WEBVTT 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:03.480 So councilors being 5:30 00:00:03.679 --> 00:00:06.536 I will open 00:00:06.560 --> 00:00:09.560 all the noise 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:12.535 I will open the ordinary meeting of 00:00:12.559 --> 00:00:15.559 council for the 26th of May 2026. 00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:18.456 first of all I need to read out the 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.936 statement in relation to the meeting 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.896 being audio videoed. The proceedings 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.136 of this meeting, including debate, will 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.856 be webcasted, recorded and made 00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:31.335 available on council's website under the 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:33.016 provisions of the code of meeting 00:00:33.040 --> 00:00:35.256 practice. Our code of meeting practice 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.280 states that it is not the intention of 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:39.896 live streaming, recording, and 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:41.736 publishing to capture those attending 00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:44.055 the meeting in the gallery. However, 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:47.079 this may occur due to the camera angles 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:50.136 and seating arrangements. By attending 00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:52.375 this meeting, you are consenting to your 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:54.936 image, voice, and comments being 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:57.416 webcasted and recorded and should 00:00:57.440 --> 00:01:00.440 refrain from making any deflamatory com 00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:03.416 statements. Your attendance at this 00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:05.896 meeting is taken as consent to the 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:08.536 possibility that your image and or voice 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.176 may be recorded and broadcasted to the 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:13.896 public. Thank you. So, acknowledgement 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:16.216 to country. Shoalhaven City Council 00:01:16.240 --> 00:01:18.216 recognizes the first people of the 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:20.616 Shoalhaven and their ongoing connection to 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:23.176 culture and country. We acknowledge 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.095 Aboriginal people as the traditional 00:01:25.119 --> 00:01:28.119 owners, custodians, and lawkeepers of 00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:30.856 the world's oldest living culture and 00:01:30.880 --> 00:01:32.936 pay respects to their Elders, past, 00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:35.336 present, and emerging. 00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:37.896 So, we'll now have 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.920 a moment silent in respect of 00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:45.960 reflection. Thank you. 00:02:46.959 --> 00:02:48.776 Thank you, counselors. We'll now have 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.800 the national anthem, please. 00:02:55.760 --> 00:02:58.760 Australians. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.080 all let us rejoice for we are one and 00:03:15.440 --> 00:03:17.256 free 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.280 with golden soil and wealth for toil. 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.840 Our home is girt by sea. 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:29.319 Our land of bounding nature's gifts 00:03:30.799 --> 00:03:33.799 of beauty rich and rare in history's page 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.416 let every stage Advence Australia Fair 00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:40.440 in joyful strains then let us sing Advance Australia Fair 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:05.879 Thank you counselors. 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:14.696 So 00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:17.096 I note that councelor Dunn has joined us 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.016 at the commencement of the meeting via 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.656 audio visual link. Mr. Constance, have 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:24.680 you have can you please advise if 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:27.735 you have received a request for council 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:29.336 Dunn in accordance with the new 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:30.936 requirements under the code of meeting 00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:32.856 practice? I can confirm that we have 00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:34.776 received that request and this 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:36.296 request is in line with the provision as 00:04:36.320 --> 00:04:38.136 outlined as part five of code meeting 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:39.175 practice. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:41.656 So councilors I call for a mover and a 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:44.680 seconder of a motion to grant councelor 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.096 Dunn permission to attend the ordinary 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.120 meeting of May 26. It's yeah May 26, 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:54.536 2006 by audio visual. Councelor Dunn, 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:55.895 councelor Steele, is there anybody 00:04:55.919 --> 00:04:58.696 wishing to vote against? I declare that 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:01.720 carried so councelor Dunn you have 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.096 now been granted permission to continue 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.496 to attend this meeting by audiovisisual 00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:10.296 link. Mr. Constance will you please read 00:05:10.320 --> 00:05:12.776 the requirement for audio visisual 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:14.136 attendance. 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.656 under our code of meeting practice 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.015 I'd like to remind our councilors 00:05:17.039 --> 00:05:19.976 joining remotely of section 5.20 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.376 being a council must give their full 00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:23.416 attention to the business and 00:05:23.440 --> 00:05:24.696 proceedings of the meeting when 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:26.376 attending a meeting by audio visual 00:05:26.400 --> 00:05:28.296 link. The council's camera must be on at 00:05:28.320 --> 00:05:29.895 all times during the meeting except as 00:05:29.919 --> 00:05:31.895 may be otherwise provided for under this 00:05:31.919 --> 00:05:33.175 code. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.976 Thank you so with the confirmation 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.656 of minutes, so the minutes of the 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:39.336 ordinary meeting of council that was 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.360 held on the 28th of April 2026 and the 00:05:43.520 --> 00:05:45.895 minutes of the extraordinary meeting um 00:05:45.919 --> 00:05:48.776 of council held on the 30th of April 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.296 2026 00:05:50.320 --> 00:05:53.015 have been circulated to councilors. Are 00:05:53.039 --> 00:05:56.039 there any amendments or corrections? 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.600 If not can I have a mover and a 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:03.096 second, please? Councelor Wilkins, 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.120 Councelor Casmiri anybody wishing 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:08.136 to 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.696 vote against those minutes? I 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.720 declare them carried unanimously. 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.096 Right. do we have any declarations 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.056 of conflict of interest? 00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:27.080 I have one madame mayor that 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.360 relates to item number CL 26.96. It's 00:06:31.840 --> 00:06:34.295 an opportunity less than significant 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:37.319 conflict of interest and involves my 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.735 knowing of Oliver Griffith who's 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.295 involved in that campaign. 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.319 Right. So move on. Thank you CEO 00:06:46.080 --> 00:06:48.455 presentations of petition petitions. Do 00:06:48.479 --> 00:06:50.136 we have any councilors who wish to 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.160 present a petition tonight? 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.199 So no petitions. 00:06:58.400 --> 00:07:01.400 So we go down now to the Mayoral minutes. 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.216 So the first Mayoral minute is in relation 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:06.856 to a condolence motion to Ballina Shire 00:07:06.880 --> 00:07:09.880 Council and Marine Rescue New South 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:12.216 Wales. So recently up on the North 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.615 Coast, you would have heard in Ballina 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:17.639 that some Marine Rescue went out to save 00:07:17.919 --> 00:07:20.776 a yacht that was on their break wall 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:23.800 and they had several people die. The 00:07:23.919 --> 00:07:26.919 marine rescue boat rolled over as 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.175 people were thrown into the water, the 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.199 volunteers and they died in there 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.015 also the fellow who was on the yacht 00:07:37.039 --> 00:07:40.039 also died in the what 00:07:40.960 --> 00:07:42.936 happened on that night in the middle of 00:07:42.960 --> 00:07:45.336 the night. I do understand that there is 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.056 an inquiry going to happen into exactly 00:07:48.080 --> 00:07:50.136 what happened. I've spoken to the mayor 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:52.376 of Ballina and I've passed on our 00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:54.216 condolences from Shoalhaven City 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:56.216 Council, but I would also like like to 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.295 formally as a meal minute pass our 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:01.319 condolences on to the mayor and the 00:08:01.840 --> 00:08:04.840 council to marine um rescue um and also 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.759 to um the marine rescue commander um 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:13.175 that we're thinking of them up in 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.136 Ballina from this tragic event. We rely 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.160 heavily on um on marine rescue down 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:22.696 here. We have several units down here as 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.096 well. Um and I'd hate such a tragedy to 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:27.175 happen down here on the south coast. So, 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:29.015 it's just basically sending our thoughts 00:08:29.039 --> 00:08:32.039 to to Ballina to say we stand side by 00:08:32.560 --> 00:08:34.375 side with them on the condolences up 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.935 there. do I have a seconder? 00:08:36.959 --> 00:08:39.656 Councelor Steele. do I have anybody 00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:42.056 wishing to speak? 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:43.895 No. So, I'll put the recommendation. 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.696 Anybody wishing to vote against I 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.576 declare that carried unanimously. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.136 The second Mayoral minutes in relation 00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:54.856 to Ulladulla's physical culture club 00:08:54.880 --> 00:08:57.255 and the fees that they currently pay at 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:00.279 the Ulladulla Civic Center. The notice of 00:09:00.800 --> 00:09:03.176 motion is pretty self-explanatory. 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.200 Um so what has happened traditionally 00:09:06.560 --> 00:09:08.456 over a period of time down at the 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.416 Ulladulla Civic Center is physical culture 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.440 have received reduced fees, 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.480 discounted fees when the staff have 00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:19.896 gone through the fees that they were 00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:22.296 being charged, they are significantly 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:25.320 low and are significantly out of line 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:29.495 with what is the current charges 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.656 what happens with physical culture? 00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:33.576 They've been there for 50 years. They've 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.136 been in that building for 50 years. What 00:09:36.160 --> 00:09:39.160 happens is they set their fees at the 00:09:39.920 --> 00:09:41.976 end of every year. Now, it's my 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.896 understanding and the CEO and myself 00:09:43.920 --> 00:09:45.495 have met with the physical culture 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.519 people. My understanding is they were 00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:51.255 requesting last year at the end of the 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.016 year what were the fee increases going 00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:56.040 to be and they weren't told of any 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.216 changes to their fees. So they set their 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.616 fees for 2026. 00:10:00.640 --> 00:10:03.640 They advised all their parents um and if 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.935 they were to have to pay this 00:10:06.959 --> 00:10:09.255 increase it would see the closure of 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.136 physical culture down in Milton Nadala 00:10:12.160 --> 00:10:14.696 that's been going for 50 years. So all 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:16.696 this recommendation is asking for that 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.336 we retain the fees that we have been 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:21.656 charging them because they haven't 00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:24.375 gone up and at the end of the year 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.399 that the staff so the director and 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:30.519 the CEO negotiate the increases over 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.976 the next 3 years. So they come up into 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.000 line with the current fees and 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.216 increases but they give it they're given 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.240 a period to bring that into line. So 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.720 we have done this on other leases and 00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:50.776 licenses that we have. We've approved 00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:53.800 them here that we have a a gradual 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:57.576 increase in the fees um so that they can 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:59.176 meet them so it doesn't mean the closure 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.200 of the service. So do I have a seconder? 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:05.176 Councelor Kemp, do I have anybody 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.576 wishing to speak? 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:09.176 If not, I'll put the recommendation. 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.200 Anybody wishing to vote against? 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.055 Nobody wishes to vote against. I declare 00:11:14.079 --> 00:11:16.296 that carried unanimously. 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:18.456 so we'll now move on to the notices 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.935 of motion. 00:11:20.959 --> 00:11:23.959 So we will go to 00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:27.640 um CC sorry CL 26.65 00:11:28.959 --> 00:11:31.959 notice of motion protecting communities 00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:35.160 right to access community areas and 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.336 protect our logging workers. And I'll 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.016 acknowledge all of the logging workers 00:11:39.040 --> 00:11:41.416 who have attended this meeting tonight 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.255 who are in the gallery. So we'll go to 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.279 you councelor Steele 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.896 and I'm happy to second this. Thank you 00:11:49.920 --> 00:11:52.920 very much. Okay. So to those calling on 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:54.935 the state government and signing 00:11:54.959 --> 00:11:57.495 petitions to create a big spotty flora 00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:59.736 reserve. If you're serious about 00:11:59.760 --> 00:12:02.760 protecting Big Spotty, guess what? 00:12:02.959 --> 00:12:04.696 Your wish was granted about 50 years ago 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.336 by the Forestry Corporation. Even our 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.736 own MPs have joined the call to sign 00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:12.456 this petition. Despite formal forestry 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:13.976 protection already existing for over 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.615 half a century, we need to look closely 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:18.615 at the broader policy agenda driving 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.176 these decisions. 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.200 could we have the film slide please? 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.456 You did. So let's look at what big body 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.096 petition is really about. People are for 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.336 the most part good with good intentions. 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:35.016 They hear that something or someone 00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:37.255 needs help and quite often will roll up 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:39.576 their sleeves to help. Or if it's as 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.495 simple as signing a petition, they can 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.016 make the partitioners feel happy and 00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:44.696 supported. They walk away feeling 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:46.216 they've helped someone or something 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:48.776 else. What the majority of us don't 00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:51.176 realize is that we have not just put our 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.736 name to protecting Big Spotty. What your 00:12:53.760 --> 00:12:56.296 signature is actually required for is so 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.216 the organizers can gain what they call a 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.296 social license to create the great 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.856 southern forest national park which will 00:13:02.880 --> 00:13:04.856 close down most public bushlands between 00:13:04.880 --> 00:13:07.736 the Shoalhaven and the Victorian border. 00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:09.896 Yes, you signed for extra petition over 00:13:09.920 --> 00:13:12.136 something already protected. So this is 00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:14.136 their social license to give Big Spotty 00:13:14.160 --> 00:13:16.216 the extra protection you signed and 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.456 therefore asked for. 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.375 There are four stages to this plan. 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.176 These stages are stage one the 260 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.576 hectare entry point including initial 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.375 petition with 12,000 signatures possibly 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:29.976 from all around the country and possibly 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.216 the world. It's called the big spotty 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.935 flora reserve proposal and it targets 00:13:34.959 --> 00:13:37.016 compartment 50A which is already 00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:39.176 protected by forestry. This was brought 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.336 to Shoalhaven City Council on the 24th 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.055 of April in 23 and again 3 months and 00:13:44.079 --> 00:13:46.615 one week later. 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.639 Stage two, the 3,000 hectare expansion 00:13:49.760 --> 00:13:51.495 called the Broomman forest protection 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.519 area or big spotty florate reserve. This 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:57.736 was the expanded boundary pushed for 00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:00.760 after the 260 hectare gained momentum. 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:02.935 It aims to swallow the surrounding 00:14:02.959 --> 00:14:05.255 compartments to create a buffer. This is 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.416 the one Shoalhaven City Council voted 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.336 against by refusing to sign the support 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.216 letter in March of 26. 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.240 Stage three, 7,000 hectares plus 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:17.255 strategic link. Named the Forest 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.976 Alliance New South Wales core habitat 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.776 strategy. This proposal identifies 00:14:22.800 --> 00:14:25.656 roughly 7,000 hectares of high value old 00:14:25.680 --> 00:14:28.456 growth areas. This is designed to bridge 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:30.536 the gap between existing national parks 00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:32.856 and the state forests, effectively 00:14:32.880 --> 00:14:34.856 cutting off logging access roads 00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:36.615 permanently. 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:39.336 Stage four, the 400,000 hectare master 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.055 plan named the Great Southern Forest 00:14:42.079 --> 00:14:45.079 National Park proposal led by NOS's 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.976 National Parks Association, not to be 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:49.336 confused with National Parks and 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.976 Wildlife, and supported by Sue Higgins, 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.000 MLC, aims to convert all public native 00:14:55.040 --> 00:14:56.935 forests from Nara to the Victorian 00:14:56.959 --> 00:14:59.959 border, approximately 432,000 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:03.096 hectares or 4,320 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.120 km into a single continuous National 00:15:06.160 --> 00:15:09.160 Park. Stages three and four are beyond 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.096 our control other than to advocate to 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.856 other councils and the state government, 00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:14.456 but we can lobby the government to 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.776 protect our own forests and communities 00:15:16.800 --> 00:15:19.800 with regards to stages one and two. The 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.055 loggers were aware of Big Spotty before 00:15:22.079 --> 00:15:23.896 Forestry Corp. even came into existence 00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:26.055 back in 1916. 00:15:26.079 --> 00:15:28.456 Yet with no mandates, no political 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.776 pressure, and no desire or interest in 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:33.016 virtue flexing, these loggers knew there 00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:35.416 was something special about these trees. 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:36.696 So it was brought to the attention of 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:38.375 the forestry by the very same loggers 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:40.536 who had themselves protected Big Spotty 00:15:40.560 --> 00:15:42.456 for decades. 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.055 Forestry Corp agreed to the importance 00:15:44.079 --> 00:15:47.079 and declared Big Spotty protected with a 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.120 60 m exclusion zone. Loggers were 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.296 already avoiding the area around Big 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:55.320 Spot by a much larger margin. 00:15:55.680 --> 00:15:57.576 These same loggers are the very people 00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:59.016 who are standing with our rural 00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:01.495 firefighters service during the 2019 and 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.216 2020 fires, putting themselves and their 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.096 equipment in the literal line of fire. 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.495 For what? I'll tell you what. For our 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.255 community. 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:13.735 Now, for the third time in three years, 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:15.735 there have been calls to thank them by 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:17.656 closing their industry as if there is no 00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:19.416 further use for the very industry and 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.336 families involved in the logging that 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:23.735 helped build the Shoalhaven. Some of 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.255 these families are six and seven 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:26.856 generation logging families who are the 00:16:26.880 --> 00:16:28.856 very fabric of what allowed the Shaw 00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:30.776 Shoalhaven to grow and develop to what we 00:16:30.800 --> 00:16:32.856 have today. 00:16:32.880 --> 00:16:34.856 In December 2022, the Australian 00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:36.776 government signed an agreement in a 00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:39.336 coalition of countries chaired by China. 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.935 This agreement gave Australia's 00:16:40.959 --> 00:16:42.856 commitment to close off for protection 00:16:42.880 --> 00:16:45.255 and conservation at least 30% of our 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.096 land, waterways, and marine 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.696 environments. 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.720 after say signed this the Kuning sorry 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.536 the Kuning Montreal global bio 00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:56.776 biodiversity framework agreement 00:16:56.800 --> 00:16:59.800 excuse me councelor Steele um your time 00:16:59.839 --> 00:17:01.896 is up do you have an extension extension 00:17:01.920 --> 00:17:04.535 by councelor Kemp any a seconder 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.616 councelor Casmir anybody wishing to vote 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:08.616 against an extension 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.640 councelor Boyd councelor Morris and 00:17:13.120 --> 00:17:15.336 councelor Crystal I voting against and 00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:17.096 councelor Kelly in the veilance vote in 00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:19.175 favor continue councelor Steele. 00:17:19.199 --> 00:17:21.496 Thank you very much. In December 2022, 00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:22.856 the Australian government signed an 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:23.976 agreement with the Coalition of 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.815 Countries chaired by China. This 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.576 agreement gave Australia's commitment to 00:17:27.600 --> 00:17:29.256 close off for protection and 00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:31.576 conservation at least 30% of our land, 00:17:31.600 --> 00:17:33.976 waterways, and marine environments. 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.736 After Australia signed this, the 00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:38.056 Kunmining Montreal global biodiversity 00:17:38.080 --> 00:17:40.056 framework agreement, they came up with 00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:41.496 an approach to honoring their 00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:43.976 commitments to close down 30% of land, 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.736 waterways, and marine areas here in 00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:48.296 Australia. The government consulted with 00:17:48.320 --> 00:17:51.320 54 unnamed and unidentified 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:52.936 organizations. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:54.535 Only the sectors they work in are 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:56.856 available for public information. These 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.816 sectors are government, non-government, 00:17:59.840 --> 00:18:02.696 indigenous, scientific, philanthropic, 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.096 and private sector. 00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:06.535 Why were the rest of the country left 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.336 out of this conversation? 00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:10.696 If the intended outcome of the 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:12.296 government's commitment was good for 00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:14.456 Australia and Australians, wouldn't our 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:15.895 prime minister be beating his chest 00:18:15.919 --> 00:18:17.496 about it rather than quietly trying to 00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:19.895 get it slipped through discreetly? Let's 00:18:19.919 --> 00:18:21.496 get our focus back onto our community 00:18:21.520 --> 00:18:23.576 for the moment, though. If these plans 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:25.816 come to fruition, it will be not just 00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:27.336 the loggers who feed their families and 00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:28.856 keep a roof over their heads thanks to 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.176 the forest life who will be whose lives 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.136 will be changed forever. 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.616 There are over currently over 50 active 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.535 appidary sites in north and south 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.559 Broomman state forest. That is more than 00:18:42.080 --> 00:18:44.616 that. That's honey producers producing 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.640 for our our food supply. 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.616 Other honey producers living further 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:53.176 south. Okay. Add to that number as well. 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:54.775 If this national park goes ahead, our 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.176 honey industry faces uncertainty. Our 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.256 hardwood industry facing even more 00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:01.416 uncertainty with the added stress for 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.816 community members of continued targeting 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:05.416 by activist groups to have their 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.336 employment disbanded. 00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:09.256 Who else do we not hear about being 00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:11.416 affected? Our neighboring property 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.136 owners face immense uncertainty, zero 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.736 effort for consultation throughout the 00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:17.736 border community and a severe 00:19:17.760 --> 00:19:20.136 restriction on multi-use land access 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.736 threatening our region's broader 00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:24.760 agricultural network and food security. 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.015 So here we are, at least two industries 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:29.496 directly affected and under risk. And we 00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:31.096 managed to reduce the country's food 00:19:31.120 --> 00:19:32.856 security across the whole southeast of 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.880 New South Wales at the same time. 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.576 Even with an extension of time, there's 00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:41.096 nowhere near enough time to go through 00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:44.120 all this. National parks received in New 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.256 South Wales alone received $297 million 00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:48.936 and still struggles with maintenance of 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:51.496 the lands they control. This often means 00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:53.416 lack of funding to maintain roads and 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:55.816 fire trails. So areas are gated off and 00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:57.336 we are told still shared with the 00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:59.176 community. The logging industry 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.256 currently maintains the fire brakes, 00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:03.816 bush tracks and emergency exit routes. 00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:06.136 If forestry departs, the burden falls on 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.216 an already stretched national parks 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.096 budget. Forestry Corporation operates on 00:20:11.120 --> 00:20:13.655 a fraction of that, about $30 million 00:20:13.679 --> 00:20:15.416 per year. That last year I believe it 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.816 was 32 million. while keeping lands 00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:19.655 productive and accessible for things 00:20:19.679 --> 00:20:22.056 like hiking, free camping, mountain 00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:24.216 biking, forward driving as well as 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.240 logging and other industry. 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.376 If forestry departs, the burden falls on 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.015 the already stretched national sorry if 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:34.936 we lose state forest, we not only lose 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:37.960 these activities but employment for so 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.856 many even outside of the logging. So for 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.096 that $32 million we get employment and 00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:46.120 we get enjoyment. 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.240 Proponents for the other side say rely 00:20:49.360 --> 00:20:51.576 heavily on a theoretical concept called 00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:54.600 microclimate homeostatis championed by 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.535 groups of the Australian university and 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.775 the curtain university which assumes 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:00.216 that if we just lock up the forest and 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.736 leave them alone they will keep 00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:04.760 themselves too wet to burn. 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:06.296 This is in direct conflict with the 00:21:06.320 --> 00:21:07.816 stated position of the University of 00:21:07.840 --> 00:21:09.736 Melbourne, the University of Adelaide, 00:21:09.760 --> 00:21:11.416 Southern Cross University, the 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.736 University of Sunshine Coast, Rural Fire 00:21:13.760 --> 00:21:16.376 Services and Forestry Australia. Plus, 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.616 these are supported by our own national 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:21.096 authority, the CSIRO. 00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:23.015 All demanding active management to 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.976 maintain fire trails as well as sorry to 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.736 maintain fire threats as well as 00:21:27.760 --> 00:21:29.576 aggressive fuel reduction to protect 00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:31.895 human life. We can't gamble community 00:21:31.919 --> 00:21:34.919 safety on localized academic theory. 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.576 How much land is affected by logging? 00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:42.216 Let's look at the 70 by one by 1% rule. 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.456 National parks accounts for over 70% of 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.336 public bush lands. And of this, only 1% 00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:50.360 is state forest. Of that 1%, forestry 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.416 only harvests 1% of their land holdings 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.440 per year. So 1% of 1% of 70% equals 00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:00.360 0.007% 0007% of our total available land 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:04.039 is harvested each year. 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.456 With national parks, as we know, come 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.696 lots of gates. Lots and lots of gates. 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:10.535 How is it fair and equitable to our 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.535 elderly as well as other community 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.936 members with mobility restrictions when 00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.616 the gates themselves create a barrier, 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:19.015 which means Nana will now have to walk 5 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.039 km to the creek she grew up in as a kid. 00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:23.816 Or my mate's wife who is in a 00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:25.895 wheelchair. She can still drive, but she 00:22:25.919 --> 00:22:28.135 can't drive through your locked gate. 00:22:28.159 --> 00:22:30.616 How is this providing equity of access? 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:32.696 Councelor C, sorry, councelor Steele, 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.096 your time is up. Sorry. 00:22:35.120 --> 00:22:35.736 That's fine. 00:22:35.760 --> 00:22:36.216 Thank you. 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.015 Thank you. 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.039 So, I go to councelor Crystalitis. 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:42.616 Thank you, madam. Thank you everybody 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:44.936 for listen to that. Really well 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:46.456 researched by the way and and very 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:49.480 enjoyable to to see um some of those 00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:52.600 plans. Um 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:54.056 the interesting part for me is that we 00:22:54.080 --> 00:22:55.416 don't really control any of that. We're 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.440 a council, local council. That's the 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.056 biggest thing. And and very little of 00:23:00.080 --> 00:23:01.736 this actually relates to the notice of 00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:03.895 motion that's in front of us. Um there's 00:23:03.919 --> 00:23:06.919 no mention of a petition. Um the 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.616 I I learned the term virtue flexing, 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:12.056 which is really cool. I assume it's 00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:14.696 similar to virtue signaling, which comes 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:15.736 about. 