WEBVTT 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:03.480 So counselors. 00:00:12.639 --> 00:00:14.615 So councilors welcome to the ordinary 00:00:14.639 --> 00:00:17.639 meeting for the 24th of March 2026. 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:21.960 So I'll open the meeting I will 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:23.976 first of all do acknowledgement to 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.696 country. So Shoalhaven City Council 00:00:26.720 --> 00:00:29.335 recognizes the first people of the Shoalhaven 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:32.359 and their ongoing connection to 00:00:32.480 --> 00:00:35.096 culture and country. We acknowledge 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:38.120 Aboriginal people as the sorry as the 00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:40.055 traditional owners, custodians and 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.695 lawkeepers of the world's oldest living 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.719 culture and pay respects to their Elders 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:49.399 past, present and emerging so we now 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:52.600 will have a minute of reflection. 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.135 Thank you, counselors. 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:03.896 We'll now have the national anthem, 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:06.920 please. 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.319 Australians. 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:26.840 all let us rejoice for we are one and 00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:31.016 free 00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:34.040 with golden soil and wealth for toil our 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:39.160 home is girt by sea 00:02:42.720 --> 00:02:45.720 our land abounds in nature's gifts of beauty 00:02:49.040 --> 00:02:51.256 rich and rare in history's page 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:54.280 Let every stage Advance Australia Fair in joyful strains then let us sing Advance Australia Fair 00:03:16.640 --> 00:03:19.640 Thank you councils. Sit down. 00:03:26.239 --> 00:03:29.239 So, I don't believe that we have any 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.056 apologies tonight that we're all here. 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:35.080 Do we have any leaves of absence? 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.616 No leaves of absence. We will move on. 00:03:40.640 --> 00:03:43.016 so I'll move to the CEO for 00:03:43.040 --> 00:03:44.935 confirmation of the audiovisisual 00:03:44.959 --> 00:03:46.215 attendance. 00:03:46.239 --> 00:03:47.736 thank you, Madam Mayor. Under our 00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:49.016 code of meeting practice, I'd like to 00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:50.775 remind our counselors joining remotely 00:03:50.799 --> 00:03:53.575 of section 5.29, being a counselor must 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:54.775 give their full attention to the 00:03:54.799 --> 00:03:56.536 business and proceedings of the meeting 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:58.295 when attending a meeting by 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.536 audiovisisual link. The council's camera 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:02.456 must be on at all times during the 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:04.295 meeting except as may be otherwise 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.096 provided for under the code. 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:09.096 Thank you. So, can I have confirmation 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:12.120 of the previous minutes? 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:15.480 So, Councelor Casmiri, councelor Kemp, 00:04:15.760 --> 00:04:17.416 anybody wishing to vote against those 00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:20.296 minutes? I declare those carried 00:04:20.320 --> 00:04:22.055 we'll go to declarations of interest. 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.455 I'll go to the CEO first. 00:04:24.479 --> 00:04:26.615 thank you, Madame Mayor I wish to 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:29.639 declare an interest in item 26.56, 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:32.856 which is a non-pecuniary less than 00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:35.880 significant. and I also wish to 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.160 declare a conflict of interest in 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.136 relation to Mayoral minute 26.5 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.656 services performance improvement order 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.496 on Shoalhaven city council again a 00:04:45.520 --> 00:04:48.216 non-pecuniary less than significant 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:49.735 interest. 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:51.576 Thank you. Do I have any other pecuniary 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.600 interest? Director McFay would like to 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:56.936 declare a non profit lesson and give me 00:04:56.960 --> 00:04:59.735 an interest in item amendment 26.5 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:00.856 intention to issue a performance 00:05:00.880 --> 00:05:02.856 improvement order as I hold a senior 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:05.880 leadership position which resulted in or 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:08.696 resulted to it after the 1 of January 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:10.696 2025 which is a period in the 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:12.536 recruitment proposed performance order 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:14.455 relates to furthermore I also 00:05:14.479 --> 00:05:15.656 participated in the recruitment of 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.416 senior leadership positions as a panel 00:05:17.440 --> 00:05:19.256 member during this same period. 00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:21.816 Thank you. 00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:24.136 Thank you, ma'am. I'd like to declare a 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:25.735 non pecuniary less than significant 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:28.759 interest in item C MM26.5 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:31.895 for I hold a senior leadership 00:05:31.919 --> 00:05:33.576 position and I was recruited to this 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.600 after the 1st of January 2025. 00:05:38.080 --> 00:05:38.856 Thank you. 00:05:38.880 --> 00:05:40.856 Thank you, mayor. I too would like to 00:05:40.880 --> 00:05:42.856 declare a non-pecuniary less than 00:05:42.880 --> 00:05:45.880 significant interest in item MM26.5. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:47.735 Again, I hold a senior leadership 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:49.336 position. was recruited to that position 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.360 after 1 Jan 2025 the period of the PIO 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:54.696 and also served on recruitment panels of 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:56.216 senior leadership roles for the same 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.696 period. 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:00.615 Thank you madam mayor. I also declare a 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:02.216 non-pecuniary less than significant 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.240 interest in the item mm 26.5 service and 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.496 performance order on Shoalhaven city 00:06:07.520 --> 00:06:09.735 council as I hold a senior leader 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:11.816 position and was recruited after 1 00:06:11.840 --> 00:06:14.696 January 2025 which the performance 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.175 order has been proposed on and I also 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:18.776 participated in recruitment of senior 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.800 officers and ET 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.160 so I'll also make a declaration of 00:06:25.840 --> 00:06:28.840 conflict of interest in relation to MM26 00:06:29.440 --> 00:06:32.440 6.5s service performance improvement 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.536 order for Shoalhaven City Council 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:37.336 non pecuniary less than significant I was 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.336 part of a recruitment process during the 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.295 period of the orders and I'll be 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:44.936 remaining in the room thank you so we'll 00:06:44.960 --> 00:06:47.256 now move on 00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:49.895 presentations of petitions does 00:06:49.919 --> 00:06:52.919 anybody have a petition 00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:55.735 no petitions 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:58.759 thank you so we'll move on to the mer 00:06:59.039 --> 00:07:01.575 Um, we have two Mayoral minutes tonight. 00:07:01.599 --> 00:07:04.599 and we have we've got an addendum 00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:06.696 agenda for a mayoral minute. Can I have 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.575 somebody move and second the move by 00:07:09.599 --> 00:07:12.056 councelor Killian, seconded by councelor 00:07:12.080 --> 00:07:14.136 Kemp to introduce the attendum item into 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:16.776 the business paper. Thank you. So the 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:18.455 first me 00:07:18.479 --> 00:07:20.376 sorry I've just had governance notify me 00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:22.056 that we need to vote for councelor Dunn 00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:23.976 to be accepted to attend. 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:27.000 All right, I can do that so we need 00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:29.015 to vote for councelor Dunn to be 00:07:29.039 --> 00:07:31.015 accepted remotely into the meeting. So 00:07:31.039 --> 00:07:33.895 it's moved by councelor Norris, seconded 00:07:33.919 --> 00:07:36.376 by councelor Krikstolaitis anybody 00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:38.615 wishing to vote against? 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.776 No. So councelor Kemp, you're admitted 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.536 into the meeting. I can see you on 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:44.056 screen. 00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:45.976 All right. 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.615 Sorry. Councelor Dunn. 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:51.639 Um, so we'll move on to the meril 00:07:51.919 --> 00:07:53.976 minute. MM26.4. 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.376 Mayoral minute condolence motion for 00:07:56.400 --> 00:07:58.615 Margaret Lang. She was fondly 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:00.936 known as Margie Lang down in the 00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:03.960 Ulladulla. She recently 00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:07.400 passed away and she has made an 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:10.615 absolutely significant contribution 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:13.496 to the Milton Ulladulla area over many 00:08:13.520 --> 00:08:16.520 many years. she was born a local and 00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:20.520 she has contributed to surf life 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:24.199 saving to different sports the schools 00:08:24.479 --> 00:08:27.479 etc during her life down there so I 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:29.976 would look for a seconder councelor 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.000 Kemp. So anybody wishing to speak for 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:36.120 this councelor Kemp. 00:08:39.599 --> 00:08:41.895 Thank you Madame Mayor. Margaret Lang was 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.456 a deeply loved community lady and a 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.096 long-term resident and builder of 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.120 foundations of Bur Lake. Margaret was 00:08:50.640 --> 00:08:52.856 always there to stand up for anything to 00:08:52.880 --> 00:08:55.880 better her beloved towns. She forged 00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:58.216 hard for the Burl Lake Bridge and many a 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:00.856 strong stand in the community to better 00:09:00.880 --> 00:09:03.656 people's lives. Marg was everyone's 00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:05.896 friend. She was kind, compassionate to 00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:08.920 all. Marg called it like it was and truth 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:12.056 was truth and she just had that huge 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:15.080 moral backbone to make it right. Mug was 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:17.576 often seen in her favorite old beast, 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:19.736 the Blue Holden station wagon getting 00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:22.760 around town most of her life. It was her 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.600 baby, a representation of the true blue 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:28.935 person that she was. At least that's how 00:09:28.959 --> 00:09:31.959 I felt when I saw her driving past. Mug 00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:34.296 saw people struggling in life and she 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:36.696 was the first one there with help. 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:39.336 Notoriety, no gloating. That's just 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.360 Mug's way. She just fixed it. sadly, 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:45.016 Margaret needed some medical help 00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:47.815 herself with a cancer diagnosis. 00:09:47.839 --> 00:09:50.056 And the community gave back and rallied 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.080 donations. They built ramps to help her 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.296 after her operation. But sadly, Mug 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:59.320 didn't make it this time. She lived for 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:02.360 her family. her husband Wayne which 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:05.176 is you probably remember Langy he worked 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.200 for council here for 43 years. Um 00:10:09.920 --> 00:10:12.920 yeah Wayne Lang was is hugely loved and 00:10:13.760 --> 00:10:16.456 um that was her husband and um her 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.935 children and grandchildren. Margar's 00:10:18.959 --> 00:10:20.935 well known highly respected throughout 00:10:20.959 --> 00:10:23.815 Milton Aladala especially her beloved 00:10:23.839 --> 00:10:25.656 home of Broyal Lake. She will not be 00:10:25.680 --> 00:10:27.896 forgotten. I just want to send my 00:10:27.920 --> 00:10:30.216 heartfelt condolences out to the Lang 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.240 families and the Gumlies and every 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.255 everyone that's connected to Mug. Thank 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.495 you. Thank you. Is there any further 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:39.096 speakers? 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.096 If not, I'll put the recommendation. 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.815 Does anybody wish to vote against? I 00:10:43.839 --> 00:10:46.776 declare that carried unanimously. 00:10:46.800 --> 00:10:49.800 Thank you. We'll now move on to MM26.5 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:52.696 Mal minute service of performance 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:54.536 improvement order for Shall Haven City 00:10:54.560 --> 00:10:57.560 Council. Um I'll just speak to this 00:10:57.680 --> 00:11:00.680 briefly. so we had a meeting back in 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.456 February which was the extraordinary 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:04.696 meeting we held on the Friday to talk 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.656 about the improvement order. 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:09.815 council as it's detailed in the report. 00:11:09.839 --> 00:11:12.136 Council wrote back to the minister. Um 00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:14.456 and the minister issued the orders last 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.176 Thursday. They were sent to myself and 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:19.815 councelor Wilkins as deputy mayor. Um 00:11:19.839 --> 00:11:22.839 and part of the requirement is is that 00:11:22.880 --> 00:11:25.880 the order um form part of a pro a 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.055 recommendation of council um and it also 00:11:30.079 --> 00:11:33.079 gets placed onto our website. Um so um 00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:35.096 that's all I'm going to say about it. 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:37.336 We've been expecting it to come um and 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.736 now it's arrived. I understand from the 00:11:39.760 --> 00:11:41.495 CEO, not sure if he wants to make a 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.519 comment, but we're in um process of 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.279 getting this um the first report 00:11:48.959 --> 00:11:51.576 together so we can send it because it's 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.600 due in the first 21 days. Um and you'll 00:11:54.640 --> 00:11:57.096 note from the details in the report that 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:59.336 there will be further ongoing reports to 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.296 council um about the information etc. 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:03.815 that is sent to the office of local 00:12:03.839 --> 00:12:05.976 government as per the recommendation 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.776 that councelor Killian put up at the 00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:11.336 following meeting. So I don't need a 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.216 seconder. Anybody wish to speak? 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:16.935 Councelor Tribe 00:12:16.959 --> 00:12:18.615 question please madame mayor. I I 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:20.216 realize the report says that we'll be 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.176 kept informed about the progress and 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:25.096 have the opportunity to view and comment 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:27.336 on the draft reports prior to submission 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.856 and as you said that first one's due 00:12:28.880 --> 00:12:31.495 within 21 days. I I just want to find 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:33.255 out how that will that be in a 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:34.776 confidential 00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:37.096 um counselor briefing or workshop. Will 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.576 it come to us by email? Do we know um 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:42.456 when and how we'll be able to um to make 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.096 those comments? 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.255 To director Buckman in relation to this. 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:49.656 The only point that I would make is that 00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:51.176 obviously we're dealing with 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.255 sensitive information around individuals 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.336 given that we're being required to 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.296 report in the first instance over the 24 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:01.096 or 2024 2025 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.120 recruitments. Um so I'll just let 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.255 director Buckman address that 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:08.055 specifically 00:13:08.079 --> 00:13:09.656 through you madame mayor. I did have a 00:13:09.680 --> 00:13:10.856 phone call with the office of local 00:13:10.880 --> 00:13:12.776 government this afternoon reconfirming 00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:15.096 our understanding of the order. Um and 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:16.456 there will be for some more written 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.096 correspondence provided um confirming 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.736 that our understanding is correct. Um 00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:23.416 there are a number of attachments on 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:24.536 sitting in front of me what we've 00:13:24.560 --> 00:13:25.896 started to collect. There's a number of 00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:27.576 attachments. The intention is that we 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:30.296 will provide a summary to councilors up 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.016 through the portal. Um I'm obviously 00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:34.055 going to be providing a number of 00:13:34.079 --> 00:13:36.216 attachments through a secure transfer 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:37.495 file through to the office of local 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.055 government that will have specific um 00:13:40.079 --> 00:13:42.296 supporting documents behind it. I'm not 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:44.055 proposing at the moment that all those 00:13:44.079 --> 00:13:45.495 50 odd attachments are put on the 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:46.776 council portal, but there will be a 00:13:46.800 --> 00:13:48.856 summary document outlining exactly 00:13:48.880 --> 00:13:50.375 what's provided for each of the elements 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.456 of the performance improvement order 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.480 which councilors will be able to to see. 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.416 Thank you. Any further questions or 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.440 speakers? If not, I'll put the council 00:14:04.079 --> 00:14:06.296 um Proudoot. 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:07.175 00:14:07.199 --> 00:14:09.976 thank you, Madam Chair. Um my first 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.536 question is 00:14:12.560 --> 00:14:14.856 is there anything different 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:17.880 in this 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:20.055 performance improvement order than there 00:14:20.079 --> 00:14:23.079 was in the initial one 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:25.495 the provisional one? 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.136 No there wasn't councelor 00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:30.055 there's nothing there. So, so when we 00:14:30.079 --> 00:14:32.296 look at schedule one reasons for the 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.055 order, 00:14:34.079 --> 00:14:37.079 this is a public document 00:14:37.920 --> 00:14:39.495 that says there is sufficient evidence 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.175 to raise questions about the 00:14:41.199 --> 00:14:43.096 transparency, 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.175 impartiality 00:14:45.199 --> 00:14:47.736 and integrity of the recruitment process 00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:49.495 leading to the appointment of Mr. Andrew 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.375 Constance as general manager. 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.399 I I think that's particularly serious 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.320 that particular reason. 00:14:59.760 --> 00:15:02.760 I don't know how we intend to address 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:05.175 that. 00:15:05.199 --> 00:15:08.199 I I really don't but it it needs to 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.136 be addressed. 00:15:10.160 --> 00:15:11.736 Point two says there is sufficient 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:13.576 evidence to suggest that there may be 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.375 broader systemic issues 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.216 concerning the integrity of council's 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.240 recruitment practices. 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.440 Now, these are quite damning findings, 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.055 Madam Chair. They're quite damning 00:15:28.079 --> 00:15:31.079 findings and and we should not just 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.776 cast this aside or we should not just 00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:37.576 say that oh, okay, well, we we we 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.576 need to cooperate. 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.055 They're particularly serious and and we 00:15:42.079 --> 00:15:43.815 know the gravity of the situation is 00:15:43.839 --> 00:15:46.839 serious and we need to as a council 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.055 respect that the minister's made his 00:15:50.079 --> 00:15:51.576 decision and I don't believe he would 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.735 have made it lightly. I don't believe he 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.815 would have made it lightly. So the first 00:15:55.839 --> 00:15:58.839 two points are particularly damning 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.600 and we need to confront this as a 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.216 council. We need to look at the 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.240 potential for where this particular u 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.240 improvement order goes. Um it it's an 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.136 interesting thing an interesting thing 00:16:16.160 --> 00:16:19.160 indeed that we we now go through an 00:16:19.199 --> 00:16:21.896 improvement order and it it has some 00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:24.920 sort of a timeline there that goes 00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:27.656 right through to the end of the year 00:16:27.680 --> 00:16:30.055 which does allow council or the council 00:16:30.079 --> 00:16:33.079 staff in particular to prepare the 00:16:34.079 --> 00:16:37.079 information that is required. But in 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:39.576 tandem with this and this is the 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.735 difficult thing. In tandem with this is 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.055 a section 430 00:16:44.079 --> 00:16:47.079 inquiry which has very very strong 00:16:48.959 --> 00:16:51.896 powers of investigation. Very strong 00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:54.920 powers of um going to council and 00:16:55.199 --> 00:16:57.175 seeking information and talking to 00:16:57.199 --> 00:17:00.199 witnesses and and and conducting 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:02.375 their own inquiry. 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.399 So the two are going through together. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:09.175 So this will be a rocky road. 00:17:09.199 --> 00:17:11.015 I've got no doubt this will be a rocky 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.039 road that we need to embrace. We need to 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:17.415 be able to handle that with our 00:17:17.439 --> 00:17:19.415 constituents. We need to be able to talk 00:17:19.439 --> 00:17:22.439 to the media responsibly, 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:24.136 respectfully 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.160 without slandering anybody and and 00:17:27.520 --> 00:17:30.520 stay on on message online and stick to 00:17:31.280 --> 00:17:33.336 the facts as we know it. So we're going 00:17:33.360 --> 00:17:34.856 through a particularly diff difficult 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.416 time and and I would suggest that all 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.976 councils need to be mindful of the 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.616 impact of the sorts of things that is 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:44.535 happening and the sorts of things that 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:46.296 could potentially happen. So, it's 00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:48.535 certainly a a difficult time for us all 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.376 and let's let's hope we come out the 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.655 other side. I was only talking to a 00:17:51.679 --> 00:17:54.216 colleague not so long ago that said, I 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.856 think we may be approaching the 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.416 administration um hurdle and I said, 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.496 well, I don't think so. I think 00:18:01.520 --> 00:18:03.096 transparency 00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:05.976 is is the great is the great 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.816 leveler and we can come through the 00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:09.816 other side successfully and that would 00:18:09.840 --> 00:18:11.576 be what I hope happens. Thank you, Madam 00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:12.056 Chair. 00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:14.216 I'll pass over to Director Buckman to 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:15.655 comment on it. 00:18:15.679 --> 00:18:17.895 Madame Mayor, I just need to clarify and 00:18:17.919 --> 00:18:20.919 make it um very very clear to everybody 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:23.015 that the section 430 in this performance 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:24.775 order are two completely different 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.936 processes being managed by two 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.696 completely different sections um within 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.015 the office of local government. Um when 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.616 I met with them this afternoon, I've 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.775 also asked them to make it perfectly 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:36.775 clear in regards to their oversight of 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.576 our recruitment p practices. Um we have 00:18:39.600 --> 00:18:41.416 not lost control over our recruitment 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:43.096 practices. What the performance order 00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:44.856 requires is a compliance report after 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.015 the fact outlining what we have done for 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:48.456 particular recruitments at the senior 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.616 leadership level and above. Um their 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.456 correspondence back to us will be very 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.775 very clear. So um media have 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:56.376 unfortunately misinterpreted that 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.936 previously. Um but as I said the two 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:00.696 processes are completely separate. The 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.936 PIO doesn't have anything to do with the 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.096 recruitment of the CEO. That wasn't an 00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:07.336 internal appointment done by staff. The 00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:09.015 performance improvement order is looking 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.176 at our internal appointments through 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:12.616 the two restructures that we've done. 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:14.535 We've clarified that. We'll be reporting 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.336 on both the December 24 restructure 00:19:17.360 --> 00:19:20.360 as well as the October 25 restructure 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:22.136 and looking at any appointments to 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:23.895 senior leaders and above as a result of 00:19:23.919 --> 00:19:26.296 both of those. 00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:27.816 All right. Thank you. Is there any 00:19:27.840 --> 00:19:30.840 further questions or um speakers? If 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:32.616 not, I'll put the recommendation. 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:35.640 Anybody wishing to vote against? 00:19:35.679 --> 00:19:38.679 I'll declare that carried unanimously. 00:19:39.520 --> 00:19:41.816 Right. we don't have any 00:19:41.840 --> 00:19:44.296 presentations. So we'll move down to 00:19:44.320 --> 00:19:47.320 notices of motion. So we've got notice 00:19:47.360 --> 00:19:50.296 of motion C2 00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:52.296 sorry 26.39. 00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:54.136 Notice of motion car parking and 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:57.015 landscaping controls for medium density 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.256 proposed amendment to the Shoalhaven 00:19:59.280 --> 00:20:01.976 development control plan. Um councelor 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.000 Casmirii. Um do I have a seconder? 00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:08.760 Councelor Steel. 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.200 Thank you. Thank you, Madame May. 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.720 I guess that my understanding is 00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:18.840 sunset tonight. It's about 7:00. 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.616 Therefore, I can reassure you there are 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.336 many around Shoalhaven today. At this 00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:28.056 point in time, look looking for 00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:31.080 somewhere to sleep tonight. 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.856 There will be also a lot of people in 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.880 Shoalhaven today which will not go to 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.456 sleep thinking how are they going to pay 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.856 rent next week 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.880 and others wonder if they will ever ever 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.256 have a chance to own anything anything 00:20:49.280 --> 00:20:52.280 in Shah Haven so they can stay here 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.696 they are the sad situation we're in 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:56.376 today 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.400 and what I really like to stress is that 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.496 the housing business is no different 00:21:03.520 --> 00:21:06.520 than to any other business driven by 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:09.960 supply and demand. 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.240 Supply and demand. That's what drives 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.000 prices. That's what drive a very little 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.816 topical today. 00:21:19.840 --> 00:21:22.135 Petrol. 00:21:22.159 --> 00:21:25.159 Do you know why petrol is so expensive 00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:28.600 today? And do you know why some parts of 00:21:29.679 --> 00:21:31.176 New South Wales are running out of 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.200 diesel today? The reason is because 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.135 there's been a broken link in the supply 00:21:38.159 --> 00:21:41.159 chain. Not our fault, but it's a broken 00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:44.520 link whereby petrol is not getting to us 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:47.880 and to others around the world. So let 00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:51.096 me tell you that housing business is no 00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:53.416 different than any other business. And 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.440 therefore we we as the granting officers 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:01.400 as we as the local government with the 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.000 power and we as the last link in the 00:22:05.840 --> 00:22:08.840 supply chain cannot walk away from the 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.000 fact that we are responsible why we are 00:22:13.360 --> 00:22:15.736 where we are today with the housing in 00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:17.576 shall 00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:20.600 I I I do understand I do understand that 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.440 there's nothing we can do about the cost 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.640 of labor to build homes. I know that and 00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:29.736 they know there is nothing that we can 00:22:29.760 --> 00:22:32.760 do about the cost of building materials 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.015 which are more than doubled in the last 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.039 two years. I know that. But what I also 00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:41.320 know there's many things that we can do. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.056 We can start by expediting the process 00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:46.856 of accepting 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.880 applications because time costs money 00:22:49.919 --> 00:22:51.976 and going to court fighting about not 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.616 building something costs money and guess 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.640 what pays for it. Who buys that house? 00:22:57.919 --> 00:23:00.919 Because the cost will pass on. And they 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.256 are the facts. They are the facts that 00:23:03.280 --> 00:23:05.736 there's not much we can do about some 00:23:05.760 --> 00:23:07.655 things but there's a lot that we can do 00:23:07.679 --> 00:23:10.616 about other things. Which brings me to 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.640 the reason for this notice of motion. 00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:16.840 It's about it's about finding a way to 00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:20.535 give an option to build lower cost 00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:22.856 homes. That's what this is all about. 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.496 But what I found the most absurd and and 00:23:25.520 --> 00:23:27.895 I can't even get my hand around it that 00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:30.919 back in the 28th of August CL23.277 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:38.039 did exactly the opposite. They enforce 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.720 more garden space. They enforce closer 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.720 separation. They enforce less or more 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.559 car spaces without total disregard to 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.535 what they will do to the cost of 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.559 building a house. That is what I find 00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:58.600 almost incredible that we did that. we 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.240 the council. Therefore, I I I'd like to 00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:06.360 put forward to you that we have now an 00:24:08.159 --> 00:24:11.159 option to be able to address this 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.200 situation by reducing the way that we 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.559 enforce some rules in our DCP. 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.616 Builders will find them more adaptable. 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.096 The houses will cost less and more 00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:25.336 people will be able to buy houses in 00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:27.496 Shoalhaven. Thank you. 00:24:27.520 --> 00:24:30.456 Thank you, Councelor Boyd. 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.456 I don't think it's in anyone's interest 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.480 to change the DCP in this ad hoc manner. 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.655 the changes propo proposed replace 00:24:39.679 --> 00:24:41.336 amendments that were finalized just 00:24:41.360 --> 00:24:43.576 three years ago and those amendments 00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:45.816 were made to address community concerns. 