18.215
And and there's some very hard decisions

01:56:18.239 --> 01:56:20.695
to be made there.  very hard

01:56:20.719 --> 01:56:22.296
decisions. And I know that will impact

01:56:22.320 --> 01:56:24.296
workers. It'll impact the trade union

01:56:24.320 --> 01:56:27.256
movement.  it'll impact on a whole

01:56:27.280 --> 01:56:30.280
range of  individuals and and and and

01:56:30.560 --> 01:56:33.560
community groups for that matter. But 

01:56:33.840 --> 01:56:36.840
unless we change our strategy  not

01:56:39.360 --> 01:56:42.215
180° but maybe 90° I don't I don't think

01:56:42.239 --> 01:56:44.456
the future's all that rosy. So we we

01:56:44.480 --> 01:56:47.256
really need to in my view we really need

01:56:47.280 --> 01:56:49.976
to to make sure the state government in

01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:52.296
particular but even the even the federal

01:56:52.320 --> 01:56:54.135
government start to stump up serious

01:56:54.159 --> 01:56:56.376
dollars and and not have this two for

01:56:56.400 --> 01:56:58.615
one and one for one grants that we

01:56:58.639 --> 01:57:00.695
struggle to come up with with our share

01:57:00.719 --> 01:57:02.856
of  that it seems to me that's a

01:57:02.880 --> 01:57:05.336
problem as well. So  whatever we can

01:57:05.360 --> 01:57:07.416
do in that regard

01:57:07.440 --> 01:57:09.175
 because we we are right at the bottom

01:57:09.199 --> 01:57:11.575
of the food chain. We know that and and

01:57:11.599 --> 01:57:13.336
and we're the ones that get squeezed the

01:57:13.360 --> 01:57:16.360
most and  and our people are suffering

01:57:16.639 --> 01:57:18.056
from it. We're suffering in particular

01:57:18.080 --> 01:57:20.135
with our infrastructure and it's not a

01:57:20.159 --> 01:57:22.056
it's not a council in the state that can

01:57:22.080 --> 01:57:23.736
support their own infrastructure,

01:57:23.760 --> 01:57:25.976
especially the stuff under the ground.

01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:27.336
That's that's that's the real hidden

01:57:27.360 --> 01:57:29.095
cost that and that'll start failing all

01:57:29.119 --> 01:57:30.695
across the state. So there needs to be

01:57:30.719 --> 01:57:33.095
something happening  nationally and

01:57:33.119 --> 01:57:35.175
statewide in my view. But certainly our

01:57:35.199 --> 01:57:36.776
council we've got to look after in the

01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:38.856
short term and we've got to look after

01:57:38.880 --> 01:57:41.016
our finances and and make make sure you

01:57:41.040 --> 01:57:43.016
go after them well. But once again,

01:57:43.040 --> 01:57:44.856
congratulations to the staff that I mean

01:57:44.880 --> 01:57:47.256
you write good reports and and you must

01:57:47.280 --> 01:57:49.256
be frustrated with it all at from time

01:57:49.280 --> 01:57:50.856
to time. I I'd imagine what your

01:57:50.880 --> 01:57:53.575
conversations are in and your own

01:57:53.599 --> 01:57:56.296
offices and and and the frustration you

01:57:56.320 --> 01:57:57.736
must feel trying to steer the ship and

01:57:57.760 --> 01:58:00.760
get us out of all this.  but  well

01:58:01.119 --> 01:58:03.416
done and and cooped up. Thanks so much.

01:58:03.440 --> 01:58:05.976
Thanks for the compliment.

01:58:06.000 --> 01:58:08.536
Councelor Killian

01:58:08.560 --> 01:58:11.560
may um I've got a couple of questions on

01:58:11.760 --> 01:58:13.496
attachment one and then a couple on

01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:15.816
attachment two and my apologies for sort

01:58:15.840 --> 01:58:18.376
of popping around the report. I will

01:58:18.400 --> 01:58:20.615
have some more when I have time to get

01:58:20.639 --> 01:58:22.776
my head around better and get questions

01:58:22.800 --> 01:58:25.800
on noticing probably for next time. Um

01:58:26.400 --> 01:58:28.135
these are very large reports and I'm

01:58:28.159 --> 01:58:30.056
learning how to deal with them properly.

01:58:30.080 --> 01:58:33.080
Um, first one is on page 19 of of

01:58:34.880 --> 01:58:37.880
attachment one, item 11105.

01:58:39.040 --> 01:58:41.175
Um, I just this flags for me something

01:58:41.199 --> 01:58:42.936
that's come up in a couple of different

01:58:42.960 --> 01:58:45.960
places. Lots of really good work by the

01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:48.376
events team here and it's great that

01:58:48.400 --> 01:58:50.215
that they are supporting so many

01:58:50.239 --> 01:58:53.175
different events. Um, but what I keep

01:58:53.199 --> 01:58:56.199
hearing is the terrible issues that

01:58:58.159 --> 01:59:00.936
community groups have in getting DAS

01:59:00.960 --> 01:59:02.695
through for their events, even when

01:59:02.719 --> 01:59:05.496
they're pretty experienced

01:59:05.520 --> 01:59:08.520
um, in having DAS for events. So, um, I

01:59:10.080 --> 01:59:13.080
don't know whether the events team could

01:59:13.199 --> 01:59:16.199
or does attempt to be a a conduit for

01:59:16.480 --> 01:59:18.456
that process. It certainly seems to be

01:59:18.480 --> 01:59:21.480
what's being said in the comments. Um,

01:59:21.599 --> 01:59:24.135
but I I wonder whether the staff have

01:59:24.159 --> 01:59:27.159
any optimism about ability to kind of

01:59:27.599 --> 01:59:29.976
finesse that process for people in the

01:59:30.000 --> 01:59:32.456
community.

01:59:32.480 --> 01:59:33.816
Madam Mayor,

01:59:33.840 --> 01:59:35.976
through you madam mayor. It is a um

01:59:36.000 --> 01:59:39.000
point of um frustration is not the right

01:59:39.520 --> 01:59:41.256
word but so the events booking team sits

01:59:41.280 --> 01:59:42.536
within my directorate in city

01:59:42.560 --> 01:59:43.976
performance and obviously the DA

01:59:44.000 --> 01:59:46.615
application process sits with um

01:59:46.639 --> 01:59:49.175
director Strauss in  city development.

01:59:49.199 --> 01:59:52.056
um it has been flagged as an area

01:59:52.080 --> 01:59:54.296
required for improvement. Um there is

01:59:54.320 --> 01:59:56.296
collaboration. The bookings and events

01:59:56.320 --> 01:59:59.320
team absolutely tried to be that um

01:59:59.760 --> 02:00:01.336
conduit between the development

02:00:01.360 --> 02:00:03.095
application process for a larger scale

02:00:03.119 --> 02:00:06.119
event and the applicant. Um but it is an

02:00:06.239 --> 02:00:08.296
area that we have identified that we

02:00:08.320 --> 02:00:09.816
need to streamline process more

02:00:09.840 --> 02:00:11.496
effectively. It's obviously a lot sim 

02:00:11.520 --> 02:00:13.575
simpler when a DA is not required for an

02:00:13.599 --> 02:00:15.175
event and there's just a license over

02:00:15.199 --> 02:00:17.575
over the land. Um, but we acknowledge

02:00:17.599 --> 02:00:19.496
that there are some improvements that

02:00:19.520 --> 02:00:21.496
need to be made in that area.

02:00:21.520 --> 02:00:23.976
It's good to know that you're on to it.

02:00:24.000 --> 02:00:27.000
Um, my second question  is on page 38

02:00:28.400 --> 02:00:31.400
of the same attachment 21203.

02:00:31.440 --> 02:00:32.856
It's just something I don't understand

02:00:32.880 --> 02:00:34.456
and I think you can probably explain it

02:00:34.480 --> 02:00:37.480
to me um right now. Um this is about

02:00:38.480 --> 02:00:40.776
delivering sustainability and clim

02:00:40.800 --> 02:00:43.800
climate action plan and the comment in

02:00:44.480 --> 02:00:47.480
in the reporting measure comment says

02:00:47.840 --> 02:00:50.840
majority of the remaining SNCAP

02:00:50.960 --> 02:00:53.256
deliverables will be refocused as a

02:00:53.280 --> 02:00:55.256
result of community emissions reduction

02:00:55.280 --> 02:00:58.056
plan and operational emissions reduction

02:00:58.080 --> 02:01:01.080
plan. That was um pardon me Greek to me.

02:01:01.840 --> 02:01:04.840
So maybe somebody can just translate it

02:01:04.880 --> 02:01:07.416
for me. any if anyone if no one's here

02:01:07.440 --> 02:01:08.695
I'll put it on notice and

02:01:08.719 --> 02:01:11.719
direct m is that you

02:01:12.960 --> 02:01:15.960
um and moving to attachment two  again

02:01:16.239 --> 02:01:19.239
a couple of slightly idiosyncratic um

02:01:19.280 --> 02:01:22.280
questions one I notice on page 117

02:01:25.280 --> 02:01:27.496
where we're talking about it's logged

02:01:27.520 --> 02:01:30.520
out um where we're talking about um

02:01:32.159 --> 02:01:35.159
excuse me while I remember my password

02:01:35.679 --> 02:01:38.679
um we were talking about legal costs. I

02:01:39.440 --> 02:01:41.816
have heard some discussion recently

02:01:41.840 --> 02:01:43.336
about

02:01:43.360 --> 02:01:46.360
 the potential and concerns of legal

02:01:46.800 --> 02:01:49.416
costs related to CCBs.

02:01:49.440 --> 02:01:52.215
Um and I just wondered whether there are

02:01:52.239 --> 02:01:55.239
any in there um

02:01:56.480 --> 02:01:58.936
that we've already incurred and and if

02:01:58.960 --> 02:02:01.960
we have had legal costs related to

02:02:02.480 --> 02:02:05.480
um CCBs, which category in there would

02:02:05.679 --> 02:02:07.256
they be in?

02:02:07.280 --> 02:02:09.416
I might take take that on notice. Given

02:02:09.440 --> 02:02:12.440
CCBs sit in under the communications

02:02:12.480 --> 02:02:14.536
area of the the enterprise.

02:02:14.560 --> 02:02:17.560
That was page 117 of the attachment two.

02:02:18.080 --> 02:02:20.376
And then the following page 118. This is

02:02:20.400 --> 02:02:23.256
just a simple question. Um contractors

02:02:23.280 --> 02:02:25.575
and consultants. I note that the the

02:02:25.599 --> 02:02:28.599
vacancy factor for the period is sort of

02:02:29.199 --> 02:02:31.175
somewhere in the order of 12% which is

02:02:31.199 --> 02:02:33.175
fairly high. I've heard some

02:02:33.199 --> 02:02:35.736
explanations about difficulty in

02:02:35.760 --> 02:02:38.760
recruiting. And I know we've tended to

02:02:39.440 --> 02:02:41.816
slow recruitments around restructures.

02:02:41.840 --> 02:02:43.976
That's fine. But below that contractors

02:02:44.000 --> 02:02:46.776
and consultants replacing council staff.

02:02:46.800 --> 02:02:49.800
Um what is a direct appointment? Um is

02:02:50.639 --> 02:02:53.639
that somebody acting up is it or

02:02:55.119 --> 02:02:56.615
Yeah. Um

02:02:56.639 --> 02:02:57.575
director Buckman.

02:02:57.599 --> 02:02:59.175
Yeah. Through you madame mayor. Um an

02:02:59.199 --> 02:03:01.095
example of that was the acting CEO

02:03:01.119 --> 02:03:02.695
position that we had where an external

02:03:02.719 --> 02:03:04.376
comes in is contracted but because of

02:03:04.400 --> 02:03:06.296
the nature of the work it's a direct

02:03:06.320 --> 02:03:09.320
appointment. Um that would probably be

02:03:10.159 --> 02:03:11.896
the main the only one there. Yeah.

02:03:11.920 --> 02:03:13.416
Thank you. Thanks. That's all. Thank

02:03:13.440 --> 02:03:13.655
you.

02:03:13.679 --> 02:03:16.376
That's all. Um, councelor Tribe, you

02:03:16.400 --> 02:03:18.456
wanted to say something further?

02:03:18.480 --> 02:03:20.296
, yeah. I have one more question if I

02:03:20.320 --> 02:03:21.655
can through you, madame mayor. All the

02:03:21.679 --> 02:03:23.816
talk of what's under the ground. Remind

02:03:23.840 --> 02:03:26.840
me that I' I'd doeared um a page in the

02:03:27.440 --> 02:03:30.440
attachment page 137. Um we're talking

02:03:31.280 --> 02:03:33.256
it's talking about the asset data

02:03:33.280 --> 02:03:36.135
collection and there's a a point made

02:03:36.159 --> 02:03:39.159
that the the roads um asset condition

02:03:40.480 --> 02:03:42.056
data has been collected and completed

02:03:42.080 --> 02:03:45.080
and summarized but then  storm water

02:03:46.560 --> 02:03:48.056
condition

02:03:48.080 --> 02:03:50.695
um capturing is was set to commence late

02:03:50.719 --> 02:03:53.719
2025. I just wanted to find out had has

02:03:55.280 --> 02:03:58.280
that begun and and when will we

02:03:58.400 --> 02:04:00.056
we hear back on that

02:04:00.080 --> 02:04:03.080
see council tribe it has commenced um

02:04:03.920 --> 02:04:05.095
it's going to be a very difficult

02:04:05.119 --> 02:04:07.175
challenging process because  what has

02:04:07.199 --> 02:04:08.695
been found certainly in terms of boots

02:04:08.719 --> 02:04:11.719
on ground work that there is a lot of 

02:04:11.760 --> 02:04:14.760
drainage issues so we'd be hopeful that

02:04:15.199 --> 02:04:17.256
we can start to shape it up over the

02:04:17.280 --> 02:04:19.016
next 12 months. It's a very serious

02:04:19.040 --> 02:04:20.776
piece of work that sits alongside the

02:04:20.800 --> 02:04:23.800
road um asset assessment.  and that

02:04:25.280 --> 02:04:28.280
obviously in terms of what we do require

02:04:28.719 --> 02:04:30.695
particularly given the state of our

02:04:30.719 --> 02:04:32.296
roads and the lack of drainage that

02:04:32.320 --> 02:04:34.615
exists alongside our roadways is is part

02:04:34.639 --> 02:04:37.095
of that work. But it's at a minimum it's

02:04:37.119 --> 02:04:39.416
it's 12 months of solid work ahead of

02:04:39.440 --> 02:04:41.736
us. Um which is a challenge from a

02:04:41.760 --> 02:04:43.976
budgeting perspective because we need as

02:04:44.000 --> 02:04:45.655
much information about this asset

02:04:45.679 --> 02:04:48.679
quickly. Um, so you know there there in

02:04:49.679 --> 02:04:51.256
lies a bit of a challenge for the team

02:04:51.280 --> 02:04:54.280
as we set next year's budget.

02:04:55.760 --> 02:04:58.760
Councelor Kim. Thank you, Madame May.

02:04:58.880 --> 02:05:01.880
Um, just a quick look, I think that's

02:05:02.639 --> 02:05:05.256
great that we've we've we've in a year

02:05:05.280 --> 02:05:08.280
we've actually got that 8 million. Um,

02:05:09.119 --> 02:05:11.655
again I'll emphasize the the importance

02:05:11.679 --> 02:05:14.296
of communication about working together

02:05:14.320 --> 02:05:16.856
and um all of us working to help the

02:05:16.880 --> 02:05:19.880
staff to to work on the things and not

02:05:21.040 --> 02:05:23.816
cost the council so much that that we

02:05:23.840 --> 02:05:26.056
all work together and how we do that um

02:05:26.080 --> 02:05:29.080
would be really good. I don't hear

02:05:29.199 --> 02:05:31.336
anything about are we going into

02:05:31.360 --> 02:05:33.016
administration. And I see a lot of

02:05:33.040 --> 02:05:36.040
misinformation floating around online,

02:05:36.239 --> 02:05:38.936
but be careful. Um, don't fall into that

02:05:38.960 --> 02:05:41.960
fish tank. It's It's a big ship and we

02:05:42.400 --> 02:05:45.095
only need to turn it one degree to get

02:05:45.119 --> 02:05:47.816
where we're going, but we will get there

02:05:47.840 --> 02:05:49.976
and that's why we were voted in. So,

02:05:50.000 --> 02:05:51.896
let's keep our eye on the ball and work

02:05:51.920 --> 02:05:54.135
together. Thank you very much. I think

02:05:54.159 --> 02:05:55.976
we've done excellent and I thank the

02:05:56.000 --> 02:05:59.000
staff for working on that.