00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:17.336 Just a couple of things in the notice of 00:23:17.360 --> 00:23:18.696 motion as I bring it back to what's 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.720 actually in front of us. The bit in this 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.535 I think it's a bit um it's clearly 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:25.895 because it says it in the notes that 00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:27.895 it's just in response to what happened 00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:30.919 um two meetings ago. Um a motion we 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.895 voted was voted down by this council and 00:23:33.919 --> 00:23:36.456 now we have this response which is 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.480 somewhat tit for tat and based again a 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.416 lot in some kind of ideology. Again, we 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.015 hear hear in this council a lot about 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:47.655 how we're a business. We run like a 00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:49.015 business. We should be. I don't think 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:50.376 that's true personally, but we hear 00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:51.496 about it. So, I'm going to ask a 00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:54.520 question about the where where is it 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.960 par five and everything that goes on 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.456 after that. If you're running a 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.296 restaurant and the clothing shop across 00:24:02.320 --> 00:24:04.535 the road is going to shut down, do you 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:06.456 volunteer your time and money to 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.856 rehabilitate those people? 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.696 These people aren't our employees, the 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.856 state government employees. We don't do 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:15.576 that. That's not on us. We don't have a 00:24:15.600 --> 00:24:17.816 department of rehabilitating 00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:19.496 businesses that have been shut down. 00:24:19.520 --> 00:24:20.936 In fact, that that will come through the 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.960 the shutdown process. The and forestry 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.255 corporation's not going to fund it 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.936 through us. It'll be funded through the 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.960 state government. Of course, the 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.015 again it sounds sounds really it's well 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:37.576 written and and well and it presents 00:24:37.600 --> 00:24:39.496 well this not this notice of motion 00:24:39.520 --> 00:24:42.520 but it's just way above what our council 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.936 is meant to be doing. The the state 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.096 government and the authorities that are 00:24:47.120 --> 00:24:49.576 invested there will do this without our 00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:52.135 input, without our help 00:24:52.159 --> 00:24:54.296 and certainly without any decision-m on 00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:57.320 our part. All we can do in the end is 00:24:57.520 --> 00:25:00.456 comply with what's been done and and 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.480 away we go. So the you know and the the 00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:06.296 inevitability even is and I think we 00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.535 know this is that native forest logging 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.015 is has been blocked in most of the 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:12.376 country now and it's likely to happen 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:14.456 here. It's been discussed already at 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.696 state government and this is a a bit of 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.576 a I don't know a misnomer a 00:25:19.600 --> 00:25:21.576 misleading thing based in ideology that 00:25:21.600 --> 00:25:23.576 I just don't think our council should be 00:25:23.600 --> 00:25:26.600 should be even looking at. and that's 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:28.936 about all I have to say on it. Thank you 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:29.895 very much. 00:25:29.919 --> 00:25:32.919 Thank you councelor yeah councelor 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.559 Kian. 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.616 I rise to speak against the motion as 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:43.640 well. Um, we've just heard a lot of 00:25:45.120 --> 00:25:48.120 information about an international 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.400 conspiracy to close our access to and 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.096 enjoyment of the bush land that we love 00:25:55.120 --> 00:25:58.120 and value so much. And I agree with 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.655 councelor Chris Quicolades that this is 00:26:01.679 --> 00:26:04.296 not what this motion is about. It's also 00:26:04.320 --> 00:26:06.135 not what the one that was voted down in 00:26:06.159 --> 00:26:08.535 March was about. 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.015 national parks, the people who signed 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.576 petitions about Big Spotty and the NA 00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:16.600 the Broomman forest and who signed big 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.336 petitions to stop native forest 00:26:19.360 --> 00:26:21.576 logging. They're not stupid. They're not 00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:23.576 signing things that they don't know what 00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:25.576 they're signing for. Most of those 00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:28.535 people will know that the federal 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:31.496 government environmental protection laws 00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:34.520 last year changed and New South Wales 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.736 like the other states who still log 00:26:37.760 --> 00:26:39.816 native forests will have to cease 00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:42.056 logging native forests. 00:26:42.080 --> 00:26:45.080 As far as the residents of the Shaw 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.816 Shoalhaven and beyond who are engaged in 00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:50.456 working in logging, this is a reality 00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:52.376 that is coming and it's been coming for 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:54.616 20 years. 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.856 One of the things that I would say very 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.856 clearly is that it is the state 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.655 government's role to rehabilitate to 00:27:01.679 --> 00:27:04.376 assist people to transition from 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.400 industries that are no longer going to 00:27:07.600 --> 00:27:10.296 be allowed to operate and that needs to 00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:12.535 be a process that is consultative and 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:14.616 it's going to cost money and it should 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.535 be happening now and people should be 00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:18.696 being engaged in that. They have the 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.720 right to do that. As for creating 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:24.775 national parks which are instantly going 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:26.535 to shut down everybody's enjoyment of 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.336 the bush, that is an absurd notion. A 00:27:29.360 --> 00:27:32.360 completely absurd notion. Bees in the 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:35.336 national forest, bees in the in the 00:27:35.360 --> 00:27:37.255 national parks. There are already 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.279 significant licenses for aperies in 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.456 national parks across this state and 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.296 there is no reason why that would 00:27:44.320 --> 00:27:47.320 change. There are camping sites. There 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.240 are enjoyment access sites right through 00:27:51.919 --> 00:27:54.616 national parks. And the fact that 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.936 hundreds of thousands of New South Wales 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.816 residents visit the national parks every 00:27:59.840 --> 00:28:02.840 year and enjoy them are an indication 00:28:03.919 --> 00:28:06.856 that this if it were to become a 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:08.535 national park, it's not proposed as a 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:10.456 national park, it's proposed as a flora 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.616 reserve, but if it were to become a 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.176 national park that it would be a a great 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.255 source of enjoyment for the community. 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.336 And if it becomes a national park that 00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:22.360 links up our bush all the way south into 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.279 a great southern national park, 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.640 creating a great fervor and a fear of 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.416 what this will mean and how things will 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:35.655 be taken away from us is not going to 00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:37.496 change the fact that Australians love 00:28:37.520 --> 00:28:39.816 our national parks. We love them and we 00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:41.416 will continue to love them and we will 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.056 continue to support their development 00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:46.535 and their 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.559 their care of the bush. Yes. And their 00:28:49.760 --> 00:28:52.760 care for fire support because nobody is 00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:55.736 suggesting that any forest be locked 00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:58.760 down and left and not cared for. Of 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:00.856 course that would be a fire risk. We 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:02.775 think we can do much better than 00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:05.416 forestry has done in caring for the 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.176 bush. you only have to go and have a 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.616 look at the mess that's left behind 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.856 after some of the forestry work and see 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.015 that there's fuel all over the ground. 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.039 So we we seek to improve that to improve 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:19.255 access to improve the roads to improve 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.279 the amenity for the locals who live 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.880 around the area um and even within 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.000 national parks. This these things are 00:29:30.320 --> 00:29:33.255 sympathetic. they can be compatible and 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.279 there is no need for anyone to create a 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.096 great fear and concern. So I will be 00:29:39.120 --> 00:29:41.416 voting against this motion because it is 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:44.135 not a useful motion. It's not asking us 00:29:44.159 --> 00:29:46.535 to do anything constructive. It's just 00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.696 trying to create fear. 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.720 Thank you councelor Kemp. 00:29:54.080 --> 00:29:57.080 Thank you very much Madame May. Um, 00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.496 look, I think we've been here before 00:29:59.520 --> 00:30:02.520 with the arborists. Similar situation. 00:30:03.120 --> 00:30:05.496 It's all happening again. Who wouldn't 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:08.520 support local industry? 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:10.375 Logging families, people that are going 00:30:10.399 --> 00:30:11.736 without jobs. What do you think is going 00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:14.760 to happen to the area if we don't have 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.576 industry, which is what the Shoalhaven 00:30:17.600 --> 00:30:20.296 was built on? 00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:21.576 We've been here before with the 00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:23.895 arborist. Now it's the Logans loggers 00:30:23.919 --> 00:30:25.895 turns. Where do you think they're going 00:30:25.919 --> 00:30:28.616 to work? 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.936 And then as um councelor Killian just 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.096 said, "Oh, there's a whole heap of fuel 00:30:33.120 --> 00:30:35.336 on the ground. We all seem to forget the 00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:36.856 fires." 00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:39.655 And then what's happening now? Ticks. 00:30:39.679 --> 00:30:42.216 Ticks are everywhere. So, I think kids 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.015 are doing a fantastic job. You It's just 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.416 out of control. So, enjoy your ticks 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.440 this coming summer and your vet bills. 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.416 I've got some real concerns about our 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.135 state member, Liza Butler, who's gone 00:30:56.159 --> 00:30:58.056 over the top of council's head, hasn't 00:30:58.080 --> 00:31:00.856 come to council. None of us counselor 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.880 have had discussions with this at all 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.895 and somehow come out with 16,000 00:31:07.919 --> 00:31:09.895 signatures. 00:31:09.919 --> 00:31:11.895 I'd like to see and verify those 00:31:11.919 --> 00:31:14.456 signatures where they suddenly because I 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:17.480 for one know how much work is involved 00:31:17.919 --> 00:31:20.919 to get 5,000 signatures. So where the 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.216 16,000 signatures come across from a 00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:27.240 state member, it goes against people in 00:31:28.159 --> 00:31:31.159 industry is not a good thing. People 00:31:32.080 --> 00:31:34.535 shouldn't support people to go out of 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:37.176 jobs to put their families out of work 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.056 for 70 days like the arburess and now 00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:43.080 you're looking at the loggers really. 00:31:46.080 --> 00:31:49.080 I've got concerns about legalities 00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:52.216 when the logging company's got licenses, 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.240 approvals, and agreements in place 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.000 with the forestry and the state. How can 00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:02.600 we be overriding this in council? 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.696 Are we overriding again just like what 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.576 happened with the arborist? Is it ultra 00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:11.576 virus? 00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:14.600 Is it even legal if we go making rules 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.416 in council when there's state rules 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.440 already in place to protect the laws? 00:32:21.679 --> 00:32:23.736 Big Spotty's always been protected over 00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:25.255 50 years. I'll keep screaming that 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:27.495 because I'm sick of seeing it online. 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.895 protect Big Spotty. It's already been 00:32:29.919 --> 00:32:32.919 protected for over 50 years by forestry 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:36.856 and decades before forestry even got 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.880 onto it by the loggers. 00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:42.535 They didn't have to. They did. So don't 00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:43.895 tell me they're not doing the right 00:32:43.919 --> 00:32:46.056 thing. 00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:49.080 Right. Again, Liza Butler told people 00:32:49.120 --> 00:32:51.655 out Brimman that the sheep track, and 00:32:51.679 --> 00:32:54.679 it's on Facebook, was owned by council 00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:56.936 and that the state member had given 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.655 300,000 to repair the roads out there 00:32:59.679 --> 00:33:02.456 and council hasn't done anything. Well, 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.616 that's not true. The sheep track is 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.640 owned by forestry. 00:33:08.159 --> 00:33:09.816 So, let's get the facts straight in 00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:12.840 here. 00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:15.880 I don't know anybody that would knock 00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:19.080 families out, 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.336 business out, 00:33:23.360 --> 00:33:26.360 people's jobs out, families out of work. 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.015 I don't know any council that would do 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:33.495 that. 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:36.296 Please support the motion. 00:33:36.320 --> 00:33:39.320 Thank you, councelor Casmir. 00:33:39.760 --> 00:33:42.535 Thank you. 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.559 I I'd like to look at it from a slightly 00:33:45.600 --> 00:33:48.535 different viewpoint if I may. 00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.559 We 00:33:51.600 --> 00:33:53.176 council 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.200 use of technology by councelor 00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:57.816 um 00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:00.775 Kiam. She's on the phone texting away. I 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:02.856 would like to enforce the code of 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.880 meeting practice as far as technology. 00:34:06.159 --> 00:34:08.696 So point of order, all counselors should 00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:11.720 not be using their devices, either the 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.159 computers or the com or the phone to to 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.800 let me finish to be broadcasting to 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.000 people outside of this meeting. 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.055 I'm just I was not doing that. I open up 00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:28.135 an email from the staff today talking 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:30.936 about the sheep track road. So I can do 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:32.776 it on my computer because I've got my 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.615 computer in front of me. I was looking 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.456 on the phone. So I'm just warning I'm 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.095 just sending a warning 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:39.895 to the assumption. 00:34:39.919 --> 00:34:42.919 I am dealing with all counselors 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.895 that they are looking at what is going 00:34:45.919 --> 00:34:48.919 out of this meeting on devices. So 00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:50.936 councelor Kemp, I've dealt with the 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.335 point of order. Council KZ Mary. 00:34:53.359 --> 00:34:56.359 Thank you madame mayor. , as I said, I 00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.376 like to look at it from a different 00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.400 viewpoint and and use u what I was told 00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:03.815 when I first came to Australia. Somebody 00:35:03.839 --> 00:35:05.976 told me, "Mike, you cannot see the 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.216 timber from the trees." And I never 00:35:08.240 --> 00:35:11.240 understood what that meant until now. We 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.136 talking about timber. 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:16.055 Forget about trees. It's timber that 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.456 we're talking about. And timber is an 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.480 essential resource in this economy. 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.376 timber we used to build houses decade 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:27.400 even with wood chips we make panels so 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.296 it's timber that we're talking about and 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:32.696 we're talking about a major resource in 00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:35.496 this country that we've been used for 00:35:35.520 --> 00:35:38.520 thousands of years now what I also like 00:35:38.560 --> 00:35:41.496 to point out that the Australian 00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:43.095 industry 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.119 in the timber business they contribute 00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:49.560 about $9 billion and 50,000 jobs but 00:35:50.640 --> 00:35:52.296 what I found alarming 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.320 is that back in 2019 00:35:56.160 --> 00:35:59.160 the industry contribute 23.9 million 00:35:59.839 --> 00:36:02.376 billion dollars to the economy not 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.055 knowing. So I thought something is 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.575 wrong. So let me do a bit of homework 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.216 here. So I do what I do every weekend. I 00:36:08.240 --> 00:36:10.696 go to Barnings and next time you go to 00:36:10.720 --> 00:36:13.656 Bings have a look at the timber and see 00:36:13.680 --> 00:36:16.296 the little stickers on the timber. Guess 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:19.320 where he's coming from? New Zealand, 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.856 Malaysia, all over the world. Actually, 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.880 if you ever go to ASON, sorry, it's now 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:28.616 M to 10. Have a look at the blue painted 00:36:28.640 --> 00:36:30.376 timber. There's a little stick in the 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.400 bottom says from Brazil. We importing 00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:37.095 timber from Brazil in Australia. And 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:38.536 we're talking about protecting your 00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:40.856 forest, protecting your trees. Well, in 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:42.536 Brazil, they're cutting millions of tons 00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:45.560 every day. So, my my my point is this. I 00:36:46.640 --> 00:36:49.640 support the motion from one viewpoint. 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:53.079 It's an industry. We need it and timber 00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:56.055 is essential to our economy and 00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:57.976 essential to build our houses and 00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:59.736 everything else that goes with it. And 00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.760 what I find ironic that we talking about 00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:06.296 timber at a time where we have a 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.776 disaster with petrol because we relying 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.800 up petrol coming from overseas. So 00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.536 what's going to be next? We want to be 00:37:14.560 --> 00:37:17.016 able to build houses only if timber by 00:37:17.040 --> 00:37:19.496 council in Brazil. That that's my point 00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:21.256 and that's why I support the motion. 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:21.896 Thank you. 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:24.055 Thank you. Can 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:26.856 can I just can I just check councelor 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:28.536 Brownford? Did you put your hand up to 00:37:28.560 --> 00:37:29.416 speak? 00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.440 Yep. You're next. Thank you. 00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:35.416 Thanks, Madam Chair. I do support 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:38.440 councelor Steele's u wellress researched 00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.040 motion wellressearched speech 00:37:43.040 --> 00:37:46.040 that he made and to answer one 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:49.095 council that said that we shouldn't be 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:50.776 debating this sort of an issue. It's not 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.335 really council's business. 00:37:53.359 --> 00:37:56.136 Well, some time ago, I came into this 00:37:56.160 --> 00:37:58.536 chamber into this place and I I moved 00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:01.560 the motion on same-sex marriage and I 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.536 got support went through 12 votes to one 00:38:04.560 --> 00:38:05.976 and so we sent that off to the 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.296 authorities that this council supports 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.320 same-sex marriage. I also move the 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.480 motion to support the Shoalhaven as a 00:38:16.560 --> 00:38:19.335 refugee friendly city 00:38:19.359 --> 00:38:22.359 and that motion went through 130. 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:25.496 I also moved the motion Ularoo statement 00:38:25.520 --> 00:38:28.055 from the heart and that motion went 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:30.616 through 121 and they're very important 00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:32.696 topics that that we are here to 00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:34.616 represent our people and be a voice of 00:38:34.640 --> 00:38:36.136 lobby. 00:38:36.160 --> 00:38:38.216 And so on on the notice of motion 00:38:38.240 --> 00:38:40.055 protecting communities right to access 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.055 community areas and protect our logging 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.376 workers and and of course they should be 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.400 protected. we hear that to create a 00:38:48.240 --> 00:38:50.696 nature reserve well nothing much 00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:52.936 changes. it's just a nature reserve and 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.496 and the roads get looked after and 00:38:55.520 --> 00:38:57.095 you can still wander through and enjoy 00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.656 yourself. So, nothing much changes. 00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:01.976 Well, if that's the case, why why change 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:04.376 it at all? Leave it leave it the way it 00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:07.400 is. Leave it the way it is. And my 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.736 reflection upon what's happened in many 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.575 of our state recreation areas, and I've 00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:13.256 had a lot of experience with these in 00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.280 our state, is that the state 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:19.416 government's budget changes from time to 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:20.856 time. 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:22.696 And one of the first things to change is 00:39:22.720 --> 00:39:25.575 access to these areas. The areas that we 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:27.335 cherish, that we enjoy, that we like to 00:39:27.359 --> 00:39:30.055 walk through and recreate in to ride our 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.079 mountain bikes through. It all changes 00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:36.376 and suddenly you're denied access or the 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:39.176 the tracks become overgrown. The the 00:39:39.200 --> 00:39:42.200 local RFS people tear their hair out 00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:44.536 because the the fire trails become 00:39:44.560 --> 00:39:46.216 overgrown. 00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:48.616 That's what happens when budgets change, 00:39:48.640 --> 00:39:50.296 when state governments change their way 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.936 of thinking andor decide to direct money 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.016 somewhere else in their wisdom or lack 00:39:55.040 --> 00:39:58.040 thereof. So I would suggest that we take 00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.376 a deep breath and we know that big 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:02.776 spotty has been protected largely by the 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:04.536 the good people down there at Broomman 00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:06.136 Forest, largely by the logging workers 00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:08.856 and and local communities and leave it 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:11.176 that way for the future knowing that it 00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:13.095 will always be protected. Thanks madam. 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:14.776 Thank you councelor Proud. Councelor 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:17.800 Tribe. 00:40:19.520 --> 00:40:22.520 Um, thank you, Madame May. I I know 00:40:22.640 --> 00:40:24.696 there is a lot of discussion about 00:40:24.720 --> 00:40:26.616 peripheral issues going on, but looking 00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:29.640 at the the recommendation before us, it 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.760 it strikes me that a lot of this is 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:36.280 fairly reasonable. Um 00:40:36.640 --> 00:40:39.416 the the part that I I guess I I can't 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.440 get behind is 6A and I feel that it's 00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:47.640 tying hands like a decision for future 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:51.880 um decision makers. and so I I really 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:56.376 I I guess I'll have a crack at seeing 00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:58.536 if the mover will accept an amendment 00:40:58.560 --> 00:41:01.560 that we remove part A. 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:04.936 I can't I can't agree to that. Madam 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:05.575 Mayor, 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.896 so councelor Steele does not agree with 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.176 me removing part A. 00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:11.095 Yep. In that case then I I'll have to 00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:13.335 speak against unfortunately because as I 00:41:13.359 --> 00:41:15.496 said I do feel that that ties the hands 00:41:15.520 --> 00:41:18.520 of future generations of decision makers 00:41:19.040 --> 00:41:22.040 and even the deputy the the older 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:25.016 gentleman who spoke initially who was 00:41:25.040 --> 00:41:27.496 very knowledgeable people can go back 00:41:27.520 --> 00:41:29.575 and watch the tape. he even seemed to 00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:31.976 feel that 60 m radius was not enough of 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:33.656 a protection zone and I guess when you 00:41:33.680 --> 00:41:35.416 think about the height of the tree and 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.216 the root system that that makes sense 00:41:38.240 --> 00:41:41.240 to me. So I guess ruling out any 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:44.216 future changes would would not be 00:41:44.240 --> 00:41:46.856 appropriate on those grounds. Um I do 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:48.216 want to also thank everyone who 00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:49.976 submitted questions on this for any 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.456 residents who were concerned. there 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.136 are publicly available questions and 00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:56.616 answers. quite a lot of myths 00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:58.616 debunked there. So if residents do have 00:41:58.640 --> 00:42:00.936 fears, it would be worth checking 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:03.016 those out and just understanding how 00:42:03.040 --> 00:42:05.016 private property won't won't be affected 00:42:05.040 --> 00:42:08.040 by decisions made to national park. 00:42:08.240 --> 00:42:10.376 So those are all published as well and 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.400 and very useful for this discussion. 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.440 Thank you. So I'm up to councelor Boyd. 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:23.736 Firstly, there is no concrete proposal 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.055 before the New South Wales Parliament to 00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.815 declare the Broomman Straight Forest of 00:42:27.839 --> 00:42:30.839 a floral a flora reserve. Um there is a 00:42:31.040 --> 00:42:32.936 local petition circulating in which 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:34.856 petitioners are seeking to have the area 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:36.776 around Big Spotty declared a flora 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:39.800 reserve. Um and as the letter from the 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.376 southern region manager of the forestry 00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:44.856 corporation states, floor reserves are 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.856 managed by the New South Wales forestry 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:49.416 corporation. So 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.976 um it will be managed under their 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.696 opaces. Floor reserves are declared in 00:42:54.720 --> 00:42:56.536 state forest to preserve a particular 00:42:56.560 --> 00:42:58.776 plant or plant ecosystem. In this case 00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.776 it would be big spotty in the ecosystem 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.095 that surrounds it. They are managed by 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.119 the New South Wales Forest Corporation 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.536 and individual floor reserves have their 00:43:08.560 --> 00:43:10.376 own plan of management that lists the 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:13.400 activities that are allowed in it 00:43:13.680 --> 00:43:16.680 and grazing and harvesting of timber are 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.095 not permitted in the floor reserve. The 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:21.256 forest corporation continues to manage 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:24.055 the state forest outside the reserve but 00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.536 everything else stays the same to in 00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:29.016 relation to private land. It remains the 00:43:29.040 --> 00:43:32.040 same. Council zoning remains the same. 00:43:32.240 --> 00:43:34.456 It doesn't affect the people around it. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:36.536 It affects the area within the state 00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:39.560 forest that's declared a flora reserve. 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.055 Any suggestion that a declared flora 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:43.976 reserve around big spotty will restrict 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.976 horse riding and four-wheel driving or 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:47.976 mountain biking in Broomman State Forest 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.936 generally is completely unfounded. 00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.095 Um the forest corporation works closely 00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.176 with the RFS and they actually operate 00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:57.815 under the same legislation and they liaz 00:43:57.839 --> 00:44:00.295 under a number of groups at a state 00:44:00.319 --> 00:44:02.216 level and at a local level as well 00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:04.696 through bushfire management committees. 00:44:04.720 --> 00:44:07.416 Plus the RFS is the lead agency when it 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:09.095 comes to fighting bush fires. So they 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.575 are inextricably linked with the forest 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:13.656 corporation. So there is a lot of 00:44:13.680 --> 00:44:16.680 cooperation between the two. 00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:18.856 Um the forestry corp is responsible for 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.936 managing fire and fire risk in state 00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:22.376 forest. So it means they need to 00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.616 maintain the roads and fire trails to 00:44:24.640 --> 00:44:26.295 access 00:44:26.319 --> 00:44:28.856 access so that the roads can the roads 00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.776 are maintained to a reasonable level. So 00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:33.800 there is no problem with um access to 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:35.815 state forests which is what we're 00:44:35.839 --> 00:44:37.896 talking about. 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.656 I think it's a great idea to request 00:44:39.680 --> 00:44:41.656 that the forestry corporation fund a 00:44:41.680 --> 00:44:43.896 boardwalk walk to big spotty which is 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.376 included in this recommendation 00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:48.776 and I as a labor council obvious 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.856 counselor I fully support an appropriate 00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.776 transition plan for any workers who are 00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.936 put out of work because of changes in 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.856 government policy the same that is done 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.496 with every change to people's work 00:44:59.520 --> 00:45:02.520 situations if policies change and I 00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:05.335 certainly support those two those two 00:45:05.359 --> 00:45:07.896 elements of the recommendation 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.295 But a lot of these other recommendations 00:45:10.319 --> 00:45:13.319 are, as um councelor Tribe said, they 00:45:13.520 --> 00:45:15.575 are for future decision makers. They're 00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:18.599 not for us to comment on right now. Um 00:45:18.720 --> 00:45:21.720 our I believe any submission that we 00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.920 make on this issue will be falling in a 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.896 a black hole because 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:29.575 none of these things are relevant to 00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.536 anything that's happening at the moment. 00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:34.136 Thank you. 00:45:34.160 --> 00:45:37.160 So, is there any further speakers? 00:45:38.319 --> 00:45:39.815 If there's no further speakers, I'll 00:45:39.839 --> 00:45:41.095 just speak and then I'll go back to 00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:43.496 write a reply. Um, sitting here 00:45:43.520 --> 00:45:44.936 listening to the bait and actually 00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:46.536 listening to councelor Steele's 00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:49.256 presentation, I think I need a a reality 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.280 check. As council proud said, I've sat 00:45:53.359 --> 00:45:56.359 in this chamber over the last 13 years. 00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.440 We wouldn't have the JB turnoff and the 00:46:00.640 --> 00:46:03.335 works that have been done down there if 00:46:03.359 --> 00:46:06.295 it wasn't for this council. It would not 00:46:06.319 --> 00:46:08.936 have happened. Transport had no 00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:10.856 intentions of putting that fly over 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:13.575 there. No intentions. And the council 00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:16.216 worked very hard with them and the staff 00:46:16.240 --> 00:46:18.776 at the time to make sure we got it right 00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:20.295 after we went through about eight 00:46:20.319 --> 00:46:22.856 different attempts to get it done. We 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:24.696 wouldn't have Shoalhaven Hospital 00:46:24.720 --> 00:46:27.656 upgrade if this council didn't write to 00:46:27.680 --> 00:46:30.680 the state government and support that. 00:46:31.040 --> 00:46:32.456 And you will remember if you're on 00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:34.136 council, they wanted to move the 00:46:34.160 --> 00:46:37.160 hospital. Councilors here actively 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:40.536 pursued a new location, but it was put 00:46:40.560 --> 00:46:43.560 up there. It's now built. So, I don't 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:45.896 believe that this is not a matter for 00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:48.536 council because we represent the 00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:51.416 residents and we talk to the residents. 