00:24:45.840 --> 00:24:48.840 They weren't made to stop building to 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.616 stop development was because the 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:52.936 community was concerned. They were made 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.960 to that it when they were made the aim 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:57.736 was to improve the function of the 00:24:57.760 --> 00:24:59.816 median density housing and ancillary 00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:02.696 chapters of the DCP whilst responding to 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:04.775 the contemporary needs of the Shoalhaven 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.576 community in areas such as urban design, 00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:09.976 amenity, accessibility and balanced 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.000 sustainable development. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.736 So by changing them back to the way they 00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:18.760 were we are losing all those um nuances. 00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:23.576 They were m these changes were made 00:25:23.600 --> 00:25:25.655 after in three years ago were made after 00:25:25.679 --> 00:25:28.376 extensive investigation making sure they 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.216 were compatible with the leap 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.176 legislation etc. It wasn't a simple 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.895 change. It was an investigated change. 00:25:35.919 --> 00:25:37.895 When the amendments that councelor 00:25:37.919 --> 00:25:40.056 Casmiri is suggesting we remove were 00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:43.080 exhibited for public comment comment, no 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.279 developers made any comment, let alone 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.535 protesting that this would increase the 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.176 cost of housing. Surely this indicates 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:52.936 support from the development industry 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.336 for the existing DCP and the existing 00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:58.360 arrangements. So why change them? Um 00:25:59.120 --> 00:26:00.936 things haven't changed. Building costs 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.655 and housing prices were high 3 years ago 00:26:03.679 --> 00:26:06.056 and they're higher now. but then so are 00:26:06.080 --> 00:26:09.080 wages and employment levels. Um we've 00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:11.976 been presented with absolutely no 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.135 evidence to suggest that these changes 00:26:14.159 --> 00:26:16.856 will make housing any cheaper 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.856 and people wanting to buy homes in 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.336 regional areas such as ours want 00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:24.360 spacious leafy places um and places 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.255 where there are no access to public 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:29.655 transport 00:26:29.679 --> 00:26:32.679 and and so people still want two parking 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.039 spots. We don't have access to public 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.559 transport and we also want attractive 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.456 street frontages, not cl cluttered with 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.015 parked cars. I don't want to park my car 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.015 in the street and I'm sure people buying 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:48.616 units in medium density housing 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.176 developments don't want to either. Um, 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.496 and I'm sure that passing traffic and 00:26:53.520 --> 00:26:55.336 neighbors don't want to have their 00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:57.176 street cluttered with h with cars 00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.496 either. Um I think it's important for 00:26:59.520 --> 00:27:01.576 all of us to note 00:27:01.600 --> 00:27:04.535 extra important for all of us to note 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:07.559 that on the 25th of November 2025 that 00:27:07.600 --> 00:27:10.535 is 4 months ago we the elected 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:13.255 counselors sitting here today 00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.279 um resolved that we would not commit to 00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:20.135 adding another oneoff additional pro 00:27:20.159 --> 00:27:22.535 project to the strategic planning work 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.496 program unless they are urgent to enable 00:27:25.520 --> 00:27:27.496 the required focus to enable the 00:27:27.520 --> 00:27:29.015 required focus to be given to the 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.496 resolved strategic approach. We agreed 00:27:31.520 --> 00:27:34.520 that four months ago. The work required 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.640 to the end DCP as councelor Kazmiri 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.775 suggests will delay the progress of the 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:43.015 new land use planning scheme which is 00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:45.255 not which has had too many delays 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.416 already. It's going to go on forever if 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.216 we keep making these ad hoc changes. If 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.056 there is compelling evidence for these 00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:54.535 changes to the DCP, then it will be 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.696 apparent as the new planning scheme 00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.720 progresses and can be changed and if 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.255 needed, the changes any changes can be 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:05.255 made. 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.976 They should not be made as a result of 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.775 an notice of motion. It's an ad hoc 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.015 change that we don't need for 00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:15.336 efficiency, good sense, and consistency 00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:17.655 with the November decision. We should 00:28:17.679 --> 00:28:20.679 not support this notice of motion. 00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:22.135 Thank you, 00:28:22.159 --> 00:28:25.159 Councelor Kellian. 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.056 Um, I I need to speak against the 00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:31.816 motion, too. Although I have a great 00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:34.840 deal of sympathy for councelor Casmiri's 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.655 concern about homelessness. we are 00:28:37.679 --> 00:28:39.655 not being put in a position by state 00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:42.135 governments or developers to address 00:28:42.159 --> 00:28:44.696 this and certainly not to address it by 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.720 ad hoc changes to our DCP. These changes 00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:50.135 reduce the quality of our housing and 00:28:50.159 --> 00:28:53.159 the quality of life within that housing 00:28:53.679 --> 00:28:56.056 and I thank councelor Boyd for a very 00:28:56.080 --> 00:28:59.080 thorough assessment of the it the 00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:02.296 planning issues related to it. But I 00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:04.936 have to say that unless yes supply is an 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:07.576 issue just as supply is an issue as you 00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:10.600 said councelor Casmiri in regard to oil 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.576 and petrol at the moment but in just the 00:29:13.600 --> 00:29:16.135 same way we as the piggy in the middle 00:29:16.159 --> 00:29:19.015 who are required to make these decisions 00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:22.039 we are vulnerable to the people who 00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:25.496 start straight away to put the oil 00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:27.576 prices up even though the oil oil isn't 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:30.296 difficult to get and in the same way I'm 00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:33.176 afraid history shows that developers do 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.200 not reduce their prices 00:29:36.399 --> 00:29:38.616 commenurate with the savings that they 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.535 have within 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.015 reduced conditions for for building 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.015 houses reduced quality of of 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.496 accommodation. So I don't think we can 00:29:47.520 --> 00:29:49.895 trust that this will reduce prices. I 00:29:49.919 --> 00:29:52.135 don't think this is the solution. Like 00:29:52.159 --> 00:29:54.296 councelor Casmirii, I am deeply 00:29:54.320 --> 00:29:56.616 frustrated by the fact that we are left 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.640 with so little that we can do to assist 00:30:00.320 --> 00:30:03.176 the housing crisis in our community. But 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:06.200 I don't think that history will mark us 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.799 well if we reduce the quality and reduce 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.640 the the immenity of our suburbs by 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:17.720 reducing the detailed requirements of 00:30:20.159 --> 00:30:23.159 our planning controls. So I need to vote 00:30:23.840 --> 00:30:25.336 against this. 00:30:25.360 --> 00:30:28.360 Thank you councelor Tri. 00:30:29.679 --> 00:30:32.135 thank you madame mayor. to rise to 00:30:32.159 --> 00:30:35.159 speak against this motion. we are for 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:38.216 the first time in a long time seeing 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.135 record investment in social and 00:30:40.159 --> 00:30:42.296 affordable housing and it's exciting to 00:30:42.320 --> 00:30:44.216 see the number of dwellings that are 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:46.535 coming down the line. Hundreds if not 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.336 thousands in the next few years. So 00:30:49.360 --> 00:30:51.576 sacrificing livability at this point at 00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:53.336 the stroke of a pen is not something 00:30:53.360 --> 00:30:56.216 that I'm keen to do. we hear all the 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:57.816 time about the importance of parking and 00:30:57.840 --> 00:30:59.176 it was spoken about in the recent 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.856 housing affordability task force meeting 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.816 and at every opportunity I've ever had. 00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:06.296 I have raised this as have many others 00:31:06.320 --> 00:31:08.775 that in regional areas like ours that 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.496 are heavily dependent on the use of 00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:13.496 personal motor vehicles and not public 00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:16.216 transport. We need to provide parking or 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.240 it becomes a source of local street 00:31:19.520 --> 00:31:21.015 congestion particularly when the streets 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:23.015 are narrow and emergency vehicles can't 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.015 get through. We can't assume that 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.296 because someone's in social and 00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:29.096 affordable housing or affordable housing 00:31:29.120 --> 00:31:30.456 that they don't have their own vehicle 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.535 because often they do. And I'm not sure 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:34.616 what one and a half car spaces is 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:35.976 supposed to mean. I guess the reference 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.135 to motorbikes was given to us and we're 00:31:38.159 --> 00:31:39.816 to assume that everyone's switching to 00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:41.816 motorbikes, but I just don't think 00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:44.840 that's realistic. nor does most of 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.176 the commentary I've ever heard around 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.200 this table from others as well about 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.535 the use of personal motor vehicles and 00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.559 the need to provide parking on site 00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:59.720 and not to reduce that or get allow 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.856 developers to to reduce that because of 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.880 the flow on effects that it has. So I 00:32:06.159 --> 00:32:08.216 too like councelor Boyd put in some 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:11.240 questions through the portal on this and 00:32:12.080 --> 00:32:14.936 I too learned that in 2022 a mayoral 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.015 minute came up to review this which 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:20.039 sparked 2-year review process leading to 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.240 those changes coming forward in 00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:26.600 2024 that were adopted by everybody. 00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:29.816 Nobody voted against that. It's worth 00:32:29.840 --> 00:32:31.336 noting in the minutes there was no one 00:32:31.360 --> 00:32:33.976 against it and of all of the list of 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.655 developers that it was sent out to 00:32:35.679 --> 00:32:37.736 because it was for public exhibition, 00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:40.135 none wrote against it. So to reverse it 00:32:40.159 --> 00:32:42.135 now at the stroke of a pen without going 00:32:42.159 --> 00:32:43.655 through a two-year process, without 00:32:43.679 --> 00:32:46.296 following best practice and with all of 00:32:46.320 --> 00:32:49.320 those views in mind would be a deeply 00:32:49.360 --> 00:32:51.416 disturbing move. Not just because of the 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:54.440 cost as we've heard that staff um have 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:56.135 don't have the capacity to look at 00:32:56.159 --> 00:32:57.816 additional things when we've got LEAP 00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:00.456 and others coming down the line but 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.775 also because of the unintended 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.736 consequences that it would have citywide 00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:08.760 citywide not just in CBD areas citywide 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.296 in the Shoalhaven. So let that sink in. 00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:13.976 What might come next to you? What might 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.456 be built in Banksia Street Reserve? 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:18.936 would would you be happy with no 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.416 landscaping and no parking or one and a 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.296 half spaces provided for um medium 00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:26.696 density on site? I would invite 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.720 councilors to consider that. 00:33:29.840 --> 00:33:31.576 As we've also heard, it doesn't 00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:34.056 guarantee that it will reduce the cost 00:33:34.080 --> 00:33:35.895 of dwellings, but it does guarantee that 00:33:35.919 --> 00:33:38.456 it will reduce the livability of our 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.296 city. 00:33:40.320 --> 00:33:42.056 As I've said in the past, I'm not a fan 00:33:42.080 --> 00:33:44.775 of policy on the run and just changing 00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.535 things at the stroke of a pen. I think 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.336 if people have a DA that has some merit 00:33:49.360 --> 00:33:51.176 and doesn't meet the requirements, but 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:52.616 they feel it has merit and they can put 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.056 a case forward, then they should submit 00:33:54.080 --> 00:33:55.336 it and they should go through the proper 00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:57.976 channels to do that. That changing 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.056 citywide legislation at the stroke of a 00:34:00.080 --> 00:34:03.015 pen, for all of the reasons we've heard 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.039 could be damaging, I simply can't get 00:34:06.320 --> 00:34:08.216 behind. 00:34:08.240 --> 00:34:11.240 Thank you. Um I know that you're next 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:13.416 councelor Norris but we've had three 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.416 speakers against. Do I have a speaker 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.936 for 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:19.960 councelor Proudoot? 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.639 thanks Madam Chair. I I certainly 00:34:23.839 --> 00:34:26.839 agree with the sentiments as outlined 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.599 and expressed by councelor Casmirii 00:34:31.839 --> 00:34:34.776 and in the words of councelor Boyd what 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.655 councelor Casmiri was effectively doing 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.536 was going back to the way we were and if 00:34:40.560 --> 00:34:43.335 you go back to the way we were 00:34:43.359 --> 00:34:46.359 the DCP at that time would have been 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.055 a result of a thorough study and a 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:53.016 thorough investigation as to 00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:55.976 what was best for our people. 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.000 What was best for our people. So I would 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.280 ask council laws to to take on board a 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:06.616 reason for compromise. 00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:09.176 I I would prefer a fourth point here 00:35:09.200 --> 00:35:11.656 that that council staff be given the 00:35:11.680 --> 00:35:14.456 opportunity as trained professionals to 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.480 comment on the motion before us without 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.016 undue delay. And I'll ask councelor 00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:23.656 Kasmir to take this on board and and 00:35:23.680 --> 00:35:26.616 come back with not not a not a a 00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:28.296 review that takes months and months and 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.696 months but in a very quick period of 00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:33.256 time as to what their point of view is 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.095 and they'd have that information I would 00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.736 imagine at their fingertips to be able 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.760 to provide the council to say well 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:43.880 here's what we think u is a possibility 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.416 here's what we think about the points 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:49.256 raised by council casemir here's what we 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.416 think could improve improve upon it and 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.976 they produce a report. Now, I know it's 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.815 easy to kick it into the long grass and 00:35:55.839 --> 00:35:57.815 say, "Oh, let's have another report." 00:35:57.839 --> 00:35:59.176 But it's worthwhile. It's always 00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:00.296 worthwhile going back to your 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:01.656 professional people and saying, "What do 00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:03.656 you reckon?" And and I think there's 00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:06.680 value in doing that. I I know 00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:11.160 the the tough thing is that we are a 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:13.815 middle class society with middle class 00:36:13.839 --> 00:36:16.776 aspirations and often we leave people 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.800 behind. Often we leave people without 00:36:21.680 --> 00:36:23.976 a place to live. Often we leave people 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.000 who are really stretching their their um 00:36:27.359 --> 00:36:30.359 financial situation to to pay any form 00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:33.335 of rent. Now I know that in the in 00:36:33.359 --> 00:36:36.359 the sanctuary point area that I love u 00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:40.055 that multi-dwelling housing has been 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:43.079 tried there and appears to be working. 00:36:44.240 --> 00:36:46.376 Now, if you look at the side of Mlan's 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.400 Point Road, next to the the nursery 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.936 there, next to the garden center, there 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.095 are quite a few people live in that one 00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.119 building. Fairly modest 00:36:58.560 --> 00:37:01.335 residents, just a simple little bedroom 00:37:01.359 --> 00:37:02.376 and a 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.400 and a lounge, dining area, shower. 00:37:07.040 --> 00:37:09.736 Quite basic, but those people have a 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:11.896 spring in their step. 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:13.496 I know a guy by the name of Russell. I 00:37:13.520 --> 00:37:16.520 won't mention his surname that that just 00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:19.416 loves it. He's got his golf clubs in the 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.256 hall there, 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.280 gets up each day, showers up, and after 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:25.815 the golf course he goes, and his quality 00:37:25.839 --> 00:37:28.296 of life is quite something. Now, it's 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:30.136 not for everyone, but that's what he can 00:37:30.160 --> 00:37:32.536 afford. And that's what affordable 00:37:32.560 --> 00:37:34.296 housing is about. It's actually looking 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.320 at the people and thinking, what can we 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.896 as a society, what can we as a council 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.696 do for you? If if you go around St. 00:37:42.720 --> 00:37:44.296 George's base and look at the Jehovah's 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.320 Witness area and the the the multiple 00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.376 dwellings there with quite large 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:51.976 verandas 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:53.575 and you see people sitting out in those 00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:54.936 verandas there in the afternoon and the 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.335 cooker bars are landing on the rail and 00:37:57.359 --> 00:38:00.359 they love the area. You go to Basin View 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:03.176 similar thing this is what affordable 00:38:03.200 --> 00:38:05.016 housing is all about. It's not about 00:38:05.040 --> 00:38:07.896 being yepy. It's not about putting 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.536 things beyond people's reach. It's about 00:38:10.560 --> 00:38:12.536 what Kasmir's council of Kasmir is 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:15.176 trying to do is put it back within 00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:17.736 people's reach. And I believe that the 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:20.536 the link between what councelor Casmiri 00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:22.696 wants and what the people are 00:38:22.720 --> 00:38:25.176 desperately crying out for is to get 00:38:25.200 --> 00:38:28.200 staff to say what can we do? What can we 00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:30.616 do that will actually make it better for 00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:32.856 our people? Now, Alex, when he made his 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.456 presentation, 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.216 he spoke passionately, but he just 00:38:36.240 --> 00:38:38.696 didn't hit the nail to me. He didn't the 00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:40.696 nail on the head to me. He was trying to 00:38:40.720 --> 00:38:42.696 say so much so quickly. I think he 00:38:42.720 --> 00:38:44.616 missed the basic point. He didn't 00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:46.296 justify 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:48.776 the the things he was saying in terms of 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.016 as a result of what I want you to do 00:38:51.040 --> 00:38:53.335 that the people buying in will get their 00:38:53.359 --> 00:38:56.359 product for 20% less or 25% less or 18% 00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:00.136 less. He didn't come up with that. And I 00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:01.575 believe we need that from the industry. 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.176 We need that from our council staff. And 00:39:03.200 --> 00:39:05.416 I believe we can do better. and we and 00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:08.376 we can support all levels of housing. 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:09.976 And sometimes we talk about social 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:11.256 housing and they're really one or two 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.136 off the off the the bottom of the run. 00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:16.856 We we we have to help people all the 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:19.176 way. Thanks, Madam Chair. 00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:22.200 Thank you, um, Councelor Norris. 00:39:24.160 --> 00:39:25.976 Thank you, Mayor White. And, um, thank 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.376 you, colleagues. 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:30.216 with the greatest level of respect, I 00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:32.776 will speak against this motion 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:35.800 for a couple of simple reasons. Moving 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.055 this motion does not build an an 00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:40.616 additional house right now. The problem 00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:42.936 we are facing right now will not be 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.960 fixed tonight, tomorrow or next week. 00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:48.536 This is years and years in the making 00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:50.136 and it's going to be years and years 00:39:50.160 --> 00:39:52.776 before we get ahead of the situation. 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.376 That's just a fact of where we are in 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.936 this in this place. 00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.095 A number of issues I have with this 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:02.119 proposed change are just simple things, 00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:03.656 but they're simple things that people in 00:40:03.680 --> 00:40:05.335 the Shoalhaven have told me over the 00:40:05.359 --> 00:40:07.815 time I've been elected to this body of 00:40:07.839 --> 00:40:10.839 council that they want an an a level of 00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:14.119 amenity that is better. And so if you 00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:17.896 want to turn Shoalhaven into Paramea or 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:19.896 if you want to turn it into Orburn where 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.376 you need to park 2 km away from your 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.296 apartment, then this is the way to do 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:26.376 it. changing this amendment is the way 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:28.136 to do it because that's how I can see it 00:40:28.160 --> 00:40:31.160 happening. But what I see is I see a 00:40:31.520 --> 00:40:33.575 Shoalhaven where people love where they 00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:35.896 live and they love the amenity of where 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.920 they live and I I as as pointed out 00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.055 previously by the people who have spoken 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.536 about the car parking 1.5 car parking 00:40:44.560 --> 00:40:47.256 spaces. I'm seeing a lot of Hiluxes, a 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.335 lot of Silverados, a lot of Dodge Rams, 00:40:49.359 --> 00:40:50.696 you know, I'm seeing a lot of larger 00:40:50.720 --> 00:40:52.776 vehicles on our roads. I'm not seeing 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.936 motorbikes and mopeds and things like 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.496 that. So, we're not living in Bali or 00:40:57.520 --> 00:40:58.856 Indonesia or any of those countries 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:00.055 where they do get around on those 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:01.656 smaller vehicles. We're living in the 00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:04.055 Shoalhaven. We're living in this area 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:06.216 with these current vehicles on the road 00:41:06.240 --> 00:41:09.240 and this is not the appropriate way to 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:11.256 develop for them. So, I commend the 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:12.936 council previously who did make the 00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:14.456 changes because they were looking at the 00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:17.480 Shoalhaven in the current way it exists. 00:41:17.520 --> 00:41:19.815 And I really urge councilors tonight, if 00:41:19.839 --> 00:41:21.736 you do want to make changes, these are 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:23.896 the changes we're making for the next 3, 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:26.295 5, 10 years. They're not the changes 00:41:26.319 --> 00:41:28.216 that are going to get people into houses 00:41:28.240 --> 00:41:30.616 next week, which is what we all want. I 00:41:30.640 --> 00:41:32.536 I I don't doubt anyone around this table 00:41:32.560 --> 00:41:34.856 doesn't want that. But we really need to 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.016 make amendments properly and considered 00:41:37.040 --> 00:41:39.335 about how we want the Shoalhaven to grow 00:41:39.359 --> 00:41:41.016 because at the moment, this is not the 00:41:41.040 --> 00:41:43.335 way I see it being done. Thank you, 00:41:43.359 --> 00:41:46.359 Councelor Wilkins. 00:41:47.040 --> 00:41:50.040 Mayor, just a point of clarification. Is 00:41:50.319 --> 00:41:53.095 councelor Proudfoot's point4, is that 00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:54.136 an amendment? 00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:55.656 I'm coming to that. I'm going to ask 00:41:55.680 --> 00:41:58.456 councelor Casmary if he accepts it. 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:00.536 Thank you. Did you want to speak on the 00:42:00.560 --> 00:42:01.656 motion? 00:42:01.680 --> 00:42:04.680 yes. Um well, I'd like to speak on on 00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:06.376 the amendment if it if it's 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:07.736 That's all right. I'll go to I'll go to 00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.335 councelor Casmary first. Councelor 00:42:09.359 --> 00:42:11.815 Casmiri, are you happy to accept point 4 00:42:11.839 --> 00:42:14.696 from councelor Proudfoot? 00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:16.376 we'll accept it with a condition they 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:19.095 be done within 30 days. I I don't think 00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:20.776 we can put a time limit on it but 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.176 well therefore they don't accept we do 00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:26.200 not have the time the people today need 00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:29.335 answer where do we go from here 00:42:29.359 --> 00:42:32.359 I'll just go to staff director 00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:35.815 there is a regulatory process we have 00:42:35.839 --> 00:42:37.896 to follow to change the DCP we can't 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.776 just change it today it needs to be 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:43.176 put on exhibition for 28 days as part of 00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:46.200 the EPNA act and the regulations so we 00:42:46.640 --> 00:42:47.815 would need to follow the processes 00:42:47.839 --> 00:42:50.839 involved um that includes going out for 00:42:51.040 --> 00:42:52.856 public consultation and then reporting 00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:54.696 back with with the feedback from that. 00:42:54.720 --> 00:42:56.295 So there is a lot involved about seven 00:42:56.319 --> 00:42:57.736 steps involved in this. 00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:00.216 Thank you. So councelor Casmiri will you 00:43:00.240 --> 00:43:03.240 accept it? 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:08.599 I'm hesitant madame may I don't think 00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:10.936 the people here really understand the 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.416 severity of the situation. 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.176 We're depriving our people with an 00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:18.136 option with a choice. 00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:20.136 So we're we're not speaking to it. But 00:43:20.160 --> 00:43:21.575 you do understand we've got to go 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:23.896 through the regulatory process. 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:25.736 I do. 00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.216 So if you either accept it and then I'll 00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.216 get councelor Proud If you don't accept 00:43:30.240 --> 00:43:32.055 it, I'll get councelor Proudoot to move 00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:35.079 it um as an amendment. 00:43:37.359 --> 00:43:39.016 Okay. I'll accept it as amendment. 00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:42.040 Thank you. Who was the second? 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.176 Sorry, just the second 00:43:45.200 --> 00:43:48.200 motion. 00:43:51.359 --> 00:43:53.176 Can I just get clarity for the mayor on 00:43:53.200 --> 00:43:56.200 the secondary of the motion? 00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:58.856 Sorry, 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.776 Councelor Steel. Councelor Steel, do you 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:02.776 accept the amendment? 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:04.136 Madame May. Yes, I do. 00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:05.815 Thank you. 00:44:05.839 --> 00:44:07.575 Continue. Councelor Wilkins. 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:10.599 Thanks, Madam Mayor. I accept um all 00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:14.040 the all the arguments around the table. 00:44:14.319 --> 00:44:16.616 Um all very very good arguments on both 00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:18.856 sides. The spirit of councelor 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:21.880 Kashmir's motion is also admirable. But 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:24.696 I just have a couple of questions which 00:44:24.720 --> 00:44:27.720 could be satisfied by point4 and that is 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:31.016 the difficulty in quantifying the 00:44:31.040 --> 00:44:33.575 overall benefit to the the purchases the 00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:36.599 benefit to the developer even um 00:44:37.200 --> 00:44:39.656 the impact of the look of a particular 00:44:39.680 --> 00:44:42.680 area the impact of character um 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:45.976 social housing philosophy how that all 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:47.575 marries together. It's a bit like 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:49.896 building an ecoourrist resort that 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:52.295 hasn't demonstrated any credentials. So 00:44:52.319 --> 00:44:55.176 there are quite a number of questions 00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:58.200 to be answered and I feel that 00:44:59.520 --> 00:45:02.520 council staff could certainly help us 00:45:02.560 --> 00:45:05.560 down this path. It's it's a good motion 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.456 because it does address housing and yet 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:10.616 it does raise questions and and I 00:45:10.640 --> 00:45:13.640 understand the the antipathy towards 00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:16.680 it. But I too would would would back 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:19.656 the motion with the amendment. Thank 00:45:19.680 --> 00:45:20.216 you. 00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:22.136 Thank you. So, is there any other 00:45:22.160 --> 00:45:25.160 speakers? Councelor Steel. 00:45:25.359 --> 00:45:28.359 Yeah. Um I'd just like to address a 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:31.400 couple of points that have been made. um 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.000 in regards to quality of life for our 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.440 residents. Um so going from 00:45:40.160 --> 00:45:42.376 having homes that have landscaped front 00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:45.400 yards and plenty of parking and all that 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:47.256 um and changing that, reducing the 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:49.976 parking spaces and like I personally 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.736 I grew up on a quarter acre block. I 00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:53.176 loved having plenty of room to park 00:45:53.200 --> 00:45:55.176 cars, all that sort of stuff. But 00:45:55.200 --> 00:45:56.616 obviously that was back then. This is 00:45:56.640 --> 00:45:58.376 now. 00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:00.055 If you're in a situation where you're 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:01.496 renting and you can't afford to buy your 00:46:01.520 --> 00:46:03.256 own home, but this makes a difference. 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:04.616 Straight away, your quality of life's 00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:07.256 gone up. You're paying off your own home 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.280 rather than paying off a landlord's 00:46:10.319 --> 00:46:11.976 property. 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.696 Um, 00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:16.856 if there was no developer objections to 00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:18.696 the last change to this, maybe that says 00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:20.136 something about the fact they saw it as 00:46:20.160 --> 00:46:21.656 being financially advantageous for them 00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:23.256 to go that path. I'm not saying that 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.335 that is the case, but the fact that no 00:46:25.359 --> 00:46:27.016 developers objected to the original 00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:28.936 change tells me that okay, maybe it was 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:31.960 working in their favor. Maybe it wasn't. 00:46:32.240 --> 00:46:35.240 Um I do like the idea of staff getting 00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:37.736 back to us with the report. Um whether 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:38.936 we have to go through the whole change 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:41.736 of DCP process or not or whether they 00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.760 can formulate 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:47.416 what they see as the being the end 00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:49.656 result of these changes or how that 00:46:49.680 --> 00:46:52.536 might best work moving forward. in a 00:46:52.560 --> 00:46:54.136 report. I think that that would be great 00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:55.736 rather than going through the whole DCP 00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:57.176 process at this point in time, but I 00:46:57.200 --> 00:46:58.536 know that that would lengthen things as 00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:01.560 well. Um, so I'm speaking in favor of 00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:05.079 the motion. Um, and I'm also in favor of 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.335 getting a report back from staff as part 00:47:09.359 --> 00:47:10.616 of that as well. 00:47:10.640 --> 00:47:13.496 All right. Thank you. , councelor 00:47:13.520 --> 00:47:16.456 Crystal. 