02:05:59.520 --> 02:06:02.520
Mhm. Any further speakers or questions?

02:06:03.280 --> 02:06:05.095
If not, I'll take the right of reply

02:06:05.119 --> 02:06:07.816
before we move on. Um, so thank you to

02:06:07.840 --> 02:06:09.496
all the counselors for all the questions

02:06:09.520 --> 02:06:12.520
that you had um for staff. Um, I really

02:06:12.639 --> 02:06:14.056
want to thank the staff for the hard

02:06:14.080 --> 02:06:16.456
work that they are doing. Um, especially

02:06:16.480 --> 02:06:18.695
in relation to the council's um,

02:06:18.719 --> 02:06:21.575
finances. Um, I do know that we've

02:06:21.599 --> 02:06:24.536
brought up the issue of administration

02:06:24.560 --> 02:06:27.336
um, for Sholven Council. You only have

02:06:27.360 --> 02:06:29.336
to look at other councilors councils

02:06:29.360 --> 02:06:31.496
that have recently gone into

02:06:31.520 --> 02:06:34.520
administration. So, I'll start with 

02:06:34.960 --> 02:06:37.896
Central Coast. The rates went up, the

02:06:37.920 --> 02:06:40.615
properties got sold off, staff got laid

02:06:40.639 --> 02:06:43.639
off. Um, and where did that get them?

02:06:45.119 --> 02:06:47.336
We've look at Winter Caribbe, same

02:06:47.360 --> 02:06:50.360
thing. Staff got put off, properties got

02:06:50.400 --> 02:06:52.055
sold off, the rates went through the

02:06:52.079 --> 02:06:55.079
roof. Um, and what benefit was it to the

02:06:55.199 --> 02:06:57.816
community? I look at previous ones to

02:06:57.840 --> 02:07:00.840
that Shaw Harour Woolingong there has

02:07:00.960 --> 02:07:03.095
been no positive outcome in my opinion

02:07:03.119 --> 02:07:05.016
to any council that has gone into

02:07:05.040 --> 02:07:07.256
administration because the person at the

02:07:07.280 --> 02:07:09.016
end of the day who pays for it all is

02:07:09.040 --> 02:07:11.336
the rate payer. So I want to

02:07:11.360 --> 02:07:13.175
congratulate the staff on the great work

02:07:13.199 --> 02:07:15.736
that they have been doing um and finding

02:07:15.760 --> 02:07:18.296
the savings that they have been able to

02:07:18.320 --> 02:07:19.976
find. We could all throw our hands up in

02:07:20.000 --> 02:07:23.000
the air and say, "Oh, well, just let

02:07:23.119 --> 02:07:25.336
take it easy and let everybody come in

02:07:25.360 --> 02:07:27.016
and take administration." But the rate

02:07:27.040 --> 02:07:29.496
payers won't affect that. I agree that

02:07:29.520 --> 02:07:31.095
the state government and the federal

02:07:31.119 --> 02:07:33.896
government um as the CEO have said, have

02:07:33.920 --> 02:07:36.215
done two inquiries. Both inquiries we

02:07:36.239 --> 02:07:39.239
have made submissions to um to say these

02:07:39.280 --> 02:07:41.816
are the problems that we are having. Um,

02:07:41.840 --> 02:07:44.840
and so I'll be very interested to see

02:07:45.040 --> 02:07:47.175
what comes out of the federal inquiry

02:07:47.199 --> 02:07:49.095
that is chaired by our local member

02:07:49.119 --> 02:07:51.655
Fiona Phillips um, into the future about

02:07:51.679 --> 02:07:52.936
how they're going to fix local

02:07:52.960 --> 02:07:55.736
government. Not just our council, but

02:07:55.760 --> 02:07:57.416
across New South Wales and across

02:07:57.440 --> 02:07:59.736
Australia because everybody is

02:07:59.760 --> 02:08:01.575
suffering. You do not have to go to any

02:08:01.599 --> 02:08:04.376
other council and they're not suffering.

02:08:04.400 --> 02:08:06.856
Um, so even the big councils are now

02:08:06.880 --> 02:08:09.095
suffering. So there needs to be an

02:08:09.119 --> 02:08:11.816
injection into funds into councils to

02:08:11.840 --> 02:08:14.215
keep them going. Um and they just think

02:08:14.239 --> 02:08:15.816
well we'll just tell the council to

02:08:15.840 --> 02:08:17.736
charge the rateayer and you're

02:08:17.760 --> 02:08:19.816
completely right councelor proudfoot our

02:08:19.840 --> 02:08:22.840
rate payers can't afford it. Um so I'm

02:08:23.520 --> 02:08:25.575
as I said congratulate the staff on the

02:08:25.599 --> 02:08:27.575
the work that they have been doing and

02:08:27.599 --> 02:08:29.336
congratulate the counselors on some of

02:08:29.360 --> 02:08:31.175
the difficult decisions that we have

02:08:31.199 --> 02:08:33.095
made and I look forward to the new

02:08:33.119 --> 02:08:35.016
budgeting process that we are actually

02:08:35.040 --> 02:08:38.040
going through um to look at more savings

02:08:38.239 --> 02:08:41.016
etc. Thank you. So anybody wishing to

02:08:41.040 --> 02:08:43.496
vote against the report.

02:08:43.520 --> 02:08:45.736
So I declare that carried unanimously.

02:08:45.760 --> 02:08:48.760
We'll now move on to CL 2625, Australian

02:08:49.119 --> 02:08:51.095
Local Government Association Annual

02:08:51.119 --> 02:08:54.119
Conference 2026, National General

02:08:54.639 --> 02:08:57.639
Assembly. And we have to put in um we

02:08:58.639 --> 02:09:01.416
have to nominate the um who will be the

02:09:01.440 --> 02:09:04.376
voting delegate. Um so I'll be attending

02:09:04.400 --> 02:09:06.456
that conference. So I'll be the voting

02:09:06.480 --> 02:09:08.936
delegate um if everybody is okay with

02:09:08.960 --> 02:09:11.960
that. The second thing is um any other

02:09:12.000 --> 02:09:15.000
counselors who wish to attend.

02:09:15.199 --> 02:09:17.336
So, councelor Clancy, councelor Boyd, do

02:09:17.360 --> 02:09:18.215
you wish to attend?

02:09:18.239 --> 02:09:20.215
I wanted to nominate someone. Do we not

02:09:20.239 --> 02:09:22.135
are we not doing nominations?

02:09:22.159 --> 02:09:25.159
So, we only have one voting delegate um

02:09:26.400 --> 02:09:28.376
which I will go as the vote the mayor

02:09:28.400 --> 02:09:30.856
will go as the voting delegate. Um but

02:09:30.880 --> 02:09:33.880
councilors can attend and I need to know

02:09:34.880 --> 02:09:37.336
um which counselors would like to attend

02:09:37.360 --> 02:09:40.360
it because we have to make arrangements.

02:09:40.719 --> 02:09:42.776
So, councelor Clancy, you wish to

02:09:42.800 --> 02:09:45.256
attend?

02:09:45.280 --> 02:09:46.695
Yes. Thank you, madame mayor.

02:09:46.719 --> 02:09:49.719
Councelor Casmir, you wish to attend?

02:09:49.920 --> 02:09:52.376
Any other councilors wish to attend?

02:09:52.400 --> 02:09:55.400
Councelor Wilkins.

02:09:55.440 --> 02:09:58.440
Anybody else? No. My next question is,

02:09:59.280 --> 02:10:01.816
do we have any not Oh, councelor Tribe.

02:10:01.840 --> 02:10:03.655


02:10:03.679 --> 02:10:06.679
 do we have any notices a motion that

02:10:06.800 --> 02:10:09.575
um we wish to flag to the governance

02:10:09.599 --> 02:10:11.496
team that we would like to put up at the

02:10:11.520 --> 02:10:14.520
conference council a try?

02:10:14.800 --> 02:10:17.800
 yes madame mayor I I realized once

02:10:18.239 --> 02:10:20.695
I've I emailed staff with the suggestion

02:10:20.719 --> 02:10:23.016
that we actually can't put forward ones

02:10:23.040 --> 02:10:25.575
from last year even though they weren't

02:10:25.599 --> 02:10:28.456
 all addressed.  but I do think it's

02:10:28.480 --> 02:10:30.856
important  we've talked a lot about

02:10:30.880 --> 02:10:32.536
our asset maintenance plans and

02:10:32.560 --> 02:10:35.560
council's  lack of ability to 

02:10:36.159 --> 02:10:38.695
address that in its entirety that we

02:10:38.719 --> 02:10:40.856
don't have the funds to completely

02:10:40.880 --> 02:10:42.856
tackle our infrastructure maintenance

02:10:42.880 --> 02:10:45.880
backlog. And so I would like to suggest

02:10:46.159 --> 02:10:48.456
some wording that may or may not get

02:10:48.480 --> 02:10:50.135
through if it's too similar to last

02:10:50.159 --> 02:10:53.016
year's, but um that councils which have

02:10:53.040 --> 02:10:55.256
evidence-based asset maintenance plans

02:10:55.280 --> 02:10:57.256
in place for essential infrastructure

02:10:57.280 --> 02:10:59.736
such as roads and storm water be

02:10:59.760 --> 02:11:01.976
provided additional financial assistance

02:11:02.000 --> 02:11:04.695
to address this. I don't know whether we

02:11:04.719 --> 02:11:06.856
need to play with the wording more and

02:11:06.880 --> 02:11:09.880
say um you know for councils that their

02:11:10.719 --> 02:11:13.175
um infrastructure maintenance backlog

02:11:13.199 --> 02:11:15.336
exceeds $und00 million or something to

02:11:15.360 --> 02:11:17.336
that effect that differentiates it

02:11:17.360 --> 02:11:20.055
further. Um I'd happy for staff to have

02:11:20.079 --> 02:11:21.736
a play with that. But I I do think that

02:11:21.760 --> 02:11:24.760
this is the biggest issue um facing our

02:11:27.119 --> 02:11:30.119
finances and  that it would be a lost

02:11:30.639 --> 02:11:32.776
opportunity to not raise this with

02:11:32.800 --> 02:11:34.055
particularly the state and federal

02:11:34.079 --> 02:11:35.575
representatives who would be present at

02:11:35.599 --> 02:11:38.215
this conference and note that we can't

02:11:38.239 --> 02:11:40.776
local government can't do this alone. We

02:11:40.800 --> 02:11:43.800
have evidence-based data now at our

02:11:43.840 --> 02:11:46.055
fingertips and working towards the rest

02:11:46.079 --> 02:11:48.776
of it.  but we we can't address this

02:11:48.800 --> 02:11:50.936
on our own.

02:11:50.960 --> 02:11:52.856
through the CEO. Um,

02:11:52.880 --> 02:11:55.095
yeah, I think this is exactly the type

02:11:55.119 --> 02:11:56.376
of thing that we should be advocating

02:11:56.400 --> 02:11:58.615
for in this particular forum and in this

02:11:58.639 --> 02:12:01.639
particular way. , you cannot deny the

02:12:02.560 --> 02:12:05.560
evidence. , so to that end, um, you

02:12:08.320 --> 02:12:10.376
know, we I think we've got an incredible

02:12:10.400 --> 02:12:12.135
argument to make on the basis of the

02:12:12.159 --> 02:12:14.776
work that's been undertaken in the last

02:12:14.800 --> 02:12:17.575
12 months. I I think that if that's okay

02:12:17.599 --> 02:12:19.896
in terms of that motion, council tribe,

02:12:19.920 --> 02:12:21.976
I think it pretty much hits the nail on

02:12:22.000 --> 02:12:24.456
the head unless you want to put the $100

02:12:24.480 --> 02:12:27.480
million number in.

02:12:27.599 --> 02:12:29.896
That was really

02:12:29.920 --> 02:12:31.416
I'd go higher.

02:12:31.440 --> 02:12:34.296
Um but I don't know. I'm also thinking

02:12:34.320 --> 02:12:36.296
about it from a whether it gets support.

02:12:36.320 --> 02:12:38.695
There might be councils who in inner

02:12:38.719 --> 02:12:41.719
city areas who don't maybe their backlog

02:12:42.000 --> 02:12:43.816
doesn't exceed that because they're a

02:12:43.840 --> 02:12:46.456
postage stamp compared to us in size and

02:12:46.480 --> 02:12:48.456
and maybe it would limit support in the

02:12:48.480 --> 02:12:50.456
room but ultimately I do want to get it

02:12:50.480 --> 02:12:53.016
on the paper. So if that's what it takes

02:12:53.040 --> 02:12:55.816
then happy to play with the wording.

02:12:55.840 --> 02:12:58.840
Right. Um just before I go to councelor

02:12:59.679 --> 02:13:02.679
 Kemp, we need an alternate delegate

02:13:02.800 --> 02:13:05.575
um as well. So I would recommend the the

02:13:05.599 --> 02:13:08.215
deputy mayor um be the alternative

02:13:08.239 --> 02:13:09.655
delegate. Are you happy to do that?

02:13:09.679 --> 02:13:12.296
Councelor Wilkins. So so that will be

02:13:12.320 --> 02:13:15.320
the alternative the deputy mayor. Um so

02:13:16.079 --> 02:13:18.296
any councelor Kimp.

02:13:18.320 --> 02:13:21.256
Thank you madame mayor. Um

02:13:21.280 --> 02:13:23.496
has it been 12 months since the last

02:13:23.520 --> 02:13:26.520
ALGA conference? Because the last ALGA

02:13:27.679 --> 02:13:30.679
conference, I thank Selena Clansancy for

02:13:30.880 --> 02:13:32.695
putting forward my notice of motion

02:13:32.719 --> 02:13:35.719
regarding the pensioner rebates and we

02:13:36.239 --> 02:13:38.856
actually took that to the last ALGA

02:13:38.880 --> 02:13:41.175
conference. Maybe councelor Clancy would

02:13:41.199 --> 02:13:44.199
like to talk on that but um back in 1993

02:13:44.960 --> 02:13:47.960
the pensioner rebates represented 50%

02:13:48.639 --> 02:13:51.095
discount to pensioners.  that went to

02:13:51.119 --> 02:13:53.896
the ALGA conference and got full support

02:13:53.920 --> 02:13:56.536
in the last ALGA conference.

02:13:56.560 --> 02:13:58.936
I'm requesting that somebody take that

02:13:58.960 --> 02:14:01.960
back to  ALGA again that there's been

02:14:02.320 --> 02:14:05.320
no action and that I understand that it

02:14:05.440 --> 02:14:07.496
sits within the honorable Ron Hernig's

02:14:07.520 --> 02:14:10.296
portfolio and I'd like to just um dust

02:14:10.320 --> 02:14:12.215
it off a little bit.

02:14:12.239 --> 02:14:15.239
So um it went to both the federal and

02:14:15.520 --> 02:14:16.856
the state

02:14:16.880 --> 02:14:19.095
um conferences. It is within the 12-

02:14:19.119 --> 02:14:22.119
month period. So, we cannot no we cannot

02:14:22.159 --> 02:14:23.896
put them up again in that 12- month

02:14:23.920 --> 02:14:24.215
period.

02:14:24.239 --> 02:14:25.976
It hasn't been 12 months.

02:14:26.000 --> 02:14:28.776
So, that's that's the rules that they've

02:14:28.800 --> 02:14:31.736
set down. So, previously from attending

02:14:31.760 --> 02:14:34.536
these conferences, um councils were

02:14:34.560 --> 02:14:35.976
continually putting the same

02:14:36.000 --> 02:14:38.055
recommendations up year after year after

02:14:38.079 --> 02:14:38.776
year.