00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:53.976 we consult with the residents. So, it is 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.815 a matter for council to look at things 00:46:55.839 --> 00:46:58.055 happening in the area and telling the 00:46:58.079 --> 00:46:59.736 state government and telling the federal 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.055 government whether we support it or we 00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:04.216 don't support it because we're the ones 00:47:04.240 --> 00:47:05.335 that have got to go back to the 00:47:05.359 --> 00:47:07.496 residents and tell them what is 00:47:07.520 --> 00:47:10.520 happening in relation to future. 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:13.656 The state government can walk in here 00:47:13.680 --> 00:47:16.680 tomorrow and reszone all of that land. 00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:19.896 We would have no say. So what we're 00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.856 doing is putting our say upfront that we 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.176 would not support it. We would be told 00:47:25.200 --> 00:47:28.200 to do it and it would happen. And I've 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.536 seen it happen all over the place with 00:47:30.560 --> 00:47:33.016 the reasonzoning from state government. 00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:35.016 In relation to the roads out there, the 00:47:35.040 --> 00:47:36.776 roads out there, the forestry roads out 00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.800 there are only maintained by forestry 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:43.480 but when they are logging out there. And 00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:46.216 I've had lots of residents write to me 00:47:46.240 --> 00:47:48.536 and say, "Council, can you please go out 00:47:48.560 --> 00:47:50.616 and grade this road? Can you do works on 00:47:50.640 --> 00:47:53.575 this road? We cannot do it because they 00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:55.736 are not our roads." 00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.456 And look at Danger Board, the bridge 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:01.480 down at Danger Board Road. Now that 00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:03.896 burnt down. There was a big hoo-ha about 00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:06.776 who owned that road. And next thing, the 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.736 minister just signed it off to council. 00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:12.216 Now it's your responsibility, council. 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:13.976 And with the roads out there, they can 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.536 just sign it off. And then we talk about 00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:19.335 access. Once we get these floral 00:48:19.359 --> 00:48:21.575 reserves or national parks in there, go 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:24.599 for a drive out to Tiara Tanjara Falls 00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:27.256 and try to go down the state forest 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.656 road. Sorry, the roads down through 00:48:29.680 --> 00:48:32.055 there. The national park roads have all 00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:35.079 been gated off. We gate off roads 00:48:35.359 --> 00:48:38.055 everywhere. So you cannot get access to 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:40.616 them. this is what is happening in 00:48:40.640 --> 00:48:42.856 reality. Don't say, "Oh, it's not going 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:44.776 to happen. It's somebody else that needs 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.416 to make this decision in years to come." 00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:49.496 No, we need to start protesting on it 00:48:49.520 --> 00:48:51.256 now, saying it's not acceptable to this 00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:54.280 council. If we lose, if we have to get 00:48:54.319 --> 00:48:57.319 the roads and we all know the state 00:48:57.520 --> 00:48:58.776 government or the federal government 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.800 will just sh send costs across to 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:04.696 council wherever they can, we will be 00:49:04.720 --> 00:49:06.456 responsible. And who's going to pay for 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:08.616 the upgrades of the road? who's going to 00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:10.376 pay for the gates, etc. when it gets 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:12.456 gated off. It might not be happening 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.016 tomorrow, but tell me if all of this 00:49:15.040 --> 00:49:16.295 stuff and we've had the whole 00:49:16.319 --> 00:49:19.256 presentation here by Brett and he's done 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.216 a magnificent job doing his research. If 00:49:22.240 --> 00:49:24.136 we have that present if you look at 00:49:24.160 --> 00:49:25.736 that presentation, this will be 00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:28.696 happening in within a 5-year period. 00:49:28.720 --> 00:49:31.575 And we can't allow it to happen. We 00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:33.496 can't because we've seen it happen all 00:49:33.520 --> 00:49:36.456 before. And you can go anywhere in the 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.480 state and see it happened all before. So 00:49:39.839 --> 00:49:41.976 what about when they reszone? Oh, we're 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.256 going to have a national park. Oh, 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:45.256 sorry. We're going to compulsory acquire 00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:48.136 your properties and they get compulsory 00:49:48.160 --> 00:49:51.095 acquired, which they can do and they're 00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:52.456 all going through that now with the 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:54.616 Milton Nola bypass and the problems 00:49:54.640 --> 00:49:56.776 we're having there, right? But let's say 00:49:56.800 --> 00:49:59.800 they acquire and they can do it. We lose 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:03.400 all our rate base. So we lose rates in 00:50:03.839 --> 00:50:05.335 the council. So, who's going to make up 00:50:05.359 --> 00:50:07.656 those rate bases? Oh, we'll just put the 00:50:07.680 --> 00:50:10.680 rates up. There are big implications. 00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:13.815 So, I would ask all councilors to put 00:50:13.839 --> 00:50:16.776 support this recommendation. 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.800 Councelor Steele, write a reply. 00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.295 Um, okay. This isn't a case of tit for 00:50:24.319 --> 00:50:26.136 tat. 00:50:26.160 --> 00:50:29.160 These motions prior to this one 00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:32.760 seem to raise no from any sectors of the 00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.095 of the community and yet suddenly 00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.736 tonight this strikes, you know, strikes 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:38.696 some people in the wrong spot. 00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:41.095 Apparently, this isn't a tit for tat. 00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:42.535 This is about choosing who you're here 00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.416 to represent. We swore an oath to this 00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:47.416 community. We swore an oath to this 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:50.136 council. I didn't swear an oath to an 00:50:50.160 --> 00:50:53.016 agenda or an ideology, which is what 00:50:53.040 --> 00:50:55.016 this is about. This is being forced onto 00:50:55.040 --> 00:50:57.416 our residents or the intention is to 00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:00.440 force it onto our residents. And if 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:02.055 we're not going to have our residents 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:04.776 back, we don't deserve to be here. As 00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.800 simple as that. So, we're seeing urban 00:51:08.240 --> 00:51:09.815 policies being exported to the Shaw 00:51:09.839 --> 00:51:11.656 Shoalhaven by the likes of the Nature 00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:13.656 Conservation Council, the National Parks 00:51:13.680 --> 00:51:15.335 Association. 00:51:15.359 --> 00:51:17.176 Again, not to be mistaken for our own 00:51:17.200 --> 00:51:19.176 National Parks and Wildlife Services and 00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:20.535 Forest Alliance, who seem to have no 00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:22.136 regard for job losses and bushfire 00:51:22.160 --> 00:51:23.496 threats. 00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:25.416 The broom and flora reserve petition is 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.016 not about one tree. It's about meeting a 00:51:27.040 --> 00:51:29.416 federal 30 by30 quota committed to by 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.335 our federal government whereby our local 00:51:31.359 --> 00:51:32.936 workers and industry are being 00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:34.856 sacrificed at the order of globalist 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:37.176 ideologies. This is where they gate off 00:51:37.200 --> 00:51:39.095 the bush and decommission roads and 00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:40.535 claim to still be sharing the forest 00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.095 with the public. Gated roads and 00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.095 unmaintained bush tracks are man-made 00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:47.095 fire traps for community members as well 00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:49.176 as our firefighters. The 00:51:49.200 --> 00:51:51.095 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.176 Change recognizes that sustainably 00:51:53.200 --> 00:51:55.736 managed production forests that maintain 00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:58.136 carbon in growth trees whilst producing 00:51:58.160 --> 00:52:00.616 an annual yield of timber deliver a 00:52:00.640 --> 00:52:03.095 large sustainable climate change 00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:05.496 mitigation benefit. 00:52:05.520 --> 00:52:07.496 I'm going to repeat that the 00:52:07.520 --> 00:52:09.335 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 00:52:09.359 --> 00:52:11.736 Change recognizes that sustainably 00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.896 managed production forests that maintain 00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:16.376 carbon in growing trees whilst producing 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:19.400 an annual yield in timber delivers a 00:52:19.839 --> 00:52:22.216 large sustained climate change 00:52:22.240 --> 00:52:25.240 mitigating benefit. 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:27.575 To those who might suggest that Steele 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.416 and cement might take the place of 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:31.335 timber in construction, you're 00:52:31.359 --> 00:52:33.416 forgetting your own basic principles. 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:35.976 Wood locks up and stores carbon for the 00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.000 entirety of its existence. 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:43.656 Steele requires mining of the ore as well 00:52:43.680 --> 00:52:46.376 as the coal to smelt it with 00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:49.400 accounting for 9% of total world CO2 00:52:49.680 --> 00:52:51.176 emissions. 00:52:51.200 --> 00:52:54.200 Concrete accounts for 8% of total world 00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:57.559 CO2 emissions on top of that. So that's 00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.776 17% of the world's total CO2 emissions 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:02.776 that activists are supporting instead of 00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.656 locking up that carbon. This isn't not 00:53:05.680 --> 00:53:07.815 environmentalism. 00:53:07.839 --> 00:53:10.839 It's logic and ecological failure. We 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:12.535 should be using more timber if we want 00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.335 to reduce CO2. I ask my fellow 00:53:15.359 --> 00:53:17.095 counselors to remember we have sworn an 00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:18.776 oath to our community, not an agenda and 00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:21.800 not an ideology. 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:23.496 I hope we have as many residents 00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:25.736 watching tonight and I hope that they 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:28.760 see all counselors supporting our 00:53:29.359 --> 00:53:32.359 residents. Thank you very much. 00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:37.079 So, so with that, so with that I will 00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:41.079 call um for the vote. So please those 00:53:41.359 --> 00:53:43.896 voting sorry are there anybody wishing 00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:45.736 to vote against? 00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:48.295 So I'll call those out. So, councelor 00:53:48.319 --> 00:53:51.319 Crystalis, councelor Norris, councelor 00:53:51.359 --> 00:53:53.976 Boyd, councelor Kian, councelor 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.000 Tribe, the balance vote in favor. And so 00:53:58.319 --> 00:54:01.176 that will be councelor 00:54:01.200 --> 00:54:03.256 Clancy, Council Casmir, Councelor 00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:05.095 Wilkins, Councelor Proudfoot, Councelor 00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.016 Steele, Councelor Kemp, and Councelor 00:54:07.040 --> 00:54:10.040 White. I declare the motion carried. 00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:19.016 So we'll now move on to notice of motion 00:54:19.040 --> 00:54:21.016 enhancing environmental management of 00:54:21.040 --> 00:54:24.040 fisherman's paradise and lake conja 00:54:24.319 --> 00:54:26.776 councelor Steele and I'm happy to second 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:28.535 this. 00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.559 Thank you very much madame mayor. 00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:34.216 Okay 00:54:34.240 --> 00:54:35.896 so this motion is about addressing a 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.736 systemic failure in the way we manage 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:39.815 our waterways. 00:54:39.839 --> 00:54:41.736 a failure that is actively degrading 00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:43.896 public infrastructure and homes as well 00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:45.256 as endangering the health of our 00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:47.976 residents. For 14 years, this community 00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:51.000 has endured 15 distinct flood events. 00:54:51.040 --> 00:54:52.936 This frequency is a direct consequence 00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:54.535 of the transition away from the 00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:56.696 proactive channel maintenance model 00:54:56.720 --> 00:54:59.256 established by the 1999 Patterson 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:02.136 Brigton study. We abandoned a system 00:55:02.160 --> 00:55:04.055 that worked for over a decade in favor 00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:06.535 of a rigid modelbased environmental 00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:08.535 triggers that have left us powerless to 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:11.176 act in real time leading up to flood 00:55:11.200 --> 00:55:13.656 events. 00:55:13.680 --> 00:55:15.656 The physical evidence of this failure is 00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:17.335 clear. I've personally inspected the 00:55:17.359 --> 00:55:20.216 sites. The situation is critical. The 00:55:20.240 --> 00:55:22.696 ground homes and public spaces has lost 00:55:22.720 --> 00:55:24.295 its structural integrity. Soil 00:55:24.319 --> 00:55:26.055 liquefification starts happening at 00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:29.079 about 0.7 m AHD 00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:31.896 which is Australian height datim just 00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:34.920 for those not aware 00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:38.055 when this soil liqueification happens 00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:40.376 the the soil acts like a marsh and 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:42.216 compromises the structural integrity of 00:55:42.240 --> 00:55:43.815 our local infrastructure as well as the 00:55:43.839 --> 00:55:46.136 yards of our community and the homes 00:55:46.160 --> 00:55:48.456 built on those yards. Yet we are 00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:50.136 currently forced to sit back and wait 00:55:50.160 --> 00:55:53.160 until it rises a further 300 mm before 00:55:53.359 --> 00:55:55.896 we can actually act. As far as the 00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:57.976 infrastructure goes, the Annie Street 00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:00.216 boat ramp is completely underwater. The 00:56:00.240 --> 00:56:02.295 top of the ramp itself sitting about 300 00:56:02.319 --> 00:56:04.376 mm below the surface of the water and 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:06.376 the road leading into it looks more like 00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:09.016 a side channel to the lake. To use it, 00:56:09.040 --> 00:56:11.176 residents must currently drive their car 00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:13.095 through a foot of stagnant, questionable 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:16.055 water just to reach the launch point. 00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:17.815 Use of the fish cleaning table requires 00:56:17.839 --> 00:56:20.839 you to stand in need water. 00:56:21.040 --> 00:56:23.335 This brings us to the health concerns. 00:56:23.359 --> 00:56:25.416 We stopped surface water sampling at key 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:27.016 locations like the Fisherman's Paradise 00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:29.815 boat ramp as of June 2023. 00:56:29.839 --> 00:56:32.696 This is an abdication of our duty. 00:56:32.720 --> 00:56:34.696 We are flying blind. To understand the 00:56:34.720 --> 00:56:37.720 risk, look at the science. The NHMRC 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.216 guidelines for recreational water state 00:56:40.240 --> 00:56:43.240 that 40 CFU per 100 mill mills of 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:46.376 water is the threshold for safe 00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:49.256 swimming. When levels climb to 200 to 00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.280 500 CFU per 100 ms, we enter a zone of 00:56:52.319 --> 00:56:54.295 moderate risk that demands advisory 00:56:54.319 --> 00:56:55.976 warnings. 00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.535 But we have seen readings as high as 860 00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:01.559 CFU per 100 milliliters. 00:57:01.839 --> 00:57:04.839 When you exceed 500 CFU, the medical 00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:07.575 consensus is clear. You risk serious 00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:10.136 gastrointenal intestinal or respiratory 00:57:10.160 --> 00:57:11.976 infection with just 10 minutes of 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.736 immersion. 00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:15.575 By stopping testing, we have left our 00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:17.416 community to swim in potentially toxic 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:19.176 water without the basic right to know if 00:57:19.200 --> 00:57:21.656 it is safe for their families. 00:57:21.680 --> 00:57:23.736 As it is, just last week, water surface 00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.736 testing was done near any street boat 00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:28.760 ramp and the test came back at 350 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:31.976 CFU. 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:34.295 This is why we need the captain's call. 00:57:34.319 --> 00:57:35.976 This is not only property and health 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:37.656 that our residents on the lake need to 00:57:37.680 --> 00:57:40.136 worry about. With a history of flooding 00:57:40.160 --> 00:57:41.976 which will better man which with better 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:43.656 management may have been avoided at 00:57:43.680 --> 00:57:46.456 least to some degree. Our residents have 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:48.535 also had to endure financial 00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:50.696 consequences of increased maintenance 00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:52.936 and repairs as well as skyrocketing 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.016 insurance. That's if you can now get 00:57:55.040 --> 00:57:56.696 your property insured due to the risk of 00:57:56.720 --> 00:57:59.575 these flood events. 00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:01.575 Currently, our management is handcuffed 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:03.976 by bureaucracy and red tape. We are 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:05.815 trapped behind the entrance management 00:58:05.839 --> 00:58:08.696 plan 2025 that requires us to wait for 00:58:08.720 --> 00:58:11.575 slow theoretical models to align before 00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:13.815 we can act. We are witnessing the slow 00:58:13.839 --> 00:58:15.575 decay of our village. Yet our hands are 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:17.656 tied because we lack the discretionary 00:58:17.680 --> 00:58:20.680 power to intervene when the situation 00:58:20.799 --> 00:58:22.856 based on our own community's lived 00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:25.880 experience is clearly untenable. The 00:58:26.720 --> 00:58:28.136 captain's call is the mechanism that 00:58:28.160 --> 00:58:30.456 cuts through this. It is a proven tool 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:31.736 that allows the council to act 00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:33.256 immediately to open the entrance when 00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:35.416 conditions demand it rather than waiting 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:37.976 for the bureauc bureaucratic process to 00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:39.976 catch up to the reality of a flood or 00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:43.000 toxic stagnant event. 00:58:43.200 --> 00:58:44.616 I cannot understand why council 00:58:44.640 --> 00:58:46.696 relinquished this responsibility to the 00:58:46.720 --> 00:58:48.216 community and decided it was better 00:58:48.240 --> 00:58:50.856 handed handled from a distance. This has 00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:52.696 led to much confusion when action is 00:58:52.720 --> 00:58:55.256 needed and residents wondering who it is 00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:57.416 that is letting them down. By passing 00:58:57.440 --> 00:58:59.176 this motion tonight, we are choosing to 00:58:59.200 --> 00:59:01.575 restore accountability by immediately 00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:03.815 restarting water quality testing to 00:59:03.839 --> 00:59:06.216 protect public health. We are ensuring 00:59:06.240 --> 00:59:08.936 transparency by making the sewer scheme 00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:11.496 monitoring reports public. And we are 00:59:11.520 --> 00:59:13.976 reclaiming our authority by negotiating 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:15.815 the reinstatement of the captain's call 00:59:15.839 --> 00:59:18.839 at 0.7 m AHD threshold, allowing us to 00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:22.936 proactively mitigate flooding and 00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:25.575 erosion. We have a responsibility to our 00:59:25.599 --> 00:59:27.656 residents to prioritize the safety of 00:59:27.680 --> 00:59:29.575 their homes and their health over the 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.456 convenience of a rigid failing policy. I 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:34.136 ask for your support to restore our 00:59:34.160 --> 00:59:36.936 ability to act, to cut the red tape, and 00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:39.416 protect this community. Thank you. 00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:42.440 Thank you, Councelor Kian. 00:59:43.839 --> 00:59:45.815 Um I'm a resident of Fisherman's 00:59:45.839 --> 00:59:48.839 Paradise and I largely support this 00:59:49.040 --> 00:59:51.416 motion. Um I'm concerned about the 00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:54.055 captain's call. I think um water 00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:55.736 testing, water quality testing in 00:59:55.760 --> 00:59:57.335 Fisherman's Paradise is a reasonable 00:59:57.359 --> 01:00:00.359 thing to ask for. Would I like the staff 01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:03.400 to spend a lot of time and energy um 01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:06.055 investigating why the testing was 01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:07.815 ceased? I'm not really particularly 01:00:07.839 --> 01:00:09.176 interested in that. I'm particularly 01:00:09.200 --> 01:00:12.200 interested in that it should resume. Um, 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:16.216 I think though I want to congratulate 01:00:16.240 --> 01:00:19.095 the staff on the call that they have 01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:22.119 made in regard to the lake. 01:00:22.319 --> 01:00:24.295 Councelor Steele, thank you for going to 01:00:24.319 --> 01:00:25.896 Fisherman's Paradise. And thank you for 01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:27.976 having a look. And I don't know the lane 01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:29.176 that you were talking about. I'm 01:00:29.200 --> 01:00:31.016 assuming that's at Condola. It's not at 01:00:31.040 --> 01:00:32.616 Fisherman's Paradise. And Fisherman's 01:00:32.640 --> 01:00:35.640 Paradise is not melting into the water 01:00:36.240 --> 01:00:39.240 into the creek. It's fine. Um, there are 01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:41.095 concerns about the water quality and 01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:42.775 there have been some concerns about 01:00:42.799 --> 01:00:44.616 smells and things like that. So, the 01:00:44.640 --> 01:00:46.696 water testing is is important, but 01:00:46.720 --> 01:00:48.216 congratulations 01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:51.240 to the CEO and the staff for holding 01:00:52.240 --> 01:00:55.240 their nerve and waiting until the time 01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:58.295 was right to open the lake when there 01:00:58.319 --> 01:01:00.616 was a flow that was going to get it 01:01:00.640 --> 01:01:03.640 flowing and not a week or 10 days ago 01:01:03.680 --> 01:01:06.295 when it would have silted up again very 01:01:06.319 --> 01:01:08.616 quickly. I understand that the people of 01:01:08.640 --> 01:01:11.335 Canola are frightened and they're in a 01:01:11.359 --> 01:01:13.815 floodplone prone area and the people of 01:01:13.839 --> 01:01:16.216 Fisherman's Paradise don't like to see 01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:19.240 the creek not looking good. But 01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:23.000 the captain's call if it had been um 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:26.456 taken 10 days ago like people wanted to 01:01:26.480 --> 01:01:29.016 suggest, it would not have been a good 01:01:29.040 --> 01:01:30.936 outcome for anybody. We would have been 01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:32.616 opening the lake and we would not have 01:01:32.640 --> 01:01:35.640 got the outcome. Um so I would like to 01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:39.736 propose that um I am very much in 01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:41.575 supportive of this mo support of this 01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:44.599 motion but not of 6. So um I'm assuming 01:01:45.680 --> 01:01:47.896 that the the mover is not going to 01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:49.896 remove that. So I won't be able to vote 01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.616 against it. And I note that I say this 01:01:52.640 --> 01:01:55.095 as a resident of Fisherman's Paradise 01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:57.656 and in full recognition of the fear that 01:01:57.680 --> 01:02:00.680 people in Kola have about delays in 01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:02.936 opening the lake. 01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.575 Thank you. Any further speakers? 01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:07.815 Councelor Kemp. 01:02:07.839 --> 01:02:10.616 Thank you, Madame Mayor. Look, I've been 01:02:10.640 --> 01:02:13.640 up all night watching photos being 01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:17.240 uploaded and um concerned residents that 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:20.920 are just living on the edge of with you 01:02:21.839 --> 01:02:24.295 can see the distress and the anxiety 01:02:24.319 --> 01:02:26.936 caused to all of the residents having to 01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:29.960 live on the edge every night. And and 01:02:30.319 --> 01:02:32.376 this isn't the first time it's happened. 01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:35.016 It's happened before and it's sitting 01:02:35.040 --> 01:02:37.095 there and I'm not going to go into, you 01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:38.936 know, how it smells and everything. I'm 01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:41.335 concerned about the sewage and all of 01:02:41.359 --> 01:02:44.359 those things by the um water staying up 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:48.599 so high for so long. The killing of the 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:51.960 grass is evident and how it's coming up 01:02:52.799 --> 01:02:55.799 over the banks that it would normally be 01:02:56.240 --> 01:02:59.240 um is an environmental issue of its own. 01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:02.440 If it's does not get open fast, 01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:06.119 um it will keep causing future erosion. 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.416 If you do not have a captain's call so 01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:12.216 that we can open it as soon as the 01:03:12.240 --> 01:03:15.240 issues presented, open it and look at a 01:03:15.520 --> 01:03:17.095 future 01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:19.976 possibility of doing something um so 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:23.000 that it's not happening all the time. Um 01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:25.896 I know that when they dredged it last 01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.376 time many years ago, they dumped the 01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:31.400 sand there. whether that's causing 01:03:32.640 --> 01:03:35.640 issues. I Shoalhaven't seen the reports, but 01:03:35.680 --> 01:03:37.896 if that's not helping, let's look at a 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:39.575 longertermed 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:42.599 sustainable way of opening. And I 01:03:43.359 --> 01:03:46.359 dislike that word, but um a way to open 01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:49.416 it so we don't have to keep spending 01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:52.295 money to open it, open it, open it, open 01:03:52.319 --> 01:03:54.535 it because this is causing major 01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:57.176 distress and anxiety to the residents 01:03:57.200 --> 01:04:00.055 that live there and having to live on 01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:02.856 edge all the time. Um I fully support 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:05.880 this notice a motion and a quicker way 01:04:06.240 --> 01:04:08.936 of opening this lake and looking towards 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:11.960 a more permanent way dredging. I 01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:15.256 don't know. Let's look at a permanent 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:18.136 way to stop this distress that the 01:04:18.160 --> 01:04:21.160 controller residents are going through. 01:04:21.680 --> 01:04:24.376 Thank you. Any further speakers? 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:26.055 If there's no further speakers, do you 01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:29.079 want write a reply? Councelor Steele. 01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:30.616 I think we'll just roll with the vote. 01:04:30.640 --> 01:04:32.055 Madame Mayor, I'm pretty sure we got 01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:33.095 everything across. 01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:36.119 So, those wishing to vote against, 01:04:36.640 --> 01:04:39.335 Councelor Killian votes against the 01:04:39.359 --> 01:04:42.136 balance vote in favor. Um, so I 01:04:42.160 --> 01:04:43.976 therefore declare which will I'll read 01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:46.055 it out for the community. Councelor 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.136 Crystal, councelor Norris, Councelor 01:04:48.160 --> 01:04:50.295 Clancy, Councelor Boyd, Councelor 01:04:50.319 --> 01:04:52.295 Casmir, Councelor Wilkins, Councelor 01:04:52.319 --> 01:04:54.696 Proudfoot, Councelor Tribe, Councelor 01:04:54.720 --> 01:04:57.720 Steele, Councelor Kemp, Councelor White, 01:04:58.160 --> 01:05:01.160 and Councelor Dunn. Um, I declare that 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:05.960 carried. Thank you. We'll go then to CL 01:05:07.599 --> 01:05:10.599 2695, notice of motion, legal and 01:05:11.359 --> 01:05:13.976 consultancy costs determined, refused 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:15.496 development applications. Councelor 01:05:15.520 --> 01:05:17.575 Casmir, 01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:20.456 thank you. Thank you, Madame May. And 01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:23.335 thank you, CEO, for providing the 01:05:23.359 --> 01:05:26.359 Do I have a second? Councelor Steele. 01:05:26.799 --> 01:05:29.015 Thank you. 01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:31.815 And thank you Se for providing the the 01:05:31.839 --> 01:05:34.839 amounts of recovery or losses 01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:36.136 whichever way you're going to look at 01:05:36.160 --> 01:05:39.160 it. the and obviously 01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:42.856 what I also would like to know as per 01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:45.880 the motion is that what other 01:05:46.640 --> 01:05:48.775 consultants we have employed as well as 01:05:48.799 --> 01:05:51.799 the legal people that took us to court 01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:55.559 to reach to those decisions 01:05:55.680 --> 01:05:58.680 because what motivated me to write this 01:05:59.520 --> 01:06:02.295 motion is because I understand 01:06:02.319 --> 01:06:04.456 that there are councils 01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:06.535 that have been 01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:09.559 taken to court the legal advisers about 01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:12.696 providing legal advice which was 01:06:12.720 --> 01:06:14.216 incorrect. 01:06:14.240 --> 01:06:16.295 That is what motivated me to put this 01:06:16.319 --> 01:06:18.775 together and that is why I've asked if 01:06:18.799 --> 01:06:21.335 was possible to have the name. Obviously 01:06:21.359 --> 01:06:23.496 not possible. not understand that but 01:06:23.520 --> 01:06:26.216 maybe maybe under confidential if that's 01:06:26.240 --> 01:06:29.240 okay we could um have a session for us 01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:32.055 to better understand who are these 01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:34.696 people they advising us and we finish up 01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:37.720 in court when it is my understanding 01:06:38.160 --> 01:06:41.160 then in most cases when it goes to court 01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:45.656 the developer the builder does whatever 01:06:45.680 --> 01:06:47.575 amendments to the DA they will suit the 01:06:47.599 --> 01:06:50.599 court and it gets approved so I must be 01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:53.416 missing something there as to why don't 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:55.976 we do that before we go to court or is 01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:58.376 it because we are getting wrong legal 01:06:58.400 --> 01:06:59.736 advice 01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:02.760 I'm repeating myself other councils have 01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:05.880 taken the legal firms to court climbing 01:07:06.319 --> 01:07:09.319 for compensation for the losses for 01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:12.599 given wrong or incorrect or detrimental 01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:17.160 legal advice that is my point madame 01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:19.176 mayor thank you 01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:22.200 Mlattis 01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:25.736 Oh, you're right. 01:07:25.760 --> 01:07:28.696 So, is there any further speakers? 01:07:28.720 --> 01:07:30.456 If not, I'll put the record write a 01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:32.295 reply. So, we don't need write a reply. 01:07:32.319 --> 01:07:35.319 Um, anybody wishing to vote against 01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.095 council tribe votes against balance vote 01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:40.936 in favor. So, Council Crystal Lightis, 01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:43.015 Councelor Norris, Council Clancy, 01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:45.095 Councelor Boyd, Councelor Killian, 01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:47.176 Councelor Casmir, Councelor Wilkins, 01:07:47.200 --> 01:07:49.496 Councelor Proudfoot, Councelor Steele, 01:07:49.520 --> 01:07:51.176 Councelor Kemp, and Councelor White. I 01:07:51.200 --> 01:07:54.200 declare that carried. We'll now move on 01:07:54.319 --> 01:07:56.376 to 01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.936 Cal 26.96, 01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:01.736 which is notice of motion Bay Sports and 01:08:01.760 --> 01:08:04.376 Community Hub. Councelor Proudfoot. It's 01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:06.856 been seconded by Councelor Casmir and 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:09.880 Councelor Clancy. Councelor Proudoot. 01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:13.015 thanks Madam Chair. 01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:16.039 I move the recommendation 01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:19.319 written on the business paper and I 01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:20.936 know we have discussed this quite 01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:23.960 recently and I know that 01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:27.480 governance has indicated to myself that 01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:30.600 it's a completely legal motion and 01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:34.056 they have no problem with it. In 01:08:34.080 --> 01:08:36.215 addition to the information contained 01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:39.096 within the business paper, there's a an 01:08:39.120 --> 01:08:41.335 additional letter here from Bendigo Bank 01:08:41.359 --> 01:08:44.359 from Keith Robinson, the chairman, 01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:47.416 saying that he formally confirms a 01:08:47.440 --> 01:08:49.496 commitment of the co-unding in the 01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:51.655 amount of $8,000 to support the proposed 01:08:51.679 --> 01:08:53.416 initiative currently under council's 01:08:53.440 --> 01:08:54.936 consideration. 01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:56.056 We are pleased to support the 01:08:56.080 --> 01:08:57.496 initiatives that contribute positively 01:08:57.520 --> 01:08:59.175 to the bay and basin community and look 01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:01.335 forward to the opportunity to 01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:03.815 collaborate on this pro and this 01:09:03.839 --> 01:09:06.536 project. young Oliver Griffith came 01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:09.560 in and and made a very good 01:09:10.799 --> 01:09:13.799 deputation at the last meeting. he 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.880 was advocating very strongly to have 01:09:18.400 --> 01:09:20.215 the $8,000 01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:22.936 paid as a donation to the project. It's 01:09:22.960 --> 01:09:25.496 seed funding of to combine with another 01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:28.520 $8,000 so that the $16,000 01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.255 with a the community group that's been 01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:33.976 formed. I think there's madam chair 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:35.815 there's 15 different community 01:09:35.839 --> 01:09:38.775 organizations within the Sanctuary 01:09:38.799 --> 01:09:41.496 Point area that have indicated their 01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:44.135 support for this project. 