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:18.936 And, um, I'll try to keep this brief 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.416 because we got this is only number one. 00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:24.440 Um, so I just wanted to say that talk 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:26.456 about a couple of points. Number one, 00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:27.976 housing supply is not as simple as 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.295 supply and demand. It's not. The HIA 00:47:30.319 --> 00:47:32.376 says it, the our local government 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:34.055 says it. I've been looking at those 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.136 studies right now. One of the big 00:47:36.160 --> 00:47:38.856 problems in our area specifically is 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:41.656 investment and STS. 00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:43.815 If we we as a council want to start 00:47:43.839 --> 00:47:45.815 changing looking at housing supply 00:47:45.839 --> 00:47:47.416 and making things easier for homeless 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:49.095 people as is apparently the intent of 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:51.656 this then we should be looking at that. 00:47:51.680 --> 00:47:54.136 We have a Kalbar I had the stats and I 00:47:54.160 --> 00:47:55.656 just completely left them in a in a 00:47:55.680 --> 00:47:57.496 different notebook but something like 00:47:57.520 --> 00:48:00.520 30% of the homes in in Caron are 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.800 inhabited 30%. The rest are on the on 00:48:03.839 --> 00:48:06.839 the short-term rental market. There's 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:09.335 not a supply problem in the Shoalhaven. 00:48:09.359 --> 00:48:11.656 It's an investor problem. 00:48:11.680 --> 00:48:13.016 So that's what we should be addressing. 00:48:13.040 --> 00:48:16.040 So this one here um there's no 00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:18.055 substantial community benefit as far as 00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:21.079 we been able to see. Um maybe a small 00:48:21.200 --> 00:48:22.856 very insignificant couple of hundred 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.376 houses maybe considering we're looking 00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:27.400 at well over 14 sorry I remember the 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:29.815 stat was 1,400 from the last one again 00:48:29.839 --> 00:48:31.896 different notebook houses. It's not 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:33.095 going to have that. It will affect 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.776 character. It will affect the way people 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.496 live. And the final thing I'll say very 00:48:37.520 --> 00:48:40.055 quickly is this is sounds like and I 00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:42.055 appreciate um council prayer's amendment 00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:43.736 there which is wonderful but I 00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.136 appreciate that it sounds like and the 00:48:46.160 --> 00:48:47.896 feeling of it the vibe of the thing is 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:50.295 to say that you know we're looking for 00:48:50.319 --> 00:48:52.295 solutions to these problems but make no 00:48:52.319 --> 00:48:54.616 mistake as was expressed by our 00:48:54.640 --> 00:48:56.456 wonderful staff here this is not a plea 00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:59.416 for help this is a fundamental change to 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:02.440 a large strategic document that can't be 00:49:03.359 --> 00:49:05.416 done necessarily just by noises motion 00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.016 and certainly shouldn't be done without 00:49:07.040 --> 00:49:09.815 consultation. You got 28 days once this 00:49:09.839 --> 00:49:11.976 probably goes through to think about 00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:13.736 this and listen to what the people think 00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:15.656 about it. I'm really grateful for that. 00:49:15.680 --> 00:49:17.256 thank you. 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.095 Thank you. I'll go to write a reply. 00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:20.456 Councelor Kasmiri. 00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:21.976 Madame Mayor, before you do 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.055 Thank you, Madame Mayor. 00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:25.256 Can you just wait a minute, please? 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:26.295 Councelor Casmiri, 00:49:26.319 --> 00:49:28.776 just just to help this discussion, we're 00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:29.976 just needing a little bit of clarity 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:33.000 just in relation to point four. So reads 00:49:33.680 --> 00:49:35.016 as follows that council staff Australian 00:49:35.040 --> 00:49:35.976 professionals be given the opportunity 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:37.256 to review the motion and report back to 00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:39.256 council on this matter. I presume that 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:42.280 is prior to it the changes being put on 00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:45.016 public exhibition. Is that so is it 00:49:45.040 --> 00:49:48.040 possible to reflect that in the in the 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.696 actual amendment. 00:49:50.720 --> 00:49:51.335 Mhm. 00:49:51.359 --> 00:49:53.176 Just so it's very clear. Yes, 00:49:53.200 --> 00:49:54.456 definitely. Thank you. 00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.480 Yep. So, write a reply. 00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.599 You okay? Thank you, Madame May. 00:50:01.359 --> 00:50:03.976 I I guess I'm not being 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.000 sarcastic and I'm not surprised. 00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:11.079 This is not about what I like, what you 00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:13.335 like, or what you would like your house 00:50:13.359 --> 00:50:16.359 to look like. This is about providing 00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:19.880 options, providing the opportunity for 00:50:20.160 --> 00:50:22.376 those that want to build three, four 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:24.776 houses in one smaller block and sell 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:27.256 them at a less cost. This is an 00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:29.736 opportunity for someone there's no hope 00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.760 on hell to buy a house to maybe maybe 00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:34.856 get a house and he might not have a 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.095 garden. See, sorry about that. It's 00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:39.335 better to sleep in a bloody bench. You 00:50:39.359 --> 00:50:41.416 might not have true cut spots, but you 00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:44.136 might not have a cut anyway. So I mean I 00:50:44.160 --> 00:50:46.776 I'm just I cannot understand what is 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:49.095 that I'm not communicating. Well, this 00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.119 is about providing people a choice. We 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.815 have no right to tell people you must 00:50:55.839 --> 00:50:58.839 have two spaces. You must have a garden. 00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:01.736 You must be What are you talking about? 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:03.896 It's all about lifestyle. If I want to 00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:05.736 live in a one-bedroom apartment, that's 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:08.696 my choice. We have no right to tell me 00:51:08.720 --> 00:51:11.016 how I'm going to live. And if I want to 00:51:11.040 --> 00:51:13.256 have a big yard with three horses, well, 00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:15.736 that's my choice, too. So, the point I'm 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.760 making, please understand this is about 00:51:19.040 --> 00:51:22.040 providing options, opportunities, and if 00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:25.400 you never go, you will never never know. 00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:26.616 Thank you. 00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:28.936 Thank you. So, with that, I'll put the 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:31.176 um recommendation which includes the 00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:34.200 additional point4. So those voting four 00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:37.976 so councelor Clancy, councelor Casmiri, 00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.055 councelor Wilkins, councelor Proudfoot, 00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.456 councelor Steel, councelor Kimp, and 00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.480 councel White. Those voting against 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:47.736 council crystal, councelor Norris, 00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:49.736 councelor Boyd, Council Killian, and 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:51.815 Council Tribe D. 00:51:51.839 --> 00:51:53.496 And councelor Dunn, you're voting 00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:56.520 against. Yes. Mhm. So um I think that's 00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.800 carried. 00:52:03.680 --> 00:52:05.656 Yes, it's carried. So, we'll move on to 00:52:05.680 --> 00:52:08.680 the next one. CL 26.40 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:11.416 notice of motion Wire boat ramp. Council 00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:14.440 Casmirii. Do I have a seconder? 00:52:15.680 --> 00:52:17.095 Councelor Kim. 00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:18.376 Thank you. Thank you, Madame Mayor. 00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:21.400 Again, I I don't really have much 00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:23.896 more to add except what's already 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:26.920 written in the motion except that I like 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:30.760 to sort of refresh my mind because we 00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:34.040 have had this conversation before here 00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:37.095 about the same matter and what I can 00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.896 recall is we had a very exciting and 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.920 interesting deputation which made us all 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.616 rethink and go away and have a briefing 00:52:46.640 --> 00:52:49.640 on the matter. But the aim of this 00:52:49.839 --> 00:52:51.575 particular 00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.599 motion is to can we please sort it out? 00:52:55.839 --> 00:52:58.839 Can we just get everybody together, 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.335 decide what we're going to do, advertise 00:53:01.359 --> 00:53:03.416 it, promote it, whatever needs to be 00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:06.440 done because that is a confusion at the 00:53:07.040 --> 00:53:09.575 ramp. Been there several times and 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.055 people are not even sure if they can 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:15.079 bring the body in or out. And um even 00:53:16.319 --> 00:53:18.776 even the rescue people want they could 00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:20.616 change oil can't change oil. In other 00:53:20.640 --> 00:53:23.095 words, what I'm asking is please please 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:26.055 can we get all the different bodies 00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:29.079 together get us sorted and going back to 00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.119 what already I thought we decided is 00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.480 sell the trailer 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.880 and please move the container to give 00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:42.535 space for another boat to be serviced. I 00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:43.976 guess. Thank you. 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:47.000 Thank you, Councelor Kim. 00:53:47.680 --> 00:53:49.736 Thank you, Madame Mayor, and thank you, 00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:52.055 Lou, for this notice a motion. , 00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.079 sorry, councelor Casmiri. Um, I would 00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:58.599 like to propose an amendment number 00:53:58.720 --> 00:54:01.720 five, if you'd be open to it. Um, this 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.295 Rubberg Trail has been kicking around 00:54:04.319 --> 00:54:07.319 for a long time. Um, I'd like to 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:13.000 wonder if you could do a 0.5. The 00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:16.760 recommendation is completed in a time 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:19.256 frame of 3 months and a report back to 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:21.896 council. Would you be open to that? 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.920 Will you accept that councelor Casmiri? 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:27.256 Yeah, I think on principal I don't have 00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:28.776 a problem with that. All right. So, 00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:29.496 obviously council 00:54:29.520 --> 00:54:31.656 in the interest of financial I'd like to 00:54:31.680 --> 00:54:33.896 add a.5. 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:36.376 Yep. 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.400 So the point five will be that this 00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:42.776 matter be completed within the next 3 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:43.496 months 00:54:43.520 --> 00:54:45.016 and a report back please 00:54:45.040 --> 00:54:47.095 and report back to council. 00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:48.776 Yes. Thank you madame may 00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.800 director. 00:54:52.640 --> 00:54:54.696 Oh yeah. 00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:57.720 Y director Norwood. Do you want to make 00:54:58.079 --> 00:54:59.575 a comment? 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:01.976 Yeah you madame may that the actual time 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:03.736 frames I just need clarity. we talking 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:05.335 about the whole or we talking about the 00:55:05.359 --> 00:55:08.359 sale of the most of these items the the 00:55:08.720 --> 00:55:10.535 most of these items are currently in 00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:13.416 train so there's no issue as such we've 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:16.136 recently looked at the um plan of 00:55:16.160 --> 00:55:17.976 management for this area and we cannot 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:20.535 undertake commercial activities we would 00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:22.136 have to review the plan of management to 00:55:22.160 --> 00:55:25.160 do that we can however operators it's 00:55:26.240 --> 00:55:28.216 for general community use we can operate 00:55:28.240 --> 00:55:30.856 under but ship rights etc etc or 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:33.656 defailing may would we'd have to 00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:36.616 undertake a different study. 00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:38.696 I just need to be clear on that. We can 00:55:38.720 --> 00:55:41.720 only operate under community use. 00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:45.335 Well, that that will be detailed in the 00:55:45.359 --> 00:55:47.095 report that comes back and that the 00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:49.095 users down there can understand it. 00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:50.376 We could do that. Yeah. 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:53.400 Thank you. So, I go to councelor 00:55:53.520 --> 00:55:56.376 Krikstolaitis. 00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:59.400 Thank you. Um, the good director's just 00:55:59.839 --> 00:56:01.016 actually answered some of the questions 00:56:01.040 --> 00:56:03.575 cuz all I really had was questions. Um, 00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:05.176 so, 00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:06.696 but I'm still going to ask, can this 00:56:06.720 --> 00:56:09.720 Rude , trailer be sold in 3 months? 00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:11.496 And if so, will it mean that we'd only 00:56:11.520 --> 00:56:12.775 get a bargain price rather than what 00:56:12.799 --> 00:56:14.775 it's actually worth? 00:56:14.799 --> 00:56:17.335 If I may, sorry through you, madam. 00:56:17.359 --> 00:56:19.335 Director for you, Madam May. That would 00:56:19.359 --> 00:56:21.095 entirely, counselor depend on the 00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:23.176 market. We will attempt in good faith to 00:56:23.200 --> 00:56:25.335 sell the the trailer itself but that 00:56:25.359 --> 00:56:26.775 will depend on the market what appetite 00:56:26.799 --> 00:56:29.335 there is to actually buy it. 00:56:29.359 --> 00:56:30.856 No worries. And then the next question 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:32.696 again through you madame mayor to 00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:35.656 whoever wishes to answer this um almost 00:56:35.680 --> 00:56:38.680 exact notice of motion 25217 was passed 00:56:38.799 --> 00:56:41.335 unanimously last year. I know we then 00:56:41.359 --> 00:56:44.359 had a a briefing about the oops I've 00:56:45.520 --> 00:56:47.256 got it up here somewhere about works and 00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:49.335 services maritime services on the 6th of 00:56:49.359 --> 00:56:51.896 November. we had that briefing and it 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:54.535 was outlined at the time as exactly what 00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:56.295 had been happening and what was going to 00:56:56.319 --> 00:56:58.775 happen into the future. You've said that 00:56:58.799 --> 00:57:01.736 um most of these are in train. 00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:03.496 There's a couple extra ones there. So 00:57:03.520 --> 00:57:05.815 the number seven on that one from that 00:57:05.839 --> 00:57:08.136 passed in 2025 like I said exact almost 00:57:08.160 --> 00:57:10.055 exactly the same except it said take no 00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:12.456 further action to secure a commercial 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.176 operator for the hard stand area. Um I'm 00:57:15.200 --> 00:57:17.335 assuming that means that they've taken 00:57:17.359 --> 00:57:19.256 it out of this one this notice of 00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:22.280 motion. Um so at the moment can I 00:57:22.319 --> 00:57:23.656 confirm there's no commercial operator 00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:24.696 in Hardy? 00:57:24.720 --> 00:57:25.176 That's great. 00:57:25.200 --> 00:57:27.095 Through your mirror I can confirm that. 00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:30.119 Wonderful. Thank you. Um 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:33.896 I've got very few other questions 00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:36.920 except that I don't 00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:38.936 that's it. Just to speak quietly. I just 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:40.616 don't if you guys are already doing it I 00:57:40.640 --> 00:57:42.136 don't see the point of this motion. 00:57:42.160 --> 00:57:45.160 Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Tribe. 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:49.016 Um, thank you, Madame Mayor. I I had 00:57:49.040 --> 00:57:51.095 exactly the same questions and I I 00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:52.775 continue to be concerned. I I don't have 00:57:52.799 --> 00:57:54.456 a problem with getting a report back in 00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:56.856 3 months or continuing what's happening 00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.880 with the the container and the operating 00:58:00.160 --> 00:58:02.376 procedures and getting those um 00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:04.856 community groups together to discuss a 00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.880 way forward. I I don't like the idea of 00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.920 being tied to a threemonth deadline that 00:58:12.240 --> 00:58:15.240 could see us lose money or settle for 00:58:16.640 --> 00:58:19.176 something if we can't find a suitable 00:58:19.200 --> 00:58:21.256 buy up within that time frame. So I 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.575 guess I would just ask it to be 00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:26.599 considered that the report back comes 00:58:27.040 --> 00:58:30.040 to us within 3 months. Um but 00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:34.280 the sell selling of the trailer be based 00:58:34.319 --> 00:58:36.216 on 00:58:36.240 --> 00:58:39.240 market demand something to those words 00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:41.656 or effect. 00:58:41.680 --> 00:58:44.680 So any further speakers or questions? I 00:58:45.040 --> 00:58:48.040 have a question. Um, councelor Norwood, 00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:50.456 have we ever used this trailer and how 00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:53.176 long have we owned it? 00:58:53.200 --> 00:58:54.856 He's very happy. 00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.095 Three, Madame May, I don't believe 00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:58.856 I don't believe the trailer's ever been 00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:00.856 used. I could stand corrected on that 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:02.376 and we have had it for a few years. It 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:04.616 was purchased through a grant. 00:59:04.640 --> 00:59:07.016 Thank you. So, if there's no further 00:59:07.040 --> 00:59:09.656 questions or um I'll go to write a 00:59:09.680 --> 00:59:12.680 reply. Councelor Kemp, I'll first 00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:17.815 maybe director Norwood. Um could you 00:59:17.839 --> 00:59:20.839 tell me the Rudberg trailer, it's 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:24.295 possible the longer we wait, the less it 00:59:24.319 --> 00:59:27.319 it depreciates. Is that correct? 00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:30.760 Yeah. I I think that's more depreci. 00:59:34.240 --> 00:59:35.815 That's right. Thank you very much. 00:59:35.839 --> 00:59:37.736 So, I'll go to write a reply, councelor 00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:40.760 Kemp. 00:59:41.040 --> 00:59:42.376 Do you want write a reply? 00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:43.815 It's not mine. 00:59:43.839 --> 00:59:46.535 Oh, sorry. It's LE. Sorry, L. Write a 00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.295 reply. 00:59:48.319 --> 00:59:49.815 Do you want write a reply, Council 00:59:49.839 --> 00:59:51.256 Casmiri? 00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:52.936 , no, I think I think it was covered 00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:54.055 pretty well. 00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:56.616 All right. So those wishing to vote 00:59:56.640 --> 00:59:59.640 against councelor Crystalis, councelor 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:03.256 Norris, councelor Boyd, Council Killian, 01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:05.575 the balance vote in favor. I declare the 01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:08.599 recommendation carried. We'll then go to 01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:11.640 CL 26.41 notice of motion calling of DA 01:00:13.359 --> 01:00:16.359 2026106 01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:20.280 Sussex Inlet. Councelor Proudoot. 01:00:22.720 --> 01:00:24.376 Thank you, Madam Chair. Do I have a 01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:26.295 seconder? 01:00:26.319 --> 01:00:28.775 Council Casmiri. 01:00:28.799 --> 01:00:31.799 Um, Madame Chair, we we had the the 01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:34.295 deputy 01:00:34.319 --> 01:00:37.319 um in my view confuse the issue. 01:00:38.799 --> 01:00:40.535 The person I think her name was Sandra 01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:43.016 Gray was listed as speaking in favor of 01:00:43.040 --> 01:00:44.936 the recommendation. Then she got up and 01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.335 spoke against the recommendation. 01:00:47.359 --> 01:00:50.359 So I I'll go and reaffirm and reassert 01:00:51.359 --> 01:00:53.976 what the recommendation is about. 01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:57.000 the the people there at Sussex Gulf 01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.599 Village bought into that particular 01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:03.815 area under the understanding from the 01:01:03.839 --> 01:01:06.839 developer and the sales team that 01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:09.815 the area would be purely residential and 01:01:09.839 --> 01:01:11.736 and their the homes they were building 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:13.256 would be part of that Gulf Village and 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:16.136 they'd have a a great lifestyle and and 01:01:16.160 --> 01:01:18.775 all would be well with the world. now 01:01:18.799 --> 01:01:21.799 and they're so disappointed and and and 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:23.736 probably the situation should have been 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:25.976 better explained by the conveyances and 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:29.000 by the solicitors who manage the 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:31.736 sales of each property that there's a 01:01:31.760 --> 01:01:33.416 thing called a local environment plan 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:36.376 which is local environment law which 01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:39.400 allowed for a child care center in 01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:42.376 residential areas right across the city 01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:44.775 and they're unaware of that and so you 01:01:44.799 --> 01:01:46.856 can imagine the the shock they've gone 01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.335 through and thinking, for goodness sake, 01:01:49.359 --> 01:01:52.216 why why is a commercial enterprise 01:01:52.240 --> 01:01:54.775 with with kids and cars coming and 01:01:54.799 --> 01:01:57.496 going and and all that activity 01:01:57.520 --> 01:01:59.575 allowed to be in a residential area? 01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:02.136 Well, the fact is it is allowed. And so 01:02:02.160 --> 01:02:05.160 when the meeting was called and via the 01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:07.335 local Facebook group and I was invited 01:02:07.359 --> 01:02:09.496 to that meeting and we were unaware 01:02:09.520 --> 01:02:10.936 about a petition that had been 01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:12.535 circulating down in Sussex which was 01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:14.616 nothing to do with that particular site. 01:02:14.640 --> 01:02:16.535 It was a petition that was circular 01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:19.016 circularized just in in general in terms 01:02:19.040 --> 01:02:21.736 of getting more child care facilities at 01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:24.760 Sussex and show that so there should be 01:02:24.799 --> 01:02:26.376 so there should be certainly a 01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:29.400 demonstrated need and so I was asked to 01:02:29.520 --> 01:02:31.896 address the meeting and explain what the 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:34.456 devil was happening with this particular 01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:37.480 site and so I explained that the 01:02:38.160 --> 01:02:39.575 council staff would not have accepted 01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:42.599 the DA if it didn't comply with the 01:02:42.640 --> 01:02:44.216 basic fundamentals of the local envir 01:02:44.240 --> 01:02:47.240 vibrant plan and they were horrified. I 01:02:47.520 --> 01:02:49.016 said that's the way it is. That's the 01:02:49.040 --> 01:02:51.095 way it is. So the the best chance you've 01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:53.256 got the best chance you've got and 01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:55.496 rather than try and demand that this 01:02:55.520 --> 01:02:58.520 thing goes off to be rejected at council 01:02:58.799 --> 01:03:00.295 and goes off to the land environment 01:03:00.319 --> 01:03:01.736 court. the best thing chance you've got 01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:04.760 is to actually look at the design of the 01:03:04.799 --> 01:03:07.095 the building, look at the the traffic 01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:10.119 flows, look at the noise inhibitors, 01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:12.616 all the rest of it, and and see whether 01:03:12.640 --> 01:03:15.640 we can't get an effective amount of 01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:18.456 beneficial 01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:20.936 consent condition so that the amenity of 01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:23.960 your living is impacted on to the 01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:27.480 least. Now, most people there, not all, 01:03:27.839 --> 01:03:29.176 most people there, and I think there 01:03:29.200 --> 01:03:31.815 were 35 objections, and you you'd rarely 01:03:31.839 --> 01:03:33.575 get that for something that's happened 01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:35.976 so quickly as this, , most people 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:39.000 there accepted that. That's the the real 01:03:40.240 --> 01:03:42.775 concerns were the ones that live nearby 01:03:42.799 --> 01:03:45.256 and especially the young couple who, 01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:46.936 ironically, probably in the in the 01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:49.656 future may start having children. They 01:03:49.680 --> 01:03:52.136 may well go to the the child care 01:03:52.160 --> 01:03:54.055 facility. But they were particularly 01:03:54.079 --> 01:03:56.856 concerned about the the loss of 01:03:56.880 --> 01:03:59.880 privacy with people looking and kids and 01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:02.856 carers looking into their backyard. 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:04.936 And when you look through the the actual 01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.656 design, it appears to be 01:04:07.680 --> 01:04:10.680 addressed. I think there's there's 01:04:10.799 --> 01:04:12.856 opaque shading on the windows up to 01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:15.575 1500. I'd prefer 1750 which is normally 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.136 the case, but up to 1500 for those back 01:04:18.160 --> 01:04:21.160 windows on the second floor. U so most 01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:23.656 of the issues have been addressed and 01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:26.535 hopefully when this thing does go ahead 01:04:26.559 --> 01:04:29.559 and I I believe that it will um that all 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:32.456 the issues are addressed. The the 01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:34.856 hardest one in my experience over a lot 01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:37.416 of years is the noise that comes out of 01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:38.936 these childcare centers and people say 01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:40.616 oh they're only children. There's a lot 01:04:40.640 --> 01:04:41.256 of noise. 01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:41.736 That's okay. 01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:43.256 A lot of noise and that needs to be 01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:46.280 overdone. the the noise inhibitors, the 01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:50.136 the calming noise calming devices that 01:04:50.160 --> 01:04:51.976 needs to be really overengineered to 01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.216 make sure the local residents get the 01:04:54.240 --> 01:04:56.775 best possible result. So, in supporting 01:04:56.799 --> 01:04:59.799 the local people and and they're very 01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:02.376 reasonable that you know they're not 01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:04.456 getting around the place saying this is 01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:06.376 just disgusting and the whole of the the 01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:09.256 area will will be degraded. They they 01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:12.280 know that this thing in all probability 01:05:12.640 --> 01:05:15.335 the child care center will go ahead but 01:05:15.359 --> 01:05:16.775 they want to get the best possible 01:05:16.799 --> 01:05:19.736 outcome for where they've decided to 01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:21.416 purchase and what they consider their 01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:23.095 the purchase of their dream home and 01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:24.936 their and their lifestyle arrangement 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:26.376 and their association with the golf 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:28.616 club. So So I would ask that every 01:05:28.640 --> 01:05:30.775 counselor here, we normally support a 01:05:30.799 --> 01:05:32.775 council when they stand up representing 01:05:32.799 --> 01:05:35.015 their community to call in a DA. 01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:37.416 There's nothing sinister about it. It's 01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:39.256 not as if we're trying to knock it back 01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:41.416 and cost us another $100,000 in the land 01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:42.616 environment call. We're trying to knock 01:05:42.640 --> 01:05:44.936 it into shape. We're trying to work with 01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:47.095 staff to get the best possible outcome. 01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:49.896 So, councelor Proud time is up. So, can 01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:51.095 you just finish up, please? 01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:52.535 Yeah, I I will. I just I was just 01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:54.696 getting a bit wound up there. And 01:05:54.720 --> 01:05:56.535 hopefully we all get together and we 01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:58.456 work through this thing together and and 01:05:58.480 --> 01:05:59.896 there's no big drama at the end. And 01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:01.896 usually with these things, Madam Chair, 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:04.616 the result after the post result is 01:06:04.640 --> 01:06:07.095 always a lot better mostly than people 01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:09.335 thought it would be in the in the first 01:06:09.359 --> 01:06:11.256 instance. Thanks, Madam Chair. 01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:14.280 Councelor Tribe. 01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:18.440 thank you, Madame Mayor. 01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:20.216 It's probably no surprise that I'm 01:06:20.240 --> 01:06:21.976 rising to speak against this as someone 01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:25.000 who is unashamedly for child care 01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:27.896 everywhere across this city and I sat 01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:30.055 with Miss Gray at across many tables 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:33.079 where we've been asked to give 01:06:33.839 --> 01:06:36.775 evidence on what is a local need. we 01:06:36.799 --> 01:06:38.856 had lunch with the premier years ago 01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:40.535 where child care was the number one 01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:43.416 issue and we heard about how this feeds 01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:45.176 into a whole number of issues including 01:06:45.200 --> 01:06:47.256 workforce shortages because people can't 01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:49.256 get back to work because they simply 01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:51.335 can't find childare and in Sussex it's 01:06:51.359 --> 01:06:53.095 even worse as we know we heard from our 01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:54.856 deputy about the challenges the 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:57.656 constraints there that have only 01:06:57.680 --> 01:07:00.295 exasperated this issue but you 01:07:00.319 --> 01:07:01.736 only have to talk to the young families 01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:04.456 who either are on years long waiting 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:07.480 lists or might work in Sussex but drive 01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:10.216 to Bombardary to drop kids off, drive 01:07:10.240 --> 01:07:13.240 back to work near their home, drive back 01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:14.856 out to Bomitary to pick them up and 01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:16.616 drive back in. And that's not actually 01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:19.176 an unusual case. That is quite the norm 01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:21.575 for young families. And we are seeing 01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:24.216 lots lots more of them. There are 500 01:07:24.240 --> 01:07:26.696 new homes coming. There are dozens and 01:07:26.720 --> 01:07:28.696 dozens of families, hundreds who have 01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:31.496 moved in. And that's why we're seeing 01:07:31.520 --> 01:07:34.136 things like the petition and have 01:07:34.160 --> 01:07:35.815 been seeing this groundwork for some 01:07:35.839 --> 01:07:37.736 time about how desperate the situation 01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:39.976 is and how it's only going to get worse. 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:41.575 I know there have been talks about 01:07:41.599 --> 01:07:43.976 trying to bring forward that stage 4 01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:46.775 commercial precinct um so that we could 01:07:46.799 --> 01:07:48.856 look at that but you know if if we're 01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:50.535 unable to do that we need to look at 01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:52.295 other mechanisms like having it in 01:07:52.319 --> 01:07:54.775 residential areas as has been said is 01:07:54.799 --> 01:07:56.775 allowed. 01:07:56.799 --> 01:07:58.216 we've heard that there are young 01:07:58.240 --> 01:07:59.896 families near the development who are 01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:01.976 also for it, who are also desperate for 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:05.000 child care and I I would like to assure 01:08:05.200 --> 01:08:06.856 my fellow counselors that those little 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:09.335 people can't see over those window sills 01:08:09.359 --> 01:08:11.416 at 500500 01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:13.976 mills. You won't have to worry about 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:15.976 them looking over at at other 01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:17.815 people's backyards. They they certainly 01:08:17.839 --> 01:08:20.295 won't be able to reach that. but 01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:22.376 regardless there I realize there are 01:08:22.400 --> 01:08:24.616 very strong personal feelings for and 01:08:24.640 --> 01:08:26.376 against for different reasons which is 01:08:26.400 --> 01:08:28.056 why I would prefer that it remained 01:08:28.080 --> 01:08:29.976 under the delegated authority of staff 01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:33.000 to consider impartially and to if it has 01:08:34.080 --> 01:08:36.456 merit let it happen and let the 01:08:36.480 --> 01:08:39.096 community get what they need rather 01:08:39.120 --> 01:08:42.120 than this political interference come in 01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:43.735 bringing in a whole raft of other 01:08:43.759 --> 01:08:46.695 issues. I would prefer that that didn't 01:08:46.719 --> 01:08:49.416 happen. and that's why I'll be voting 01:08:49.440 --> 01:08:50.775 against this. 01:08:50.799 --> 01:08:53.799 Thank you, Councelor Killian. 