02:14:38.800 --> 02:14:40.456
Um and I think that's why they've

02:14:40.480 --> 02:14:42.055
brought in the restriction. If it's been

02:14:42.079 --> 02:14:43.736
at the last conference, it can't go to

02:14:43.760 --> 02:14:45.976
the next one. So, we may have to wait

02:14:46.000 --> 02:14:48.936
till next year. um is through the CEOs.

02:14:48.960 --> 02:14:50.936
Miss McMahon, am I correct in saying

02:14:50.960 --> 02:14:51.496
that?

02:14:51.520 --> 02:14:53.336
Yeah, it's correct.

02:14:53.360 --> 02:14:53.575
Yeah,

02:14:53.599 --> 02:14:55.496
it's two years, is it? It's two years.

02:14:55.520 --> 02:14:56.856
24 months or two years?

02:14:56.880 --> 02:14:57.655
24 months.

02:14:57.679 --> 02:14:58.856
24 months.

02:14:58.880 --> 02:15:01.095
Two years before. Okay. Thank you,

02:15:01.119 --> 02:15:02.055
Madame Mayor. Thank you.

02:15:02.079 --> 02:15:05.079
That's all right. Um Councelor Clancy.

02:15:06.960 --> 02:15:08.776
Thank you, Madame Mayor. Just because

02:15:08.800 --> 02:15:11.800
the um motion wasn't presented by 

02:15:12.400 --> 02:15:14.776
representatives on the floor at Alga

02:15:14.800 --> 02:15:15.816
doesn't mean that they're not being

02:15:15.840 --> 02:15:18.536
addressed. So, can I ask staff if

02:15:18.560 --> 02:15:20.695
through you, Madame Mayor, um if we have

02:15:20.719 --> 02:15:23.719
had any feedback on the um notices of

02:15:24.400 --> 02:15:26.135
motion that have been presented at the

02:15:26.159 --> 02:15:27.816
last conference, if we've received a

02:15:27.840 --> 02:15:29.816
report? If not, maybe we could write to

02:15:29.840 --> 02:15:32.456
them and ask for um

02:15:32.480 --> 02:15:35.175
information, feedback on our specific

02:15:35.199 --> 02:15:36.615
notices of motion.

02:15:36.639 --> 02:15:38.695
Yeah, I'll just go to the CEO.

02:15:38.719 --> 02:15:40.376
Um you'll see that it we have made

02:15:40.400 --> 02:15:41.896
reference to it in the the business

02:15:41.920 --> 02:15:43.816
paper, but maybe director Buckman might

02:15:43.840 --> 02:15:45.736
want to add further to that. , sorry

02:15:45.760 --> 02:15:47.175
you madame mayor. Not directly in

02:15:47.199 --> 02:15:49.095
relation to the nom at last year's ALGA,

02:15:49.119 --> 02:15:51.416
but there was a um nom raised by

02:15:51.440 --> 02:15:53.655
councelor Kemp within the past 12 months

02:15:53.679 --> 02:15:55.736
which required us to write to 

02:15:55.760 --> 02:15:57.336
ministers at different tiers of

02:15:57.360 --> 02:15:59.976
government um seeking a review into the

02:16:00.000 --> 02:16:03.000
pension  rebates. Um we did receive

02:16:03.040 --> 02:16:05.016
responses from them saying thank you for

02:16:05.040 --> 02:16:06.695
your letter but we have not received any

02:16:06.719 --> 02:16:09.719
further correspondence.

02:16:11.199 --> 02:16:13.575
Yep. Thank you. Is there any fur? Oh,

02:16:13.599 --> 02:16:15.575
sorry, Miss McMahon.

02:16:15.599 --> 02:16:18.296
Um, just in addition, Madame Mayor, um,

02:16:18.320 --> 02:16:20.776
through you to what Miss Buckman said,

02:16:20.800 --> 02:16:22.776
counselors are provided any updates we

02:16:22.800 --> 02:16:24.936
get on motions in the councelor portal

02:16:24.960 --> 02:16:27.416
and in the councelor newsletter. So, we

02:16:27.440 --> 02:16:30.215
do provide those to counselors.

02:16:30.239 --> 02:16:31.896
All right. Thank you, Miss McBurn. Is

02:16:31.920 --> 02:16:34.920
there any councelor Wilkins?

02:16:36.479 --> 02:16:39.016
How many notices of motion do we have

02:16:39.040 --> 02:16:40.856
tabled for this conference? And do we

02:16:40.880 --> 02:16:43.415
have to table them tonight? I notice

02:16:43.439 --> 02:16:45.335
that the deadline is Friday. This

02:16:45.359 --> 02:16:47.495
Friday. Would there be a chance for an

02:16:47.519 --> 02:16:50.519
11th hour  contribution there from

02:16:50.559 --> 02:16:53.176
from any counselor or are we  we doing

02:16:53.200 --> 02:16:53.976
that tonight?

02:16:54.000 --> 02:16:56.216
CEO.

02:16:56.240 --> 02:16:59.240
Um Governor, sorry Jen, what tonight?

02:17:01.040 --> 02:17:03.575
It's tonight. Tonight's a big night.

02:17:03.599 --> 02:17:05.575
It's not Friday, but it's tonight.

02:17:05.599 --> 02:17:07.335
It's tonight.

02:17:07.359 --> 02:17:09.176
And and I will note that

02:17:09.200 --> 02:17:10.856
we need a resolution of the council.

02:17:10.880 --> 02:17:13.880
Councilors can um sorry councils can put

02:17:14.080 --> 02:17:17.080
in late resolution late notice as a

02:17:17.359 --> 02:17:19.816
motion to the conference but that

02:17:19.840 --> 02:17:21.816
doesn't necessarily mean that they will

02:17:21.840 --> 02:17:24.695
be heard. All right. They have to accept

02:17:24.719 --> 02:17:26.615
them as a late notice like we do.

02:17:26.639 --> 02:17:27.816
Council Steel as you say.

02:17:27.840 --> 02:17:30.776
Yep. Councelor Steel.

02:17:30.800 --> 02:17:33.800
Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um I raised a

02:17:34.080 --> 02:17:36.535
couple of meetings ago um point in

02:17:36.559 --> 02:17:38.216
regards to developer contributions. Is

02:17:38.240 --> 02:17:40.375
there some way that um that can be

02:17:40.399 --> 02:17:42.056
addressed

02:17:42.080 --> 02:17:44.535
at this meeting

02:17:44.559 --> 02:17:45.736
as far as

02:17:45.760 --> 02:17:47.256
to the assembly?

02:17:47.280 --> 02:17:47.655
Sorry.

02:17:47.679 --> 02:17:49.736
Sorry. So, a specific motus of motion in

02:17:49.760 --> 02:17:51.256
relation to developer contributions at

02:17:51.280 --> 02:17:54.216
the Australian National Government

02:17:54.240 --> 02:17:54.695
General.

02:17:54.719 --> 02:17:56.615
Would that be the wrong place to be um

02:17:56.639 --> 02:17:59.415
addressing that or

02:17:59.439 --> 02:18:02.136
just with regards to um the fact that

02:18:02.160 --> 02:18:03.816
developer contributions haven't been

02:18:03.840 --> 02:18:06.840
indexed since back in 2010, 2008, 2010.

02:18:08.639 --> 02:18:11.016
Obviously, that's having an impact on no

02:18:11.040 --> 02:18:12.375
doubt finances. I'm just wondering if

02:18:12.399 --> 02:18:13.575
that would be an appropriate one to

02:18:13.599 --> 02:18:15.655
bring up at that point. I I think

02:18:15.679 --> 02:18:18.679
anything that's directed around um 

02:18:19.679 --> 02:18:21.736
developed contributions as it slots in

02:18:21.760 --> 02:18:23.816
under the New South Wales law would be

02:18:23.840 --> 02:18:25.976
probably better at the New South Wales

02:18:26.000 --> 02:18:27.816
local government conference which is

02:18:27.840 --> 02:18:29.016
held later on in the year.

02:18:29.040 --> 02:18:29.816
Y

02:18:29.840 --> 02:18:32.455
um so probably in that context it might

02:18:32.479 --> 02:18:35.479
be better to we we target that avenue if

02:18:36.240 --> 02:18:37.655
that's okay. Council still

02:18:37.679 --> 02:18:39.176
absolutely thank you.

02:18:39.200 --> 02:18:41.896
Thank you councelor Kemp. Just another

02:18:41.920 --> 02:18:44.375
quick question. We all agree roads and

02:18:44.399 --> 02:18:47.256
potholes need doing. Is this worth us

02:18:47.280 --> 02:18:49.495
uniting together to do something for

02:18:49.519 --> 02:18:52.519
Alga for this conference or

02:18:53.280 --> 02:18:56.280
your opinion?

02:18:56.479 --> 02:18:59.176
Sorry. In terms of collective advocacy,

02:18:59.200 --> 02:19:01.976
collect collective as a Shoalhaven

02:19:02.000 --> 02:19:03.415
Council, we all agree the roads and

02:19:03.439 --> 02:19:06.375
potholes need doing. Um, is it worth us

02:19:06.399 --> 02:19:09.399
banding together for um representation

02:19:10.000 --> 02:19:12.455
in the urgency down here for help from

02:19:12.479 --> 02:19:15.479
either state or federal  to get some

02:19:16.080 --> 02:19:18.136
urgent help down here?

02:19:18.160 --> 02:19:20.136
Yeah, I mean, look, I think um, you

02:19:20.160 --> 02:19:21.575
know, obviously the contri, you know,

02:19:21.599 --> 02:19:24.599
the the fact that we're participating in

02:19:25.920 --> 02:19:27.736
national inquiries  through the

02:19:27.760 --> 02:19:29.176
federal parliament and the financial

02:19:29.200 --> 02:19:31.176
assistance grants

02:19:31.200 --> 02:19:34.200
um, investigation that they're doing. 

02:19:34.319 --> 02:19:35.896
the advocacy that we're now doing

02:19:35.920 --> 02:19:38.920
through  the  joint organization of

02:19:39.760 --> 02:19:42.535
councils. We of course also have a state

02:19:42.559 --> 02:19:45.016
election coming up and that's always a

02:19:45.040 --> 02:19:46.535
prime time to be able to further

02:19:46.559 --> 02:19:49.559
advocate. Um what I think the key point

02:19:50.000 --> 02:19:52.536
of difference now compared to the past

02:19:52.560 --> 02:19:54.216
is that we actually have more accuracy

02:19:54.240 --> 02:19:56.455
in what we're arguing for 

02:19:56.479 --> 02:19:59.415
particularly around  the magnitude of

02:19:59.439 --> 02:20:01.256
the challenge.

02:20:01.280 --> 02:20:04.280
Um, so you know, it's it's it's hard to

02:20:04.560 --> 02:20:06.455
watch half a billion dollars being spent

02:20:06.479 --> 02:20:08.696
on 6 km of the Princess Highway just

02:20:08.720 --> 02:20:10.536
south of the JB intersection knowing

02:20:10.560 --> 02:20:12.295
that if we had half a billion dollars,

02:20:12.319 --> 02:20:14.056
we could probably go a long way to

02:20:14.080 --> 02:20:17.080
hitting our our total, you know,

02:20:17.120 --> 02:20:18.856
requirements. But we we have to press

02:20:18.880 --> 02:20:21.880
the case every avenue. um we have to

02:20:22.000 --> 02:20:23.976
work closely with our federal and state

02:20:24.000 --> 02:20:25.576
representatives and at then at the same

02:20:25.600 --> 02:20:27.576
time get the ministers to actually take

02:20:27.600 --> 02:20:29.656
sit up and listen and understand the

02:20:29.680 --> 02:20:30.856
challenge of the magnitude of the

02:20:30.880 --> 02:20:31.576
problem.

02:20:31.600 --> 02:20:34.600
I just I want to um highlight that I'm

02:20:34.720 --> 02:20:36.856
not speaking for all the counselors

02:20:36.880 --> 02:20:38.776
right now but I'm I'm asking that we

02:20:38.800 --> 02:20:41.415
have a united front towards getting this

02:20:41.439 --> 02:20:44.439
somewhere focused and whether we can do

02:20:44.640 --> 02:20:46.375
that that may be something we can all

02:20:46.399 --> 02:20:49.335
look at just a suggestion.

02:20:49.359 --> 02:20:52.136
Yeah, I think I'm passing this motion

02:20:52.160 --> 02:20:54.375
tonight as part of United at Front.

02:20:54.399 --> 02:20:55.576
Beautiful. Thank you.

02:20:55.600 --> 02:20:57.096
Yeah.

02:20:57.120 --> 02:20:59.816
So, any further

02:20:59.840 --> 02:21:02.375
discussions or questions?

02:21:02.399 --> 02:21:05.399
No. Anybody wishing to vote against?

02:21:05.840 --> 02:21:08.295
I declare that carried unanimously. So,

02:21:08.319 --> 02:21:11.319
we'll go to CL 26.27 investment report

02:21:11.680 --> 02:21:13.976
December 25. Councelor Proudoot. Do I

02:21:14.000 --> 02:21:15.016
have a seconder?

02:21:15.040 --> 02:21:16.136
Yeah. Thanks, Madam Chair.

02:21:16.160 --> 02:21:19.016
Moving it. Seconded by councelor Tribe.

02:21:19.040 --> 02:21:20.295
What's that?

02:21:20.319 --> 02:21:22.616
Councelor Tribe's happy happy to second

02:21:22.640 --> 02:21:22.936
it.

02:21:22.960 --> 02:21:25.960
Oh, okay. Thank you.

02:21:26.880 --> 02:21:29.816
I'd like to move both reports and just

02:21:29.840 --> 02:21:31.415
to save a bit of time. Madam Chair,

02:21:31.439 --> 02:21:33.016
council tribe, are you happy to second

02:21:33.040 --> 02:21:34.856
both?

02:21:34.880 --> 02:21:37.576
And the good news story of course is 

02:21:37.600 --> 02:21:40.295
it's on page 31. after accounting for

02:21:40.319 --> 02:21:43.176
the externally restricted components, 

02:21:43.200 --> 02:21:45.016
the amount of $2 million, this is after

02:21:45.040 --> 02:21:47.656
6 months, is unrestricted.

02:21:47.680 --> 02:21:49.415
And so what happens with unrestricted

02:21:49.439 --> 02:21:51.016
funds? Interest from these funds is

02:21:51.040 --> 02:21:53.736
included in council's budget and

02:21:53.760 --> 02:21:55.576
contributes to council's general revenue

02:21:55.600 --> 02:21:58.216
and supports core service delivery and

02:21:58.240 --> 02:21:59.496
don't we need plenty of money to do

02:21:59.520 --> 02:22:01.415
that? So that's that's a good news

02:22:01.439 --> 02:22:04.439
story. Also good news stories that 

02:22:04.800 --> 02:22:07.800
we're run running well ahead of budget

02:22:08.000 --> 02:22:11.000
and  staff have  indicated under

02:22:12.080 --> 02:22:13.976
financial implications that council's

02:22:14.000 --> 02:22:15.976
return on investments is exceeding

02:22:16.000 --> 02:22:17.816
budget and a budget readjustment will be

02:22:17.840 --> 02:22:19.256
made as part of the December quarterly

02:22:19.280 --> 02:22:22.136
budget review to reflect current market

02:22:22.160 --> 02:22:25.160
rates and interest forecast. So 

02:22:25.359 --> 02:22:27.896
they're both good news reports. We do

02:22:27.920 --> 02:22:29.896
benefit from that. Well, when I say we,

02:22:29.920 --> 02:22:31.816
we've been the rate payers benefit from

02:22:31.840 --> 02:22:34.056
that because it goes straight back into

02:22:34.080 --> 02:22:37.080
um providing services. So, well done

02:22:37.200 --> 02:22:38.455
again. Thank you.

02:22:38.479 --> 02:22:40.056
Thank you. Is there any further

02:22:40.080 --> 02:22:42.375
discussion or questions?

02:22:42.399 --> 02:22:45.096
If not, I'll put both of those reports

02:22:45.120 --> 02:22:48.056
um to the vote. Anybody wishing to vote

02:22:48.080 --> 02:22:50.776
against either of them?