01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:47.159 Now the the Benigo Bank people 01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:50.616 have also indicated that they're 01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:52.456 proud to support the project. We 01:09:52.480 --> 01:09:54.456 recognize the significant positive 01:09:54.480 --> 01:09:56.456 impact the proposed redevelopment of the 01:09:56.480 --> 01:09:58.936 Francis Ryan Reserve will have on youth 01:09:58.960 --> 01:10:01.736 engagement, community participation 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:04.456 and local employment opportunities. Now 01:10:04.480 --> 01:10:06.856 the BCR communities 01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:09.880 15 local community organizations have 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.175 come together and on behalf of the Bay 01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:15.496 and Sporting Community Hub Committee 01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:18.520 they say that the BCR communities and we 01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:21.416 invite Shalapen City Council to partner 01:10:21.440 --> 01:10:24.376 with Beno Bank in supporting the next 01:10:24.400 --> 01:10:27.016 critical stage of the Bay Sporting and 01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:29.896 Community Hub project. So this is a 01:10:29.920 --> 01:10:32.856 vital project that it's been 01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:34.776 identified in the community 01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:37.800 infrastructure strategic plan. the 01:10:38.320 --> 01:10:40.376 dressing sheds there where no doubt 01:10:40.400 --> 01:10:42.616 they'd be leveled and the the 01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:45.016 community hub would be installed there 01:10:45.040 --> 01:10:47.736 came to end of life some time ago. 01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:50.215 They were virtually condemned. some 01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:52.056 local villains 01:10:52.080 --> 01:10:54.056 somehow finished they got a mattress 01:10:54.080 --> 01:10:55.336 from somewhere and pushed it up against 01:10:55.360 --> 01:10:56.936 the dressing sheds and set fire to it 01:10:56.960 --> 01:10:59.256 and that that went through the the 01:10:59.280 --> 01:11:00.616 front of the building and into some of 01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:02.936 the electrical work. So council and the 01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:05.960 community got together eventually to 01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:09.576 repair that. Council staff were at one 01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:12.296 stage thinking about not allowing this 01:11:12.320 --> 01:11:15.320 that particular complex to reopen, but 01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:18.856 nevertheless it did. And just recently, 01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:20.616 , council working with the community 01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.776 there has, , painted the facility 01:11:22.800 --> 01:11:25.496 inside and out and done some other work 01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:28.520 in there regarding toilets and, , and 01:11:29.040 --> 01:11:30.856 pulling out some of the seating area and 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:32.376 cupboards and so forth. And they're 01:11:32.400 --> 01:11:35.336 they're now housed in some of the the 01:11:35.360 --> 01:11:37.576 containers adjacent to that facility. 01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:39.736 And there's still some time to go, I 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:42.536 believe, before the that gets put back 01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:44.776 in the dressing sheds, but it's only a 01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:47.096 stop gap measure. that the community 01:11:47.120 --> 01:11:48.936 wants to come together with a with a 01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:51.960 really top-notched community hub that 01:11:52.159 --> 01:11:55.016 will engage the entire youth of our 01:11:55.040 --> 01:11:57.576 area, engage the entire youth, but 01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:00.376 especially now the the women and girls 01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:03.400 in our area that are starting to in 01:12:04.239 --> 01:12:07.239 numbers challenge the the boys in the 01:12:07.280 --> 01:12:08.776 area, the men in the area. And that's a 01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:10.536 that's a fantastic thing. So in the end 01:12:10.560 --> 01:12:12.215 you finish up with double the the amount 01:12:12.239 --> 01:12:14.135 of participants. 01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:16.536 Keen sporting people. I know the boxing 01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:18.135 fraternity want to put a facility in 01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:20.776 there. I know the youth people 01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:23.016 there would like to negotiate over there 01:12:23.040 --> 01:12:24.536 and get a space in that particular 01:12:24.560 --> 01:12:26.536 building. I know that people want to go 01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:29.560 there and and and work out and and 01:12:29.679 --> 01:12:31.256 start to use some of the weights that'll 01:12:31.280 --> 01:12:33.096 be purchased and and look after their 01:12:33.120 --> 01:12:35.736 own bodies and and it's so good for 01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:37.336 their mental health. It's so good for 01:12:37.360 --> 01:12:39.576 their physical health. and we we just 01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:42.600 approved one down at Ulladulla and and 01:12:43.520 --> 01:12:46.056 which I was very very much in favor of 01:12:46.080 --> 01:12:47.336 even though we're taking over 01:12:47.360 --> 01:12:49.416 responsibility in some respects from the 01:12:49.440 --> 01:12:52.215 state government. We thought that if we 01:12:52.239 --> 01:12:53.736 gave the lighthouse area down at 01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:56.760 DUlladulla there a bit of a makeover 01:12:57.199 --> 01:12:59.496 that that would make it a much better 01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:01.175 place, a much more attractive place and 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:03.336 we and we would hope that would then 01:13:03.360 --> 01:13:06.296 help in some small way discourage people 01:13:06.320 --> 01:13:08.536 from taking their own lives. And so this 01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:11.560 is a basically a life prevention a 01:13:12.159 --> 01:13:15.159 lifet project. It's supporting young 01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:17.976 people and and especially in an area 01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:19.496 like Sanctuary Point where I live and I 01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:21.336 choose to live there because I love the 01:13:21.360 --> 01:13:24.215 place. It's a disadvantaged area. It's a 01:13:24.239 --> 01:13:25.816 very much disadvantaged area. It's a low 01:13:25.840 --> 01:13:27.976 income area and a lot of the youth there 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:29.096 struggle. A lot of families at the 01:13:29.120 --> 01:13:30.376 moment especially with cost of living 01:13:30.400 --> 01:13:32.376 pressures are struggling to even put 01:13:32.400 --> 01:13:35.256 food on the table. And so we support 01:13:35.280 --> 01:13:37.336 that community and I I want people here 01:13:37.360 --> 01:13:39.816 tonight just for $8,000 to go put your 01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:41.816 hand up and say we do support the 01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:44.135 sanctuary point youth. Thank you madam 01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:44.456 chair. 01:13:44.480 --> 01:13:47.480 Thank you sir councelor crystalitis. 01:13:49.440 --> 01:13:51.496 Thank you very much. This is a a 01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:52.936 question through you madam mayor if I 01:13:52.960 --> 01:13:54.856 may through to through to whichever 01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:57.736 staff member wishes to is able to 01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:00.695 answer the councelor proudford did just 01:14:00.719 --> 01:14:02.776 did bring up the legalities of this 01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:05.175 and and outside the normal process for 01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:07.016 receiving grants. Is there a legal 01:14:07.040 --> 01:14:08.296 problem under the local government act 01:14:08.320 --> 01:14:10.376 on this? 01:14:10.400 --> 01:14:13.400 through through um madame mayor 01:14:15.280 --> 01:14:18.215 section 356 of the local government act 01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:21.239 section subsection one provides 01:14:21.679 --> 01:14:24.679 the power to the council by resolution 01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:27.736 to provide funding and I would note 01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:29.016 particularly with this project that 01:14:29.040 --> 01:14:32.040 ultimately it will become a communityled 01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:35.239 project but ultimately will be a 01:14:35.360 --> 01:14:38.360 council building in terms of its 01:14:38.480 --> 01:14:41.480 ownership. so to that end it is 01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:44.215 perfectly legal under the local 01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:45.976 government act. I have seen some 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:49.000 commentary but again I would point to 01:14:50.400 --> 01:14:53.400 the entirety of subsection or the 01:14:53.440 --> 01:14:56.215 entirety of section 356 under the act 01:14:56.239 --> 01:14:58.856 and not just part of it. 01:14:58.880 --> 01:15:00.616 wonderful. Thank you very much for 01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:03.496 that. I'd like to just say if I may um 01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:05.576 if I may speak um I don't think 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:06.776 anything's changed since the last time 01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:08.936 we saw this the everything brought up 01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:11.816 last time about we you have 01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:13.655 organizations out there screaming for 01:15:13.679 --> 01:15:15.416 funds to repair simple things like 01:15:15.440 --> 01:15:18.440 awnings and and other community 01:15:19.120 --> 01:15:22.120 amenities to ad hawk this to um to a 01:15:23.360 --> 01:15:26.360 bank is I think a bit on the nose 01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:28.456 as far as the community goes and that's 01:15:28.480 --> 01:15:30.936 why I'll repeat my vote from the last 01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:32.296 meeting. Thank you. 01:15:32.320 --> 01:15:35.320 Thank you, Councelor Tribe. 01:15:37.280 --> 01:15:39.655 Thank you, Madame Mayor. , well, I I 01:15:39.679 --> 01:15:42.679 think we would all love to be able to 01:15:43.199 --> 01:15:46.199 splash the cash around. , but we have 01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:49.800 to be fair and it has to be fruitful. 01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:51.816 Um, we know this group would like to get 01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:54.840 an architect to design the hub. , 01:15:56.560 --> 01:15:57.976 although in speaking to them, they 01:15:58.000 --> 01:15:59.496 weren't sure whether it's one or two 01:15:59.520 --> 01:16:00.936 buildings yet. and that they are 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:02.936 thinking about doing some more surveys 01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:05.960 and and things as well. Um, but we also 01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:07.816 know from councelor Boyd's question that 01:16:07.840 --> 01:16:10.296 she posed to staff that should this 01:16:10.320 --> 01:16:12.296 become a community-led project then the 01:16:12.320 --> 01:16:14.695 designs can be done by our expert staff 01:16:14.719 --> 01:16:16.936 in house. So that would follow best 01:16:16.960 --> 01:16:19.016 practice principles and be in line with 01:16:19.040 --> 01:16:20.536 the evidence-based data that we've 01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:23.256 collected from the CISP and that's the 01:16:23.280 --> 01:16:25.256 most appropriate and cost-effective way 01:16:25.280 --> 01:16:28.280 to proceed. 01:16:29.679 --> 01:16:31.736 I support upgraded sporting facilities 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:33.896 at Francis Ryan Reserve. My youngest did 01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:35.736 league tag there. I'm well aware of how 01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:37.576 popular it is and it is a plan that's in 01:16:37.600 --> 01:16:39.576 the CISP 01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:42.456 as is the library separate to this 01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:44.776 and I fully support both of those 01:16:44.800 --> 01:16:46.695 projects and I think in order to bring 01:16:46.719 --> 01:16:48.776 them to life we need to work in 01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:50.695 conjunction with staff and not run a 01:16:50.719 --> 01:16:53.336 separate parallel process. we need to 01:16:53.360 --> 01:16:55.576 all be singing from the same song sheet 01:16:55.600 --> 01:16:58.536 and I fully 100% support this as a 01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:01.175 community-led project. Um Ulladulla was 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:03.976 raised and and there was a bit of 01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:05.496 commentary around that and particularly 01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:07.096 the homework in the background was that 01:17:07.120 --> 01:17:08.695 crown lands do have funding for 01:17:08.719 --> 01:17:10.536 maintenance. So in supporting that I 01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:12.695 never had any intention for council to 01:17:12.719 --> 01:17:15.655 be paying for that work. Um, so I do 01:17:15.679 --> 01:17:17.496 feel that this is a separate kettle of 01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:19.976 fish, but again 100% support this as a 01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:22.056 community-led project and I really hope 01:17:22.080 --> 01:17:24.135 that that group can come together and 01:17:24.159 --> 01:17:26.296 recognize the work that council has done 01:17:26.320 --> 01:17:28.856 in these areas again so that we can all 01:17:28.880 --> 01:17:31.576 work together and not run separate 01:17:31.600 --> 01:17:34.600 surveys and separate processes and 01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:37.096 raise community expectations that may 01:17:37.120 --> 01:17:39.016 not be in line with what best practice 01:17:39.040 --> 01:17:41.336 and evidence-based data is. 01:17:41.360 --> 01:17:44.360 Thank you, Councelor Norris. 01:17:45.120 --> 01:17:48.056 May let me first start by saying that I 01:17:48.080 --> 01:17:49.816 really do think this is a great idea and 01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:51.256 I think supporting the community of 01:17:51.280 --> 01:17:53.175 Sanctuary Point is what we should be 01:17:53.199 --> 01:17:54.536 doing. We absolutely should be doing it 01:17:54.560 --> 01:17:56.536 across our city and it's one of the key 01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:58.456 communities in our city that is the 01:17:58.480 --> 01:18:01.480 heart of Shoalhaven I would say. Um but 01:18:02.480 --> 01:18:05.480 in the way I propose to vote tonight I 01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:07.736 will be seen as being voting against 01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:09.976 this and that will be against the 01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.695 community. Um, now we had a deputation 01:18:12.719 --> 01:18:15.719 the other week in which $8,000 was a 01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:18.056 drop in the pond. 01:18:18.080 --> 01:18:19.736 Those words were on the tape. Check the 01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:22.760 tape. Um, $8,000. Now, the other meeting 01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:26.056 council boy and I clawed $2,000 back 01:18:26.080 --> 01:18:28.456 from a grand variation we didn't agree 01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:31.336 with. Had we not have done this and this 01:18:31.360 --> 01:18:34.360 $8,000 goes out tonight, that's $10,000. 01:18:34.480 --> 01:18:36.456 You know, I I appreciate it comes from a 01:18:36.480 --> 01:18:38.616 different um bundle of money, but that's 01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:41.016 still $10,000 going out of Shoalhaven 01:18:41.040 --> 01:18:43.175 City Council when I thought the 01:18:43.199 --> 01:18:45.256 community wanted their roads fixed. I 01:18:45.280 --> 01:18:46.376 thought the community wanted their 01:18:46.400 --> 01:18:48.296 gardens mowed. I thought the community 01:18:48.320 --> 01:18:50.456 wanted things done that were about 01:18:50.480 --> 01:18:52.215 making sure that their everyday life 01:18:52.239 --> 01:18:54.695 works. Now, I appreciate this. This 01:18:54.719 --> 01:18:56.536 needs to happen. Of course, it does. 01:18:56.560 --> 01:18:58.776 Francis Ryan Reserve needs the upgrade, 01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:01.800 but we we cannot be funding $8,000 here 01:19:02.239 --> 01:19:04.296 for architectural drawings which are 01:19:04.320 --> 01:19:06.296 going to come back to us for a further 01:19:06.320 --> 01:19:09.320 asking of more money later on. That's 01:19:09.440 --> 01:19:11.976 what's going to happen. So, I appreciate 01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:13.976 that this is not what you want to hear 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:17.000 from me. 01:19:18.640 --> 01:19:20.215 Councelor Proudoot, can you keep your 01:19:20.239 --> 01:19:23.239 comments, please? C. So, yep. Continue. 01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:26.296 Councelor Norris, but we need to be much 01:19:26.320 --> 01:19:28.376 more frugal in this place if we're to 01:19:28.400 --> 01:19:30.215 ever get this budget back on track so 01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:32.376 that we can start diving out this money 01:19:32.400 --> 01:19:34.536 for projects that are so important to 01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:36.695 our community and that our communities 01:19:36.719 --> 01:19:38.616 absolutely do deserve because our 01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:39.896 communities have done it tough for a 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:41.896 long time, but I'm asking for just a 01:19:41.920 --> 01:19:43.096 little bit more time while we get the 01:19:43.120 --> 01:19:45.096 budget right so we can actually start 01:19:45.120 --> 01:19:46.616 making some funding so that the 01:19:46.640 --> 01:19:49.496 community can have a benefit later on. 01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:52.520 Thank you, Councelor Boyd. 01:19:53.520 --> 01:19:55.576 Um firstly I think this is a very 01:19:55.600 --> 01:19:57.496 worthwhile project for Sanctuary Point 01:19:57.520 --> 01:19:59.576 and I support it totally. I think it's 01:19:59.600 --> 01:20:00.616 great that all the community 01:20:00.640 --> 01:20:02.695 organizations are working together to 01:20:02.719 --> 01:20:05.256 support the project and and an outcome 01:20:05.280 --> 01:20:07.976 that benefits the whole community. Um 01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:09.816 however, it's my understanding that if 01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:12.840 this group applied by the portal after 01:20:13.120 --> 01:20:16.056 the 1st of July when when um 01:20:16.080 --> 01:20:18.776 applications for community-led projects 01:20:18.800 --> 01:20:21.800 reopen, um council staff would work with 01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:25.175 the group to plan the project possibly 01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:28.199 with the existing master plan for Stan 01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:31.175 Sanctuary Point as a starting point and 01:20:31.199 --> 01:20:34.199 actually work with council to to get the 01:20:34.719 --> 01:20:37.416 project underway. And this wouldn't cost 01:20:37.440 --> 01:20:39.576 any well, it would cost something, but 01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:42.376 it wouldn't require the $8,000 from 01:20:42.400 --> 01:20:44.695 council 01:20:44.719 --> 01:20:46.536 and it would mean that council does not 01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:49.175 have to scrge around for that $8,000 01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:52.199 that is unbudgeted for. Um, Bendigo Bank 01:20:53.040 --> 01:20:55.736 won't need to supply the $8,000, but 01:20:55.760 --> 01:20:57.496 they can come good with that later when 01:20:57.520 --> 01:20:59.175 the money is really needed because this 01:20:59.199 --> 01:21:01.016 is going to be an extremely expensive 01:21:01.040 --> 01:21:02.536 project. 01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:04.215 Um, and this will mean that the 01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:06.376 community group, the the group out at 01:21:06.400 --> 01:21:08.616 Sanctuary Point will be treated the same 01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:11.016 as every other community group planning 01:21:11.040 --> 01:21:13.416 to deliver community-led projects on 01:21:13.440 --> 01:21:16.376 council land in their own communities. 01:21:16.400 --> 01:21:19.016 Council does it will work with this 01:21:19.040 --> 01:21:21.655 group to develop the plan they want and 01:21:21.679 --> 01:21:24.536 I think that's where we should go. So it 01:21:24.560 --> 01:21:27.560 is an equitable process and not 01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:29.896 supporting one particular group in a 01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:31.976 special way. 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:32.536 Thank you. 01:21:32.560 --> 01:21:35.560 Thank you, Councelor Wilkins. 01:21:37.440 --> 01:21:40.056 Thanks, Madam Mayor. , yes, I support 01:21:40.080 --> 01:21:41.976 this. I think it's entirely what we're 01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:45.000 here for as a council to support 01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:48.776 these sorts of community projects. 01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:51.800 Um, you can only treat each case on its 01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:54.215 merits. Yes, there are parameters, but 01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:57.239 we have the discretion as a council 01:21:57.360 --> 01:22:00.360 to to divert some funds should we 01:22:02.320 --> 01:22:05.320 feel that a particular application 01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:08.936 deserves it. And they've made a great 01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:11.096 case. The speaker was fantastic the 01:22:11.120 --> 01:22:12.936 other day. Councelor Proudoot has put 01:22:12.960 --> 01:22:15.256 the case. We're futurep proofing the 01:22:15.280 --> 01:22:18.056 young. We're improving a facility. we 01:22:18.080 --> 01:22:21.080 will have ownership of that facility. 01:22:21.199 --> 01:22:22.776 It's like the pools. It's like the 01:22:22.800 --> 01:22:24.856 lighthouse. If you come with a great 01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:27.576 case and it's presented for us, then we 01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:30.600 can act on that case. And that's what 01:22:30.639 --> 01:22:32.856 we're doing here. It's a half billion 01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:34.536 dollar business. We're talking about 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:36.296 $8,000. 01:22:36.320 --> 01:22:39.320 Um I'm sure we can find those funds for 01:22:39.520 --> 01:22:41.896 something as worthy of this. the 01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:44.920 Francis Ryan Reserve the future of 01:22:45.280 --> 01:22:48.280 the young and the tentacles have been 01:22:48.320 --> 01:22:50.215 brought together already and tentacles 01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:53.239 will be continuing to bring this 01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:55.496 project to fruition and then when it's 01:22:55.520 --> 01:22:58.135 completed the council can have a look 01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.536 at it and say yes we've contributed to 01:23:00.560 --> 01:23:03.496 that a small amount 01:23:03.520 --> 01:23:05.816 and yet here it is before us. So I'll 01:23:05.840 --> 01:23:08.695 be supporting this it's a good solid 01:23:08.719 --> 01:23:10.936 project as a council. It's what we're 01:23:10.960 --> 01:23:12.695 here for to make these sorts of 01:23:12.719 --> 01:23:14.456 decisions. 01:23:14.480 --> 01:23:17.480 Councelor Casmary, 01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:22.600 , Councelor Kemp, 01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:25.816 the laptops and phones are going flat 01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:27.736 out down there. I refer to the 01:23:27.760 --> 01:23:30.296 technology code meeting practice and I'd 01:23:30.320 --> 01:23:33.320 like to you to enforce those, please. 01:23:33.440 --> 01:23:35.416 So, I'll give councilors a second 01:23:35.440 --> 01:23:38.215 warning that you should not be um 01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:41.016 sending out anything on 01:23:41.040 --> 01:23:43.336 Excuse me, councelor Kellian, I am 01:23:43.360 --> 01:23:44.856 speaking. 01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:47.880 I will speak to you after I am speaking. 01:23:48.880 --> 01:23:51.880 I am warning counselors that if there is 01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:53.896 any evidence that people are 01:23:53.920 --> 01:23:56.376 transmitting outside of this meeting to 01:23:56.400 --> 01:23:59.175 inappropriate sources, I will be issuing 01:23:59.199 --> 01:24:02.135 codes of conduct. Councelor Killian. 01:24:02.159 --> 01:24:05.159 Madame Mayor, I am using my laptop to 01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:08.456 conduct my entire business in this 01:24:08.480 --> 01:24:11.016 meeting and I have my phone sitting 01:24:11.040 --> 01:24:14.040 here. Councelor Kemp is sitting many 01:24:14.080 --> 01:24:16.536 meters away from me and she has no idea 01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:18.936 whether I am transmitting anything 01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:21.960 outside. So I'm not sing aware of 01:24:22.239 --> 01:24:25.239 because Excuse me. I am not singling out 01:24:25.440 --> 01:24:28.440 any one counselor. I'm addressing it to 01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.960 all councils. all counselors. All right. 01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:34.936 I was not singling you out and neither 01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:37.336 did counselor Kemp single out any 01:24:37.360 --> 01:24:40.360 counselor. All she was saying is she's 01:24:40.719 --> 01:24:42.536 concerned that if it's being transmitted 01:24:42.560 --> 01:24:45.096 outside if it is being transmitted 01:24:45.120 --> 01:24:48.056 outside to inappropriate sources and 01:24:48.080 --> 01:24:50.376 I can detect that that has happened then 01:24:50.400 --> 01:24:52.376 I will be issuing codes of conduct. 01:24:52.400 --> 01:24:54.456 Councelor Kemp, I've dealt with the 01:24:54.480 --> 01:24:57.480 procedural order. So I'm up to councelor 01:24:57.520 --> 01:24:59.976 Casmir. 01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:02.056 Thank you. Thank you, Madame May. 01:25:02.080 --> 01:25:04.776 Obviously, I support the motion. but 01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:07.576 I I just I want to make a very brief 01:25:07.600 --> 01:25:10.056 comment. We have an amazing media 01:25:10.080 --> 01:25:12.776 department conducting 01:25:12.800 --> 01:25:14.695 what I call for better words 01:25:14.719 --> 01:25:16.776 communicating with the community and 01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:19.800 having presentations and all that 01:25:20.400 --> 01:25:23.400 about engaging our communities. And here 01:25:23.520 --> 01:25:25.496 we have a case where the community is 01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:27.496 coming to us. 01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:29.336 Coming to us to say we want to do 01:25:29.360 --> 01:25:32.360 something, you know, help us out. That's 01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:35.560 all it is. And by the way, I don't want 01:25:35.679 --> 01:25:37.416 to trivialize the matter. We're talking 01:25:37.440 --> 01:25:39.655 about $8,000. 01:25:39.679 --> 01:25:40.695 Thank you, ma'am. 01:25:40.719 --> 01:25:42.936 Thank you, Councelor Kemp, did you wish 01:25:42.960 --> 01:25:43.496 to speak? 01:25:43.520 --> 01:25:45.896 Yes, please, Madame May. Um, look, I 01:25:45.920 --> 01:25:48.695 fully support this notice a motion. Um, 01:25:48.719 --> 01:25:51.416 we're here to do for the community. 01:25:51.440 --> 01:25:53.816 that's exactly what we're here for. 01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:56.376 Yes, it is a little bit of a a concern 01:25:56.400 --> 01:25:58.376 how we how we get around this. I 01:25:58.400 --> 01:26:00.936 understand that they they may have 01:26:00.960 --> 01:26:03.576 issues with dates and things that they 01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:06.600 need to promise on their end which may 01:26:06.639 --> 01:26:09.639 be 01:26:10.080 --> 01:26:13.080 excuse me who's speaking. 01:26:14.239 --> 01:26:17.175 Well, I'll warn you, councelor Boyd, you 01:26:17.199 --> 01:26:19.016 do not speak when another counselor is 01:26:19.040 --> 01:26:21.496 speaking. Thank you, Councelor Kimp. 01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:24.456 Thank you, Madame May. Um I I do realize 01:26:24.480 --> 01:26:26.215 that this has come through for whatever 01:26:26.239 --> 01:26:29.239 reason. Um after hearing the deputy um 01:26:30.639 --> 01:26:33.336 speak on this, at the end of the day, 01:26:33.360 --> 01:26:36.360 it's $8,000 and I don't see 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:41.960 in effect, yes, the roads need doing 01:26:42.320 --> 01:26:43.736 and and that's what we're looking at 01:26:43.760 --> 01:26:46.760 first and foremost. It's $8,000. 01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:49.800 Um it's $8,000. It's a small amount of 01:26:52.159 --> 01:26:55.159 money compared to 01:26:55.440 --> 01:26:57.896 when um councelor Boyd threw in a 01:26:57.920 --> 01:27:00.920 $60,000 traffic and feasibility study 01:27:01.360 --> 01:27:04.360 that went nowhere. That's 60,000. I I I 01:27:04.719 --> 01:27:07.719 struggled to say that the $8,000 is just 01:27:08.239 --> 01:27:11.239 a a small amount of money and um I'm 01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:14.135 willing to support it. Thank you. 01:27:14.159 --> 01:27:16.296 Thank you. Any further speakers? 01:27:16.320 --> 01:27:18.376 Councelor Steele. 01:27:18.400 --> 01:27:21.400 Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um, yeah, I I'm 01:27:23.040 --> 01:27:25.016 sort of stuck on a bit of a bit of a 01:27:25.040 --> 01:27:27.896 comparison here. Um, couple months ago, 01:27:27.920 --> 01:27:30.920 we voted and it was with heartfelt 01:27:32.800 --> 01:27:35.256 voting that we decided to take the 01:27:35.280 --> 01:27:37.016 responsibility of the financial 01:27:37.040 --> 01:27:40.040 situation of the lighthouse and Ulladulla 01:27:40.320 --> 01:27:43.256 on board. Our hearts go out to the 01:27:43.280 --> 01:27:45.816 people who have that association with 01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:48.776 the reputation of that place. But at the 01:27:48.800 --> 01:27:50.615 same time, 01:27:50.639 --> 01:27:52.615 whether we took on the financial 01:27:52.639 --> 01:27:54.695 responsibility or not, we know that the 01:27:54.719 --> 01:27:56.135 state government would have made sure 01:27:56.159 --> 01:27:57.655 that things there would have been taken 01:27:57.679 --> 01:28:00.536 care of regardless of our intervention. 01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:03.560 So, I can't see how anyone can justify 01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:05.896 giving the state government a thousands 01:28:05.920 --> 01:28:08.920 and thousands of dollars free gift when 01:28:09.199 --> 01:28:11.336 we can't even give $8,000 to our own 01:28:11.360 --> 01:28:14.360 kids. 01:28:15.040 --> 01:28:17.816 This is to help prevent mental health 01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:20.456 issues for our kids, to help prevent 01:28:20.480 --> 01:28:22.056 more people taking that horrible, 01:28:22.080 --> 01:28:24.456 horrible step 01:28:24.480 --> 01:28:26.135 that pulled us all in to feel that we 01:28:26.159 --> 01:28:28.296 needed to support that last that that 01:28:28.320 --> 01:28:31.320 motion. I think that this very much 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:33.416 falls in the same lines of it's a it's a 01:28:33.440 --> 01:28:34.936 responsibility to the community that we 01:28:34.960 --> 01:28:36.776 owe more than we owe any responsibility 01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:38.296 to the state when it comes to financial 01:28:38.320 --> 01:28:39.976 matters. 01:28:40.000 --> 01:28:40.695 Thank you. 01:28:40.719 --> 01:28:43.719 Councelor Kelly, you wish to speak? 01:28:45.360 --> 01:28:48.360 Um, look, I 01:28:48.400 --> 01:28:50.135 very much support this project. It's a 01:28:50.159 --> 01:28:51.976 very good project. There are many many 01:28:52.000 --> 01:28:55.000 very good projects across this city from 01:28:55.440 --> 01:28:58.215 people who care about what is happening 01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:00.776 in their community doing things that 01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:02.936 will help build the resilience of our 01:29:02.960 --> 01:29:05.416 young people. And they are not coming to 01:29:05.440 --> 01:29:08.440 us repeatedly asking us to provide funds 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:12.600 that we don't have for things that are 01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:16.376 good things. They're yes, we support 01:29:16.400 --> 01:29:18.215 them. Yes, we support them to get some 01:29:18.239 --> 01:29:20.135 money from somewhere. But this is not 01:29:20.159 --> 01:29:23.159 within our reasonable budget. We are 01:29:24.719 --> 01:29:26.536 tightening our belts to get to the point 01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:28.936 where we can do these things as 01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:31.960 councelor Norris I think it was said. So 01:29:32.320 --> 01:29:35.320 and I it fa I failed to understand the 01:29:35.760 --> 01:29:37.336 comparison 01:29:37.360 --> 01:29:40.360 between the the change in the in the 01:29:40.719 --> 01:29:43.719 support on a piece of crown land and a 01:29:44.400 --> 01:29:46.856 small investment in that. There is no 01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:49.736 clear line between this and that. So I 01:29:49.760 --> 01:29:51.976 would seek for people to look at this 01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:54.456 project on its merits. Its merits are 01:29:54.480 --> 01:29:57.175 fine but we don't have these funds. 01:29:57.199 --> 01:29:59.416 Thank you. 01:29:59.440 --> 01:30:01.576 So I'll just weigh into the debate. Um 01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:03.175 and then I'll go to write a reply to 01:30:03.199 --> 01:30:05.736 councelor Bradford. This matter's been 01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:08.760 on the books for now over to this is the 01:30:10.159 --> 01:30:12.056 third term of council that this has come 01:30:12.080 --> 01:30:14.615 up to council. There's been lots of 01:30:14.639 --> 01:30:16.856 proposals put along the way. I already 01:30:16.880 --> 01:30:18.776 know council spent an absolute fortune 01:30:18.800 --> 01:30:21.416 trying to get design plans done etc. 01:30:21.440 --> 01:30:23.336 Right, but they were all turned away. 01:30:23.360 --> 01:30:26.360 This is an opportunity for us to fund a 01:30:27.440 --> 01:30:29.896 community group who want to put the time 01:30:29.920 --> 01:30:32.920 and effort into actually getting the 01:30:34.159 --> 01:30:37.016 designs done. So we will have a shovel 01:30:37.040 --> 01:30:39.816 ready project and we all know that if 01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:41.496 you don't have a shovel ready project 01:30:41.520 --> 01:30:44.520 you cannot get grant funding. So this is 01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:47.880 a small cost to council to be able to 01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:51.000 get a magnificent 01:30:51.280 --> 01:30:54.280 place out in sanctuary point for the 01:30:54.880 --> 01:30:57.416 community and for the community to 01:30:57.440 --> 01:31:00.440 benefit in relation to requests etc. I 01:31:00.719 --> 01:31:03.336 get them every day asking to fund this, 01:31:03.360 --> 01:31:05.976 asking to fund that. And I think that we 01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:08.215 have a responsibility to the residents 01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:10.056 that if something comes up and it's a 01:31:10.080 --> 01:31:11.655 good project, it is going to save 01:31:11.679 --> 01:31:14.215 council money over the long term. 01:31:14.239 --> 01:31:16.296 All right. And it is going to progress a 01:31:16.320 --> 01:31:18.536 project quicker than what council will 01:31:18.560 --> 01:31:21.560 pro um progress the project. Then I 01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:23.256 think we have to look at every single 01:31:23.280 --> 01:31:25.816 one. And I know you said that you know 01:31:25.840 --> 01:31:27.256 it's going to sanctuary point. There are 01:31:27.280 --> 01:31:29.416 other needs. Well, other needs that have 01:31:29.440 --> 01:31:31.496 come in. If you think it's a great need 01:31:31.520 --> 01:31:33.655 for the city, well then put it up as a 01:31:33.679 --> 01:31:35.416 recommend as a notice of motion to the 01:31:35.440 --> 01:31:37.736 council. All right? And then make the 01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:40.760 decision. Don't hide behind decisions 01:31:40.800 --> 01:31:42.936 that council make. 01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:44.856 All right. Put them up to council if you 01:31:44.880 --> 01:31:46.936 think it is appropriate to come up to 01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:49.960 council. Yes, we do have a financial um 01:31:50.880 --> 01:31:52.936 we did have financial problems with the 01:31:52.960 --> 01:31:55.960 council and let me tell you the blowout 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:59.000 on Bungaree Park that went from a $4 01:32:00.080 --> 01:32:02.376 million project funded by the state 01:32:02.400 --> 01:32:04.615 government to $21 million project that 01:32:04.639 --> 01:32:07.175 hasn't been completed. The blowout that 01:32:07.199 --> 01:32:09.496 we have on the mirth, they are all 01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:12.520 blowouts of projects. And why should the 01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:15.560 residents of the Shawha suffer from not 01:32:16.800 --> 01:32:19.655 being able to put their projects forward 01:32:19.679 --> 01:32:21.576 because this council blew out other 01:32:21.600 --> 01:32:24.376 projects. So councelor Proudford, I 01:32:24.400 --> 01:32:26.215 fully support your recommendation. Write 01:32:26.239 --> 01:32:29.239 a reply. 01:32:29.360 --> 01:32:31.256 thank you madame chair for your 01:32:31.280 --> 01:32:34.280 support and I do thank all councilors 01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:38.520 for their constructive 01:32:38.560 --> 01:32:41.175 suggestions and criticism and and 01:32:41.199 --> 01:32:43.496 enthusiastic support depending upon 01:32:43.520 --> 01:32:46.456 where you're coming from. as the 01:32:46.480 --> 01:32:48.615 mayor said people come to council all 01:32:48.639 --> 01:32:50.695 the time. We deal with this sort of 01:32:50.719 --> 01:32:53.016 thing all the time. I mean it it's it's 01:32:53.040 --> 01:32:56.040 not fair to say, "Oh, but but if we if 01:32:57.120 --> 01:32:59.256 we give it to the Sanctuary Point 01:32:59.280 --> 01:33:00.456 people, even though they're deserving, 01:33:00.480 --> 01:33:01.976 it's a great project and all the rest of 01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:04.376 it, what about others?" Well, you treat 01:33:04.400 --> 01:33:06.615 each case on its merit. You treat each 01:33:06.639 --> 01:33:08.776 case on its merit. And and I know it's 01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:10.376 only a very small amount of money. I 01:33:10.400 --> 01:33:12.856 know that. And and we spend a lot of 01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:15.880 time of it in this place debating $8,000 01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:18.456 amounts for 30 minutes or so. and then 01:33:18.480 --> 01:33:20.215 we come to a budget. We put about 15 01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:22.135 minutes into it and it's only 500 01:33:22.159 --> 01:33:25.159 million. So that that always puzzles me. 01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:27.736 What what I'd say that the people that 01:33:27.760 --> 01:33:30.456 speak against this and you're entitled 01:33:30.480 --> 01:33:32.215 to that and I I don't name people 01:33:32.239 --> 01:33:34.215 because I I really couldn't be bothered. 01:33:34.239 --> 01:33:37.175 But this is an enthusiasm killer. 01:33:37.199 --> 01:33:39.336 You've got a you got a local community 01:33:39.360 --> 01:33:41.976 there. There's 15 different community 01:33:42.000 --> 01:33:44.856 groups are really enthusiastic 01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:46.296 and they're hellbent on making a 01:33:46.320 --> 01:33:47.896 difference. 01:33:47.920 --> 01:33:50.536 We represent them. We represent those 01:33:50.560 --> 01:33:52.856 people and they're asking us, look, can 01:33:52.880 --> 01:33:55.016 you throw in a bit of seed funding and 01:33:55.040 --> 01:33:56.376 we'll make it work. This is a 01:33:56.400 --> 01:33:58.936 community-led project. We'll make it 01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:00.536 work. The Bendigo Bank's got a track 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:02.615 record of making projects work. The 01:34:02.639 --> 01:34:05.096 Bendigo Bank are pretty good at lobbying 01:34:05.120 --> 01:34:07.016 and we'll need to lobby state and 01:34:07.040 --> 01:34:08.376 federal government to get the money in 01:34:08.400 --> 01:34:10.456 any case or whatever the the cost comes 01:34:10.480 --> 01:34:13.336 to we wouldn't know at this stage. But 01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:15.016 you want the people like the Bendigo 01:34:15.040 --> 01:34:17.175 Bank, you want those 15 community groups 01:34:17.199 --> 01:34:20.199 to galvanize together to make things 01:34:20.320 --> 01:34:21.976 work just like we did with the Jervis 01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:25.000 Bay interchange that that got moved 01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:27.816 three councils ago. I happen to be the 01:34:27.840 --> 01:34:29.976 one that moved it and we wrote to the 01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:31.736 prime minister, the premier, we wrote to 01:34:31.760 --> 01:34:33.336 the ministers, we got Shelley Hancock 01:34:33.360 --> 01:34:35.336 inside and we started working on that 01:34:35.360 --> 01:34:38.135 project. That's how we did it. Other 01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:39.816 community groups, Vincentia Matters came 01:34:39.840 --> 01:34:41.496 on board. So did Vincentia residents and 01:34:41.520 --> 01:34:43.016 rate payers. Other community groups came 01:34:43.040 --> 01:34:45.576 on board and it was a fantastic effort 01:34:45.600 --> 01:34:47.496 to go and lobby and achieve that 01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:49.576 project. This is the genesis, this one 01:34:49.600 --> 01:34:51.896 here. This is the genesis of a fantastic 01:34:51.920 --> 01:34:54.920 project for Sanctuary Point. And to to 01:34:55.040 --> 01:34:58.040 flippantly call it on the nose or a 01:34:58.400 --> 01:35:00.856 splash for cash, irrespective of who you 01:35:00.880 --> 01:35:03.880 are, I won't name you. It's pathetic. 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:05.976 It's quite pathetic to do that to 01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:08.135 people. I'd like you to go and look them 01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:11.096 in the eyes and say, "We don't care. We 01:35:11.120 --> 01:35:12.695 don't care about your project. We don't 01:35:12.719 --> 01:35:14.456 care that you're sincere. You're 01:35:14.480 --> 01:35:16.215 hardworking. You're fair income. You 01:35:16.239 --> 01:35:17.496 want to roll your sleeves up. You want 01:35:17.520 --> 01:35:19.496 to put a lot of work into it. We don't 01:35:19.520 --> 01:35:21.816 care about that. Well and good. Go and 01:35:21.840 --> 01:35:24.840 do it. Go and do it to them. These 01:35:25.040 --> 01:35:26.456 people are worthwhile people. They're 01:35:26.480 --> 01:35:28.456 battlers. And I'm telling you, they come 01:35:28.480 --> 01:35:31.016 from a depressed area. Even though it's 01:35:31.040 --> 01:35:32.536 starting to change, becoming more middle 01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:34.376 class, there's still a lot of people in 01:35:34.400 --> 01:35:35.576 there that really battle and really 01:35:35.600 --> 01:35:37.096 struggle. And they they battle to put 01:35:37.120 --> 01:35:39.175 food on the table. They battle battle to 01:35:39.199 --> 01:35:40.615 support their own kids. They battle to 01:35:40.639 --> 01:35:42.215 put a football jumper on their back. 01:35:42.239 --> 01:35:43.816 They battle to put a tracksuit on their 01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:46.296 back. They battle to get them to games. 