01:08:53.920 --> 01:08:56.856 Um look, I think this is precisely the 01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:59.175 sort of circumstance we have our 01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:02.199 professional staff for. Um as councelor 01:09:02.400 --> 01:09:05.335 Tribe said, this is not a matter that we 01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:08.359 should be pushing councilors into 01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.016 political decisions about. It's not a 01:09:11.040 --> 01:09:12.695 political decision. and it needs to be 01:09:12.719 --> 01:09:15.655 done based on the merits. There is 01:09:15.679 --> 01:09:17.815 obviously strong feeling in both 01:09:17.839 --> 01:09:19.976 directions in the community about this. 01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:21.976 There is obviously a need for child 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:23.896 care. I don't think anybody is is 01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:25.335 disagreeing with that, not only in 01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:27.416 Sussex but very much particularly in 01:09:27.440 --> 01:09:30.440 Sussex. So um I think that this is 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:32.056 exactly the sort of thing that we should 01:09:32.080 --> 01:09:34.456 be leaving to staff. let them apply and 01:09:34.480 --> 01:09:37.480 and look as councelor Proudfoot said it 01:09:37.759 --> 01:09:39.735 is likely to go through and it is 01:09:39.759 --> 01:09:42.215 exactly the staff who can are in the 01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:44.215 best position to negotiate these things 01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:46.856 so that the outcome can be as good for 01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:48.616 everyone in the community as possible. 01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:50.695 So I'll be voting against you as well. 01:09:50.719 --> 01:09:53.016 Thank you. Um I'll just go to the CEO 01:09:53.040 --> 01:09:54.616 for as a comment. 01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:57.640 Um yeah just um govern the point just 01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.760 to obviously just rectify the motion. 01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:04.920 So it in essence is the same but um it 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:09.000 should read that DA2026/106 01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:11.816 King Barnes Lane Sussex Inlet for the 01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:13.336 construction of a two-story childcare 01:10:13.360 --> 01:10:15.496 center for 39 children including a 01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:17.256 ground level car park landscaping and 01:10:17.280 --> 01:10:19.736 associated works be called in due to 01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:22.056 considerable public interest. So I just 01:10:22.080 --> 01:10:23.655 remove the words that council move at 01:10:23.679 --> 01:10:26.679 the front and 01:10:26.960 --> 01:10:28.616 so councelor Crownford are you happy 01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:31.640 with that? 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:35.000 Just to for the purposes of the motion, 01:10:35.679 --> 01:10:37.816 rather than the motion read that council 01:10:37.840 --> 01:10:40.456 move, the actual motion should read the 01:10:40.480 --> 01:10:43.256 DA be called in. 01:10:43.280 --> 01:10:45.816 And due to the public interest, 01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:47.896 so everything's still still in it, 01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:50.920 counselor, but 01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:53.336 yeah. 01:10:53.360 --> 01:10:56.360 Yeah, it's just cleaning it up. 01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:59.256 You happy with that, councelor? 01:10:59.280 --> 01:11:02.280 Councelor 01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:03.496 Boyd. Um 01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:05.175 I just wanted to make the comment that 01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:07.976 because the DA tracker is not working 01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.000 for for various reasons, it's been a bit 01:11:11.440 --> 01:11:14.440 difficult to follow this. Um so I don't 01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:16.215 know anything. I mean apart from what 01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:17.576 I've heard here and what I heard from 01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:20.600 the deput last week, um I haven't been 01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:23.016 able to look at it or make any decision 01:11:23.040 --> 01:11:24.936 about it and I assume other people have 01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:27.096 had the same problem. 01:11:27.120 --> 01:11:30.120 Just a comment, I guess. 01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:33.016 you got? 01:11:33.040 --> 01:11:34.296 Yeah. I mean, look, obviously in terms 01:11:34.320 --> 01:11:36.456 of the DA tracker, I'm not sure if 01:11:36.480 --> 01:11:38.695 everybody is aware, but um Cyber New 01:11:38.719 --> 01:11:40.376 South Wales gave a clear instruction 01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:43.096 that it was a system that had the 01:11:43.120 --> 01:11:45.496 potential for cyber attacks. So, a 01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:48.520 number of councils had to pull it 01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:51.496 down. I mean, I don't know whether 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:53.496 director Strauss has anything further 01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:56.296 to add in relation to DA tracker at this 01:11:56.320 --> 01:11:58.376 stage. 01:11:58.400 --> 01:12:00.936 just just that we do have a solution 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:03.960 that we're we're working through um and 01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:06.456 it's probably I believe it's about 8 01:12:06.480 --> 01:12:09.096 weeks off being implemented but yeah we 01:12:09.120 --> 01:12:12.120 had a um we got a caution cautionary 01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:14.536 warning that there was significant risk 01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:17.496 associated with the existing DA tracker 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:20.520 and um cyber risk had to be pulled down. 01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:23.336 Thank you. 01:12:23.360 --> 01:12:25.416 So, councelor Boyd. 01:12:25.440 --> 01:12:27.496 So, I guess my point remains that we 01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:29.496 haven't been able to look at this to 01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.376 make a an opinion about the place about 01:12:32.400 --> 01:12:34.376 I mean, we only have what's in front of 01:12:34.400 --> 01:12:37.096 us and what has been said tonight. Um, 01:12:37.120 --> 01:12:38.616 we haven't been able to look at it 01:12:38.640 --> 01:12:41.096 ourselves. So, 01:12:41.120 --> 01:12:42.856 I don't know how people can vote for 01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:44.936 something they know nothing about. 01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:47.655 Sure. I just clarify that one. So, when 01:12:47.679 --> 01:12:49.896 it was on notification, it was it was 01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:51.736 publicly available. So that's that is 01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:53.496 still going uploaded still available 01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:55.976 through the website. we also are 01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:58.776 publishing weekly the approvals and the 01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:01.576 applications. So you can so there is a 01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:03.096 list on the website 01:13:03.120 --> 01:13:04.776 and I can click on that and have a look 01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:05.336 on it. 01:13:05.360 --> 01:13:07.655 There should yes it should be yes 01:13:07.679 --> 01:13:08.616 that was not 01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:10.135 so there's also all the determinations 01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:11.256 as well. So whenever there's been 01:13:11.280 --> 01:13:12.616 determinations that will be up on the 01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:14.135 website as well. 01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:15.416 Yeah. 01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:17.336 So that's public. 01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:20.056 Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But we 01:13:20.080 --> 01:13:21.816 neither does the public. Everywhere you 01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:22.536 go, people 01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:24.536 can having a discussion between 01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:25.655 ourselves. Thank you. 01:13:25.679 --> 01:13:27.976 Sorry. 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:28.376 Yep. 01:13:28.400 --> 01:13:31.016 It's on the website today. You can look 01:13:31.040 --> 01:13:33.016 at that. The whole application's been 01:13:33.040 --> 01:13:34.456 been there every time I've gone on 01:13:34.480 --> 01:13:35.016 there. 01:13:35.040 --> 01:13:37.016 It has the application. You can see 01:13:37.040 --> 01:13:39.016 exactly what the the design is. You can 01:13:39.040 --> 01:13:39.976 see all the elements. 01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:41.976 I think it hasn't been updated, has it? 01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:44.296 Yeah. Could you just explain, please, 01:13:44.320 --> 01:13:45.976 director? And there has been um 01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:47.336 unfortunately if you haven't seen it but 01:13:47.360 --> 01:13:50.135 there was a media release and I think it 01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:52.456 went out there's been a couple of media 01:13:52.480 --> 01:13:54.296 releases to update the public on this 01:13:54.320 --> 01:13:56.695 one. so there is information on our 01:13:56.719 --> 01:13:59.719 website that also outlines what um can 01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:01.655 be accessed currently. It is a 01:14:01.679 --> 01:14:04.296 workaround so it's not as available 01:14:04.320 --> 01:14:06.135 but you can access through the portal as 01:14:06.159 --> 01:14:08.616 well so that it is accessible. 01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:10.215 Yeah. All right. 01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:13.175 Councelor Kemp, do you have a question 01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:15.016 or you want to speak? A question if I 01:14:15.040 --> 01:14:17.175 may. Um, 01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:20.199 thank you, Madame May. Sandra Gray, um, 01:14:20.480 --> 01:14:23.480 did say 39 places is not enough, but 01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:25.816 she'd be happy if it meets council 01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:28.376 requirements. Can you tell me if it has 01:14:28.400 --> 01:14:31.016 met the council requirements or I know 01:14:31.040 --> 01:14:32.936 it's a broad question, but 01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:35.016 I too haven't seen too much because I've 01:14:35.040 --> 01:14:37.096 had trouble with my laptop. So, 01:14:37.120 --> 01:14:39.016 I'll go to the director. 01:14:39.040 --> 01:14:40.856 Thank you. Yeah, I believe it's still 01:14:40.880 --> 01:14:42.215 under assessment, so it's just been up 01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:44.056 for notification. I can't advise you on 01:14:44.080 --> 01:14:45.256 that. Sorry. 01:14:45.280 --> 01:14:48.280 Okay. And the question on the 148 01:14:49.280 --> 01:14:50.856 petition, can you tell me what that 01:14:50.880 --> 01:14:53.880 petition was about? Was it against it or 01:14:54.480 --> 01:14:57.480 for it or did 01:14:58.320 --> 01:15:00.695 I suppose I can all I can speak to is 01:15:00.719 --> 01:15:03.576 there has been a something that looks 01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:05.416 similar to a petition sent, but we 01:15:05.440 --> 01:15:07.256 haven't actually had a petition 01:15:07.280 --> 01:15:09.976 submitted through um and against our 01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:12.536 policy. So it we have provided advice on 01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:14.056 how that how to go about that. 01:15:14.080 --> 01:15:16.215 Okay. Thank you very much. 01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:17.736 So is there any other speakers or 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:19.336 questions? 01:15:19.360 --> 01:15:22.360 So I'll just add into the debate um on 01:15:22.400 --> 01:15:25.400 this and um I do realize that DA tracker 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:28.135 was not has not been working but I was 01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:29.896 able to look at it before it was shut 01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:32.920 down um on this particular matter. Um I 01:15:33.280 --> 01:15:35.096 originally was going to vote against 01:15:35.120 --> 01:15:37.016 this recommendation 01:15:37.040 --> 01:15:39.976 but I've actually changed my mind. Um, 01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:42.296 and the reason I've changed my mind is 01:15:42.320 --> 01:15:44.536 because it's in the public interest for 01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:47.560 it to come to council. I do know and 01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:49.496 I've been aware and I have been working 01:15:49.520 --> 01:15:51.816 with the Sussex Inlet Business Chamber 01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:54.776 for the last 5 to 6 years to get a new 01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:57.800 preschool built in um in Sussex Inlet. 01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:02.760 And I can contest that I have worked 01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:06.456 with Director Norwood to find a site in 01:16:06.480 --> 01:16:09.480 Sussex Inlet to buy one. Um and as or to 01:16:10.719 --> 01:16:13.719 put some type of preschool facility on 01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:17.560 as this DA came into council, we've also 01:16:17.920 --> 01:16:20.920 found another solution as well. So I 01:16:21.040 --> 01:16:23.655 think in the public interest, it is 01:16:23.679 --> 01:16:26.056 better for a full report to come to 01:16:26.080 --> 01:16:29.080 council. It's not about whether we vote 01:16:29.120 --> 01:16:31.096 for or against and we would have that 01:16:31.120 --> 01:16:33.336 option when the report comes to council, 01:16:33.360 --> 01:16:35.416 but this is about informing the 01:16:35.440 --> 01:16:38.296 community of what the outcome of the 01:16:38.320 --> 01:16:41.320 assessment would be. So both Sandra Gray 01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:44.776 um and councelor Proudfoot have spoken 01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:47.800 about the communities for and against. 01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:49.896 They don't understand the development 01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:52.920 process. They don't understand how we 01:16:53.040 --> 01:16:55.096 get to the conclusion at the end whether 01:16:55.120 --> 01:16:57.655 we whether it's a recommended for 01:16:57.679 --> 01:17:00.376 approval or recommended for refusal. 01:17:00.400 --> 01:17:03.400 That is the staff's decision. But what 01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:06.936 this will do is it will rep will give a 01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:09.736 report back to council on how that 01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:12.616 decision was made. So the general public 01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:14.936 in Sussex Inlet and I think they need to 01:17:14.960 --> 01:17:17.736 know how did council come at this 01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:20.760 decision because what will happen if we 01:17:21.280 --> 01:17:24.056 don't have a public report here the re 01:17:24.080 --> 01:17:26.135 all they will get is the assessment 01:17:26.159 --> 01:17:28.376 report at the end of the day they will 01:17:28.400 --> 01:17:30.456 not have how many people objected how 01:17:30.480 --> 01:17:32.856 many people were for what the community 01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:34.296 thought what the business chamber 01:17:34.320 --> 01:17:36.776 thought what the residents thought how 01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:39.800 they assessed the whole um the whole um 01:17:40.719 --> 01:17:41.655 application 01:17:41.679 --> 01:17:43.976 And as councelor Proudfoot said, you can 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:46.056 get preschools aren't built the way they 01:17:46.080 --> 01:17:48.296 were built years ago. They do have to 01:17:48.320 --> 01:17:50.215 have soundproofing and car parking and 01:17:50.239 --> 01:17:53.096 all of those extra things. So this is I 01:17:53.120 --> 01:17:55.496 see a benefit to the community in the 01:17:55.520 --> 01:17:57.576 public interest for them to understand 01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:00.600 how council actually assists the DA. So 01:18:01.040 --> 01:18:04.040 write a reply, council proudoot. 01:18:05.280 --> 01:18:08.280 And thank you your comments. , I just 01:18:09.440 --> 01:18:11.655 wonder just a quick question to 01:18:11.679 --> 01:18:14.376 Oh, we're in right of reply. 01:18:14.400 --> 01:18:16.376 Well, I was just Okay. Well, I'll make 01:18:16.400 --> 01:18:18.456 it in my R reply. I I would have assumed 01:18:18.480 --> 01:18:20.536 that the council staff would have 01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:23.336 reported this up to council in any case 01:18:23.360 --> 01:18:25.416 because of the number of inquiries 01:18:25.440 --> 01:18:28.440 because of the the the perhaps the 01:18:30.080 --> 01:18:33.080 145 signature petition, the 35 01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:35.256 objections to it and still coming in. 01:18:35.280 --> 01:18:38.280 There may be even more as time goes on. 01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:41.960 as I said before that the residents 01:18:43.679 --> 01:18:45.816 did feel some comfort when I explained 01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:48.840 that that this was fit in the zone that 01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:50.936 actually satisfied the the zoning 01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:52.536 conditions. 01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:54.776 They they didn't particularly like it. 01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:57.800 but they felt some comfort with it. I 01:18:58.719 --> 01:19:01.719 I find it somewhat unusual if not 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:04.056 hypocritical because the number of times 01:19:04.080 --> 01:19:05.736 I've stood up at council over the years 01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:08.760 here and a council law comes in having 01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:10.616 been approached by many members of the 01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:12.456 community and say look can you call that 01:19:12.480 --> 01:19:14.456 DA in 01:19:14.480 --> 01:19:17.336 we don't seem to object to it. So this 01:19:17.360 --> 01:19:19.096 particular one because it's child care 01:19:19.120 --> 01:19:21.896 which which is very very important. I'm 01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:23.976 not trying to stop child care there. I 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:26.215 don't think the residents are either. 01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:27.736 They they just want to feel as though 01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.135 the process is working for them. They 01:19:30.159 --> 01:19:31.976 want to feel as though everything is 01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:33.736 above board. They want to make sure that 01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:36.760 all the the boxes are ticked. It's I 01:19:37.040 --> 01:19:38.135 mean the building itself is a 01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:40.376 magnificent design. And they really have 01:19:40.400 --> 01:19:42.856 taken at this stage. They've taken into 01:19:42.880 --> 01:19:44.616 account the amenity of the people who 01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:47.256 live nearby. They've taken into account 01:19:47.280 --> 01:19:49.016 the the visual amenity. They've taken 01:19:49.040 --> 01:19:51.496 into account the the overshadowing. 01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:53.016 They've taken into account privacy 01:19:53.040 --> 01:19:55.896 issues. and they really have addressed 01:19:55.920 --> 01:19:58.920 pretty well most stuff. But if we call 01:19:59.040 --> 01:20:01.655 it up here and council staff report it 01:20:01.679 --> 01:20:04.679 up, then they get another go at saying, 01:20:04.719 --> 01:20:06.695 "Look, what about that section there? 01:20:06.719 --> 01:20:09.576 May maybe the 1500 mm. Sure, kids can't 01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:11.416 look out that window, but a child care 01:20:11.440 --> 01:20:13.736 worker perhaps could go and look down to 01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:15.416 someone's backyard. Maybe it should be 01:20:15.440 --> 01:20:18.440 1750. these sorts of things can be 01:20:20.400 --> 01:20:22.856 discussed and can be changed. And then 01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:25.016 the community, there's those two famous 01:20:25.040 --> 01:20:27.576 words we all hang our hat on, the the 01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.600 one at Sussex itself, the town center 01:20:31.120 --> 01:20:33.496 and the one at the Gulf Village, can be 01:20:33.520 --> 01:20:35.816 satisfied that the process was an 01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:37.816 honorable one and above board. So I 01:20:37.840 --> 01:20:39.736 don't understand why you we'd even 01:20:39.760 --> 01:20:41.976 contemplate voting as calling the DA in. 01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:43.896 This is part of the democratic process. 01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:46.296 It's not a political process. 01:20:46.320 --> 01:20:48.376 We're just overseeing it as as the the 01:20:48.400 --> 01:20:49.816 leaders of the city. We're overseeing 01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:51.336 the process and there's not a thing 01:20:51.360 --> 01:20:53.256 wrong with it. Madam Chair, thank you. 01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:55.096 Thank you. For those wishing to vote 01:20:55.120 --> 01:20:58.120 for, can we please raise our hands? So, 01:20:58.320 --> 01:21:01.320 councelor So, we're voting for. Well, 01:21:01.679 --> 01:21:04.679 I'll go those wishing to vote against. 01:21:05.360 --> 01:21:07.256 So, councelor tribe votes against. 01:21:07.280 --> 01:21:09.736 Balance votes in um in favor. So, I 01:21:09.760 --> 01:21:12.536 declare that carried. we move on to 01:21:12.560 --> 01:21:15.560 CL 26.42 notice of motion revised policy 01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:17.976 unscheduled curb and guttering works. 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:19.816 Councelor Proudfoot. Do I have a 01:21:19.840 --> 01:21:22.840 seconder? Councelor Norris. 01:21:23.199 --> 01:21:25.016 thank you councel Norris and and 01:21:25.040 --> 01:21:26.856 madam chair. 01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:28.695 Now, this motion was brought to me by 01:21:28.719 --> 01:21:31.719 some people living in Walmer Avenue 01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:34.135 that have attempted to use an old policy 01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:36.695 that was a long-running policy in our 01:21:36.719 --> 01:21:39.496 city where you yourself and a couple of 01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:42.135 neighbors can get together and say we 01:21:42.159 --> 01:21:44.456 we'd like to in inverted commerce 01:21:44.480 --> 01:21:47.016 fund some curb and guttering and there 01:21:47.040 --> 01:21:49.576 was a a deposit policy and investment 01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:52.600 policy and and then some years later um 01:21:53.280 --> 01:21:54.856 certain amount of monies will return to 01:21:54.880 --> 01:21:56.215 those privilege had invested in the curb 01:21:56.239 --> 01:21:59.239 and guttering. Now due to the financial 01:21:59.440 --> 01:22:02.440 constraints of the current council um 01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:05.496 that policy was let lapse and we decided 01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:07.496 not to renew it. And what I'm this 01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:10.215 motion simply asks and and this is borne 01:22:10.239 --> 01:22:11.976 out by the fact that there's very little 01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.376 curb and guttering happens in our city 01:22:14.400 --> 01:22:16.936 by the council. Most was done by 01:22:16.960 --> 01:22:19.960 developers as part of DAS. but very 01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:23.000 little else happens and one could 01:22:24.719 --> 01:22:27.096 well come to the conclusion that often 01:22:27.120 --> 01:22:28.376 the the way that roads are 01:22:28.400 --> 01:22:29.896 deteriorating because there's no curb 01:22:29.920 --> 01:22:32.056 and guttering. The the surface spreads, 01:22:32.080 --> 01:22:33.736 the water undermines the surface and we 01:22:33.760 --> 01:22:35.736 finish up with potholes. And so the more 01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:37.175 curve and guttering, the better our road 01:22:37.199 --> 01:22:40.199 system is should we should we be able to 01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:43.400 afford it. And so the gentleman that 01:22:43.679 --> 01:22:45.736 appro approached me on behalf of his two 01:22:45.760 --> 01:22:48.760 neighbors and I think councelor Cristus 01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:51.976 parents live nearby this particular 01:22:52.000 --> 01:22:55.000 person. Yeah. I didn't want to do you 01:22:55.360 --> 01:22:56.856 in just just in case you wanted to 01:22:56.880 --> 01:22:59.416 declare something. That's all. Um 01:22:59.440 --> 01:23:01.816 they're part of it and I said I'll 01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:03.816 represent you and we'll see if we can't 01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:06.215 get something happening. So I've asked 01:23:06.239 --> 01:23:08.296 staff to the effectively this notice of 01:23:08.320 --> 01:23:10.615 motion asked staff to can we come up 01:23:10.639 --> 01:23:12.695 with perhaps in inverted comm was a less 01:23:12.719 --> 01:23:15.336 generous policy but at least a policy 01:23:15.360 --> 01:23:17.496 where residents are encouraged to talk 01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:19.175 to their neighbors especially in areas 01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:21.976 that need better drainage and they can 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:24.215 make a contribution and we if we can 01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:25.896 work with their people we get more curb 01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:27.816 gathering done. So we could get a come 01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:29.736 up with a win-win situation. It may well 01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:32.135 be that staff say no that's a lot of 01:23:32.159 --> 01:23:34.776 rubbish. We can't afford it. costs too 01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:37.336 much, the costbenefit analysis doesn't 01:23:37.360 --> 01:23:39.655 stack up or whatever staff come up with. 01:23:39.679 --> 01:23:41.256 But it's just simply going back to staff 01:23:41.280 --> 01:23:43.016 saying, can you have another look at it 01:23:43.040 --> 01:23:44.376 and see if we can't get our people 01:23:44.400 --> 01:23:46.456 involved and getting more curb guttering 01:23:46.480 --> 01:23:48.135 happening in the city? It's as simple as 01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:49.736 that. Madam Chair, 01:23:49.760 --> 01:23:52.760 councelor Crystal 01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:55.256 because this is more general. Last one 01:23:55.280 --> 01:23:57.416 was quite specific just just pointing 01:23:57.440 --> 01:23:59.655 that out. Um, this is great. This is 01:23:59.679 --> 01:24:01.416 what we're here for. This is a general 01:24:01.440 --> 01:24:03.096 general process that will make our lives 01:24:03.120 --> 01:24:04.936 better across strategically across the 01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:06.776 board. Let's go. 01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:09.576 Councelor Killian 01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:12.600 is this one. Um I live in a village with 01:24:13.040 --> 01:24:15.576 no curbon guttering anywhere in the 01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:17.976 village and most of the people in our 01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:20.215 village couldn't afford to do it. Some 01:24:20.239 --> 01:24:23.239 could. Um we are 01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:25.256 sorry. Can I just interrupt you? Sorry. 01:24:25.280 --> 01:24:27.175 Councelor Killian. Councelor Wilkins, 01:24:27.199 --> 01:24:28.536 can you come and chair the meeting for a 01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.135 minute? I've just got to take a phone 01:24:30.159 --> 01:24:33.159 call. 01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:50.376 We might just start councelor Killian's 01:24:50.400 --> 01:24:52.776 time again if that's okay. 01:24:52.800 --> 01:24:55.800 councelor Killian. Thank you. Um, 01:24:56.400 --> 01:24:59.175 yeah, look, we have water pouring down 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:00.936 the hills and down the sides of our 01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:02.776 driveways and all over the street and 01:25:02.800 --> 01:25:04.456 running people's gravel into the middle 01:25:04.480 --> 01:25:07.480 of the road. We're a long way off patchy 01:25:07.600 --> 01:25:09.496 bits and pieces of curbon guttering 01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:12.135 helping in our village and I think a lot 01:25:12.159 --> 01:25:14.456 of the area is like that. 01:25:14.480 --> 01:25:17.256 um this just creates a situation where 01:25:17.280 --> 01:25:19.096 the money that is available for curb 01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:20.536 guttering is going to go to the people 01:25:20.560 --> 01:25:23.416 who can afford to contribute to it or 01:25:23.440 --> 01:25:25.096 who have already got enough that it's 01:25:25.120 --> 01:25:26.856 not going to make things even worse by 01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:28.776 putting in patchy little bits and pieces 01:25:28.800 --> 01:25:30.856 that make it run off and then down to 01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:33.416 the next person's property. So, , I I 01:25:33.440 --> 01:25:36.440 I think my guess I I think we can guess 01:25:37.520 --> 01:25:39.175 pretty strongly that the staff are going 01:25:39.199 --> 01:25:42.135 to say this is um going to be too 01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:44.615 expensive and even if it's not too 01:25:44.639 --> 01:25:46.536 expensive, I don't want the money that 01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:49.336 we do have for curb guttering diverted 01:25:49.360 --> 01:25:52.360 to the to the canaves away from the 01:25:52.960 --> 01:25:55.096 other considerations that we might have 01:25:55.120 --> 01:25:58.120 for where we choose to put that on. 01:25:59.199 --> 01:26:01.256 thank you councelor Killian councelor 01:26:01.280 --> 01:26:04.280 Norris. 01:26:06.880 --> 01:26:09.880 Proud to second it. Um we um as many 01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:12.135 people in this chamber will recall my 01:26:12.159 --> 01:26:13.896 one of my first notice of motion was 01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:15.496 actually doing a report into how long it 01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:16.776 would take to curb and gut of the shaw 01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:19.800 haven. Um it was about 400 years if I 01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:22.215 read the report right which is quite a 01:26:22.239 --> 01:26:23.896 long time if we're actually working at 01:26:23.920 --> 01:26:25.976 it solidly. So the idea that we could 01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:27.976 work on a policy that actually lets the 01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:30.615 community who actually want this work on 01:26:30.639 --> 01:26:32.856 a way to get it and to enhance the 01:26:32.880 --> 01:26:35.496 service we offer um you know that's part 01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:37.336 of the reason your roads break up is 01:26:37.360 --> 01:26:38.936 because the water gets under them. So by 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:40.135 having curb and gutter where they 01:26:40.159 --> 01:26:41.816 actually run away you know that's 01:26:41.840 --> 01:26:43.336 actually a way we can actually help the 01:26:43.360 --> 01:26:45.576 the city moving forward. and I do 01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:47.896 take councelor Killian's point that you 01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:49.096 know there are some communities that 01:26:49.120 --> 01:26:50.695 don't have any curb and gutter and don't 01:26:50.719 --> 01:26:53.719 want it for some some um some 01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:56.135 communities. some communities don't 01:26:56.159 --> 01:26:59.016 some communities do. Um but there are 01:26:59.040 --> 01:27:00.695 better ways and so by working on this 01:27:00.719 --> 01:27:02.456 policy I do hope that we can find a way 01:27:02.480 --> 01:27:04.056 forward that we're able to actually 01:27:04.080 --> 01:27:05.816 provide a service for the city that the 01:27:05.840 --> 01:27:08.840 community wants. Thank you 01:27:09.520 --> 01:27:11.896 councelor Kemp. 01:27:11.920 --> 01:27:14.920 , thank you, , Mr. Chair. We said, 01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:18.840 Madame May, um, 01:27:19.280 --> 01:27:21.096 cost. 01:27:21.120 --> 01:27:23.655 What's it going to cost? Um, here we go 01:27:23.679 --> 01:27:26.679 again. Um, is it the only curb and 01:27:27.040 --> 01:27:29.496 guttering in the street that's been 01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:32.456 requested? Does it set a precedent for 01:27:32.480 --> 01:27:34.135 the rest of the street to go, well, they 01:27:34.159 --> 01:27:36.376 paid for theirs. Let's go and pay for 01:27:36.400 --> 01:27:38.936 the others as well. once you pay for one 01:27:38.960 --> 01:27:41.416 person's, aren't you then going to have 01:27:41.440 --> 01:27:44.215 a commitment to the street 01:27:44.239 --> 01:27:46.296 um and all the other people that are 01:27:46.320 --> 01:27:48.695 going to ask for it? Um there's there's 01:27:48.719 --> 01:27:51.719 my concerns. Thanks. 01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.296 Any more speakers? councelor 01:27:54.320 --> 01:27:56.536 Proudoot, right of reply? 01:27:56.560 --> 01:27:59.560 I'll wave that. 01:28:00.400 --> 01:28:02.296 Well, we'll we'll go to the vote. All 01:28:02.320 --> 01:28:04.936 those in favor, put your hands in 01:28:04.960 --> 01:28:07.960 the air. , Councelor Cricstellitis, 01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:11.096 Councelor Norris, Councelor Clancy, 01:28:11.120 --> 01:28:13.736 Councelor Boyd, Councelor Casmiri, 01:28:13.760 --> 01:28:16.215 Councelor Proudfoot, and Councelor 01:28:16.239 --> 01:28:19.239 Wilkins. And those against 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:23.960 , councelor Kemp, Councelor Steel, 01:28:24.159 --> 01:28:27.159 Councelor Tribe, and Councelor Killian. 01:28:28.320 --> 01:28:31.320 That's , carried. 01:28:33.120 --> 01:28:36.120 Thank you. We go to CL 26.43 01:28:37.040 --> 01:28:39.416 notice of motion. Gippers staff time 01:28:39.440 --> 01:28:42.440 referrals to OG court costs and related 01:28:43.199 --> 01:28:46.199 costs. Councelor Kemp. 01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.800 Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um look, I was 01:28:50.080 --> 01:28:52.215 really surprised by the community 01:28:52.239 --> 01:28:54.936 response to this notice emotion. The 01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:57.016 community have expressed to me questions 01:28:57.040 --> 01:28:59.976 about the cost and the use of the 01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:02.856 gippers. The notice of motion is in the 01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:05.416 best interest of financial savings and 01:29:05.440 --> 01:29:08.296 transparency for our community and rate 01:29:08.320 --> 01:29:11.320 payers identifying costs and and origins 01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:16.520 of somehow without imposing on anyone's 01:29:17.840 --> 01:29:20.840 particulars um abiding by the Gippa 01:29:21.280 --> 01:29:24.280 Act 2009 of course will empower the 01:29:24.639 --> 01:29:26.776 councilors to do better to achieve in 01:29:26.800 --> 01:29:29.800 these areas. Um, the GIPA act 2009 01:29:31.360 --> 01:29:33.416 clearly outlines the laws that govern 01:29:33.440 --> 01:29:36.056 the use of public information. In 01:29:36.080 --> 01:29:38.376 relation to number four of this notice 01:29:38.400 --> 01:29:41.016 of motion, how many codes of conducts 01:29:41.040 --> 01:29:44.040 from October 24, the information will 01:29:44.560 --> 01:29:46.215 help us to better understand the 01:29:46.239 --> 01:29:48.296 problems in the interest of financial 01:29:48.320 --> 01:29:51.320 savings. The codes of conduct themselves 01:29:51.760 --> 01:29:54.456 cost thousands of dollars 01:29:54.480 --> 01:29:57.175 in and could go to court costs, legal 01:29:57.199 --> 01:29:59.736 fees, and who is paying for this? Our 01:29:59.760 --> 01:30:01.655 rateayers. 01:30:01.679 --> 01:30:03.976 Our rateayers pay us to represent them 01:30:04.000 --> 01:30:07.000 to use their hard-earned money wisely. 01:30:07.679 --> 01:30:09.736 It is our job to ensure that that 01:30:09.760 --> 01:30:12.760 happens. 01:30:12.800 --> 01:30:14.936 The community are furious citing 01:30:14.960 --> 01:30:17.960 information obtaining from gippers being 01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:21.016 used publicly displayed for use to 01:30:21.040 --> 01:30:23.896 attack people in our community. These 01:30:23.920 --> 01:30:26.056 are individuals gloating about 01:30:26.080 --> 01:30:29.080 recognizing that quote gippers are 01:30:29.360 --> 01:30:32.360 costing the council a lot of money. 01:30:33.120 --> 01:30:35.816 Also quote I have a number of wins and 01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:37.816 I've made it quite clear I'm happy to go 01:30:37.840 --> 01:30:40.840 to ENCAT. it cost them much more than me 01:30:42.159 --> 01:30:45.159 as I represent myself." 01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:48.760 Let's be very clear here. It's costing 01:30:48.880 --> 01:30:51.175 the rateayers, 01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:53.576 not the council. The rateayers are 01:30:53.600 --> 01:30:56.536 paying for this. Like, we took this job 01:30:56.560 --> 01:30:58.776 on to 01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:01.800 find financial savings 01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:03.816 and to make sure that we spend their 01:31:03.840 --> 01:31:06.840 money wisely. 01:31:08.560 --> 01:31:11.175 It's costing the rateayers 01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:14.199 every time a gipper every time there is 01:31:15.120 --> 01:31:17.655 a code of conduct lodged. But there's 01:31:17.679 --> 01:31:19.736 books out there that tells you how to do 01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:22.135 it. Encouragement. 01:31:22.159 --> 01:31:24.056 It's tough. But there's a cost of living 01:31:24.080 --> 01:31:26.536 crisis and I get really angry when 01:31:26.560 --> 01:31:28.695 there's pensioners out there that are 01:31:28.719 --> 01:31:31.175 struggling to get by living with a light 01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:34.199 and not turning their heater on 01:31:35.199 --> 01:31:38.199 just to save some money. All these 01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:41.096 people, our rate payers are paying for 01:31:41.120 --> 01:31:43.416 it, not the council. 01:31:43.440 --> 01:31:46.296 Our community want the roads fixed. We 01:31:46.320 --> 01:31:48.215 need to focus. Our community want the 01:31:48.239 --> 01:31:51.096 cost of living fixed, pension rebates 01:31:51.120 --> 01:31:54.120 fixed. We need to look at costs and the 01:31:54.560 --> 01:31:57.560 use of the information to do better for 01:31:57.600 --> 01:32:00.456 our financial savings for our council to 01:32:00.480 --> 01:32:02.376 manage this. 01:32:02.400 --> 01:32:04.536 Residents and rateayers have every right 01:32:04.560 --> 01:32:07.560 to ask what this is costing them. 01:32:08.639 --> 01:32:11.496 Not the council, them. 01:32:11.520 --> 01:32:14.215 What's the purpose of a GIA? is to 01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:17.239 promote open and accountable transparent 01:32:17.440 --> 01:32:19.976 government by making information 01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:22.615 available. It creates an enforcable 01:32:22.639 --> 01:32:25.639 right to access information, encouraging 01:32:26.480 --> 01:32:28.536 proactive release while restricting 01:32:28.560 --> 01:32:31.175 access only where there's an overriding 01:32:31.199 --> 01:32:34.199 public interest against the disclosure. 01:32:36.080 --> 01:32:38.215 The sheer volume or frequency of 01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:40.856 requests may cause a significant 01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:43.336 unreasonable diversion of agency 01:32:43.360 --> 01:32:46.056 resources hindering their ability to 01:32:46.080 --> 01:32:49.080 function. Is it is having total value? 01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:52.215 Look, a further report in this business 01:32:52.239 --> 01:32:54.135 paper 01:32:54.159 --> 01:32:56.376 on media costs 01:32:56.400 --> 01:32:58.695 requested under a notice of motion has 01:32:58.719 --> 01:33:01.016 been able to shine a focus on 01:33:01.040 --> 01:33:04.040 significant savings just in this media 01:33:04.080 --> 01:33:05.976 area. 01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:07.976 um 01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:11.000 173,000 under the old green um the mayor 01:33:12.080 --> 01:33:15.080 before it's now down to 6,700 in 01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:18.536 media. 