02:22:50.800 --> 02:22:53.096
If not, I declare both of those reports

02:22:53.120 --> 02:22:56.120
carried. The second report was after we

02:22:56.800 --> 02:22:59.800
read it. Cal sorry CL 26.28

02:23:02.319 --> 02:23:04.696
investment report for January. So both

02:23:04.720 --> 02:23:07.720
have passed. We move to CL 26.29

02:23:08.240 --> 02:23:10.136
proposed grant of easement to endeavor

02:23:10.160 --> 02:23:13.160
energy for community battery  in

02:23:13.200 --> 02:23:16.200
Sussex inlet council steel.

02:23:17.600 --> 02:23:20.600
Madame May um

02:23:20.960 --> 02:23:22.936
I'm reluctant to support the placement

02:23:22.960 --> 02:23:25.415
of this battery in a residential area at

02:23:25.439 --> 02:23:27.656
the moment. I'm not rejecting the

02:23:27.680 --> 02:23:29.576
proposal outright, but I am formally

02:23:29.600 --> 02:23:32.455
asking we defer the item until community

02:23:32.479 --> 02:23:34.375
is properly informed and certain safety

02:23:34.399 --> 02:23:37.016
concerns are addressed.

02:23:37.040 --> 02:23:39.176
Um, the safety risk of catastrophic

02:23:39.200 --> 02:23:41.096
thermal runaway fire and rescue.

02:23:41.120 --> 02:23:42.936
So, so can I just hold there for a

02:23:42.960 --> 02:23:45.415
second? Sorry. Um, so you're moving a

02:23:45.439 --> 02:23:47.176
different recommendation.

02:23:47.200 --> 02:23:50.200
I'm asking if we can defer this um to

02:23:51.120 --> 02:23:51.976
get more

02:23:52.000 --> 02:23:52.856
further information

02:23:52.880 --> 02:23:54.136
information in regards to this

02:23:54.160 --> 02:23:56.295
m. So, do I have a seconder for that?

02:23:56.319 --> 02:23:59.256
Councelor Casmiri. All right. So, yeah.

02:23:59.280 --> 02:24:01.176
Can you speak to your recommendation,

02:24:01.200 --> 02:24:02.616
Councelor Steel?

02:24:02.640 --> 02:24:05.496
Thank you. Um, firstly, there's safety

02:24:05.520 --> 02:24:08.520
risks um associated with  lithium

02:24:09.760 --> 02:24:12.455
batteries as far as thermal runaway.

02:24:12.479 --> 02:24:15.176
Fire and Rescue New South Wales already

02:24:15.200 --> 02:24:18.136
warns that portable lithium batteries

02:24:18.160 --> 02:24:21.016
are leading are a leading fire hazard.

02:24:21.040 --> 02:24:22.536
When we scale this up to a

02:24:22.560 --> 02:24:24.295
community-sized battery, the risk of

02:24:24.319 --> 02:24:27.016
thermal runway fires that are

02:24:27.040 --> 02:24:29.176
notoriously difficult to extinguish and

02:24:29.200 --> 02:24:31.576
release toxic gases increases

02:24:31.600 --> 02:24:33.496
significantly.

02:24:33.520 --> 02:24:35.496
We've seen the devastating impacts of t

02:24:35.520 --> 02:24:38.375
of largecale battery fires in the marine

02:24:38.399 --> 02:24:40.136
industry in the maritime industry,

02:24:40.160 --> 02:24:42.455
sorry. Placing high-risk assets next to

02:24:42.479 --> 02:24:45.479
homes and public reserves on Jacob Drive

02:24:46.000 --> 02:24:48.375
requires a bit more caution than than

02:24:48.399 --> 02:24:49.656
possibly what we're showing at the

02:24:49.680 --> 02:24:51.256
moment.

02:24:51.280 --> 02:24:53.096
Um environmental protection. We must

02:24:53.120 --> 02:24:55.176
consider the location the site borders a

02:24:55.200 --> 02:24:57.736
waterway. In the event of a fire, the

02:24:57.760 --> 02:24:59.256
chemical runoff from firefighting

02:24:59.280 --> 02:25:01.176
efforts would flow directly into Sussex

02:25:01.200 --> 02:25:04.056
Inlet. Without a guaranteed containment

02:25:04.080 --> 02:25:06.616
plan, we are at risk of a local

02:25:06.640 --> 02:25:09.640
environmental disaster.

02:25:09.760 --> 02:25:12.760
Um the community consultation process um

02:25:13.600 --> 02:25:16.600
doesn't seem to be have been done quite

02:25:16.720 --> 02:25:19.096
right. , in my humble opinion, two

02:25:19.120 --> 02:25:20.856
negative responses were excluded from

02:25:20.880 --> 02:25:23.576
the business papers. And while the

02:25:23.600 --> 02:25:25.256
proposal claims to lower electricity

02:25:25.280 --> 02:25:27.096
costs, there's no evidence that these

02:25:27.120 --> 02:25:29.896
savings will actually reach residents.

02:25:29.920 --> 02:25:31.896
We're still awaiting with enthusiasm our

02:25:31.920 --> 02:25:34.920
$275 discount promised years ago.

02:25:35.600 --> 02:25:38.216
Um the Endeavor Energy information

02:25:38.240 --> 02:25:41.240
provided um community batteries

02:25:41.760 --> 02:25:43.656
well provided gave us information that

02:25:43.680 --> 02:25:46.616
the community batteries won't operate

02:25:46.640 --> 02:25:49.576
during power outages. So limiting their

02:25:49.600 --> 02:25:51.176
real benefit to residents in to a

02:25:51.200 --> 02:25:53.976
certain degree at least.

02:25:54.000 --> 02:25:55.736
Um our priority must be the safety and

02:25:55.760 --> 02:25:58.136
actual benefit to the community members

02:25:58.160 --> 02:26:00.295
 not just through wave you know waving

02:26:00.319 --> 02:26:02.856
through government ideologies. I am in

02:26:02.880 --> 02:26:05.736
favor of clean, cheap, and safe energy.

02:26:05.760 --> 02:26:08.760
I just ask that we defer this item for

02:26:09.120 --> 02:26:11.896
further  community consultation with

02:26:11.920 --> 02:26:14.616
both Sussex Inlet residents

02:26:14.640 --> 02:26:17.640
um because we received two negative

02:26:19.200 --> 02:26:21.016
apparently two two negative responses

02:26:21.040 --> 02:26:24.040
were received, no positive ones. So, I'm

02:26:24.720 --> 02:26:27.016
just wondering how many of the the

02:26:27.040 --> 02:26:28.616
locals are actually really informed as

02:26:28.640 --> 02:26:30.455
to what's happening.

02:26:30.479 --> 02:26:33.415
Um, I'd also like to um draw feedback

02:26:33.439 --> 02:26:36.375
from Campbell War residents  who have

02:26:36.399 --> 02:26:38.455
the benefit of hindsight in receipt of

02:26:38.479 --> 02:26:41.479
their community battery to see what

02:26:41.680 --> 02:26:43.656
positive and negative flowback they give

02:26:43.680 --> 02:26:45.736
to council.

02:26:45.760 --> 02:26:47.096
 thank you.

02:26:47.120 --> 02:26:48.776
I've got references if anyone wants the

02:26:48.800 --> 02:26:50.295
references to where I've got my

02:26:50.319 --> 02:26:52.616
information. Um fire new

02:26:52.640 --> 02:26:55.640
southwales.goav.eu EU um

02:26:55.760 --> 02:26:58.760
autoevolution.com and serademaritime.com

02:26:59.840 --> 02:27:02.056
provide um information in regards to

02:27:02.080 --> 02:27:03.976
these risks in regards to thermal

02:27:04.000 --> 02:27:06.455
runaway in particular.

02:27:06.479 --> 02:27:08.375
All right. Thank you. So I'll go to

02:27:08.399 --> 02:27:11.399
councelor Killian.

02:27:12.399 --> 02:27:15.399
Um I think that the it's important that

02:27:16.160 --> 02:27:19.160
we not confuse the advice from  fire

02:27:19.680 --> 02:27:22.375
services about portable lithium

02:27:22.399 --> 02:27:24.536
batteries with this. This is a very

02:27:24.560 --> 02:27:26.936
different prospect to portable lithium

02:27:26.960 --> 02:27:28.856
batteries. Most certainly there have

02:27:28.880 --> 02:27:31.415
been some issues with ebikes and the

02:27:31.439 --> 02:27:34.439
like um and certain cheap import

02:27:35.760 --> 02:27:37.976
batteries but this is a very different

02:27:38.000 --> 02:27:40.375
prospect to that. There are a number of

02:27:40.399 --> 02:27:42.856
community batteries already in place

02:27:42.880 --> 02:27:45.576
across New South Wales, including the

02:27:45.600 --> 02:27:48.600
one at Campawara. Um, and it's an

02:27:48.960 --> 02:27:51.736
opportunity for local people. If you

02:27:51.760 --> 02:27:53.976
have a look on the on the website for

02:27:54.000 --> 02:27:56.295
origin, you'll see or for I think it's

02:27:56.319 --> 02:27:59.319
endeavor actually, you'll see that many

02:28:00.160 --> 02:28:02.536
of them have been placed in communities

02:28:02.560 --> 02:28:05.560
where um there where people struggle to

02:28:06.319 --> 02:28:09.176
to afford their power bills in for

02:28:09.200 --> 02:28:11.176
example in a number of places in Western

02:28:11.200 --> 02:28:13.176
Sydney, in Cabra Matter in Southwest

02:28:13.200 --> 02:28:16.200
Sydney and a lot of rural areas and I

02:28:17.040 --> 02:28:18.856
think generally speaking the feedback's

02:28:18.880 --> 02:28:21.880
very good. it's very available. Um I

02:28:22.160 --> 02:28:25.096
don't know that we need to defer the the

02:28:25.120 --> 02:28:28.120
matter because I think we've already got

02:28:28.399 --> 02:28:31.399
plenty of evidence that it is a strong

02:28:31.600 --> 02:28:33.576
program and that it is community

02:28:33.600 --> 02:28:35.976
benefit. I don't think we should hold it

02:28:36.000 --> 02:28:39.000
up. Um it's easy to provide that

02:28:39.760 --> 02:28:42.760
information through council staff um as

02:28:43.520 --> 02:28:45.496
to the positives of the program. So I'd

02:28:45.520 --> 02:28:48.455
suggest we go ahead um and but by all

02:28:48.479 --> 02:28:50.136
means make positive information

02:28:50.160 --> 02:28:51.976
available.

02:28:52.000 --> 02:28:55.000
Thank you councelor Tribe.

02:28:55.439 --> 02:28:57.176
 thank you madame mayor. A question

02:28:57.200 --> 02:29:00.056
first. My understanding of the paper is

02:29:00.080 --> 02:29:01.896
that this is very separate to the

02:29:01.920 --> 02:29:03.816
installation. This is about granting the

02:29:03.840 --> 02:29:06.056
easement only of the land. The

02:29:06.080 --> 02:29:08.536
installation is a separate issue and

02:29:08.560 --> 02:29:10.936
community consultation was undertaken on

02:29:10.960 --> 02:29:13.960
that in April 2025. Is that right? 

02:29:14.720 --> 02:29:17.720
I'd have to ask

02:29:19.439 --> 02:29:21.656
through that is correct. This report is

02:29:21.680 --> 02:29:23.415
about an easement and I should also note

02:29:23.439 --> 02:29:25.816
that  the electricity company can

02:29:25.840 --> 02:29:27.576
access the land. They've come to us to

02:29:27.600 --> 02:29:30.600
get that easement. We have no part in

02:29:30.720 --> 02:29:32.936
the running billing or anything to do

02:29:32.960 --> 02:29:34.936
with this is not an uncommon thing for

02:29:34.960 --> 02:29:36.776
council to grant an easement over such a

02:29:36.800 --> 02:29:38.375
thing.

02:29:38.399 --> 02:29:40.936
Um and further further that one of the

02:29:40.960 --> 02:29:43.736
challenges is that  with deferral we

02:29:43.760 --> 02:29:46.295
can't brief you as counselors anymore.

02:29:46.319 --> 02:29:49.319
Um that's the other problem we have. Um

02:29:49.760 --> 02:29:51.496
so

02:29:51.520 --> 02:29:53.335
that that remains a bit of a challenge

02:29:53.359 --> 02:29:56.359
in in the processing of deferral

02:29:57.920 --> 02:30:00.920
 and what we can can provide given

02:30:00.960 --> 02:30:03.576
it's not our project as well. Yeah.

02:30:03.600 --> 02:30:05.816
Council tribe sorry continue. Thank you.

02:30:05.840 --> 02:30:07.736
And I'd just like to add that these

02:30:07.760 --> 02:30:10.760
batteries have been really important 

02:30:11.280 --> 02:30:13.415
in areas where they have been installed

02:30:13.439 --> 02:30:16.439
like Wally Point as a matter of um

02:30:16.479 --> 02:30:19.479
resilience um shoring up resilience

02:30:20.240 --> 02:30:23.240
efforts for times of bushfires and other

02:30:23.280 --> 02:30:26.280
incidents where  people can still 

02:30:28.080 --> 02:30:30.375
have power and we can still run a fridge

02:30:30.399 --> 02:30:33.096
and they can still have food and and so

02:30:33.120 --> 02:30:35.176
on. So I think these are a really

02:30:35.200 --> 02:30:37.576
important part of our resilience plan

02:30:37.600 --> 02:30:40.056
going forward for the Shoalhaven.  but

02:30:40.080 --> 02:30:42.056
I note that this is not a debate on

02:30:42.080 --> 02:30:43.656
whether batteries are good or bad. This

02:30:43.680 --> 02:30:45.896
is about whether we grant easement to an

02:30:45.920 --> 02:30:48.216
electricity company um for the work that

02:30:48.240 --> 02:30:51.240
they're undertaking which I support.

02:30:51.760 --> 02:30:54.760
Yes. Councelor Kemp.

02:30:55.680 --> 02:30:58.680
Um just a question. Yeah. Um, thank you.

02:31:00.000 --> 02:31:01.896
Um,

02:31:01.920 --> 02:31:04.920
councelor Steel said about the waterway

02:31:05.359 --> 02:31:07.896
being close to a waterway flow into

02:31:07.920 --> 02:31:10.920
Sussex Inlet and bushfire. I mean, have

02:31:11.840 --> 02:31:14.536
those consultations been done? I know

02:31:14.560 --> 02:31:17.560
that's a question on notice, but um and

02:31:18.640 --> 02:31:21.640
whether the community knows and after

02:31:21.840 --> 02:31:23.576
the horrendous bush fires we've been

02:31:23.600 --> 02:31:25.576
through have does the community know

02:31:25.600 --> 02:31:28.600
about this and um yeah that's only my

02:31:29.040 --> 02:31:30.536
concerns. Thank you.

02:31:30.560 --> 02:31:33.176
Um just through you madam mayor we're

02:31:33.200 --> 02:31:35.256
not responsible for that consultation so

02:31:35.280 --> 02:31:38.056
I can't offhand tell you what um

02:31:38.080 --> 02:31:39.656
Endeavor have done in terms of the

02:31:39.680 --> 02:31:42.680
consultation with the community. Um I

02:31:43.920 --> 02:31:46.536
mean they've clearly done some but you

02:31:46.560 --> 02:31:47.976
know that again it's not our

02:31:48.000 --> 02:31:49.335
responsibility from a council

02:31:49.359 --> 02:31:52.359
perspective to be communicating on those

02:31:52.960 --> 02:31:54.936
identified concerns. waterway wouldn't

02:31:54.960 --> 02:31:57.016
be something that council would

02:31:57.040 --> 02:31:59.016
I don't know whether director nor has

02:31:59.040 --> 02:32:00.936
anything any knowledge in relation to

02:32:00.960 --> 02:32:02.696
waterway

02:32:02.720 --> 02:32:04.056
through you again madam mayor they have

02:32:04.080 --> 02:32:05.976
undertaken I'm just reading from my

02:32:06.000 --> 02:32:08.056
response sorry for reading directly they

02:32:08.080 --> 02:32:09.415
have undertaken the project in

02:32:09.439 --> 02:32:10.696
accordance with part five of the

02:32:10.720 --> 02:32:12.216
environmental planning and assessment

02:32:12.240 --> 02:32:14.776
act 1979 which sets out the

02:32:14.800 --> 02:32:16.136
environmental assessment requirements

02:32:16.160 --> 02:32:18.616
for the activity

02:32:18.640 --> 02:32:19.576
okay

02:32:19.600 --> 02:32:22.600
thank you councelor Norris

02:32:25.040 --> 02:32:27.096
like to formally foreshadow the

02:32:27.120 --> 02:32:29.415
promotion as printed. Um I would like us

02:32:29.439 --> 02:32:30.776
to do what we should be doing in this

02:32:30.800 --> 02:32:33.335
case which is you know approving the

02:32:33.359 --> 02:32:35.576
easement grant granting for endeavor

02:32:35.600 --> 02:32:38.136
energy. Um this does include the

02:32:38.160 --> 02:32:40.536
compensation of the easement to council.