01:35:46.320 --> 01:35:47.655 But they still get there and do it 01:35:47.679 --> 01:35:49.016 because they're decent people and all 01:35:49.040 --> 01:35:50.776 they want is a a leg up. They want a 01:35:50.800 --> 01:35:53.576 hand hand up. That's what they want. A 01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:56.376 help out and to turn their back on them. 01:35:56.400 --> 01:35:58.135 I'll say it again. It's pathetic. Thanks 01:35:58.159 --> 01:35:59.096 madam chair. 01:35:59.120 --> 01:36:01.175 Thank you. So those wishing to vote 01:36:01.199 --> 01:36:02.936 against 01:36:02.960 --> 01:36:05.256 councelor Crystalis, councelor Norris, 01:36:05.280 --> 01:36:07.175 councelor Boyd, council Killian, 01:36:07.199 --> 01:36:10.199 councelor Tribe the balance voting. Oh, 01:36:10.639 --> 01:36:13.639 sorry. Carly, voting for against 01:36:15.440 --> 01:36:18.440 against. Um, those voting in favor are 01:36:18.639 --> 01:36:21.639 councelor Clancy, Councelor Casmir, 01:36:22.080 --> 01:36:23.816 Councelor Wilkins, councelor Proudoot, 01:36:23.840 --> 01:36:26.056 Councelor Steele, Councelor Kemp, 01:36:26.080 --> 01:36:28.536 Councelor White, 01:36:28.560 --> 01:36:31.560 and that is 01:36:32.560 --> 01:36:35.560 that is carried. 01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:42.199 So, I have to fix that. Yep. So, that's 01:36:43.600 --> 01:36:45.655 been carried. So, we'll now move on to 01:36:45.679 --> 01:36:48.679 CL 2697, questions on notice, financial 01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:51.896 assistance grants. , we don't talk 01:36:51.920 --> 01:36:53.416 about the questions on notice, but I 01:36:53.440 --> 01:36:56.440 will note that the CFO this afternoon 01:36:56.719 --> 01:36:58.856 provided councilors with the advice from 01:36:58.880 --> 01:37:01.175 the office of local government. , 01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:04.199 we'll then do CL 2698, 01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:07.560 questions on notice, closure of Banksia 01:37:07.920 --> 01:37:09.655 Street. That's question on notice that 01:37:09.679 --> 01:37:12.296 will come back to council. Oh, it's been 01:37:12.320 --> 01:37:14.536 replied to. So, it's in the paperwork. 01:37:14.560 --> 01:37:16.376 So, we'll now go to the call over of the 01:37:16.400 --> 01:37:19.336 business paper. And sorry, councelor 01:37:19.360 --> 01:37:20.615 Crystal. 01:37:20.639 --> 01:37:22.536 Um, 01:37:22.560 --> 01:37:25.175 question number 01:37:25.199 --> 01:37:27.976 26.99 01:37:28.000 --> 01:37:29.416 99 01:37:29.440 --> 01:37:30.215 99. 01:37:30.239 --> 01:37:31.736 Yeah. Well, I'm just getting to the call 01:37:31.760 --> 01:37:34.215 over of the paper first. 01:37:34.239 --> 01:37:37.095 Yep. So, um I'll do the call over of the 01:37:37.119 --> 01:37:40.119 paper. So, I have had some counselors um 01:37:40.800 --> 01:37:42.856 um come to me with what they have called 01:37:42.880 --> 01:37:45.496 out. Um if you didn't send me an email, 01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:48.456 I'll send an email into council. Um I 01:37:48.480 --> 01:37:50.456 will call out which ones have been 01:37:50.480 --> 01:37:52.536 called out already and if there's any 01:37:52.560 --> 01:37:54.376 further to add to the list, please let 01:37:54.400 --> 01:37:57.400 me know. So, CL 2699 has been called out 01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:01.736 by councelor Proudfoot. 01:38:01.760 --> 01:38:04.760 CL 26 100 has been called out by 01:38:05.600 --> 01:38:08.600 councelor Tribe. CL 26102 has been 01:38:11.360 --> 01:38:14.360 count called out by councelor 01:38:15.119 --> 01:38:18.119 councelor proudoot. CL 26103 has been 01:38:19.679 --> 01:38:22.296 called out by councelor Wilkins. I just 01:38:22.320 --> 01:38:24.695 want to clarify that's only the white 01:38:24.719 --> 01:38:27.016 paper that is also in confidential. So 01:38:27.040 --> 01:38:28.536 you can't talk about the confidential 01:38:28.560 --> 01:38:31.256 section till we move into confidential. 01:38:31.280 --> 01:38:34.280 then I have got CL 26107 01:38:34.800 --> 01:38:37.336 which has been called out by councelor 01:38:37.360 --> 01:38:40.360 Wilkins. Again I'll come back to you. 01:38:41.199 --> 01:38:43.976 I'll do the call out. Um that has been 01:38:44.000 --> 01:38:46.056 called out by councelor Wilkins. Again 01:38:46.080 --> 01:38:48.296 that is part of a confidential report. 01:38:48.320 --> 01:38:51.320 I've got CL 2611 01:38:51.360 --> 01:38:54.360 sorry 111 by councelor Casmir. I've 01:38:55.360 --> 01:38:58.360 got 26 112 by councelor Casmiri. I 01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:03.880 have got 2615 01:39:05.119 --> 01:39:08.119 by councelor Crowdfoot. I've got CL 01:39:08.960 --> 01:39:11.175 26116 01:39:11.199 --> 01:39:14.135 by councelor Proudfoot and I have CL 01:39:14.159 --> 01:39:17.159 26118 01:39:17.440 --> 01:39:20.440 by myself. Councelor White did which 01:39:20.480 --> 01:39:23.480 ones have I left out? 01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:28.199 106. 01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:31.496 So CL 106, 01:39:31.520 --> 01:39:34.135 I'll add that to it. So the balance um 01:39:34.159 --> 01:39:35.816 which I'll read out and then we'll vote 01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:38.135 in um I'll get a mover and second for 01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:39.736 them. 01:39:39.760 --> 01:39:42.760 Yes, 01:39:44.800 --> 01:39:46.296 sorry. 01:39:46.320 --> 01:39:49.320 101 the quarterly report. Um you want to 01:39:49.600 --> 01:39:52.600 pull that out? Yep. 01:39:53.920 --> 01:39:56.920 Um, as we move further into this, the 01:39:57.199 --> 01:39:59.016 staff are providing me with the list of 01:39:59.040 --> 01:40:01.655 who's called out which ones. Um, and I 01:40:01.679 --> 01:40:03.896 will be moving tonight and the and in 01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:06.856 future the rest of them on Globo. Um, so 01:40:06.880 --> 01:40:08.856 if it's not called out, it'll be in the 01:40:08.880 --> 01:40:10.536 report at the front that it hasn't been 01:40:10.560 --> 01:40:13.175 called out. So please, if councilors can 01:40:13.199 --> 01:40:15.336 make sure that they let myself know or 01:40:15.360 --> 01:40:17.655 the CEO know as soon as possible what 01:40:17.679 --> 01:40:20.679 they want called out. So that means we 01:40:20.960 --> 01:40:23.336 are left with 01:40:23.360 --> 01:40:24.936 I've just pulled that. So we're left 01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:27.960 with CL 26104 proposed road closure and 01:40:29.040 --> 01:40:31.816 dedication of land as a public road in 01:40:31.840 --> 01:40:34.695 um Cumberland Avenue South narrow. We're 01:40:34.719 --> 01:40:37.719 left with CL 26105 01:40:37.840 --> 01:40:40.840 acquisition at Aanathi's Creek drain lot 01:40:41.679 --> 01:40:44.679 11 section 1 DP 3 385 01:40:48.159 --> 01:40:50.615 B Bomaderry 01:40:50.639 --> 01:40:53.639 we are then left with CL 26108 01:40:53.679 --> 01:40:56.215 tenders for the linen hire supply and 01:40:56.239 --> 01:40:59.239 laundering we are left with CL 26100 01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:01.736 affordable housing strategy 01:41:01.760 --> 01:41:03.256 implementation 01:41:03.280 --> 01:41:06.280 then we have 2610 01:41:06.639 --> 01:41:09.639 sorry 110 finalization of the Shoalhaven 01:41:10.239 --> 01:41:12.776 development contributions plans. We 01:41:12.800 --> 01:41:15.416 then have 26 01:41:15.440 --> 01:41:18.440 113 new land use planning scheme the 01:41:20.800 --> 01:41:23.800 first planning proposal housekeeping. 01:41:24.159 --> 01:41:27.159 Then we have CL 26114 01:41:27.360 --> 01:41:30.056 policy review of rate small lot 01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:33.080 residential sub rural subdivisions. 01:41:33.520 --> 01:41:36.520 then we have CL 281 sorry CL 26117 01:41:38.639 --> 01:41:41.336 grant of easements for padmounted 01:41:41.360 --> 01:41:44.360 substation underground cables and 01:41:44.560 --> 01:41:47.256 creation of a restriction of use of the 01:41:47.280 --> 01:41:50.280 land part plot 1 DP 10638393. 01:41:56.239 --> 01:41:58.135 So do I have a mover of all of those 01:41:58.159 --> 01:42:00.456 reports? Councelor Norris the seconder. 01:42:00.480 --> 01:42:02.615 Councelor Boyd. Is anybody wishing to 01:42:02.639 --> 01:42:04.536 vote against any of those? I declare 01:42:04.560 --> 01:42:07.095 them carried unanimously. So, we'll go 01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:10.119 back to um the report of the in 01:42:11.360 --> 01:42:13.496 finance and infrastructure 01:42:13.520 --> 01:42:16.520 review panel. Councelor Proudfoot, 01:42:17.360 --> 01:42:20.360 I move a procedural motion first. 01:42:21.040 --> 01:42:22.695 Could I move a procedural motion that 01:42:22.719 --> 01:42:24.936 these three recommendations be 01:42:24.960 --> 01:42:27.095 considered separately? 01:42:27.119 --> 01:42:30.119 Um considering the recommendations I'm 01:42:30.560 --> 01:42:33.560 happy to accept that so councelor 01:42:34.080 --> 01:42:36.856 Proudfoot do you wish to speak on the 01:42:36.880 --> 01:42:39.416 whole three recommendations or any 01:42:39.440 --> 01:42:40.135 one particular one? 01:42:40.159 --> 01:42:43.159 No matter I I wanted to comment on the 01:42:44.159 --> 01:42:47.159 advice from Mr. Dunn about the DPOP 01:42:47.679 --> 01:42:50.679 but I wanted to talk on paid parking. 01:42:53.040 --> 01:42:55.016 So you don't wish to speak on the debt 01:42:55.040 --> 01:42:57.095 grants and cash modeling? 01:42:57.119 --> 01:42:57.976 No. 01:42:58.000 --> 01:43:00.215 Right. So does any councelor wish to 01:43:00.239 --> 01:43:03.239 speak on the um on so that's FR26.4.8. 01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:10.856 Does anybody wish to speak on that? 01:43:10.880 --> 01:43:13.095 So it's been moved by councelor tribe 01:43:13.119 --> 01:43:14.856 seconded by councelor Kian. Anybody 01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:17.175 wishing to vote against? So councelor 01:43:17.199 --> 01:43:19.576 Norris is voting against. We'll then 01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:22.600 move down then to h sorry I need to step 01:43:22.639 --> 01:43:24.695 back a minute. So we had a procedural 01:43:24.719 --> 01:43:27.095 motion which I accepted. Can I just 01:43:27.119 --> 01:43:28.536 check with governance? Do I need a 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:31.175 second a mover and a seconder for that? 01:43:31.199 --> 01:43:31.976 Procedural motion. 01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:34.135 For the procedural motion. 01:43:34.159 --> 01:43:34.615 No. 01:43:34.639 --> 01:43:36.056 Thank you madam mayor. The procedural 01:43:36.080 --> 01:43:37.496 motion the the individual 01:43:37.520 --> 01:43:40.135 recommendations on the on the agenda of 01:43:40.159 --> 01:43:41.896 the council. We don't really need a 01:43:41.920 --> 01:43:43.576 procedural motion for that effect. 01:43:43.600 --> 01:43:45.496 All right. Thank you. 01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:48.520 So we'll then go to FR26.9 01:43:50.560 --> 01:43:53.560 additional item paid parking. 01:43:55.600 --> 01:43:58.376 I've got to go back to that one. 01:43:58.400 --> 01:44:01.400 I move the item as 01:44:02.239 --> 01:44:05.239 moved by the committee. Yeah. 01:44:05.440 --> 01:44:08.056 that the finance and infrastructure 01:44:08.080 --> 01:44:10.135 review panel recommend council request 01:44:10.159 --> 01:44:12.296 the CA to immediately update the 24th of 01:44:12.320 --> 01:44:15.320 March 2020 report which recommended paid 01:44:15.360 --> 01:44:16.856 park into the then strategy ethics 01:44:16.880 --> 01:44:19.095 committee include Molingwood Beach car 01:44:19.119 --> 01:44:22.119 park, Huskinson car park, Hines Beach on 01:44:22.320 --> 01:44:25.095 street parking and Bungary Park car park 01:44:25.119 --> 01:44:27.175 bur in the report 01:44:27.199 --> 01:44:29.016 simply in the report submit the revised 01:44:29.040 --> 01:44:31.175 report to council 01:44:31.199 --> 01:44:33.976 for in July and benchmark the report 01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:35.976 against the blue Blue Mountains 01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:38.296 Council. Madam Chair, I think that's 01:44:38.320 --> 01:44:41.320 a and speaking to it that is a a step in 01:44:42.159 --> 01:44:44.376 the right direction that that doesn't 01:44:44.400 --> 01:44:47.400 mean we're going we're going to all 01:44:47.600 --> 01:44:50.056 of those areas or or one of them or two 01:44:50.080 --> 01:44:52.135 of them or three of them. We're simply 01:44:52.159 --> 01:44:54.536 having a red hot look at it and 01:44:54.560 --> 01:44:57.560 investigating the best use of 01:44:57.600 --> 01:45:00.600 technology in these in inverted 01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:04.920 commas parking meters. getting our 01:45:05.199 --> 01:45:07.095 staff to certainly cast a critical eye 01:45:07.119 --> 01:45:10.119 over it to 01:45:12.880 --> 01:45:15.880 and to make to make sure we we can 01:45:17.360 --> 01:45:19.416 go out to our residents with this and 01:45:19.440 --> 01:45:22.376 we'll no doubt go out to consultation 01:45:22.400 --> 01:45:25.095 and and speak with our residents as to 01:45:25.119 --> 01:45:28.119 how they feel about it. What is 01:45:28.239 --> 01:45:29.655 what's the impact their perceived 01:45:29.679 --> 01:45:32.679 impact? that's often perception is is 01:45:32.719 --> 01:45:35.719 the scariest thing for them and to 01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:38.536 perhaps even engage with our tourist 01:45:38.560 --> 01:45:41.256 people as to what what their thoughts 01:45:41.280 --> 01:45:43.736 are on the issue. there's no doubt 01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:45.336 about tourism New South Wales would have 01:45:45.360 --> 01:45:48.360 some interest in their in the the 01:45:49.679 --> 01:45:52.679 logic of the plan or the future plan and 01:45:52.800 --> 01:45:55.256 that we can come up with the best model 01:45:55.280 --> 01:45:57.816 to talk to our people with. So that 01:45:57.840 --> 01:45:59.336 that's the basics for us. I think it's 01:45:59.360 --> 01:46:01.655 an exciting time. We we need to really 01:46:01.679 --> 01:46:04.536 pursue every revenue opportunity we can 01:46:04.560 --> 01:46:07.336 get and and try and get a positive 01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:09.496 benefit the local residents that that's 01:46:09.520 --> 01:46:11.816 the as the speaker and the the 01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:14.840 deputation mentioned he said some of the 01:46:15.119 --> 01:46:16.536 residents at home beach won't like it 01:46:16.560 --> 01:46:18.376 and some will like it and and it's all 01:46:18.400 --> 01:46:20.456 based on perception once once people are 01:46:20.480 --> 01:46:22.376 better educated as to what's going on 01:46:22.400 --> 01:46:24.615 and they they directly understand the 01:46:24.639 --> 01:46:27.175 impact on on their the amenity of 01:46:27.199 --> 01:46:29.416 their living they they get get a better 01:46:29.440 --> 01:46:31.336 handle on it and perhaps they'll 01:46:31.360 --> 01:46:33.336 they'll come on board with it and in in 01:46:33.360 --> 01:46:35.816 so doing we we make it a better area, 01:46:35.840 --> 01:46:38.056 more attractive area and we come up with 01:46:38.080 --> 01:46:40.615 valuable funds for council. I know some 01:46:40.639 --> 01:46:42.456 of the councils around the place they do 01:46:42.480 --> 01:46:45.480 they do gain a lot of um money out of 01:46:45.760 --> 01:46:48.760 those parking type meters. So that's 01:46:48.880 --> 01:46:50.776 that's what I want to say on that one. 01:46:50.800 --> 01:46:52.456 And 01:46:52.480 --> 01:46:54.296 I did want to comment while I'm on my 01:46:54.320 --> 01:46:56.615 feet 01:46:56.639 --> 01:46:59.639 under general business where Mr. done 01:46:59.840 --> 01:47:01.416 had concerns that the proposed land 01:47:01.440 --> 01:47:03.016 sales target is over. 01:47:03.040 --> 01:47:04.456 I'll come to that after we deal with 01:47:04.480 --> 01:47:06.135 paid parking. I'll come back to you on 01:47:06.159 --> 01:47:08.695 that. Um can I just 01:47:08.719 --> 01:47:11.016 Yeah. Can I just clarify a point to you? 01:47:11.040 --> 01:47:13.896 Um and I'll seek advice from the CEO on 01:47:13.920 --> 01:47:14.776 it. 01:47:14.800 --> 01:47:16.536 Um they've asked for a report to come 01:47:16.560 --> 01:47:19.016 back to council in July. So we're at the 01:47:19.040 --> 01:47:22.040 end of May now. Um, is there enough time 01:47:22.080 --> 01:47:25.080 for staff to do the investigation or the 01:47:25.600 --> 01:47:28.600 staff to do an investigation and report 01:47:28.960 --> 01:47:31.336 back to council? Um, and whether we 01:47:31.360 --> 01:47:33.016 should change that that we have a 01:47:33.040 --> 01:47:35.416 preliminary report back to council in 01:47:35.440 --> 01:47:37.175 July. So, we're still getting a report 01:47:37.199 --> 01:47:39.016 back. It may be finished, but it may not 01:47:39.040 --> 01:47:40.936 be finished. Are you happy with that, 01:47:40.960 --> 01:47:42.376 Council Proudfoot? 01:47:42.400 --> 01:47:43.336 Definitely. 01:47:43.360 --> 01:47:45.336 Yep. So, did you want to make a comment? 01:47:45.360 --> 01:47:47.416 If I may, it it would be useful if we 01:47:47.440 --> 01:47:49.175 could get an extra month to put together 01:47:49.199 --> 01:47:51.095 a preliminary report because I want it 01:47:51.119 --> 01:47:53.496 to be comprehensive for a decision 01:47:53.520 --> 01:47:56.376 making point for you. The observation I 01:47:56.400 --> 01:47:58.215 would also make is there is no way I 01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:00.456 think we'd be able to deliver the scheme 01:48:00.480 --> 01:48:03.480 by December 2026. So I I would like to 01:48:04.400 --> 01:48:07.400 inform the implementation period off the 01:48:07.600 --> 01:48:09.175 back of the report that we do provide 01:48:09.199 --> 01:48:12.135 back to you. So if we could get till the 01:48:12.159 --> 01:48:13.896 end of August that would give us I think 01:48:13.920 --> 01:48:16.215 amble time to be able to come come 01:48:16.239 --> 01:48:17.576 forward unless 01:48:17.600 --> 01:48:19.095 director Buckman has a different point 01:48:19.119 --> 01:48:20.615 of view. 01:48:20.639 --> 01:48:21.175 No. 01:48:21.199 --> 01:48:23.175 So are you happy with councelor 01:48:23.199 --> 01:48:25.256 Proudfoot and councelor Wilkins? 01:48:25.280 --> 01:48:26.135 Yeah. 01:48:26.159 --> 01:48:27.816 So we'll just make that amendment. 01:48:27.840 --> 01:48:28.296 Thanks 01:48:28.320 --> 01:48:30.695 in there that 01:48:30.719 --> 01:48:33.256 question. 01:48:33.280 --> 01:48:36.280 Are are we allowed to um amend a 01:48:37.440 --> 01:48:40.440 recommendation from a council committee? 01:48:41.440 --> 01:48:42.856 Sarah, would you like to answer that? 01:48:42.880 --> 01:48:44.456 Oh, sorry, Miss McMahon, would you like 01:48:44.480 --> 01:48:45.576 to answer that, please? 01:48:45.600 --> 01:48:47.736 M through you, madam mayor. The 01:48:47.760 --> 01:48:49.416 committee recommendation is on the paper 01:48:49.440 --> 01:48:52.135 for the council to consider and to adopt 01:48:52.159 --> 01:48:55.159 or amend as it sees fit. Um, it is a 01:48:56.639 --> 01:48:58.456 recommendation like any other in that 01:48:58.480 --> 01:49:00.456 regard. 01:49:00.480 --> 01:49:03.175 Thank you. All right. So I'll go to 01:49:03.199 --> 01:49:03.576 councelor 01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:06.600 Wilkins 01:49:08.400 --> 01:49:10.936 extra time perhaps even more for this 01:49:10.960 --> 01:49:13.175 because I think it does need more 01:49:13.199 --> 01:49:16.199 research. I mean the community at least 01:49:16.560 --> 01:49:18.615 one part of it is panicking already 01:49:18.639 --> 01:49:21.576 based on the word going out that oh paid 01:49:21.600 --> 01:49:23.095 parking's coming in and all they're 01:49:23.119 --> 01:49:25.976 picturing 400 meters in the streets of 01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:28.776 Berry and Huskers or wherever. This is 01:49:28.800 --> 01:49:31.800 only a report or a suggestion or a 01:49:32.960 --> 01:49:34.856 motion put by a member of the finance 01:49:34.880 --> 01:49:37.880 panel based on um research six years ago 01:49:38.639 --> 01:49:41.576 or seven years ago and we need to do 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:43.416 some research there because at the 01:49:43.440 --> 01:49:46.440 moment it's very emotive and you need to 01:49:46.880 --> 01:49:48.936 collect a lot more information. Um 01:49:48.960 --> 01:49:51.175 during the course of this week I did 01:49:51.199 --> 01:49:53.816 speak to several people at Brunswick 01:49:53.840 --> 01:49:56.840 Heads um who have had paid parking 01:49:57.520 --> 01:49:59.576 only for a couple of years now and there 01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:02.600 was a hu and cry there and I did call 01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:05.095 Brunswick Heads from personal 01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:06.776 experience because I did drive in there 01:50:06.800 --> 01:50:09.175 a few months ago and I was stunned at 01:50:09.199 --> 01:50:11.896 the meters and I thought they were a 01:50:11.920 --> 01:50:14.695 major eyes saw and part of this proposal 01:50:14.719 --> 01:50:16.856 is to consider a scheme that doesn't 01:50:16.880 --> 01:50:18.936 involve meters which that I think we 01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:21.576 would fully endorse down the track. But 01:50:21.600 --> 01:50:24.215 in talking to the Chamber of Commerce in 01:50:24.239 --> 01:50:27.239 Brunswick Heads, I note that we are 01:50:27.280 --> 01:50:30.056 using one model here and that is um the 01:50:30.080 --> 01:50:32.056 Blue Mountains Council. There are other 01:50:32.080 --> 01:50:34.456 models, other councils who have already 01:50:34.480 --> 01:50:36.776 done their research. They've put in 01:50:36.800 --> 01:50:39.576 paid parking and I think they need to be 01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:41.816 contacted as well. Now the business 01:50:41.840 --> 01:50:44.840 chamber of Brunswick Heads um they were 01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:47.976 adamant that 01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:50.856 it was sending people elsewhere to 01:50:50.880 --> 01:50:53.880 Malam Bimi to Kings Cliffe and that 01:50:54.400 --> 01:50:56.135 the population or the spending 01:50:56.159 --> 01:50:59.159 population of Brunswick Heads had 01:50:59.199 --> 01:51:02.199 diminished. while that was 01:51:02.800 --> 01:51:04.536 upfront, there was a contradiction 01:51:04.560 --> 01:51:06.215 because a couple of business owners 01:51:06.239 --> 01:51:09.239 thought that the advent of parking 01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:13.560 meters had actually resulted in more of 01:51:14.080 --> 01:51:17.080 a turnover of u of people. So you 01:51:17.600 --> 01:51:20.135 weren't getting um some of the locals 01:51:20.159 --> 01:51:22.215 or visitors staying in the one spot 01:51:22.239 --> 01:51:24.215 parking in Brunswick Heads all day. So 01:51:24.239 --> 01:51:26.776 you're actually getting some rotation 01:51:26.800 --> 01:51:28.856 of customers. So they didn't think it 01:51:28.880 --> 01:51:31.095 was such a bad idea. What they did think 01:51:31.119 --> 01:51:34.119 was a bad idea was how much it cost. And 01:51:34.159 --> 01:51:36.215 I think we need to do a lot of research 01:51:36.239 --> 01:51:38.856 in that department. They're charging $5 01:51:38.880 --> 01:51:41.880 an hour up there. Maximum 25 a day. 01:51:42.159 --> 01:51:43.976 Well, you know, that is going to send 01:51:44.000 --> 01:51:46.056 people the other way. And they're also 01:51:46.080 --> 01:51:48.296 stinging the Byron Bay Council. They're 01:51:48.320 --> 01:51:51.256 stinging the locals. They were $50, I 01:51:51.280 --> 01:51:54.280 think, or $55 for a yearly pass. Well, 01:51:54.560 --> 01:51:56.536 of course they revolted against that and 01:51:56.560 --> 01:51:59.560 now that's back to $30. But still, it's 01:51:59.599 --> 01:52:01.736 another tax and that's the problem with 01:52:01.760 --> 01:52:03.496 the paid parking. You've got the 01:52:03.520 --> 01:52:06.215 magnificent Shoalhaven. People come down 01:52:06.239 --> 01:52:08.615 here and one of the reasons they come is 01:52:08.639 --> 01:52:10.695 no paid parking or at least that's a 01:52:10.719 --> 01:52:13.256 bonus of being here and then they go and 01:52:13.280 --> 01:52:16.280 spend and enjoy time accordingly. So, as 01:52:16.960 --> 01:52:18.936 a result of that, I think we do need to 01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:21.175 do some research. we nearly need to have 01:52:21.199 --> 01:52:23.976 a big round table and invite some people 01:52:24.000 --> 01:52:26.856 from other areas who've who've put 01:52:26.880 --> 01:52:29.655 the paid parking to their residents and 01:52:29.679 --> 01:52:31.816 discuss the impacts and I think one of 01:52:31.840 --> 01:52:34.056 the major features quite apart from no 01:52:34.080 --> 01:52:36.776 parking meters is the cost you need 01:52:36.800 --> 01:52:39.575 to pair it back and and not make it 01:52:39.599 --> 01:52:42.056 offensive basically so the questions I 01:52:42.080 --> 01:52:45.080 would say that need to be answered um in 01:52:45.520 --> 01:52:47.416 the in the course of events till the 01:52:47.440 --> 01:52:50.440 preliminary report. Will paid parking 01:52:50.880 --> 01:52:52.856 send visitors elsewhere? In the case of 01:52:52.880 --> 01:52:54.615 Himmes Beach, the whitest sand in 01:52:54.639 --> 01:52:56.856 Australia, will they go on down to 01:52:56.880 --> 01:52:59.655 Blenhan Beach or one of the other 100 01:52:59.679 --> 01:53:02.215 beaches? Will they or will that work in 01:53:02.239 --> 01:53:03.896 favor of the Himmes Beach people? I 01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:05.496 don't know. but the business there, 01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:07.175 they've only got one business at Hims 01:53:07.199 --> 01:53:10.056 Beach, so that's unlikely to be impacted 01:53:10.080 --> 01:53:12.936 unlike Molly for example. what form 01:53:12.960 --> 01:53:15.960 will the paid parking take? Um as in how 01:53:16.159 --> 01:53:17.816 do you do that? how much will be 01:53:17.840 --> 01:53:20.456 charged? I've said that. Um how how much 01:53:20.480 --> 01:53:22.456 to set it up. So when you're doing the 01:53:22.480 --> 01:53:24.135 numbers and the setup, how much is that 01:53:24.159 --> 01:53:26.536 costing? One $2 million? what's it 01:53:26.560 --> 01:53:28.376 going to realize a year? And how you 01:53:28.400 --> 01:53:31.400 going to quantify that immediately 01:53:32.080 --> 01:53:35.016 or or in time? Will locals be totally 01:53:35.040 --> 01:53:37.175 exempt? I've cited the case of 01:53:37.199 --> 01:53:39.095 Brunswick Heads where they they 01:53:39.119 --> 01:53:42.119 aren't exempt they're being stung. Um 01:53:42.719 --> 01:53:45.719 and so it could be that if locals are 01:53:46.400 --> 01:53:49.400 exempt do they then dominate spaces 01:53:49.679 --> 01:53:51.816 which could generate revenue. So you see 01:53:51.840 --> 01:53:54.296 there's all these questions that um are 01:53:54.320 --> 01:53:57.320 raised and one of the members of the 01:53:58.320 --> 01:54:01.320 Berry Business Chamber of Commerce um 01:54:01.360 --> 01:54:03.496 did raise the point of if you're 01:54:03.520 --> 01:54:05.256 doing it online and you you're going 01:54:05.280 --> 01:54:07.016 there and you're swiping your phone or 01:54:07.040 --> 01:54:09.416 whatever. Well, of course some providers 01:54:09.440 --> 01:54:11.496 there there would be service difficulty. 01:54:11.520 --> 01:54:13.736 So it'll be impossible to to get 01:54:13.760 --> 01:54:15.336 service and what happens then. So 01:54:15.360 --> 01:54:18.360 there's a whole range of areas that we 01:54:18.480 --> 01:54:21.480 need to consider um before we we we 01:54:22.560 --> 01:54:24.135 put it to the people and that's what we 01:54:24.159 --> 01:54:26.536 need to do. We need to put it to the 01:54:26.560 --> 01:54:29.175 community and work with them here 01:54:29.199 --> 01:54:32.135 because it's a a big step. But in in 01:54:32.159 --> 01:54:34.376 just putting the foot down on the um on 01:54:34.400 --> 01:54:37.256 the panic, it it's not going to be 01:54:37.280 --> 01:54:40.280 immediate. It's it's in um in the plan 01:54:40.960 --> 01:54:43.256 as councelor Proudoot suggested because 01:54:43.280 --> 01:54:45.336 we're looking for revenue sources and 01:54:45.360 --> 01:54:47.336 when you've got land sales that aren't 01:54:47.360 --> 01:54:50.360 going through um and we need some cash 01:54:51.199 --> 01:54:54.199 this is a desperate measure of course 01:54:54.480 --> 01:54:55.976 council Wilkins that's time 01:54:56.000 --> 01:54:59.000 and that'll do and I'll I'll leave 01:54:59.040 --> 01:55:00.536 it there. Thank you madame mayor. Yeah, 01:55:00.560 --> 01:55:02.536 councelor Kian 01:55:02.560 --> 01:55:05.560 Mor. Um, look, I very supportive of what 01:55:05.599 --> 01:55:07.175 councelor Proudoot in particular has 01:55:07.199 --> 01:55:10.199 said on this. Um, I note that 01:55:11.679 --> 01:55:13.976 like we have in some other discussions. 01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:16.215 What we've got here is a suggestion that 01:55:16.239 --> 01:55:19.239 something be looked at and the word 01:55:20.719 --> 01:55:23.175 non-residents is included in it. So I 01:55:23.199 --> 01:55:24.856 would like to reassure the people 01:55:24.880 --> 01:55:26.456 particularly of Bry where I believe 01:55:26.480 --> 01:55:28.296 there was a bit of concern today in the 01:55:28.320 --> 01:55:31.175 the Facebook forums about getting hit 01:55:31.199 --> 01:55:33.336 with parking fees that that's not what's 01:55:33.360 --> 01:55:35.256 proposed and that this is to look at 01:55:35.280 --> 01:55:37.416 something. So we don't need to spend a 01:55:37.440 --> 01:55:39.416 lot of time tonight debating every 01:55:39.440 --> 01:55:42.440 question that should be asked. Um 01:55:42.719 --> 01:55:45.016 certainly there are successful proposals 01:55:45.040 --> 01:55:47.496 and I would point out I I would thank 01:55:47.520 --> 01:55:50.520 the um the finance review finance and 01:55:51.840 --> 01:55:53.816 infrastructure review panel for raising 01:55:53.840 --> 01:55:55.575 this. It is a good opportunity for 01:55:55.599 --> 01:55:58.376 revenue raising and I would note that 01:55:58.400 --> 01:56:00.135 we in the Greens looked at this quite 01:56:00.159 --> 01:56:01.736 closely before the last election and 01:56:01.760 --> 01:56:03.336 this is quite similar to what's being 01:56:03.360 --> 01:56:05.175 suggested. You don't need to have 01:56:05.199 --> 01:56:07.416 parking meters. There are lots of 01:56:07.440 --> 01:56:09.816 positive modern ways to do it. I would 01:56:09.840 --> 01:56:11.976 recommend looking at at Blue 01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:13.816 Mountains. Also, Ranwick is another area 01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:15.816 where they've had some very successful 01:56:15.840 --> 01:56:17.816 revenue raising with this and this is 01:56:17.840 --> 01:56:19.575 what we need here. Thank you. 01:56:19.599 --> 01:56:22.599 Thank you, councelor Tribe. 01:56:23.280 --> 01:56:26.135 thank you, Madame Mayor. I am very 01:56:26.159 --> 01:56:29.095 concerned about this and share a lot 01:56:29.119 --> 01:56:31.095 of the concerns that councelor Wilkins 01:56:31.119 --> 01:56:32.615 has raised. In fact, I think we could 01:56:32.639 --> 01:56:35.336 have shared notes almost um been on a 01:56:35.360 --> 01:56:36.695 similar journey this week in our 01:56:36.719 --> 01:56:39.416 conversations with people obviously. Um 01:56:39.440 --> 01:56:41.336 look, I I do want to start by saying 01:56:41.360 --> 01:56:44.360 that I think Beach is quite a unique 01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:47.175 situation and I can understand why the 01:56:47.199 --> 01:56:49.256 residents there would be pushing for 01:56:49.280 --> 01:56:51.496 this. It's a it's a small area. It's a 01:56:51.520 --> 01:56:53.976 very very congested area. It's an in 01:56:54.000 --> 01:56:55.736 demand area where we are turning people 01:56:55.760 --> 01:56:57.896 away and there could be a case for that 01:56:57.920 --> 01:56:59.896 that turnover. There is one business 01:56:59.920 --> 01:57:02.215 that wouldn't be materially affected. 01:57:02.239 --> 01:57:03.655 They're already waiting an hour for a 01:57:03.679 --> 01:57:05.976 coffee. it's proposed that it's the 01:57:06.000 --> 01:57:07.496 whole village. So there wouldn't be kind 01:57:07.520 --> 01:57:10.135 of this push out effect. It is a very 01:57:10.159 --> 01:57:13.159 diff unique situation. And I guess I was 01:57:13.599 --> 01:57:16.456 a bit surprised how kind of undercooked 01:57:16.480 --> 01:57:18.695 I think that 2020 report was. I was 01:57:18.719 --> 01:57:21.016 expecting more of a business case and 01:57:21.040 --> 01:57:23.336 more of a talking about the numbers 01:57:23.360 --> 01:57:26.215 as councelor Wilkins said. And it 01:57:26.239 --> 01:57:28.776 although it suggests using that um pay 01:57:28.800 --> 01:57:31.336 and park app, it also suggests having 3 01:57:31.360 --> 01:57:33.816 meters installed just for visibility as 01:57:33.840 --> 01:57:36.056 well as signage and some turnaround 01:57:36.080 --> 01:57:38.215 infrastructure and some some ranges as 01:57:38.239 --> 01:57:39.976 well. So I would like to know what the 01:57:40.000 --> 01:57:42.456 costs are and and then I guess what the 01:57:42.480 --> 01:57:45.416 net gain is. but that is hopefully 01:57:45.440 --> 01:57:48.135 what this report would do um more 01:57:48.159 --> 01:57:50.456 further. It doesn't mention the other 01:57:50.480 --> 01:57:53.336 areas and so for the other suburbs to be 01:57:53.360 --> 01:57:54.856 mentioned like Molly Mook like 01:57:54.880 --> 01:57:57.880 Huskersonen like Bungeree Park at Berry 01:57:58.000 --> 01:57:59.896 this came as very left field to them. 01:57:59.920 --> 01:58:01.575 It's not something that was raised in 01:58:01.599 --> 01:58:04.135 those earlier reports and it's something 01:58:04.159 --> 01:58:06.296 that has been of great concern to those 01:58:06.320 --> 01:58:09.320 areas and in speaking to business 01:58:09.360 --> 01:58:11.256 representatives from each of the areas. 01:58:11.280 --> 01:58:13.575 I know Molly had concern they had 01:58:13.599 --> 01:58:15.575 concern about pressure in other car 01:58:15.599 --> 01:58:17.736 parks like the golf club being pushed 01:58:17.760 --> 01:58:20.615 out there. um getting exemptions for 01:58:20.639 --> 01:58:23.639 events, a general distrust, a fear of 01:58:24.159 --> 01:58:25.896 it being a deterrent and having people 01:58:25.920 --> 01:58:28.920 go to other areas and I note that um if 01:58:29.280 --> 01:58:30.936 you know it was already said tonight, 01:58:30.960 --> 01:58:32.615 perception is reality and if there is 01:58:32.639 --> 01:58:34.695 this perception that it's this applied 01:58:34.719 --> 01:58:36.135 everywhere in the Shoalhaven, will 01:58:36.159 --> 01:58:37.896 people just keep on driving at a time 01:58:37.920 --> 01:58:40.296 where um we really need visitors and 01:58:40.320 --> 01:58:41.976 cost of living is having an impact 01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:43.896 already and spend in our hospitality 01:58:43.920 --> 01:58:46.135 venues and petrol prices and all of 01:58:46.159 --> 01:58:48.456 those things. So would this add to that? 01:58:48.480 --> 01:58:49.896 Particularly as we know the state is 01:58:49.920 --> 01:58:52.376 considering the bed tax as well to 01:58:52.400 --> 01:58:54.215 target tourists and bring back money for 01:58:54.239 --> 01:58:56.215 local infrastructure. So we need to 01:58:56.239 --> 01:58:58.135 weigh up all of these things and and how 01:58:58.159 --> 01:59:00.856 will that affect our our tourism 01:59:00.880 --> 01:59:02.215 industry and the trickle down effect 01:59:02.239 --> 01:59:04.376 that that has. Barry, it's been 01:59:04.400 --> 01:59:06.536 mentioned has been quite vocal on 01:59:06.560 --> 01:59:09.095 this this week. 93% of those surveyed 01:59:09.119 --> 01:59:10.936 were against it. And there's this fear 01:59:10.960 --> 01:59:13.336 that by applying it to bungaree in 01:59:13.360 --> 01:59:14.695 particular, we're hitting up moms and 01:59:14.719 --> 01:59:16.215 dads trying to take their kids to the 01:59:16.239 --> 01:59:19.239 park or Saturday sport where people 01:59:19.440 --> 01:59:21.016 are parking. So it wouldn't actually be 01:59:21.040 --> 01:59:23.256 hitting um it wouldn't be a tourist tax, 01:59:23.280 --> 01:59:24.936 it'd be a sports tax in some ways 01:59:24.960 --> 01:59:27.256 hitting those families trying to get to 01:59:27.280 --> 01:59:30.280 sport on a Saturday. so these are 01:59:30.719 --> 01:59:32.296 all the things that are being raised in 01:59:32.320 --> 01:59:34.135 those areas and and even actually in 01:59:34.159 --> 01:59:36.536 that 2020 report I was it was 01:59:36.560 --> 01:59:38.456 interesting it was just on beach and 01:59:38.480 --> 01:59:41.016 even 40% of the community there didn't 01:59:41.040 --> 01:59:43.416 like it or hated it um which was a 01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:45.496 higher number than I was expecting but 01:59:45.520 --> 01:59:48.135 nonetheless it is a a different 01:59:48.159 --> 01:59:51.159 situation as I said to those other areas 01:59:51.440 --> 01:59:53.736 and pursuing a further report if 01:59:53.760 --> 01:59:56.296 that's what people would like to see 01:59:56.320 --> 01:59:57.976 will help us get the business case and 01:59:58.000 --> 01:59:59.896 the numbers hopefully to see how that 01:59:59.920 --> 02:00:02.456 stacks up and perhaps be a a pilot 02:00:02.480 --> 02:00:05.480 situation. and especially to test how 02:00:06.080 --> 02:00:08.615 people feel about number plate 02:00:08.639 --> 02:00:11.416 technology and all of those things. I 02:00:11.440 --> 02:00:12.936 thought it was really interesting raised 02:00:12.960 --> 02:00:14.776 about service to internet and we know 02:00:14.800 --> 02:00:16.936 that Barry in particular struggles 02:00:16.960 --> 02:00:19.655 during market days and busy times and 02:00:19.679 --> 02:00:21.256 how will they be able to get onto the 02:00:21.280 --> 02:00:22.936 pay and park app. That's a really 02:00:22.960 --> 02:00:24.856 interesting point. So I guess where I'm 02:00:24.880 --> 02:00:27.880 getting to is I would like to um 02:00:28.480 --> 02:00:30.296 formally move an amendment that we 02:00:30.320 --> 02:00:32.936 remove that it just beheims beach. So in 02:00:32.960 --> 02:00:35.256 part two that we remove Molly Muk 02:00:35.280 --> 02:00:38.280 Huskasen and Boari Berry and that this 02:00:39.280 --> 02:00:41.175 report just focuses on him speech at 02:00:41.199 --> 02:00:43.336 this time building on that initial 02:00:43.360 --> 02:00:45.976 report that just discussed him 02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:48.936 speeches 2020 that was referenced. 02:00:48.960 --> 02:00:51.175 Councelor Proudford, are you happy to 02:00:51.199 --> 02:00:54.135 accept that amendment? 02:00:54.159 --> 02:00:57.159 No, I I think we're just after a report. 02:00:57.760 --> 02:00:59.736 I think we can get a report back. It may 02:00:59.760 --> 02:01:02.760 well be that we we pilot trial times, 02:01:04.639 --> 02:01:07.639 but you can't have too much information. 02:01:07.679 --> 02:01:10.296 Mhm. It's the council tribe. Do you want 02:01:10.320 --> 02:01:12.536 to move it as a formal amendment? Do I 02:01:12.560 --> 02:01:14.936 have a seconder? 02:01:14.960 --> 02:01:17.960 There's no seconder, so it lapses. 02:01:18.000 --> 02:01:20.376 Thank you. So, we move to councelor 02:01:20.400 --> 02:01:21.976 Kemp. 02:01:22.000 --> 02:01:25.000 Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, look, I 02:01:25.040 --> 02:01:26.936 have a few concerns here. I've been 02:01:26.960 --> 02:01:29.960 looking online at the thing called the 02:01:30.239 --> 02:01:32.456 internet of things where everything is 02:01:32.480 --> 02:01:35.480 uploaded from all this technology. , 02:01:35.599 --> 02:01:37.416 quite a lot of it involves the cameras 02:01:37.440 --> 02:01:39.496 that are being installed around the the 02:01:39.520 --> 02:01:42.215 places that we're seeing a lot of now. 02:01:42.239 --> 02:01:44.056 It's all being uploaded. all our 02:01:44.080 --> 02:01:46.296 information, who's driving the car, who 02:01:46.320 --> 02:01:49.320 this is, to me another extension of an 02:01:49.360 --> 02:01:51.736 invasion of privacy. 02:01:51.760 --> 02:01:53.496 Um, 02:01:53.520 --> 02:01:56.215 and and and that issue, I'll flesh that 02:01:56.239 --> 02:01:59.239 around, is um 02:01:59.280 --> 02:02:02.135 identifying non-residents. 02:02:02.159 --> 02:02:03.976 How do you do that? So, you scan 02:02:04.000 --> 02:02:06.536 everyone's number plates, don't you? So, 02:02:06.560 --> 02:02:08.376 you scan everyone's number plates and 02:02:08.400 --> 02:02:10.296 that all gets uploaded and they work it 02:02:10.320 --> 02:02:12.376 out there. So, there you are at that 02:02:12.400 --> 02:02:13.416 time. 02:02:13.440 --> 02:02:16.440 that place. It's a whole thing of where 02:02:16.880 --> 02:02:19.880 you are, what you're doing. 02:02:20.159 --> 02:02:22.456 This is the concerns that I'm relaying 02:02:22.480 --> 02:02:25.480 to you from what I see online. People 02:02:25.920 --> 02:02:28.920 are angry out there. They do not want 02:02:29.440 --> 02:02:32.440 it. That's one of the major issues. 02:02:32.560 --> 02:02:35.256 Again, you go down the beach, cameras, 02:02:35.280 --> 02:02:37.655 cameras, cameras. People have had 02:02:37.679 --> 02:02:40.679 enough. So, I'll go now to tourism, I 02:02:41.280 --> 02:02:43.095 think. can correct me if I'm wrong that 02:02:43.119 --> 02:02:46.119 tourism's down nearly 50%. If if is that 02:02:46.960 --> 02:02:48.215 correct? 02:02:48.239 --> 02:02:50.536 I'd have to refer that to the CEO. 02:02:50.560 --> 02:02:52.856 I I probably need it on notice. I don't 02:02:52.880 --> 02:02:55.816 want to jump on him like that. But um if 02:02:55.840 --> 02:02:58.135 tourism I know tourism's down quite a 02:02:58.159 --> 02:03:01.159 lot and I've been watching that number 02:03:01.360 --> 02:03:02.856 and I've been watching what's happening 02:03:02.880 --> 02:03:05.416 in Ulladulla and Malmuk. 02:03:05.440 --> 02:03:08.056 It's dying. I'm really concerned about 02:03:08.080 --> 02:03:10.056 what's happening in the tourism side of 02:03:10.080 --> 02:03:12.856 things down there. And in if councelor 02:03:12.880 --> 02:03:14.776 tribe said there's a bed tax, well 02:03:14.800 --> 02:03:17.416 that's going to hurt tourism a lot more 02:03:17.440 --> 02:03:19.655 in my opinion and in the opinions of 02:03:19.679 --> 02:03:22.679 everybody else already struggling. Um, 02:03:25.760 --> 02:03:27.736 I also want to bring to your attention, 02:03:27.760 --> 02:03:29.496 and I think that this should go in on 02:03:29.520 --> 02:03:32.520 the recommendation, that we investigate, 02:03:33.760 --> 02:03:36.376 and I'd like this to be formal, that we 02:03:36.400 --> 02:03:38.536 investigate what happened to Baitman's 02:03:38.560 --> 02:03:41.336 Bay. Baitman's Bay put in cameras 02:03:41.360 --> 02:03:44.360 everywhere, cost them a fortune. 02:03:45.119 --> 02:03:48.056 They did all the car parks and they put 02:03:48.080 --> 02:03:50.215 them all along the side and everywhere 02:03:50.239 --> 02:03:53.239 like this was paid parking. 02:03:54.239 --> 02:03:56.695 Do you know it lasted 2 years? They 02:03:56.719 --> 02:03:59.256 ripped them all out. The car parks were 02:03:59.280 --> 02:04:01.896 dead. Nobody wanted to go there. The 02:04:01.920 --> 02:04:03.976 shops were suffering inside the bait 02:04:04.000 --> 02:04:07.000 men's base store. the big mall there. 02:04:07.040 --> 02:04:09.496 I don't know the name of it. Um because 02:04:09.520 --> 02:04:10.856 they said people weren't coming there. 02:04:10.880 --> 02:04:12.615 They're going further down the street 02:04:12.639 --> 02:04:15.095 because the car park was locked up and 02:04:15.119 --> 02:04:16.856 they couldn't be bothered paying for pay 02:04:16.880 --> 02:04:18.456 parking. So, they went and shopped 02:04:18.480 --> 02:04:20.695 elsewhere. They lost a lot of shops in 02:04:20.719 --> 02:04:23.256 there. It affected their tourism. So, 02:04:23.280 --> 02:04:25.816 I'd like to have that what the failure 02:04:25.840 --> 02:04:28.840 of Baitman's Bay cameras that only 02:04:28.960 --> 02:04:31.736 lasted a few years investigated and 02:04:31.760 --> 02:04:34.760 taken into consideration that are we 02:04:35.119 --> 02:04:38.119 actually spending a lot of money 02:04:39.520 --> 02:04:41.655 and expecting people to pay the to go 02:04:41.679 --> 02:04:44.296 onto Molly Beach 02:04:44.320 --> 02:04:46.936 and paid parking when their roads aren't 02:04:46.960 --> 02:04:49.960 even worth it to get there. 02:04:50.000 --> 02:04:51.896 Let's be honest. What are you paying 02:04:51.920 --> 02:04:53.976 for? And we're not going to make that 02:04:54.000 --> 02:04:55.736 much money. Well, we're going to pay for 02:04:55.760 --> 02:04:57.976 the roads out of it, but I damn sure 02:04:58.000 --> 02:04:59.976 don't want to take my car down there. 02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:03.000 It's full of holes at the moment. 