01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:21.560 173,000 down to 6,700 savings cuz we 01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:25.175 shine the light on it. 01:33:25.199 --> 01:33:27.416 I'm congratulating the mayor and the CEO 01:33:27.440 --> 01:33:29.816 for all the hard work here. But I need 01:33:29.840 --> 01:33:32.840 to have a look at the cost of the 01:33:32.960 --> 01:33:35.655 gippers, the staff time that we could be 01:33:35.679 --> 01:33:38.615 using towards better, more focused 01:33:38.639 --> 01:33:41.576 things to make savings. 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:43.976 And not just that, it you know, it goes 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:47.000 off to court costs and related costs. 01:33:48.400 --> 01:33:50.215 We need to focus on things we can do 01:33:50.239 --> 01:33:52.456 with that money and and do better. I'm 01:33:52.480 --> 01:33:54.695 not I'm not saying that we should not 01:33:54.719 --> 01:33:56.856 have people gippering. 01:33:56.880 --> 01:33:59.576 That's time. Councelor Kemp. 01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:02.135 Thank you. So, we go to councelor 01:34:02.159 --> 01:34:03.976 Crystal Lightis. 01:34:04.000 --> 01:34:06.056 , thank you. First of all, I think was 01:34:06.080 --> 01:34:07.576 there a second for this? I just I didn't 01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:07.896 see. 01:34:07.920 --> 01:34:08.936 I'm just asking it was 01:34:08.960 --> 01:34:10.456 we needed to clarify a second. 01:34:10.480 --> 01:34:13.336 Yeah. A second for this, please. 01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:15.976 Councelor Steel. 01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:17.096 Continue. Councelor Christ. 01:34:17.120 --> 01:34:18.456 Thank you. I um have an amendment which 01:34:18.480 --> 01:34:19.655 I sent through the governance. So, I'm 01:34:19.679 --> 01:34:21.576 wonder if you could please put that 01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:24.600 up on the screen. 01:34:24.639 --> 01:34:27.639 I'll read it out. 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:31.000 It adds number six. I'd like to um 01:34:31.120 --> 01:34:32.856 propose a full breakdown of the cost of 01:34:32.880 --> 01:34:35.655 the council on the following um oh sorry 01:34:35.679 --> 01:34:37.576 producing this report is on the 01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:40.376 following including resources staff 01:34:40.400 --> 01:34:41.976 hours and equation of the dollar cost 01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:44.456 preparation photocopies etc and other 01:34:44.480 --> 01:34:47.480 associated costs. if that could be 01:34:48.159 --> 01:34:50.135 accepted I guess 01:34:50.159 --> 01:34:51.496 and when it's not I'd like to speak on 01:34:51.520 --> 01:34:51.816 it. 01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:54.056 So councelor Kemp are you going are you 01:34:54.080 --> 01:34:57.080 happy to accept that? 01:34:57.520 --> 01:35:00.520 What's changed from my original? 01:35:01.280 --> 01:35:04.280 Um, it's added number six. 01:35:09.120 --> 01:35:11.175 So, I just asked how much this report on 01:35:11.199 --> 01:35:13.175 Gippers is going to cost. 01:35:13.199 --> 01:35:15.175 Okay. Can I just to clarify councelor 01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:18.199 Kemp just read out 6 the amendment 01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:21.416 that's being put forward by council 01:35:21.440 --> 01:35:23.896 Chris Ladis. provide council with a 01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:25.576 full breakdown of the cost to council of 01:35:25.600 --> 01:35:28.056 producing this report on the following A 01:35:28.080 --> 01:35:31.080 resources staff hours and equation of 01:35:31.120 --> 01:35:34.120 dollar cost B preparation C photo copies 01:35:35.120 --> 01:35:38.120 etc D other associated costs 01:35:38.960 --> 01:35:41.960 so it's asking for this report 01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:45.976 yes 01:35:46.000 --> 01:35:49.000 yeah I'll accept that 01:35:50.719 --> 01:35:52.215 so it's been accepted council 01:35:52.239 --> 01:35:53.896 Krikstolaitis, do you wish to speak? 01:35:53.920 --> 01:35:56.376 Councelor Steel, do you accept it? Okay. 01:35:56.400 --> 01:35:57.976 So, councelor Crystalitis, do you want 01:35:58.000 --> 01:35:59.096 to speak to it, please? 01:35:59.120 --> 01:36:02.120 Wonderful. Thank you. Yeah. So, um that 01:36:02.639 --> 01:36:04.135 did not go the way I expected. That's 01:36:04.159 --> 01:36:07.159 great. So, um I'm ironically even with 01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:10.760 the amendment that I'm I'm still 01:36:12.159 --> 01:36:13.655 severely worried about this report 01:36:13.679 --> 01:36:15.896 because it risked some serious 01:36:15.920 --> 01:36:18.920 questions. Um because it's just a report 01:36:19.360 --> 01:36:22.360 about it's just a report about about 01:36:22.639 --> 01:36:24.856 how much gippers and things cost. It 01:36:24.880 --> 01:36:26.536 it's not asking to change anything. It's 01:36:26.560 --> 01:36:29.336 just a report back to us. So noting that 01:36:29.360 --> 01:36:31.576 all of this is dictated by the New South 01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:34.456 Wales government acts anyway. 01:36:34.480 --> 01:36:36.615 What's the purpose of it? We can't 01:36:36.639 --> 01:36:38.215 change anything. We can't then go ahead 01:36:38.239 --> 01:36:39.336 and say, "Hey, you've got all this 01:36:39.360 --> 01:36:42.135 money." So, I'm trying to I spent a good 01:36:42.159 --> 01:36:43.496 couple of weeks since this came out 01:36:43.520 --> 01:36:46.215 trying to figure out a reason for this 01:36:46.239 --> 01:36:49.239 report completely. Um, 01:36:58.159 --> 01:37:01.159 councelor 01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:04.520 tribe. That was not appropriate. 01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:08.856 It doesn't matter who she's laughing at. 01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:11.880 It is not appropriate. 01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:13.655 All right. So, I think you should go 01:37:13.679 --> 01:37:15.736 outside and apologize to councelor Kemp 01:37:15.760 --> 01:37:17.256 and we'll wait. I'll suspend the 01:37:17.280 --> 01:37:20.280 meeting. Um, so 01:37:24.480 --> 01:37:26.776 well I'm I'm suspending the meeting so 01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:29.800 you can think about your actions and you 01:37:30.080 --> 01:37:32.776 owe in my opinion as a chair an apology 01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:35.095 to councelor Kemp because she thought 01:37:35.119 --> 01:37:37.256 you were laughing at her. So you can 01:37:37.280 --> 01:37:40.280 apologize to councelor Kemp and council 01:37:40.960 --> 01:37:43.816 sorry councelor Kemp we're not having an 01:37:43.840 --> 01:37:45.416 argument so I'm suspending the meeting 01:37:45.440 --> 01:37:48.215 for 5 minutes while we consider what's 01:37:48.239 --> 01:37:51.239 going to happen. 01:37:53.280 --> 01:37:56.135 So councelor tribe in relation to 01:37:56.159 --> 01:37:59.159 section 15.10 10 of the meeting code of 01:37:59.600 --> 01:38:02.600 practice. I believe that you have 01:38:02.639 --> 01:38:05.016 brought um have been inconsistent in 01:38:05.040 --> 01:38:06.776 this meeting by laughing in the meeting 01:38:06.800 --> 01:38:08.536 and laughing at counselors. Doesn't 01:38:08.560 --> 01:38:11.095 matter which counselor. Um so I'm 01:38:11.119 --> 01:38:14.119 ordering you to make an unreserved 01:38:14.480 --> 01:38:17.095 apology to both counselor Krikstolaitis 01:38:17.119 --> 01:38:20.119 or council and councelor Kemp. 01:38:20.880 --> 01:38:22.536 Thank you madame mayor. I have directly 01:38:22.560 --> 01:38:25.016 apologized to councelor Krikstolaitis who 01:38:25.040 --> 01:38:26.695 I was Thank you. I'm getting to that. 01:38:26.719 --> 01:38:29.256 who I would who I was laughing with. He 01:38:29.280 --> 01:38:31.016 was also laughing which set a number of 01:38:31.040 --> 01:38:33.736 us off and I have apologized to him for 01:38:33.760 --> 01:38:36.536 that. I apologize if anyone else felt as 01:38:36.560 --> 01:38:39.416 though I was laughing at them but I was 01:38:39.440 --> 01:38:41.496 very clearly laughing at councelor Cooks 01:38:41.520 --> 01:38:43.256 who was speaking and who I was talking 01:38:43.280 --> 01:38:44.056 to. 01:38:44.080 --> 01:38:47.080 So council tribe I have asked you to 01:38:47.199 --> 01:38:50.056 apologize to councelor Kemp 01:38:50.080 --> 01:38:52.536 and I also apologize to councelor Kemp 01:38:52.560 --> 01:38:54.056 who incorrectly thought that I was 01:38:54.080 --> 01:38:56.536 laughing at her. Thank you. So I'm 01:38:56.560 --> 01:38:59.095 giving you a warning council tribe. The 01:38:59.119 --> 01:39:01.016 next time I will expel you from the 01:39:01.040 --> 01:39:04.040 meeting. 01:39:04.480 --> 01:39:06.215 Say that 01:39:06.239 --> 01:39:07.496 judge. 01:39:07.520 --> 01:39:09.416 She's apologized. Councelor Kemp, 01:39:09.440 --> 01:39:11.416 councelor Kemp, she's apologized. If 01:39:11.440 --> 01:39:13.336 there's any more behavior, I will ask 01:39:13.360 --> 01:39:16.135 her. I'll expel it from the meeting. 01:39:16.159 --> 01:39:18.135 Right. Councelor Crystal, you can 01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:20.135 continue. 01:39:20.159 --> 01:39:22.296 And um 01:39:22.320 --> 01:39:25.256 yeah I I also apologize to the entire 01:39:25.280 --> 01:39:26.936 chamber for laughing. As I said, they 01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:28.536 didn't go the way I expected and I 01:39:28.560 --> 01:39:31.336 was caught by surprise. the um but 01:39:31.360 --> 01:39:34.360 however the as I was saying the the 01:39:34.400 --> 01:39:36.456 question still arise what's the the the 01:39:36.480 --> 01:39:39.480 purpose of the report um because I 01:39:40.480 --> 01:39:42.536 there's literally nothing we can change 01:39:42.560 --> 01:39:44.615 the there's nothing at the end of this 01:39:44.639 --> 01:39:47.639 we receive a report and um the question 01:39:47.920 --> 01:39:49.736 the only conclusion I can come came to 01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:52.760 over those couple of weeks was um that 01:39:53.040 --> 01:39:55.496 we'll be trying to ask people to not 01:39:55.520 --> 01:39:58.520 create gippers or as fois I used to as 01:39:58.719 --> 01:40:00.695 they used to be known And the idea being 01:40:00.719 --> 01:40:03.416 that the whole of of what we say and 01:40:03.440 --> 01:40:04.615 what we've done and all of us have said 01:40:04.639 --> 01:40:07.175 this at at some point is that 01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:09.655 transparency is a must. 01:40:09.679 --> 01:40:11.496 And so if people's ask people are asking 01:40:11.520 --> 01:40:14.215 for information um and we're allowed to 01:40:14.239 --> 01:40:15.976 give it under confidentiality laws and 01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:17.976 privacy laws then there's absolutely no 01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:20.856 reason for these people not to ask. Um, 01:40:20.880 --> 01:40:23.016 and the next point I I that kept echoing 01:40:23.040 --> 01:40:24.376 through my mind, especially after the 01:40:24.400 --> 01:40:27.400 the deputation, um, was, 01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:29.976 well, we've got big brother watching 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:31.336 and, , are we really going to put 01:40:31.360 --> 01:40:33.416 ourselves in a position where we look 01:40:33.440 --> 01:40:36.440 like we're, , hiding things or trying 01:40:36.880 --> 01:40:39.175 to take control of the Gipper process 01:40:39.199 --> 01:40:41.896 that is legisl legisl 01:40:41.920 --> 01:40:44.215 are just terrible for that. So in 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:47.239 summary, it's another another 01:40:48.320 --> 01:40:50.215 report, another expensive report on 01:40:50.239 --> 01:40:52.856 for staff that are already stretched and 01:40:52.880 --> 01:40:55.880 in the end to absolutely no avail. 01:40:56.320 --> 01:40:58.135 Thank you. 01:40:58.159 --> 01:41:01.159 council tribe. 01:41:01.440 --> 01:41:01.655 Yeah. 01:41:01.679 --> 01:41:03.736 thank you, Madame Mayor. As noted, 01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:05.736 this information has already been 01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:07.976 publicly provided, but to try and find 01:41:08.000 --> 01:41:11.000 out further specifics, , confidential 01:41:11.040 --> 01:41:13.736 specifics does feel to me like a witch 01:41:13.760 --> 01:41:16.215 hunt. And quite frankly, I I think this 01:41:16.239 --> 01:41:18.695 council has more significant concerns to 01:41:18.719 --> 01:41:21.576 worry about with the PI PIO and the 01:41:21.600 --> 01:41:24.600 section 430 investigation. and quite 01:41:24.639 --> 01:41:27.639 frankly to cut any corners to reduce 01:41:28.239 --> 01:41:31.016 any transparency would be 01:41:31.040 --> 01:41:32.695 extremely worrying I'm sure to those 01:41:32.719 --> 01:41:34.856 state very same state investigators as 01:41:34.880 --> 01:41:37.336 well. So transparency and compliance 01:41:37.360 --> 01:41:40.215 does have a price tag but it's not one 01:41:40.239 --> 01:41:43.239 that we can cut corners on. Councelor 01:41:43.360 --> 01:41:45.016 Killian. 01:41:45.040 --> 01:41:48.040 Madame Mayor, um I think that this is an 01:41:48.480 --> 01:41:51.480 expensive exercise in trying to change a 01:41:53.600 --> 01:41:55.175 process that we don't have any power to 01:41:55.199 --> 01:41:58.199 change. So we already get reports on it. 01:41:58.320 --> 01:42:01.256 We know what the process has to be. We 01:42:01.280 --> 01:42:03.336 may be uncomfortable sometimes by the 01:42:03.360 --> 01:42:06.360 givers we get. That's the point of them. 01:42:06.639 --> 01:42:09.496 They are set up at a system that's 01:42:09.520 --> 01:42:12.520 separate to us and requires us to follow 01:42:12.880 --> 01:42:15.880 very precise process and it puts us 01:42:16.000 --> 01:42:18.056 under the microscope and sometimes it's 01:42:18.080 --> 01:42:20.296 not great to be under the microscope. We 01:42:20.320 --> 01:42:22.856 may feel put upon. We may feel like it's 01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:24.776 costing us a lot of money but there is 01:42:24.800 --> 01:42:27.336 nothing that we can do about it. Our 01:42:27.360 --> 01:42:30.135 staff follow the processes properly. We 01:42:30.159 --> 01:42:32.376 won't save money by spending money 01:42:32.400 --> 01:42:35.016 having staff run around and give us 01:42:35.040 --> 01:42:36.936 extra information when we already have 01:42:36.960 --> 01:42:39.816 the information that we need. I think 01:42:39.840 --> 01:42:42.376 this request for this report follows a 01:42:42.400 --> 01:42:44.056 bit of a pattern. You know, we quite 01:42:44.080 --> 01:42:45.816 often since I've been in the chamber, 01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:47.896 there have been a number of times where 01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:50.920 we are asking staff to report on things 01:42:50.960 --> 01:42:53.336 that either we already know or where 01:42:53.360 --> 01:42:56.360 we're looking for a problem that we 01:42:56.639 --> 01:42:59.336 think we want to focus on and we think 01:42:59.360 --> 01:43:02.360 we want to make a difficulty out of. And 01:43:02.639 --> 01:43:04.456 and I'm not sure whether that's what 01:43:04.480 --> 01:43:06.936 this is. I it looks like it from looking 01:43:06.960 --> 01:43:09.960 at how many each asks. Look, 01:43:12.080 --> 01:43:15.080 let's just step up, answer our differer 01:43:15.920 --> 01:43:18.920 inquiries, and declare our transparency. 01:43:19.440 --> 01:43:22.440 I've said before, I said it about about 01:43:22.480 --> 01:43:24.135 the Office of Local Government looking 01:43:24.159 --> 01:43:27.095 at us. We want to be transparent, and we 01:43:27.119 --> 01:43:29.095 want to be seen to be transparent. So 01:43:29.119 --> 01:43:31.256 let's not run around wasting money 01:43:31.280 --> 01:43:33.336 asking staff to give us reports on 01:43:33.360 --> 01:43:36.296 things that are not going to help and as 01:43:36.320 --> 01:43:38.695 councelor Tribe said are not gerine to 01:43:38.719 --> 01:43:41.016 the business that we really need to get 01:43:41.040 --> 01:43:44.040 done and I will refer later I wasn't 01:43:44.880 --> 01:43:46.456 going to pull it out but I will refer 01:43:46.480 --> 01:43:49.480 later to the reference to a different 01:43:50.080 --> 01:43:53.080 the media report um which I think 01:43:53.119 --> 01:43:54.776 probably isn't appropriate to answer 01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:57.800 under this this item 01:43:58.080 --> 01:43:59.736 there Is there any other speakers for or 01:43:59.760 --> 01:44:02.760 against council 01:44:06.159 --> 01:44:09.159 this motion? Um, as much as applicants 01:44:09.199 --> 01:44:11.416 have a right to ask questions, rate 01:44:11.440 --> 01:44:13.496 payers have a right to know why their 01:44:13.520 --> 01:44:16.456 money is being spent and it is a cost 01:44:16.480 --> 01:44:19.256 that's being incurred by the rate payers 01:44:19.280 --> 01:44:20.776 and 01:44:20.800 --> 01:44:23.736 um in l transparency I think that they 01:44:23.760 --> 01:44:26.760 have a right to um to have this revealed 01:44:27.280 --> 01:44:28.695 to them. 01:44:28.719 --> 01:44:30.615 So, they're paying for it. They have a 01:44:30.639 --> 01:44:32.776 right to it. 01:44:32.800 --> 01:44:35.175 Thank you, Councelor Wilkins. 01:44:35.199 --> 01:44:37.416 Thanks, Madame Mayor. I must confess to 01:44:37.440 --> 01:44:39.736 being a little ambivalent about this 01:44:39.760 --> 01:44:42.760 motion with its various tentacles, 01:44:43.199 --> 01:44:46.199 but I do think transparency is is a 01:44:46.239 --> 01:44:48.856 two-way street. it goes both ways. 01:44:48.880 --> 01:44:50.615 We're asked to be transparent. So, 01:44:50.639 --> 01:44:52.215 what's wrong with a little bit of 01:44:52.239 --> 01:44:54.536 transparency from the other side? We're 01:44:54.560 --> 01:44:56.776 not alone here, by the way. I just did 01:44:56.800 --> 01:44:59.800 some statistics and u in 2023 24 there 01:45:01.840 --> 01:45:04.456 were 27,485 01:45:04.480 --> 01:45:06.456 information requests across New South 01:45:06.480 --> 01:45:09.336 Wales most of those from the councils. 01:45:09.360 --> 01:45:12.360 that was up 12% on the previous year. 01:45:12.960 --> 01:45:15.655 Now I'm not sure um about the figures 01:45:15.679 --> 01:45:17.095 this year or whether they've been out 01:45:17.119 --> 01:45:20.119 for 20 24 25. They they probably 01:45:21.199 --> 01:45:23.736 have just about to be released but you'd 01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:25.095 have to say there'd be an increase 01:45:25.119 --> 01:45:27.496 there. So, , so what's wrong with 01:45:27.520 --> 01:45:30.056 knowing u where they come from? But it's 01:45:30.080 --> 01:45:33.080 across the board, too. Um, 01:45:33.600 --> 01:45:36.135 you can make an an assessment, , and 01:45:36.159 --> 01:45:38.135 and find out where the where the 01:45:38.159 --> 01:45:41.159 problems lie. Um, 01:45:41.679 --> 01:45:43.496 because it's in the public interest both 01:45:43.520 --> 01:45:45.256 ways, , to know. We want to be open 01:45:45.280 --> 01:45:48.215 and transparent and, , and accountable 01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:50.856 and, um, and I think it's all part of 01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:53.736 the equation. Natural curiosity. 01:45:53.760 --> 01:45:56.760 um as I said and and accountability um 01:45:57.040 --> 01:45:59.256 would probably lead me to to support 01:45:59.280 --> 01:46:02.056 this motion. Um but as I say, we're not 01:46:02.080 --> 01:46:05.080 alone. Um and with cost shifting, 01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:08.376 maybe the whole system needs to be 01:46:08.400 --> 01:46:10.456 needs to be re-evaluated because if 01:46:10.480 --> 01:46:12.376 there's going to be an average of 12% 01:46:12.400 --> 01:46:14.776 increase per year in the number of 01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:17.800 GPA applications, then that's a 01:46:18.159 --> 01:46:19.655 that's a whole different street we're 01:46:19.679 --> 01:46:21.256 going down and every council will be 01:46:21.280 --> 01:46:23.655 faced with the same problem. Thank you. 01:46:23.679 --> 01:46:25.736 Thank you. Is there any other speakers? 01:46:25.760 --> 01:46:27.896 So, I'd like to propose a an amendment 01:46:27.920 --> 01:46:30.920 which is a part seven 01:46:31.280 --> 01:46:34.280 that um to this um Gipper that for the 01:46:35.199 --> 01:46:37.256 LG New South Wales annual conference 01:46:37.280 --> 01:46:39.416 that will be held in November, the 01:46:39.440 --> 01:46:42.296 council put a notice of motion up to 01:46:42.320 --> 01:46:45.320 that conference to request the state 01:46:46.080 --> 01:46:49.080 government to increase the cost for g 01:46:49.119 --> 01:46:52.119 for gippers. Gippers currently cost $20 01:46:52.639 --> 01:46:55.639 to put them in. Sorry, $30 to put those 01:46:56.400 --> 01:46:59.400 in. That has not changed since 2009. 01:47:00.880 --> 01:47:03.576 So from 2009, people only have to pay 01:47:03.600 --> 01:47:06.456 $30. The staff time, expenses, etc., 01:47:06.480 --> 01:47:09.416 which is why this report is being called 01:47:09.440 --> 01:47:11.976 um needs to be addressed and this 01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:13.896 information will help us with an 01:47:13.920 --> 01:47:15.976 notice of motion to that conference. 01:47:16.000 --> 01:47:17.896 Councelor Kemp, are you happy to accept 01:47:17.920 --> 01:47:20.920 that? Councelor Steel. 01:47:22.080 --> 01:47:24.536 So, I'll now speak to the whole um 01:47:24.560 --> 01:47:27.256 recommendation. I heard all of this. 01:47:27.280 --> 01:47:29.496 It's about transparency. 01:47:29.520 --> 01:47:31.896 This council has made some very brave 01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:34.536 moves while we've been elected. If we 01:47:34.560 --> 01:47:37.560 not we we did not ask for the reports on 01:47:37.760 --> 01:47:40.760 the fleet management of the council. We 01:47:40.960 --> 01:47:43.960 wouldn't have saved over $700,000. 01:47:44.080 --> 01:47:45.976 We've now asked for a report on the 01:47:46.000 --> 01:47:48.776 media and you can see the substantial 01:47:48.800 --> 01:47:51.800 savings that we can make. It's not about 01:47:51.920 --> 01:47:54.056 who said what, who put the gipper in, 01:47:54.080 --> 01:47:55.736 where did it come from or anything like 01:47:55.760 --> 01:47:58.056 that. It's about can we improve our 01:47:58.080 --> 01:48:01.080 processes. And to improve processes, you 01:48:01.199 --> 01:48:02.776 need to know what you're looking at in 01:48:02.800 --> 01:48:04.856 the first place. So, I'll be supporting 01:48:04.880 --> 01:48:07.880 this recommendation. Um, and I look 01:48:08.159 --> 01:48:09.976 forward to reading about it tomorrow, 01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:11.976 but I'm supporting it because if we 01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:13.816 don't know what it's costing us, how can 01:48:13.840 --> 01:48:16.376 we move forward and how can we ask the 01:48:16.400 --> 01:48:19.175 state government to make change on the 01:48:19.199 --> 01:48:21.655 processes if we don't even know what the 01:48:21.679 --> 01:48:24.679 processes are as a council. So, um, I'll 01:48:25.280 --> 01:48:28.280 go back to write a reply. Council Kemp, 01:48:28.960 --> 01:48:31.960 thank you, Madame May. Um, yeah, I fully 01:48:32.400 --> 01:48:35.400 support your amendment there on $30 an 01:48:35.520 --> 01:48:37.256 hour. Um, and that's been like that 01:48:37.280 --> 01:48:39.095 since 2009. 01:48:39.119 --> 01:48:42.119 Um, 01:48:42.480 --> 01:48:45.480 in response to council council and under 01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:47.256 the microscope. Yes, it is under the 01:48:47.280 --> 01:48:48.776 microscope. 01:48:48.800 --> 01:48:51.655 That's what the the community is asking. 01:48:51.679 --> 01:48:53.416 They're asking where the money's going. 01:48:53.440 --> 01:48:55.736 Why is this costing so much? And that's 01:48:55.760 --> 01:48:58.760 our job as counselors to be able to go, 01:48:59.040 --> 01:49:00.695 we're going to ask that question for 01:49:00.719 --> 01:49:03.496 you. We're going to find out why the 01:49:03.520 --> 01:49:05.736 gippers are increasing. We understand 01:49:05.760 --> 01:49:07.655 that everybody's got a right to gipper, 01:49:07.679 --> 01:49:10.679 but it's what they do with that gipper 01:49:11.040 --> 01:49:14.040 or their intention of the gipper is is 01:49:14.480 --> 01:49:16.695 meant to be for building whatever that 01:49:16.719 --> 01:49:19.719 the reason, but it's when they what they 01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:23.000 do with that gipper is a decision. 01:49:23.920 --> 01:49:25.736 Okay? So, it's under the microscope 01:49:25.760 --> 01:49:28.296 that's great. That's what the community 01:49:28.320 --> 01:49:30.536 wants. 01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:33.560 A quick search on Google on Gibbers 01:49:34.719 --> 01:49:37.719 from 2013 to 2014. This was all public 01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.080 on Google. There was 32 formal, 272 01:49:42.480 --> 01:49:44.296 informal. 01:49:44.320 --> 01:49:47.320 2014 2015, there was 34 formal, 275 01:49:49.360 --> 01:49:50.936 informal. 01:49:50.960 --> 01:49:53.736 2015 to 2016, 01:49:53.760 --> 01:49:56.760 34 formal, 336 informal. 01:49:58.159 --> 01:50:01.095 2017 2018 01:50:01.119 --> 01:50:03.816 22 01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:06.840 formal 357 informal we're going up there 01:50:08.719 --> 01:50:11.719 is a rise who just said that the 01:50:12.320 --> 01:50:14.296 gipper applications are going up thank 01:50:14.320 --> 01:50:16.776 you councelor Wilkins that's true and 01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:18.615 they're going up phenomenally in the 01:50:18.639 --> 01:50:20.376 last year 01:50:20.400 --> 01:50:22.296 I want to know why they're going up if 01:50:22.320 --> 01:50:25.320 we got a problem um it's not about what 01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:28.615 the the gip is about It's not what it's 01:50:28.639 --> 01:50:31.416 about. It's about cost savings. 01:50:31.440 --> 01:50:34.440 And as I said, the media alone 01:50:35.679 --> 01:50:38.679 coming down from 173,000 to 6,900 01:50:41.840 --> 01:50:43.576 6,700 01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:45.336 in media. That's because we shine the 01:50:45.360 --> 01:50:47.576 light on it. We're shining the light on 01:50:47.600 --> 01:50:50.600 this for transparency. The gippers like 01:50:51.360 --> 01:50:53.256 not to mention I I feel sorry for the 01:50:53.280 --> 01:50:55.175 staff. It's a lot of work. they should 01:50:55.199 --> 01:50:57.336 be doing other things or they could be 01:50:57.360 --> 01:51:00.360 doing other things. 01:51:01.440 --> 01:51:04.440 So, I'm of the 01:51:06.320 --> 01:51:09.320 I'm also happy with the the change that 01:51:10.880 --> 01:51:13.880 councelor Cricalis put in 01:51:14.320 --> 01:51:17.095 um because it's transparency. Why is it 01:51:17.119 --> 01:51:19.336 something to be laughed at or it's 01:51:19.360 --> 01:51:21.256 transparency? I don't care what the the 01:51:21.280 --> 01:51:23.655 cost should be available to the public 01:51:23.679 --> 01:51:25.496 just as much as the gipper information 01:51:25.520 --> 01:51:27.016 is. 01:51:27.040 --> 01:51:28.776 So, I'm happy with all those amendments 01:51:28.800 --> 01:51:31.016 and I'm hoping that everybody else is 01:51:31.040 --> 01:51:33.256 and that we get some light on this how 01:51:33.280 --> 01:51:35.576 much this is costing us and maybe we can 01:51:35.600 --> 01:51:37.575 do better here for the community. Thank 01:51:37.599 --> 01:51:40.599 you. Thank you. So I'll put the 01:51:40.719 --> 01:51:42.856 recommendation those vote with the 01:51:42.880 --> 01:51:45.880 amendments those voting for councelor 01:51:46.320 --> 01:51:49.320 Norris councelor sorry councelor 01:51:50.159 --> 01:51:53.159 clansancy councel casmary councelor 01:51:53.840 --> 01:51:56.056 Wilkins councelor 01:51:56.080 --> 01:51:59.080 steel councelor Kemp councel white 01:52:00.080 --> 01:52:03.080 those against councelor crystaladis 01:52:03.920 --> 01:52:06.695 councelor boyd councelor Kian councelor 01:52:06.719 --> 01:52:09.719 proudfoot councel tribe Council done. 01:52:10.080 --> 01:52:13.080 Oh, councelor Dunn, you're against. Yep. 01:52:14.480 --> 01:52:16.695 Against. So, what does that give me on 01:52:16.719 --> 01:52:19.719 numbers? 01:52:21.280 --> 01:52:24.280 Two, three, four, five, six. One, two, 01:52:25.599 --> 01:52:27.816 three, four, five, six, seven. It's 01:52:27.840 --> 01:52:30.215 carried. It's carried. 01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:32.215 Have we got Have we got it right on the 01:52:32.239 --> 01:52:35.239 screen? 01:52:37.520 --> 01:52:40.520 four 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 01:52:43.840 --> 01:52:46.840 So it's carried. Thank you. Now we'll 01:52:46.960 --> 01:52:49.960 move on to the next one which is CL 01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.936 26.44 01:52:52.960 --> 01:52:55.256 notice of motion creation of big spotty 01:52:55.280 --> 01:52:57.575 flora reserve. Council Killian. Do I 01:52:57.599 --> 01:53:00.599 have a seconder? Councelor Boyd, 01:53:06.400 --> 01:53:07.816 is it okay if I still sit? 01:53:07.840 --> 01:53:09.896 Yeah. Yeah, fine. 01:53:09.920 --> 01:53:12.135 Tonight, I'm bringing I'm bringing this 01:53:12.159 --> 01:53:14.615 motion urging the councilors to assist 01:53:14.639 --> 01:53:17.639 in protecting a really remarkable tree 01:53:17.760 --> 01:53:20.056 located in a remarkable forest that we 01:53:20.080 --> 01:53:22.056 have in our southern area, the North 01:53:22.080 --> 01:53:25.080 Broomman forest. Big's body is 71 m tall 01:53:25.920 --> 01:53:28.920 and 12 m around its trunk. Can I have 01:53:28.960 --> 01:53:31.960 those pictures up? 01:53:32.480 --> 01:53:34.936 As big as you can. I've got a few 01:53:34.960 --> 01:53:37.175 pictures of Spotty here and and one 01:53:37.199 --> 01:53:40.199 of something else. Um it's it's thought 01:53:42.080 --> 01:53:44.456 to be it's believed to be the tallest 01:53:44.480 --> 01:53:47.256 spotted gum on earth. It's about 500 01:53:47.280 --> 01:53:49.976 years old or over 500 years old. So what 01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:51.976 was happening in the 1520s? Ferdin and 01:53:52.000 --> 01:53:53.976 Mellin was circumnavigating the earth 01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:56.056 for the first time and this tree was a 01:53:56.080 --> 01:53:58.376 sapling. In Europe, the Protestant 01:53:58.400 --> 01:54:00.296 Reformation was gaining momentum and 01:54:00.320 --> 01:54:02.856 Martin Luther King was excommunicated. 01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:05.496 Big things happening in that those 1520s 01:54:05.520 --> 01:54:08.056 and this tree was just starting out 01:54:08.080 --> 01:54:10.936 amidst a forest probably of trees that 01:54:10.960 --> 01:54:13.960 were just as big as it is now. Now, 01:54:16.400 --> 01:54:18.135 European settlement wasn't even a 01:54:18.159 --> 01:54:21.159 glimmer in anybody's eye at that time. 01:54:21.760 --> 01:54:24.760 And we have this in our backyard. 01:54:25.520 --> 01:54:28.520 The tree is in an area is in a forest 01:54:28.719 --> 01:54:30.856 that is being logged by New South Wales 01:54:30.880 --> 01:54:33.496 Forestry Commission. 01:54:33.520 --> 01:54:36.296 And although this tree has a protection 01:54:36.320 --> 01:54:39.320 zone of 60 m around it, remember I said 01:54:39.360 --> 01:54:42.360 it's 71 m tall and 12 m around. So a 60 01:54:43.840 --> 01:54:46.840 m protection zone, a buffer zone is not 01:54:47.280 --> 01:54:50.280 enough for this tree anyway. A tree like 01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:52.376 this require Can I have the next 01:54:52.400 --> 01:54:54.376 picture, please? A tree like this 01:54:54.400 --> 01:54:57.400 requires the other trees around it to 01:54:58.800 --> 01:55:00.296 that one. I've got a person in the 01:55:00.320 --> 01:55:01.976 bottom of it. That person in the green 01:55:02.000 --> 01:55:04.615 shirt just to show you a bit of scale. 01:55:04.639 --> 01:55:06.615 Um, 01:55:06.639 --> 01:55:09.639 this this tree needs its surrounding 01:55:11.040 --> 01:55:13.736 trees to protect it from wind, to make 01:55:13.760 --> 01:55:16.760 sure the soil balance is okay, to um 01:55:17.920 --> 01:55:20.615 ensure that 01:55:20.639 --> 01:55:22.456 um 01:55:22.480 --> 01:55:24.776 that that it is not over affected by 01:55:24.800 --> 01:55:27.800 heat and to keep the biodiversity in its 01:55:27.840 --> 01:55:30.135 environment going. So, here's a 01:55:30.159 --> 01:55:32.615 remarkable forest. 01:55:32.639 --> 01:55:35.639 The residents who live near Big Spotty 01:55:36.719 --> 01:55:39.719 have been told that compartment 41A will 01:55:40.000 --> 01:55:43.000 start being logged in May this year. 01:55:44.719 --> 01:55:47.416 This is in spite of the fact that the 01:55:47.440 --> 01:55:49.736 federal government have just changed its 01:55:49.760 --> 01:55:51.816 environmental protection legislation to 01:55:51.840 --> 01:55:54.840 include the end of native forest logging 01:55:55.119 --> 01:55:57.256 in the across the country. New South 01:55:57.280 --> 01:56:00.056 Wales and Tasmania are the only two 01:56:00.080 --> 01:56:02.456 states who still do this. Victoria 01:56:02.480 --> 01:56:05.256 stopped it quite a long time ago as did 01:56:05.280 --> 01:56:08.280 WA I think. Um so 01:56:09.440 --> 01:56:11.095 so 01:56:11.119 --> 01:56:14.119 sorry losing my place here. This very 01:56:14.400 --> 01:56:17.400 iconic tree will have its neighboring 01:56:17.760 --> 01:56:20.760 compartment logged. We lose that forest. 01:56:21.920 --> 01:56:24.135 We lose an old growth tree. We don't get 01:56:24.159 --> 01:56:25.655 it back. We don't get it back in our 01:56:25.679 --> 01:56:27.976 lifetime. Remember 500 years is what it 01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:30.695 takes. 01:56:30.719 --> 01:56:32.536 This industry 01:56:32.560 --> 01:56:35.560 is costing the New South Wales taxpayers 01:56:36.800 --> 01:56:38.776 something like $20 million a year 01:56:38.800 --> 01:56:40.936 because it loses money. And where do 01:56:40.960 --> 01:56:43.655 these trees go to? They go to wood 01:56:43.679 --> 01:56:46.679 chips. They go to pallets. They 60 about 01:56:47.840 --> 01:56:50.840 65% of each tree is used. They use the 01:56:50.960 --> 01:56:53.175 the lovely long tall bit. See the tall 01:56:53.199 --> 01:56:56.199 bit? They use that and the top lays on 01:56:56.560 --> 01:56:58.856 the forest floor to create fire hazard 01:56:58.880 --> 01:57:01.416 and is wasted timber. If I can have the 01:57:01.440 --> 01:57:04.440 next picture please. Um 01:57:05.760 --> 01:57:08.615 this is an area of broom after it's 01:57:08.639 --> 01:57:11.639 logged. Now it's not big spotties area 01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:14.215 but you can see that the logs are 01:57:14.239 --> 01:57:16.695 stacked around there. 01:57:16.719 --> 01:57:18.456 Now, 01:57:18.480 --> 01:57:21.480 how many jobs would we lose if we 01:57:21.840 --> 01:57:23.496 stopped logging in the Broomman forest? 01:57:23.520 --> 01:57:26.456 What I'm asking for here is an immediate 01:57:26.480 --> 01:57:29.480 stop to logging in Broomman and creation 01:57:30.320 --> 01:57:33.320 of a flora reserve for 3,000 hectares of 01:57:33.679 --> 01:57:36.056 the North Broomman forest. 01:57:36.080 --> 01:57:38.856 I'm asking for that because it's what 01:57:38.880 --> 01:57:41.496 the forest needs. The community is in 01:57:41.520 --> 01:57:44.520 supportive of this is in support of this 01:57:44.800 --> 01:57:47.800 and there are almost no jobs tied up in 01:57:47.840 --> 01:57:50.135 this. Now you will hear otherwise 01:57:50.159 --> 01:57:51.736 because if you look at the forestry 01:57:51.760 --> 01:57:53.336 commission's website you can see that 01:57:53.360 --> 01:57:56.296 there are some 300 jobs tied up in in 01:57:56.320 --> 01:57:59.320 forestry. Most of those jobs are in 01:57:59.360 --> 01:58:02.360 sawmilling of pine plantation pine in 01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:07.880 the Shoalhaven reported in 2021 census 01:58:08.960 --> 01:58:11.655 and this has been dropping. We have 13 01:58:11.679 --> 01:58:14.679 forestry support service jobs. 01:58:14.880 --> 01:58:16.936 So councelor Kelly and your time is up. 01:58:16.960 --> 01:58:17.575 Is it? 01:58:17.599 --> 01:58:17.896 Yep. 01:58:17.920 --> 01:58:20.135 Can I have a brief extension? 01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:22.456 So an ext are you moving an extension 01:58:22.480 --> 01:58:24.695 council crystal 01:58:24.719 --> 01:58:26.856 and councelor tribe. Anybody wishing to 01:58:26.880 --> 01:58:29.880 vote against? I'll do the extension. 01:58:30.719 --> 01:58:32.536 So, what we have here is something 01:58:32.560 --> 01:58:34.856 really remarkable that could be a 01:58:34.880 --> 01:58:36.615 significant tourist attraction for the 01:58:36.639 --> 01:58:38.215 area. It already is. And if any 01:58:38.239 --> 01:58:40.456 counselors, and I'd extend this to staff 01:58:40.480 --> 01:58:42.536 as well, if you want to come and have a 01:58:42.560 --> 01:58:44.776 look at Big Spotty, even I with my 01:58:44.800 --> 01:58:46.776 walking stick managed to make it down to 01:58:46.800 --> 01:58:49.016 Big Spot and it's a beautiful site and 01:58:49.040 --> 01:58:51.416 everyone I know who has gone there has 01:58:51.440 --> 01:58:53.655 been deeply moved by it. Can we have the 01:58:53.679 --> 01:58:56.679 the next picture, please? Um, what we 01:58:57.360 --> 01:58:59.896 want is to create a 3,000 hectare flora 01:58:59.920 --> 01:59:02.376 reserve extending south of Big Spotty on 01:59:02.400 --> 01:59:04.536 the Clyde River and north to Middle 01:59:04.560 --> 01:59:07.095 Ridge Road to be part of a future much 01:59:07.119 --> 01:59:09.256 more extensive conservation area once 01:59:09.280 --> 01:59:12.135 logging is stopped completely. 01:59:12.159 --> 01:59:14.296 Infrastructure to support Big Spot 01:59:14.320 --> 01:59:16.215 provided should be provided by the state 01:59:16.239 --> 01:59:19.239 government. Um, and this would include a 01:59:20.560 --> 01:59:22.936 50 m boardwalk and viewing platform at 01:59:22.960 --> 01:59:25.655 Big Spotty, clearly marked parking and 01:59:25.679 --> 01:59:28.215 signage next to the four mile road, 01:59:28.239 --> 01:59:30.056 signage explaining the forest's 01:59:30.080 --> 01:59:32.056 ecological, cultural, and historical 01:59:32.080 --> 01:59:34.615 significance, and a shallow boot bath to 01:59:34.639 --> 01:59:36.695 disinfect the the visitor's boots to 01:59:36.719 --> 01:59:39.016 make it easy and to do what other 01:59:39.040 --> 01:59:41.256 countries do, what New Zealand does with 01:59:41.280 --> 01:59:44.280 its grand trees, what California does 01:59:44.639 --> 01:59:46.856 with its redwoods. You make it a tourist 01:59:46.880 --> 01:59:48.936 attraction. You make it a thing that is 01:59:48.960 --> 01:59:51.960 revered. So I know that the res many 01:59:53.040 --> 01:59:55.736 residents of the Shoalhaven support this 01:59:55.760 --> 01:59:58.135 move. We need to get the state 01:59:58.159 --> 02:00:00.135 government to be more proactive than 02:00:00.159 --> 02:00:01.655 they have been being. They are sitting 02:00:01.679 --> 02:00:04.135 on their hands waiting for solutions 02:00:04.159 --> 02:00:06.456 from someone else and saying that it's 02:00:06.480 --> 02:00:09.480 an issue stopped I think maybe by union 02:00:09.599 --> 02:00:12.456 pressure from a small group of workers. 02:00:12.480 --> 02:00:15.480 So I encourage the councilors to support 02:00:16.000 --> 02:00:17.816 putting pressure on our state government 02:00:17.840 --> 02:00:19.976 to make this happen and preserve this 02:00:20.000 --> 02:00:22.695 beautiful thing that we have in our area 02:00:22.719 --> 02:00:25.336 for the future. Thank you 02:00:25.360 --> 02:00:28.360 councelor Steel. 02:00:30.400 --> 02:00:33.400 Okay. um 02:00:34.400 --> 02:00:36.615 encourage the state government to become 02:00:36.639 --> 02:00:39.639 more proactive in protecting our 02:00:40.159 --> 02:00:42.456 bushland. 02:00:42.480 --> 02:00:44.615 Tree tree tree pro protection zones 02:00:44.639 --> 02:00:46.536 are by and large considered to be the 02:00:46.560 --> 02:00:49.016 extent of the drip zone which is the 02:00:49.040 --> 02:00:51.496 outermost reach of the treere's canopy. 02:00:51.520 --> 02:00:53.655 This is a far cry from the proposed 02:00:53.679 --> 02:00:56.615 3,000 hectares suggested. 02:00:56.639 --> 02:00:58.615 I would suggest a boardwalk and signage 02:00:58.639 --> 02:01:00.936 might be more realistic. According to 02:01:00.960 --> 02:01:03.960 the Australian standard AS497/209, 02:01:06.080 --> 02:01:07.816 protection of trees on development 02:01:07.840 --> 02:01:10.776 sites, the golden stand formula used for 02:01:10.800 --> 02:01:13.016 calculating the protected area needed to 02:01:13.040 --> 02:01:16.040 counter wind throw is 1.5 times the 02:01:16.639 --> 02:01:19.639 height of the tree. This being 106.5 m 02:01:20.320 --> 02:01:23.016 in all directions from the tree base. 02:01:23.040 --> 02:01:25.256 This formula is actually used by forest 02:01:25.280 --> 02:01:28.280 scientists as well as our own CSRO. 02:01:30.000 --> 02:01:33.000 We have in the Shoalhaven 4,561 02:01:33.920 --> 02:01:36.536 square kilmters of land with over 70% 02:01:36.560 --> 02:01:38.695 already taken up with national parks, 02:01:38.719 --> 02:01:40.695 state forests, natural nature 02:01:40.719 --> 02:01:43.575 reserves and protected zones. We have 02:01:43.599 --> 02:01:45.256 bush tracks with gates on them 02:01:45.280 --> 02:01:48.280 everywhere. And now this tree is the 02:01:48.480 --> 02:01:50.615 reason to lock up another 3,000 02:01:50.639 --> 02:01:52.536 hectares. 02:01:52.560 --> 02:01:55.336 So let's have a look at the impact how 02:01:55.360 --> 02:01:57.416 how that really sort of fits into the 02:01:57.440 --> 02:01:59.575 overall scheme of things. 02:01:59.599 --> 02:02:02.599 Shoalhaven 4561 02:02:03.119 --> 02:02:06.119 km less than 70% already stated brings 02:02:07.520 --> 02:02:10.296 us down to 1,368 02:02:10.320 --> 02:02:11.816 km. 02:02:11.840 --> 02:02:13.496 Now if we take away from that figure the 02:02:13.520 --> 02:02:16.376 estimated 20% of our total regional area 02:02:16.400 --> 02:02:18.695 which is for agriculture which comes to 02:02:18.719 --> 02:02:20.296 912 02:02:20.320 --> 02:02:22.936 km. We take that away from the remaining 02:02:22.960 --> 02:02:25.960 1368 km and we're left with 456 02:02:27.760 --> 02:02:30.760 square km of the Shoalhaven freehold and 02:02:31.679 --> 02:02:33.816 community usable land for the whole of 02:02:33.840 --> 02:02:35.976 the Shoalhaven. 02:02:36.000 --> 02:02:39.000 So 02:02:39.520 --> 02:02:41.016 sorry. 02:02:41.040 --> 02:02:43.175 Yes. So that's one10enth of our whole 02:02:43.199 --> 02:02:46.199 area is actually freehold and community 02:02:46.239 --> 02:02:48.856 usable. We still have to subtract from 02:02:48.880 --> 02:02:50.936 that the remaining 1/10enth of what 02:02:50.960 --> 02:02:52.776 we've got. The space taken up by 02:02:52.800 --> 02:02:54.296 existing developments, towns and 02:02:54.320 --> 02:02:57.320 industry, which is 5% or 228 km. Roads 02:02:58.639 --> 02:03:00.376 and infrastructure, including public 02:03:00.400 --> 02:03:02.056 parks and reserves, accounts for another 02:03:02.080 --> 02:03:05.080 3% or 137 km. 02:03:07.599 --> 02:03:09.256 Right now, we're left with 91 square 02:03:09.280 --> 02:03:11.175 kilmters. 