02:32:40.560 --> 02:32:41.816
So we actually are getting some money

02:32:41.840 --> 02:32:43.896
from this um and actually doing what we

02:32:43.920 --> 02:32:45.176
should be doing in this space which is

02:32:45.200 --> 02:32:46.776
looking towards the future. What I'm

02:32:46.800 --> 02:32:48.136
hearing from my colleagues across the

02:32:48.160 --> 02:32:49.576
table, I could be hearing wrong, but it

02:32:49.600 --> 02:32:50.696
sounds like these are questions for

02:32:50.720 --> 02:32:52.856
Endeavor Energy, not for Shaven City

02:32:52.880 --> 02:32:54.776
Council, is just the easement. Can we

02:32:54.800 --> 02:32:57.800
get on with it, please?

02:32:57.840 --> 02:33:00.840
Any further questions or comments?

02:33:01.520 --> 02:33:04.520
If not, write a reply. Councelor Steel.

02:33:04.800 --> 02:33:07.736
Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um,

02:33:07.760 --> 02:33:09.415
you're right. This is about granting an

02:33:09.439 --> 02:33:12.216
easement. The direct result for our

02:33:12.240 --> 02:33:14.776
residents which will be the placing of a

02:33:14.800 --> 02:33:17.736
b a battery on that easement.

02:33:17.760 --> 02:33:20.760
 so the two are not separate issues

02:33:21.040 --> 02:33:22.616
whatsoever.

02:33:22.640 --> 02:33:25.640
And as I said I mean the the location of

02:33:26.720 --> 02:33:29.720
the battery um it's close to a water

02:33:30.399 --> 02:33:32.295
course. It's also close to a road in

02:33:32.319 --> 02:33:35.256
between residential homes.

02:33:35.280 --> 02:33:37.576
um small chance, but there's always a

02:33:37.600 --> 02:33:39.816
possibility of a car careering into it

02:33:39.840 --> 02:33:42.840
causing, you know, a catastrophic event

02:33:43.040 --> 02:33:45.496
surrounded by bush land with the water

02:33:45.520 --> 02:33:47.656
course right behind.

02:33:47.680 --> 02:33:49.176
I really feel that this could possibly

02:33:49.200 --> 02:33:50.616
be looked at a little bit more further

02:33:50.640 --> 02:33:53.335
if not to readjust the plans of where

02:33:53.359 --> 02:33:55.176
it's going to be located at least to

02:33:55.200 --> 02:33:58.200
look at our endeavor

02:33:58.319 --> 02:34:00.776
will deal with an emergency situation if

02:34:00.800 --> 02:34:02.856
it does arise because we've got just not

02:34:02.880 --> 02:34:05.176
local residents. We've got water course,

02:34:05.200 --> 02:34:07.656
we've got Sussex Inlet, the whole water

02:34:07.680 --> 02:34:10.056
course there behind which I see as

02:34:10.080 --> 02:34:11.816
possibly being a threat if there is a

02:34:11.840 --> 02:34:13.576
catastrophic event in this particular

02:34:13.600 --> 02:34:15.415
location.

02:34:15.439 --> 02:34:18.439
So,

02:34:18.479 --> 02:34:20.936
thank you that.

02:34:20.960 --> 02:34:23.960
So, I'll put that um those wishing I

02:34:24.399 --> 02:34:26.295
assume there'll be for and against. So,

02:34:26.319 --> 02:34:27.816
those wishing to vote for the

02:34:27.840 --> 02:34:30.136
recommendation

02:34:30.160 --> 02:34:32.696
as in what's printed on the paper. So we

02:34:32.720 --> 02:34:35.720
defer it. So voting to defer it.

02:34:38.319 --> 02:34:40.536
Those who wish to vote for. So councelor

02:34:40.560 --> 02:34:42.936
Steel, councelor Kemp, those who wish to

02:34:42.960 --> 02:34:45.576
vote against. Councelor Norris,

02:34:45.600 --> 02:34:47.736
councelor Clancy, which way are you

02:34:47.760 --> 02:34:50.696
voting against?

02:34:50.720 --> 02:34:52.616
So I'll come back to you. Councelor

02:34:52.640 --> 02:34:55.096
Boyd, Councelor Killian, Councelor

02:34:55.120 --> 02:34:58.120
Wilkins, Councelor Proudfoot, Councelor

02:34:58.640 --> 02:35:01.640
um Tribe, Councelor Dunn, Councelor

02:35:02.080 --> 02:35:03.816
White. Which way you voting? Councelor

02:35:03.840 --> 02:35:06.840
Kempy Clancy for or against? Against. So

02:35:08.800 --> 02:35:11.415
I declare that lost. So we'll go to the

02:35:11.439 --> 02:35:13.576
foreshadowed from councelor Norris. Do I

02:35:13.600 --> 02:35:16.375
have a seconder? Councelor Tribe. Do we

02:35:16.399 --> 02:35:19.016
need to have any further debate?

02:35:19.040 --> 02:35:20.696
I'll put the recommendation. And those

02:35:20.720 --> 02:35:23.720
wishing to vote in favor.

02:35:23.760 --> 02:35:26.760
 so so councelor Norris, council

02:35:27.120 --> 02:35:28.776
clansancy, councelor boy, council

02:35:28.800 --> 02:35:31.576
Killian, councelor Wilkins, councelor

02:35:31.600 --> 02:35:33.335
proudoot, councelor tribe, councelor

02:35:33.359 --> 02:35:35.016
dun, councelor white, those voting

02:35:35.040 --> 02:35:38.040
against councelor tribe, councelor

02:35:38.160 --> 02:35:41.160
steel, councelor Casmir. I'm sorry,

02:35:41.439 --> 02:35:43.656
sorry.

02:35:43.680 --> 02:35:45.016
Oh, sorry.

02:35:45.040 --> 02:35:47.335
Councelor Steel, not councelor Kemp. So

02:35:47.359 --> 02:35:49.016
councelor Kemp, council steel and

02:35:49.040 --> 02:35:51.016
councelor Casmary vote against. I

02:35:51.040 --> 02:35:53.176
declare the foreshadowed

02:35:53.200 --> 02:35:56.200
um carried. So then we go to seal 2630

02:35:58.720 --> 02:36:00.295
30

02:36:00.319 --> 02:36:03.319
which is the um temporary extension for

02:36:05.040 --> 02:36:07.415
the membership to the northern and

02:36:07.439 --> 02:36:09.976
central flood plane risk management.

02:36:10.000 --> 02:36:12.056
Councelor Killian.

02:36:12.080 --> 02:36:15.016
Thank you madame mayor. Um I have a one

02:36:15.040 --> 02:36:17.976
simple question with this. I I happy to

02:36:18.000 --> 02:36:18.856
move the

02:36:18.880 --> 02:36:21.880
seconder, councelor Boyd, councelor

02:36:22.560 --> 02:36:23.816
Kian.

02:36:23.840 --> 02:36:26.840
My question is um um am I right in

02:36:27.439 --> 02:36:30.056
thinking that there is no time frame on

02:36:30.080 --> 02:36:32.856
the extension of the committee's um

02:36:32.880 --> 02:36:34.375
life.

02:36:34.399 --> 02:36:37.399
Um it just I just thought that we would

02:36:38.399 --> 02:36:40.696
have a time frame where we expected to

02:36:40.720 --> 02:36:43.720
have um the everything all wrapped up

02:36:45.280 --> 02:36:47.415
have you know endorse the lower shaaven

02:36:47.439 --> 02:36:49.256
river what if the committee won't

02:36:49.280 --> 02:36:51.656
endorse it then just go on forever

02:36:51.680 --> 02:36:54.680
that's happened before so council sorry

02:36:55.120 --> 02:36:56.696
director norwood

02:36:56.720 --> 02:36:58.295
um three madam it would just come

02:36:58.319 --> 02:37:00.375
straight to council we do struggle to

02:37:00.399 --> 02:37:02.216
get a core sorry not a core and we do

02:37:02.240 --> 02:37:03.496
struggle to get numbers for this

02:37:03.520 --> 02:37:04.536
particular committee

02:37:04.560 --> 02:37:06.375
it is.

02:37:06.399 --> 02:37:08.136
So there's a point at which it will come

02:37:08.160 --> 02:37:09.816
to council

02:37:09.840 --> 02:37:11.016
through the

02:37:11.040 --> 02:37:11.496
Thank you.

02:37:11.520 --> 02:37:13.016
Yes. And I'll just give you an update.

02:37:13.040 --> 02:37:15.096
I've been on the flood committees for a

02:37:15.120 --> 02:37:16.936
long time and when there can't be

02:37:16.960 --> 02:37:18.776
consensus, the report comes direct to

02:37:18.800 --> 02:37:21.576
council. It is a requirement of the

02:37:21.600 --> 02:37:24.455
local of the legislation for the flood

02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:26.696
plane committee. There must be a

02:37:26.720 --> 02:37:29.720
committee um for the studies um and when

02:37:29.760 --> 02:37:31.816
they can't meet compromise then it comes

02:37:31.840 --> 02:37:34.056
to council. Thank you for that.

02:37:34.080 --> 02:37:37.080
Um, so anybody wishing to vote against I

02:37:37.920 --> 02:37:40.856
declare that carried unanimously. So CL

02:37:40.880 --> 02:37:42.536
2631

02:37:42.560 --> 02:37:45.256
bereavement services expression of

02:37:45.280 --> 02:37:47.576
interest outcome councelor Killian.

02:37:47.600 --> 02:37:48.936
Yes confidential.

02:37:48.960 --> 02:37:50.136
Is that in confidential?

02:37:50.160 --> 02:37:51.896
That is going into confidential. But

02:37:51.920 --> 02:37:53.976
this is the report in the white paper.

02:37:54.000 --> 02:37:54.536
Y.

02:37:54.560 --> 02:37:56.616
So you want to speak on the white paper

02:37:56.640 --> 02:37:58.536
or you just want um to speak on the

02:37:58.560 --> 02:37:59.256
confidential?

02:37:59.280 --> 02:38:00.295
On the confidential.

02:38:00.319 --> 02:38:01.896
Yep. So you happy to move this report?

02:38:01.920 --> 02:38:02.696
Yes, I am

02:38:02.720 --> 02:38:04.536
second to council on Norris. Anybody

02:38:04.560 --> 02:38:06.536
wishing to vote against? I declare that

02:38:06.560 --> 02:38:08.136
carried.

02:38:08.160 --> 02:38:11.160
Ah, so now we move to um CL 26.32

02:38:12.960 --> 02:38:15.256
exhibition outcomes and finalizations of

02:38:15.280 --> 02:38:18.280
the 2024 Berry Heritage Review, Shaw

02:38:18.560 --> 02:38:21.256
Haven Local Environmental Plan and Shaw

02:38:21.280 --> 02:38:23.176
Haven Development Control Plan. I'm

02:38:23.200 --> 02:38:25.016
happy to move this. Do I have a

02:38:25.040 --> 02:38:28.040
seconder? Seconded, Councelor Steel. Um

02:38:29.040 --> 02:38:31.656
I'll reserve my right to speak on this.

02:38:31.680 --> 02:38:34.056
, do I have anybody wanting to speak

02:38:34.080 --> 02:38:35.896
for or against all questions? Councelor

02:38:35.920 --> 02:38:38.920
Kemp. Yep.

02:38:44.800 --> 02:38:46.295
Yep. Councelor Kemp.

02:38:46.319 --> 02:38:49.319
Yep. And the attachments are page 23,

02:38:50.880 --> 02:38:53.880
oh, sorry, 324.

02:38:56.640 --> 02:38:59.640
These are from the submissions from um

02:39:00.000 --> 02:39:03.000
community consults.

02:39:03.600 --> 02:39:06.600
The draft DCP chapter. Okay. Um the

02:39:08.399 --> 02:39:11.399
draft DCP chapter publicly exhibited um

02:39:12.080 --> 02:39:14.216
includes provisions for character to

02:39:14.240 --> 02:39:16.696
help ensure the developments contribute

02:39:16.720 --> 02:39:19.335
to the valued character of Berry. The

02:39:19.359 --> 02:39:21.896
DCP encourages contemporary design

02:39:21.920 --> 02:39:23.415
response

02:39:23.439 --> 02:39:26.439
over replication of heritage styles.

02:39:27.520 --> 02:39:30.520
Um, that's a staff comment. I'm

02:39:31.520 --> 02:39:34.520
I'm trying to clarify with um a question

02:39:35.600 --> 02:39:38.455
is

02:39:38.479 --> 02:39:40.616
can you can build back on a heritage

02:39:40.640 --> 02:39:42.616
home or

02:39:42.640 --> 02:39:44.856
an existing heritage home or do you have

02:39:44.880 --> 02:39:47.415
to use new product in a contemporary

02:39:47.439 --> 02:39:49.576
design?

02:39:49.600 --> 02:39:52.600
Mr. Clark

02:39:54.000 --> 02:39:56.216
um councilors the the short answer is it

02:39:56.240 --> 02:39:58.056
can be either or it can be both. It can

02:39:58.080 --> 02:40:01.080
be essentially I guess reflecting what

02:40:01.680 --> 02:40:04.136
is there now  versus it can be a

02:40:04.160 --> 02:40:07.160
contemporary juosition. In fact in a lot

02:40:07.359 --> 02:40:09.415
of cases when you read a lot of the

02:40:09.439 --> 02:40:11.335
heritage advice they don't necessarily

02:40:11.359 --> 02:40:14.216
want you to rep replicate exactly as is.

02:40:14.240 --> 02:40:16.136
They want to be say you put on an

02:40:16.160 --> 02:40:18.455
addition. They want you to be able to

02:40:18.479 --> 02:40:20.776
know what is the original and what is

02:40:20.800 --> 02:40:23.496
the addition. So it really is a personal

02:40:23.520 --> 02:40:24.856
choice whether you want to try and

02:40:24.880 --> 02:40:26.295
replicate or you want to provide

02:40:26.319 --> 02:40:28.295
something different provided you kind of

02:40:28.319 --> 02:40:30.856
consider things like bulk and scale

02:40:30.880 --> 02:40:33.256
color etc.

02:40:33.280 --> 02:40:35.415
Okay. Thank you Gordon. It just says the

02:40:35.439 --> 02:40:38.439
DCP encourages contemporary design

02:40:38.560 --> 02:40:41.560
response over replication of heritage

02:40:41.920 --> 02:40:44.920
styles. So that was the question on that

02:40:45.520 --> 02:40:48.520
and then we noticed the  Mr. Felton

02:40:48.720 --> 02:40:50.616
the deput

02:40:50.640 --> 02:40:53.496
um

02:40:53.520 --> 02:40:55.896
when somebody opts out of a heritage

02:40:55.920 --> 02:40:58.920
listing what happens to these properties

02:41:01.359 --> 02:41:03.176
going forward

02:41:03.200 --> 02:41:05.736
Mr. Clark.