02:05:03.440 --> 02:05:06.135 So, there's lots of residents concerns 02:05:06.159 --> 02:05:08.615 and it will affect tourism. People will 02:05:08.639 --> 02:05:11.175 just keep going further south. Have a 02:05:11.199 --> 02:05:14.199 look at the tourism figures now 02:05:15.119 --> 02:05:17.256 and have a look what this may do to 02:05:17.280 --> 02:05:20.280 tourism further to degradate it. I want 02:05:21.119 --> 02:05:22.856 to know how much it's going to cost to 02:05:22.880 --> 02:05:25.880 install. And the last thing is I'm aware 02:05:28.560 --> 02:05:31.095 that a lot of homeless people live down 02:05:31.119 --> 02:05:34.056 there in Mollyok Beach. I'm aware that 02:05:34.080 --> 02:05:37.080 homeless people park in places 02:05:38.480 --> 02:05:41.416 and until this council gets something 02:05:41.440 --> 02:05:44.056 for the homeless people to sleep, I 02:05:44.080 --> 02:05:46.056 don't want to delete where they're going 02:05:46.080 --> 02:05:48.776 to be parking their car to get a night's 02:05:48.800 --> 02:05:51.336 sleep down there safe until there's an 02:05:51.360 --> 02:05:53.175 issue sorted with the homeless down 02:05:53.199 --> 02:05:54.936 there 02:05:54.960 --> 02:05:57.655 where they can go that's safe. I'll be 02:05:57.679 --> 02:05:59.816 voting against this until I get full 02:05:59.840 --> 02:06:01.575 report back on those things that I 02:06:01.599 --> 02:06:04.376 bought raised. Thank you. 02:06:04.400 --> 02:06:07.400 Thank you. So, councelor Norris, 02:06:09.440 --> 02:06:12.135 Mayor White, and trust a motion such 02:06:12.159 --> 02:06:13.575 as this one to get everyone on their 02:06:13.599 --> 02:06:16.599 feet. Um I do really want to 02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:19.896 applaud the financial review and 02:06:19.920 --> 02:06:22.056 instruct finance and infrastructure 02:06:22.080 --> 02:06:23.496 review panel for putting a motion 02:06:23.520 --> 02:06:25.736 forward that I can actually get behind. 02:06:25.760 --> 02:06:28.760 Um, this is a way that non-residents can 02:06:30.000 --> 02:06:33.000 help participate in helping Shoalhaven 02:06:33.840 --> 02:06:36.376 have the assets that we deserve. And and 02:06:36.400 --> 02:06:38.296 if we're putting the Shoalhaven on on 02:06:38.320 --> 02:06:40.536 the world stage, cuz let's be honest, it 02:06:40.560 --> 02:06:42.055 is the jewel in the crown. We're all 02:06:42.079 --> 02:06:44.215 living here. We're living in paradise. 02:06:44.239 --> 02:06:46.615 Um, but we need to be able to fund the 02:06:46.639 --> 02:06:47.976 infrastructure. And as people know, 02:06:48.000 --> 02:06:49.736 Bungaree didn't get its parking finished 02:06:49.760 --> 02:06:51.575 because we ran out of money. you know, 02:06:51.599 --> 02:06:52.776 all these other things have happened 02:06:52.800 --> 02:06:54.776 over time where we Shoalhaven't been able to 02:06:54.800 --> 02:06:57.736 deliver the full the full suite of 02:06:57.760 --> 02:06:59.416 what we should be offering to our our 02:06:59.440 --> 02:07:02.215 tourist. And if we can ask for them to 02:07:02.239 --> 02:07:04.536 chip in a few bucks, you know, when they 02:07:04.560 --> 02:07:07.560 come here and park, why not? Because 02:07:07.760 --> 02:07:09.736 it's a way that we can have money coming 02:07:09.760 --> 02:07:12.135 in that we can provide services a for 02:07:12.159 --> 02:07:14.615 our residents year round. And you know, 02:07:14.639 --> 02:07:16.695 we've seen in the in the stat here that 02:07:16.719 --> 02:07:18.695 the Blue Mountains has collected more 02:07:18.719 --> 02:07:21.416 than 3 million from tourists. Um, now I 02:07:21.440 --> 02:07:23.256 was quibbling about $8,000 before. I 02:07:23.280 --> 02:07:24.536 think three million will go a long way 02:07:24.560 --> 02:07:26.695 to filling in some roads. U, we heard 02:07:26.719 --> 02:07:28.055 our roads report a couple of weeks back, 02:07:28.079 --> 02:07:29.416 so you can go watch that online because 02:07:29.440 --> 02:07:31.496 I know that told us about how far 3 02:07:31.520 --> 02:07:34.135 million can go. Um, but this is a way 02:07:34.159 --> 02:07:36.215 how we can really enforce and make sure 02:07:36.239 --> 02:07:37.736 that we're delivering the services our 02:07:37.760 --> 02:07:40.536 city needs. Um, I I do really want to 02:07:40.560 --> 02:07:42.296 make sure and councelor Killian touched 02:07:42.320 --> 02:07:44.536 on it just before. we did have a 02:07:44.560 --> 02:07:46.376 policy or there was a policy put forward 02:07:46.400 --> 02:07:48.456 at the last election of visitor paid 02:07:48.480 --> 02:07:51.480 parking which was overwhelmingly turned 02:07:51.760 --> 02:07:53.655 into some fear campaign which it was 02:07:53.679 --> 02:07:55.575 never paid parking for residents. It was 02:07:55.599 --> 02:07:58.599 visitor paid parking. Um so maybe if 02:07:58.719 --> 02:08:00.695 this preliminary report comes back to us 02:08:00.719 --> 02:08:03.095 as non-resident visi visitor paid 02:08:03.119 --> 02:08:05.175 parking as the title so that the 02:08:05.199 --> 02:08:07.016 community can clearly see we're not 02:08:07.040 --> 02:08:08.376 going after their pockets. They've 02:08:08.400 --> 02:08:10.055 already spent enough in this city. We're 02:08:10.079 --> 02:08:11.736 going after the people who come to this 02:08:11.760 --> 02:08:14.695 city but don't contribute a lot. Thank 02:08:14.719 --> 02:08:15.896 you, 02:08:15.920 --> 02:08:18.055 Councelor Boyd. 02:08:18.079 --> 02:08:21.079 I I just wanted to um make it clear as I 02:08:21.760 --> 02:08:24.760 think councelor Wilkins said that we 02:08:24.800 --> 02:08:27.496 need to go wider than the blue m in 02:08:27.520 --> 02:08:29.336 number four. We need to go wider than 02:08:29.360 --> 02:08:32.360 the blue mountains council to benchmark. 02:08:32.639 --> 02:08:34.215 It needs to be broader than that because 02:08:34.239 --> 02:08:36.856 there are so many other systems in place 02:08:36.880 --> 02:08:39.175 that could be working better or working 02:08:39.199 --> 02:08:41.736 differently and we can learn from them. 02:08:41.760 --> 02:08:44.760 I think it's a great idea from the 02:08:45.040 --> 02:08:46.936 finance and infrastructure review panel 02:08:46.960 --> 02:08:49.416 and I support it as well. 02:08:49.440 --> 02:08:51.896 Thank you. So I'll just weigh into it 02:08:51.920 --> 02:08:54.920 for a minute. Um so I agree with 02:08:54.960 --> 02:08:56.456 councelor Wilkins. We need to go 02:08:56.480 --> 02:08:58.055 further. There are a lot of councils 02:08:58.079 --> 02:09:00.936 that are doing this now. Um, and it is 02:09:00.960 --> 02:09:02.856 for non-residents. 02:09:02.880 --> 02:09:05.880 In saying that, I get complaints all of 02:09:06.159 --> 02:09:07.896 the time, especially over the holiday 02:09:07.920 --> 02:09:10.776 periods of the rubbish collection, 02:09:10.800 --> 02:09:12.695 especially around Huskinson and other 02:09:12.719 --> 02:09:15.575 areas that we and we have to put on 02:09:15.599 --> 02:09:18.599 extra rubbish detail to be able to the 02:09:19.199 --> 02:09:21.016 trucks to go and pick it up. The 02:09:21.040 --> 02:09:24.040 tourists are costing us money. Um, and 02:09:24.159 --> 02:09:26.536 we don't get any further money from 02:09:26.560 --> 02:09:29.016 anybody else to pay for that. We don't 02:09:29.040 --> 02:09:30.695 get a top up from the state government 02:09:30.719 --> 02:09:32.615 or the federal or you've got all these 02:09:32.639 --> 02:09:34.296 tourists coming here. I will give you 02:09:34.320 --> 02:09:36.536 some extra money. They say look for it 02:09:36.560 --> 02:09:38.376 yourself. So I fully support that we get 02:09:38.400 --> 02:09:40.856 a report back. In relation to the 02:09:40.880 --> 02:09:43.336 technology the technology when that 02:09:43.360 --> 02:09:46.296 report initial report came to council 02:09:46.320 --> 02:09:48.296 there isn't the technology that there is 02:09:48.320 --> 02:09:51.320 today that can be used to actually get 02:09:51.360 --> 02:09:53.896 people to pay for their parking. the non 02:09:53.920 --> 02:09:56.695 and I'll emphasize it again non 02:09:56.719 --> 02:09:59.719 residents. Um yes I have seen the stuff 02:10:00.239 --> 02:10:03.239 on Facebook about um the paid parking 02:10:05.199 --> 02:10:07.416 but I've also had quite a few people 02:10:07.440 --> 02:10:09.736 contact me and say we think it's a great 02:10:09.760 --> 02:10:10.856 idea you're going to charge the 02:10:10.880 --> 02:10:12.376 tourists. We're sick and tired of the 02:10:12.400 --> 02:10:15.175 tourists coming here and you know paying 02:10:15.199 --> 02:10:17.256 out on our city. So if they want to come 02:10:17.280 --> 02:10:18.856 and use our beaches if they want to come 02:10:18.880 --> 02:10:21.655 and use our facilities um then a minor 02:10:21.679 --> 02:10:24.376 cost to them is not um a big ask of 02:10:24.400 --> 02:10:26.936 them. They pay it in Sydney, they pay on 02:10:26.960 --> 02:10:28.536 you can't even go to Palm Beach anymore. 02:10:28.560 --> 02:10:30.456 You have to get on a bus and you have to 02:10:30.480 --> 02:10:32.296 pay to park your car at the parking 02:10:32.320 --> 02:10:33.575 station and you have to pay to get on 02:10:33.599 --> 02:10:35.976 the bus and um and it hasn't stopped 02:10:36.000 --> 02:10:38.856 people going there. It this is it. So I 02:10:38.880 --> 02:10:41.880 welcome a report coming back in relation 02:10:42.079 --> 02:10:44.776 to tourist numbers. I think if you look 02:10:44.800 --> 02:10:47.175 at the statistics, everybody's dropping 02:10:47.199 --> 02:10:49.175 down in tourist numbers. Nobody's 02:10:49.199 --> 02:10:51.496 traveling and there's effects to that. 02:10:51.520 --> 02:10:53.256 The cost of living, but also the war 02:10:53.280 --> 02:10:54.856 that's happening. People are not 02:10:54.880 --> 02:10:57.880 traveling. So I I I that can be all 02:10:58.400 --> 02:11:01.400 factored into the report. Um so I'll go 02:11:01.520 --> 02:11:03.896 to right. Oh, and also in collecting 02:11:03.920 --> 02:11:06.920 data. Um and this is something I picked 02:11:07.360 --> 02:11:09.896 up on recently. a lot of our um data 02:11:09.920 --> 02:11:11.655 that the council's collecting and other 02:11:11.679 --> 02:11:13.336 councils are collecting it because I've 02:11:13.360 --> 02:11:15.896 seen quite a lot of presentations on it. 02:11:15.920 --> 02:11:18.920 Every time you use this, it pings where 02:11:19.440 --> 02:11:22.215 you are and then that data is sold by 02:11:22.239 --> 02:11:25.239 Telra to tell you how many people were 02:11:25.280 --> 02:11:28.280 in a certain location at a certain time. 02:11:28.480 --> 02:11:31.175 So, um do you need to make an amendment 02:11:31.199 --> 02:11:34.199 to anything? Um if I may um just just to 02:11:35.599 --> 02:11:37.575 assist if it's okay 02:11:37.599 --> 02:11:40.599 through you um madame mayor 02:11:40.880 --> 02:11:43.880 if it's possible just to get some 02:11:44.320 --> 02:11:46.856 accuracy in relation to what is required 02:11:46.880 --> 02:11:48.936 just with a preliminary report come 02:11:48.960 --> 02:11:51.496 August because ultimately we could go 02:11:51.520 --> 02:11:53.816 and do a very significant piece of work 02:11:53.840 --> 02:11:56.840 on this. Um I think with a preliminary 02:11:57.199 --> 02:11:59.416 assessment what we would like to be able 02:11:59.440 --> 02:12:02.215 to do is report back in August first 02:12:02.239 --> 02:12:05.175 of all the new innovations that we are 02:12:05.199 --> 02:12:07.416 seeing in this space 02:12:07.440 --> 02:12:09.816 um you know whether it's signage with QR 02:12:09.840 --> 02:12:11.416 codes 02:12:11.440 --> 02:12:13.175 um you know without having to go down 02:12:13.199 --> 02:12:14.536 the traditional path of providing 02:12:14.560 --> 02:12:16.215 parking meters those types of things so 02:12:16.239 --> 02:12:19.016 we can look at best practice in terms 02:12:19.040 --> 02:12:22.040 of innovation in this space. Um secondly 02:12:23.760 --> 02:12:26.760 in relation to um the locations 02:12:29.679 --> 02:12:31.736 um I think it's important that we do get 02:12:31.760 --> 02:12:34.760 a thorough assessment in relation to 02:12:34.880 --> 02:12:37.880 traffic movements and volumes given 02:12:38.560 --> 02:12:41.016 this has dri been driven as we saw 02:12:41.040 --> 02:12:42.936 through the public forum particularly by 02:12:42.960 --> 02:12:45.256 a representative of the um the high 02:12:45.280 --> 02:12:48.280 speech community that we do actually 02:12:48.639 --> 02:12:51.336 have a look at what the real impact of 02:12:51.360 --> 02:12:54.360 pay parking might be in that sense. Um 02:12:54.960 --> 02:12:57.960 and also I think it's important that 02:12:58.560 --> 02:13:01.336 we we just do some benchmarking and 02:13:01.360 --> 02:13:03.175 assessment as to what the cost of 02:13:03.199 --> 02:13:06.199 implementation would be for you. So 02:13:06.480 --> 02:13:09.480 largely a desktop study. Um I'm very 02:13:09.760 --> 02:13:11.736 conscious and sensitive to the resources 02:13:11.760 --> 02:13:14.760 that are available in um our manager of 02:13:14.800 --> 02:13:17.175 technical services team to be able to 02:13:17.199 --> 02:13:20.135 do this. Um, 02:13:20.159 --> 02:13:23.159 and as part of that, I think part four, 02:13:24.159 --> 02:13:27.016 um, I would urge caution on because we 02:13:27.040 --> 02:13:28.776 we could benchmark any number of 02:13:28.800 --> 02:13:30.615 councils and come up with different 02:13:30.639 --> 02:13:32.536 results. So, I'd prefer not just to 02:13:32.560 --> 02:13:35.016 single out one council 02:13:35.040 --> 02:13:36.536 um, in light of the fact that the 02:13:36.560 --> 02:13:39.095 tourism sector in the Blue Mountains is 02:13:39.119 --> 02:13:42.119 very different to the Shoalhavens. So to 02:13:42.480 --> 02:13:44.296 that end, I think we can benchmark Blue 02:13:44.320 --> 02:13:46.296 Mountains, but I'd also recommend we 02:13:46.320 --> 02:13:48.055 actually look at some other coastal 02:13:48.079 --> 02:13:50.296 councils as well, potentially outside of 02:13:50.320 --> 02:13:53.320 New South Wales, , as part of that. I 02:13:53.920 --> 02:13:56.296 think if we understand that as a 02:13:56.320 --> 02:13:58.376 preliminary assessment, 02:13:58.400 --> 02:14:00.215 if this gives direction to the 02:14:00.239 --> 02:14:03.239 councilors come August, then obviously 02:14:03.520 --> 02:14:06.456 as with any implementation of such a 02:14:06.480 --> 02:14:08.135 public policy, you would need to 02:14:08.159 --> 02:14:10.776 undertake proper consultation and what 02:14:10.800 --> 02:14:13.736 have you. I, as I indicated before, I 02:14:13.760 --> 02:14:16.135 think we should remove December 2026 02:14:16.159 --> 02:14:17.575 because I just don't believe that is 02:14:17.599 --> 02:14:20.599 realistic to implement a paid parking 02:14:21.280 --> 02:14:23.816 scheme inside the time frame that would 02:14:23.840 --> 02:14:26.840 be required. So I I don't I just think 02:14:27.040 --> 02:14:29.016 that would be more realistic in that 02:14:29.040 --> 02:14:30.936 sense. So I think if we do the 02:14:30.960 --> 02:14:33.336 preliminary assessment first 02:14:33.360 --> 02:14:36.296 then that gives you greater scope to 02:14:36.320 --> 02:14:38.936 obviously come back and inform the 02:14:38.960 --> 02:14:40.536 council in terms of what you'd like to 02:14:40.560 --> 02:14:43.496 see in terms of roll out consultation 02:14:43.520 --> 02:14:45.175 and the like because no doubt you'll get 02:14:45.199 --> 02:14:47.976 lobbyed on it in the meantime. 02:14:48.000 --> 02:14:49.336 I don't know whether there's anything 02:14:49.360 --> 02:14:52.135 that director Norwood Buckman or for 02:14:52.159 --> 02:14:53.736 that matter Mr. Rexton might want to add 02:14:53.760 --> 02:14:55.736 to to that, but I just I just think it 02:14:55.760 --> 02:14:58.135 gives greater clarity around the nature 02:14:58.159 --> 02:15:00.856 of what you've all just indicated. 02:15:00.880 --> 02:15:02.776 Yeah. So before I go to you, councelor 02:15:02.800 --> 02:15:05.496 Kemp, Council Craboot, are you happy to 02:15:05.520 --> 02:15:07.816 accept those amendments? 02:15:07.840 --> 02:15:10.376 Right. Council Wilkins. Thank you. 02:15:10.400 --> 02:15:12.055 Councelor Kemp, do you have a question? 02:15:12.079 --> 02:15:13.416 You've spoken. 02:15:13.440 --> 02:15:15.816 Yes, please. It's just a question. Um 02:15:15.840 --> 02:15:18.840 would the CEO 02:15:19.119 --> 02:15:22.119 um please add on or consider adding the 02:15:22.560 --> 02:15:24.376 investigation into the Baitman's Bay 02:15:24.400 --> 02:15:26.376 paid parking in that report? 02:15:26.400 --> 02:15:27.496 That will come in here. 02:15:27.520 --> 02:15:27.896 Thank you. 02:15:27.920 --> 02:15:30.296 Yeah. So I think if you look at other 02:15:30.320 --> 02:15:32.055 comparable local government areas with 02:15:32.079 --> 02:15:34.296 paid parking schemes that encapsulates 02:15:34.320 --> 02:15:35.256 papers. 02:15:35.280 --> 02:15:35.976 Thank you. 02:15:36.000 --> 02:15:37.496 Yeah. 02:15:37.520 --> 02:15:39.816 Council Proudfoot write a reply. 02:15:39.840 --> 02:15:42.776 Wave it. All right. So I'll put the 02:15:42.800 --> 02:15:45.496 recommendation. Those voting against the 02:15:45.520 --> 02:15:47.336 recommendation. 02:15:47.360 --> 02:15:50.360 Councelor Tribe votes against the 02:15:50.480 --> 02:15:53.336 councelor Dunn. You voting for or 02:15:53.360 --> 02:15:55.655 against? 02:15:55.679 --> 02:15:58.679 Four. Yep. So the balance vote four. So 02:15:59.520 --> 02:16:01.655 I declare that carried. Um thank you for 02:16:01.679 --> 02:16:03.896 that input. I just need to go back and 02:16:03.920 --> 02:16:06.920 check. Did I get a seconder for FR 26.8? 02:16:11.840 --> 02:16:14.456 No. No, I didn't think so. So, if I can 02:16:14.480 --> 02:16:17.480 just reintroduce 26. So, I did. 02:16:21.679 --> 02:16:23.655 Yep, that's fine. Well, I don't need to 02:16:23.679 --> 02:16:26.376 do that. Thank you. Um, I did forget the 02:16:26.400 --> 02:16:27.896 first one before I go back to you, 02:16:27.920 --> 02:16:30.920 councelor Proudoot. Um, FR 26.5, which 02:16:31.840 --> 02:16:34.840 is inflation and fuel costs for the year 02:16:35.439 --> 02:16:38.439 ending the 30th of June 27. So you happy 02:16:39.359 --> 02:16:41.495 to support that councelor Tribe move 02:16:41.519 --> 02:16:44.375 that seconder councelor Wilkins does 02:16:44.399 --> 02:16:46.856 anybody wish to speak to that? No they 02:16:46.880 --> 02:16:48.375 don't wish to speak there. I'll put that 02:16:48.399 --> 02:16:50.936 anybody wanting to vote against I 02:16:50.960 --> 02:16:53.335 declare that carried unanimously. Now I 02:16:53.359 --> 02:16:55.176 will go back to you councelor Proudfoot 02:16:55.200 --> 02:16:56.936 in relation to the question you had in 02:16:56.960 --> 02:16:59.335 relation to the minutes from the 02:16:59.359 --> 02:17:01.176 finance. Thanks, Madam Chair. Just very 02:17:01.200 --> 02:17:04.056 quickly, I I needed to draw council or 02:17:04.080 --> 02:17:06.776 council law's attention to the DPO 02:17:06.800 --> 02:17:09.575 issues land sales raised by Mr. Dunn 02:17:09.599 --> 02:17:11.816 that he was worried that perhaps the 02:17:11.840 --> 02:17:14.455 sales target is overly optimistic. I 02:17:14.479 --> 02:17:15.896 know the council that were at the 02:17:15.920 --> 02:17:18.615 meeting and also the CEO 02:17:18.639 --> 02:17:21.639 are aware of that um and other staff 02:17:22.000 --> 02:17:23.256 members are aware. Just wanted to point 02:17:23.280 --> 02:17:25.816 it out to council. Thanks, Madam Chair. 02:17:25.840 --> 02:17:28.295 Thank you. Thank you for that. So with 02:17:28.319 --> 02:17:30.615 that um I think we're finished with the 02:17:30.639 --> 02:17:33.639 finance committee. We'll move on to CL 02:17:34.160 --> 02:17:36.455 26.100 02:17:36.479 --> 02:17:39.096 proposed accredititation community 02:17:39.120 --> 02:17:42.120 forums. Councelor Tribe. 02:17:42.719 --> 02:17:45.415 U Madame Mayor first of all could I move 02:17:45.439 --> 02:17:46.776 that we go into committee of the whole 02:17:46.800 --> 02:17:48.695 for this cuz I suspect there'll be a 02:17:48.719 --> 02:17:49.896 little bit of back and forth and 02:17:49.920 --> 02:17:51.176 discussion 02:17:51.200 --> 02:17:54.200 on this. Do you have a seconder? 02:17:54.559 --> 02:17:57.256 Councelor Boyd. Um, those in favor of 02:17:57.280 --> 02:18:00.280 moving into the committee of the whole, 02:18:01.280 --> 02:18:03.655 , those wishing to vote for, I'll call 02:18:03.679 --> 02:18:05.736 it out. Councelor Crystal, councelor 02:18:05.760 --> 02:18:08.760 Clancy, Council Boyd, Councelor , 02:18:08.960 --> 02:18:11.575 Killian, Council Tribe wishing to vote. 02:18:11.599 --> 02:18:14.599 Councelor Wilkins, councelor Casmir. So, 02:18:14.800 --> 02:18:17.256 it's nobody wishing to vote against. So, 02:18:17.280 --> 02:18:19.016 we can move into the committee at the 02:18:19.040 --> 02:18:20.936 whole. And I'll put a time limit on 02:18:20.960 --> 02:18:23.896 that. Um, because I know we've got to 02:18:23.920 --> 02:18:26.535 get through the paper. So 15 minutes. 02:18:26.559 --> 02:18:27.096 Sure. 02:18:27.120 --> 02:18:29.096 Yeah, 15 minute time limit on it. 02:18:29.120 --> 02:18:31.976 Thanks. 02:18:32.000 --> 02:18:35.000 Um I'll talk quickly then. Um firstly, I 02:18:35.200 --> 02:18:37.096 um am really glad that we're at this 02:18:37.120 --> 02:18:40.056 point and considering where we were a 02:18:40.080 --> 02:18:42.615 few months ago. It's great that we are 02:18:42.639 --> 02:18:45.639 keeping CCBs alive in a in a in a 02:18:45.920 --> 02:18:48.295 different way in part of an ACF model 02:18:48.319 --> 02:18:50.295 and having them as an important part of 02:18:50.319 --> 02:18:52.535 our future. I think there's just a few 02:18:52.559 --> 02:18:54.776 things, just a few tiny tweaks that we'd 02:18:54.800 --> 02:18:56.136 like to really get right and make sure 02:18:56.160 --> 02:18:59.016 we get right at this point so that we 02:18:59.040 --> 02:19:02.040 can move along smoothly. the 02:19:04.319 --> 02:19:07.319 first is I think just some points that 02:19:08.000 --> 02:19:09.575 won't come as any surprise to anyone, 02:19:09.599 --> 02:19:12.599 but the deputy raised them and anyone 02:19:13.359 --> 02:19:14.856 else who's had numerous calls about 02:19:14.880 --> 02:19:17.880 this. There's just a few references in 02:19:18.080 --> 02:19:20.615 the report, the ACF model that we're 02:19:20.639 --> 02:19:23.639 wanting to update. One is removing 02:19:25.280 --> 02:19:27.016 replacing any reference of a 02:19:27.040 --> 02:19:30.040 political with nonparty political. 02:19:30.479 --> 02:19:33.479 And this goes into I guess making the 02:19:34.960 --> 02:19:37.960 point that CCBs or ACFs as they'll 02:19:38.960 --> 02:19:41.655 now be known are really excellent at 02:19:41.679 --> 02:19:44.679 sharing information and having these 02:19:44.960 --> 02:19:47.335 discussions on these what might be seem 02:19:47.359 --> 02:19:50.359 as a political issue and not taking a 02:19:50.880 --> 02:19:52.616 particular side or endorsing a 02:19:52.640 --> 02:19:54.696 particular person or party but being 02:19:54.720 --> 02:19:57.720 able to have those those conversations 02:19:58.080 --> 02:20:01.080 and and I guess the the point that I 02:20:01.359 --> 02:20:04.359 made the other night when the deputy 02:20:05.920 --> 02:20:07.976 I questioned the deputy about this as 02:20:08.000 --> 02:20:11.000 well. it goes into the the point 02:20:11.600 --> 02:20:13.736 there in the annual compliance checklist 02:20:13.760 --> 02:20:15.816 about operates on a non-party political 02:20:15.840 --> 02:20:18.216 basis and must not hold election forums. 02:20:18.240 --> 02:20:20.136 I'd really like to see election forum 02:20:20.160 --> 02:20:22.375 struck out of there. as I said I 02:20:22.399 --> 02:20:24.375 think meet the candidate forums are a 02:20:24.399 --> 02:20:27.096 really important part of what ACFs offer 02:20:27.120 --> 02:20:29.976 the community not to present any one 02:20:30.000 --> 02:20:32.776 person or one side of views but to allow 02:20:32.800 --> 02:20:34.375 to present the issues and allow 02:20:34.399 --> 02:20:36.056 community members to make a decision for 02:20:36.080 --> 02:20:37.576 themselves. 02:20:37.600 --> 02:20:40.600 so that's two changes so far that I'm 02:20:40.960 --> 02:20:43.335 suggesting to this document. Um the 02:20:43.359 --> 02:20:45.736 third is that the grants that they be 02:20:45.760 --> 02:20:48.760 provided be changed from $650 to up to 02:20:49.040 --> 02:20:50.616 $1,000. 02:20:50.640 --> 02:20:52.696 and that's to reflect not just the 02:20:52.720 --> 02:20:55.335 administration but the insurance that 02:20:55.359 --> 02:20:57.496 they'll have to cover now as well that 02:20:57.520 --> 02:20:59.256 council won't be doing that for them and 02:20:59.280 --> 02:21:01.736 has been um some of them have had 02:21:01.760 --> 02:21:04.295 different quotes for you know $1,500 or 02:21:04.319 --> 02:21:06.856 $2,000 a year. So it's a significant 02:21:06.880 --> 02:21:09.176 cost that they're going to bear. So 02:21:09.200 --> 02:21:11.736 changing that to up to 1,000 would would 02:21:11.760 --> 02:21:14.760 better help them to um to meet these new 02:21:15.280 --> 02:21:17.016 requirements. 02:21:17.040 --> 02:21:20.040 thirdly, I and I don't have 02:21:21.520 --> 02:21:23.736 wording for this necessarily, but I 02:21:23.760 --> 02:21:25.576 think I suspect others will. It's just 02:21:25.600 --> 02:21:27.415 about the review process and 02:21:27.439 --> 02:21:29.816 strengthening that. So if someone is 02:21:29.840 --> 02:21:31.656 does have their accredititation stripped 02:21:31.680 --> 02:21:33.896 away from them, that there can be a a 02:21:33.920 --> 02:21:36.920 time frame put on that and and a and 02:21:37.600 --> 02:21:39.656 a a review process so that if a new 02:21:39.680 --> 02:21:41.896 committee comes into being and wants to 02:21:41.920 --> 02:21:44.696 be assessed for accreditation that 02:21:44.720 --> 02:21:47.415 they can be. And then the last oh 02:21:47.439 --> 02:21:49.016 actually no there's two more I'll raise 02:21:49.040 --> 02:21:51.256 one that I I would really like to see us 02:21:51.280 --> 02:21:54.280 change is from part seven where we talk 02:21:54.640 --> 02:21:57.576 about the accredititation process and 02:21:57.600 --> 02:21:59.896 that the CEO will be responsible for the 02:21:59.920 --> 02:22:02.455 assessment. I think it would 02:22:02.479 --> 02:22:05.176 provide comfort to everyone if we could 02:22:05.200 --> 02:22:07.656 see perhaps CEO in conjunction with 02:22:07.680 --> 02:22:09.976 governance staff or or council's risk 02:22:10.000 --> 02:22:12.936 manager. just having I you know I'm 02:22:12.960 --> 02:22:15.415 assuming even the CEO probably doesn't 02:22:15.439 --> 02:22:18.439 want to unilaterally make decisions as a 02:22:19.439 --> 02:22:22.136 as a one-man band to to make these 02:22:22.160 --> 02:22:25.160 calls and I think just having I guess 02:22:25.359 --> 02:22:28.359 a designated um group who look at that 02:22:29.280 --> 02:22:32.280 and review that would be helpful 02:22:32.960 --> 02:22:34.375 and then the last thing is more of a 02:22:34.399 --> 02:22:36.536 question for debate. it was raised 02:22:36.560 --> 02:22:39.560 with me that the annual accreditation 02:22:40.560 --> 02:22:43.560 process could be quite ownorous and I 02:22:43.760 --> 02:22:45.736 wonder if there's appetite to increase 02:22:45.760 --> 02:22:48.760 that to perhaps every 3 years or four 02:22:48.960 --> 02:22:51.335 years um 02:22:51.359 --> 02:22:53.896 to reduce the administration burden. But 02:22:53.920 --> 02:22:55.576 I guess that's a question mark I'll put 02:22:55.600 --> 02:22:57.656 out there. that the other four 02:22:57.680 --> 02:23:00.536 amendments that I proposed I would I 02:23:00.560 --> 02:23:03.560 would really like to see um changed in 02:23:03.760 --> 02:23:06.760 that forum model document that's in the 02:23:07.520 --> 02:23:10.295 attachments and then have that as part 02:23:10.319 --> 02:23:12.455 of one point one so adopt the 02:23:12.479 --> 02:23:14.696 accredited forums policy and operating 02:23:14.720 --> 02:23:17.720 model with the changes to replace the 02:23:17.920 --> 02:23:19.896 existing community consultative bodies 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:22.920 is what number one would read um but 02:23:23.120 --> 02:23:25.176 really happy with the rest of it really 02:23:25.200 --> 02:23:27.016 happy with the work that's been done. I 02:23:27.040 --> 02:23:28.776 went to each of the three public 02:23:28.800 --> 02:23:31.576 workshops and I think this largely 02:23:31.600 --> 02:23:34.600 reflects the feedback that was given um 02:23:34.640 --> 02:23:37.335 particularly around ensuring we have 02:23:37.359 --> 02:23:39.096 place-based engagement models going 02:23:39.120 --> 02:23:40.856 forward and I don't want to take up all 02:23:40.880 --> 02:23:43.335 the time so I'll I'll um I'll leave it 02:23:43.359 --> 02:23:45.896 there for others to fine-tune that 02:23:45.920 --> 02:23:47.496 language. 02:23:47.520 --> 02:23:49.656 Yeah. So I'll just make a comment on the 02:23:49.680 --> 02:23:52.680 insurance um 650. So currently there are 02:23:54.560 --> 02:23:57.415 CCBs that do their own insurance. They 02:23:57.439 --> 02:23:59.656 do not rely on the council's insurance. 02:23:59.680 --> 02:24:01.496 And one of the reasons they do their own 02:24:01.520 --> 02:24:04.136 insurance is because of the activities 02:24:04.160 --> 02:24:06.936 they do. So that's why they're getting 02:24:06.960 --> 02:24:09.960 quotes of a,000 to $2,000 is because of 02:24:10.240 --> 02:24:13.096 the activities. Now, um, and I'm not 02:24:13.120 --> 02:24:16.120 singling out any one CCB, but for 02:24:16.399 --> 02:24:18.936 instance, those CCBs that have annual 02:24:18.960 --> 02:24:21.816 fireworks, and there are a few, they 02:24:21.840 --> 02:24:24.840 have to pay a premium for fireworks. Um 02:24:25.280 --> 02:24:27.656 the last thing I would like to see is 02:24:27.680 --> 02:24:30.680 that um we start getting all the CCBs 02:24:31.520 --> 02:24:33.096 putting in or the accredited 02:24:33.120 --> 02:24:35.335 associations putting in to have annual 02:24:35.359 --> 02:24:37.976 fireworks cuz we've already closed all 02:24:38.000 --> 02:24:41.000 that door down in previous councils. So 02:24:42.000 --> 02:24:45.000 if you say up to a up to $1,000 02:24:45.359 --> 02:24:48.295 then we would have to ask what are they 02:24:48.319 --> 02:24:50.216 insuring 02:24:50.240 --> 02:24:52.455 because they have community markets. So 02:24:52.479 --> 02:24:55.479 they insure themselves. So the ones that 02:24:55.760 --> 02:24:58.375 hold community markets which is Kalala 02:24:58.399 --> 02:25:01.399 Bay um they insure for those community 02:25:01.439 --> 02:25:04.136 markets. So it's depending on what 02:25:04.160 --> 02:25:05.896 you're insuring for as to what your 02:25:05.920 --> 02:25:08.375 premium would be. So if you're going to 02:25:08.399 --> 02:25:10.455 up it to a hundred thou sorry to a 02:25:10.479 --> 02:25:13.479 million sorry to a thousand dollars um 02:25:14.080 --> 02:25:16.696 we would have to have criteria about 02:25:16.720 --> 02:25:19.720 what we would support for insurance 02:25:19.840 --> 02:25:22.616 because we will be hit with a couple of 02:25:22.640 --> 02:25:25.256 nice big insurance bills and if I 02:25:25.280 --> 02:25:27.496 remember correctly and I'm stand to be 02:25:27.520 --> 02:25:30.056 corrected I think currently we pay about 02:25:30.080 --> 02:25:33.080 $18,000 a year was in the report that 02:25:33.359 --> 02:25:35.256 originally came to council we pay about 02:25:35.280 --> 02:25:37.736 $18.5,000 02:25:37.760 --> 02:25:39.896 for the insurance premium that we 02:25:39.920 --> 02:25:42.616 currently insure them with. So if you 02:25:42.640 --> 02:25:45.640 look at um the number of CCBs, there are 02:25:45.760 --> 02:25:48.295 few and they're incorporated that are 02:25:48.319 --> 02:25:49.976 insuring themselves. So I'll just add 02:25:50.000 --> 02:25:52.536 that to the the debate. So councelor 02:25:52.560 --> 02:25:55.560 Boyd 02:25:58.000 --> 02:26:00.536 um I've submitted the changes that I 02:26:00.560 --> 02:26:03.096 would like to see made um and there's 02:26:03.120 --> 02:26:04.936 quite a few of them and they're 02:26:04.960 --> 02:26:06.856 reasonably detailed. 02:26:06.880 --> 02:26:09.880 Um the first one is in section if you're 02:26:09.920 --> 02:26:12.776 looking at the um 02:26:12.800 --> 02:26:15.800 the model that's in the attachment. Um 02:26:16.160 --> 02:26:19.160 and I I want to um the amendments that 02:26:20.080 --> 02:26:23.080 I've suggested um reflect the views that 02:26:23.280 --> 02:26:25.176 were expressed last week at the public 02:26:25.200 --> 02:26:28.200 forum. Um and they ensure that ACFs 02:26:28.560 --> 02:26:30.616 maintain their independence from council 02:26:30.640 --> 02:26:32.455 which is one of the aims of of the 02:26:32.479 --> 02:26:35.479 redevelopment of this these community 02:26:35.680 --> 02:26:37.096 organiza or the structure of the 02:26:37.120 --> 02:26:39.176 community organizations and to ensure 02:26:39.200 --> 02:26:41.335 that the accredititation and suspension 02:26:41.359 --> 02:26:44.359 process remains objective. Um and I'm 02:26:45.040 --> 02:26:48.040 also keen to see that there's a um an 02:26:48.399 --> 02:26:50.776 additional point to review the model 02:26:50.800 --> 02:26:53.176 after it is completed a complete cycle 02:26:53.200 --> 02:26:56.056 of operation. And if we stick at a 02:26:56.080 --> 02:26:57.576 year's 02:26:57.600 --> 02:26:59.335 accredititation after a year that would 02:26:59.359 --> 02:27:02.359 be 30th of May 2027 so after a whole 02:27:03.280 --> 02:27:06.216 process has gone through. Um so in 02:27:06.240 --> 02:27:09.240 section three the second top dot point 02:27:09.840 --> 02:27:12.375 um I would want to replace the work the 02:27:12.399 --> 02:27:15.016 wording with ACFs must maintain party 02:27:15.040 --> 02:27:17.256 political neutrality 02:27:17.280 --> 02:27:19.576 and as an organization must not 02:27:19.600 --> 02:27:21.256 participate in party political 02:27:21.280 --> 02:27:24.056 campaigning endorsement fundraising or 02:27:24.080 --> 02:27:26.536 association with political parties or 02:27:26.560 --> 02:27:28.696 candidates in any aspect of the operate 02:27:28.720 --> 02:27:31.576 their operations. Members of ACFs are 02:27:31.600 --> 02:27:34.600 not precluded from party polit political 02:27:34.640 --> 02:27:37.256 activities as private citizens and must 02:27:37.280 --> 02:27:38.936 not portray themselves as 02:27:38.960 --> 02:27:41.656 representatives of the ACF while they're 02:27:41.680 --> 02:27:44.136 undertaking those um party political 02:27:44.160 --> 02:27:47.160 activities. In section 10.1, increase 02:27:47.439 --> 02:27:50.439 the annual grant to $1,000. 02:27:51.200 --> 02:27:53.656 $1,000 recognizes the true cost of 02:27:53.680 --> 02:27:56.056 administering a community association 02:27:56.080 --> 02:27:58.455 and assists the community associations 02:27:58.479 --> 02:28:01.415 to manage efficient online communication 02:28:01.439 --> 02:28:03.896 with members at and between meetings. 02:28:03.920 --> 02:28:05.976 It's actually quite expensive to 02:28:06.000 --> 02:28:09.000 communicate to have the right equipment 02:28:09.040 --> 02:28:11.896 to be a IT equipment to be able to 02:28:11.920 --> 02:28:14.920 communicate effectively in a in 2026. 02:28:17.120 --> 02:28:19.576 Um in section 11.1 02:28:19.600 --> 02:28:22.600 the last sentence I would ex I would 02:28:22.800 --> 02:28:25.176 like to read accreditation may be 02:28:25.200 --> 02:28:27.496 withdrawn permanently following a third 02:28:27.520 --> 02:28:30.136 substantial complaint by a decision of 02:28:30.160 --> 02:28:32.776 elected council. So rather than a 02:28:32.800 --> 02:28:35.800 decision go to the CEO is it um to to 02:28:37.920 --> 02:28:40.920 for it to come before council. Also in 02:28:40.960 --> 02:28:43.960 section 11.1 I suggest suspension should 02:28:44.000 --> 02:28:46.536 have a defined length and would change 02:28:46.560 --> 02:28:49.256 change to upon receipt of a second 02:28:49.280 --> 02:28:51.656 substantiated complaint. The CEO will 02:28:51.680 --> 02:28:54.375 issue a suspension notice for a period 02:28:54.399 --> 02:28:57.399 of either 6 or 12 months. Um, I think 02:28:58.240 --> 02:29:01.240 that's a a for decision whether it be 02:29:01.280 --> 02:29:03.976 six or 12 or whether you have both 02:29:04.000 --> 02:29:06.455 depending on the severity of the um 02:29:06.479 --> 02:29:09.479 reason for the complaint. 02:29:09.840 --> 02:29:12.840 Um, in section 12 02:29:13.760 --> 02:29:16.760 I'd like it to read 02:29:16.960 --> 02:29:18.856 section 12 on suspension and withdrawal 02:29:18.880 --> 02:29:21.335 of accreditation. Accreditation may be 02:29:21.359 --> 02:29:23.976 suspended or withdrawn where a forum 02:29:24.000 --> 02:29:27.000 engages in contact that causes conduct 02:29:27.920 --> 02:29:30.455 sorry that causes psychological harm to 02:29:30.479 --> 02:29:33.479 council elected officials or staff. 02:29:33.760 --> 02:29:35.816 Delete I don't is it up there on the 02:29:35.840 --> 02:29:37.576 board what I've written? I don't know. I 02:29:37.600 --> 02:29:40.600 can't read it from here. um delete the 02:29:40.720 --> 02:29:43.720 first bit and just have it um as is 02:29:44.640 --> 02:29:46.216 found by Fair Trading to be 02:29:46.240 --> 02:29:48.696 non-compliant with terms of associations 02:29:48.720 --> 02:29:51.720 incorporation act 2009. And in the last 02:29:52.160 --> 02:29:54.936 dot point readers party political 02:29:54.960 --> 02:29:57.656 neutrality. 02:29:57.680 --> 02:29:59.736 Um, personally I don't think that the 02:29:59.760 --> 02:30:01.816 CEO or other council staff should be 02:30:01.840 --> 02:30:04.295 deciding on who engages in political 02:30:04.319 --> 02:30:06.216 activity because it's very subjective 02:30:06.240 --> 02:30:08.216 and I think we see that at every council 02:30:08.240 --> 02:30:11.240 meeting. Um, 02:30:11.840 --> 02:30:13.335 have I got that written there? Because I 02:30:13.359 --> 02:30:15.736 don't want it written in the 02:30:15.760 --> 02:30:17.896 it's not there. I can't read it from 02:30:17.920 --> 02:30:20.920 here so I'm not sure what's there. Um, 02:30:21.840 --> 02:30:23.896 number the annual compliance list is 02:30:23.920 --> 02:30:26.920 section 14. And in section 14, delete 02:30:27.439 --> 02:30:30.439 the following dot point and replace with 02:30:31.200 --> 02:30:33.176 sorry, delete the final dot point and 02:30:33.200 --> 02:30:34.856 replace with maintains particle 02:30:34.880 --> 02:30:37.816 political neutrality. Add a new section 02:30:37.840 --> 02:30:40.840 15. This ACF operating policy and policy 02:30:41.600 --> 02:30:43.656 model must be reviewed by the 30th of 02:30:43.680 --> 02:30:46.680 May 2028 in consultation. 02:30:48.960 --> 02:30:51.960 2028 or 2020? Yeah, 2028. by 30 May 2028 02:30:53.600 --> 02:30:56.056 in consultation with 02:30:56.080 --> 02:30:59.080 um accredited community forums. 02:31:00.160 --> 02:31:02.216 So I'm just going to go to the CEO. 02:31:02.240 --> 02:31:03.496 It is in there is it? 02:31:03.520 --> 02:31:05.096 Um can I just get 02:31:05.120 --> 02:31:08.120 sorry in se where I said in section 12 I 02:31:08.240 --> 02:31:09.736 don't want that bit in 02:31:09.760 --> 02:31:12.136 brackets. Sorry I did it in a hurry as 02:31:12.160 --> 02:31:13.976 usual and it's 02:31:14.000 --> 02:31:15.496 not I may have made mistakes. 02:31:15.520 --> 02:31:17.896 So finish at neutrality. 02:31:17.920 --> 02:31:18.856 Yeah. 02:31:18.880 --> 02:31:20.776 Yes. 02:31:20.800 --> 02:31:22.536 Right. So CEO. 02:31:22.560 --> 02:31:24.536 So that's fairly complicated. I'm sorry 02:31:24.560 --> 02:31:27.335 everyone. It's not um it's hard to 02:31:27.359 --> 02:31:29.576 follow when I go through it point by 02:31:29.600 --> 02:31:31.576 point like that, but I I hope you can 02:31:31.600 --> 02:31:33.976 see it up there. I can't, but hopefully 02:31:34.000 --> 02:31:36.616 you can. 02:31:36.640 --> 02:31:39.335 Could I maybe just seek some clarity um 02:31:39.359 --> 02:31:41.176 please just in relation to a number of 02:31:41.200 --> 02:31:43.335 key points there through council boy. Um 02:31:43.359 --> 02:31:45.176 so if you could go back up um first of 02:31:45.200 --> 02:31:48.200 all um 02:31:48.240 --> 02:31:51.240 the I think section 3 does cover the 02:31:52.080 --> 02:31:55.080 issue of ACFs being political. I think 02:31:56.080 --> 02:31:58.536 you I think you've encapsulated that 02:31:58.560 --> 02:32:01.560 very well. Um, you know, I think one of 02:32:02.399 --> 02:32:05.256 the key observations that I'd make 02:32:05.280 --> 02:32:06.856 through the consultation process is that 02:32:06.880 --> 02:32:09.880 the the former CCBs wanted to be able to 02:32:10.800 --> 02:32:12.536 have the impromata of saying to the 02:32:12.560 --> 02:32:15.415 community we have a direct link to 02:32:15.439 --> 02:32:17.976 council. Um, and I think it is important 02:32:18.000 --> 02:32:20.696 that as a function that that 02:32:20.720 --> 02:32:23.720 principle be upheld. So, um I think if 02:32:24.080 --> 02:32:25.656 you get into the dangers of having 02:32:25.680 --> 02:32:27.496 election forums and particular 02:32:27.520 --> 02:32:29.016 candidates 02:32:29.040 --> 02:32:31.656 being excluded or not invited or all 02:32:31.680 --> 02:32:33.976 these types of things, it does open up 02:32:34.000 --> 02:32:37.000 um criticism to the organization as 02:32:38.000 --> 02:32:41.000 an incorporated body. Um secondly, 02:32:43.040 --> 02:32:46.040 the issue around insurance. One of the 02:32:46.560 --> 02:32:49.560 reasons that um we chose the $650 amount 02:32:51.280 --> 02:32:53.656 was first of all these organizations are 02:32:53.680 --> 02:32:55.496 getting free venue hire in any council 02:32:55.520 --> 02:32:58.520 facility. First point. Second point that 02:32:59.120 --> 02:33:02.120 um if you're a largely an administrative 02:33:02.880 --> 02:33:05.736 incorporated body undertaking this type 02:33:05.760 --> 02:33:07.816 of administrative function and not 02:33:07.840 --> 02:33:10.136 engaging in community activities which 02:33:10.160 --> 02:33:11.656 does increase your premium particular if 02:33:11.680 --> 02:33:14.680 you have events over 500 people then on 02:33:15.120 --> 02:33:17.256 average public liability insurance is 02:33:17.280 --> 02:33:20.280 somewhere between 400 and $850. So the 02:33:20.399 --> 02:33:22.936 expectation would be like given the 02:33:22.960 --> 02:33:25.176 financial situation of the council that 02:33:25.200 --> 02:33:27.176 we would encourage 02:33:27.200 --> 02:33:30.200 ACFs to shop around and get the best 02:33:30.240 --> 02:33:32.136 deal and there has been suggestions made 02:33:32.160 --> 02:33:35.160 by the berry reform in relation to to 02:33:35.439 --> 02:33:38.439 that. Um the other thing which I did 02:33:39.439 --> 02:33:41.016 pick up very early on through the 02:33:41.040 --> 02:33:44.040 consultation process was that if council 02:33:45.600 --> 02:33:47.176 laws 02:33:47.200 --> 02:33:48.856 were to make the decision in relation 02:33:48.880 --> 02:33:51.335 to whether a body should be accredited 02:33:51.359 --> 02:33:53.896 or not that does take it into the realm 02:33:53.920 --> 02:33:56.920 of a different approach by these 02:33:58.160 --> 02:34:01.160 forums to survive or not. I think the 02:34:01.280 --> 02:34:03.736 the checklist is pretty clearcut on your 02:34:03.760 --> 02:34:05.736 obligations in terms of being 02:34:05.760 --> 02:34:07.736 incorporated, how you should have your 02:34:07.760 --> 02:34:09.976 own code of conduct. You know, you 02:34:10.000 --> 02:34:11.415 yourselves deal with your community 02:34:11.439 --> 02:34:14.056 complaints. But I also wanted an avenue 02:34:14.080 --> 02:34:17.080 available for you as the 13 counselors 02:34:17.439 --> 02:34:19.096 to be able to come forward to the 02:34:19.120 --> 02:34:20.856 organization 02:34:20.880 --> 02:34:23.880 to be able to bring forward a concern 02:34:24.080 --> 02:34:26.856 should you experience an event or be 02:34:26.880 --> 02:34:29.880 spoken to inappropriately. given that 02:34:29.920 --> 02:34:32.920 you know your workplace is your role and 02:34:33.200 --> 02:34:35.415 we've seen that pretty much through what 02:34:35.439 --> 02:34:38.375 safe work is saying. So I wanted you as 02:34:38.399 --> 02:34:40.375 a independent counselors to be able to 02:34:40.399 --> 02:34:42.375 bring forward to the organization a 02:34:42.399 --> 02:34:45.176 concern and that you know also council 02:34:45.200 --> 02:34:47.096 staff who might be in attendance at such 02:34:47.120 --> 02:34:48.856 a forum also to be able to bring forward 02:34:48.880 --> 02:34:51.880 that concern. My concern um just with if 02:34:52.560 --> 02:34:55.415 you ultimately then become the decision 02:34:55.439 --> 02:34:58.439 makers on accreditation. I think that I 02:34:58.479 --> 02:35:01.479 I do have a concern in relation to that. 02:35:02.160 --> 02:35:04.696 So I mean if you if you we've seen votes 02:35:04.720 --> 02:35:06.856 in here before in relation to CCBs and 02:35:06.880 --> 02:35:09.880 whether they should be disbanded or not. 02:35:11.120 --> 02:35:13.415 my concern would be that if we and I 02:35:13.439 --> 02:35:15.656 I agree and concur with what councelor 02:35:15.680 --> 02:35:17.976 Tribe said in terms of you know a 02:35:18.000 --> 02:35:20.936 governance governance staff with the CEO 02:35:20.960 --> 02:35:23.176 assessing the situation but I I just 02:35:23.200 --> 02:35:26.200 would flag that you know it it would add 02:35:27.520 --> 02:35:29.176 to an extra complexity which I'm not 02:35:29.200 --> 02:35:32.200 quite sure would be the outcome that 02:35:33.120 --> 02:35:36.120 we'd like to see. 02:35:37.040 --> 02:35:40.040 Right. So, I'm just mindful that the 02:35:40.880 --> 02:35:42.936 committee of the whole the 15 minutes is 02:35:42.960 --> 02:35:45.960 up um and that we need to go back into 02:35:46.399 --> 02:35:48.696 um unless there's an extension to go 02:35:48.720 --> 02:35:51.256 back into the debating of it. I will 02:35:51.280 --> 02:35:52.856 point out that we still have a lot of 02:35:52.880 --> 02:35:55.880 business to get to. Um so, the longer 02:35:56.800 --> 02:35:59.656 this if we go past 10:00, we'll be back 02:35:59.680 --> 02:36:01.736 here tomorrow night. 02:36:01.760 --> 02:36:03.096 All right? Because we've got to get 02:36:03.120 --> 02:36:06.120 through the business paper. So, um, I'm 02:36:06.560 --> 02:36:08.455 up to the councilors to decide what they 02:36:08.479 --> 02:36:09.896 want to do. Do you want to continue in 02:36:09.920 --> 02:36:11.256 the committee of the whole or do you 02:36:11.280 --> 02:36:13.415 want to move back into formal council 02:36:13.439 --> 02:36:16.439 meeting? 