02:03:11.199 --> 02:03:13.736 Okay, which is not restricted or is just 02:03:13.760 --> 02:03:16.296 out there to be used. 02:03:16.320 --> 02:03:18.135 These are from Shoalhaven City Council 02:03:18.159 --> 02:03:19.416 and the New South Wales State 02:03:19.440 --> 02:03:21.816 Government's own websites. Luckily for 02:03:21.840 --> 02:03:24.135 us, Big Spotty is in the Broomman State 02:03:24.159 --> 02:03:26.215 Forest and has had the protection of the 02:03:26.239 --> 02:03:27.736 New South Wales State Forestry 02:03:27.760 --> 02:03:30.760 Commission since 1916. 02:03:31.040 --> 02:03:33.175 North Broomman State Forest has been 02:03:33.199 --> 02:03:35.416 continuously harvested for renewable 02:03:35.440 --> 02:03:38.440 timber and regrown for 110 years. The 02:03:39.520 --> 02:03:42.520 last time it was harvested was in 2005 02:03:42.560 --> 02:03:44.376 and earlier operations took place in 02:03:44.400 --> 02:03:47.400 1978, 1966, 1951 as well as prior to the 02:03:48.960 --> 02:03:51.256 1950s. And apparently another schedule 02:03:51.280 --> 02:03:53.575 of logging work is due to start in the 02:03:53.599 --> 02:03:56.599 immediate future. Natural natural bush 02:03:56.960 --> 02:03:58.776 fires have also impacted the forest many 02:03:58.800 --> 02:04:01.800 times. Yet Big Spotty is still thriving 02:04:01.920 --> 02:04:04.215 as much as ever. 02:04:04.239 --> 02:04:06.056 So given the good care big spotty has 02:04:06.080 --> 02:04:07.736 received to date from the New South 02:04:07.760 --> 02:04:09.816 Wales forestry and the protection that 02:04:09.840 --> 02:04:11.416 is already well established and has 02:04:11.440 --> 02:04:13.175 allowed Big Spotties to continue 02:04:13.199 --> 02:04:15.976 continue to thrive. Why would we need to 02:04:16.000 --> 02:04:19.000 change it to a flora reserve? This is 02:04:19.040 --> 02:04:21.016 where the true probable outcome of this 02:04:21.040 --> 02:04:24.040 motion if agreed to comes to light. As a 02:04:24.159 --> 02:04:25.816 state forest, Broomman State Forest is 02:04:25.840 --> 02:04:27.575 still open to logging therefore 02:04:27.599 --> 02:04:29.655 providing income for an estimated 3 to 02:04:29.679 --> 02:04:31.816 400 community members. our community 02:04:31.840 --> 02:04:33.655 members. 02:04:33.679 --> 02:04:36.536 But state forests are also open to 02:04:36.560 --> 02:04:38.615 residents and tourists to explore the 02:04:38.639 --> 02:04:41.016 dwindling bush tracks and provide free 02:04:41.040 --> 02:04:42.536 camping for community members and 02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:45.256 tourists alike. Something many locals 02:04:45.280 --> 02:04:47.655 and visitors have been quite dismayed to 02:04:47.679 --> 02:04:49.816 see getting closed off and gated on such 02:04:49.840 --> 02:04:52.840 a determined and large scale. 02:04:54.080 --> 02:04:55.655 I feel that Big Spotty deserves a 02:04:55.679 --> 02:04:57.976 boardwalk to protect the feeder roots 02:04:58.000 --> 02:05:00.056 and signage explaining the cultural and 02:05:00.080 --> 02:05:02.536 ecological significance of Big Spoty. 02:05:02.560 --> 02:05:04.376 But I cannot support this being used as 02:05:04.400 --> 02:05:06.856 an excuse to shut down a further 30 02:05:06.880 --> 02:05:09.336 square kilometers. 02:05:09.360 --> 02:05:11.095 When so much of our community backyard 02:05:11.119 --> 02:05:13.496 has already been gated off and denied to 02:05:13.520 --> 02:05:15.336 the public. 02:05:15.360 --> 02:05:17.256 If this motion passes, not only will it 02:05:17.280 --> 02:05:20.280 put at risk 3 to 400 jobs for locals, it 02:05:20.880 --> 02:05:22.536 will also it will also mean that the 02:05:22.560 --> 02:05:24.776 bush tracks and unsealed roads within 02:05:24.800 --> 02:05:26.615 this state forest will no longer be the 02:05:26.639 --> 02:05:29.256 financial burden of logging companies. 02:05:29.280 --> 02:05:30.776 And why should it be if they getting 02:05:30.800 --> 02:05:31.976 kicked out? 02:05:32.000 --> 02:05:33.816 So it will no doubt become another part 02:05:33.840 --> 02:05:36.840 of our region gated off from recreation. 02:05:37.280 --> 02:05:39.256 Your time is up. Can you finish off 02:05:39.280 --> 02:05:39.575 please? 02:05:39.599 --> 02:05:41.016 Move. 02:05:41.040 --> 02:05:42.695 So it's been moved and seconded by 02:05:42.719 --> 02:05:44.456 councelor Clancy. Anybody wishing to 02:05:44.480 --> 02:05:47.175 vote against? Um, continue. 02:05:47.199 --> 02:05:49.256 Thank you very much. 02:05:49.280 --> 02:05:51.416 Um, 02:05:51.440 --> 02:05:54.440 okay. So, , okay. So, um, why should 02:05:56.159 --> 02:05:57.736 they be responsible for the financial 02:05:57.760 --> 02:05:59.496 burden if they're no longer allowed to 02:05:59.520 --> 02:06:02.520 log in in the area? 02:06:02.719 --> 02:06:04.296 Um, no doubt it'll become another part 02:06:04.320 --> 02:06:06.936 of our region gated off from 02:06:06.960 --> 02:06:09.575 recreational use, leaving it exclusive 02:06:09.599 --> 02:06:12.599 to hikers at best and in my opinion open 02:06:12.800 --> 02:06:15.416 to greater bushfire threat. Unmaintained 02:06:15.440 --> 02:06:17.896 trails and tracks are unmaintained 02:06:17.920 --> 02:06:20.135 bushfire breaks. Without constant 02:06:20.159 --> 02:06:22.296 movement and man and maintenance by 02:06:22.320 --> 02:06:23.976 loggers and the public, these tracks 02:06:24.000 --> 02:06:25.575 become overgrown and pose an even 02:06:25.599 --> 02:06:27.896 greater fire threat. 02:06:27.920 --> 02:06:29.496 We have received a letter from the 02:06:29.520 --> 02:06:31.496 forestry commission themselves back in 02:06:31.520 --> 02:06:34.520 two 2023 when this was first 02:06:34.560 --> 02:06:36.296 suggested detailing the management and 02:06:36.320 --> 02:06:37.976 protection already afforded to big 02:06:38.000 --> 02:06:40.296 spotty. This was released to all 02:06:40.320 --> 02:06:41.976 counselors for your information. I think 02:06:42.000 --> 02:06:43.736 we can all agree that adequate 02:06:43.760 --> 02:06:46.456 protection is already happening and in 02:06:46.480 --> 02:06:49.016 place for spotty. We've also had a 02:06:49.040 --> 02:06:50.936 letter from our local four-wheel driving 02:06:50.960 --> 02:06:52.936 club who are great champions of the 02:06:52.960 --> 02:06:55.960 bush. They promote responsible use and 02:06:56.239 --> 02:06:58.936 low impact full-he driving not only in 02:06:58.960 --> 02:07:01.575 our region but around around the state. 02:07:01.599 --> 02:07:04.296 Um supporting the fact that we should 02:07:04.320 --> 02:07:07.320 not agree to this motion. I'm happy for 02:07:07.599 --> 02:07:09.496 a boardwalk to enable a greater portion 02:07:09.520 --> 02:07:11.575 of our community to be able to enjoy Big 02:07:11.599 --> 02:07:14.296 Spotty as well as the informal sorry the 02:07:14.320 --> 02:07:16.615 information signage to go with it. But 02:07:16.639 --> 02:07:18.695 gating off more of what little we have 02:07:18.719 --> 02:07:21.175 left of the bush to enjoy is not in the 02:07:21.199 --> 02:07:23.816 best interest of community or tourism. 02:07:23.840 --> 02:07:25.256 Thank you very much. 02:07:25.280 --> 02:07:27.816 Yep. I've got you, Council Councilman 02:07:27.840 --> 02:07:30.840 Norris, 02:07:30.960 --> 02:07:32.296 Mayor White, and I thank Councelor 02:07:32.320 --> 02:07:34.695 Killian for bringing this motion to us. 02:07:34.719 --> 02:07:37.496 Um, what we have here is an opportunity, 02:07:37.520 --> 02:07:39.655 an opportunity to do something really 02:07:39.679 --> 02:07:42.615 special with this really special tree. 02:07:42.639 --> 02:07:44.456 um all around the state, all around the 02:07:44.480 --> 02:07:46.055 country even. We've got a number of big 02:07:46.079 --> 02:07:47.976 things. Got a big banana up in Coff 02:07:48.000 --> 02:07:51.000 Harbor. Got a big big axe. Um I was just 02:07:52.320 --> 02:07:54.215 googling it. there's the big bench in 02:07:54.239 --> 02:07:56.215 Broken Hill. There's the big bowling 02:07:56.239 --> 02:07:59.239 lake Cathy. There's the um there's a 02:08:00.000 --> 02:08:01.016 number of big things. There's a big 02:08:01.040 --> 02:08:02.456 golden guitar where we went to town with 02:08:02.480 --> 02:08:05.175 the last LGNSW conference I attended. 02:08:05.199 --> 02:08:06.776 we've got a number of big things around 02:08:06.800 --> 02:08:08.615 this country. It's a hallmark of who we 02:08:08.639 --> 02:08:10.215 are as Australians to go and look at big 02:08:10.239 --> 02:08:12.296 things and say, "Oh, that's cool." , 02:08:12.320 --> 02:08:13.976 but we've got something really genuine 02:08:14.000 --> 02:08:16.135 right here in in our backyard in Big 02:08:16.159 --> 02:08:19.159 Spotty that is a genuine it's a tree 02:08:19.520 --> 02:08:22.520 that's grown to 72 m. It's quite huge. 02:08:23.599 --> 02:08:25.976 Um, and if you haven't gone and seen it, 02:08:26.000 --> 02:08:27.736 I'd really urge you to take a take a 02:08:27.760 --> 02:08:30.135 closer look cuz it is quite a remarkable 02:08:30.159 --> 02:08:32.936 tree. , and I think this is quite an 02:08:32.960 --> 02:08:35.256 absolutely remarkable thing we can do to 02:08:35.280 --> 02:08:37.175 it. This is a shot in the arm for Shaw 02:08:37.199 --> 02:08:39.095 Haven tourism because they can come here 02:08:39.119 --> 02:08:41.575 and say, "I saw Big Spotty and then I 02:08:41.599 --> 02:08:43.655 stayed at Shoalhaven and then I saw some 02:08:43.679 --> 02:08:45.736 of the great sites around." So, we can 02:08:45.760 --> 02:08:47.575 really make Big Spoty work for us and I 02:08:47.599 --> 02:08:49.095 think we should because it's a really 02:08:49.119 --> 02:08:50.776 great asset we have right here in our 02:08:50.800 --> 02:08:53.016 backyard and it grew on its own 500 02:08:53.040 --> 02:08:55.016 years and it's still going strong. 02:08:55.040 --> 02:08:58.040 Councelor Kim 02:09:00.800 --> 02:09:02.695 cost again 02:09:02.719 --> 02:09:05.175 um are we overriding state laws 02:09:05.199 --> 02:09:08.199 legislation? Um we already have a letter 02:09:08.800 --> 02:09:11.800 from 2023 as councelor 02:09:12.560 --> 02:09:14.456 um 02:09:14.480 --> 02:09:17.480 councelor steel sorry he said um said um 02:09:20.560 --> 02:09:22.456 the other question is like the foot 02:09:22.480 --> 02:09:25.416 dipping you know who's going to do this 02:09:25.440 --> 02:09:27.016 who's going to fill it who's going to 02:09:27.040 --> 02:09:29.575 empty it where will it be tipped is it 02:09:29.599 --> 02:09:31.416 is it classes environment there's a 02:09:31.440 --> 02:09:33.736 whole lot of work to be done to get this 02:09:33.760 --> 02:09:36.760 done and cost Um, 02:09:38.079 --> 02:09:39.816 I don't know if everybody's read the 02:09:39.840 --> 02:09:42.215 Forestry Corporation, but I'm a I'm a 02:09:42.239 --> 02:09:44.055 bit surprised they weren't invited to 02:09:44.079 --> 02:09:47.079 speak on this. Um, 02:09:47.360 --> 02:09:50.360 it was addressed in 2023 to u Mr. Dunay 02:09:51.520 --> 02:09:53.416 at the time. 02:09:53.440 --> 02:09:56.440 Um as a background, the 02:09:56.960 --> 02:09:59.256 Lee Blessington, the regional manager of 02:09:59.280 --> 02:10:02.280 the southern area has asked to speak 02:10:03.679 --> 02:10:05.575 um on behalf of the forestry 02:10:05.599 --> 02:10:08.456 corporation. the forestry corporation 02:10:08.480 --> 02:10:10.215 has been appointed to manage state 02:10:10.239 --> 02:10:12.936 forest for a range of uses including 02:10:12.960 --> 02:10:15.736 tourism, environmental conservation, and 02:10:15.760 --> 02:10:18.760 renewable timber production. I honor 02:10:18.960 --> 02:10:20.776 our loggers and the work that they've 02:10:20.800 --> 02:10:22.615 done. I've lived here a long time. I've 02:10:22.639 --> 02:10:25.496 seen no bear patches like that because 02:10:25.520 --> 02:10:27.736 they they work it out in areas where 02:10:27.760 --> 02:10:30.615 they log and then they go back in a few 02:10:30.639 --> 02:10:33.256 years and it's all back again. I just 02:10:33.280 --> 02:10:35.496 know with my backre that's what happens 02:10:35.520 --> 02:10:37.416 as well. They seem to come up 02:10:37.440 --> 02:10:39.896 everywhere. They're they're quite 02:10:39.920 --> 02:10:42.920 vigorous as as replanting themselves. Um 02:10:45.520 --> 02:10:47.816 the letter states that they would like 02:10:47.840 --> 02:10:50.536 to be involved 02:10:50.560 --> 02:10:53.560 um at least consulted in in regard to 02:10:54.320 --> 02:10:57.320 this um this issue. So I'm quite 02:10:57.920 --> 02:11:00.376 surprised that we've been ignorant not 02:11:00.400 --> 02:11:03.016 to even involve them in the in this 02:11:03.040 --> 02:11:05.655 conversation. The they state in the 02:11:05.679 --> 02:11:07.575 letter that the protection of 02:11:07.599 --> 02:11:10.599 significant trees forestry corp is aware 02:11:11.520 --> 02:11:14.520 of and has mapped significant trees. The 02:11:15.360 --> 02:11:17.896 tree in North Broomman State Forest has 02:11:17.920 --> 02:11:20.456 been there for many years permanently 02:11:20.480 --> 02:11:23.480 protected with an exclusion zone that is 02:11:23.520 --> 02:11:25.896 set aside for conservation and 02:11:25.920 --> 02:11:28.776 unavailable for timber harvesting. North 02:11:28.800 --> 02:11:31.575 Broomman State Forest has been harvested 02:11:31.599 --> 02:11:34.456 and regrown many times over the hundred 02:11:34.480 --> 02:11:37.480 years, including 2005, 1978, 1966, 1951, 02:11:40.639 --> 02:11:43.095 and earlier. But the tree known as Big 02:11:43.119 --> 02:11:45.736 Spotty has been carefully protected 02:11:45.760 --> 02:11:48.376 every time. 02:11:48.400 --> 02:11:51.095 in future if there's anybody wanting to 02:11:51.119 --> 02:11:53.736 go ahead with this I think that the New 02:11:53.760 --> 02:11:55.896 South Wales forestry and the logging 02:11:55.920 --> 02:11:58.776 people should be consulted. we can't 02:11:58.800 --> 02:12:01.800 make a decision on this. Um I would 02:12:02.000 --> 02:12:04.135 propose that 02:12:04.159 --> 02:12:07.159 um I foreshadow a motion that we go and 02:12:07.679 --> 02:12:09.976 we get Forestry New South Wales to go to 02:12:10.000 --> 02:12:12.456 a workshop meeting because there's 02:12:12.480 --> 02:12:14.856 already a declared conservation area 02:12:14.880 --> 02:12:17.575 around this tree. Thank you. 02:12:17.599 --> 02:12:20.599 Thank you. I've now got councelor Boyd. 02:12:21.599 --> 02:12:24.599 I just wanted to point out that all 02:12:25.280 --> 02:12:27.336 that's being asked here is to write a 02:12:27.360 --> 02:12:29.896 letter to the state government 02:12:29.920 --> 02:12:31.976 supporting 02:12:32.000 --> 02:12:35.000 the preservation of big spotty and and 02:12:35.360 --> 02:12:38.360 list a 50 me board supporting the idea 02:12:38.400 --> 02:12:41.256 of a 50 me boardwalk clearly marked car 02:12:41.280 --> 02:12:44.280 parking signage and a shallow boot bath 02:12:45.199 --> 02:12:47.256 to disinfect visitors boots. We're 02:12:47.280 --> 02:12:49.496 asking if we can write a letter of 02:12:49.520 --> 02:12:52.520 support that these things happen. 02:12:52.960 --> 02:12:55.256 It shouldn't cost us very much to do 02:12:55.280 --> 02:12:58.280 that. Um any consultation with 02:13:00.480 --> 02:13:03.480 um forestry, the forest commission, etc. 02:13:05.119 --> 02:13:06.776 will be done at the state government 02:13:06.800 --> 02:13:09.800 level when they make their when they if 02:13:10.159 --> 02:13:11.816 they decide to go ahead and discuss 02:13:11.840 --> 02:13:14.840 this. So I don't think we need to 02:13:14.880 --> 02:13:17.880 concern ourselves with cost or with that 02:13:18.639 --> 02:13:21.639 level of consultation. If we support big 02:13:21.760 --> 02:13:24.760 spotty having a um signage etc. Then 02:13:28.000 --> 02:13:30.776 that's all we're asking for we're asking 02:13:30.800 --> 02:13:33.575 for in this um notice of motion is a 02:13:33.599 --> 02:13:36.599 letter of support 02:13:36.719 --> 02:13:38.776 and a letter urging the government in 02:13:38.800 --> 02:13:41.095 writing to declare creation of a big 02:13:41.119 --> 02:13:43.896 spotty floor of reserve. I we're not 02:13:43.920 --> 02:13:46.776 even I don't think the size is even part 02:13:46.800 --> 02:13:49.256 of that. 02:13:49.280 --> 02:13:52.280 Councelor um Clancy 02:13:56.239 --> 02:13:59.016 um further to what council Boyd was 02:13:59.040 --> 02:14:00.695 saying, 02:14:00.719 --> 02:14:03.655 it is asking for more than just a 50 m 02:14:03.679 --> 02:14:06.215 boardwalk for support. It's asking for 02:14:06.239 --> 02:14:08.456 the creation of a big spotty flora 02:14:08.480 --> 02:14:10.776 reserve. I don't know what that 02:14:10.800 --> 02:14:13.800 specifically means. So, um I absolutely 02:14:14.960 --> 02:14:17.416 support a 50 meter boardwalk and viewing 02:14:17.440 --> 02:14:19.256 platform. I think that's a fantastic 02:14:19.280 --> 02:14:22.280 idea. 02:14:27.119 --> 02:14:29.416 Are you right, Councelor Clancy? 02:14:29.440 --> 02:14:31.976 I'm just councelor. 02:14:32.000 --> 02:14:35.000 You're on your phone. 02:14:36.320 --> 02:14:38.135 I'm talking to your motion. 02:14:38.159 --> 02:14:39.416 Excuse me. 02:14:39.440 --> 02:14:42.440 Through the chair, please. through 02:14:42.800 --> 02:14:45.800 council councelor Killian was on her 02:14:45.920 --> 02:14:48.615 phone whilst I was talking to her motion 02:14:48.639 --> 02:14:51.095 and I found that disrespectful so I 02:14:51.119 --> 02:14:53.256 politely stopped and waited for her to 02:14:53.280 --> 02:14:53.736 finish. 02:14:53.760 --> 02:14:55.976 All right, continue. 02:14:56.000 --> 02:14:58.695 Um I was going on to say that I would 02:14:58.719 --> 02:15:00.856 absolutely support a 50 m viewing 02:15:00.880 --> 02:15:03.016 boardwalk and platform. I've actually 02:15:03.040 --> 02:15:04.936 been there myself and have mobility 02:15:04.960 --> 02:15:07.416 issues and I think that a a viewing 02:15:07.440 --> 02:15:10.440 platform would significantly enhance um 02:15:10.719 --> 02:15:12.776 the opportunity for people with 02:15:12.800 --> 02:15:15.800 mobility issues to go and see Big Spotty 02:15:15.920 --> 02:15:18.135 because she is a wonder and a gorgeous 02:15:18.159 --> 02:15:20.055 tree and I think it's an opportunity 02:15:20.079 --> 02:15:23.079 that we can embrace as council um to do 02:15:23.760 --> 02:15:26.615 that. I think, you know, clearly marking 02:15:26.639 --> 02:15:29.416 um signage that indicates car parking 02:15:29.440 --> 02:15:32.440 and um direction is great. Having QR 02:15:32.800 --> 02:15:35.095 codes that talk about the native flora 02:15:35.119 --> 02:15:37.416 and fauna that are surrounding Big 02:15:37.440 --> 02:15:40.440 Spotty is a fantastic idea. And having 02:15:41.119 --> 02:15:44.119 um that linked in with other native 02:15:44.400 --> 02:15:46.376 walks such as the ones we have up in 02:15:46.400 --> 02:15:48.936 Kangaroo Valley that would um promote 02:15:48.960 --> 02:15:51.416 more tourism for the area, I think is 02:15:51.440 --> 02:15:54.440 fantastic. 02:15:55.520 --> 02:15:58.520 And um I'm questionable about the 02:15:59.199 --> 02:16:01.496 shallow boot bath disinfecting 02:16:01.520 --> 02:16:03.175 visitors boots. I think that's something 02:16:03.199 --> 02:16:04.856 I'd like to explore a little bit 02:16:04.880 --> 02:16:07.880 further. But in saying that um yeah I've 02:16:09.199 --> 02:16:11.095 made my point and I have been 02:16:11.119 --> 02:16:12.936 interrupted again. 02:16:12.960 --> 02:16:15.960 Is there any further speakers? 02:16:16.079 --> 02:16:18.536 Any question? Councelor Kemp, 02:16:18.560 --> 02:16:21.416 it's a state forest as I understand. Why 02:16:21.440 --> 02:16:23.336 is it coming this to council? Why isn't 02:16:23.360 --> 02:16:25.736 state paying for it? 02:16:25.760 --> 02:16:27.655 Um 02:16:27.679 --> 02:16:29.655 wouldn't it be a state contribution? 02:16:29.679 --> 02:16:30.936 Sorry, what's the exact question, 02:16:30.960 --> 02:16:31.655 council? 02:16:31.679 --> 02:16:34.216 Okay, it's a state forest. 02:16:34.240 --> 02:16:37.240 Um you're asking council to put in 02:16:37.280 --> 02:16:39.736 boardwalks. Why wouldn't there be a 02:16:39.760 --> 02:16:42.760 contribution from state? 02:16:44.319 --> 02:16:45.816 I can't understand what 02:16:45.840 --> 02:16:47.736 she's saying. Why isn't the state doing 02:16:47.760 --> 02:16:49.415 the project? Not why is it coming 02:16:49.439 --> 02:16:51.335 through council? Why is it coming 02:16:51.359 --> 02:16:52.776 through council? 02:16:52.800 --> 02:16:53.415 Yeah, 02:16:53.439 --> 02:16:56.439 again, I mean, councilors can put up 02:16:56.880 --> 02:16:58.695 notices of motion as they see fit. I 02:16:58.719 --> 02:17:01.335 mean, obviously, you're all elected 02:17:01.359 --> 02:17:04.216 to do so. So, I mean, obviously, from 02:17:04.240 --> 02:17:05.335 time to time, there is going to be 02:17:05.359 --> 02:17:08.295 motions where council will pass a 02:17:08.319 --> 02:17:10.375 notice of motion to write to other tiers 02:17:10.399 --> 02:17:12.535 of government about a local issue. So, 02:17:12.559 --> 02:17:15.096 that's in essence what this has done. 02:17:15.120 --> 02:17:16.375 Specifically in relation to your 02:17:16.399 --> 02:17:19.399 question about the position of New 02:17:20.319 --> 02:17:22.695 South Wales forestry or the state 02:17:22.719 --> 02:17:25.655 government, I'm not aware of what their 02:17:25.679 --> 02:17:27.976 latest position is in relation to either 02:17:28.000 --> 02:17:30.136 a floral reserve or in relation to big 02:17:30.160 --> 02:17:32.615 spotty and tourist visitor 02:17:32.639 --> 02:17:34.776 infrastructure around around the trees. 02:17:34.800 --> 02:17:37.800 So I'm not sure that any of my directors 02:17:37.920 --> 02:17:40.856 do either to be honest. So 02:17:40.880 --> 02:17:42.535 thank you. 02:17:42.559 --> 02:17:45.559 So, we'll go to um Councelor Wilkins. 02:17:47.840 --> 02:17:50.535 Um thanks, Madame Mayor. 02:17:50.559 --> 02:17:53.096 It seems to me there are two separate 02:17:53.120 --> 02:17:56.120 motions here. Um and and they should be 02:17:57.120 --> 02:17:59.575 separated perhaps. Everyone seems to 02:17:59.599 --> 02:18:01.896 agree with the idea of a 50 m boardwalk 02:18:01.920 --> 02:18:04.295 and viewing platform and a clearly 02:18:04.319 --> 02:18:06.776 marked car parking signage next to four 02:18:06.800 --> 02:18:09.800 mile road, but the creation of the big 02:18:10.080 --> 02:18:13.080 spotty flora reserve at nearly 3,000 02:18:13.840 --> 02:18:16.216 hectares seems to be a whole different 02:18:16.240 --> 02:18:18.375 ballpark which the foreshadowed 02:18:18.399 --> 02:18:21.399 motion from councelor Kemp does address. 02:18:22.160 --> 02:18:24.455 So, I mean, would it be possible to 02:18:24.479 --> 02:18:26.216 separate the two because I'm certainly 02:18:26.240 --> 02:18:28.455 in favor of the the boardwalk, the 02:18:28.479 --> 02:18:30.695 viewing platform, the clearly marked car 02:18:30.719 --> 02:18:33.256 parking, and maybe some signage, but 02:18:33.280 --> 02:18:36.280 the 3,000 hectares that that needs a 02:18:36.719 --> 02:18:38.776 little more investigation. Thank you. 02:18:38.800 --> 02:18:40.056 Thank you. 02:18:40.080 --> 02:18:40.936 Done. 02:18:40.960 --> 02:18:43.016 councelor Dunn and then I'll go to 02:18:43.040 --> 02:18:46.040 councelor Crystalis. 02:18:50.319 --> 02:18:53.319 Oh, she's on mute. You're on mute 02:18:58.240 --> 02:19:00.695 now. Still on mute. 02:19:00.719 --> 02:19:03.719 Oh, there you go. 02:19:06.559 --> 02:19:08.615 Now, I still can't hear you. Sorry. I'll 02:19:08.639 --> 02:19:10.375 just go to the audio. Is there a 02:19:10.399 --> 02:19:13.399 problem? 02:19:40.000 --> 02:19:41.575 Yeah. Do you want to try again? 02:19:41.599 --> 02:19:44.599 Councelor D. 02:19:47.359 --> 02:19:50.359 No, I can't hear you. up on her. 02:19:54.240 --> 02:19:57.240 Why don't we go to the other speaker and 02:19:58.240 --> 02:20:01.240 let the guys go? 02:20:02.880 --> 02:20:05.576 Do you want to try again? Councelor Kim 02:20:05.600 --> 02:20:08.600 counselor Dunn. 02:20:08.800 --> 02:20:10.536 Is it Did that work? 02:20:10.560 --> 02:20:11.816 That did. 02:20:11.840 --> 02:20:14.840 Thank you. more then 02:20:15.120 --> 02:20:18.120 the one time I choose to talk to 02:20:19.359 --> 02:20:20.776 I just want to thank councelor 02:20:20.800 --> 02:20:23.800 Killian for bringing it forward. 02:20:23.840 --> 02:20:26.455 Um I actually would support the 02:20:26.479 --> 02:20:29.479 conservation but don't think the um car 02:20:30.160 --> 02:20:33.160 park and such should be necessary. 02:20:33.359 --> 02:20:34.936 If we're going to conserve it, it should 02:20:34.960 --> 02:20:37.736 be conserved as it is 02:20:37.760 --> 02:20:40.760 more so than adding manmade items. 02:20:45.200 --> 02:20:47.335 Mhm. That's it. 02:20:47.359 --> 02:20:50.359 Thank you. Um, councelor Crystalis, 02:20:51.120 --> 02:20:54.120 thank you for inviting me to speak. 02:20:54.800 --> 02:20:57.800 She was wanted to speak. Thank you. 02:20:57.840 --> 02:20:59.496 If there's no further speakers, I'll 02:20:59.520 --> 02:21:02.520 just have something to say. Um, 02:21:03.439 --> 02:21:05.576 this has been to council before. It came 02:21:05.600 --> 02:21:07.976 to the council and the previous council. 02:21:08.000 --> 02:21:10.375 Um and that's where um forestry and 02:21:10.399 --> 02:21:12.616 other people got involved. Um and if I 02:21:12.640 --> 02:21:14.295 recall correctly, the unions, the 02:21:14.319 --> 02:21:16.056 forestry unions even came and did a 02:21:16.080 --> 02:21:18.536 deputation at the council in relation to 02:21:18.560 --> 02:21:21.415 it. It's something that's not new um to 02:21:21.439 --> 02:21:24.136 council. I have a big problem with the 02:21:24.160 --> 02:21:27.016 notice of motion. Um I can't support it. 02:21:27.040 --> 02:21:29.415 I can't support it because nowhere in 02:21:29.439 --> 02:21:31.335 the notice of motion does it say we want 02:21:31.359 --> 02:21:34.295 them to stop the logging of Broomment. 02:21:34.319 --> 02:21:36.136 It says it in the background, but not in 02:21:36.160 --> 02:21:39.096 the notice of motion. So to me it's um a 02:21:39.120 --> 02:21:41.096 way of getting in the back door. That's 02:21:41.120 --> 02:21:43.896 my opinion to try and stop the logging 02:21:43.920 --> 02:21:46.920 in Broomman. The second thing is um we 02:21:47.200 --> 02:21:48.616 want to make this into a tourist 02:21:48.640 --> 02:21:50.856 attraction out there. Well, I don't know 02:21:50.880 --> 02:21:52.536 who's driven to Broomman lately, but 02:21:52.560 --> 02:21:54.455 trying to get to Broomman and get up 02:21:54.479 --> 02:21:57.479 some of these roads um is quite near 02:21:57.520 --> 02:22:00.520 impossible. I received regular 02:22:00.960 --> 02:22:03.960 correspondence from um Liza Butler the 02:22:04.240 --> 02:22:07.240 MP from complaints from c from residents 02:22:07.359 --> 02:22:09.576 out there about the way council's trying 02:22:09.600 --> 02:22:11.496 to manage the roads out there. So now 02:22:11.520 --> 02:22:14.520 we're wanting to do is increase tourism 02:22:14.960 --> 02:22:17.096 that are going out there as well. And I 02:22:17.120 --> 02:22:19.176 don't think they're BMWs and what do 02:22:19.200 --> 02:22:20.696 they tell us? The Porsches and stuff 02:22:20.720 --> 02:22:22.616 they come down here will actually make 02:22:22.640 --> 02:22:25.640 those roads. But one of my main points 02:22:25.840 --> 02:22:28.840 is is this tree has lived for over 500 02:22:30.479 --> 02:22:33.479 years and it's lived for 500 years 02:22:34.240 --> 02:22:37.176 because it's been left alone. The old 02:22:37.200 --> 02:22:39.335 loggers who logged those forests for 02:22:39.359 --> 02:22:42.359 over a hundred years knew that they left 02:22:42.560 --> 02:22:45.415 it. And I've spoken to families that are 02:22:45.439 --> 02:22:47.576 sixth generation 02:22:47.600 --> 02:22:49.176 logging families that come out of the 02:22:49.200 --> 02:22:52.200 Milton Alladala area and they tell me 02:22:52.880 --> 02:22:55.335 there was a reason it was never logged. 02:22:55.359 --> 02:22:57.256 And one of the reasons it's never logged 02:22:57.280 --> 02:23:00.280 is because these big old trees 02:23:00.399 --> 02:23:03.399 encourage the growth of the new trees. 02:23:03.680 --> 02:23:06.455 So they get better forestry wood. Now 02:23:06.479 --> 02:23:07.976 they've been dealing with it for over a 02:23:08.000 --> 02:23:10.056 hundred years. And I think that they 02:23:10.080 --> 02:23:11.576 would know and I'm thinking forestry 02:23:11.600 --> 02:23:13.496 came to see us. forestry would tell us 02:23:13.520 --> 02:23:16.520 that there is another big tree out there 02:23:16.720 --> 02:23:19.720 which is closer to the highway. Um, and 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:21.896 I talked to the locals. So, I'm talking 02:23:21.920 --> 02:23:23.656 about the local families who have been 02:23:23.680 --> 02:23:25.656 out there, lived there, logged out 02:23:25.680 --> 02:23:28.375 there, carried the bull bull trains, 02:23:28.399 --> 02:23:30.056 bulock trains through the place when 02:23:30.080 --> 02:23:33.080 they dragged the old logs out, etc. That 02:23:33.200 --> 02:23:35.976 tree has stopped growing. Do you know 02:23:36.000 --> 02:23:37.736 why it stopped growing? Cuz I always say 02:23:37.760 --> 02:23:39.816 to the oldtimers, why has the tree 02:23:39.840 --> 02:23:42.536 stopped growing? And they said because 02:23:42.560 --> 02:23:45.335 too many people went out and walked 02:23:45.359 --> 02:23:48.359 around it and disturbed its root um its 02:23:49.920 --> 02:23:52.295 root section, disturbed the nutrients 02:23:52.319 --> 02:23:54.776 around it that it lives on. And so 02:23:54.800 --> 02:23:57.800 that's dying. I've been horrified since 02:23:58.160 --> 02:24:01.160 2002, 2003 when this was first moved at 02:24:02.479 --> 02:24:05.256 council. The number of people I've seen 02:24:05.280 --> 02:24:07.496 on Facebook going out there running 02:24:07.520 --> 02:24:09.176 around it, climbing it, having their 02:24:09.200 --> 02:24:11.976 photos taken on it, that's not 02:24:12.000 --> 02:24:13.576 appropriate because that is going to 02:24:13.600 --> 02:24:15.576 kill the tree. So, if we want to 02:24:15.600 --> 02:24:17.176 preserve something and it's something 02:24:17.200 --> 02:24:19.335 that's been there for 500 years that we 02:24:19.359 --> 02:24:22.359 have not touched in 500 years, we just 02:24:23.840 --> 02:24:26.696 need to leave it alone. So I will not be 02:24:26.720 --> 02:24:29.096 supporting the recommendation. So with 02:24:29.120 --> 02:24:31.096 that write a reply. 02:24:31.120 --> 02:24:34.120 Thanks 02:24:35.439 --> 02:24:36.856 that are not accurate. And I want to 02:24:36.880 --> 02:24:38.136 start with one of the things you just 02:24:38.160 --> 02:24:41.160 said madame mayor. The logging will stop 02:24:41.439 --> 02:24:43.736 in Broomman State Forest. It will it 02:24:43.760 --> 02:24:46.136 will stop in the next few years. It is 02:24:46.160 --> 02:24:47.736 in the environmental protection 02:24:47.760 --> 02:24:50.760 legislation and it will have to stop. Um 02:24:50.880 --> 02:24:52.776 so this is not a backdoor thing. I would 02:24:52.800 --> 02:24:55.800 be very happy to include a front door 02:24:56.640 --> 02:24:58.455 suggestion, an extra point as an 02:24:58.479 --> 02:25:01.415 amendment that said that logging stopped 02:25:01.439 --> 02:25:04.216 straight away. It's very clear that if a 02:25:04.240 --> 02:25:07.240 if a flora conservation area is 02:25:08.080 --> 02:25:11.080 declared, logging will stop. In regard 02:25:11.520 --> 02:25:14.520 to the burden to council or anyone else, 02:25:15.840 --> 02:25:18.375 no burden to council, the burden to the 02:25:18.399 --> 02:25:20.856 state government around some light 02:25:20.880 --> 02:25:23.496 touch. We're not talking about a massive 02:25:23.520 --> 02:25:26.216 60 place parking area. We're talking 02:25:26.240 --> 02:25:28.696 about a few parking spaces. We're 02:25:28.720 --> 02:25:31.176 talking about 02:25:31.200 --> 02:25:34.200 signage and light touch tourism. The 02:25:34.319 --> 02:25:36.136 boardwalk will protect it from people 02:25:36.160 --> 02:25:38.056 walking around it. The numbers of people 02:25:38.080 --> 02:25:40.776 who go there are small and it is not 02:25:40.800 --> 02:25:42.776 dying or stopping growing because of 02:25:42.800 --> 02:25:44.856 that very clearly. 02:25:44.880 --> 02:25:46.536 Why don't we talk to forestry about 02:25:46.560 --> 02:25:49.560 this? Forestry have a history of being 02:25:50.000 --> 02:25:53.000 fined every time when when the public go 02:25:53.359 --> 02:25:55.335 into the forests and have a look at what 02:25:55.359 --> 02:25:57.976 forestry are doing and find that they 02:25:58.000 --> 02:25:59.816 don't record what they're supposed to 02:25:59.840 --> 02:26:02.776 record about about endangered species 02:26:02.800 --> 02:26:04.616 and find that they're logging in areas 02:26:04.640 --> 02:26:06.056 where they shouldn't be. They've been 02:26:06.080 --> 02:26:08.696 fined over and over again. Yes, it is 02:26:08.720 --> 02:26:11.576 their job to look after the forest. It 02:26:11.600 --> 02:26:14.295 is their job, but they break the rules 02:26:14.319 --> 02:26:16.696 all the time and they cost the taxpayers 02:26:16.720 --> 02:26:19.720 of this state upwards of $20 million a 02:26:20.080 --> 02:26:23.080 year. Now, that $20 million might be a 02:26:23.200 --> 02:26:25.335 good start to a bit of a boardwalk and I 02:26:25.359 --> 02:26:27.016 don't know, the boot wash might not be 02:26:27.040 --> 02:26:28.696 might not work all that well. I wondered 02:26:28.720 --> 02:26:30.375 about that, too. But it's what's being 02:26:30.399 --> 02:26:32.216 recommended. 02:26:32.240 --> 02:26:34.375 $20 million is a fair bit. That's across 02:26:34.399 --> 02:26:36.696 the state, so other forests will want 02:26:36.720 --> 02:26:38.455 some of it, too. But the logging will 02:26:38.479 --> 02:26:41.479 stop. It needs to stop. The families who 02:26:42.160 --> 02:26:44.216 have been dependent on this industry for 02:26:44.240 --> 02:26:47.240 so many years have been hard done by by 02:26:47.359 --> 02:26:48.936 their own unions and their own 02:26:48.960 --> 02:26:51.415 representatives who should who have 02:26:51.439 --> 02:26:54.056 known this is coming for 30 years and 02:26:54.080 --> 02:26:56.295 should have been helping to transition. 02:26:56.319 --> 02:26:59.016 And those families, many of them have 02:26:59.040 --> 02:27:01.576 the opportunity to be they're the people 02:27:01.600 --> 02:27:03.656 who know the forest and there are jobs 02:27:03.680 --> 02:27:06.616 in looking after that forest. And it it 02:27:06.640 --> 02:27:09.096 won't cost us $20 million a year to look 02:27:09.120 --> 02:27:12.120 after our 3,000 hectares. Yes, there 02:27:13.200 --> 02:27:15.096 will be restriction of some activities. 02:27:15.120 --> 02:27:16.536 And I feel sorry for the four-wheel 02:27:16.560 --> 02:27:19.096 drive club. I know that they hate the 02:27:19.120 --> 02:27:21.096 idea of this being shut out. The door, 02:27:21.120 --> 02:27:23.096 the gates won't be locked. People will 02:27:23.120 --> 02:27:25.576 be able to go in and go through this 02:27:25.600 --> 02:27:27.736 area, but four-wheel drivers are 02:27:27.760 --> 02:27:29.576 restricted from a lot of places. And 02:27:29.600 --> 02:27:30.936 even if you're light touch in a 02:27:30.960 --> 02:27:33.576 four-wheel drive, there are issues. And 02:27:33.600 --> 02:27:35.656 yes, I would imagine they will be locked 02:27:35.680 --> 02:27:37.976 out of such a reserve, but other the 02:27:38.000 --> 02:27:39.896 rest of the public won't. So it doesn't 02:27:39.920 --> 02:27:41.415 come into the calculations that 02:27:41.439 --> 02:27:44.439 councelor Steel raised about how much of 02:27:45.840 --> 02:27:48.840 our land is available and accessible. It 02:27:49.200 --> 02:27:51.896 is something. It's not just one tree. I 02:27:51.920 --> 02:27:54.136 made I made a mistake in the way that I 02:27:54.160 --> 02:27:56.856 represented it because this tree is 02:27:56.880 --> 02:27:59.880 iconic. This forest is a whole big 02:28:01.280 --> 02:28:04.280 living organism and it's our lungs and 02:28:04.560 --> 02:28:07.415 it's our future and it is something that 02:28:07.439 --> 02:28:10.439 we need to protect and we won't protect 02:28:10.640 --> 02:28:13.256 it by sitting quietly and letting the 02:28:13.280 --> 02:28:15.016 state government take as long as they 02:28:15.040 --> 02:28:17.496 like to fiddle around before they stop 02:28:17.520 --> 02:28:20.056 logging. So, I commend the motion to you 02:28:20.080 --> 02:28:22.536 and I still extend to any of you, 02:28:22.560 --> 02:28:25.560 however cynical you might be, a light 02:28:26.000 --> 02:28:29.000 touch visit in a small group will will 02:28:29.439 --> 02:28:32.439 um knock your socks off to Big Spot. 02:28:37.359 --> 02:28:39.816 Councelor Crystal, Councelor Norris, 02:28:39.840 --> 02:28:42.840 Councelor Boyd, Council Kian, Councelor 02:28:42.960 --> 02:28:45.496 Tribe. Those against? 02:28:45.520 --> 02:28:48.056 Councelor D. Oh, and councelor Dunn is 02:28:48.080 --> 02:28:50.536 for the recommendation. 02:28:50.560 --> 02:28:53.016 So those against will be councelor 02:28:53.040 --> 02:28:55.096 Clancy, councelor Casmiri, councelor 02:28:55.120 --> 02:28:57.176 Wilkins, councelor Proudford, councelor 02:28:57.200 --> 02:29:00.200 Steel, councelor Kemp, councelor White. 02:29:00.640 --> 02:29:03.640 Um I think that's carried. Am I correct? 02:29:05.760 --> 02:29:08.536 Oh, sorry. It was lost. Sorry, you lost 02:29:08.560 --> 02:29:11.560 the recommendation. Thank you. 02:29:12.479 --> 02:29:14.936 So we'll move on to the next item. CL 02:29:14.960 --> 02:29:17.816 26.45. 45 question on notice screening 02:29:17.840 --> 02:29:20.840 our city grant for 112 trees process and 02:29:22.080 --> 02:29:24.056 um implementation. It's a question on 02:29:24.080 --> 02:29:25.896 notice. It's been answered. So we'll 02:29:25.920 --> 02:29:28.920 move on to the the next um section of 02:29:29.680 --> 02:29:31.656 the paper which is the call over of the 02:29:31.680 --> 02:29:34.216 business paper. Um I'll just point out 02:29:34.240 --> 02:29:37.240 nobody called out any recommendations 02:29:37.600 --> 02:29:39.976 to speak on. There was nobody sent 02:29:40.000 --> 02:29:42.936 me. I've been asking you for months now 02:29:42.960 --> 02:29:44.216 to make sure you send in your 02:29:44.240 --> 02:29:47.096 recommendations from next we from next 02:29:47.120 --> 02:29:49.816 month if no nothing's called out to me 02:29:49.840 --> 02:29:51.736 so we can move forward I will just be 02:29:51.760 --> 02:29:53.976 moving the balance on on globo so 02:29:54.000 --> 02:29:57.000 tonight I'll call it out so we have C 02:29:58.000 --> 02:30:01.000 the CEO's um report CL 26.46 46 report 02:30:03.520 --> 02:30:05.656 back on notice of motion review of cost 02:30:05.680 --> 02:30:08.680 controls media spend. Council Killian 02:30:12.640 --> 02:30:15.640 CL 2647 Ilawar Shoalhaven joint 02:30:15.920 --> 02:30:18.536 organization. 02:30:18.560 --> 02:30:21.096 So I'm happy to move that. Oh, sorry. 02:30:21.120 --> 02:30:22.536 Councelor Steel, did you want to call 02:30:22.560 --> 02:30:25.560 that out? 02:30:26.160 --> 02:30:27.816 Can we put our hands up a bit quicker 02:30:27.840 --> 02:30:29.496 because I'm mindful of the time. It's 02:30:29.520 --> 02:30:32.520 past 8:00. , city performance CL 26.48 02:30:34.720 --> 02:30:36.776 report of the financial review panel 02:30:36.800 --> 02:30:39.800 10th of February. 02:30:39.840 --> 02:30:42.840 Councelor Proudfoot 02:30:45.680 --> 02:30:48.680 CL 26.49 02:30:48.960 --> 02:30:51.960 ongoing register of pecunary returns. 02:30:52.399 --> 02:30:54.136 Can I have a mover please? Councelor 02:30:54.160 --> 02:30:57.160 Norris seconded by councelor Boyd. So CL 02:30:57.280 --> 02:30:59.656 2649 02:30:59.680 --> 02:31:01.896 ongoing register of punary interest 02:31:01.920 --> 02:31:03.976 returns been moved and seconded. Anybody 02:31:04.000 --> 02:31:06.616 wishing to vote against? I declare that 02:31:06.640 --> 02:31:09.640 carried. 02:31:09.840 --> 02:31:12.840 So then we go to CL 26 50 appointment 02:31:14.880 --> 02:31:16.856 of the board of director for southern 02:31:16.880 --> 02:31:18.936 water services. Anybody wishing to speak 02:31:18.960 --> 02:31:21.736 on that? It's just a procedure. I'm 02:31:21.760 --> 02:31:24.295 happy to move it. Secer council Norris. 02:31:24.319 --> 02:31:26.616 So it's been moved and seconded. CL 02:31:26.640 --> 02:31:28.136 26.50 02:31:28.160 --> 02:31:29.656 appointment of the board of directors 02:31:29.680 --> 02:31:32.616 for Southern Water Services. Anybody 02:31:32.640 --> 02:31:34.776 wishing to vote against? I declare that 02:31:34.800 --> 02:31:37.800 carried unanimously. CL 26.51 02:31:38.640 --> 02:31:41.640 investment report February 26. 02:31:41.920 --> 02:31:44.920 Councelor Proudoot. 02:31:46.880 --> 02:31:49.880 Then we go to city services CL 26.52 02:31:52.319 --> 02:31:55.096 requests for plaques and memorials. 02:31:55.120 --> 02:31:57.976 Anybody wishing to call that out? No. Do 02:31:58.000 --> 02:32:00.776 I have a mover? Councelor Crystal, 02:32:00.800 --> 02:32:02.616 councelor Proudoot. Anybody wishing to 02:32:02.640 --> 02:32:05.640 vote against? I declare that carried. 02:32:06.000 --> 02:32:09.000 City development CL 2653 request for 02:32:09.760 --> 02:32:12.536 minor locality boundary adjustment 02:32:12.560 --> 02:32:15.560 between um out at Kalala Bay localities. 02:32:16.640 --> 02:32:18.696 So, councelor Tribe, you want to call 02:32:18.720 --> 02:32:21.720 that one out? 02:32:25.520 --> 02:32:27.576 CL 2654 02:32:27.600 --> 02:32:30.056 post ex exhibition report planning 02:32:30.080 --> 02:32:32.696 proposals PP079 02:32:32.720 --> 02:32:35.720 28 Bowen Street and 34 to 36 Hawk Street 02:32:36.319 --> 02:32:39.319 Huskerson Council Killian 02:32:42.800 --> 02:32:45.496 CL 25.55 02:32:45.520 --> 02:32:48.520 development applications DA 2025 stroke 02:32:49.520 --> 02:32:51.335 129 02:32:51.359 --> 02:32:54.136 25 Beach Street. 02:32:54.160 --> 02:32:57.160 Councelor Killian 02:32:58.160 --> 02:33:01.160 and CL 26.56 02:33:02.319 --> 02:33:05.319 development application DA251836 02:33:07.520 --> 02:33:10.520 B270 Princess Highway Jasper's Brush. 02:33:11.840 --> 02:33:14.616 So I have a mover and a second. Thanks. 02:33:14.640 --> 02:33:15.976 You want to call that out councelor 02:33:16.000 --> 02:33:19.000 Proudoot? 02:33:20.880 --> 02:33:23.880 So we move into Shoalhaven water. So CL 02:33:25.680 --> 02:33:28.216 26.57 Shoalhaven Water Drought 02:33:28.240 --> 02:33:31.240 Management Plan. 02:33:31.280 --> 02:33:32.616 You want to call that out councelor 02:33:32.640 --> 02:33:35.640 Steel? 02:33:39.200 --> 02:33:42.200 So then we go to Cal 26.58 02:33:42.319 --> 02:33:44.616 payment of Shoalhaven Water Dividend 02:33:44.640 --> 02:33:47.640 2425 financial year. 02:33:48.000 --> 02:33:49.576 So you're moving that seconded by 02:33:49.600 --> 02:33:52.600 councelor Clancy. So that is 26.58 02:33:55.200 --> 02:33:57.496 payment of Shoalhaven water dividend 24 02:33:57.520 --> 02:33:59.816 to 25 financial year results. Anybody 02:33:59.840 --> 02:34:02.136 wishing to vote against. 02:34:02.160 --> 02:34:04.056 So I declare that carried unanimously 02:34:04.080 --> 02:34:06.056 and thank Shoalhaven Water for the great 02:34:06.080 --> 02:34:09.080 job. Um we then go to Cal 2659 02:34:11.760 --> 02:34:14.295 transfer of Crown L Crown Roads to Shaw 02:34:14.319 --> 02:34:16.776 Haven City Council. So it's been moved 02:34:16.800 --> 02:34:18.455 by councelor Proudport, seconded by 02:34:18.479 --> 02:34:21.256 councelor Norris. So that is sealed 02:34:21.280 --> 02:34:23.096 26.59 02:34:23.120 --> 02:34:25.016 transfer of crown lands to Shoalhaven 02:34:25.040 --> 02:34:26.936 City Council. Anybody wishing to vote 02:34:26.960 --> 02:34:29.960 against? Going to declare that carried. 02:34:30.319 --> 02:34:33.319 Then we go to CL 26.50 02:34:33.840 --> 02:34:36.840 tenders for West Nar and Narill sewer 02:34:37.600 --> 02:34:39.176 and water project. Can I have a mover 02:34:39.200 --> 02:34:40.856 and second that's only moving into 02:34:40.880 --> 02:34:42.776 confidential? Moved by councelor 02:34:42.800 --> 02:34:44.295 Crystalard. Seconded by councelor 02:34:44.319 --> 02:34:46.375 Casmary. Anybody wishing to vote 02:34:46.399 --> 02:34:48.776 against? I declare that carried 02:34:48.800 --> 02:34:51.800 unanimously. And CL 26.51 02:34:52.399 --> 02:34:55.256 tenders for the call for applications 02:34:55.280 --> 02:34:57.976 approved supplies list recovery 02:34:58.000 --> 02:35:00.856 recovered materials. Moved by councelor 02:35:00.880 --> 02:35:03.880 Proudoot, seconded by councelor Casmirii. 