02:41:05.760 --> 02:41:08.616
So, so councilors, opt out is not

02:41:08.640 --> 02:41:11.096
necessarily a formal thing which sits in

02:41:11.120 --> 02:41:13.896
legislation. Um, opt out is some is

02:41:13.920 --> 02:41:15.736
something which is I would suggest is

02:41:15.760 --> 02:41:18.136
potentially gift to this council. Going

02:41:18.160 --> 02:41:20.295
back to the original heritage leap in

02:41:20.319 --> 02:41:23.016
the late 1990s when the council of the

02:41:23.040 --> 02:41:25.976
day gave people who were potentially

02:41:26.000 --> 02:41:27.816
about to be heritage listed the

02:41:27.840 --> 02:41:30.840
opportunity to opt out of that listing.

02:41:31.040 --> 02:41:33.176
And that carried through various

02:41:33.200 --> 02:41:35.415
councils up until the previous council

02:41:35.439 --> 02:41:37.335
who considered this matter and we

02:41:37.359 --> 02:41:39.415
specifically asked during the

02:41:39.439 --> 02:41:41.496
preparation of that are you going to

02:41:41.520 --> 02:41:43.256
carry that that previous opt out

02:41:43.280 --> 02:41:45.415
provision through and the answer was no.

02:41:45.439 --> 02:41:47.816
 we're quite happy to revisit some of

02:41:47.840 --> 02:41:50.056
those properties being reinccluded in

02:41:50.080 --> 02:41:53.080
the leap. Um so opt out is is not

02:41:53.760 --> 02:41:56.136
necessarily a thing that exists other

02:41:56.160 --> 02:41:57.816
potentially than in this council and

02:41:57.840 --> 02:42:00.840
it's not a statutory thing either.

02:42:02.399 --> 02:42:04.616
it won't put their properties up. Um,

02:42:04.640 --> 02:42:06.936
increased insurance um, compliance

02:42:06.960 --> 02:42:09.656
demands. I understand they're not our

02:42:09.680 --> 02:42:12.680
business, but I'm thinking heritage as

02:42:12.960 --> 02:42:15.576
in antique homes are to stay. They're

02:42:15.600 --> 02:42:17.335
allowed to stay. They won't be

02:42:17.359 --> 02:42:20.359
non-compliant as such.

02:42:22.080 --> 02:42:25.016
Um, councelor, there was kind of a lot

02:42:25.040 --> 02:42:27.176
in that that but I suppose there is one

02:42:27.200 --> 02:42:29.656
view that that heritage listing devalues

02:42:29.680 --> 02:42:31.736
a house but there's also a contrary view

02:42:31.760 --> 02:42:33.496
that says that it it potentially

02:42:33.520 --> 02:42:36.520
increases it in value. So  there are

02:42:36.800 --> 02:42:38.536
things that come with it both both

02:42:38.560 --> 02:42:41.016
positive and negative. So I think they

02:42:41.040 --> 02:42:42.776
all need to be kind of weighed up in

02:42:42.800 --> 02:42:45.176
this setting. Um can you go back to what

02:42:45.200 --> 02:42:46.936
your last part of your question was

02:42:46.960 --> 02:42:48.216
please?

02:42:48.240 --> 02:42:51.240
Um in relation to

02:42:52.160 --> 02:42:54.216
 their herit when something's listing

02:42:54.240 --> 02:42:57.240
as heritage  doesn't that stop them

02:42:57.920 --> 02:43:00.920
from doing  certain things in regards

02:43:01.520 --> 02:43:03.656
to character statements and stuff like

02:43:03.680 --> 02:43:04.136
that?

02:43:04.160 --> 02:43:07.160
Um so the heritage listing by itself in

02:43:07.439 --> 02:43:10.136
itself does not stop you reusing,

02:43:10.160 --> 02:43:13.160
redeveloping, replacing um in in the

02:43:13.359 --> 02:43:16.359
setting of of the development. Um we've

02:43:16.479 --> 02:43:18.936
got lots of examples including as

02:43:18.960 --> 02:43:21.736
recently as last year um council gave

02:43:21.760 --> 02:43:23.816
consent to the demolition of a heritage

02:43:23.840 --> 02:43:26.840
item in Kurong for example. So heritage

02:43:27.200 --> 02:43:28.936
listing

02:43:28.960 --> 02:43:30.856
is not necessarily freezing that

02:43:30.880 --> 02:43:33.256
property a point in time. It allows it

02:43:33.280 --> 02:43:35.096
to be repaired. It allows it to be

02:43:35.120 --> 02:43:37.736
modified. It allows it to be redeveloped

02:43:37.760 --> 02:43:39.736
and and in certain circumstances also

02:43:39.760 --> 02:43:42.056
allows it to be demolished um if

02:43:42.080 --> 02:43:43.816
appropriate justification can be

02:43:43.840 --> 02:43:46.840
provided. and restored to its original

02:43:47.040 --> 02:43:49.176
condition as in

02:43:49.200 --> 02:43:50.455
heritage style.

02:43:50.479 --> 02:43:52.696
Should that be the desire of of the

02:43:52.720 --> 02:43:55.255
owner, then yes, it can be restored if

02:43:55.279 --> 02:43:58.279
it if it needs to be restored.

02:43:58.560 --> 02:43:59.976
Okay. Thank you.

02:44:00.000 --> 02:44:03.000
Thank you, Council Norris.

02:44:04.720 --> 02:44:07.096
Thanks, Mayor White. Um, I've gone

02:44:07.120 --> 02:44:09.816
either way on this one since reading it

02:44:09.840 --> 02:44:11.816
in the paper and I'm sure my ward one

02:44:11.840 --> 02:44:13.576
colleagues and I have had the same

02:44:13.600 --> 02:44:15.016
amount of correspondences through our

02:44:15.040 --> 02:44:17.415
inbox this  this past little while

02:44:17.439 --> 02:44:19.736
since this has been out. Question I

02:44:19.760 --> 02:44:22.056
would put to staff is does this really

02:44:22.080 --> 02:44:23.576
limit

02:44:23.600 --> 02:44:26.295
a resident's

02:44:26.319 --> 02:44:29.319
ability to change, adapt or use their

02:44:31.600 --> 02:44:34.600
homes as they otherwise would.

02:44:34.640 --> 02:44:35.896
forget that's that it's a bit of a

02:44:35.920 --> 02:44:38.920
crystal ball type question, but um does

02:44:39.200 --> 02:44:41.176
it restrict a resident doing what they

02:44:41.200 --> 02:44:44.200
want to do with their with their home?

02:44:46.000 --> 02:44:47.176
I think Lou did

02:44:47.200 --> 02:44:50.200
my turn. Um through you, Madame May. Um

02:44:52.000 --> 02:44:54.375
not not real. So ultimately, I mean it

02:44:54.399 --> 02:44:56.455
depends what are we talking about here.

02:44:56.479 --> 02:44:58.375
Um it there are some restrictions being

02:44:58.399 --> 02:45:01.399
placed um through the leap. um you it

02:45:02.720 --> 02:45:05.255
doesn't stop the ability to put in a DA

02:45:05.279 --> 02:45:07.255
and and really you know propose a bunch

02:45:07.279 --> 02:45:09.816
of changes. Um it'll be considered in

02:45:09.840 --> 02:45:11.896
context of what that heritage listing

02:45:11.920 --> 02:45:14.920
values what values are. Um so so

02:45:15.520 --> 02:45:17.016
ultimately no we're talking about how

02:45:17.040 --> 02:45:19.016
people can live and use the properties.

02:45:19.040 --> 02:45:20.616
It's definitely not about that heritage

02:45:20.640 --> 02:45:22.936
listings is that's not the intent. The

02:45:22.960 --> 02:45:24.856
intent is about seeing development

02:45:24.880 --> 02:45:27.016
happen in synergy with the comm with the

02:45:27.040 --> 02:45:30.040
community's look and feel. So, um it

02:45:30.399 --> 02:45:32.056
it's absolutely not about not

02:45:32.080 --> 02:45:34.616
developing, if that makes sense. And

02:45:34.640 --> 02:45:37.576
yeah, the use is encouraged. Um there's

02:45:37.600 --> 02:45:39.896
a lot of really creative adaptive reuse

02:45:39.920 --> 02:45:41.736
of heritage buildings throughout New

02:45:41.760 --> 02:45:43.255
South Wales, and I think it really needs

02:45:43.279 --> 02:45:45.576
to be applauded. Um so, yeah, it's

02:45:45.600 --> 02:45:47.496
absolutely not the intent.

02:45:47.520 --> 02:45:49.496
And thank you, director. Um I think the

02:45:49.520 --> 02:45:51.016
other supplementary part of that

02:45:51.040 --> 02:45:53.176
question is um sympathetic

02:45:53.200 --> 02:45:55.496
redevelopment. that really fits into

02:45:55.520 --> 02:45:58.520
what we're encouraging with this. Yeah.

02:45:59.600 --> 02:46:02.455
Thank you. Um so, so I've gone each way

02:46:02.479 --> 02:46:03.976
on this one as it's come out as I've

02:46:04.000 --> 02:46:07.000
said before and I really think that we

02:46:07.120 --> 02:46:09.415
we should be moving this one forward. We

02:46:09.439 --> 02:46:11.335
need to be making a line in the sand. We

02:46:11.359 --> 02:46:13.656
don't want to museumify Berry. Although

02:46:13.680 --> 02:46:15.496
I said last time we discussed this, I

02:46:15.520 --> 02:46:18.375
really love the term. Um but but we

02:46:18.399 --> 02:46:21.096
really do want to capture the essence. I

02:46:21.120 --> 02:46:22.856
mean I I had a journey the other day

02:46:22.880 --> 02:46:24.696
coming back through Mosval Midong and

02:46:24.720 --> 02:46:27.255
you know that that area has that appeal

02:46:27.279 --> 02:46:29.656
to it where it's got that heritage. We

02:46:29.680 --> 02:46:31.496
want that in Berry. That is what Berry

02:46:31.520 --> 02:46:34.056
is built on. So I feel as though we

02:46:34.080 --> 02:46:35.255
should be moving this one through

02:46:35.279 --> 02:46:36.936
tonight and we should be making sure

02:46:36.960 --> 02:46:39.960
that the the area of Berry, the part of

02:46:40.479 --> 02:46:42.056
this heritage listening which we're

02:46:42.080 --> 02:46:44.536
looking to move forward with is actually

02:46:44.560 --> 02:46:47.016
encompassing what is the heart of Berry.

02:46:47.040 --> 02:46:50.040
Thank you, Councelor Wilkins.

02:46:51.359 --> 02:46:54.216
, thanks Madame Mayor. I should

02:46:54.240 --> 02:46:57.240
declare, which I didn't before, a less

02:46:57.600 --> 02:46:59.656
than significant non-punerary interest

02:46:59.680 --> 02:47:01.816
because even though I don't live in

02:47:01.840 --> 02:47:04.056
Berry, I live close to Berry and I love

02:47:04.080 --> 02:47:07.080
Berry. So, I'll declare that. Um,

02:47:09.279 --> 02:47:11.255
it's it's an unbelievable place, Barry.

02:47:11.279 --> 02:47:13.176
It's it stands out. And the people who

02:47:13.200 --> 02:47:16.200
have worked on this document have 

02:47:16.479 --> 02:47:19.096
have  done a brilliant job. And you

02:47:19.120 --> 02:47:20.616
only have to tour through New South

02:47:20.640 --> 02:47:23.640
Wales and parts of Queensland and and

02:47:23.920 --> 02:47:26.056
parts of Sydney to realize that if you

02:47:26.080 --> 02:47:29.080
 if you destroy something or if you

02:47:30.000 --> 02:47:32.136
lose something, it's hard to get back.

02:47:32.160 --> 02:47:34.295
And many people have done that. And I

02:47:34.319 --> 02:47:36.056
think it's crystallized that the two

02:47:36.080 --> 02:47:38.536
stances which  councelor Norris

02:47:38.560 --> 02:47:41.560
alluded to um just briefly  from

02:47:42.560 --> 02:47:45.176
Cassandra Harris in part of her email.

02:47:45.200 --> 02:47:47.496
He says, "The proposed heritage

02:47:47.520 --> 02:47:50.056
conservation area for Princess Street is

02:47:50.080 --> 02:47:53.080
vital. Our heritage is not simply a

02:47:53.359 --> 02:47:56.359
backdrop. It is the heart of the town,

02:47:56.640 --> 02:47:59.640
the reason families chose to live here

02:47:59.920 --> 02:48:02.920
and the reason visitors return year

02:48:03.439 --> 02:48:06.439
after year."  but on the other page 

02:48:06.800 --> 02:48:09.576
from Joe Miles, while I support heritage

02:48:09.600 --> 02:48:11.736
preservation, the proposed controls are

02:48:11.760 --> 02:48:14.696
extremely broad and will affect many

02:48:14.720 --> 02:48:17.335
properties with no heritage value. I'm

02:48:17.359 --> 02:48:18.696
particularly concerned about the

02:48:18.720 --> 02:48:20.856
financial impacts on long-term

02:48:20.880 --> 02:48:22.856
residents, many of whom are age

02:48:22.880 --> 02:48:24.536
pensioners.

02:48:24.560 --> 02:48:27.415
So my question  on the back of that is

02:48:27.439 --> 02:48:30.056
 is there a sensitivity or an

02:48:30.080 --> 02:48:33.080
elasticity to to look after Mr. miles

02:48:33.520 --> 02:48:36.520
bearing in mind that many people support

02:48:36.640 --> 02:48:39.640
the  the other viewpoint as well.

02:48:41.840 --> 02:48:42.936
Director.

02:48:42.960 --> 02:48:45.960
Sure.  okay. I might need to just

02:48:46.319 --> 02:48:47.816
tease this one out a little bit with

02:48:47.840 --> 02:48:49.976
what what you intend with the question,

02:48:50.000 --> 02:48:53.000
but if we're talking about um someone

02:48:53.359 --> 02:48:54.936
who's looking to de are we talking about

02:48:54.960 --> 02:48:56.375
someone who wants to develop their place

02:48:56.399 --> 02:48:57.736
or they're happy to live in the house

02:48:57.760 --> 02:48:58.536
they're in?

02:48:58.560 --> 02:49:01.560
 no. I think they're thinking of um

02:49:03.040 --> 02:49:04.616
you know doing improvements that they

02:49:04.640 --> 02:49:06.136
can't afford or if they have to do

02:49:06.160 --> 02:49:06.936
improvements.

02:49:06.960 --> 02:49:08.536
Yeah.

02:49:08.560 --> 02:49:10.696
Okay. So, it really depends on the scale

02:49:10.720 --> 02:49:12.776
of change. If we're not talking external

02:49:12.800 --> 02:49:15.176
and big change or impact to its heritage

02:49:15.200 --> 02:49:18.200
value and and why it's listed if it's a

02:49:18.479 --> 02:49:21.479
listed prefers to be a listed item um

02:49:22.080 --> 02:49:23.896
that's not you know necessarily going to

02:49:23.920 --> 02:49:26.295
come at additional cost. So, you know

02:49:26.319 --> 02:49:27.816
there is a real scale to these things.

02:49:27.840 --> 02:49:29.816
It can it can be a very expensive

02:49:29.840 --> 02:49:32.840
exercise doing a a reinterpretation of a

02:49:32.880 --> 02:49:34.216
heritage item or something. We're

02:49:34.240 --> 02:49:36.136
talking something really large scale.

02:49:36.160 --> 02:49:38.455
But if this is just really small, then

02:49:38.479 --> 02:49:40.056
it's not necessarily going to come at a

02:49:40.080 --> 02:49:41.496
big additional cost.

02:49:41.520 --> 02:49:43.736
But in the case of Mr. Miles, some Yeah,

02:49:43.760 --> 02:49:45.976
thank you. some restrictions. He he says

02:49:46.000 --> 02:49:49.000
 it will affect many problems with

02:49:49.120 --> 02:49:52.056
many properties with no heritage value.

02:49:52.080 --> 02:49:55.080
I'm assuming he's is relating that to

02:49:55.359 --> 02:49:57.896
what you can and can't do under the

02:49:57.920 --> 02:50:00.295
under the very strict guideline.