02:36:19.520 --> 02:36:21.576 So, councelor Proud wants I'll take a 02:36:21.600 --> 02:36:23.576 vote on it. Councelor Tribe, oh, sorry, 02:36:23.600 --> 02:36:26.600 councelor Kemp. 02:36:28.880 --> 02:36:30.936 So we just need to make the decision if 02:36:30.960 --> 02:36:32.136 we're going to stay in the committee of 02:36:32.160 --> 02:36:33.335 the whole or we're going to move back 02:36:33.359 --> 02:36:36.359 into the formal council meeting. So 02:36:36.479 --> 02:36:37.976 councelor proud for 02:36:38.000 --> 02:36:40.295 propose an amendment recommendation 02:36:40.319 --> 02:36:42.856 number five that's all. Can I do that in 02:36:42.880 --> 02:36:44.455 a normal council meeting or 02:36:44.479 --> 02:36:45.896 so we will go back into the formal 02:36:45.920 --> 02:36:47.496 council meeting after I take a vote if 02:36:47.520 --> 02:36:49.576 that's what the council wants to do. So 02:36:49.600 --> 02:36:51.415 council proudoot you're moving that we 02:36:51.439 --> 02:36:53.576 go back into council 02:36:53.600 --> 02:36:56.375 seconded by councelor Clancy. Anybody 02:36:56.399 --> 02:36:57.976 wishing to vote that we don't go back 02:36:58.000 --> 02:37:01.000 into formal council. So councelor tribe. 02:37:01.280 --> 02:37:04.280 So councelor Kian councelor Boyd balance 02:37:04.640 --> 02:37:06.696 vote to move back into formal council. 02:37:06.720 --> 02:37:08.936 So um that's been carried. So we'll go 02:37:08.960 --> 02:37:11.960 back into formal council. So councelor 02:37:12.160 --> 02:37:15.160 Tribe have you got a recommendation? 02:37:15.600 --> 02:37:18.600 yes I'm happy with what's been 02:37:19.840 --> 02:37:22.840 sent to minutes and is on the screen 02:37:23.120 --> 02:37:25.576 from councelor Boyd. The only inclusion 02:37:25.600 --> 02:37:28.600 I would add is as I mentioned part seven 02:37:29.600 --> 02:37:32.600 that we change that wording to CEO in 02:37:32.960 --> 02:37:35.960 conjunction with governance andor risk 02:37:36.640 --> 02:37:39.640 staff. but the rest I am very 02:37:41.439 --> 02:37:42.936 happy with and I think covers off on the 02:37:42.960 --> 02:37:44.776 the points that I raised. So I would 02:37:44.800 --> 02:37:47.656 formally move those changes. 02:37:47.680 --> 02:37:49.576 All right. So I think that we need to go 02:37:49.600 --> 02:37:52.600 through these one by one. So and if I 02:37:52.880 --> 02:37:54.455 can just get an indication from 02:37:54.479 --> 02:37:57.479 counselors. Right. So um point A section 02:37:58.640 --> 02:38:01.640 three um in relation to political 02:38:02.319 --> 02:38:05.319 parties. Is there any objection to that? 02:38:07.600 --> 02:38:10.136 Objection to it. I'm just getting a 02:38:10.160 --> 02:38:12.056 feel. I'm not asking for a vote on the 02:38:12.080 --> 02:38:15.080 council yet. 02:38:15.439 --> 02:38:18.439 Right. So that's fine. Rest is fine. in 02:38:18.720 --> 02:38:20.936 relation to the CEO be responsible for 02:38:20.960 --> 02:38:23.176 accreditation B in conjunction with 02:38:23.200 --> 02:38:25.576 governance. We're all happy with that. 02:38:25.600 --> 02:38:28.600 Yep. se sorry no 02:38:31.359 --> 02:38:34.359 sorry. 02:38:38.800 --> 02:38:41.800 So I'm just asking for a feel who is in 02:38:42.319 --> 02:38:44.295 favor all of this because it's an 02:38:44.319 --> 02:38:47.319 important way forward. Yeah. So point B, 02:38:48.160 --> 02:38:50.375 section seven, the CEO be responsible 02:38:50.399 --> 02:38:52.536 for the accredititation process in 02:38:52.560 --> 02:38:54.536 conjunction with the governance of 02:38:54.560 --> 02:38:56.375 council. 02:38:56.399 --> 02:38:59.399 Right. Section C, if I can just get you 02:38:59.760 --> 02:39:02.760 to move it up. Thank you. Is in section 02:39:03.520 --> 02:39:06.520 10.1, increase the annual grant to 02:39:06.880 --> 02:39:08.375 $1,000. 02:39:08.399 --> 02:39:11.096 Um thousand recognizes the true costs, 02:39:11.120 --> 02:39:14.120 etc. Can we use the words annual grant 02:39:14.560 --> 02:39:17.176 up to 02:39:17.200 --> 02:39:18.536 because not everybody's going to want 02:39:18.560 --> 02:39:21.335 $1,000. So, are we happy with moving 02:39:21.359 --> 02:39:22.856 that? 02:39:22.880 --> 02:39:24.455 You know, we had the debate earlier 02:39:24.479 --> 02:39:27.479 about the $8,000. 02:39:28.160 --> 02:39:30.616 So, just leave it at a,000 and delete 02:39:30.640 --> 02:39:32.295 the rest of it. 02:39:32.319 --> 02:39:35.319 Right. So, up to $1,000. 02:39:35.840 --> 02:39:38.840 Yep. So, if you add the word up, 02:39:38.880 --> 02:39:41.880 right? Section 11.1 in last sentence. 02:39:42.399 --> 02:39:43.976 accreditation may be withdrawn 02:39:44.000 --> 02:39:46.216 permanently following the third 02:39:46.240 --> 02:39:49.096 substantial complaint by a decision of 02:39:49.120 --> 02:39:52.120 council. So the CEO has indicated that 02:39:52.720 --> 02:39:54.936 that should not come back to council and 02:39:54.960 --> 02:39:57.960 we have had previously where people CCB 02:39:58.800 --> 02:40:00.856 should have been dissolved and they 02:40:00.880 --> 02:40:03.880 weren't on the floor of council. Um, so 02:40:04.000 --> 02:40:06.536 would you be happy if we put that third 02:40:06.560 --> 02:40:09.560 substantial complaint by the CEO and the 02:40:10.319 --> 02:40:12.616 governance team? 02:40:12.640 --> 02:40:15.256 I'm happy with that. Everybody else, is 02:40:15.280 --> 02:40:17.576 there any other um people against the 02:40:17.600 --> 02:40:20.600 CEO and the governance team? 02:40:21.200 --> 02:40:23.256 CEO, 02:40:23.280 --> 02:40:26.280 right? So if we can just change that to 02:40:26.640 --> 02:40:29.176 the CEO and the governance team. 02:40:29.200 --> 02:40:31.736 So we're putting it 02:40:31.760 --> 02:40:34.760 I'm trying to get a point where we the 02:40:36.240 --> 02:40:38.696 majority agree and then we will discuss 02:40:38.720 --> 02:40:41.576 it and debate it. All right. So you can 02:40:41.600 --> 02:40:43.496 move an amendment in that discussion 02:40:43.520 --> 02:40:45.976 group. Um we'll all be coming back 02:40:46.000 --> 02:40:49.000 tomorrow. Um so also in section 11.1 02:40:50.399 --> 02:40:52.136 would suggest suspension should be 02:40:52.160 --> 02:40:55.160 defined length and so um are you happy 02:40:55.200 --> 02:40:57.335 with that CEO? 02:40:57.359 --> 02:40:59.415 Yeah, again the paper is very clear in 02:40:59.439 --> 02:41:01.736 relation to just accreditation would so 02:41:01.760 --> 02:41:03.176 suspension would last to the end of the 02:41:03.200 --> 02:41:05.096 financial year and then application for 02:41:05.120 --> 02:41:06.455 accreditation would happen at that 02:41:06.479 --> 02:41:07.496 point. 02:41:07.520 --> 02:41:10.520 So I mean I you know to that end I mean 02:41:10.960 --> 02:41:12.136 I'm trying to reduce the amount of 02:41:12.160 --> 02:41:13.496 administration the council has to 02:41:13.520 --> 02:41:15.415 oversee in relation to this. 02:41:15.439 --> 02:41:15.816 Yeah. 02:41:15.840 --> 02:41:18.375 So if if they're suspended it's till the 02:41:18.399 --> 02:41:20.455 end of the financial year and then they 02:41:20.479 --> 02:41:21.976 can apply for accreditation again at 02:41:22.000 --> 02:41:23.896 that point. 02:41:23.920 --> 02:41:26.920 So 02:41:29.520 --> 02:41:29.736 yeah, 02:41:29.760 --> 02:41:30.856 that's what we're saying. 02:41:30.880 --> 02:41:32.536 So everyone can apply for accreditation 02:41:32.560 --> 02:41:34.455 each year 02:41:34.479 --> 02:41:36.776 and suspension would last to the end of 02:41:36.800 --> 02:41:38.936 that financial year. 02:41:38.960 --> 02:41:41.016 So you're happy for it to remain till 02:41:41.040 --> 02:41:44.040 the end of the financial year 02:41:45.120 --> 02:41:48.120 and then they can reapply. All right. So 02:41:48.479 --> 02:41:51.016 suspension and withdrawal. Accreditation 02:41:51.040 --> 02:41:53.576 may be suspended withdraw engage in the 02:41:53.600 --> 02:41:55.496 conduct that causes physical harm 02:41:55.520 --> 02:41:57.816 elected council officials or staff 02:41:57.840 --> 02:42:00.840 become non-compliant with incorporation 02:42:02.080 --> 02:42:04.136 um engages in political activity or 02:42:04.160 --> 02:42:07.160 breaches of party polit. 02:42:17.359 --> 02:42:20.136 So I have a different opinion of this. 02:42:20.160 --> 02:42:23.160 If they call they will call CCB meetings 02:42:23.520 --> 02:42:26.520 monthly or bimonthly whatever they do as 02:42:26.560 --> 02:42:28.455 they do now. If they want to have a 02:42:28.479 --> 02:42:29.976 political forum under their 02:42:30.000 --> 02:42:32.776 incorporation they can do that but it's 02:42:32.800 --> 02:42:35.016 just not the accredited forum that's 02:42:35.040 --> 02:42:36.936 calling it and they have to make that 02:42:36.960 --> 02:42:39.656 clear. Councelor Proudfoot will know the 02:42:39.680 --> 02:42:42.680 VR. So the VR used to have two meetings. 02:42:44.240 --> 02:42:46.216 remember they used to have a meeting of 02:42:46.240 --> 02:42:49.240 the VWR incorporated body and then they 02:42:49.680 --> 02:42:52.216 used to have a meeting of the CCB and 02:42:52.240 --> 02:42:54.455 they had different votes for each one. 02:42:54.479 --> 02:42:56.776 So they need to determine who they 02:42:56.800 --> 02:42:59.800 having a meeting for and what for. 02:43:01.200 --> 02:43:04.200 So um 02:43:04.640 --> 02:43:07.496 so um 02:43:07.520 --> 02:43:09.496 I'm happy to leave engaged in political 02:43:09.520 --> 02:43:11.656 activity or breaches but you're tying 02:43:11.680 --> 02:43:13.656 them up but that's fine. Can I sorry 02:43:13.680 --> 02:43:15.736 just to interrupt again 02:43:15.760 --> 02:43:17.496 the the ability to police this and 02:43:17.520 --> 02:43:20.056 resource this is a is it a challenge. 02:43:20.080 --> 02:43:21.496 You're either incorporated or you're 02:43:21.520 --> 02:43:22.536 not. 02:43:22.560 --> 02:43:25.560 Um and you know if 02:43:26.319 --> 02:43:28.375 it's up to them as to how they behave as 02:43:28.399 --> 02:43:30.136 independent incorporated bodies to meet 02:43:30.160 --> 02:43:32.455 their fair trading requirements. I'd be 02:43:32.479 --> 02:43:35.256 reluctant for us as council to be 02:43:35.280 --> 02:43:37.176 providing an additional layer in terms 02:43:37.200 --> 02:43:40.056 of assessing that. I the the checklist 02:43:40.080 --> 02:43:43.080 is quite simple. 02:43:43.359 --> 02:43:46.359 by their trade 02:43:46.479 --> 02:43:49.479 very soon and they will be off. 02:43:51.840 --> 02:43:54.216 Yeah. So if they become uninccorporated 02:43:54.240 --> 02:43:55.736 during the course of a year they'll 02:43:55.760 --> 02:43:57.656 they'll immediately be they'll be losing 02:43:57.680 --> 02:44:00.680 their accreditation. 02:44:01.920 --> 02:44:04.920 So we'll then move down to part section 02:44:06.880 --> 02:44:09.880 14. delete the final dot point and 02:44:10.560 --> 02:44:12.776 replace it with maintains party 02:44:12.800 --> 02:44:15.255 political neutrality. 02:44:15.279 --> 02:44:17.176 All right. So, it's just a play on 02:44:17.200 --> 02:44:20.200 words. Um I'd add the new section 15. 02:44:21.040 --> 02:44:22.856 Don't have a problem with that either. 02:44:22.880 --> 02:44:25.096 Um I'm just mindful that you've written 02:44:25.120 --> 02:44:27.816 the 30th of May 28 whether that should 02:44:27.840 --> 02:44:30.840 be end of financial year 28. Noation 02:44:33.040 --> 02:44:35.335 on the 30th of May and they apply for it 02:44:35.359 --> 02:44:38.359 between 30 May and 1st of June. So would 02:44:39.439 --> 02:44:42.216 we want to review it before they have to 02:44:42.240 --> 02:44:44.536 reapply for the second cycle of 02:44:44.560 --> 02:44:46.776 Yeah, that that that makes sense because 02:44:46.800 --> 02:44:48.455 the aim would be for them to apply for 02:44:48.479 --> 02:44:50.696 the grant during the month of May 02:44:50.720 --> 02:44:53.096 and then you know accredited for the 02:44:53.120 --> 02:44:54.136 first of July 02:44:54.160 --> 02:44:55.576 rules if we modify them. 02:44:55.600 --> 02:44:56.696 Yep. That's 02:44:56.720 --> 02:44:59.720 Yep. So is that 28 or 27? 02:45:01.760 --> 02:45:04.760 28. 28. So they operate for 12 months. 02:45:05.200 --> 02:45:08.056 Yep. All right. So now we can go into 02:45:08.080 --> 02:45:10.295 debate. So I'll take speakers for and 02:45:10.319 --> 02:45:12.375 against and amendments etc. Council 02:45:12.399 --> 02:45:13.096 Boyd, 02:45:13.120 --> 02:45:16.120 I I think we still should delete 02:45:17.840 --> 02:45:20.616 irrespective of your views on how or 02:45:20.640 --> 02:45:23.576 views expressed on how 02:45:23.600 --> 02:45:26.600 the how incorporated bodies act. I think 02:45:28.080 --> 02:45:31.080 we should still delete the bit about not 02:45:31.760 --> 02:45:34.760 holding um election forums because I 02:45:35.040 --> 02:45:37.016 think that's quite 02:45:37.040 --> 02:45:38.616 um 02:45:38.640 --> 02:45:41.016 it's actually the traditional role 02:45:41.040 --> 02:45:43.816 they've had and to say they can no 02:45:43.840 --> 02:45:46.840 longer do this under this framework is 02:45:47.120 --> 02:45:50.120 inflammator a little inflammatory. 02:45:52.000 --> 02:45:54.216 I mean, it may be that they can conduct 02:45:54.240 --> 02:45:57.240 those forums whether they're ACFs or 02:45:57.600 --> 02:46:00.216 not, or because they're incorporated, 02:46:00.240 --> 02:46:01.816 they're entitled to do whatever they 02:46:01.840 --> 02:46:04.776 like. But I think by putting that in, 02:46:04.800 --> 02:46:07.255 it's saying that if you run these 02:46:07.279 --> 02:46:09.415 things, you are no longer accredited or 02:46:09.439 --> 02:46:11.816 you will be suspended. 02:46:11.840 --> 02:46:14.056 That's the implication of including that 02:46:14.080 --> 02:46:16.216 statement, I believe. 02:46:16.240 --> 02:46:18.295 Yeah. Again, I mean, one of the reasons 02:46:18.319 --> 02:46:20.455 that we put this in there was so that 02:46:20.479 --> 02:46:22.136 the principles behind what these 02:46:22.160 --> 02:46:23.896 accredited bodies were to do was to 02:46:23.920 --> 02:46:26.056 advise council on local community 02:46:26.080 --> 02:46:29.080 issues. Um, and you know, again, 02:46:31.040 --> 02:46:31.976 , 02:46:32.000 --> 02:46:33.896 well, I think we should leave that open. 02:46:33.920 --> 02:46:35.335 Yeah. But I mean you you go to your 02:46:35.359 --> 02:46:37.496 first point that you've referred to in 02:46:37.520 --> 02:46:40.455 terms of political neutrality 02:46:40.479 --> 02:46:42.536 and you know I've seen plenty of these 02:46:42.560 --> 02:46:44.856 forums over the years and seen 02:46:44.880 --> 02:46:47.880 candidates who Shoalhaven't been included all 02:46:47.920 --> 02:46:49.576 of these types of things and it can 02:46:49.600 --> 02:46:49.976 cause 02:46:50.000 --> 02:46:51.736 or refuse or not responded to an 02:46:51.760 --> 02:46:53.016 invitation. 02:46:53.040 --> 02:46:54.056 Well that too. 02:46:54.080 --> 02:46:57.080 Yeah. But again, the the principle and 02:46:57.439 --> 02:46:59.335 the argument that was had about these 02:46:59.359 --> 02:47:01.335 organizations and their association with 02:47:01.359 --> 02:47:03.576 council came back to the key principle 02:47:03.600 --> 02:47:05.096 that they were able to go out to the 02:47:05.120 --> 02:47:07.255 wider community and say that we have 02:47:07.279 --> 02:47:09.415 this special bond with the council to 02:47:09.439 --> 02:47:12.439 deal with council issues and you know if 02:47:12.960 --> 02:47:14.936 they're holding state and federal and 02:47:14.960 --> 02:47:17.960 for that matter council election forums 02:47:18.000 --> 02:47:21.000 that then ties into this issue around 02:47:21.120 --> 02:47:23.255 politics. So that's why 02:47:23.279 --> 02:47:23.976 I don't believe 02:47:24.000 --> 02:47:26.856 Yeah. I mean that's why I we made that 02:47:26.880 --> 02:47:29.880 recommendation in the in the report. 02:47:29.920 --> 02:47:32.920 Well I think it should be deleted. 02:47:33.920 --> 02:47:35.576 So councelor tribe you've moved this. 02:47:35.600 --> 02:47:37.816 I'm having to second it. So councelor 02:47:37.840 --> 02:47:40.840 Kian. 02:47:41.439 --> 02:47:44.056 Thank you madam mayor. Um I want to 02:47:44.080 --> 02:47:46.536 speak about the um inclusion of the 02:47:46.560 --> 02:47:48.616 political forums too because the issue 02:47:48.640 --> 02:47:51.255 is not whether people can speak about 02:47:51.279 --> 02:47:53.176 politics and invite pe the community 02:47:53.200 --> 02:47:55.016 together to talk about politics. The 02:47:55.040 --> 02:47:58.040 issue is that they're inclusive. So, so 02:47:58.080 --> 02:48:00.056 we would if we want to put it in a 02:48:00.080 --> 02:48:01.736 statement about running political 02:48:01.760 --> 02:48:03.896 forums, we would say that on the basis 02:48:03.920 --> 02:48:06.136 that all 02:48:06.160 --> 02:48:09.096 candidates, parties are invited, 02:48:09.120 --> 02:48:12.120 welcomed and allowed to speak. Um, if we 02:48:12.240 --> 02:48:14.616 say you have to do that as part of your 02:48:14.640 --> 02:48:16.776 incorporated association, we're blurring 02:48:16.800 --> 02:48:19.800 and as councelor Boyd said, sort of 02:48:21.200 --> 02:48:23.656 putting mud in the water. I think if we 02:48:23.680 --> 02:48:26.616 said that they can only run political 02:48:26.640 --> 02:48:29.640 forums if they are um nonpartisan and if 02:48:31.520 --> 02:48:34.520 all sides are invited and welcomed and 02:48:34.560 --> 02:48:36.936 allowed to speak. That's what political 02:48:36.960 --> 02:48:39.176 neutrality is about. Not not talking 02:48:39.200 --> 02:48:41.096 about politics or pretending what you're 02:48:41.120 --> 02:48:43.496 saying isn't political. Um, on the 02:48:43.520 --> 02:48:46.455 matter of the $1,000, just while I'm on 02:48:46.479 --> 02:48:49.479 my feet, um, Madame Mayor, in relation 02:48:49.680 --> 02:48:51.736 to what you said, I assume that we would 02:48:51.760 --> 02:48:53.896 not be covering their insurance 02:48:53.920 --> 02:48:56.536 regardless of what it costs, but that we 02:48:56.560 --> 02:48:59.560 they have a grant and so they'd have to 02:48:59.600 --> 02:49:02.136 give us a quote and the up to a,000 sort 02:49:02.160 --> 02:49:03.576 of covers it a bit, but I don't think 02:49:03.600 --> 02:49:05.976 we're going to get hit by big um 02:49:06.000 --> 02:49:08.136 insurance policies and if people are 02:49:08.160 --> 02:49:09.736 doing fireworks, then they won't be 02:49:09.760 --> 02:49:11.335 cover it'll they'll have to cover it 02:49:11.359 --> 02:49:13.096 themselves. That's right. That's 02:49:13.120 --> 02:49:14.295 because they will get the insurance, 02:49:14.319 --> 02:49:15.816 won't they? We won't be buying it for 02:49:15.840 --> 02:49:16.295 them. 02:49:16.319 --> 02:49:17.656 No. So, you know, 02:49:17.680 --> 02:49:19.255 so that's why I suggested the midpoint 02:49:19.279 --> 02:49:22.216 of the average like so, you know, you 02:49:22.240 --> 02:49:24.375 can shop around for 02:49:24.399 --> 02:49:26.776 public liability insurance for for a 02:49:26.800 --> 02:49:28.295 publicly 02:49:28.319 --> 02:49:31.176 like an administrative body, but you do 02:49:31.200 --> 02:49:32.696 start to climb up if you get into that 02:49:32.720 --> 02:49:35.096 other realm in terms liability insurance 02:49:35.120 --> 02:49:37.096 is going to cost you between my 02:49:37.120 --> 02:49:38.856 understanding from the people I spoke to 02:49:38.880 --> 02:49:41.816 was mostly between 4 and 600. if it's 02:49:41.840 --> 02:49:43.576 going to be 600. There are other 02:49:43.600 --> 02:49:45.415 administrative costs that they could do 02:49:45.439 --> 02:49:47.016 with help with I think it's really great 02:49:47.040 --> 02:49:48.056 that we're saying they'll get the 02:49:48.080 --> 02:49:50.136 council buildings for free because I 02:49:50.160 --> 02:49:51.816 think it's a bit of an absurdity that we 02:49:51.840 --> 02:49:54.375 charge them for those. But um up to 02:49:54.399 --> 02:49:57.255 $1,000 allows us where you know where 02:49:57.279 --> 02:49:59.335 they've got other costs that they can we 02:49:59.359 --> 02:50:02.136 can cover those if it's reasonable. 02:50:02.160 --> 02:50:02.936 Okay. 02:50:02.960 --> 02:50:05.960 Thank you. Um so councelor Kemp. 02:50:07.359 --> 02:50:09.896 Thank you Madame Mayor. Um, look, is it 02:50:09.920 --> 02:50:12.455 possible that I can put a number five 02:50:12.479 --> 02:50:15.415 under recommendation that we can have a 02:50:15.439 --> 02:50:18.439 choice here to accept the paper as 02:50:18.880 --> 02:50:21.880 written or with the amendments? 02:50:24.000 --> 02:50:25.335 I'm happy with the way that it's 02:50:25.359 --> 02:50:26.136 written. 02:50:26.160 --> 02:50:28.455 So, that's a foreshadowed 02:50:28.479 --> 02:50:29.816 Yes, foreshadow it is. 02:50:29.840 --> 02:50:31.096 Recommendation. 02:50:31.120 --> 02:50:33.255 So, if this doesn't get up, we'll go to 02:50:33.279 --> 02:50:35.415 the for shadow recommendation which is 02:50:35.439 --> 02:50:36.696 as printed in the paper 02:50:36.720 --> 02:50:39.335 as printed. Um I do want to just say 02:50:39.359 --> 02:50:42.359 that I feel like we again starting to 02:50:42.399 --> 02:50:45.096 manage the CCBs 02:50:45.120 --> 02:50:47.976 um and extra staff work and with 02:50:48.000 --> 02:50:51.000 governance and the CEO there's 02:50:51.840 --> 02:50:54.840 extra costs putting up 650 to like 02:50:56.399 --> 02:50:58.536 I I I'm struggling to understand where 02:50:58.560 --> 02:51:01.496 we're heading with this. 02:51:01.520 --> 02:51:04.520 So any other speakers? 02:51:05.439 --> 02:51:08.439 Ernie, if you've got a question. 02:51:09.600 --> 02:51:12.600 My my question is does it make a 02:51:13.200 --> 02:51:16.200 difference to the CEO? Um does it make a 02:51:16.640 --> 02:51:19.255 difference if we are only talking about 02:51:19.279 --> 02:51:22.279 suspensions being being coming to the 02:51:22.720 --> 02:51:25.720 council? Um so we're given that we'd be 02:51:25.840 --> 02:51:28.616 we'd be saying that there were um two 02:51:28.640 --> 02:51:31.415 substantiated complaints and if they 02:51:31.439 --> 02:51:33.176 came to the council does that make a 02:51:33.200 --> 02:51:36.056 difference um in regard to the 02:51:36.080 --> 02:51:37.816 responsibility 02:51:37.840 --> 02:51:40.295 and would a counselor who had made a 02:51:40.319 --> 02:51:43.319 complaint against ACF excuse 02:51:44.479 --> 02:51:46.455 themselves if they were the complainant 02:51:46.479 --> 02:51:49.096 from debating an issue? What's your view 02:51:49.120 --> 02:51:52.120 on that? again, I'm I'm I'm trying to 02:51:52.880 --> 02:51:54.776 keep it to the to the point that I made 02:51:54.800 --> 02:51:56.375 before, and that is is that I want 02:51:56.399 --> 02:51:58.936 people to be able to in a confidential 02:51:58.960 --> 02:52:00.616 way, be it staff or be it you as 02:52:00.640 --> 02:52:02.056 individual counselors, to be able to 02:52:02.080 --> 02:52:04.856 raise a specific concern directly with 02:52:04.880 --> 02:52:07.096 me as CEO and and to governance for that 02:52:07.120 --> 02:52:09.816 matter, to make a determination in 02:52:09.840 --> 02:52:12.776 relation to that. Um I agree that there 02:52:12.800 --> 02:52:14.856 should be a review process which has 02:52:14.880 --> 02:52:16.455 been cited as part of that and that 02:52:16.479 --> 02:52:18.056 would be the opportunity to be able to 02:52:18.080 --> 02:52:21.080 do that. But if if you were to say to 02:52:22.240 --> 02:52:24.136 me, right, we we need to make a decision 02:52:24.160 --> 02:52:25.656 about 02:52:25.680 --> 02:52:28.295 basically determining an 02:52:28.319 --> 02:52:31.255 accreditation or not and require of me 02:52:31.279 --> 02:52:33.656 to be able to produce evidence as to 02:52:33.680 --> 02:52:36.136 what that might be. I think I think 02:52:36.160 --> 02:52:37.255 you'd be 02:52:37.279 --> 02:52:40.279 as Yeah. Yeah. So if you or or a 02:52:41.520 --> 02:52:43.016 suspension 02:52:43.040 --> 02:52:45.576 Yeah. 02:52:45.600 --> 02:52:46.696 I think 02:52:46.720 --> 02:52:49.720 Yeah. But I again I 02:52:49.760 --> 02:52:52.136 one of the reasons that I wanted to keep 02:52:52.160 --> 02:52:55.160 the counselors away from that is so that 02:52:55.920 --> 02:52:58.536 a no counselor feels that they're in a 02:52:58.560 --> 02:52:59.976 position in relation to it is should 02:53:00.000 --> 02:53:01.976 they bring a concern and it it be 02:53:02.000 --> 02:53:05.000 handled appropriately just as a code of 02:53:05.040 --> 02:53:07.816 conduct matter would be. So that's why I 02:53:07.840 --> 02:53:09.976 wanted to keep it at arms length from 02:53:10.000 --> 02:53:13.000 from you all as individuals. 02:53:13.439 --> 02:53:16.056 So, I'll go to Councelor Proudfoot and 02:53:16.080 --> 02:53:17.576 then I'll go back to write a reply. 02:53:17.600 --> 02:53:19.656 Councelor Proudfoot. 02:53:19.680 --> 02:53:21.496 Thanks, Madam Chair. 02:53:21.520 --> 02:53:24.520 I agree with the CEO regarding 02:53:25.520 --> 02:53:28.520 the potential to politicize meeting. 02:53:29.200 --> 02:53:30.856 02:53:30.880 --> 02:53:32.455 in my experience over a long period of 02:53:32.479 --> 02:53:35.479 time that many community groups CCBs 02:53:37.200 --> 02:53:40.200 now what they call ACF are very 02:53:40.399 --> 02:53:42.455 political and especially when it comes 02:53:42.479 --> 02:53:45.479 to planning matters they become quite 02:53:46.000 --> 02:53:48.295 emotive and then when a council is 02:53:48.319 --> 02:53:50.776 invited to speak then the councelor 02:53:50.800 --> 02:53:53.415 often takes aside 02:53:53.439 --> 02:53:56.439 or not and so the the it's almost 02:53:56.560 --> 02:53:59.560 impossible to stop the meetings being 02:53:59.920 --> 02:54:02.920 politicized almost impossible 02:54:03.920 --> 02:54:06.856 and so I I don't know why you'd invite 02:54:06.880 --> 02:54:09.880 want to invite a these were first set up 02:54:10.160 --> 02:54:13.160 to allow the community to get together 02:54:14.319 --> 02:54:17.176 and discuss issues council would 02:54:17.200 --> 02:54:18.776 correspond they they'd read out the 02:54:18.800 --> 02:54:21.176 correspondence they often there were 02:54:21.200 --> 02:54:23.096 contentious DAs they'd have a discussion 02:54:23.120 --> 02:54:25.576 in the community they'd come back in the 02:54:25.600 --> 02:54:26.936 following month and see where that 02:54:26.960 --> 02:54:28.375 discussion took them and from time to 02:54:28.399 --> 02:54:30.295 time and it was very valuable. They'd 02:54:30.319 --> 02:54:32.295 invite council staff along 02:54:32.319 --> 02:54:33.896 who was straight down the middle. They 02:54:33.920 --> 02:54:36.455 didn't politicize it either and they'd 02:54:36.479 --> 02:54:38.136 explain the situation. They'd explain 02:54:38.160 --> 02:54:41.160 where certain DA is at council, what are 02:54:41.600 --> 02:54:43.896 the what's the process, 02:54:43.920 --> 02:54:45.656 when will it be decided, what's the 02:54:45.680 --> 02:54:48.680 likelihood of it being decided in a a 02:54:48.800 --> 02:54:50.936 shorter period of time than some of them 02:54:50.960 --> 02:54:53.960 are decided in. And and they function 02:54:54.560 --> 02:54:56.936 pretty well. But the moment a counselor 02:54:56.960 --> 02:54:59.960 stands up in a forum then then 02:55:01.359 --> 02:55:03.736 they are political. 02:55:03.760 --> 02:55:06.136 You ask a politician to speak of course 02:55:06.160 --> 02:55:08.216 they're going to be political. 02:55:08.240 --> 02:55:10.056 I I find that a danger. These were set 02:55:10.080 --> 02:55:11.896 up for the people. This was set up for 02:55:11.920 --> 02:55:14.455 the community. And so you that's fine 02:55:14.479 --> 02:55:16.696 for councils to go along. I was at a 02:55:16.720 --> 02:55:18.776 meeting not so long ago down at St. 02:55:18.800 --> 02:55:21.800 George's Basin and there was a and this 02:55:21.840 --> 02:55:23.576 is political. I'll make a statement. 02:55:23.600 --> 02:55:25.576 there's a ridiculous proposal there to 02:55:25.600 --> 02:55:27.576 build the the biggest building in the 02:55:27.600 --> 02:55:30.295 Shell Shoalhaven. And so the the place was 02:55:30.319 --> 02:55:32.856 packed and I didn't say I didn't say a 02:55:32.880 --> 02:55:35.096 word. I just listened to people. But 02:55:35.120 --> 02:55:37.176 they did mention that I was there taking 02:55:37.200 --> 02:55:40.136 taking a note of what they were saying. 02:55:40.160 --> 02:55:41.656 Now if I have got up I'd have been 02:55:41.680 --> 02:55:43.896 political. I'd just bagged it out and 02:55:43.920 --> 02:55:45.896 said it's crazy. What what what are you 02:55:45.920 --> 02:55:47.736 doing coming to our community putting up 02:55:47.760 --> 02:55:50.056 such a ridiculous proposal? 02:55:50.080 --> 02:55:52.536 So, I'm not convinced that asking 02:55:52.560 --> 02:55:55.415 councils to speak at these meetings is a 02:55:55.439 --> 02:55:58.439 good idea. I don't It's the community's 02:55:58.640 --> 02:56:00.536 forum. It's their meeting. They own the 02:56:00.560 --> 02:56:03.560 meeting. And so, I support the CEO in 02:56:04.000 --> 02:56:06.536 his endeavors to make sure that they're 02:56:06.560 --> 02:56:08.375 as non-political as you possibly can get 02:56:08.399 --> 02:56:11.399 them and and allow the people to get 02:56:12.720 --> 02:56:14.856 out of those meetings what what they 02:56:14.880 --> 02:56:16.936 would like to get out of it and then 02:56:16.960 --> 02:56:19.255 follow up with council staff. That's 02:56:19.279 --> 02:56:21.016 that's a valuable thing to do. The 02:56:21.040 --> 02:56:22.696 council's professional staff will supply 02:56:22.720 --> 02:56:24.136 the answer. 02:56:24.160 --> 02:56:27.160 So, are you proposing an amendment? 02:56:28.560 --> 02:56:31.255 Well, 02:56:31.279 --> 02:56:34.279 I sort of rambled on a bit there, but 02:56:34.960 --> 02:56:37.960 yeah. Well, the part where 02:56:40.880 --> 02:56:43.415 is the CO responsible accreditation with 02:56:43.439 --> 02:56:44.856 governance? Yeah, that's fine. 02:56:44.880 --> 02:56:47.016 Increasing. 02:56:47.040 --> 02:56:49.415 What was the point that where you were 02:56:49.439 --> 02:56:52.439 talking about u 02:56:54.640 --> 02:56:56.936 was it part 02:56:56.960 --> 02:56:58.455 yeah party party party political 02:56:58.479 --> 02:57:01.335 neutrality that sort of stuff 02:57:01.359 --> 02:57:01.576 I 02:57:01.600 --> 02:57:03.176 I was looking at the I was looking at 02:57:03.200 --> 02:57:04.455 the checklist 02:57:04.479 --> 02:57:06.056 invites all council to attend and speak 02:57:06.080 --> 02:57:09.080 at meetings I don't agree with that I I 02:57:10.080 --> 02:57:12.216 think must not have three complaints 02:57:12.240 --> 02:57:14.295 against Well I don't know how you're 02:57:14.319 --> 02:57:16.856 going to work that one out you mean must 02:57:16.880 --> 02:57:19.736 not have three validated complaints or 02:57:19.760 --> 02:57:20.455 complaints. Yeah. 02:57:20.479 --> 02:57:21.896 Yeah. 02:57:21.920 --> 02:57:24.375 So if if if there's three complaints 02:57:24.399 --> 02:57:26.616 either from you as individual counselors 02:57:26.640 --> 02:57:29.415 or from a staff member who might be in 02:57:29.439 --> 02:57:31.255 attendance 02:57:31.279 --> 02:57:33.896 um you know that that is three 02:57:33.920 --> 02:57:36.375 substantiated complaints. 02:57:36.399 --> 02:57:38.056 Yeah. Substantiated complaints. Yeah. 02:57:38.080 --> 02:57:38.375 Yeah. 02:57:38.399 --> 02:57:41.255 That that needs to be written. But 02:57:41.279 --> 02:57:43.736 but my main thing is is the involvement 02:57:43.760 --> 02:57:46.056 of council in their meetings straight 02:57:46.080 --> 02:57:48.295 away politicize it. I don't want that at 02:57:48.319 --> 02:57:50.136 all. 02:57:50.160 --> 02:57:53.160 Go along listen up information. 02:57:53.200 --> 02:57:55.255 So you want to remove that the 02:57:55.279 --> 02:57:57.335 counselors all council must counselors 02:57:57.359 --> 02:57:59.415 must be invited to their meetings. 02:57:59.439 --> 02:58:00.616 Yeah. 02:58:00.640 --> 02:58:03.096 So I have council tribe you happy to 02:58:03.120 --> 02:58:05.176 support that because they don't get 02:58:05.200 --> 02:58:06.856 invited now so I don't know what the 02:58:06.880 --> 02:58:09.880 difference will be. Um, so council 02:58:10.640 --> 02:58:13.335 tribe, you don't support that amendment. 02:58:13.359 --> 02:58:15.896 All right. So I do. So councelor 02:58:15.920 --> 02:58:17.896 Proudfoot, are you moving that? 02:58:17.920 --> 02:58:19.096 I will, Madam Chair. 02:58:19.120 --> 02:58:20.856 And I'll second it. So we'll go to the 02:58:20.880 --> 02:58:22.616 amendment. I'm not going to have much 02:58:22.640 --> 02:58:25.640 discussion on the amendment. Um, I'll 02:58:25.680 --> 02:58:27.976 take a couple of speakers, two speakers 02:58:28.000 --> 02:58:30.056 for and two speakers against. Anybody 02:58:30.080 --> 02:58:33.080 wish to speak against the amendment? 02:58:33.279 --> 02:58:36.279 Councelor Killian. 02:58:36.399 --> 02:58:39.335 One of the one of the reasons these 02:58:39.359 --> 02:58:41.816 groups think that they have got a 02:58:41.840 --> 02:58:43.335 connection to council is because they 02:58:43.359 --> 02:58:44.856 get to talk to us and they get a chance 02:58:44.880 --> 02:58:47.496 to brief us and it is one of the most 02:58:47.520 --> 02:58:50.056 valuable ways to make a connection to 02:58:50.080 --> 02:58:51.576 the community. So we're suggesting that 02:58:51.600 --> 02:58:53.335 councilors not be invited to the 02:58:53.359 --> 02:58:55.576 meetings. I think that is a very 02:58:55.600 --> 02:58:57.656 negative thing and I'm sure it would be 02:58:57.680 --> 02:59:00.680 very badly received by the CCBs or the 02:59:00.800 --> 02:59:02.295 ACFs. 02:59:02.319 --> 02:59:03.816 Right. So I'll speak for the 02:59:03.840 --> 02:59:05.816 recommendation. I don't believe that all 02:59:05.840 --> 02:59:07.656 counselors get invited to them now and 02:59:07.680 --> 02:59:10.295 they Shoalhaven't been invited for um several 02:59:10.319 --> 02:59:12.856 years. Um and the policy of council 02:59:12.880 --> 02:59:14.375 changed. I'm pretty sure it was the last 02:59:14.399 --> 02:59:17.399 term of council in that um councilors 02:59:17.760 --> 02:59:19.415 weren't expected to go if they didn't 02:59:19.439 --> 02:59:21.576 want to go. Um and it was up to 02:59:21.600 --> 02:59:23.335 councilors to determine when those 02:59:23.359 --> 02:59:26.056 meetings were. So do I have another 02:59:26.080 --> 02:59:28.936 speaker against the amendment? Councelor 02:59:28.960 --> 02:59:31.960 Norris 02:59:32.240 --> 02:59:33.736 councelor who has been admitted from 02:59:33.760 --> 02:59:35.816 some of these meetings in my own ward. 02:59:35.840 --> 02:59:38.216 Um I really do relish the opportunity to 02:59:38.240 --> 02:59:40.536 be invited to hear what the committee 02:59:40.560 --> 02:59:42.616 has to say. So I would go along if they 02:59:42.640 --> 02:59:45.640 would invite me but I'm not invited. Why 02:59:45.680 --> 02:59:48.056 go? 02:59:48.080 --> 02:59:49.656 Council tribe. Do you want to write a 02:59:49.680 --> 02:59:52.680 reply on the amendment? 02:59:54.720 --> 02:59:56.216 Yes. I think I think it is really 02:59:56.240 --> 02:59:56.455 important. 02:59:56.479 --> 02:59:59.415 No, we're not to that point yet. Yes, 02:59:59.439 --> 03:00:00.856 I agree that it's very important that 03:00:00.880 --> 03:00:03.880 counselors are invited. we were it 03:00:04.319 --> 03:00:06.295 was on our calendars previously and 03:00:06.319 --> 03:00:08.375 there was an open invitation. I know 03:00:08.399 --> 03:00:10.056 that's been removed and now it's really 03:00:10.080 --> 03:00:11.976 difficult for us to know when they're on 03:00:12.000 --> 03:00:15.000 and be able to go. but for this to 03:00:15.359 --> 03:00:18.295 be a positive two-way communication 03:00:18.319 --> 03:00:19.976 then I think there does need to be that 03:00:20.000 --> 03:00:21.976 invitation. I just want to note as well 03:00:22.000 --> 03:00:24.375 that the word substantiated in front of 03:00:24.399 --> 03:00:26.295 complaints is not actually in the model. 03:00:26.319 --> 03:00:28.136 So if there's a view that it's supposed 03:00:28.160 --> 03:00:30.375 to be there, 03:00:30.399 --> 03:00:33.255 the these are changes that will be made. 03:00:33.279 --> 03:00:35.176 So we're not talking about that. So coun 03:00:35.200 --> 03:00:37.656 I'll put the the amendment to the 03:00:37.680 --> 03:00:39.896 councilors. Those counselors wishing to 03:00:39.920 --> 03:00:41.255 vote against the amendment. The 03:00:41.279 --> 03:00:43.016 councilors do not have to be invited. 03:00:43.040 --> 03:00:45.096 All councilors have to be invited. So 03:00:45.120 --> 03:00:47.496 it's councelor Norris, councelor Clancy, 03:00:47.520 --> 03:00:50.136 councelor Boyd, council Kian, council 03:00:50.160 --> 03:00:53.016 Chris, councelor Tribe, councelor Dunn 03:00:53.040 --> 03:00:56.040 and councelor Dunn. the Bose voting 03:00:56.720 --> 03:00:59.335 um for the amendment. So that's 03:00:59.359 --> 03:01:01.335 councelor Casmary, councelor Wilkins, 03:01:01.359 --> 03:01:03.496 councelor proudfoot, councelor Steele, 03:01:03.520 --> 03:01:05.576 councelor Kemp, and councelor white. 03:01:05.600 --> 03:01:07.736 What do I have? 03:01:07.760 --> 03:01:10.760 Um we have five against and 03:01:12.800 --> 03:01:15.800 seven. 1 2 3 four five six seven eight 03:01:16.399 --> 03:01:17.816 four 03:01:17.840 --> 03:01:20.056 for the amendment. Are you sure it's not 03:01:20.080 --> 03:01:22.776 the other way around? 03:01:22.800 --> 03:01:24.536 Sorry, sir. Can I just get clarity on 03:01:24.560 --> 03:01:24.936 that? 03:01:24.960 --> 03:01:27.960 Clarity on um the 03:01:31.920 --> 03:01:33.335 quick one. I'd like to make sure we have 03:01:33.359 --> 03:01:36.359 it correctly recorded. So if if I may 03:01:36.720 --> 03:01:38.295 assist by reading out the votes that we 03:01:38.319 --> 03:01:39.656 have recorded at the moment and just 03:01:39.680 --> 03:01:42.680 confirm with the council um for the 03:01:42.720 --> 03:01:45.720 amendment um currently um that was 03:01:46.240 --> 03:01:47.656 before the council moved by councelor 03:01:47.680 --> 03:01:50.375 Proudport and seconded by Mayor White um 03:01:50.399 --> 03:01:52.216 was Mayor Patricia White, councelor 03:01:52.240 --> 03:01:55.240 Wilkins, councelor Cricadis, councelor 03:01:55.359 --> 03:01:57.736 Proudport, councelor Kasmiri, councelor 03:01:57.760 --> 03:02:00.056 Clancy, councelor Steele and councelor 03:02:00.080 --> 03:02:03.080 Kemp and voting against councelor Kian 03:02:03.279 --> 03:02:06.279 Boyd tribe Norris and councelor D. 03:02:06.560 --> 03:02:08.295 I I recommend that that vote be put 03:02:08.319 --> 03:02:09.976 again because I think there's a 03:02:10.000 --> 03:02:12.776 confusion absolute confusion in terms of 03:02:12.800 --> 03:02:14.536 in terms of it. 03:02:14.560 --> 03:02:17.176 So this is for the amendment that there 03:02:17.200 --> 03:02:19.896 is not a requirement that all counselors 03:02:19.920 --> 03:02:22.696 be invited to meeting to this accredited 03:02:22.720 --> 03:02:25.720 meetings. So those voting against the 03:02:26.319 --> 03:02:28.536 amendment, 03:02:28.560 --> 03:02:31.335 councelor Crystalardis, councelor 03:02:31.359 --> 03:02:33.496 Norris, councelor Clansancy, councelor 03:02:33.520 --> 03:02:36.520 Boyd, Council Killian, Councelor Tribe, 03:02:36.560 --> 03:02:39.016 and Councelor Dunn. Those voting for the 03:02:39.040 --> 03:02:41.656 amendment, Councelor Casmir, Councelor 03:02:41.680 --> 03:02:43.576 Wilkins, councelor Crowdfoot, Councelor 03:02:43.600 --> 03:02:46.600 Steele, Councelor Kemp, and Councelor 03:02:46.800 --> 03:02:49.576 White. I think it's lost. 03:02:49.600 --> 03:02:51.816 Yeah. So the amendment's been lost. So 03:02:51.840 --> 03:02:53.576 I'll go to write a reply. Council of 03:02:53.600 --> 03:02:56.600 Tribe 03:02:57.520 --> 03:02:59.335 everyone for giving this um the 03:02:59.359 --> 03:03:02.359 attention it deserves and I note 03:03:03.920 --> 03:03:06.920 I I too was a little confused toward 03:03:07.120 --> 03:03:09.496 the end there about election forums but 03:03:09.520 --> 03:03:11.736 section 13.3 03:03:11.760 --> 03:03:13.656 has become the annual compliance 03:03:13.680 --> 03:03:15.896 checklist has become section 14. So that 03:03:15.920 --> 03:03:18.920 last stop point is deleted as part of 03:03:19.120 --> 03:03:20.776 this for anyone who was concerned about 03:03:20.800 --> 03:03:23.800 that. Um but it's a it's an important 03:03:23.920 --> 03:03:25.736 way for place-based engagement to 03:03:25.760 --> 03:03:28.216 continue. So I um I hope this is 03:03:28.240 --> 03:03:29.656 supported. 03:03:29.680 --> 03:03:32.680 Right. So I'll put the recommendation 03:03:33.120 --> 03:03:35.496 that is the recommendation on the 03:03:35.520 --> 03:03:37.736 screen. So the amendments that we have 03:03:37.760 --> 03:03:40.760 made um to the accredititated forum 03:03:41.600 --> 03:03:43.176 which are all the dot points that we 03:03:43.200 --> 03:03:45.976 made from councelor Boyd. All right. 03:03:46.000 --> 03:03:49.000 plus all of the existing um 03:03:49.200 --> 03:03:52.200 accredititation forum forum that we 03:03:52.399 --> 03:03:55.016 have not changed. So we all understand 03:03:55.040 --> 03:03:58.040 what we're voting for. So those wishing 03:03:58.880 --> 03:04:01.576 to vote against 03:04:01.600 --> 03:04:04.600 councelor Proudoot, councelor Kemp, the 03:04:04.640 --> 03:04:07.576 balance vote for. So I'll declare that 03:04:07.600 --> 03:04:10.536 it's carried. So, councelor Crystal, 03:04:10.560 --> 03:04:13.176 councelor Norris, councelor Clansancy, 03:04:13.200 --> 03:04:16.200 CL councelor um Boyd, councelor Kellian, 03:04:16.880 --> 03:04:19.335 councelor Casmir and councelor Wilkins, 03:04:19.359 --> 03:04:21.896 councelor Tribe, councelor Steele and 03:04:21.920 --> 03:04:24.920 councelor white vote for the changes and 03:04:25.120 --> 03:04:26.856 the accredititation. 03:04:26.880 --> 03:04:29.880 Um so we'll now move on to um CL 26101 03:04:31.680 --> 03:04:34.680 DPN and OP 2526 quarterly performance 03:04:35.439 --> 03:04:38.439 review. Councelor Proudfoot 03:04:42.240 --> 03:04:44.616 I'm happy to second it. 03:04:44.640 --> 03:04:47.640 Sorry, can I want to put in a point6 03:04:48.800 --> 03:04:51.800 that that council staff report 03:04:53.680 --> 03:04:56.056 on a fixed percentage 03:04:56.080 --> 03:04:59.080 of future budgets for roads 03:05:01.840 --> 03:05:04.840 be included as a benchmark? 03:05:08.080 --> 03:05:09.096 So, 03:05:09.120 --> 03:05:11.096 yep. CEO. 03:05:11.120 --> 03:05:13.335 So I might just hand it to director 03:05:13.359 --> 03:05:16.359 Buckman just in relation to in terms of 03:05:16.800 --> 03:05:18.856 our obligations in relation to office of 03:05:18.880 --> 03:05:21.255 local government around our reporting 03:05:21.279 --> 03:05:23.176 versus I mean I I can see what councelor 03:05:23.200 --> 03:05:25.016 Proudford's doing and I think it's a 03:05:25.040 --> 03:05:28.040 worthy intent just making sure that as I 03:05:28.479 --> 03:05:31.479 understand it you are after a separate 03:05:31.920 --> 03:05:34.776 report that sits alongside to show the 03:05:34.800 --> 03:05:36.216 percentage of the budget going towards 03:05:36.240 --> 03:05:37.816 roads. 03:05:37.840 --> 03:05:40.840 No, what what I'm after is we say for 03:05:42.000 --> 03:05:45.000 example, we say we want 10% of of our 03:05:46.000 --> 03:05:49.000 budget be spent on roads. 03:05:50.560 --> 03:05:53.096 That's and then the rest of the budget 03:05:53.120 --> 03:05:55.255 is evolved around that particular 03:05:55.279 --> 03:05:56.936 percentage. And the reason we're doing 03:05:56.960 --> 03:05:58.536 that is because our roads do need 03:05:58.560 --> 03:06:01.176 repairing and we highlight that so that 03:06:01.200 --> 03:06:03.896 our our rate payers, our people know 03:06:03.920 --> 03:06:05.976 exactly what we're on about. Now, I'm 03:06:06.000 --> 03:06:07.255 not sure what the percentage is at the 03:06:07.279 --> 03:06:09.816 moment, but as we start to recover 03:06:09.840 --> 03:06:12.295 financially, we should be aiming at 03:06:12.319 --> 03:06:15.319 fixing that piece of infrastructure 03:06:15.680 --> 03:06:18.680 called roads that were elected to do. 03:06:19.200 --> 03:06:21.335 And so, I'd like to personally I'd like 03:06:21.359 --> 03:06:23.656 to benchmark that in future budget at 03:06:23.680 --> 03:06:25.096 10%. 03:06:25.120 --> 03:06:27.976 So, can I just clarify, are you asking 03:06:28.000 --> 03:06:30.056 for that detail, that report to come 03:06:30.080 --> 03:06:33.080 with the quarter budget reviews? So, do 03:06:33.520 --> 03:06:35.736 you want to or the annual? 03:06:35.760 --> 03:06:37.736 No, this is annual. I know I know this 03:06:37.760 --> 03:06:40.696 is a quarterly budget review, but I'm 03:06:40.720 --> 03:06:43.176 I'm after a report for our annual 03:06:43.200 --> 03:06:46.200 budget, not what we spend on those, but 03:06:46.319 --> 03:06:48.216 what we intend to spend on those. So, we 03:06:48.240 --> 03:06:50.536 set that aside in the budget. Can I make 03:06:50.560 --> 03:06:52.936 a suggestion that um we take this 03:06:52.960 --> 03:06:55.496 offline over the next month when and as 03:06:55.520 --> 03:06:58.520 we formally vote on the budget in June 03:07:00.160 --> 03:07:02.616 that we actually consider what you're 03:07:02.640 --> 03:07:04.295 saying and work with you over the course 03:07:04.319 --> 03:07:05.736 of the next month as to how you would do 03:07:05.760 --> 03:07:07.335 that. So rather than through the 03:07:07.359 --> 03:07:09.496 quarterly performance report to council, 03:07:09.520 --> 03:07:12.216 given that we're setting the budget at 03:07:12.240 --> 03:07:13.816 the end of June formally after the 03:07:13.840 --> 03:07:16.840 community consultation that we actually 03:07:17.200 --> 03:07:18.616 take on board exactly what you're saying 03:07:18.640 --> 03:07:20.536 and work with you to to word something 03:07:20.560 --> 03:07:22.295 up to that effect. 