02:35:04.000 --> 02:35:07.000 So that is C L 26.51 tenders call for 02:35:08.800 --> 02:35:11.656 applications approved suppliers list. 02:35:11.680 --> 02:35:14.680 Um, anybody wishing to vote against? 02:35:14.800 --> 02:35:17.096 declare as um that carried 02:35:17.120 --> 02:35:19.415 unanimously. So, councilors, I'll move 02:35:19.439 --> 02:35:21.016 back to the beginning of the paper, but 02:35:21.040 --> 02:35:22.856 I'm mindful of the time. We've only got 02:35:22.880 --> 02:35:25.880 45 minutes till 9:00. Um and I've been 02:35:26.319 --> 02:35:28.776 quite generous with the extension of 02:35:28.800 --> 02:35:31.335 times for all the notices of motion. Um 02:35:31.359 --> 02:35:33.496 so, if we can keep to the five minutes 02:35:33.520 --> 02:35:36.455 each speech, that would be um good. All 02:35:36.479 --> 02:35:39.479 right. So, we go back to 02:35:40.319 --> 02:35:43.319 um CL 26.4. 46 02:35:46.240 --> 02:35:48.776 report back notices of motion review 02:35:48.800 --> 02:35:50.856 of the cost controls for media spend. 02:35:50.880 --> 02:35:52.455 Council Killian. 02:35:52.479 --> 02:35:54.295 Thank you madam mayor. I look this is a 02:35:54.319 --> 02:35:57.319 very this will be very quick because in 02:35:57.680 --> 02:35:58.936 are you moving the recommendation? 02:35:58.960 --> 02:36:00.056 I'm sorry. Yes, I will move the 02:36:00.080 --> 02:36:00.536 recommendation. 02:36:00.560 --> 02:36:02.536 Do I have a second? Councelor 02:36:02.560 --> 02:36:05.496 Crystalitis. 02:36:05.520 --> 02:36:08.455 Um I I will be very quick. I 02:36:08.479 --> 02:36:11.016 particularly wanted to comment on this 02:36:11.040 --> 02:36:12.936 report because 02:36:12.960 --> 02:36:15.960 in relation to my comments before about 02:36:16.640 --> 02:36:19.176 things that are about cost-saving that 02:36:19.200 --> 02:36:20.776 aren't really about costsaving, I just 02:36:20.800 --> 02:36:22.776 wanted to congratulate council on this. 02:36:22.800 --> 02:36:25.016 This has obviously been a discovery of a 02:36:25.040 --> 02:36:28.040 change that had been missed um and we'd 02:36:28.800 --> 02:36:30.936 been spending more on advertising than 02:36:30.960 --> 02:36:33.415 we had to for a number of years. So, I I 02:36:33.439 --> 02:36:35.816 just wanted to comment that sometimes I 02:36:35.840 --> 02:36:38.776 feel like we're looking for savings or 02:36:38.800 --> 02:36:41.800 whipping of of past councils when we 02:36:42.000 --> 02:36:44.616 don't need to, but this is a win. So, 02:36:44.640 --> 02:36:46.776 that was all I wanted to say in regard. 02:36:46.800 --> 02:36:49.800 Anybody else? Councelor Kemp, 02:36:50.240 --> 02:36:53.176 congratulations to um you madame mayor, 02:36:53.200 --> 02:36:56.200 the CEO and the accounts team, etc. In 8 02:36:56.399 --> 02:36:59.399 months, we have saved 167,000. Just want 02:37:00.240 --> 02:37:02.295 to say congratulations. 02:37:02.319 --> 02:37:05.096 Thank you. Any further speakers? 02:37:05.120 --> 02:37:07.016 So with that, anybody wishing to vote 02:37:07.040 --> 02:37:09.176 against the recommendation? 02:37:09.200 --> 02:37:12.136 I declare that carried unanimously. 02:37:12.160 --> 02:37:14.776 We now go to Ilawir Shoalhaven Joint 02:37:14.800 --> 02:37:16.856 Organization New South Wales government 02:37:16.880 --> 02:37:19.880 review. Councelor Steel. 02:37:20.560 --> 02:37:22.536 Thank you, Madame Mayor. 02:37:22.560 --> 02:37:24.455 Um, 02:37:24.479 --> 02:37:27.176 are we paying $63,000 02:37:27.200 --> 02:37:30.136 per year to be an ISJO in order to help 02:37:30.160 --> 02:37:32.455 hold the door open for government 02:37:32.479 --> 02:37:34.455 ideologies at the expense of residents 02:37:34.479 --> 02:37:35.415 priorities? Not 02:37:35.439 --> 02:37:36.936 so just before you start, are you moving 02:37:36.960 --> 02:37:38.056 the recommendation? 02:37:38.080 --> 02:37:38.856 I am. 02:37:38.880 --> 02:37:41.880 Right. Seconder councelor Casmiri. 02:37:42.880 --> 02:37:44.136 Sorry, continue. 02:37:44.160 --> 02:37:46.375 Thank you. So how much benefit has the 02:37:46.399 --> 02:37:49.256 Shoalhaven as a region 02:37:49.280 --> 02:37:52.280 gained from the involvement in ISJO in 02:37:52.960 --> 02:37:54.375 comparison to how much we have had to 02:37:54.399 --> 02:37:56.536 concede in order not to be regarded by 02:37:56.560 --> 02:37:59.560 the OG to be at risk of non-compliance 02:38:00.240 --> 02:38:02.216 for example with regards to our building 02:38:02.240 --> 02:38:04.936 codes, housing strategies and traffic 02:38:04.960 --> 02:38:07.736 plans. 02:38:07.760 --> 02:38:09.335 How do those benefits counter the loss 02:38:09.359 --> 02:38:11.976 of autonomy for our own rate payers? If 02:38:12.000 --> 02:38:13.896 being a member of this organization, the 02:38:13.920 --> 02:38:15.656 trade-off is having to adopt housing and 02:38:15.680 --> 02:38:17.176 traffic strategies which are 02:38:17.200 --> 02:38:19.176 incompatible with the needs of the 02:38:19.200 --> 02:38:21.896 residents here in the Shoalhaven. 02:38:21.920 --> 02:38:23.976 Given the size of the Shoalhaven and the 02:38:24.000 --> 02:38:25.736 sway it has over state and federal 02:38:25.760 --> 02:38:28.136 political interests, how dependent do we 02:38:28.160 --> 02:38:31.160 need to remain on ISJO when you consider 02:38:31.359 --> 02:38:34.359 what our own staff, without ISJO's help, 02:38:34.960 --> 02:38:37.415 have managed to gain 02:38:37.439 --> 02:38:39.896 accomplishments like the $40 million 02:38:39.920 --> 02:38:41.736 grant funding for roads. just as one 02:38:41.760 --> 02:38:44.295 example or our new MURF which is looking 02:38:44.319 --> 02:38:46.056 to service not only the Shoalhaven but 02:38:46.080 --> 02:38:48.856 surrounding areas 02:38:48.880 --> 02:38:50.616 as the primary gateway to the south 02:38:50.640 --> 02:38:53.335 coast and a critical federal swing seat 02:38:53.359 --> 02:38:55.176 the Shoalhaven holds enough independent 02:38:55.200 --> 02:38:57.256 political leverage to deal directly with 02:38:57.280 --> 02:38:59.256 higher levels of government without 02:38:59.280 --> 02:39:01.496 paying for a regional middleman that 02:39:01.520 --> 02:39:03.736 could potentially prioritize other LGA's 02:39:03.760 --> 02:39:06.760 agendas over our own local autonomy. 02:39:08.479 --> 02:39:10.136 I'm not suggesting we pull out of the 02:39:10.160 --> 02:39:12.856 ISJO, but I am calling for us to look 02:39:12.880 --> 02:39:14.696 seriously at whether or not being a 02:39:14.720 --> 02:39:17.415 member of ISJO is actually working to 02:39:17.439 --> 02:39:19.256 prioritize our residents and rate 02:39:19.280 --> 02:39:21.096 payers. 02:39:21.120 --> 02:39:23.896 We have a local area again this figure 02:39:23.920 --> 02:39:26.056 of 4561 02:39:26.080 --> 02:39:29.080 km and a population of 110,000. 02:39:29.520 --> 02:39:31.816 Just MacArthur alone has a population of 02:39:31.840 --> 02:39:34.840 310,000 squeezed into an area only 2/3 02:39:35.520 --> 02:39:38.520 the size of the Shoalhaven. Do we want 02:39:38.640 --> 02:39:40.295 to put ourselves in a situation where we 02:39:40.319 --> 02:39:42.936 are bound to accept and impose on the 02:39:42.960 --> 02:39:44.856 community the same highdensity living 02:39:44.880 --> 02:39:47.880 structure necessary for this region as 02:39:48.399 --> 02:39:51.176 if we don't the OG would see that as a 02:39:51.200 --> 02:39:53.256 failure to align with the mandates to 02:39:53.280 --> 02:39:55.496 which we would have agreed 02:39:55.520 --> 02:39:57.896 also when the state government look at 02:39:57.920 --> 02:40:00.776 regional infrastructure how can we know 02:40:00.800 --> 02:40:02.776 they won't prioritize the road or 02:40:02.800 --> 02:40:05.096 Macarthur bypass over local Shoalhaven 02:40:05.120 --> 02:40:06.936 road repairs because the northern 02:40:06.960 --> 02:40:09.656 councils have five times voting power 02:40:09.680 --> 02:40:12.680 that we do here in the Shoalhaven. 02:40:14.000 --> 02:40:16.455 When we focus on our community as the 02:40:16.479 --> 02:40:18.295 priority rather than just being a part 02:40:18.319 --> 02:40:20.536 of a coalition with regions that face 02:40:20.560 --> 02:40:23.415 different challenges than ours, we're in 02:40:23.439 --> 02:40:25.016 the best possible position to serve the 02:40:25.040 --> 02:40:27.096 community as a priority. 02:40:27.120 --> 02:40:28.936 with what works for them and our 02:40:28.960 --> 02:40:31.016 region. 02:40:31.040 --> 02:40:33.016 That's all I have to say, Madame May. 02:40:33.040 --> 02:40:34.295 Thank you. Is there any further 02:40:34.319 --> 02:40:37.319 speakers? Council Norris. 02:40:38.479 --> 02:40:40.936 Thanks Mwatt. Um I really support the 02:40:40.960 --> 02:40:42.696 ISTO as it currently stands and I 02:40:42.720 --> 02:40:44.936 support the direction you know by 02:40:44.960 --> 02:40:47.176 going with the LG8 in that strategic 02:40:47.200 --> 02:40:49.736 partnership. The idea behind the LG8 as 02:40:49.760 --> 02:40:51.335 I was you know formally you know I 02:40:51.359 --> 02:40:53.656 attended in my role previously as 02:40:53.680 --> 02:40:56.056 assistant deputy mayor was really about 02:40:56.080 --> 02:40:58.616 moving the region forward and and 02:40:58.640 --> 02:41:01.016 that's really what the the benefit of 02:41:01.040 --> 02:41:03.256 that goal is. I I do take councelor 02:41:03.280 --> 02:41:05.256 Steel's point that you know we do have 02:41:05.280 --> 02:41:08.280 our own area to look after. but by 02:41:08.640 --> 02:41:11.016 being part of ISTJO it does mean that we 02:41:11.040 --> 02:41:13.576 can move the region together and we have 02:41:13.600 --> 02:41:15.335 a much more powerful voice be it in 02:41:15.359 --> 02:41:17.976 McCory Street or wherever because we 02:41:18.000 --> 02:41:21.000 have that more powerful region arm 02:41:21.120 --> 02:41:23.736 behind us of those LG councils. So I 02:41:23.760 --> 02:41:25.016 really support this report and I 02:41:25.040 --> 02:41:26.536 appreciate going forward. Thank you. 02:41:26.560 --> 02:41:29.560 Thank you councelor Clancy. 02:41:32.319 --> 02:41:35.319 Um I'm a current member of is a 02:41:36.399 --> 02:41:38.536 voting member for Shoalhaven City 02:41:38.560 --> 02:41:41.560 Council on the ISJO and I don't find 02:41:41.920 --> 02:41:44.920 it to be another layer of meetings. Um I 02:41:44.960 --> 02:41:46.936 find it to be a mechanism that's 02:41:46.960 --> 02:41:49.096 bringing councils together to solve Shaw 02:41:49.120 --> 02:41:51.656 Haven to solve 02:41:51.680 --> 02:41:54.536 shared problems at scale. Um through 02:41:54.560 --> 02:41:57.096 ISJO we've been working on things like 02:41:57.120 --> 02:42:00.120 um the Fogo contamination and 02:42:00.319 --> 02:42:03.319 capacity challenges. So um we've had 02:42:03.520 --> 02:42:06.056 input into the MURF operations because 02:42:06.080 --> 02:42:09.080 we've been able to share lessons 02:42:09.760 --> 02:42:12.760 learned with other LGAAS. We've also 02:42:13.439 --> 02:42:16.375 had input from other LGAAS on disaster 02:42:16.399 --> 02:42:19.016 resilience and national hazard planning, 02:42:19.040 --> 02:42:22.040 cyber and information security and um 02:42:22.479 --> 02:42:24.696 illegal dumping and biocurity. And those 02:42:24.720 --> 02:42:26.375 are just four things that I take 02:42:26.399 --> 02:42:28.216 personal interest in as a counselor that 02:42:28.240 --> 02:42:31.240 I can name off the top of my head. Um we 02:42:32.080 --> 02:42:35.080 learn from other councils um as by being 02:42:35.439 --> 02:42:38.439 a part of is Joe and we're sharing best 02:42:38.800 --> 02:42:41.736 practice. um we're stronger advocates 02:42:41.760 --> 02:42:44.760 for ourselves when we are surrounded 02:42:46.319 --> 02:42:48.375 by other councils who've been through 02:42:48.399 --> 02:42:50.616 similar um issues that we have been 02:42:50.640 --> 02:42:53.640 through. Um we are stronger in applying 02:42:53.760 --> 02:42:55.816 for grants which means that we have more 02:42:55.840 --> 02:42:58.295 access to funding by being a part of the 02:42:58.319 --> 02:43:01.319 isjo and you know we're more resilient 02:43:01.359 --> 02:43:04.359 as a region um and that is what benefits 02:43:05.200 --> 02:43:07.496 the Shoalhaven out of being a part of is 02:43:07.520 --> 02:43:10.520 Joe. Um the report confirms what we 02:43:10.800 --> 02:43:12.616 already know and that is that we are 02:43:12.640 --> 02:43:15.176 stronger when we work together. So I 02:43:15.200 --> 02:43:17.656 commend the report to council. 02:43:17.680 --> 02:43:19.816 Yeah. And before we move on, I'll just 02:43:19.840 --> 02:43:22.840 um talk about the LG8. So um the CEO and 02:43:24.560 --> 02:43:26.696 myself attended a meeting in Wllingong 02:43:26.720 --> 02:43:29.720 yesterday in relation to the LG8 um and 02:43:30.160 --> 02:43:33.096 they provided um a draft it's still in 02:43:33.120 --> 02:43:34.936 draft form strategic regional 02:43:34.960 --> 02:43:37.656 partnership where the eight councils 02:43:37.680 --> 02:43:40.680 were asked to list what their priorities 02:43:41.040 --> 02:43:43.576 were and we have our projects in this 02:43:43.600 --> 02:43:46.216 document as well. So what priorities are 02:43:46.240 --> 02:43:48.216 for the Shoalhaven but it's more than 02:43:48.240 --> 02:43:50.056 just the Shoalhaven. It's about how do 02:43:50.080 --> 02:43:53.080 we connect um to the new Western Sydney 02:43:53.279 --> 02:43:55.016 airport? And I know several of you have 02:43:55.040 --> 02:43:57.576 been on a tour out there. Um how do we 02:43:57.600 --> 02:43:59.496 connect? How do we connect to CRA? How 02:43:59.520 --> 02:44:01.976 do we connect with the other services? 02:44:02.000 --> 02:44:04.455 It's not only about um the road 02:44:04.479 --> 02:44:06.216 connections. It's about the road the 02:44:06.240 --> 02:44:08.776 rail connections where we're all working 02:44:08.800 --> 02:44:11.800 together. It's about the cruise terminal 02:44:11.920 --> 02:44:14.856 um selection to go to Wllingong um 02:44:14.880 --> 02:44:17.096 opposed to going to Newcastle. So 02:44:17.120 --> 02:44:19.656 there's lots of projects in here and how 02:44:19.680 --> 02:44:22.216 they can represent the region. We go in 02:44:22.240 --> 02:44:24.295 as a region, not in as individual 02:44:24.319 --> 02:44:26.936 councils. Um I'm happy to share this 02:44:26.960 --> 02:44:29.176 document. It's still in draft, but I'm 02:44:29.200 --> 02:44:31.656 happy for councilors to read it. So it's 02:44:31.680 --> 02:44:33.976 a big advocacy. It is an advocacy 02:44:34.000 --> 02:44:36.455 document, but instead of us going with 02:44:36.479 --> 02:44:38.295 our hands saying please can we have some 02:44:38.319 --> 02:44:41.319 money maybe for the roads or etc. This 02:44:42.160 --> 02:44:44.776 is a big picture for the whole region. 02:44:44.800 --> 02:44:47.656 It addresses health services, transport 02:44:47.680 --> 02:44:50.680 services, tourism. They want the the G8, 02:44:52.880 --> 02:44:54.856 as they're calling it, the good old 02:44:54.880 --> 02:44:57.176 LG8. They want us to become the 02:44:57.200 --> 02:45:00.200 adventure tourism capital of Australia, 02:45:01.120 --> 02:45:02.856 not just New South Wales. And they've 02:45:02.880 --> 02:45:05.016 got a whole strategy. That strategy is 02:45:05.040 --> 02:45:07.255 going to be started to be written um 02:45:07.279 --> 02:45:10.279 early next month. Um so we can actually 02:45:10.399 --> 02:45:12.455 get more economic development, more 02:45:12.479 --> 02:45:15.176 tourism, etc. but make sure that we've 02:45:15.200 --> 02:45:18.200 got the infrastructure to deliver the 02:45:18.640 --> 02:45:20.216 increase in tourism and economic 02:45:20.240 --> 02:45:22.616 benefits to the region. So, I'll be 02:45:22.640 --> 02:45:24.616 supporting the notice of motion. Oh, 02:45:24.640 --> 02:45:27.016 sorry, the recommendation um from the 02:45:27.040 --> 02:45:29.176 CEO. Would you like write a reply? 02:45:29.200 --> 02:45:32.200 Councelor Steel, 02:45:33.920 --> 02:45:35.576 like I said from the outset, Madame 02:45:35.600 --> 02:45:38.600 Mayor, I'm not suggesting that we 02:45:38.640 --> 02:45:40.216 pull out or anything like that. 02:45:40.240 --> 02:45:42.216 Obviously, we have to support the motion 02:45:42.240 --> 02:45:45.240 because we are in SJO and um I'm just 02:45:47.359 --> 02:45:50.056 asking that we have future consideration 02:45:50.080 --> 02:45:52.696 as to whether or not it is in our best 02:45:52.720 --> 02:45:53.896 interest or we could do better by 02:45:53.920 --> 02:45:54.856 ourselves. 02:45:54.880 --> 02:45:56.696 All right. So, with that, I'll put the 02:45:56.720 --> 02:45:58.375 recommendation. Anybody wishing to vote 02:45:58.399 --> 02:45:59.976 against? 02:46:00.000 --> 02:46:02.455 I declare that carried unanimously. So, 02:46:02.479 --> 02:46:05.255 we go to CL 26.48, 02:46:05.279 --> 02:46:07.335 report of the financial review panel, 02:46:07.359 --> 02:46:09.496 19th of February. Councelor Proudfoot, 02:46:09.520 --> 02:46:12.375 are you moving the recommendation? 02:46:12.399 --> 02:46:14.536 , Madame Chair, I'd like to ask a 02:46:14.560 --> 02:46:15.736 question to begin with. 02:46:15.760 --> 02:46:17.656 Yes, we can ask a question. 02:46:17.680 --> 02:46:19.496 Should I move the recommendation and 02:46:19.520 --> 02:46:22.056 should that be carried? 02:46:22.080 --> 02:46:25.080 Because this has in the past been a 02:46:25.680 --> 02:46:27.656 cause of concern to some councils. Does 02:46:27.680 --> 02:46:30.680 that mean that council acts on all of 02:46:31.279 --> 02:46:34.279 the resolutions carried by 02:46:34.399 --> 02:46:37.335 the review panel? because the the 02:46:37.359 --> 02:46:39.976 recommendation says that council receive 02:46:40.000 --> 02:46:41.736 and note the minutes of the financial 02:46:41.760 --> 02:46:43.016 review panel. I want to know what 02:46:43.040 --> 02:46:46.040 happens to the decisions that are made 02:46:47.200 --> 02:46:49.496 because at one meeting we were told that 02:46:49.520 --> 02:46:51.896 we couldn't alter the decision which I 02:46:51.920 --> 02:46:54.375 believe was the wrong statement by 02:46:54.399 --> 02:46:56.375 that person. So I'm seeking 02:46:56.399 --> 02:46:59.399 clarification as to if we carry the 02:46:59.520 --> 02:47:02.216 recommendation what happens 02:47:02.240 --> 02:47:04.536 CEO. well first of all it's an 02:47:04.560 --> 02:47:05.816 adoption of the minutes and as part of 02:47:05.840 --> 02:47:08.216 that an adoption of the recommendations 02:47:08.240 --> 02:47:10.455 that were put at the finance review 02:47:10.479 --> 02:47:13.479 panel. Um I would note that um the last 02:47:13.840 --> 02:47:15.415 meeting I think there was 11 of the 13 02:47:15.439 --> 02:47:18.056 councils were who were in attendance. Um 02:47:18.080 --> 02:47:20.375 but again if there's a specific question 02:47:20.399 --> 02:47:23.096 about any recommendation happy to take 02:47:23.120 --> 02:47:24.216 it. 02:47:24.240 --> 02:47:27.096 No what I'm saying that if if we if we 02:47:27.120 --> 02:47:28.856 vote for this recommendation will the 02:47:28.880 --> 02:47:30.856 recommendations that are in the minutes 02:47:30.880 --> 02:47:33.335 be acted upon and that 02:47:33.359 --> 02:47:34.776 And that will be carried. 02:47:34.800 --> 02:47:35.736 Yes. 02:47:35.760 --> 02:47:37.255 The next question is if we want to 02:47:37.279 --> 02:47:38.696 change those recommendation, we were 02:47:38.720 --> 02:47:40.536 told at a previous meeting that we 02:47:40.560 --> 02:47:42.536 couldn't. 02:47:42.560 --> 02:47:45.496 Is does that still stand? If we don't 02:47:45.520 --> 02:47:47.255 like a recommendation moved by the 02:47:47.279 --> 02:47:48.936 review panel, can we change it? 02:47:48.960 --> 02:47:50.616 No, it's the recommendation of the 02:47:50.640 --> 02:47:52.216 review panel which gets adopted through 02:47:52.240 --> 02:47:53.896 the the minutes. So 02:47:53.920 --> 02:47:55.576 we can refer it back to that. 02:47:55.600 --> 02:47:57.896 You can refer it back to you can refer a 02:47:57.920 --> 02:47:59.016 matter back to the 02:47:59.040 --> 02:48:02.040 finance committee. finance committee but 02:48:03.120 --> 02:48:04.616 well I'm not happy with that to start 02:48:04.640 --> 02:48:07.176 with. So 02:48:07.200 --> 02:48:10.200 madam chair I'll talk about the u 02:48:10.560 --> 02:48:13.016 the part there where the the Shoalhaven 02:48:13.040 --> 02:48:15.335 entertainment center was discussed. 02:48:15.359 --> 02:48:17.496 So can I just get a mover and seconder 02:48:17.520 --> 02:48:19.415 for first of all then we can make an 02:48:19.439 --> 02:48:21.736 amendment to the recommendation. So I'm 02:48:21.760 --> 02:48:23.255 happy to move it. Is there a second? 02:48:23.279 --> 02:48:25.656 Councelor Clancy is happy to second it. 02:48:25.680 --> 02:48:27.976 So yep they can talk to it. 02:48:28.000 --> 02:48:31.000 Thanks madam chair. On page 27, the 02:48:31.200 --> 02:48:33.736 financial review panel recommend that 02:48:33.760 --> 02:48:36.455 council place the SEC expression of 02:48:36.479 --> 02:48:38.216 interest on hold to prioritize key 02:48:38.240 --> 02:48:40.856 strategic planning work and to identify 02:48:40.880 --> 02:48:42.776 strategic and financial benefits of 02:48:42.800 --> 02:48:44.856 colllocating complimentary council 02:48:44.880 --> 02:48:47.736 services within the SEC. 02:48:47.760 --> 02:48:50.760 Now I'm completely opposed to that. This 02:48:50.880 --> 02:48:53.736 this is an entertainment center. And if 02:48:53.760 --> 02:48:56.760 we go back to 2008 02:48:56.800 --> 02:48:59.335 when the what was meant to have happened 02:48:59.359 --> 02:49:01.576 was the entertainment center was meant 02:49:01.600 --> 02:49:03.335 to be supported by an accommodation 02:49:03.359 --> 02:49:04.936 hotel 02:49:04.960 --> 02:49:07.960 to the north of this center. 02:49:08.000 --> 02:49:11.000 It became politicized at the time and 02:49:11.279 --> 02:49:13.255 did not eventuate and it became a witch 02:49:13.279 --> 02:49:15.896 hunt attempting to get hold of one 02:49:15.920 --> 02:49:18.295 council to discredit them. But in the 02:49:18.319 --> 02:49:20.776 end we lost that advantage. We we lost 02:49:20.800 --> 02:49:23.736 what was potentially the way that the 02:49:23.760 --> 02:49:25.656 entertainment center would have been 02:49:25.680 --> 02:49:28.536 feasible, would have been sustainable 02:49:28.560 --> 02:49:30.136 where people could come along from 02:49:30.160 --> 02:49:31.976 outside the area, from within the area 02:49:32.000 --> 02:49:35.000 and stay overnight or for a few days, 02:49:35.200 --> 02:49:37.816 enjoy the the magnificent city of 02:49:37.840 --> 02:49:40.616 Nara, enjoy the what the river has to 02:49:40.640 --> 02:49:42.536 offer, enjoy the entertainment center, 02:49:42.560 --> 02:49:44.696 entertainment, 02:49:44.720 --> 02:49:46.936 and the whole thing would stack up. Now, 02:49:46.960 --> 02:49:49.335 that's not being discussed. We're 02:49:49.359 --> 02:49:51.415 talking about colllocating 02:49:51.439 --> 02:49:53.576 which is just another way of retreating 02:49:53.600 --> 02:49:56.375 from what we're doing completely change 02:49:56.399 --> 02:49:57.896 the business plan of the entertainment 02:49:57.920 --> 02:50:00.216 center which would be an absolute 02:50:00.240 --> 02:50:02.375 disaster in my view. So I I can't 02:50:02.399 --> 02:50:04.776 support what the finance committee came 02:50:04.800 --> 02:50:06.536 up with there. I think we've got to 02:50:06.560 --> 02:50:08.696 think outside the square a bit and be 02:50:08.720 --> 02:50:11.720 more visionary than be close our minds 02:50:12.240 --> 02:50:13.816 to thing and start bringing libraries 02:50:13.840 --> 02:50:16.056 and whatever else comes into the center. 02:50:16.080 --> 02:50:17.896 Sorry. 02:50:17.920 --> 02:50:20.920 So I would like to include 02:50:21.439 --> 02:50:24.439 in that recommendation and and it may 02:50:24.560 --> 02:50:26.936 well be I'm not allowed to but I believe 02:50:26.960 --> 02:50:28.536 that the advice is not correct but I 02:50:28.560 --> 02:50:29.896 believe we can change we can change any 02:50:29.920 --> 02:50:31.496 recommendation on our business paper so 02:50:31.520 --> 02:50:32.616 why can't we change the one in the 02:50:32.640 --> 02:50:35.016 finance battle we're forever changing 02:50:35.040 --> 02:50:36.936 recommendations. 02:50:36.960 --> 02:50:38.375 I think that's the incorrect answer and 02:50:38.399 --> 02:50:41.096 I challenge that what that answer was 02:50:41.120 --> 02:50:43.896 the assumption that was supported that 02:50:43.920 --> 02:50:46.920 that answer to the question. So I so 02:50:47.680 --> 02:50:49.656 I would definitely want to make sure the 02:50:49.680 --> 02:50:52.536 investigation for an accommodation hotel 02:50:52.560 --> 02:50:53.816 on the northern side of this 02:50:53.840 --> 02:50:56.616 entertainment center. Now it it may well 02:50:56.640 --> 02:50:59.496 be that that would include something to 02:50:59.520 --> 02:51:02.520 the council chambers itself, council 02:51:02.720 --> 02:51:05.415 office blocks and whatever else to 02:51:05.439 --> 02:51:08.056 actually do something very creative and 02:51:08.080 --> 02:51:10.616 so that the whole thing works. 02:51:10.640 --> 02:51:13.176 come up with some sort of a vision to me 02:51:13.200 --> 02:51:16.200 to colllocate and try and save a few 02:51:16.880 --> 02:51:18.776 dollars and hopefully break is not 02:51:18.800 --> 02:51:21.576 vision. So I'm totally opposed to that. 02:51:21.600 --> 02:51:24.600 So I'll go to Miss McMahon. Do you wish 02:51:25.359 --> 02:51:27.976 to speak 02:51:28.000 --> 02:51:30.536 through you madame mayor just to um a 02:51:30.560 --> 02:51:33.016 little clarity around this the there are 02:51:33.040 --> 02:51:34.936 limited delegations given to the 02:51:34.960 --> 02:51:36.936 financial review panel in the terms of 02:51:36.960 --> 02:51:39.096 reference. The minutes that you have in 02:51:39.120 --> 02:51:41.736 front of them will have a combination of 02:51:41.760 --> 02:51:44.760 resolutions or resolved items and 02:51:45.439 --> 02:51:48.439 recommended items. So for clarity, those 02:51:48.720 --> 02:51:50.936 items within the minutes which say 02:51:50.960 --> 02:51:53.335 they're a recommendation, there is 02:51:53.359 --> 02:51:56.359 opportunity for the council to um seek 02:51:56.640 --> 02:51:59.016 to amend those recommendations. It's 02:51:59.040 --> 02:52:01.576 those resolved ones within the minutes 02:52:01.600 --> 02:52:03.335 are those that the council that the 02:52:03.359 --> 02:52:05.496 committee has enacted themselves under 02:52:05.520 --> 02:52:08.056 the limited delegations that they're 02:52:08.080 --> 02:52:10.536 receiving. So the council does have the 02:52:10.560 --> 02:52:13.560 opportunity to direct the financial 02:52:13.600 --> 02:52:16.056 review panel. Perhaps um an appropriate 02:52:16.080 --> 02:52:18.776 way would be to ask them to reconsider 02:52:18.800 --> 02:52:21.255 with additional information um any 02:52:21.279 --> 02:52:24.279 additional items that they wish to 02:52:24.399 --> 02:52:25.016 consider. 02:52:25.040 --> 02:52:26.696 Well, thank you for that answer. So I 02:52:26.720 --> 02:52:29.720 therefore on page 27 02:52:31.840 --> 02:52:34.536 the recommendation 02:52:34.560 --> 02:52:36.536 65% of the way down the page the 02:52:36.560 --> 02:52:39.255 financial review panel recommend that 02:52:39.279 --> 02:52:42.279 place the SECI on hold to prioritize key 02:52:42.479 --> 02:52:45.479 strategic planning work 02:52:46.640 --> 02:52:49.016 including the establishment of an 02:52:49.040 --> 02:52:52.040 accommodent accommodation hotel 02:52:53.040 --> 02:52:55.096 and then and to identify the strategic 02:52:55.120 --> 02:52:56.295 and financial benefit terms of 02:52:56.319 --> 02:52:58.295 colllocating complimentary council 02:52:58.319 --> 02:53:01.319 services within the SEC. 02:53:01.680 --> 02:53:04.680 So following the word planning work 02:53:05.200 --> 02:53:07.656 including 02:53:07.680 --> 02:53:09.096 the the establishment of an 02:53:09.120 --> 02:53:12.056 accommodation hotel 02:53:12.080 --> 02:53:13.576 immediately to the north of the 02:53:13.600 --> 02:53:16.600 entertainment center. 02:53:17.600 --> 02:53:20.216 Director Buckman 02:53:20.240 --> 02:53:21.736 Director Buckman would you like to make 02:53:21.760 --> 02:53:23.176 a comment? 02:53:23.200 --> 02:53:25.576 I can add some additional comments. Um 02:53:25.600 --> 02:53:27.415 so the recommendations that were put to 02:53:27.439 --> 02:53:29.176 the finance committee option one and two 02:53:29.200 --> 02:53:30.616 for consideration were prepared by 02:53:30.640 --> 02:53:33.176 staff. So a business paper was reported 02:53:33.200 --> 02:53:35.496 to that committee and the the basis of 02:53:35.520 --> 02:53:37.496 not proceeding with the EOI is exactly 02:53:37.520 --> 02:53:38.776 what you're referring to councelor 02:53:38.800 --> 02:53:40.295 proudfoot is that there's a number of 02:53:40.319 --> 02:53:42.056 straight stateled strategic planning 02:53:42.080 --> 02:53:43.576 activity that's happening obviously with 02:53:43.600 --> 02:53:46.295 the riverfront um and plans for what 02:53:46.319 --> 02:53:47.896 we're trying to do to revitalize the 02:53:47.920 --> 02:53:50.920 narrow CBD. Um there's already the 02:53:51.040 --> 02:53:52.375 narrow riverfront obviously the 02:53:52.399 --> 02:53:54.136 activation project and so we thought it 02:53:54.160 --> 02:53:55.736 was prudent that we didn't proceed with 02:53:55.760 --> 02:53:57.816 an EOI knowing that all that other 02:53:57.840 --> 02:53:59.415 strategic work the leap is being 02:53:59.439 --> 02:54:01.976 reviewed um as well. So we know that's 02:54:02.000 --> 02:54:03.576 happening over the next 12 months. So we 02:54:03.600 --> 02:54:04.856 didn't think it was responsible to go 02:54:04.880 --> 02:54:07.880 out for an EOI at the moment um the the 02:54:08.560 --> 02:54:11.560 um opportunities for the land around the 02:54:12.560 --> 02:54:14.375 entertainment center that's part of that 02:54:14.399 --> 02:54:16.375 broader strategic planning review that 02:54:16.399 --> 02:54:18.455 we're already doing. So that information 02:54:18.479 --> 02:54:20.216 was in the business paper put to the 02:54:20.240 --> 02:54:22.616 finance review panel um and it would be 02:54:22.640 --> 02:54:24.216 part of the broader work that we are 02:54:24.240 --> 02:54:27.240 already doing over the next 12 months. 02:54:28.960 --> 02:54:31.960 Well thank thanks for that answer but 02:54:32.399 --> 02:54:34.856 I I still wanted included the 02:54:34.880 --> 02:54:37.880 investigation of an accommodation hotel 02:54:38.000 --> 02:54:39.255 to support the activities of the 02:54:39.279 --> 02:54:41.255 entertainment center. 02:54:41.279 --> 02:54:44.279 Now, I want to formally move that as 02:54:47.279 --> 02:54:49.576 as an amendment to what we see in the 02:54:49.600 --> 02:54:51.736 business paper. 02:54:51.760 --> 02:54:54.136 We can walk and chew gum. We could we we 02:54:54.160 --> 02:54:56.136 really can and we we can go out and see 02:54:56.160 --> 02:54:57.736 what the industry says about it and we 02:54:57.760 --> 02:55:00.760 can try and attract providers for a four 02:55:01.279 --> 02:55:04.216 and a half fivestar hotel 02:55:04.240 --> 02:55:05.496 and that's what that's what this city 02:55:05.520 --> 02:55:08.520 deserves and that then the whole thing 02:55:08.560 --> 02:55:11.096 will stack up. We had the figures before 02:55:11.120 --> 02:55:13.016 and and the council walked away from it. 02:55:13.040 --> 02:55:15.576 It was quite pathetic back in 2008 to 02:55:15.600 --> 02:55:18.136 12, I can tell you. 02:55:18.160 --> 02:55:20.536 So, I'll go to the CEO. So can I just 02:55:20.560 --> 02:55:22.455 reiterate council you'd be pleased to 02:55:22.479 --> 02:55:24.136 know that internally we're looking at 02:55:24.160 --> 02:55:25.976 all of our strategic property assets 02:55:26.000 --> 02:55:28.136 including the fact that under the master 02:55:28.160 --> 02:55:30.295 plan of the riverfront that the state 02:55:30.319 --> 02:55:32.216 government has made a recommendation to 02:55:32.240 --> 02:55:35.240 reszone the precinct including the site 02:55:35.520 --> 02:55:38.520 to which you allude to a height of 44 m. 02:55:39.680 --> 02:55:42.136 Um and my preference as we're 02:55:42.160 --> 02:55:43.896 discussing internally is exactly in line 02:55:43.920 --> 02:55:46.920 with your thinking. if we can go to 02:55:47.279 --> 02:55:50.279 an EOI which seeks accommodation a 02:55:50.720 --> 02:55:52.856 short-term accommodation 02:55:52.880 --> 02:55:55.880 um and you know look at specifically 02:55:55.920 --> 02:55:58.136 hotels that's exactly what we want to do 02:55:58.160 --> 02:55:59.656 we are looking through the budget 02:55:59.680 --> 02:56:01.255 workshop which we've announced for all 02:56:01.279 --> 02:56:04.279 of you on Friday to get your exact input 02:56:04.319 --> 02:56:07.319 into finance year 2627 for this very 02:56:08.080 --> 02:56:11.080 purpose and and it's not just that site 02:56:11.200 --> 02:56:13.896 there's other sites across the road um 02:56:13.920 --> 02:56:15.656 again where we've got to make some 02:56:15.680 --> 02:56:17.976 decisions. You were right at the recent 02:56:18.000 --> 02:56:20.616 meeting to um make clear the fiscal 02:56:20.640 --> 02:56:22.616 challenges before the rate bar and some 02:56:22.640 --> 02:56:25.016 of the tough calls that need to be 02:56:25.040 --> 02:56:27.016 made. One of those things which we want 02:56:27.040 --> 02:56:28.696 to do the homework on before we come 02:56:28.720 --> 02:56:31.096 back to you is look at ways in which we 02:56:31.120 --> 02:56:34.120 can better run our civic assets because 02:56:34.479 --> 02:56:36.056 we all know obviously the significant 02:56:36.080 --> 02:56:37.896 challenges that exist with the circuit 02:56:37.920 --> 02:56:40.536 and the pressures that that it's been 02:56:40.560 --> 02:56:42.776 under to see if there is a better way 02:56:42.800 --> 02:56:44.455 forward. We're getting a lot of interest 02:56:44.479 --> 02:56:47.096 in how we start to turn narrow CBD 02:56:47.120 --> 02:56:48.856 around. One of the concerns that I have 02:56:48.880 --> 02:56:50.375 in relation to the master planning that 02:56:50.399 --> 02:56:52.455 the state government has undertaken with 02:56:52.479 --> 02:56:54.616 900 apartments proposed between here and 02:56:54.640 --> 02:56:57.640 the hospital redevelopment is what does 02:56:57.680 --> 02:57:00.680 that mean for NAR's CBD the heart of NAR 02:57:01.279 --> 02:57:03.415 in terms of its future growth and future 02:57:03.439 --> 02:57:05.656 opportunity. And part of that which will 02:57:05.680 --> 02:57:07.415 be caught up in the leap review is 02:57:07.439 --> 02:57:09.496 looking at mixeduse zoning so that we 02:57:09.520 --> 02:57:11.656 could potentially look at residential 02:57:11.680 --> 02:57:14.536 in the center of narrow CBD. Now we do 02:57:14.560 --> 02:57:16.136 have some old buildings there. We've got 02:57:16.160 --> 02:57:17.415 a lot of property that has been 02:57:17.439 --> 02:57:19.976 landbanked over many years and we're at 02:57:20.000 --> 02:57:21.335 the point now where the development 02:57:21.359 --> 02:57:23.576 industry wants to come along and look at 02:57:23.600 --> 02:57:25.096 the opportunities for the future of 02:57:25.120 --> 02:57:28.120 Nara. So that's why you know the 02:57:28.319 --> 02:57:30.216 staff recommendation was put so that we 02:57:30.240 --> 02:57:32.295 could do our homework and then obviously 02:57:32.319 --> 02:57:34.295 any such decision which you're alluding 02:57:34.319 --> 02:57:37.096 to would have to be brought before you 02:57:37.120 --> 02:57:40.120 as a council. 02:57:40.240 --> 02:57:42.696 I'll push on. I thank you for your 02:57:42.720 --> 02:57:44.536 answer. 02:57:44.560 --> 02:57:46.216 I want to include in black and white 02:57:46.240 --> 02:57:48.536 that we're going to investigate 02:57:48.560 --> 02:57:50.616 the option of an accommodation hotel 02:57:50.640 --> 02:57:51.816 immediately to the north of the 02:57:51.840 --> 02:57:53.976 entertainment center in order to make 02:57:54.000 --> 02:57:56.375 the entertainers entertainment center 02:57:56.399 --> 02:57:58.455 sustainable. I want to see it written 02:57:58.479 --> 02:58:01.415 down so that so we know it's on it's on 02:58:01.439 --> 02:58:04.439 the agenda. It's on the horizon. 02:58:04.560 --> 02:58:06.696 Otherwise, some of these things 02:58:06.720 --> 02:58:09.656 sometimes get lost and we don't want it 02:58:09.680 --> 02:58:11.896 to be lost. We've already sacrificed an 02:58:11.920 --> 02:58:14.216 opportunity all those years ago and now 02:58:14.240 --> 02:58:15.656 we're in the predicament that we're now 02:58:15.680 --> 02:58:17.656 in and we got up it at the time and 02:58:17.680 --> 02:58:20.375 several of us did to argue the case and 02:58:20.399 --> 02:58:23.096 unfortunately we got railroaded not by 02:58:23.120 --> 02:58:25.576 staff I have something to add 02:58:25.600 --> 02:58:27.335 politically 02:58:27.359 --> 02:58:28.936 and I don't want to see it happen again. 02:58:28.960 --> 02:58:29.415 Yeah, 02:58:29.439 --> 02:58:31.576 I'm happy to include it. Council 02:58:31.600 --> 02:58:34.136 Clansancy. 02:58:34.160 --> 02:58:37.160 Thank you madam chair. Thank you. 02:58:37.279 --> 02:58:40.216 So, any further discussion? 02:58:40.240 --> 02:58:42.136 No further discussion. Anybody wishing 02:58:42.160 --> 02:58:45.160 to vote against? 02:58:45.200 --> 02:58:48.200 Oh, I already put the vote. So, um, 02:58:48.399 --> 02:58:50.136 anybody wishing to vote against? 02:58:50.160 --> 02:58:52.536 Councelor Crystalis and Council Norris. 02:58:52.560 --> 02:58:54.616 The balance vote in favor. I declare it 02:58:54.640 --> 02:58:56.536 carried. 02:58:56.560 --> 02:58:59.560 We did that one. We did that one. So, we 02:59:00.560 --> 02:59:03.560 go to CL 26.51, Investment Report, 02:59:03.840 --> 02:59:06.840 February 26. Councelor Proudford. 02:59:07.680 --> 02:59:09.016 So it's been moved by councelor 02:59:09.040 --> 02:59:11.335 Proudford, seconded by councelor Casmiri. 02:59:11.359 --> 02:59:13.816 Anybody wishing to vote against? I 02:59:13.840 --> 02:59:16.840 declare that carried. 02:59:19.760 --> 02:59:22.760 The parks and memorials has been done. 02:59:22.880 --> 02:59:25.016 So 26 02:59:25.040 --> 02:59:28.040 53 we're up to. Yep. So minor boundary 02:59:29.359 --> 02:59:32.359 adjustments. councelor tribe. I've 02:59:32.720 --> 02:59:34.616 just pulled it out to vote against yet. 02:59:34.640 --> 02:59:36.136 All right. So, I'm happy to move it. Do 02:59:36.160 --> 02:59:37.736 I have a seconder? 02:59:37.760 --> 02:59:40.295 So, seconded by Council Proudoot. Are 02:59:40.319 --> 02:59:42.776 those wishing to vote against? So, 02:59:42.800 --> 02:59:45.096 Council Crystal, Council Kian, and 02:59:45.120 --> 02:59:46.856 Council Tribe, the balance vote in 02:59:46.880 --> 02:59:49.880 favor. Um, I declare that carried. 02:59:53.040 --> 02:59:56.040 We then go to post exhibition report 02:59:56.880 --> 02:59:59.880 planning proposal CL 2654 03:00:00.319 --> 03:00:03.255 28 Bowen Street and 34 to 38 Hawk Street 03:00:03.279 --> 03:00:05.736 Huskerson Council Killian I believe you 03:00:05.760 --> 03:00:08.760 called this one out. 03:00:10.319 --> 03:00:13.319 You're going to move the report. 03:00:14.160 --> 03:00:16.216 Ah, that's all right. So it's um I'm 03:00:16.240 --> 03:00:17.736 happy to move the report. Do I have a 03:00:17.760 --> 03:00:19.816 second to Council Norris? Anybody 03:00:19.840 --> 03:00:22.840 wishing to speak? You do, council tribe. 03:00:27.040 --> 03:00:29.976 Um, thank you, Madame May. Look, I I I 03:00:30.000 --> 03:00:31.656 guess when I initially read the report, 03:00:31.680 --> 03:00:34.536 I was inclined to support it. , but 03:00:34.560 --> 03:00:37.415 when I reviewed the attachment and the 03:00:37.439 --> 03:00:39.415 submissions from the community, I I 03:00:39.439 --> 03:00:42.439 found myself relooking at this. Um, I 03:00:42.479 --> 03:00:44.056 don't think a 4 and a half meter 03:00:44.080 --> 03:00:46.136 difference is minor. As the 03:00:46.160 --> 03:00:47.656 mathematician next to me has pointed 03:00:47.680 --> 03:00:50.680 out, it's a 60% increase. some of the 03:00:51.439 --> 03:00:53.335 submissions talked about, yes, there may 03:00:53.359 --> 03:00:55.335 be 13 meter buildings in other parts of 03:00:55.359 --> 03:00:56.776 Huskerson, but in that particular 03:00:56.800 --> 03:00:59.176 street, which I know very well, they are 03:00:59.200 --> 03:01:01.496 predominantly singlestory, double story 03:01:01.520 --> 03:01:03.176 at the most. So there are those 03:01:03.200 --> 03:01:05.176 overshadowing concerns and I know that 03:01:05.200 --> 03:01:07.415 that's the answer has been well, we can 03:01:07.439 --> 03:01:09.415 look at that in a DA stage. But as has 03:01:09.439 --> 03:01:11.016 been pointing out pointed out to us 03:01:11.040 --> 03:01:13.896 before that becomes very adversarial at 03:01:13.920 --> 03:01:15.976 the DA point and it's appropriate to 03:01:16.000 --> 03:01:17.736 have those conversations at a planning 03:01:17.760 --> 03:01:20.760 proposal level. Um I do have to go with 03:01:21.520 --> 03:01:23.415 the the residents on this one. I think 03:01:23.439 --> 03:01:25.576 all of us would like to see a makeover 03:01:25.600 --> 03:01:27.576 of the site and we'd like to see more 03:01:27.600 --> 03:01:30.295 accommodation offering um but just not 03:01:30.319 --> 03:01:32.696 at such a significant increase. 03:01:32.720 --> 03:01:35.720 Thank you. Any further discussion? 03:01:35.920 --> 03:01:37.656 No further discussion. Oh, sorry. 03:01:37.680 --> 03:01:38.696 Councelor Proudoot. 03:01:38.720 --> 03:01:40.455 Yeah, thanks Madam Chair. I certainly 03:01:40.479 --> 03:01:43.479 support the the recommendation by 03:01:44.160 --> 03:01:47.160 staff. I believe that the 7.5 height 03:01:49.040 --> 03:01:50.776 was an anomaly at the time. 03:01:50.800 --> 03:01:51.496 Mhm. 03:01:51.520 --> 03:01:53.976 And so even though it is a a large 03:01:54.000 --> 03:01:57.000 percentage increase up to 12 m 03:01:59.600 --> 03:02:01.255 you'd hardly call it high-rise, put it 03:02:01.279 --> 03:02:03.096 that way. And this is a transition that 03:02:03.120 --> 03:02:05.656 Huskerson will undertake. It's a 03:02:05.680 --> 03:02:07.255 transition that Huskinson will go 03:02:07.279 --> 03:02:09.415 through. Some of the most beautiful 03:02:09.439 --> 03:02:11.335 buildings in Huskerson now are the are 03:02:11.359 --> 03:02:13.255 the newest ones. You get down there 03:02:13.279 --> 03:02:16.279 along Husken Beach. magnificent 03:02:16.720 --> 03:02:19.720 buildings with with with great views of 03:02:20.479 --> 03:02:23.479 Jervis Bay with 03:02:23.600 --> 03:02:26.600 wonderful colors, well landscaped, 03:02:27.040 --> 03:02:29.335 very appealing. And that's what 03:02:29.359 --> 03:02:32.359 Huskerson is is undergoing a transition. 03:02:32.880 --> 03:02:35.736 A lot of the older properties are 03:02:35.760 --> 03:02:38.616 are really old and basically falling 03:02:38.640 --> 03:02:39.976 down, you'd say, 03:02:40.000 --> 03:02:41.976 and they're being replaced by by newer 03:02:42.000 --> 03:02:44.536 properties, not 10 and 15 story 03:02:44.560 --> 03:02:45.176 buildings. 03:02:45.200 --> 03:02:45.976 No, 03:02:46.000 --> 03:02:47.656 two, three, and four story buildings. 03:02:47.680 --> 03:02:49.576 And that's entirely appropriate for 03:02:49.600 --> 03:02:52.600 Huskerson. It'll it'll never be a city 03:02:53.439 --> 03:02:56.375 like the way that now will transition. 03:02:56.399 --> 03:02:58.856 It It won't be that. It'll simply be a a 03:02:58.880 --> 03:03:01.016 wonderful place to live and a fabulous 03:03:01.040 --> 03:03:03.896 tourist destination with the the old 03:03:03.920 --> 03:03:06.216 making way for the new and we have to 03:03:06.240 --> 03:03:09.096 get with the times and 12 m well you can 03:03:09.120 --> 03:03:11.176 throw a tennis ball over 12 m building 03:03:11.200 --> 03:03:13.976 so it's it's not that high that it's 03:03:14.000 --> 03:03:16.216 entirely suitable it's it'll sit in 03:03:16.240 --> 03:03:18.136 neatly with in the environment with 03:03:18.160 --> 03:03:21.160 landscaping with plantings 03:03:21.760 --> 03:03:23.976 with more trees and that sort of thing 03:03:24.000 --> 03:03:27.000 entirely appropriate manager 03:03:27.040 --> 03:03:29.976 Any further speakers? Councelor Crystal. 