02:50:00.319 --> 02:50:03.319
Yeah. Okay. So, this might be um a

02:50:03.359 --> 02:50:04.936
question around those properties that

02:50:04.960 --> 02:50:06.856
don't necessarily have a direct listing

02:50:06.880 --> 02:50:08.375
but are in the conservation area. Is

02:50:08.399 --> 02:50:10.936
that the sort of Yeah. Okay.  I

02:50:10.960 --> 02:50:12.455
suppose that the point is in when

02:50:12.479 --> 02:50:13.816
they're within the conservation area,

02:50:13.840 --> 02:50:15.496
they are still contributing to that look

02:50:15.520 --> 02:50:18.136
and feel of Berry because there is a a

02:50:18.160 --> 02:50:19.976
bit of a design pattern and and a way

02:50:20.000 --> 02:50:23.000
that that town has has evolved.  so

02:50:23.040 --> 02:50:24.936
there'll be contributing factors. It

02:50:24.960 --> 02:50:26.375
won't necessar it won't stop their

02:50:26.399 --> 02:50:29.096
ability to to to develop. It it really

02:50:29.120 --> 02:50:31.976
won't. There will be plenty of avenues.

02:50:32.000 --> 02:50:34.136
Um but like I said, it really depends on

02:50:34.160 --> 02:50:35.576
what they're looking to do. If it's

02:50:35.600 --> 02:50:37.496
really small scale, it's not necessarily

02:50:37.520 --> 02:50:39.096
going to come at a huge additional cost.

02:50:39.120 --> 02:50:40.936
If it's large scale, well, then we're

02:50:40.960 --> 02:50:43.096
talking there will probably need to be

02:50:43.120 --> 02:50:45.816
um some heritage support and advice

02:50:45.840 --> 02:50:48.616
given so that it stays in alignment with

02:50:48.640 --> 02:50:50.375
with those sentiments.

02:50:50.399 --> 02:50:52.696
But what if they can't  what if they

02:50:52.720 --> 02:50:54.616
can't afford to do anything and and

02:50:54.640 --> 02:50:56.856
they're, shall we say, bringing the

02:50:56.880 --> 02:50:58.216
tone?

02:50:58.240 --> 02:50:58.856
Yeah.

02:50:58.880 --> 02:51:00.375
Down.

02:51:00.399 --> 02:51:03.176
If they can't afford to upgrade. So, um

02:51:03.200 --> 02:51:05.415
I understand we've previously had

02:51:05.439 --> 02:51:06.616
heritage grants. I know a lot of

02:51:06.640 --> 02:51:08.936
councils approach it that way. um if

02:51:08.960 --> 02:51:11.816
there's particular problem spots I

02:51:11.840 --> 02:51:14.840
suppose um that that can be a solution

02:51:14.960 --> 02:51:16.455
and I know that also is something that's

02:51:16.479 --> 02:51:17.896
happened through the New South Wales

02:51:17.920 --> 02:51:20.776
Heritage Branch. So there has been other

02:51:20.800 --> 02:51:22.375
there have been other opportunities to

02:51:22.399 --> 02:51:25.176
help support those homeowners. Yeah.

02:51:25.200 --> 02:51:26.856
Thank you.

02:51:26.880 --> 02:51:28.856
Thank you councelor Wilkins Councelor

02:51:28.880 --> 02:51:31.880
Tribe.

02:51:32.240 --> 02:51:34.295
 thank you Madame Mayor. I I know I

02:51:34.319 --> 02:51:36.056
did submit some questions through the

02:51:36.080 --> 02:51:38.375
portal but  a couple of others have

02:51:38.399 --> 02:51:41.399
arisen for me if I could ask those

02:51:41.520 --> 02:51:43.176
 to staff through you madame mayor.

02:51:43.200 --> 02:51:46.136
The first one I guess a statement was

02:51:46.160 --> 02:51:47.816
just made and I just want to clarify

02:51:47.840 --> 02:51:50.840
that this was what was said um that if

02:51:51.600 --> 02:51:53.736
people provide evidence as to why their

02:51:53.760 --> 02:51:56.760
property shouldn't be included in the

02:51:57.120 --> 02:51:59.176
leap there we're still open to

02:51:59.200 --> 02:52:01.016
considering that going forward. So if

02:52:01.040 --> 02:52:03.016
they was that is that correct? If they

02:52:03.040 --> 02:52:06.040
make  if they have an assessment done

02:52:07.120 --> 02:52:09.335
and they submit evidence that that it's

02:52:09.359 --> 02:52:12.359
not too late they can be removed.

02:52:13.200 --> 02:52:15.736
Mr. Clark

02:52:15.760 --> 02:52:17.976
council is

02:52:18.000 --> 02:52:19.736
essentially what you adopt tonight will

02:52:19.760 --> 02:52:21.816
be what we take forward to amending the

02:52:21.840 --> 02:52:24.536
leap with. So for example, if it's to

02:52:24.560 --> 02:52:26.776
adopt the the the resolution, the

02:52:26.800 --> 02:52:28.375
recommendation, sorry those properties

02:52:28.399 --> 02:52:31.399
will be added to the LEP as items of

02:52:31.520 --> 02:52:34.295
environmental heritage. So then opting

02:52:34.319 --> 02:52:36.056
out then requires another planning

02:52:36.080 --> 02:52:38.536
proposal to amend the LEP or sorry I

02:52:38.560 --> 02:52:40.375
shouldn't say opting out I should say

02:52:40.399 --> 02:52:42.056
proceeding to try and take those

02:52:42.080 --> 02:52:44.776
properties out can only then be done via

02:52:44.800 --> 02:52:47.335
another planning proposal and that would

02:52:47.359 --> 02:52:49.736
require let's say a proponent to have

02:52:49.760 --> 02:52:52.216
the appropriate heritage assessment done

02:52:52.240 --> 02:52:54.936
and put their own planning proposal to

02:52:54.960 --> 02:52:57.960
council pay the required fees or

02:52:58.560 --> 02:53:00.375
potentially wait for the next overall

02:53:00.399 --> 02:53:02.536
review of the leap whenever that might

02:53:02.560 --> 02:53:04.536
day when that matter can be

02:53:04.560 --> 02:53:07.415
reconsidered.

02:53:07.439 --> 02:53:09.816
Um my second question is if if this is

02:53:09.840 --> 02:53:12.840
adopted today and the 24th of March the

02:53:13.200 --> 02:53:16.200
DCP changes commence and if the our 2014

02:53:18.160 --> 02:53:20.856
version of the leap isn't

02:53:20.880 --> 02:53:23.496
amended immediately to introduce those

02:53:23.520 --> 02:53:26.520
additional heritage items, are we in a

02:53:26.800 --> 02:53:29.176
planning limbo?

02:53:29.200 --> 02:53:32.200
 if if a if there is an issue

02:53:33.840 --> 02:53:35.656
that comes out like obviously the leap

02:53:35.680 --> 02:53:37.896
overrides the DCP

02:53:37.920 --> 02:53:40.216
are if there is a gap and it's not

02:53:40.240 --> 02:53:42.776
immediately changed are we are we in is

02:53:42.800 --> 02:53:44.936
there a risk of that

02:53:44.960 --> 02:53:47.016
um councilors there's a risk in anything

02:53:47.040 --> 02:53:48.936
that we do as a council and in a

02:53:48.960 --> 02:53:51.576
planning sense um the staff would not

02:53:51.600 --> 02:53:53.976
have recommended it the way they have if

02:53:54.000 --> 02:53:55.816
we didn't think it it wouldn't work the

02:53:55.840 --> 02:53:58.455
the the issue that we have is we do not

02:53:58.479 --> 02:54:00.455
control when an LEP amendment is

02:54:00.479 --> 02:54:02.616
notified. That is something which the

02:54:02.640 --> 02:54:04.856
government control. What we do control

02:54:04.880 --> 02:54:07.880
is when a DCP becomes effective. So we

02:54:08.080 --> 02:54:10.216
are confident if that DCP comes in

02:54:10.240 --> 02:54:12.455
before the leap is amended that there

02:54:12.479 --> 02:54:15.016
will not be any consequential

02:54:15.040 --> 02:54:17.096
issue around that otherwise we wouldn't

02:54:17.120 --> 02:54:20.120
have recommended it to you.

02:54:22.319 --> 02:54:25.319
Um  I have certainly wrestled with

02:54:25.359 --> 02:54:28.359
this one as well. Um I I certainly

02:54:30.000 --> 02:54:33.000
couldn't support it being the whole 

02:54:33.520 --> 02:54:36.136
town grid as there some submissions

02:54:36.160 --> 02:54:38.616
called for and and just  the pre

02:54:38.640 --> 02:54:41.176
princess street precinct only I think is

02:54:41.200 --> 02:54:44.200
appropriate. Um I guess where I'm coming

02:54:44.240 --> 02:54:46.616
from is I I too want to protect the

02:54:46.640 --> 02:54:47.976
character and heritage from

02:54:48.000 --> 02:54:51.000
unsympathetic design.  especially

02:54:51.840 --> 02:54:54.216
where there is genuine proof of historic

02:54:54.240 --> 02:54:57.240
significance. Um but I am concerned

02:54:57.439 --> 02:55:00.439
about the residents who are affected. 

02:55:02.479 --> 02:55:04.375
and I realize that there's pros and cons

02:55:04.399 --> 02:55:06.295
to both. People are saying it affects

02:55:06.319 --> 02:55:09.255
them  disadvantages them financially

02:55:09.279 --> 02:55:12.279
in terms of um development or um 

02:55:14.240 --> 02:55:16.776
insurance but you know on the other hand

02:55:16.800 --> 02:55:19.656
potentially increases value and  there

02:55:19.680 --> 02:55:22.680
are potentially grants available to um

02:55:23.120 --> 02:55:24.936
to fix things on their property that are

02:55:24.960 --> 02:55:27.335
heritage listed. So I I'm aware that

02:55:27.359 --> 02:55:30.359
there's it can go both ways.  but  I

02:55:32.640 --> 02:55:34.696
I am very concerned about those who are

02:55:34.720 --> 02:55:37.255
who are caught up in this and  and

02:55:37.279 --> 02:55:39.496
don't wish to be.

02:55:39.520 --> 02:55:42.520
Thank you, Councelor Casmir.

02:55:43.439 --> 02:55:46.439
Thank you. Thank you, Madame May.  I

02:55:47.040 --> 02:55:49.896
I'm in favor of protecting the heritage

02:55:49.920 --> 02:55:52.856
commercial area in the center of Barry.

02:55:52.880 --> 02:55:55.576
It's an amazing place and as described

02:55:55.600 --> 02:55:58.600
in the enter chapter, it's very well

02:55:58.800 --> 02:56:00.375
covered.

02:56:00.399 --> 02:56:03.335
 also in my opinion the the controls

02:56:03.359 --> 02:56:06.359
in this document are very strict and and

02:56:06.640 --> 02:56:08.536
I do agree with them that I think

02:56:08.560 --> 02:56:11.176
they're very good. However, they should

02:56:11.200 --> 02:56:14.200
not be or should only be limited to the

02:56:14.560 --> 02:56:17.560
area described and not seek to control

02:56:18.720 --> 02:56:20.616
every neighborhood

02:56:20.640 --> 02:56:23.576
land to Barry. I think we've got to be

02:56:23.600 --> 02:56:26.600
careful what we doing here. And my final

02:56:27.200 --> 02:56:29.496
point is that if Barry has decided they

02:56:29.520 --> 02:56:32.520
do not want infield development

02:56:32.640 --> 02:56:35.640
they call then Barry must allow

02:56:36.880 --> 02:56:39.496
strategic or strategy for the town to

02:56:39.520 --> 02:56:41.736
grow.

02:56:41.760 --> 02:56:44.760
That is my opinion. Thank you ma'am.

02:56:45.920 --> 02:56:48.920
Any further discussion?

02:56:49.200 --> 02:56:50.616
All right. I think it's been a good

02:56:50.640 --> 02:56:53.415
discussion um with write a reply. I

02:56:53.439 --> 02:56:55.816
think it's been a good discussion. um

02:56:55.840 --> 02:56:58.136
and we need to vote um the way that we

02:56:58.160 --> 02:56:59.496
think we need to vote. This has been

02:56:59.520 --> 02:57:01.335
going on for quite a number of years

02:57:01.359 --> 02:57:04.359
now. Um so this was originally um

02:57:04.640 --> 02:57:06.696
proposed in the previous council. We did

02:57:06.720 --> 02:57:08.936
a huge amount of consultation. The staff

02:57:08.960 --> 02:57:11.960
have worked very hard. I'm quite sure

02:57:12.080 --> 02:57:15.080
that I attended most of the consultation

02:57:15.200 --> 02:57:17.016
in Barry. I think councelor Norris

02:57:17.040 --> 02:57:20.040
attended as well. Um so I'll put it to

02:57:20.720 --> 02:57:23.656
the vote. Those who wish to vote in

02:57:23.680 --> 02:57:25.976
favor of the recommendation.

02:57:26.000 --> 02:57:27.976
Councelor Norris, Council Clancy,

02:57:28.000 --> 02:57:29.896
Councelor Boyd, Councelor Killian,

02:57:29.920 --> 02:57:32.920
Councelor Casmir, Councelor Wilkins,

02:57:33.279 --> 02:57:36.279
Councelor Steel, Councelor Dunn, Council

02:57:36.479 --> 02:57:39.016
White, Councelor Tribe, those voting

02:57:39.040 --> 02:57:42.040
against, Councelor  Proudfelt, and

02:57:42.880 --> 02:57:45.880
Councelor Kemp. I declare that carried.

02:57:46.640 --> 02:57:48.455
So we have one more item before we go

02:57:48.479 --> 02:57:51.479
into cons  into confidential

02:57:52.240 --> 02:57:55.240
and  we go to CL 26.36 Australian

02:57:56.800 --> 02:57:58.936
Local Government Women's Association

02:57:58.960 --> 02:58:01.736
Conference 2025.

02:58:01.760 --> 02:58:04.760
Councelor Boyd, do I have a seconder?

02:58:05.279 --> 02:58:08.279
Oh, Councelor Killian.

02:58:09.520 --> 02:58:11.176
Um

02:58:11.200 --> 02:58:13.656
I'd like to move that this report be

02:58:13.680 --> 02:58:16.680
accepted. Um, I'd also like to comment

02:58:17.439 --> 02:58:20.295
that it it was an extremely enjoyable

02:58:20.319 --> 02:58:21.976
conference and I learned a lot by

02:58:22.000 --> 02:58:24.056
spending some time in Griffith and

02:58:24.080 --> 02:58:25.896
learning about the program, especially

02:58:25.920 --> 02:58:28.920
the program to improve safety for for

02:58:28.960 --> 02:58:31.016
more vulnerable people in the community.

02:58:31.040 --> 02:58:34.040
I had visited Griffith previously and

02:58:34.319 --> 02:58:37.319
been surprised at how shabby it was. And

02:58:38.560 --> 02:58:40.136
the second when I went for the

02:58:40.160 --> 02:58:41.656
conference, it was amazing the

02:58:41.680 --> 02:58:43.335
improvements that had been made because

02:58:43.359 --> 02:58:46.359
of the safest cities um funding that

02:58:46.720 --> 02:58:49.720
they had had received. And it was really

02:58:49.920 --> 02:58:51.736
interesting to hear about their

02:58:51.760 --> 02:58:53.976
consultation process for that project.

02:58:54.000 --> 02:58:55.816
It was consultation in place where they

02:58:55.840 --> 02:58:58.536
actually met with the people who lived

02:58:58.560 --> 02:59:01.176
there on site to discuss what needed to

02:59:01.200 --> 02:59:03.576
be done and involved the high school

02:59:03.600 --> 02:59:06.600
community as well. so that the kids who

02:59:06.960 --> 02:59:09.096
c who had to walk through that area and

02:59:09.120 --> 02:59:12.120
had to wait for the bus um got a got an

02:59:12.640 --> 02:59:15.176
opportunity an easily accessible

02:59:15.200 --> 02:59:16.936
opportunity to talk about what they

02:59:16.960 --> 02:59:19.960
needed in their town. So it was really

02:59:20.000 --> 02:59:21.736
interesting and I hope other people get

02:59:21.760 --> 02:59:24.375
the chance to go to big country centers

02:59:24.399 --> 02:59:26.936
like this or regional centers like this

02:59:26.960 --> 02:59:28.856
so they can learn new things about how

02:59:28.880 --> 02:59:31.816
other LGAs operate. It's very

02:59:31.840 --> 02:59:33.656
interesting. Thank you.

02:59:33.680 --> 02:59:35.816
Thank you. Any further questions or

02:59:35.840 --> 02:59:38.295
comments?

02:59:38.319 --> 02:59:40.056
If not, I'll put the recommendation.

02:59:40.080 --> 02:59:43.080
Those in favor? Anybody voting against?

02:59:43.359 --> 02:59:45.656
I declared that carried unanimously. So,

02:59:45.680 --> 02:59:48.136
I apologize councilors. I did miss one.

02:59:48.160 --> 02:59:51.160
So, we'll go back to CL25.33,

02:59:51.359 --> 02:59:54.359
one warf road, Shall Haven Heads. Um,

02:59:54.640 --> 02:59:57.640
councelor Casmir.

02:59:59.920 --> 03:00:01.656
So, are you are you moving the

03:00:01.680 --> 03:00:03.335
recommendation?

03:00:03.359 --> 03:00:04.455
 yes I

03:00:04.479 --> 03:00:07.479
and seconder

03:00:07.840 --> 03:00:10.136
 councelor Kemp. Yep. Please.

03:00:10.160 --> 03:00:13.160
I do understand it's only a report. So

03:00:13.200 --> 03:00:15.656
the report it is what it is and I do

03:00:15.680 --> 03:00:18.455
understand that developing concern must

03:00:18.479 --> 03:00:20.616
not be granted unless the consent

03:00:20.640 --> 03:00:23.176
authority is satisfied.

03:00:23.200 --> 03:00:25.976
I fully understand that. What I'm

03:00:26.000 --> 03:00:29.000
struggling to understand is we just had

03:00:29.840 --> 03:00:32.375
the conversation about

03:00:32.399 --> 03:00:34.056
budget

03:00:34.080 --> 03:00:37.080
and we just had a conversation about

03:00:37.920 --> 03:00:40.216
shortage of money

03:00:40.240 --> 03:00:43.240
and and every time that we have a

03:00:45.600 --> 03:00:48.600
situation like this that goes back is

03:00:48.800 --> 03:00:51.800
called in. This was by councelor Wilkins

03:00:52.399 --> 03:00:54.696
last time around and we voted against

03:00:54.720 --> 03:00:57.255
it. I think that

03:00:57.279 --> 03:00:59.656
I'm learning from it that we might have

03:00:59.680 --> 03:01:01.335
to be a little bit more commercially

03:01:01.359 --> 03:01:04.056
aware of decisions that we make as

03:01:04.080 --> 03:01:07.080
councils. And  and and the other point

03:01:07.600 --> 03:01:10.600
that I like to make as a counselor is

03:01:10.720 --> 03:01:13.016
that I'm struggling with the concept

03:01:13.040 --> 03:01:15.255
that for those that have been watching

03:01:15.279 --> 03:01:17.896
the winter Olympics, we build houses on

03:01:17.920 --> 03:01:20.696
the mountains and the snow comes down,

03:01:20.720 --> 03:01:22.216
but the house are built for snow

03:01:22.240 --> 03:01:23.656
condition.

03:01:23.680 --> 03:01:26.216
We didn't stop building houses in Darwin

03:01:26.240 --> 03:01:27.415
after

03:01:27.439 --> 03:01:28.056
Tracy

03:01:28.080 --> 03:01:31.080
Tracy blew the town away. We built still

03:01:31.760 --> 03:01:34.056
building house in Darwin because we're

03:01:34.080 --> 03:01:36.056
building to wind the condition. So what

03:01:36.080 --> 03:01:38.295
I'm struggling with is that here we have

03:01:38.319 --> 03:01:41.096
another one that we refused because did

03:01:41.120 --> 03:01:43.576
not comply with the flood condition. I'm

03:01:43.600 --> 03:01:45.976
not I'm not disputing that and I respect

03:01:46.000 --> 03:01:48.616
the staff decision. I respect the right

03:01:48.640 --> 03:01:51.640
to do so and the fact that you cannot

03:01:53.359 --> 03:01:56.359
approve unless it's got authority

03:01:57.279 --> 03:02:00.279
consent. So what I wanted to have the

03:02:00.560 --> 03:02:03.560
opportunity to to share with my fellow

03:02:04.720 --> 03:02:07.096
council is that we need to keep in mind

03:02:07.120 --> 03:02:09.656
that when we make decisions sometimes we

03:02:09.680 --> 03:02:11.736
have to think of what is the commercial

03:02:11.760 --> 03:02:13.896
reality and what the final outcome may

03:02:13.920 --> 03:02:16.920
be because as we all learning every day

03:02:18.240 --> 03:02:20.776
legal fear is not easy not cheap and

03:02:20.800 --> 03:02:23.800
what really really annoys me is that the

03:02:24.319 --> 03:02:26.696
fact that we delayed

03:02:26.720 --> 03:02:29.496
there's been a cost to it and the person

03:02:29.520 --> 03:02:31.976
that built that house at an additional

03:02:32.000 --> 03:02:34.936
cost to it which guess what who's going

03:02:34.960 --> 03:02:36.776
to pay for it who's going to buy that

03:02:36.800 --> 03:02:39.255
house cuz he'll charge it on. Thank you

03:02:39.279 --> 03:02:40.056
madam man.

03:02:40.080 --> 03:02:43.080
Thank you councelor Wilkins

03:02:44.399 --> 03:02:46.856
just to add to councelor Casmir's

03:02:46.880 --> 03:02:48.776
sentiments the the one part of the

03:02:48.800 --> 03:02:51.415
equation which  councelor Casmir

03:02:51.439 --> 03:02:53.736
alluded to was the cost for the

03:02:53.760 --> 03:02:56.696
proponent. Now, the cost to the council

03:02:56.720 --> 03:02:59.720
was is did seem rather low, but it

03:02:59.920 --> 03:03:02.056
didn't take in staff hours, so you'd

03:03:02.080 --> 03:03:05.080
have to say it' be at least 130 or 150k,

03:03:06.560 --> 03:03:09.560
but  for the proponent, it was in

03:03:09.600 --> 03:03:12.600
excess of $180,000. So, that's probably

03:03:13.279 --> 03:03:14.616
together you're probably looking at more

03:03:14.640 --> 03:03:16.856
than $300,000.

03:03:16.880 --> 03:03:19.880
Um, and that's 

03:03:19.920 --> 03:03:22.136
that's a factor too when  when making

03:03:22.160 --> 03:03:23.896
these decisions and and people are

03:03:23.920 --> 03:03:25.896
making them for  for various reasons

03:03:25.920 --> 03:03:28.616
and  we certainly respect that. But

03:03:28.640 --> 03:03:30.375
$300,000

03:03:30.399 --> 03:03:32.856
 of council money and the proponents

03:03:32.880 --> 03:03:35.176
money has gone down the toilet here.

03:03:35.200 --> 03:03:38.200
Thank you. Councelor  councelor Boyd

03:03:40.960 --> 03:03:43.960
the recommendation from staff was that

03:03:44.960 --> 03:03:47.960
or not the re that this the proponent

03:03:48.240 --> 03:03:51.240
amend his design so it was flood 

03:03:53.279 --> 03:03:55.816
friendly I suppose resist not resistant

03:03:55.840 --> 03:03:58.840
but the flood waters could flow through

03:03:58.960 --> 03:04:01.255
it and he had the right fittings in his

03:04:01.279 --> 03:04:03.816
house to reduce

03:04:03.840 --> 03:04:05.736
the damage that could be caused by

03:04:05.760 --> 03:04:07.415
floods.

03:04:07.439 --> 03:04:10.439
Um and he resisted doing that. He

03:04:12.319 --> 03:04:15.319
would not um reform his design to take

03:04:16.160 --> 03:04:18.536
that into account. And that is why it

03:04:18.560 --> 03:04:20.136
went to court. And when it went to

03:04:20.160 --> 03:04:23.160
court, as well as the um

03:04:24.160 --> 03:04:26.696
 the route, this the um what do you

03:04:26.720 --> 03:04:29.016
call it the safety route to get out if

03:04:29.040 --> 03:04:31.016
there was a flood. There was that issue

03:04:31.040 --> 03:04:34.040
as well. But this man, the owner, the

03:04:35.279 --> 03:04:38.279
proponent presented a new design at the

03:04:39.040 --> 03:04:41.415
court. And it was that new design that

03:04:41.439 --> 03:04:43.976
incorporated all the features that staff

03:04:44.000 --> 03:04:46.295
had recommended that previously he had

03:04:46.319 --> 03:04:49.319
refused to do. Um, and it was only after

03:04:50.800 --> 03:04:53.415
he amended his design that staff that

03:04:53.439 --> 03:04:56.439
could that council could approve this or

03:04:56.880 --> 03:04:59.656
the court could approve this design. It

03:04:59.680 --> 03:05:02.680
wasn't I think he council staff were

03:05:04.319 --> 03:05:06.616
trying to protect us and protect that

03:05:06.640 --> 03:05:09.335
man for for the future damages to his

03:05:09.359 --> 03:05:12.359
house from flooding. Um is am I wrong in

03:05:13.520 --> 03:05:14.776
that assessment?

03:05:14.800 --> 03:05:15.816
Can I can I

03:05:15.840 --> 03:05:17.176
I'll go to the CEO.

03:05:17.200 --> 03:05:19.896
Can I just add to this discussion? I

03:05:19.920 --> 03:05:21.576
think one of the key messages out of all

03:05:21.600 --> 03:05:24.600
of this um beyond this particularly when

03:05:24.960 --> 03:05:27.016
we have large areas of of flood planes

03:05:27.040 --> 03:05:28.616
and the like the more work that can be

03:05:28.640 --> 03:05:31.176
done pre-lodgement by working with the

03:05:31.200 --> 03:05:34.200
team and coming in early  helps this

03:05:35.760 --> 03:05:38.536
process. So I don't like seeing people

03:05:38.560 --> 03:05:40.056
arguing with the council before the land

03:05:40.080 --> 03:05:41.736
and environment court any more than the

03:05:41.760 --> 03:05:44.295
the next person.  but I think you know

03:05:44.319 --> 03:05:46.616
certainly in terms of  our new

03:05:46.640 --> 03:05:49.176
director and the work that has been done

03:05:49.200 --> 03:05:51.576
 we want to try and mitigate as best

03:05:51.600 --> 03:05:53.415
as possible about this and work with

03:05:53.439 --> 03:05:56.439
investors properly across the board. So

03:05:56.560 --> 03:05:58.856
 just as a general observation I think

03:05:58.880 --> 03:06:01.016
it's really important that more pre

03:06:01.040 --> 03:06:03.976
lodgement work the better

03:06:04.000 --> 03:06:06.856
um and you know we we want to be you

03:06:06.880 --> 03:06:09.880
know open to people as best we can.

03:06:11.200 --> 03:06:14.200
Councelor Kimp

03:06:14.720 --> 03:06:17.720
for you, Madame May. Um, was it an

03:06:17.840 --> 03:06:20.840
independent flood analysis or an

03:06:20.880 --> 03:06:23.880
external? Does anybody know that? And

03:06:24.960 --> 03:06:27.960
again, I I'll highlight the issue that

03:06:28.080 --> 03:06:30.455
the communication here could help

03:06:30.479 --> 03:06:32.776
resolve some issues. Can we help with

03:06:32.800 --> 03:06:35.800
that?

03:06:35.920 --> 03:06:38.616
Resolve the issue. Um um

03:06:38.640 --> 03:06:40.375
yeah I might take that I might take that

03:06:40.399 --> 03:06:42.056
specific question on notice if that's

03:06:42.080 --> 03:06:43.896
okay council clamp in relation but

03:06:43.920 --> 03:06:45.255
unless

03:06:45.279 --> 03:06:47.816
I can sorry I can speak to that there

03:06:47.840 --> 03:06:50.840
was we had a a flood we had a we had a

03:06:51.439 --> 03:06:53.176
consultant working for us so it was

03:06:53.200 --> 03:06:55.736
external advice being provided.

03:06:55.760 --> 03:06:56.056
Yes.

03:06:56.080 --> 03:06:56.936
Thank you so much.

03:06:56.960 --> 03:06:59.496
No trouble council Wilkins. You got a qu

03:06:59.520 --> 03:07:00.216
a question?

03:07:00.240 --> 03:07:02.216
Yes. Just a question just to add on in

03:07:02.240 --> 03:07:05.240
in light of  the comments by councelor

03:07:06.240 --> 03:07:09.176
Boyd which I I respect but I I think

03:07:09.200 --> 03:07:11.415
there were many more parts to the

03:07:11.439 --> 03:07:14.439
equation  than the councelor Boyd

03:07:14.880 --> 03:07:17.576
submitted. So perhaps we could just 

03:07:17.600 --> 03:07:20.600
could we get a a a timeline perhaps or

03:07:20.640 --> 03:07:23.496
just an accurate analysis not you know

03:07:23.520 --> 03:07:25.896
not the whole box and dice but  just

03:07:25.920 --> 03:07:27.816
to clarify

03:07:27.840 --> 03:07:29.576
we just clarify you know what

03:07:29.600 --> 03:07:32.375
adjustments were made  just to just to

03:07:32.399 --> 03:07:34.455
set the record straight if in the fact

03:07:34.479 --> 03:07:36.216
that the phone hasn't been 

03:07:36.240 --> 03:07:36.936
represented.

03:07:36.960 --> 03:07:39.016
If I can take that on notice please

03:07:39.040 --> 03:07:41.096
council Wilkins that would be helpful.

03:07:41.120 --> 03:07:43.176
Yep. Right. Is there any further

03:07:43.200 --> 03:07:45.976
discussion? If not, anybody wishing to

03:07:46.000 --> 03:07:48.776
vote against the recommendation?

03:07:48.800 --> 03:07:50.856
So, I declare that carried unanimously.

03:07:50.880 --> 03:07:53.656
Thank you. So, we now go to the

03:07:53.680 --> 03:07:56.455
confidential report. Um, I'll just ask

03:07:56.479 --> 03:07:58.936
the CEO, are you aware of any um

03:07:58.960 --> 03:08:01.176
notifications why we cannot go into

03:08:01.200 --> 03:08:03.816
confidential to discuss this matter?

03:08:03.840 --> 03:08:06.136
No, I'm not aware.

03:08:06.160 --> 03:08:07.736
So, we'll go into the confidential

03:08:07.760 --> 03:08:09.576
report.

03:08:09.600 --> 03:08:12.455
Yep. All right. So, councelor Norris is

03:08:12.479 --> 03:08:15.096
moving that we go into confidential. ,

03:08:15.120 --> 03:08:17.016
councelor

03:08:17.040 --> 03:08:19.496
 done is seconded. Is there any reason

03:08:19.520 --> 03:08:21.096
um any councilors wishing to vote

03:08:21.120 --> 03:08:23.576
against going into confidential?

03:08:23.600 --> 03:08:26.600
No. Well, we'll go into confidential.

03:08:29.439 --> 03:08:32.439
So, through  you madame mayor  the

03:08:33.200 --> 03:08:35.576
recommendation of the confidential

03:08:35.600 --> 03:08:38.600
session as it relates to CCL 26.2 two 

03:08:39.840 --> 03:08:41.415
the recommendation is that council does

03:08:41.439 --> 03:08:43.496
not proceed to a targeted targeted

03:08:43.520 --> 03:08:45.656
request for tender for the outsourcing

03:08:45.680 --> 03:08:47.896
of bereavement service services

03:08:47.920 --> 03:08:49.816
operations based on the risks and

03:08:49.840 --> 03:08:51.816
financial considerations identified

03:08:51.840 --> 03:08:54.840
through the EOI evaluation process.

03:08:57.439 --> 03:08:59.576
All right, with that um I'll close the

03:08:59.600 --> 03:09:01.976
meeting and thank all counselors um for

03:09:02.000 --> 03:09:05.000
their participation.