03:03:30.000 --> 03:03:31.656 Just very, very briefly, I'm in support 03:03:31.680 --> 03:03:33.736 of this one. Um, Madame May, you and I 03:03:33.760 --> 03:03:35.415 had a meeting with the Husky Business 03:03:35.439 --> 03:03:38.136 Chamber a while back. Um, and we 03:03:38.160 --> 03:03:39.656 actually spoke to the owner of that 03:03:39.680 --> 03:03:40.776 property. We spoke to the business 03:03:40.800 --> 03:03:42.616 chamber and the problems around Husken 03:03:42.640 --> 03:03:44.616 at the moment regarding accommodation. 03:03:44.640 --> 03:03:46.136 Um this is one of the properties we 03:03:46.160 --> 03:03:48.056 discussed without a doubt and this 03:03:48.080 --> 03:03:50.776 development has their support for the 03:03:50.800 --> 03:03:53.656 nature of the as council proud said the 03:03:53.680 --> 03:03:55.576 future transformation of Huskerson. So 03:03:55.600 --> 03:03:57.656 it's a big deal and that's why we're 03:03:57.680 --> 03:03:58.136 supporting. 03:03:58.160 --> 03:04:01.160 Thank you councel Casmary. 03:04:02.640 --> 03:04:04.136 Madame 03:04:04.160 --> 03:04:07.160 I obviously I do support this strongly 03:04:07.359 --> 03:04:09.896 primarily because I agree with 03:04:09.920 --> 03:04:12.295 councelor Preford that it's a 03:04:12.319 --> 03:04:13.896 transition. 03:04:13.920 --> 03:04:15.816 This is the beginning of the new 03:04:15.840 --> 03:04:17.576 Huskinson. 03:04:17.600 --> 03:04:19.816 Huskinson is no longer a fishing 03:04:19.840 --> 03:04:22.616 village. We got to get over that. And 03:04:22.640 --> 03:04:24.936 this is an opportunity to something 03:04:24.960 --> 03:04:27.736 amazing to provide more accommodation 03:04:27.760 --> 03:04:30.760 and reduce the use of ARBMs in Vincent 03:04:32.080 --> 03:04:33.576 Hodkinson. Thank you. 03:04:33.600 --> 03:04:35.335 Thank you. Is there any further 03:04:35.359 --> 03:04:37.255 speakers? 03:04:37.279 --> 03:04:39.415 If there's no further speakers, anybody 03:04:39.439 --> 03:04:41.656 wishing to vote against? 03:04:41.680 --> 03:04:43.976 So councelor Killian councelor tribe the 03:04:44.000 --> 03:04:45.816 balance vote in favor I declare that 03:04:45.840 --> 03:04:48.840 carried. We then move on to the next one 03:04:50.800 --> 03:04:53.800 which is seal 2655 development 03:04:54.319 --> 03:04:57.319 application DA 2025 stroke20925 03:04:59.439 --> 03:05:02.439 beach street Vincentia. So council 03:05:02.880 --> 03:05:04.936 Killian you called this one out. 03:05:04.960 --> 03:05:07.496 I'm not sure whether I want to um move 03:05:07.520 --> 03:05:09.415 the motion. I have a question. 03:05:09.439 --> 03:05:11.576 Oh you can ask a question first. 03:05:11.600 --> 03:05:14.600 Um, so I I want to ask this looks to me 03:05:16.399 --> 03:05:18.616 like a a precedent that's going to 03:05:18.640 --> 03:05:21.640 change our leap conditions because it's 03:05:22.399 --> 03:05:25.399 well outside of what is allowed under 03:05:25.680 --> 03:05:28.136 them and we're saying that's okay. Now, 03:05:28.160 --> 03:05:30.295 I'm not entirely convinced that that's a 03:05:30.319 --> 03:05:33.319 bad thing in as much as um, you know, it 03:05:33.840 --> 03:05:36.840 appears that there is room and it's a 03:05:36.960 --> 03:05:38.776 good design that they're going to put on 03:05:38.800 --> 03:05:41.800 this block. But do we make these changes 03:05:42.000 --> 03:05:44.776 by stealth accidentally or you know has 03:05:44.800 --> 03:05:46.536 council properly considered this because 03:05:46.560 --> 03:05:48.616 I'm assuming that once this is done once 03:05:48.640 --> 03:05:51.415 on this side size water anywhere across 03:05:51.439 --> 03:05:53.976 the city people would be applying for 03:05:54.000 --> 03:05:56.216 the same thing. Yeah, 03:05:56.240 --> 03:05:57.496 question. 03:05:57.520 --> 03:06:00.136 Um I suppose for the first piece I don't 03:06:00.160 --> 03:06:02.936 believe that this is um I suppose 03:06:02.960 --> 03:06:05.255 changes to LP by stealth. I think this 03:06:05.279 --> 03:06:08.279 is very much in the variation space. 03:06:08.800 --> 03:06:10.856 and then I suppose to the second 03:06:10.880 --> 03:06:13.335 component I I think there's some really 03:06:13.359 --> 03:06:15.255 good merit and that's the point of of 03:06:15.279 --> 03:06:17.096 the assessment process that there is 03:06:17.120 --> 03:06:18.696 about considering these things in 03:06:18.720 --> 03:06:20.216 balance and the merit that this brings 03:06:20.240 --> 03:06:23.240 with good design. 03:06:26.560 --> 03:06:28.295 So this is a Are you happy with that 03:06:28.319 --> 03:06:29.896 counselor? 03:06:29.920 --> 03:06:32.856 Yes. Can I ask another question? I mean 03:06:32.880 --> 03:06:35.880 are are we likely is this you're saying 03:06:36.399 --> 03:06:39.399 then um director that this is a case by 03:06:40.240 --> 03:06:41.576 case thing and we're not likely to have 03:06:41.600 --> 03:06:43.335 a lot of other 03:06:43.359 --> 03:06:45.736 other um requests like this or are you 03:06:45.760 --> 03:06:48.295 saying that if people put good quality 03:06:48.319 --> 03:06:51.016 design in they'll get the same sort of 03:06:51.040 --> 03:06:53.496 thing? I I didn't mean by stealth either 03:06:53.520 --> 03:06:55.176 that it was sneaky. I'm sorry about 03:06:55.200 --> 03:06:57.016 that. That wasn't intended to be the 03:06:57.040 --> 03:06:58.856 implication. It was just like by 03:06:58.880 --> 03:07:00.936 accident you allow one thing and then 03:07:00.960 --> 03:07:02.696 you get everything else. 03:07:02.720 --> 03:07:04.856 Yeah. No, so it's definitely a by merit 03:07:04.880 --> 03:07:07.335 assessment. I think it's also to do 03:07:07.359 --> 03:07:09.656 with a quantum of variation. So how far 03:07:09.680 --> 03:07:11.896 are we trying to push this change 03:07:11.920 --> 03:07:14.536 outside of what the requirements are? 03:07:14.560 --> 03:07:17.016 This this one's not particularly large 03:07:17.040 --> 03:07:19.976 variation. So again on merit, what are 03:07:20.000 --> 03:07:22.056 the pros and cons in this space? Are 03:07:22.080 --> 03:07:24.616 there some really great design wins? And 03:07:24.640 --> 03:07:26.616 um are we talking, you know, a 03:07:26.640 --> 03:07:29.016 significant outside of the box kind of 03:07:29.040 --> 03:07:31.496 thing or we we talking about quite a a 03:07:31.520 --> 03:07:34.455 small variation? And so it's within that 03:07:34.479 --> 03:07:36.536 um following the merit assessment. So it 03:07:36.560 --> 03:07:38.295 still is, you know, through the full 03:07:38.319 --> 03:07:39.496 assessment process and that's 03:07:39.520 --> 03:07:41.896 consistent, but it does take into 03:07:41.920 --> 03:07:43.736 account how how big of a difference are 03:07:43.760 --> 03:07:45.976 we make are we asking for here. 03:07:46.000 --> 03:07:46.375 Yeah. 03:07:46.399 --> 03:07:47.896 Thank you. On that basis, I'm prepared 03:07:47.920 --> 03:07:48.696 to move it. 03:07:48.720 --> 03:07:49.576 You're happy to move it? 03:07:49.600 --> 03:07:50.216 Yeah. 03:07:50.240 --> 03:07:52.136 Council Chris, you're happy to second 03:07:52.160 --> 03:07:52.776 it. 03:07:52.800 --> 03:07:53.656 Mhm. 03:07:53.680 --> 03:07:56.056 Any further speakers or questions? If 03:07:56.080 --> 03:07:57.496 not, I'll put the recommendation. 03:07:57.520 --> 03:07:59.816 Anybody wishing to vote against? I'll 03:07:59.840 --> 03:08:02.295 declare that carried unanimously. 03:08:02.319 --> 03:08:05.319 We now go to CL 2656, 03:08:06.240 --> 03:08:09.240 development application, DA21836, 03:08:10.640 --> 03:08:13.176 Princess Highway, Councelor Proudoot. 03:08:13.200 --> 03:08:15.816 thanks, Madam Chair. I move that we 03:08:15.840 --> 03:08:18.840 approve this application 03:08:19.279 --> 03:08:21.736 and without if I can get a second or 03:08:21.760 --> 03:08:22.856 I'll speak to it. 03:08:22.880 --> 03:08:24.776 Yeah. Seconder 03:08:24.800 --> 03:08:25.496 without 03:08:25.520 --> 03:08:28.520 so councelor Clancy seconding it 03:08:28.800 --> 03:08:31.656 without laboring the point. The 03:08:31.680 --> 03:08:33.656 the evidence that I consider to be 03:08:33.680 --> 03:08:35.736 compelling is in the attachments from 03:08:35.760 --> 03:08:38.760 page 187 right through. I read this 03:08:39.920 --> 03:08:42.920 several times and when I first 03:08:43.120 --> 03:08:45.096 started out I was looking for a way to 03:08:45.120 --> 03:08:47.096 support the refusal and I have to say 03:08:47.120 --> 03:08:49.896 when I by the time I read this several 03:08:49.920 --> 03:08:52.920 times I was convinced that we should 03:08:53.120 --> 03:08:56.120 approve it and it it goes right through 03:08:58.800 --> 03:09:00.936 talks about environmental reasons why 03:09:00.960 --> 03:09:03.960 this can be approved. There are also 03:09:04.080 --> 03:09:05.736 sight specific and environmental grants 03:09:05.760 --> 03:09:07.496 that justify the proposed variation of 03:09:07.520 --> 03:09:10.520 the minimum 40 hectare lot size. 03:09:12.319 --> 03:09:15.319 there's also the I think it's pronounced 03:09:16.080 --> 03:09:19.080 web key or not key webbby. I think 03:09:19.200 --> 03:09:22.056 that's the the precedent that is quoted 03:09:22.080 --> 03:09:23.896 during the body of this report but in 03:09:23.920 --> 03:09:25.656 particular quoted 03:09:25.680 --> 03:09:28.616 on page 194 03:09:28.640 --> 03:09:31.640 where it talks about a five-part test 03:09:31.760 --> 03:09:34.760 for consent authorities to consider and 03:09:34.800 --> 03:09:36.856 further down it notes that Preston CJ 03:09:36.880 --> 03:09:38.696 notes that the above five tests are not 03:09:38.720 --> 03:09:41.496 exhaustive of the ways in which an 03:09:41.520 --> 03:09:42.696 applicant might demonstrate that 03:09:42.720 --> 03:09:44.216 compliance with a development standard 03:09:44.240 --> 03:09:47.096 is unreasonable or unnecessary. 03:09:47.120 --> 03:09:48.536 They are merely the most commonly 03:09:48.560 --> 03:09:51.560 invoked ways. And Preston CJ states, "An 03:09:52.319 --> 03:09:54.455 applicant does not need to establish all 03:09:54.479 --> 03:09:56.455 of the ways. It may be sufficient to 03:09:56.479 --> 03:09:59.016 establish one way, although if more than 03:09:59.040 --> 03:10:01.576 one is applicable, an applicant can 03:10:01.600 --> 03:10:03.096 demonstrate that compliance of 03:10:03.120 --> 03:10:05.415 unreasonable or unnecessary in more than 03:10:05.439 --> 03:10:08.439 one way. That's just a some of the 03:10:09.439 --> 03:10:11.976 information and and and the precedence 03:10:12.000 --> 03:10:14.936 that that I base my decision on. I 03:10:14.960 --> 03:10:17.960 believe it's not risky to to approve 03:10:18.399 --> 03:10:21.335 this development. I believe it it is 03:10:21.359 --> 03:10:23.736 so councelor proud can I just stop you 03:10:23.760 --> 03:10:24.455 there? Y 03:10:24.479 --> 03:10:27.176 if you the recommendation is for refusal 03:10:27.200 --> 03:10:30.200 if you wish to move approval you have to 03:10:30.479 --> 03:10:32.776 state the reasons why in the 03:10:32.800 --> 03:10:34.936 recommendation that you want to do the 03:10:34.960 --> 03:10:37.255 approval. Well, that's what I I thought. 03:10:37.279 --> 03:10:39.016 So, we we might just go back so the 03:10:39.040 --> 03:10:40.696 minute taker can take down the points 03:10:40.720 --> 03:10:42.056 that you said 03:10:42.080 --> 03:10:45.080 the precedence set from page 187 right 03:10:45.920 --> 03:10:48.920 through to page 208. but in particular 03:10:49.760 --> 03:10:52.760 the environmental considerations and 03:10:52.960 --> 03:10:55.255 there's a whole section on the 03:10:55.279 --> 03:10:57.576 environmental considerations and also 03:10:57.600 --> 03:11:00.600 when it goes back to that fivepoint test 03:11:01.840 --> 03:11:04.216 I think it's pronounced 03:11:04.240 --> 03:11:07.240 webby or anyway it's web hbe 03:11:08.479 --> 03:11:11.479 Preston provided a five-part test which 03:11:13.680 --> 03:11:16.680 focused on it focused on the um 03:11:17.760 --> 03:11:19.496 the demonstration that compliance with 03:11:19.520 --> 03:11:21.335 the developed standard is is 03:11:21.359 --> 03:11:23.576 unreasonable or unnecessary. They are 03:11:23.600 --> 03:11:26.600 merely the most commonly invoked ways. 03:11:27.200 --> 03:11:30.200 That is the reason that I I gleaned from 03:11:30.560 --> 03:11:33.560 pages 187 to 208. 03:11:34.720 --> 03:11:37.176 All right. So are you I'm just getting 03:11:37.200 --> 03:11:40.200 the attachments. Are you then I believe 03:11:40.640 --> 03:11:43.640 in the attachments there is 03:11:43.840 --> 03:11:46.136 um the approval with there is 03:11:46.160 --> 03:11:48.375 application with for the approval with 03:11:48.399 --> 03:11:51.016 all the conditions etc in it. So you 03:11:51.040 --> 03:11:53.016 moving that as per the attachment. 03:11:53.040 --> 03:11:56.040 I am 03:11:57.040 --> 03:12:00.040 so I'll just go to the director Strauss. 03:12:01.200 --> 03:12:02.936 Are are you happy with the grounds that 03:12:02.960 --> 03:12:05.415 councelor Proudford have moved or do we 03:12:05.439 --> 03:12:08.375 need to put more in? I would just point 03:12:08.399 --> 03:12:10.776 out that that case law that the um was 03:12:10.800 --> 03:12:12.455 used as an example is in the middle of 03:12:12.479 --> 03:12:13.496 Sydney, 03:12:13.520 --> 03:12:13.896 right? 03:12:13.920 --> 03:12:14.616 Yeah. 03:12:14.640 --> 03:12:17.176 Yep. Couldn't hear that last bit. Sorry. 03:12:17.200 --> 03:12:18.616 Oh, sorry. I'm just pointing out that 03:12:18.640 --> 03:12:20.936 that was in the middle of Sydney. Was it 03:12:20.960 --> 03:12:23.016 people um council 03:12:23.040 --> 03:12:23.896 that case law? 03:12:23.920 --> 03:12:25.255 That case law. 03:12:25.279 --> 03:12:27.576 Yeah, I'm aware of that. But it 03:12:27.600 --> 03:12:30.136 certainly can be applied here as well in 03:12:30.160 --> 03:12:33.160 terms of the the precedent set and the 03:12:33.200 --> 03:12:36.136 and the logic that flows from those 03:12:36.160 --> 03:12:37.736 precedents. 03:12:37.760 --> 03:12:40.760 in in terms of what is unreasonable. 03:12:41.439 --> 03:12:43.496 All right. 03:12:43.520 --> 03:12:46.520 So, um I will go to councelor tribe. 03:12:50.240 --> 03:12:52.455 Thank you, madame mayor. I um 03:12:52.479 --> 03:12:53.176 just 03:12:53.200 --> 03:12:55.896 took a similar journey. I initially 03:12:55.920 --> 03:12:58.776 thought that I would um support the 03:12:58.800 --> 03:13:01.335 recommendation which was to not approve 03:13:01.359 --> 03:13:03.976 this but in reading the attachments and 03:13:04.000 --> 03:13:06.776 hearing from the deputy 03:13:06.800 --> 03:13:09.800 I actually have less of a problem 03:13:10.560 --> 03:13:12.776 with it. It it sounds as though the 03:13:12.800 --> 03:13:15.096 agricultural land won't be fragmented 03:13:15.120 --> 03:13:18.056 that it's already a a cleared site near 03:13:18.080 --> 03:13:20.375 a near a dwelling that the right of way 03:13:20.399 --> 03:13:22.536 can be overcome. 03:13:22.560 --> 03:13:25.560 and that there is a merit base 03:13:28.560 --> 03:13:31.335 to this variation and and precedent that 03:13:31.359 --> 03:13:34.359 was quoted as well on sharp versus 03:13:35.200 --> 03:13:38.056 climate municipal council. as much as 03:13:38.080 --> 03:13:41.080 I dislike the um the veiled threat of 03:13:42.960 --> 03:13:45.415 land and environment court proceedings, 03:13:45.439 --> 03:13:47.976 it it did seem to meet the merit 03:13:48.000 --> 03:13:51.000 test. So, um I'm inclined to to 03:13:51.439 --> 03:13:54.056 support the motion that's being put as 03:13:54.080 --> 03:13:55.656 opposed to that printed. 03:13:55.680 --> 03:13:57.656 Thank you, Council Clancy. 03:13:57.680 --> 03:14:00.680 Sorry, I apologize. I misunderstood. I 03:14:00.800 --> 03:14:03.800 was um only going to second if the 03:14:04.000 --> 03:14:06.455 recommendation was going to be um 03:14:06.479 --> 03:14:09.016 recommended and approved. So, I'm I'm 03:14:09.040 --> 03:14:10.856 here for 03:14:10.880 --> 03:14:13.415 So, can I have a seconder for councelor 03:14:13.439 --> 03:14:16.295 Proudfoots? Councelor Wilkins. That's 03:14:16.319 --> 03:14:17.816 fine. Thank you. Do you want to speak to 03:14:17.840 --> 03:14:20.536 it, Councelor Clancy? 03:14:20.560 --> 03:14:21.096 No. 03:14:21.120 --> 03:14:24.120 All right. Councelor Norris, 03:14:24.720 --> 03:14:26.856 thank you. I would like to foreshadow 03:14:26.880 --> 03:14:29.096 the motion as printed in the paper by 03:14:29.120 --> 03:14:32.120 staff. Thank you, 03:14:32.479 --> 03:14:35.479 Councelor Wilkins. 03:14:36.000 --> 03:14:39.000 Yes. I'd like to support councelor 03:14:39.040 --> 03:14:42.040 proudfoot's um change or 03:14:43.279 --> 03:14:46.279 recommendation and as articulated by 03:14:46.399 --> 03:14:49.399 councelor tribe as well I did go through 03:14:49.439 --> 03:14:52.439 it's very a very 03:14:52.720 --> 03:14:54.295 um 03:14:54.319 --> 03:14:56.295 a long and involved document on both 03:14:56.319 --> 03:14:59.176 sides u both the both the council staff 03:14:59.200 --> 03:15:00.856 have done an incredible job and so is 03:15:00.880 --> 03:15:03.176 the applicant but as far as I can make 03:15:03.200 --> 03:15:06.200 out it's crystallized outside the 40 03:15:08.319 --> 03:15:10.536 hectare development standard 03:15:10.560 --> 03:15:12.455 classification 03:15:12.479 --> 03:15:14.536 by 03:15:14.560 --> 03:15:17.560 speculation that the agricultural use 03:15:17.840 --> 03:15:20.536 of the land will be compromised where 03:15:20.560 --> 03:15:22.215 there is really no evidence for that. 03:15:22.239 --> 03:15:25.176 It's only speculation. The 03:15:25.200 --> 03:15:26.936 applicant has in fact said the proposed 03:15:26.960 --> 03:15:28.536 dwelling is to be clustered with the 03:15:28.560 --> 03:15:30.696 existing buildings on the site and as 03:15:30.720 --> 03:15:32.295 such will have minimal impact on the 03:15:32.319 --> 03:15:35.319 ongoing agricultural use of the site. be 03:15:35.520 --> 03:15:38.520 it the approved or future uses. And then 03:15:39.439 --> 03:15:40.936 they go on to say furthermore having 03:15:40.960 --> 03:15:43.255 regarded the aims of the LEP and the 03:15:43.279 --> 03:15:46.279 objectives of the RU1 zone, it is 03:15:46.399 --> 03:15:47.976 considered that the proposal will 03:15:48.000 --> 03:15:50.936 maintain the rural landscape character 03:15:50.960 --> 03:15:52.936 of the locality. So it's really going to 03:15:52.960 --> 03:15:55.496 have as I think council tribe 03:15:55.520 --> 03:15:58.520 articulated in part no impact on on 03:15:59.040 --> 03:16:01.896 the visuals or on the agricultural use 03:16:01.920 --> 03:16:04.136 of the land. But I think the housing 03:16:04.160 --> 03:16:06.856 section of it only is going to occupy 1 03:16:06.880 --> 03:16:09.736 and a half hectares maximum and the 03:16:09.760 --> 03:16:12.760 the land itself is 23 .25 hectares. 03:16:14.399 --> 03:16:16.856 So that's minimal and you you'd 03:16:16.880 --> 03:16:19.880 really have to take um the applicant 03:16:19.920 --> 03:16:22.696 at at their word there rather than with 03:16:22.720 --> 03:16:24.936 no evidence speculate that it's going to 03:16:24.960 --> 03:16:27.960 be diminished as an agricultural 03:16:28.239 --> 03:16:29.816 block. 03:16:29.840 --> 03:16:32.840 Thank you, councelor Crystalitis. 03:16:32.960 --> 03:16:35.016 Um, first first up, madame mayor, if I 03:16:35.040 --> 03:16:37.255 may, the just some questions about 03:16:37.279 --> 03:16:38.856 the code of meeting practice which 03:16:38.880 --> 03:16:41.016 states that if we're doing this not 03:16:41.040 --> 03:16:43.496 making a planning decision which or 03:16:43.520 --> 03:16:44.776 doing something which essentially 03:16:44.800 --> 03:16:46.375 contradicts a staff the staff 03:16:46.399 --> 03:16:47.976 recommendation, 03:16:48.000 --> 03:16:50.536 you've listed the reasons. 03:16:50.560 --> 03:16:52.455 Is the list of um who voted for and 03:16:52.479 --> 03:16:54.136 against enough to keep a register of who 03:16:54.160 --> 03:16:57.160 voted for what against the staff? 03:16:57.760 --> 03:16:59.496 Well, there will there will be a 03:16:59.520 --> 03:17:01.656 registered kept about who voted for and 03:17:01.680 --> 03:17:02.295 against. 03:17:02.319 --> 03:17:03.496 Wonderful. Thank you very much. That's 03:17:03.520 --> 03:17:05.016 all right. Just making sure we're 03:17:05.040 --> 03:17:06.856 complying. It's all all new stuff here. 03:17:06.880 --> 03:17:09.736 So, that's wonderful. Um I'm voting I 03:17:09.760 --> 03:17:12.760 I was initially um I think I expressed 03:17:12.960 --> 03:17:15.176 it outside to someone out after the 03:17:15.200 --> 03:17:17.736 deputations that normally I'd be saying, 03:17:17.760 --> 03:17:19.576 "Yeah, build your house. That's great." 03:17:19.600 --> 03:17:21.576 But there's there's one specific part 03:17:21.600 --> 03:17:22.856 part of this that really gets me and 03:17:22.880 --> 03:17:24.455 there, you know, it was listed before a 03:17:24.479 --> 03:17:26.295 whole bunch of other things. I trust 03:17:26.319 --> 03:17:28.295 your staff members. I trust all you guys 03:17:28.319 --> 03:17:30.215 completely in as far as your assessments 03:17:30.239 --> 03:17:31.255 and your knowledge of the law. You're 03:17:31.279 --> 03:17:33.896 far better at it than I am. Um, however, 03:17:33.920 --> 03:17:35.896 this this one here, the site is accessed 03:17:35.920 --> 03:17:38.856 informally informally via an existing 03:17:38.880 --> 03:17:41.816 driveway over the adjoining lot 2011 03:17:41.840 --> 03:17:43.816 from the Princess Highway. There's a 03:17:43.840 --> 03:17:46.840 registered right away over that property 03:17:47.200 --> 03:17:49.335 um from the Princess Highway that is no 03:17:49.359 --> 03:17:51.016 longer functional as a result of the 03:17:51.040 --> 03:17:52.856 Princess Highway bypass upgrade and a 03:17:52.880 --> 03:17:54.536 number of buildings have been erected 03:17:54.560 --> 03:17:57.560 over and obstruct this RO right away. So 03:17:57.760 --> 03:17:58.856 you can't actually drive through a 03:17:58.880 --> 03:18:00.536 building to get to this property. So 03:18:00.560 --> 03:18:02.776 there's no access to this place. So 03:18:02.800 --> 03:18:04.536 there you can't even they couldn't even 03:18:04.560 --> 03:18:06.616 put trucks in there to drive the stuff 03:18:06.640 --> 03:18:08.776 in to build the house. I was about to 03:18:08.800 --> 03:18:10.936 say naughty word. Sorry about that. The 03:18:10.960 --> 03:18:13.736 submitted DA form and statement of 03:18:13.760 --> 03:18:15.656 environmental effects indicate that no 03:18:15.680 --> 03:18:17.976 right of way has been requested. So they 03:18:18.000 --> 03:18:20.455 haven't even talked about over lot 2011 03:18:20.479 --> 03:18:21.976 for the current DA. There's also no 03:18:22.000 --> 03:18:24.295 reference to lot 2011 on the DA form. No 03:18:24.319 --> 03:18:27.176 owner's consent or memor of 03:18:27.200 --> 03:18:28.295 understanding for those who don't know 03:18:28.319 --> 03:18:30.215 what that is for the owners of 2011 03:18:30.239 --> 03:18:32.295 agreeing for a right away over 2011 to 03:18:32.319 --> 03:18:35.016 benefit lot 200. They haven't talked 03:18:35.040 --> 03:18:37.176 about it. 03:18:37.200 --> 03:18:38.536 They haven't talked about it. How are 03:18:38.560 --> 03:18:40.696 they going to access this property? It's 03:18:40.720 --> 03:18:42.136 not necessarily just about the 03:18:42.160 --> 03:18:43.816 agricultural problems which are 03:18:43.840 --> 03:18:45.736 identified in all the all the case 03:18:45.760 --> 03:18:47.415 studies and the law and the reasons 03:18:47.439 --> 03:18:50.439 these experts are denying this. But they 03:18:50.479 --> 03:18:52.616 can't get to the property. They haven't 03:18:52.640 --> 03:18:55.176 talked about it. So I feel so passionate 03:18:55.200 --> 03:18:57.976 about this. This is just bizarre. So 03:18:58.000 --> 03:18:59.255 like I said, normally I'd be like, 03:18:59.279 --> 03:19:00.616 "Yeah, build your house." But not in 03:19:00.640 --> 03:19:03.640 this case. This is um clearly clearly 03:19:04.399 --> 03:19:07.176 underprepared or completely wrong. Thank 03:19:07.200 --> 03:19:07.976 you. 03:19:08.000 --> 03:19:10.375 Thank you, councelor Kemp, and then I'll 03:19:10.399 --> 03:19:12.136 go to write a reply. 03:19:12.160 --> 03:19:15.160 Um I too echo the sentiments of um 03:19:15.520 --> 03:19:18.520 council councelor Grialis. Um I do 03:19:19.040 --> 03:19:22.040 however note that um the subject site is 03:19:22.319 --> 03:19:25.319 an operational turf farm and it contains 03:19:25.359 --> 03:19:28.359 an existing farmhouse and associated 03:19:28.720 --> 03:19:31.720 sheds. So, I do think that while they 03:19:32.479 --> 03:19:35.479 haven't made any recommendation or how 03:19:36.080 --> 03:19:37.976 they're going to go about it, could this 03:19:38.000 --> 03:19:40.136 be just a preliminary 03:19:40.160 --> 03:19:41.976 um 03:19:42.000 --> 03:19:43.496 maybe it's something they're intending 03:19:43.520 --> 03:19:45.096 to work on? 03:19:45.120 --> 03:19:47.096 Um because they they must be getting 03:19:47.120 --> 03:19:50.120 trucks in there for a turf farm. 03:19:50.399 --> 03:19:52.696 Thank you. 03:19:52.720 --> 03:19:55.720 Thank you. I'll go to write a reply. 03:19:55.760 --> 03:19:58.760 Councelor Bradford. 03:19:58.960 --> 03:20:01.255 thanks Madam Chair. Just just briefly 03:20:01.279 --> 03:20:04.279 in right of reply. Um page 197 we have 03:20:05.600 --> 03:20:07.656 the justification for the proposed 03:20:07.680 --> 03:20:10.375 variation and there are there are listed 03:20:10.399 --> 03:20:13.176 there 15 reasons 03:20:13.200 --> 03:20:16.200 15 reasons for the proposed variation. 03:20:16.239 --> 03:20:19.239 we have right through the the body 03:20:20.239 --> 03:20:23.239 of the attachments precedents quoted 03:20:24.319 --> 03:20:26.856 from other areas that do apply to this 03:20:26.880 --> 03:20:28.136 site. 03:20:28.160 --> 03:20:30.136 03:20:30.160 --> 03:20:33.160 and that's done with great legal ease 03:20:33.600 --> 03:20:36.600 which can be simply 03:20:38.560 --> 03:20:40.215 mapped onto the side I suppose you could 03:20:40.239 --> 03:20:43.176 say. Um there's there's no doubt in my 03:20:43.200 --> 03:20:45.576 mind that this is a 03:20:45.600 --> 03:20:48.600 a good outcome. No doubt whatsoever. And 03:20:49.359 --> 03:20:51.255 it it talks about a development 03:20:51.279 --> 03:20:54.279 standard, how it's defined, talks about 03:20:54.479 --> 03:20:57.479 the EPA act. there's so many examples 03:20:58.080 --> 03:21:00.856 there. As I say, the attachment 03:21:00.880 --> 03:21:03.016 certainly swayed my judgment and and I 03:21:03.040 --> 03:21:04.215 believe we should approve it. Thanks, 03:21:04.239 --> 03:21:05.176 Madam Chair. 03:21:05.200 --> 03:21:07.496 Thank you. So I'll put the 03:21:07.520 --> 03:21:09.096 recommendation and this is the 03:21:09.120 --> 03:21:11.656 recommendation from councelor proudoot 03:21:11.680 --> 03:21:14.680 to approve the um the application um in 03:21:16.399 --> 03:21:18.455 align with the reasons why it should be 03:21:18.479 --> 03:21:20.696 approved. So those voting for can you 03:21:20.720 --> 03:21:22.936 please put your hands up. So that's 03:21:22.960 --> 03:21:25.096 councelor Casmiri, councelor Wilkins, 03:21:25.120 --> 03:21:27.816 councelor proud foot, councelor tribe. 03:21:27.840 --> 03:21:30.696 Those voting against councelor Crystal, 03:21:30.720 --> 03:21:32.455 councelor Norris, councelor Clancy, 03:21:32.479 --> 03:21:34.455 councelor Boyd, councelor Killian, 03:21:34.479 --> 03:21:36.455 councelor Steel, councelor Kemp, and 03:21:36.479 --> 03:21:39.479 councelor White and councelor Dy's 03:21:40.239 --> 03:21:43.239 voting against. Um so the motion um to 03:21:43.600 --> 03:21:46.536 refuse, sorry, to approve has been lost. 03:21:46.560 --> 03:21:48.616 We then will go to the foreshadow motion 03:21:48.640 --> 03:21:51.496 by councelor Norris. Do I have a second 03:21:51.520 --> 03:21:53.656 to councelor Norris? Councelor Crystal 03:21:53.680 --> 03:21:55.896 the second. And that is as printed in 03:21:55.920 --> 03:21:57.896 the paper. Do we need any further 03:21:57.920 --> 03:22:00.536 discussion? If not, I'll put the 03:22:00.560 --> 03:22:03.560 recommendation. Those voting in favor, 03:22:03.600 --> 03:22:05.656 councelor Crystal, councelor Norris, 03:22:05.680 --> 03:22:07.335 councelor Clansancy, councelor Boyd, 03:22:07.359 --> 03:22:09.896 councelor Killian, 03:22:09.920 --> 03:22:11.656 councelor 03:22:11.680 --> 03:22:14.215 Steel, councelor Kemp, are you voting 03:22:14.239 --> 03:22:16.696 for or against for for the 03:22:16.720 --> 03:22:19.720 recommendation is printed in the paper? 03:22:21.120 --> 03:22:23.335 So, we're voting to refuse the 03:22:23.359 --> 03:22:26.136 application. 03:22:26.160 --> 03:22:27.656 Um, 03:22:27.680 --> 03:22:28.136 four. 03:22:28.160 --> 03:22:31.160 No, sorry. I'm against the application. 03:22:32.239 --> 03:22:34.455 So, we're voting to refuse the 03:22:34.479 --> 03:22:36.215 application. 03:22:36.239 --> 03:22:39.239 So, you're voting um against that. 03:22:47.040 --> 03:22:48.776 So, you want it refused. 03:22:48.800 --> 03:22:49.255 Yes. 03:22:49.279 --> 03:22:50.776 Right. So, you're voting for the 03:22:50.800 --> 03:22:53.415 recommendation as printed in the paper. 03:22:53.439 --> 03:22:55.816 Um and I will be voting for as it 03:22:55.840 --> 03:22:58.056 approved in the paper, same as councelor 03:22:58.080 --> 03:23:01.080 um done on board. Those voting against 03:23:01.279 --> 03:23:04.136 the recommendation to refuse it, council 03:23:04.160 --> 03:23:06.136 Casmiri, councelor Wilkins, councelor 03:23:06.160 --> 03:23:09.160 proudoot and councelor Tri I um the 03:23:09.920 --> 03:23:12.056 recommendation as presented in the paper 03:23:12.080 --> 03:23:14.455 is carried. 03:23:14.479 --> 03:23:17.479 Right. So we'll now go on to 03:23:17.520 --> 03:23:19.736 um 03:23:19.760 --> 03:23:22.760 CL 26.57. 03:23:22.880 --> 03:23:25.736 Shoalhaven water drought management plan 03:23:25.760 --> 03:23:28.760 and that goes to councelor steel. 03:23:30.720 --> 03:23:32.856 Thank you madame mayor. 03:23:32.880 --> 03:23:35.880 Um I cannot support this motion. We have 03:23:36.399 --> 03:23:38.616 totally different needs and resources to 03:23:38.640 --> 03:23:40.375 Sydney while 03:23:40.399 --> 03:23:43.335 so just before you vote for that do I 03:23:43.359 --> 03:23:45.016 have a mover for the recommendation in 03:23:45.040 --> 03:23:47.016 the paper. Councelor Crystalitis. 03:23:47.040 --> 03:23:49.896 Councelor Boyd. , now you can talk. 03:23:49.920 --> 03:23:51.656 , first of all, would you like to 03:23:51.680 --> 03:23:54.680 speak first, Councelor Crystalitis? 03:23:55.359 --> 03:23:57.976 Yep. And then I'll come back to you. 03:23:58.000 --> 03:23:59.896 Um, I'll be very brief. As I said, we're 03:23:59.920 --> 03:24:02.616 running out of time. Um, essentially, 03:24:02.640 --> 03:24:05.176 this just makes sense. This was has been 03:24:05.200 --> 03:24:06.856 discussed and planned with the state 03:24:06.880 --> 03:24:08.856 government and and council for a long 03:24:08.880 --> 03:24:11.880 time. um the reasons for doing this 03:24:13.040 --> 03:24:15.096 pretty much written in there 03:24:15.120 --> 03:24:17.816 including this makes us more fire safe. 03:24:17.840 --> 03:24:19.576 Now if you're not talking thinking right 03:24:19.600 --> 03:24:22.455 now about the 1920 Carowan fires and how 03:24:22.479 --> 03:24:24.215 our water supplies went down I think it 03:24:24.239 --> 03:24:27.239 was written in the report down past 40%. 03:24:27.840 --> 03:24:30.840 Is that that yep um then you're thinking 03:24:31.120 --> 03:24:33.816 wrong and this guarantees that we don't 03:24:33.840 --> 03:24:36.696 have to worry about that at all um into 03:24:36.720 --> 03:24:38.776 the future. It was a recommendation um 03:24:38.800 --> 03:24:40.776 in the investigations passed that and 03:24:40.800 --> 03:24:42.056 that's why we should vote for it. Thank 03:24:42.080 --> 03:24:42.936 you. 03:24:42.960 --> 03:24:45.960 Thank you, Councelor Steel. 03:24:46.080 --> 03:24:48.536 Okay. Um I cannot support this motion, 03:24:48.560 --> 03:24:51.176 Madame May. Um we have totally different 03:24:51.200 --> 03:24:53.496 needs and resources to Sydney. Why pull 03:24:53.520 --> 03:24:55.736 ourselves into line with Sydney Water 03:24:55.760 --> 03:24:57.896 when we have our own river, our own dams 03:24:57.920 --> 03:25:00.375 along with a $275 million infrastructure 03:25:00.399 --> 03:25:02.616 bill already hitting our tax, our rate 03:25:02.640 --> 03:25:05.640 payers. Shaven waters management system 03:25:05.680 --> 03:25:07.896 has proven itself effective. We have 03:25:07.920 --> 03:25:10.056 managed our re water resources quite 03:25:10.080 --> 03:25:12.455 successfully through local initiatives 03:25:12.479 --> 03:25:15.016 and community engagement. We have built 03:25:15.040 --> 03:25:16.696 resilience into our operations which 03:25:16.720 --> 03:25:18.616 allow us to respond quickly to local 03:25:18.640 --> 03:25:20.375 conditions and ensure our residents and 03:25:20.399 --> 03:25:23.399 businesses needs are met. Given this, 03:25:23.439 --> 03:25:25.096 why would we want to place ourselves 03:25:25.120 --> 03:25:27.255 under externally controlled restrictions 03:25:27.279 --> 03:25:30.279 aimed at serving metropolitan regions? 03:25:32.160 --> 03:25:34.295 From what I recall, the last time we 03:25:34.319 --> 03:25:35.896 actually had water restrictions here in 03:25:35.920 --> 03:25:38.920 the Shoalhaven was back in 2007 and that 03:25:39.359 --> 03:25:41.415 was just a flow on effect from the fact 03:25:41.439 --> 03:25:44.136 that the rest of the state was in 03:25:44.160 --> 03:25:46.136 drought even though we still had 03:25:46.160 --> 03:25:49.096 substantial water supplies. I can't see 03:25:49.120 --> 03:25:51.096 the value in adopting a metropolitan 03:25:51.120 --> 03:25:52.776 restriction framework that is 03:25:52.800 --> 03:25:54.696 increasingly being shaped by the massive 03:25:54.720 --> 03:25:56.616 water demands of what is not only a much 03:25:56.640 --> 03:25:59.640 more heavily populated region but more 03:26:00.000 --> 03:26:03.000 businesses and factories than bushland 03:26:03.040 --> 03:26:05.816 and playing host to over 100 Sydney data 03:26:05.840 --> 03:26:07.976 centers each individual one requiring 03:26:08.000 --> 03:26:09.496 massive amounts of water for cooling 03:26:09.520 --> 03:26:12.520 purposes per day. We on the other hand 03:26:12.960 --> 03:26:15.415 have 20% of our region dedicated to 03:26:15.439 --> 03:26:17.736 agriculture and a population of only 03:26:17.760 --> 03:26:20.215 110,000. 03:26:20.239 --> 03:26:21.736 What about the threat of bush fires you 03:26:21.760 --> 03:26:24.056 might ask? Where would firefighting 03:26:24.080 --> 03:26:25.896 helicopters fill up in an emergency? 03:26:25.920 --> 03:26:27.816 Again, we are blessed in this area. We 03:26:27.840 --> 03:26:29.415 have an abundance of river systems, 03:26:29.439 --> 03:26:31.576 lakes, and dams dotted all over our 03:26:31.600 --> 03:26:32.936 region which are suitable for this kind 03:26:32.960 --> 03:26:35.960 of situation. 03:26:37.760 --> 03:26:40.056 If signing up to this is the only way we 03:26:40.080 --> 03:26:43.080 are a question if I may is signing up to 03:26:43.760 --> 03:26:45.335 this the only way we can access water 03:26:45.359 --> 03:26:48.359 from tea war dam if need be 03:26:48.479 --> 03:26:51.479 I'll go to director mcbay 03:26:52.399 --> 03:26:55.176 through you madam may um it's certainly 03:26:55.200 --> 03:26:58.136 part of it so by going to New South 03:26:58.160 --> 03:27:01.016 Wales and getting an agreeance into 03:27:01.040 --> 03:27:03.096 using their dam rather than using our 03:27:03.120 --> 03:27:06.120 dams part of it was going to a permanent 03:27:07.279 --> 03:27:10.279 water saving guidelines um arrangement 03:27:10.479 --> 03:27:12.056 and that was part of the sweetener for 03:27:12.080 --> 03:27:14.136 going towards um being able to use 03:27:14.160 --> 03:27:15.896 Talibus dam water all the time and then 03:27:15.920 --> 03:27:18.920 save our dams for emergency situations. 03:27:21.439 --> 03:27:24.439 Okay. 03:27:27.200 --> 03:27:30.200 Is there any extra cost involved in 03:27:30.720 --> 03:27:33.016 drawing from Tawaradim 03:27:33.040 --> 03:27:35.896 if I may ask? track to mine. 03:27:35.920 --> 03:27:38.295 You mad may no additional costs by using 03:27:38.319 --> 03:27:40.455 the water from Tel. 03:27:40.479 --> 03:27:42.536 Okay. So, we already are using water 03:27:42.560 --> 03:27:45.560 from Tel War Dam. Okay. So, we do not 03:27:46.080 --> 03:27:48.056 need to actually 03:27:48.080 --> 03:27:49.736 pull ourselves into line with Sydney to 03:27:49.760 --> 03:27:52.760 be able to access that. Um, so that's 03:27:53.760 --> 03:27:56.136 why I'm wondering when our shell water 03:27:56.160 --> 03:27:58.215 have already done a wonderful job of 03:27:58.239 --> 03:27:59.496 looking after the needs of our 03:27:59.520 --> 03:28:02.520 community, why we would need to pull 03:28:03.520 --> 03:28:05.016 ourselves way back into law with 03:28:05.040 --> 03:28:06.776 something which is more in line with 03:28:06.800 --> 03:28:09.800 metropolitan needs and regions. 03:28:10.720 --> 03:28:11.656 Thank you very much. 03:28:11.680 --> 03:28:14.680 Thank you. Any further speakers? 03:28:14.960 --> 03:28:16.536 There's no further speakers. I'll put 03:28:16.560 --> 03:28:18.696 the recommendation. Those who wish to 03:28:18.720 --> 03:28:21.720 vote against 03:28:21.920 --> 03:28:24.920 Councelor Steel, Councelor um Kemp, the 03:28:26.239 --> 03:28:28.295 balance vote in favor. So I declare that 03:28:28.319 --> 03:28:30.856 carried. Now I need a mover in a second 03:28:30.880 --> 03:28:33.415 for an extension of time. So I'll put 03:28:33.439 --> 03:28:35.415 the extension of time till 9:30. 03:28:35.439 --> 03:28:37.816 Hopefully we won't need to use that. So 03:28:37.840 --> 03:28:39.255 councelor Norris and councelor 03:28:39.279 --> 03:28:41.016 Krikstolaitis. Anybody wishing to vote 03:28:41.040 --> 03:28:43.816 against that? Thank you. So I declare 03:28:43.840 --> 03:28:46.455 that carried. So we now move into the 03:28:46.479 --> 03:28:49.479 confidential session of the paper. 03:28:54.399 --> 03:28:56.696 So, we're now back online. So, can I ask 03:28:56.720 --> 03:28:58.936 the CEO to read out the decisions of 03:28:58.960 --> 03:29:01.335 council recommendations while we're in 03:29:01.359 --> 03:29:03.496 confidential session? 03:29:03.520 --> 03:29:05.736 , so two such recommendations. 03:29:05.760 --> 03:29:08.536 Firstly, in relation to CCL 26.3 03:29:08.560 --> 03:29:10.295 tenders, West Nar and Narrow Hill sewer 03:29:10.319 --> 03:29:12.616 and water project. The recommendation is 03:29:12.640 --> 03:29:14.136 the council endorses a recommendation of 03:29:14.160 --> 03:29:16.375 the tender evaluation panel and accepts 03:29:16.399 --> 03:29:18.215 the tender from his way proprietary 03:29:18.239 --> 03:29:21.239 limited ta his way earth moving for 03:29:21.520 --> 03:29:23.736 separable portions E and F for a total 03:29:23.760 --> 03:29:26.760 cost of 829,26 03:29:27.279 --> 03:29:30.279 $276.80 80 cents including GST. Two 03:29:31.680 --> 03:29:33.415 endorses the recommendation of the 03:29:33.439 --> 03:29:35.415 tender evaluation panel and accepts the 03:29:35.439 --> 03:29:37.896 tender from hisway proprietary limited 03:29:37.920 --> 03:29:40.920 ta his way earth moving for separable 03:29:41.279 --> 03:29:44.279 portions A B and D for a total cost of 03:29:44.319 --> 03:29:47.319 9,840,918.90 03:29:47.920 --> 03:29:49.976 including GST to proceed post resolution 03:29:50.000 --> 03:29:52.215 of outstanding land matters. Three 03:29:52.239 --> 03:29:53.896 endorses a recommendation of the tender 03:29:53.920 --> 03:29:55.816 evaluation panel and accepts the tender 03:29:55.840 --> 03:29:57.576 from Ironbuilt Infrastructure 03:29:57.600 --> 03:29:59.016 Proprietary Limited for separable 03:29:59.040 --> 03:30:01.096 portion C for a total cost of 03:30:01.120 --> 03:30:04.120 $2,340,39327 03:30:05.760 --> 03:30:08.760 including GST. part four, the 03:30:08.800 --> 03:30:10.295 contract documents and any other 03:30:10.319 --> 03:30:13.016 associated documents being executed on 03:30:13.040 --> 03:30:14.375 behalf of the council in accordance with 03:30:14.399 --> 03:30:16.056 the local government general regulation 03:30:16.080 --> 03:30:19.080 2021 section 165 by the CEO director 03:30:19.279 --> 03:30:22.279 Shoalhaven Water 03:30:24.239 --> 03:30:27.239 and in relation to CCL 26.4 tenders call 03:30:27.680 --> 03:30:29.816 for applications approved suppliers list 03:30:29.840 --> 03:30:32.840 recovered material. The recommendation. 03:30:33.120 --> 03:30:34.616 The council endorses the recommendation 03:30:34.640 --> 03:30:36.295 of the procurement evaluation panel and 03:30:36.319 --> 03:30:37.736 accepts the following applications for 03:30:37.760 --> 03:30:39.656 the approved suppliers list recovered 03:30:39.680 --> 03:30:42.056 material. The approved suppliers will be 03:30:42.080 --> 03:30:43.656 selected from time to time over the 03:30:43.680 --> 03:30:46.295 10-year initial term to submit bids for 03:30:46.319 --> 03:30:48.056 service agreements to purchase process 03:30:48.080 --> 03:30:49.896 and/or transport nominated types of 03:30:49.920 --> 03:30:51.496 recovered material from council's 03:30:51.520 --> 03:30:53.656 recycling and waste depots, including 03:30:53.680 --> 03:30:55.576 the new material recovery facility at 03:30:55.600 --> 03:30:57.736 West Nara in accordance with the dynamic 03:30:57.760 --> 03:31:00.056 operational requirements of those sites. 03:31:00.080 --> 03:31:01.896 A. Benedict Recycling Proprietary 03:31:01.920 --> 03:31:03.656 Limited. B. Cleanway Proprietary 03:31:03.680 --> 03:31:05.335 Limited. C. Recycle Operations 03:31:05.359 --> 03:31:08.359 Proprietary Limited. D. Resource Co. WP 03:31:10.399 --> 03:31:13.399 RF Proprietary Limited. Cell and Parker 03:31:14.000 --> 03:31:16.696 Propri E. Cell and Papaka Proprietary 03:31:16.720 --> 03:31:19.016 Limited. F Sims Group Australia Holdings 03:31:19.040 --> 03:31:22.040 Limited. G. Silo. Proprietary Limited. 03:31:22.399 --> 03:31:24.295 Two. the contract documents and any 03:31:24.319 --> 03:31:26.215 other associated documents be executed 03:31:26.239 --> 03:31:27.816 on behalf of the council in accordance 03:31:27.840 --> 03:31:29.576 with local government general regulation 03:31:29.600 --> 03:31:32.600 2021 section 165 by the CEO director 03:31:33.200 --> 03:31:35.496 Shoalhaven water three the purchase 03:31:35.520 --> 03:31:37.576 process andor transport of recovered 03:31:37.600 --> 03:31:39.656 material has an estimated combined 03:31:39.680 --> 03:31:42.680 annual value of 4,220 03:31:43.200 --> 03:31:45.176 sorry $290,000 03:31:45.200 --> 03:31:47.496 expenditure and three and a half million 03:31:47.520 --> 03:31:50.520 in sales material quantities and market 03:31:50.560 --> 03:31:52.616 prices are expected to fluctuate 03:31:52.640 --> 03:31:54.375 Under the approved suppliers list 03:31:54.399 --> 03:31:56.536 recovered material service agreements, 03:31:56.560 --> 03:31:58.295 CEO director Shoalhaven water be 03:31:58.319 --> 03:32:00.536 delegated authorization to determine and 03:32:00.560 --> 03:32:02.696 accept any bids made under and in 03:32:02.720 --> 03:32:04.616 accordance with the service agreements 03:32:04.640 --> 03:32:06.856 except any bids required by law to be 03:32:06.880 --> 03:32:09.335 determined by full council. Two, the 03:32:09.359 --> 03:32:11.496 CEO, Director Shoalhaven Water, be 03:32:11.520 --> 03:32:13.496 delegated authorization to accept 03:32:13.520 --> 03:32:15.016 further applications received for 03:32:15.040 --> 03:32:17.255 inclusion on the approved suppliers list 03:32:17.279 --> 03:32:19.255 recovered material as a result of public 03:32:19.279 --> 03:32:21.096 calls for fresh applications during the 03:32:21.120 --> 03:32:23.576 10-year initial term of the list and 03:32:23.600 --> 03:32:25.576 during any of up to two extension 03:32:25.600 --> 03:32:28.455 options of up to 5 years each as may be 03:32:28.479 --> 03:32:30.696 taken up in accordance with the services 03:32:30.720 --> 03:32:32.936 agreements. 03:32:32.960 --> 03:32:35.960 Thank you. Um, CEO, um, with that I'll 03:32:36.479 --> 03:32:39.479 close the meeting. Thank you.