03:07:22.319 --> 03:07:24.776 Okay. Well, I could I could produce as a 03:07:24.800 --> 03:07:26.375 notice of motion at the next meeting if 03:07:26.399 --> 03:07:26.696 you 03:07:26.720 --> 03:07:28.295 Yeah. Yeah. No, no, but I I mean it's 03:07:28.319 --> 03:07:29.496 it's something we might be able to even 03:07:29.520 --> 03:07:32.056 factor into this year's budget, 03:07:32.080 --> 03:07:34.136 but I I just I'd prefer to take it 03:07:34.160 --> 03:07:37.160 offline rather than 03:07:37.359 --> 03:07:40.359 just include it into this as a you know 03:07:41.680 --> 03:07:43.496 an addition to a motion that relates to 03:07:43.520 --> 03:07:44.776 the quarterly report. 03:07:44.800 --> 03:07:47.656 Okay. Well, I'll accept your wise 03:07:47.680 --> 03:07:49.816 counsel. 03:07:49.840 --> 03:07:51.255 All right. 03:07:51.279 --> 03:07:52.216 So, 03:07:52.240 --> 03:07:54.136 so do you want to speak in any other 03:07:54.160 --> 03:07:55.816 area of the quarter review? 03:07:55.840 --> 03:07:57.896 In speaking to the the quarter quarter 03:07:57.920 --> 03:08:00.776 review on page 30, 03:08:00.800 --> 03:08:02.776 um 03:08:02.800 --> 03:08:04.776 I'd like to get a staff comment on the 03:08:04.800 --> 03:08:07.800 third paragraph on page 30. Any any 03:08:07.840 --> 03:08:09.496 proposed changes to the budget are 03:08:09.520 --> 03:08:10.936 included in the attached December 03:08:10.960 --> 03:08:13.960 quarterly budget review statement? Um 03:08:15.439 --> 03:08:18.136 can staff just briefly highlight some of 03:08:18.160 --> 03:08:21.160 those points that have been 03:08:22.000 --> 03:08:23.415 to 03:08:23.439 --> 03:08:24.936 published in the quarterly budget review 03:08:24.960 --> 03:08:27.960 statement. 03:08:30.479 --> 03:08:33.479 So I'll go to the CFO. 03:08:33.760 --> 03:08:35.255 Madame Mayor, I need some clarification 03:08:35.279 --> 03:08:36.776 on what page where where's the 03:08:36.800 --> 03:08:38.455 Oh, it's sorry. What page? Council 03:08:38.479 --> 03:08:41.479 page 31 par the third paragraph. 03:08:43.520 --> 03:08:45.335 Any proposed changes to the budget are 03:08:45.359 --> 03:08:46.536 included in the attached December 03:08:46.560 --> 03:08:49.560 quarterly budget review statement. 03:08:50.800 --> 03:08:52.616 any proposed changes to the budget 03:08:52.640 --> 03:08:54.056 are included in the attached December 03:08:54.080 --> 03:08:55.576 quarterly budget review statement. Is 03:08:55.600 --> 03:08:57.016 that is that what you're asking? 03:08:57.040 --> 03:08:59.896 Yeah. Can you expand on? 03:08:59.920 --> 03:09:02.455 So, it's this um 03:09:02.479 --> 03:09:04.455 madame mayor, it's it's in relation 03:09:04.479 --> 03:09:07.479 to this um the tables um on pages 03:09:09.920 --> 03:09:12.920 sort of 127, 126, 125 that explain in 03:09:14.560 --> 03:09:16.696 detail what the actual amendments to the 03:09:16.720 --> 03:09:18.455 QBR3 03:09:18.479 --> 03:09:20.295 um budget are. 03:09:20.319 --> 03:09:21.816 Oh, in the attachments there. 03:09:21.840 --> 03:09:23.656 Yeah, just in the attachments there. 03:09:23.680 --> 03:09:25.816 Okay. 03:09:25.840 --> 03:09:27.096 Thank you. 03:09:27.120 --> 03:09:29.656 03:09:29.680 --> 03:09:30.936 which I've read actually look through 03:09:30.960 --> 03:09:33.960 that now the the sanctuary point library 03:09:35.200 --> 03:09:37.335 um 03:09:37.359 --> 03:09:39.255 the way it's been reported here it's 03:09:39.279 --> 03:09:41.496 over 03:09:41.520 --> 03:09:44.520 the funding is um is there from the the 03:09:45.200 --> 03:09:47.736 federal government is is there any 03:09:47.760 --> 03:09:50.760 development on that in several places 03:09:51.040 --> 03:09:52.696 throughout this report the Sanctuary 03:09:52.720 --> 03:09:55.176 Point Library gets a mention 03:09:55.200 --> 03:09:58.200 um So, where is that funding at? Where 03:09:58.240 --> 03:10:01.240 are we at with it? Or is this old news? 03:10:02.319 --> 03:10:05.096 Um, council, what we are planning on 03:10:05.120 --> 03:10:08.120 doing is presenting back to council um a 03:10:09.600 --> 03:10:12.295 report for the next meeting and how we 03:10:12.319 --> 03:10:15.319 move forward with the library. Um, in 03:10:15.920 --> 03:10:17.255 light of the conversations that we've 03:10:17.279 --> 03:10:19.816 had in relation to, , with the federal 03:10:19.840 --> 03:10:22.375 department, in relation to planning 03:10:22.399 --> 03:10:24.616 monies in particular, 03:10:24.640 --> 03:10:27.335 um, we are working through that report 03:10:27.359 --> 03:10:29.656 at the moment. , it's fair to say 03:10:29.680 --> 03:10:32.136 that, , I want us to just get on with 03:10:32.160 --> 03:10:34.856 it and we will be looking and making a 03:10:34.880 --> 03:10:37.415 recommendation to council next month in 03:10:37.439 --> 03:10:39.896 relation to how to do that. 03:10:39.920 --> 03:10:42.920 um in light of the fact that we do not 03:10:43.279 --> 03:10:45.576 have an agreement in relation to how the 03:10:45.600 --> 03:10:48.600 $7.5 million can be spent at this time. 03:10:48.640 --> 03:10:50.696 So we've got a pathway forward which we 03:10:50.720 --> 03:10:51.896 want to present. 03:10:51.920 --> 03:10:54.920 once we do that um then that will 03:10:55.439 --> 03:10:58.439 give a give clarity to to your question. 03:10:58.960 --> 03:11:01.960 Um and you know again one of the things 03:11:02.319 --> 03:11:05.319 which I'm trying to work through with 03:11:05.840 --> 03:11:08.840 um director Norwood and Mr. Xton is how 03:11:09.279 --> 03:11:12.279 we can expedite a the planning and b 03:11:12.800 --> 03:11:14.295 getting it underway in terms of 03:11:14.319 --> 03:11:16.776 construction. So, we're looking to do 03:11:16.800 --> 03:11:18.455 that and we'll be reporting back to you 03:11:18.479 --> 03:11:20.856 a process which I hope the councilors 03:11:20.880 --> 03:11:23.880 will consider 03:11:25.040 --> 03:11:27.576 and is it true in with that project that 03:11:27.600 --> 03:11:30.056 7.5 million was never handed back 03:11:30.080 --> 03:11:31.736 because it was never received is that 03:11:31.760 --> 03:11:33.976 yeah so the way that this was working is 03:11:34.000 --> 03:11:36.536 we have to acquit for the funds as we 03:11:36.560 --> 03:11:38.136 meet breach milestones. So the 03:11:38.160 --> 03:11:39.736 negotiation that had occurred as I 03:11:39.760 --> 03:11:42.056 understand it was in relation to the 03:11:42.080 --> 03:11:44.136 planning monies 03:11:44.160 --> 03:11:47.160 um and you know as reported previously 03:11:48.720 --> 03:11:51.016 we didn't get a green light on how we 03:11:51.040 --> 03:11:52.936 wanted to expend the money on a 03:11:52.960 --> 03:11:55.496 obviously that the new site with you 03:11:55.520 --> 03:11:58.520 know a realist style project. So, you 03:12:00.640 --> 03:12:02.455 know, I think there's going to have to 03:12:02.479 --> 03:12:04.136 be a bold decision made at some point 03:12:04.160 --> 03:12:05.976 and that's what we're looking to to 03:12:06.000 --> 03:12:09.000 present to you very soon. 03:12:09.200 --> 03:12:09.976 Okay. Thank you. 03:12:10.000 --> 03:12:12.375 Then it becomes a question as to what 03:12:12.399 --> 03:12:13.496 ultimately I think the national 03:12:13.520 --> 03:12:15.176 government will do in terms of their 03:12:15.200 --> 03:12:17.736 funds. 03:12:17.760 --> 03:12:20.056 03:12:20.080 --> 03:12:23.080 another dot point on page 32. 03:12:24.000 --> 03:12:27.000 Major projects completed this quarter 03:12:27.040 --> 03:12:28.856 include 03:12:28.880 --> 03:12:31.335 the refurbishion of the Francis Ryan 03:12:31.359 --> 03:12:33.816 clubhouse. 03:12:33.840 --> 03:12:36.840 So, are we redefining major projects? 03:12:39.040 --> 03:12:40.776 That you got an old building that's 03:12:40.800 --> 03:12:42.136 almost falling down. I got painted 03:12:42.160 --> 03:12:43.496 inside and out. We're calling that a 03:12:43.520 --> 03:12:45.656 major project. 03:12:45.680 --> 03:12:47.656 Is that is that truly representative of 03:12:47.680 --> 03:12:50.616 what actually occurred? 03:12:50.640 --> 03:12:50.776 I 03:12:50.800 --> 03:12:53.176 have to defer to Kevin. 03:12:53.200 --> 03:12:56.200 So can I defer to director Norwood? 03:13:01.680 --> 03:13:03.656 I think it's sorry through Mayor I think 03:13:03.680 --> 03:13:05.415 it's just referring to the project below 03:13:05.439 --> 03:13:07.415 in the river project and the MURF not 03:13:07.439 --> 03:13:09.656 the actual Francis Ryan project which is 03:13:09.680 --> 03:13:12.056 completed that was largely completed 03:13:12.080 --> 03:13:14.056 through the insurance money we had and 03:13:14.080 --> 03:13:16.616 other funding. 03:13:16.640 --> 03:13:19.640 Well, it says it there. Major projects. 03:13:19.840 --> 03:13:21.096 It lists them there. And the 03:13:21.120 --> 03:13:22.375 refurbishment of the Francis Ryan 03:13:22.399 --> 03:13:25.399 Clubhouse. So, 03:13:25.680 --> 03:13:28.680 I think we can delete that one. 03:13:29.200 --> 03:13:30.936 So, we can make a note of that in the 03:13:30.960 --> 03:13:33.960 minutes. 03:13:34.960 --> 03:13:37.960 And a concern on page 36. Madam Chair, 03:13:38.720 --> 03:13:41.720 um 03:13:42.000 --> 03:13:43.576 years of charges and fees and other 03:13:43.600 --> 03:13:46.295 income have decreased primarily due to 03:13:46.319 --> 03:13:49.319 lower than expected waste tipping fees, 03:13:49.760 --> 03:13:52.056 development application income and 03:13:52.080 --> 03:13:54.056 ranges fine revenue. This has been 03:13:54.080 --> 03:13:56.776 partially offset by dividend payments 03:13:56.800 --> 03:13:58.936 and so on. 03:13:58.960 --> 03:14:01.960 Now a big concern I believe is is the 03:14:04.239 --> 03:14:07.239 waste tipping fees and the DAS 03:14:07.279 --> 03:14:10.279 Um, is there any particular reason why 03:14:12.000 --> 03:14:14.936 they've decreased primarily? 03:14:14.960 --> 03:14:17.576 That's a that to me is a major concern. 03:14:17.600 --> 03:14:20.136 I have some 03:14:20.160 --> 03:14:23.160 indication is what happened there. 03:14:23.600 --> 03:14:25.736 I don't know if wants to answer that. 03:14:25.760 --> 03:14:27.415 CFO is probably the best person to 03:14:27.439 --> 03:14:28.856 respond to all of those. 03:14:28.880 --> 03:14:31.880 Yeah, I'll I'll first go to the CFO and 03:14:32.080 --> 03:14:33.896 then if I need to go further, I'll go to 03:14:33.920 --> 03:14:36.920 the directors. So, CFO. 03:14:37.279 --> 03:14:39.096 Thank you, Madame May. Um, I'd like to 03:14:39.120 --> 03:14:40.696 take that question on notice. It is 03:14:40.720 --> 03:14:42.455 something that we're aware of obviously 03:14:42.479 --> 03:14:44.856 as well, and we're investigating um 03:14:44.880 --> 03:14:47.255 especially the reduction in the um 03:14:47.279 --> 03:14:49.335 tipping fees. Um, but it's something we 03:14:49.359 --> 03:14:50.696 Shoalhaven't got an answer for yet. So, if 03:14:50.720 --> 03:14:51.976 you take that on notice, that'll be 03:14:52.000 --> 03:14:53.976 appreciated. 03:14:54.000 --> 03:14:54.295 All right. 03:14:54.319 --> 03:14:56.696 Okay. Thank you. And I once again thank 03:14:56.720 --> 03:14:58.856 staff for their hard work in putting the 03:14:58.880 --> 03:15:01.656 report together. And I move the motion. 03:15:01.680 --> 03:15:02.696 Thanks, Madam Chair. 03:15:02.720 --> 03:15:05.096 Thank you. And it's been seconded. So, 03:15:05.120 --> 03:15:07.896 um, councelor Wilkins. 03:15:07.920 --> 03:15:10.136 Thanks, Madame Mayor. I was going to 03:15:10.160 --> 03:15:13.160 second councelor Proud's foot a proud 03:15:13.600 --> 03:15:15.656 foot's amendment there, but happy with 03:15:15.680 --> 03:15:18.680 the, , to take that offline and, , 03:15:19.120 --> 03:15:21.576 further that. Just a few years ago, we 03:15:21.600 --> 03:15:24.136 were spending in the vicinity of 20% in 03:15:24.160 --> 03:15:27.096 the budget on roads with the general 03:15:27.120 --> 03:15:28.936 fund. And now that's down to as we 03:15:28.960 --> 03:15:31.736 realized or were informed just a few 03:15:31.760 --> 03:15:34.375 weeks ago that that's just over 6%. 03:15:34.399 --> 03:15:37.399 So I feel like that could be up to even 03:15:37.680 --> 03:15:40.680 more than 10% maybe 12%. but I do 03:15:40.960 --> 03:15:43.960 have a question on um page 37. 03:15:45.760 --> 03:15:48.760 Page 37. the unfavorable result with 03:15:50.239 --> 03:15:53.239 the faulty water meter and the 03:15:53.439 --> 03:15:55.896 balance of 1.9 millions which was the 03:15:55.920 --> 03:15:58.920 net unfavorable result of 95ks. 03:15:59.120 --> 03:16:02.120 Um the dates though interested me is 03:16:02.160 --> 03:16:05.160 June 23 to March 26. That's nearly three 03:16:06.080 --> 03:16:08.696 years. So why did it take that long to 03:16:08.720 --> 03:16:11.656 to pick up that error, that costly 03:16:11.680 --> 03:16:14.136 error? 03:16:14.160 --> 03:16:16.936 I just in response, Director McVey isn't 03:16:16.960 --> 03:16:19.016 here this evening and he he is all over 03:16:19.040 --> 03:16:21.816 this. I can assure you. Um, so if it's 03:16:21.840 --> 03:16:24.840 possible for us to um do one of two 03:16:25.040 --> 03:16:27.816 things, either take that question on on 03:16:27.840 --> 03:16:30.136 notice and certainly give you an answer 03:16:30.160 --> 03:16:32.696 at the next meeting publicly so that 03:16:32.720 --> 03:16:34.536 the entire community can hear that hear 03:16:34.560 --> 03:16:35.736 that response. I think that would be 03:16:35.760 --> 03:16:36.536 appropriate. 03:16:36.560 --> 03:16:38.616 Okay. Thank you. 03:16:38.640 --> 03:16:40.616 Council Director Buckman, can you just 03:16:40.640 --> 03:16:42.856 come out? 03:16:42.880 --> 03:16:45.255 Yeah. 03:16:45.279 --> 03:16:47.896 So, is there any further questions? Yep. 03:16:47.920 --> 03:16:50.920 Council of Tribe. 03:16:53.680 --> 03:16:56.680 One is about the 03:16:57.279 --> 03:16:59.496 uncompleted 03:16:59.520 --> 03:17:02.136 notice of motions. in the 03:17:02.160 --> 03:17:04.455 attachment page nine, there's one about 03:17:04.479 --> 03:17:07.479 NEMA and a note that the grant opens 03:17:07.760 --> 03:17:10.375 mid year and I just want to know how we 03:17:10.399 --> 03:17:13.399 are monitoring when that opens. Um, 03:17:15.040 --> 03:17:16.375 no, I don't think we have a grant 03:17:16.399 --> 03:17:17.816 officer at the moment. And I just want 03:17:17.840 --> 03:17:20.136 to find out what we're doing. Are we 03:17:20.160 --> 03:17:21.816 checking in on the page to see when it's 03:17:21.840 --> 03:17:23.496 open yet and when we should apply and 03:17:23.520 --> 03:17:26.215 just get some confidence around that 03:17:26.239 --> 03:17:29.176 we're all over it and ready to apply for 03:17:29.200 --> 03:17:32.200 that one. , and then my second 03:17:32.640 --> 03:17:35.640 question and final question is around 03:17:36.080 --> 03:17:39.080 carry forwards. so we've got on page 03:17:39.680 --> 03:17:42.680 39 QBR3 total of 8.8 8 million in carry 03:17:44.319 --> 03:17:47.096 ford projects and I just want to get 03:17:47.120 --> 03:17:49.656 some commentary if I can please around 03:17:49.680 --> 03:17:52.680 some of those um I couldn't see any 03:17:52.880 --> 03:17:55.880 detail in the attachment around 03:17:56.080 --> 03:17:58.776 particularly the roads package and 03:17:58.800 --> 03:18:01.800 the the sto the last one the storm water 03:18:02.479 --> 03:18:05.016 for Kbara 03:18:05.040 --> 03:18:08.040 um park row etc. I guess just you 03:18:10.399 --> 03:18:12.536 know were we over ambitious in in 03:18:12.560 --> 03:18:14.455 putting those through or was there 03:18:14.479 --> 03:18:17.479 unforeseen delays? I just yeah want to 03:18:17.840 --> 03:18:19.335 get some commentary around that one too 03:18:19.359 --> 03:18:19.976 please. 03:18:20.000 --> 03:18:23.000 I'll go to the CFO. 03:18:25.920 --> 03:18:28.616 Yep. Yep. Or 03:18:28.640 --> 03:18:29.496 for capital. 03:18:29.520 --> 03:18:30.455 Yes. 03:18:30.479 --> 03:18:32.536 It's probably best director Norwood. Oh, 03:18:32.560 --> 03:18:34.536 so I'll go I'll go to director Norwood 03:18:34.560 --> 03:18:37.560 if um director Norwood can you answer 03:18:37.680 --> 03:18:37.976 those? 03:18:38.000 --> 03:18:39.576 Happy to talk to the roads issues. Is 03:18:39.600 --> 03:18:39.976 that 03:18:40.000 --> 03:18:43.000 Y get my glasses council? 03:18:43.600 --> 03:18:46.375 Um in regards to the roads package in 03:18:46.399 --> 03:18:47.896 answer to your question council tried 03:18:47.920 --> 03:18:50.616 but I can say this that things are on 03:18:50.640 --> 03:18:52.936 track. There has been issues with design 03:18:52.960 --> 03:18:54.776 etc. But from what I understand there's 03:18:54.800 --> 03:18:57.496 been a few issues with procurement. 03:18:57.520 --> 03:18:59.016 There's nothing that I can see here 03:18:59.040 --> 03:19:00.536 that's going to be an issue running into 03:19:00.560 --> 03:19:01.976 next year. That's the advice that I've 03:19:02.000 --> 03:19:05.000 been given from staff. Um, if you want, 03:19:05.600 --> 03:19:07.016 would you also like me to talk to 03:19:07.040 --> 03:19:08.616 buildings notably Holiday Shoalhaven, 03:19:08.640 --> 03:19:11.496 cabinet, etc.? 03:19:11.520 --> 03:19:14.056 No, that's okay. Two points. The road 03:19:14.080 --> 03:19:15.736 package would answer. The second one is 03:19:15.760 --> 03:19:17.335 the storm water. I couldn't see any 03:19:17.359 --> 03:19:20.359 detail on why the delays for that one. 03:19:20.640 --> 03:19:23.640 The storm water through Madame May. 03:19:24.319 --> 03:19:25.896 The storm water is becoming more 03:19:25.920 --> 03:19:27.255 problemsome than we actually realize. 03:19:27.279 --> 03:19:29.656 there's more data missing than we we've 03:19:29.680 --> 03:19:31.415 got more pipes there. The staff are 03:19:31.439 --> 03:19:33.096 running into a lot of issues with their 03:19:33.120 --> 03:19:34.616 camera work and every time they come 03:19:34.640 --> 03:19:37.096 across a blockage, they have to start 03:19:37.120 --> 03:19:40.120 again. So, the storm water network is 03:19:40.319 --> 03:19:42.056 in a lot worse condition we actually 03:19:42.080 --> 03:19:43.976 anticipated and it's put us back quite a 03:19:44.000 --> 03:19:44.616 way. 03:19:44.640 --> 03:19:46.536 Okay, that's probably a good segue then 03:19:46.560 --> 03:19:49.335 to the NEMA um point in the 03:19:49.359 --> 03:19:52.056 incomplete notice of motion and just 03:19:52.080 --> 03:19:54.136 making sure we're ready to apply for 03:19:54.160 --> 03:19:55.816 that when it opens. How are we 03:19:55.840 --> 03:19:57.255 monitoring 03:19:57.279 --> 03:19:59.415 when that that funding round will 03:19:59.439 --> 03:20:02.136 open because storm water infrastructure 03:20:02.160 --> 03:20:03.976 and future planning was a big part of 03:20:04.000 --> 03:20:07.000 what we hope to apply for there. 03:20:08.560 --> 03:20:10.215 Yeah, through you madame mayor. We are 03:20:10.239 --> 03:20:13.239 well on top of that. The staff are very 03:20:13.359 --> 03:20:14.856 much waiting for all these grants to 03:20:14.880 --> 03:20:17.880 open up. 03:20:23.760 --> 03:20:25.816 Um a couple of questions. I'm not sure 03:20:25.840 --> 03:20:27.255 whether this one might need to be taken 03:20:27.279 --> 03:20:30.136 on notice with director McVey not here 03:20:30.160 --> 03:20:33.160 but I I wanted to ask about the um the 03:20:33.680 --> 03:20:36.616 waste management strategy which is under 03:20:36.640 --> 03:20:39.640 review um but is in some sort of 03:20:40.640 --> 03:20:42.936 difficulty because of we're waiting on a 03:20:42.960 --> 03:20:45.255 um development application approval 03:20:45.279 --> 03:20:46.696 which is going to impact on it quite 03:20:46.720 --> 03:20:49.720 strongly. Can anyone 03:20:49.840 --> 03:20:52.616 can can you answer? Yep. I'll go to 03:20:52.640 --> 03:20:55.640 Yep. 03:20:55.760 --> 03:20:58.455 Um the waste strategy is currently in 03:20:58.479 --> 03:21:00.696 development um by the staff. So we're 03:21:00.720 --> 03:21:02.936 hoping to have that um ready to present 03:21:02.960 --> 03:21:05.736 soon. Um we you are correct in terms of 03:21:05.760 --> 03:21:08.215 it is contingent on that approval for 03:21:08.239 --> 03:21:09.976 the extension of the of the waste 03:21:10.000 --> 03:21:12.215 facility height. Um so that waste 03:21:12.239 --> 03:21:14.455 strategy will be coming to councilors um 03:21:14.479 --> 03:21:17.479 for their review soon soon. 03:21:22.720 --> 03:21:25.720 sit down. Um the second thing was about 03:21:25.840 --> 03:21:27.976 the um community emissions reduction 03:21:28.000 --> 03:21:31.000 plan. I'm just wondering due June 26. Um 03:21:33.520 --> 03:21:35.816 can I get a little bit of an update on 03:21:35.840 --> 03:21:37.335 what how that's progressing and whether 03:21:37.359 --> 03:21:40.359 it's likely to be ready by June? 03:21:42.239 --> 03:21:43.415 Through you, Madame May. We'll have to 03:21:43.439 --> 03:21:45.415 take that question on notice in regards 03:21:45.439 --> 03:21:47.736 to the depot if we could get um 03:21:47.760 --> 03:21:49.496 questions on actions from counselors 03:21:49.520 --> 03:21:50.616 ahead of the meeting just because 03:21:50.640 --> 03:21:52.375 there's a number of staff that do input 03:21:52.399 --> 03:21:54.936 into these and we aren't necessarily 03:21:54.960 --> 03:21:57.176 very happy to do that where I can I've 03:21:57.200 --> 03:21:58.856 been reading right up until lunch time 03:21:58.880 --> 03:21:59.176 today. 03:21:59.200 --> 03:22:00.215 That's okay. But we'll take that on 03:22:00.239 --> 03:22:01.096 notice. 03:22:01.120 --> 03:22:02.375 Let's see. 03:22:02.399 --> 03:22:05.335 All right. Any further questions or um 03:22:05.359 --> 03:22:07.335 speakers? If not, I'll go back to you. 03:22:07.359 --> 03:22:10.359 Councelor Proudoot. Write a reply. No. 03:22:10.479 --> 03:22:13.479 So councilors wishing to vote against um 03:22:15.920 --> 03:22:18.920 against the recommendation. 03:22:19.359 --> 03:22:21.976 So I declare that carried unanimously. 03:22:22.000 --> 03:22:24.856 We'll now go to the investment 03:22:24.880 --> 03:22:27.496 report, but I'll just remind councilors 03:22:27.520 --> 03:22:30.136 um we have got 8 minutes left of this 03:22:30.160 --> 03:22:32.056 meeting and we've still got a lot of 03:22:32.080 --> 03:22:32.616 business. 03:22:32.640 --> 03:22:34.696 It's 9:00 till 10. 03:22:34.720 --> 03:22:37.176 No, no, I'll have to get an extension. 03:22:37.200 --> 03:22:40.200 Um, so yeah. So, um, so at 9:00, so I 03:22:43.760 --> 03:22:46.375 need an I need a mover and a second for 03:22:46.399 --> 03:22:49.399 an extension till 10:00. Um, if we don't 03:22:49.760 --> 03:22:52.056 finish by 10:00, we will be leaving and 03:22:52.080 --> 03:22:54.056 coming back tomorrow. So, councelor 03:22:54.080 --> 03:22:55.736 Wilkins, you're moving an extension. 03:22:55.760 --> 03:22:58.760 Council Killian are um seconding it. Is 03:22:58.960 --> 03:23:00.856 there anybody wishing to vote against an 03:23:00.880 --> 03:23:02.856 extension? Councelor Norris and 03:23:02.880 --> 03:23:05.096 Councelor Clancy balance vote in favor 03:23:05.120 --> 03:23:07.255 of an extension. So I declared the 03:23:07.279 --> 03:23:10.279 extensions being um granted. So I'm just 03:23:10.640 --> 03:23:12.375 mindful we've got a confidential report 03:23:12.399 --> 03:23:13.896 and there's things in the confidential 03:23:13.920 --> 03:23:16.455 report that will need to be discussed. 03:23:16.479 --> 03:23:19.176 Um so we'll move to the investment 03:23:19.200 --> 03:23:22.200 report. So CL 26.102. 03:23:22.479 --> 03:23:25.096 Councelor Proudford. So it's been moved 03:23:25.120 --> 03:23:26.455 by councelor Crowford. Do I have a 03:23:26.479 --> 03:23:29.479 seconder? Councelor Wilkins. , is 03:23:30.000 --> 03:23:33.000 there anybody wishing to speak to it? 03:23:33.200 --> 03:23:35.255 If not, I'll put the recommendation. 03:23:35.279 --> 03:23:38.279 Those won't wishing to vote against, 03:23:38.479 --> 03:23:41.415 I declare that carried unanimously. 03:23:41.439 --> 03:23:44.439 So, we'll then move down to councelor 03:23:44.880 --> 03:23:47.880 Wilkins for CL 26103, 03:23:48.560 --> 03:23:51.096 the bad debts. And I'll just remind you 03:23:51.120 --> 03:23:53.016 that this is a discussion on the white 03:23:53.040 --> 03:23:55.896 paper, not on the yellow paper. yes, 03:23:55.920 --> 03:23:58.920 it's just a generic question about u 03:23:59.520 --> 03:24:02.455 bad debts or or a two-part question. 03:24:02.479 --> 03:24:04.856 Historically, is is the figure 03:24:04.880 --> 03:24:07.816 represented in confidential? Is that 03:24:07.840 --> 03:24:10.215 part for the course? And and is this a 03:24:10.239 --> 03:24:13.016 line in the sand moment with with bad 03:24:13.040 --> 03:24:16.040 debts or um will bad debts still be 03:24:17.680 --> 03:24:20.295 chased? I can that's a that's a generic 03:24:20.319 --> 03:24:22.536 enough question, is it to ask? Yeah, 03:24:22.560 --> 03:24:25.016 the the plan is to continue to chase 03:24:25.040 --> 03:24:27.816 chase debts where we can and u you know 03:24:27.840 --> 03:24:29.415 obviously it's important that we go 03:24:29.439 --> 03:24:32.439 through this exercise given you know 03:24:32.560 --> 03:24:35.560 it has been cited by the audit office 03:24:36.399 --> 03:24:38.455 but I do think it's important we 03:24:38.479 --> 03:24:41.096 continue to chase bad debts. So just 03:24:41.120 --> 03:24:42.536 because you're being struck off doesn't 03:24:42.560 --> 03:24:43.576 mean we're not going to knock on your 03:24:43.600 --> 03:24:46.600 door. 03:24:46.720 --> 03:24:49.720 Councelor Kemp, you've got a question. 03:24:49.760 --> 03:24:52.760 Yes. Um I'll step around this. This 03:24:53.040 --> 03:24:55.335 relates to the prior council all of 03:24:55.359 --> 03:24:58.359 this. Are you able to 03:24:58.800 --> 03:25:00.776 So it 03:25:00.800 --> 03:25:03.255 again some of these debts as I 03:25:03.279 --> 03:25:05.016 understand it go back a very long time. 03:25:05.040 --> 03:25:08.040 So I just don't think I mean we it's 03:25:08.399 --> 03:25:10.136 part of good fiscal management for us to 03:25:10.160 --> 03:25:13.016 do this and that's what we're doing and 03:25:13.040 --> 03:25:16.040 um you know ultimately 03:25:16.399 --> 03:25:17.736 you know we can have this discussion the 03:25:17.760 --> 03:25:19.816 confidential session about individual 03:25:19.840 --> 03:25:21.736 detours but you know 03:25:21.760 --> 03:25:24.215 my question relates to why they didn't 03:25:24.239 --> 03:25:25.816 do anything about it but we'll talk 03:25:25.840 --> 03:25:27.816 about that. All right. Thank you. So, 03:25:27.840 --> 03:25:29.255 councelor Wilkins, you're moving the 03:25:29.279 --> 03:25:31.415 report. Do I have a seconder? So, 03:25:31.439 --> 03:25:33.576 councelor Steele, anybody wishing to vote 03:25:33.600 --> 03:25:35.255 against? Moving in confidential for 03:25:35.279 --> 03:25:36.856 that. I declare that carried 03:25:36.880 --> 03:25:39.880 unanimously. Um the next one that we 03:25:40.560 --> 03:25:43.560 need to talk about is 03:25:45.120 --> 03:25:47.736 we go down to council Killian which is 03:25:47.760 --> 03:25:50.760 CL 26106 03:25:52.239 --> 03:25:55.176 which is the amendment to 106 the 03:25:55.200 --> 03:25:58.200 amendment in um the lease in um St. 03:25:58.880 --> 03:26:00.536 Vincent Street. 03:26:00.560 --> 03:26:02.616 Thanks Madame Mayor. I'll move the 03:26:02.640 --> 03:26:05.640 recommendation. Um and I have a second. 03:26:07.520 --> 03:26:10.520 Um I just want to briefly commend um 03:26:11.680 --> 03:26:13.816 this organization. It's good to see that 03:26:13.840 --> 03:26:16.536 the the opportunity to lease some more 03:26:16.560 --> 03:26:18.295 space and have some growth in this 03:26:18.319 --> 03:26:20.056 organization which is doing such great 03:26:20.080 --> 03:26:22.856 work in Ulladulla. So I just want to move 03:26:22.880 --> 03:26:23.576 it. Thank you. 03:26:23.600 --> 03:26:25.576 Yeah, I'm happy to second it. Is there 03:26:25.600 --> 03:26:27.816 any further discussion? 03:26:27.840 --> 03:26:29.415 If there's no further discussion, 03:26:29.439 --> 03:26:32.375 anybody wishing to vote against, 03:26:32.399 --> 03:26:35.176 I declare that carried unanimously. 03:26:35.200 --> 03:26:38.200 so then we move down to councelor 03:26:38.880 --> 03:26:41.880 Wilkins CL 26.107 03:26:42.479 --> 03:26:44.375 Kbara Beach. 03:26:44.399 --> 03:26:46.455 thanks Madame Mayor. yes, it's 03:26:46.479 --> 03:26:48.776 just a question too as I understand. 03:26:48.800 --> 03:26:51.176 Well, this is incompanial as well, but 03:26:51.200 --> 03:26:54.136 this does involve which I don't think 03:26:54.160 --> 03:26:56.536 is any grand secret even though the 03:26:56.560 --> 03:26:59.560 the the notes are rather obuse, but it's 03:27:00.880 --> 03:27:03.880 about ownership and who owns what 03:27:04.160 --> 03:27:07.160 roads and reserves. but this goes 03:27:07.439 --> 03:27:10.439 back 105 years. So, I'm asking 03:27:12.560 --> 03:27:14.215 um 03:27:14.239 --> 03:27:16.856 if it's a decision or an error or or a 03:27:16.880 --> 03:27:18.776 non-decision. 03:27:18.800 --> 03:27:21.800 how is it lasted 105 years until 03:27:22.319 --> 03:27:25.016 it's been picked up? 03:27:25.040 --> 03:27:26.375 I think we might leave that to 03:27:26.399 --> 03:27:28.455 confidential given the legalities around 03:27:28.479 --> 03:27:29.496 it 03:27:29.520 --> 03:27:31.016 if that's okay. Councelor. 03:27:31.040 --> 03:27:32.856 Okay. Thank you, 03:27:32.880 --> 03:27:34.616 Coun. So, are you moving the 03:27:34.640 --> 03:27:36.776 recommendation, Councelor Wilkins? 03:27:36.800 --> 03:27:37.496 Yes. 03:27:37.520 --> 03:27:40.295 I'm happy to second it. Councelor Try, 03:27:40.319 --> 03:27:42.375 I have a question as well just around 03:27:42.399 --> 03:27:45.399 when we can bring this out of do we 03:27:46.880 --> 03:27:48.936 have an you know a time frame on when we 03:27:48.960 --> 03:27:50.455 can inform the community about this 03:27:50.479 --> 03:27:52.936 because obviously they're very anxiously 03:27:52.960 --> 03:27:55.176 awaiting information on it. Do we have 03:27:55.200 --> 03:27:58.200 any ETA in mind on when we might be able 03:27:58.399 --> 03:28:00.295 to bring this out of confidential and 03:28:00.319 --> 03:28:02.536 into the public domain? Um again I 03:28:02.560 --> 03:28:03.816 prefer not to answer that question 03:28:03.840 --> 03:28:06.295 because that in itself forms part of any 03:28:06.319 --> 03:28:09.319 matters before the confidential session. 03:28:09.600 --> 03:28:11.976 So um anybody else wish to ask a 03:28:12.000 --> 03:28:15.000 question or state anything? If not I'll 03:28:15.520 --> 03:28:17.255 put the recommendation. Anybody wishing 03:28:17.279 --> 03:28:19.816 to vote against? I declare that carried 03:28:19.840 --> 03:28:21.496 unanimously. 03:28:21.520 --> 03:28:24.520 Um we will then move down to CL 2611. 03:28:27.279 --> 03:28:30.279 Councelor Casmir. 03:28:32.479 --> 03:28:35.479 Thank you. But thank you madame may 03:28:37.200 --> 03:28:39.335 keeping in mind that our maj source of 03:28:39.359 --> 03:28:42.359 revenue is right payers 03:28:43.279 --> 03:28:44.856 contribution 03:28:44.880 --> 03:28:47.415 and developers contribution 03:28:47.439 --> 03:28:50.136 I'm fully aware how important it is that 03:28:50.160 --> 03:28:53.160 we get a right in defining or 03:28:56.000 --> 03:28:58.856 exhibiting our proposed devisor 03:28:58.880 --> 03:29:01.255 contribution for this project or any 03:29:01.279 --> 03:29:03.656 other project. 03:29:03.680 --> 03:29:06.680 Um, and because there's been a a number 03:29:07.920 --> 03:29:10.920 of comments made and deputations made 03:29:12.160 --> 03:29:15.160 and emails coming back and forward on 03:29:15.439 --> 03:29:18.439 this particular project. I am um 03:29:19.680 --> 03:29:22.136 suggesting that we change their 03:29:22.160 --> 03:29:25.160 recommendation as per 03:29:25.840 --> 03:29:28.840 on the war. Okay. 03:29:35.120 --> 03:29:38.120 Okay. you need to read it out. 03:29:38.399 --> 03:29:41.399 So the one of my one of my concerns is 03:29:42.560 --> 03:29:45.335 that there's been some discussion about 03:29:45.359 --> 03:29:47.816 difference of opinion in from a 03:29:47.840 --> 03:29:49.816 technology viewpoint 03:29:49.840 --> 03:29:51.736 specifically 03:29:51.760 --> 03:29:54.760 about wetlands and other and also back 03:29:55.439 --> 03:29:58.375 in August 2024 03:29:58.399 --> 03:30:01.399 we exhibited a contribution plan of 97 03:30:02.080 --> 03:30:05.080 millions and now it's 147 millions. So 03:30:05.680 --> 03:30:08.056 but what I'm suggesting or what I'm 03:30:08.080 --> 03:30:10.936 proposing or putting forward is that 03:30:10.960 --> 03:30:13.896 number one we endorse the public 03:30:13.920 --> 03:30:16.920 exhibition absolutely however subject to 03:30:18.080 --> 03:30:21.016 the chief executive officer reviewing 03:30:21.040 --> 03:30:24.040 the plan presented and attachments and 03:30:25.359 --> 03:30:28.359 report to the exhibited back and to be 03:30:29.040 --> 03:30:31.736 resolved with the tech technical people 03:30:31.760 --> 03:30:34.760 of the owners group. I don't know if 03:30:34.880 --> 03:30:37.016 that makes sense, but basically what I'm 03:30:37.040 --> 03:30:40.040 saying is we should go back to the table 03:30:41.439 --> 03:30:44.056 with them and read make sure that we are 03:30:44.080 --> 03:30:46.856 all comfortable and understand that we 03:30:46.880 --> 03:30:49.096 are in the same page. 03:30:49.120 --> 03:30:50.616 Number two, I'd like to note that of 03:30:50.640 --> 03:30:53.576 course $30,000 of contribution is not 03:30:53.600 --> 03:30:56.600 sufficient and and we obviously want and 03:30:57.439 --> 03:31:00.439 need more. Therefore, I am saying yes, 03:31:01.120 --> 03:31:03.976 we need to apply to the the IPAT or the 03:31:04.000 --> 03:31:07.000 independent pricing regulation. Okay. 03:31:07.200 --> 03:31:10.200 And have independent assess of the 03:31:14.000 --> 03:31:17.000 Mossw Road North urban release area. 03:31:18.560 --> 03:31:20.215 In other words, relook again at the 03:31:20.239 --> 03:31:23.239 contribution plan and to make sure that 03:31:23.600 --> 03:31:26.455 we got it right before we got out to 03:31:26.479 --> 03:31:28.856 exhibition again. 03:31:28.880 --> 03:31:30.616 Therefore then I'm saying that we should 03:31:30.640 --> 03:31:33.640 direct the well I can't direct stuff but 03:31:33.680 --> 03:31:35.656 direct that the findings of the public 03:31:35.680 --> 03:31:37.816 exhibition be reported back to us. In 03:31:37.840 --> 03:31:39.255 other words when it goes out to public 03:31:39.279 --> 03:31:41.496 exhibition I wanted to fit it back to us 03:31:41.520 --> 03:31:44.520 so we know what it is and with the 03:31:46.479 --> 03:31:49.479 application ensure timely community 03:31:49.760 --> 03:31:52.760 feedback with a final report to be 03:31:53.200 --> 03:31:54.696 followed in the apart assessment. In 03:31:54.720 --> 03:31:56.616 other words, I would like to see a final 03:31:56.640 --> 03:31:59.640 report after the iPad and after the 03:32:00.720 --> 03:32:03.096 public exhibition. 03:32:03.120 --> 03:32:05.736 In a nutshell, what I'm getting to is is 03:32:05.760 --> 03:32:08.760 that delegate the authority to the chief 03:32:09.520 --> 03:32:12.520 executive officer to execute VPA or 03:32:13.359 --> 03:32:16.359 voluntary pro planning agreements for 03:32:16.560 --> 03:32:19.560 undetermined development application 03:32:20.160 --> 03:32:22.776 incorporating tops up or refunds 03:32:22.800 --> 03:32:25.736 whatever the case may be to mitigate any 03:32:25.760 --> 03:32:28.696 further delay in developing the you know 03:32:28.720 --> 03:32:31.496 the housing development and deliver 03:32:31.520 --> 03:32:33.255 while the contribution plan is 03:32:33.279 --> 03:32:35.576 finalized. What I'm trying to get it is 03:32:35.600 --> 03:32:38.600 that I am 100% supportive of move on. 03:32:38.880 --> 03:32:41.335 I'm 100% supportive of we have to go our 03:32:41.359 --> 03:32:42.696 part and make sure we got the numbers 03:32:42.720 --> 03:32:45.016 right. But I'm trying to find a way that 03:32:45.040 --> 03:32:48.040 we not delay the process any further by 03:32:48.479 --> 03:32:51.479 asking co delegate to get the owner 03:32:53.920 --> 03:32:56.536 group to sit around the table get it 03:32:56.560 --> 03:32:58.295 finalized and put it out to public 03:32:58.319 --> 03:32:59.816 exhibition. 03:32:59.840 --> 03:33:00.375 Thank you. 03:33:00.399 --> 03:33:03.399 Is there a second? 03:33:04.000 --> 03:33:07.000 So, councelor Kemp um is seconding it. 03:33:07.200 --> 03:33:10.200 Um so, it's been seconded. So, speakers 03:33:10.880 --> 03:33:13.880 um council tribe and I know council 03:33:13.920 --> 03:33:16.920 Morris. Yep. Council tribe 03:33:20.479 --> 03:33:22.295 speak against this for many many 03:33:22.319 --> 03:33:25.319 reasons. We have had so many briefings 03:33:26.160 --> 03:33:29.160 on this and I'll admit when I heard the 03:33:29.439 --> 03:33:31.496 deputation at the public forum I had 03:33:31.520 --> 03:33:33.016 some questions for staff which I 03:33:33.040 --> 03:33:35.176 promptly went back to and have had all 03:33:35.200 --> 03:33:36.856 of them answered satisfactoryy. It's 03:33:36.880 --> 03:33:39.176 publicly available. yes, there was a 03:33:39.200 --> 03:33:42.200 typo that's being fixed. one the 03:33:42.319 --> 03:33:44.936 question on the numbers. Yes, they were 03:33:44.960 --> 03:33:47.960 those early numbers were engineering 03:33:48.560 --> 03:33:50.136 um 03:33:50.160 --> 03:33:52.136 numbers but now they've been 03:33:52.160 --> 03:33:55.160 reflected to updated to reflect iPart 03:33:55.200 --> 03:33:58.200 benchmarks as they should be. early 03:33:58.640 --> 03:34:00.776 reports also didn't include land 03:34:00.800 --> 03:34:03.096 acquisition those early numbers hence 03:34:03.120 --> 03:34:05.335 why there is a change and there is land 03:34:05.359 --> 03:34:07.496 acquisition required to do some of these 03:34:07.520 --> 03:34:10.136 works. So all of these can be explained 03:34:10.160 --> 03:34:13.160 away and we don't need to 03:34:13.279 --> 03:34:15.415 run back to the owners group and get 03:34:15.439 --> 03:34:17.576 permission when we've got professional 03:34:17.600 --> 03:34:20.600 staff who have done numbers based on 03:34:21.920 --> 03:34:24.856 what iPart requires based on experience 03:34:24.880 --> 03:34:26.856 of what's happened and successfully 03:34:26.880 --> 03:34:29.880 happened in Westaptodo I might add and 03:34:30.080 --> 03:34:31.976 by doing this we're only delaying it 03:34:32.000 --> 03:34:34.776 further. So by just proceeding to public 03:34:34.800 --> 03:34:37.800 exhibition and carrying out the 03:34:37.840 --> 03:34:40.616 actions as we should be by our 03:34:40.640 --> 03:34:43.176 professional staff then we aren't 03:34:43.200 --> 03:34:44.536 delaying we're actually getting on with 03:34:44.560 --> 03:34:47.560 it. So if people have questions they 03:34:48.239 --> 03:34:50.295 should have raised those following the 03:34:50.319 --> 03:34:51.976 the public forum and had those 03:34:52.000 --> 03:34:53.896 satisfactorily answered. We will get a 03:34:53.920 --> 03:34:55.976 final report back as is listed in the 03:34:56.000 --> 03:34:59.000 recommendation and the independent 03:34:59.120 --> 03:35:02.056 assessment is what iPart does. So I I 03:35:02.080 --> 03:35:05.080 strongly foreshadow the original 03:35:05.200 --> 03:35:08.136 recommendation and encourage councilors 03:35:08.160 --> 03:35:10.696 to continue the course and support the 03:35:10.720 --> 03:35:13.720 recommendation as printed by staff. 03:35:14.160 --> 03:35:17.160 All right, councelor Norris. 03:35:18.239 --> 03:35:20.056 Before I begin, um I would love to 03:35:20.080 --> 03:35:22.455 second the foreshadowing of that 03:35:22.479 --> 03:35:24.696 original motion as printed. Um question 03:35:24.720 --> 03:35:27.016 before I begin my commentary. Um, how 03:35:27.040 --> 03:35:29.016 many times have staff sat down with the 03:35:29.040 --> 03:35:31.415 Mosfal Road North owners group and tried 03:35:31.439 --> 03:35:34.439 to get this sorted? 03:35:34.479 --> 03:35:37.479 Um, I will, um, , defer to the 03:35:38.800 --> 03:35:41.496 director of city development, but it's 03:35:41.520 --> 03:35:44.520 over 12 months and, 03:35:45.120 --> 03:35:48.120 um, I have some concerns that even if I, 03:35:50.640 --> 03:35:52.455 , went back to address the technical 03:35:52.479 --> 03:35:53.736 concerns, I wouldn't be able to resolve 03:35:53.760 --> 03:35:55.896 them. Um I mean one of the reasons that 03:35:55.920 --> 03:35:58.056 we needed to go to iPart is ultimately 03:35:58.080 --> 03:36:01.080 for iPart to to assist in that process 03:36:01.359 --> 03:36:04.359 as they should. Um but I mean 03:36:06.880 --> 03:36:09.576 director um Strauss will be able to tell 03:36:09.600 --> 03:36:11.496 you it's it's gone on for over 12 03:36:11.520 --> 03:36:13.576 months. 03:36:13.600 --> 03:36:15.816 Director Strauss. Thank you. 03:36:15.840 --> 03:36:18.696 Thanks CEO. Yeah, that's correct. So my 03:36:18.720 --> 03:36:20.455 understanding is and it predates me 03:36:20.479 --> 03:36:21.896 there's been many conversations 03:36:21.920 --> 03:36:24.920 happening over at least the last year um 03:36:25.120 --> 03:36:26.536 the conversations with the owners own 03:36:26.560 --> 03:36:28.215 owners groups were happening around both 03:36:28.239 --> 03:36:30.295 the development control plan amendments 03:36:30.319 --> 03:36:33.096 as well as the um the contributions and 03:36:33.120 --> 03:36:35.016 the infrastructure list. 03:36:35.040 --> 03:36:37.415 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you director and 03:36:37.439 --> 03:36:39.896 thank you CEO. This thing predates me 03:36:39.920 --> 03:36:41.816 being in this room. So that goes back a 03:36:41.840 --> 03:36:44.536 fair while now. Can we please not delay 03:36:44.560 --> 03:36:47.560 this any longer? Can we please either 03:36:47.680 --> 03:36:49.736 move the original motion or just go with 03:36:49.760 --> 03:36:51.176 the foreshadow? We need to get this 03:36:51.200 --> 03:36:52.776 across the line. Let's get our part to 03:36:52.800 --> 03:36:54.536 the table. Let's get this sorted out and 03:36:54.560 --> 03:36:57.176 let's get Moss Road North happening. 03:36:57.200 --> 03:37:00.200 Thank you. Any further speakers? 03:37:02.399 --> 03:37:04.776 No further speakers. 03:37:04.800 --> 03:37:07.496 Right of reply. Council Casmir. 03:37:07.520 --> 03:37:08.936 Oh, thank you. Thank you again, Madame 03:37:08.960 --> 03:37:10.616 May. 03:37:10.640 --> 03:37:13.640 I guess that um 03:37:13.760 --> 03:37:16.616 probably I'm not been very clear. I'm 03:37:16.640 --> 03:37:19.640 trying to mitigate the delay 03:37:19.680 --> 03:37:22.215 the housing delivery while the 03:37:22.239 --> 03:37:25.176 contribution plan is finalized. 03:37:25.200 --> 03:37:28.200 What is wrong with making sure that we 03:37:28.560 --> 03:37:30.375 are sure? 03:37:30.399 --> 03:37:32.936 I mean would you like me to go back to 03:37:32.960 --> 03:37:34.936 26.95? 03:37:34.960 --> 03:37:36.776 We spend millions of dollars in legal 03:37:36.800 --> 03:37:39.176 advice, millions of dollars in 03:37:39.200 --> 03:37:41.976 consultant advice, and now all I'm 03:37:42.000 --> 03:37:44.696 asking is can we please get around the 03:37:44.720 --> 03:37:47.335 table to the land owners, get us sorted 03:37:47.359 --> 03:37:49.496 and move on. I'm not asking to stop 03:37:49.520 --> 03:37:52.295 anything. All I'm asking is can we 03:37:52.319 --> 03:37:55.176 please be sure that we are sure 03:37:55.200 --> 03:37:58.200 regardless what people's opinions are 03:37:58.640 --> 03:38:01.255 and regardless what the feedback I'm 03:38:01.279 --> 03:38:04.279 getting from people that in my opinion 03:38:06.080 --> 03:38:07.976 are saying what they believe is correct 03:38:08.000 --> 03:38:10.295 and your staff are saying it is correct. 03:38:10.319 --> 03:38:13.319 All I'm asking for please sit around the 03:38:13.359 --> 03:38:16.359 table sort it out so we can move on. 03:38:16.479 --> 03:38:18.215 Thank you. 03:38:18.239 --> 03:38:21.239 Before 03:38:24.000 --> 03:38:26.616 I put it to a vote to the councilors, um 03:38:26.640 --> 03:38:29.640 I'm just going to refer to governance to 03:38:29.760 --> 03:38:32.760 um re to advise us what the changes 03:38:33.520 --> 03:38:36.520 to the recommendation 03:38:37.359 --> 03:38:38.616 for you. Madame Mayor, I just want to 03:38:38.640 --> 03:38:40.375 bring the council's attention to the new 03:38:40.399 --> 03:38:42.295 requirements that started as of one 03:38:42.319 --> 03:38:44.295 January this year with respect to 03:38:44.319 --> 03:38:46.856 planning decisions of the council which 03:38:46.880 --> 03:38:49.415 vary the recommendations put forward by 03:38:49.439 --> 03:38:51.576 staff. And the new requirement under 03:38:51.600 --> 03:38:53.656 section 11.9 of the code of meeting 03:38:53.680 --> 03:38:55.816 practice says that where council decides 03:38:55.840 --> 03:38:58.536 to resolve in a manner which is um not 03:38:58.560 --> 03:38:59.656 in accordance with the staff 03:38:59.680 --> 03:39:01.335 recommendation, it clearly needs to 03:39:01.359 --> 03:39:03.656 state the reason why it is not accepting 03:39:03.680 --> 03:39:05.976 the recommendation of staff. So that 03:39:06.000 --> 03:39:07.255 will need to be included in the 03:39:07.279 --> 03:39:09.736 resolution before council puts this 03:39:09.760 --> 03:39:12.760 matter to the vote. 03:39:14.800 --> 03:39:17.800 So councelor Casmary, do you have a a a 03:39:18.640 --> 03:39:20.936 um 03:39:20.960 --> 03:39:23.656 to advice why you're not Yeah. What is 03:39:23.680 --> 03:39:25.976 to why you're not taking the staff? The 03:39:26.000 --> 03:39:28.455 reason is because based on the 03:39:28.479 --> 03:39:30.936 deputation, based on information 03:39:30.960 --> 03:39:33.736 provided to us as late as this 03:39:33.760 --> 03:39:35.255 afternoon, 03:39:35.279 --> 03:39:38.279 I believe that we need to reassess the 03:39:40.239 --> 03:39:41.976 final 03:39:42.000 --> 03:39:43.736 the developer contribution for this 03:39:43.760 --> 03:39:45.576 project before we go out to public 03:39:45.600 --> 03:39:48.056 exhibition. That's my reason. 03:39:48.080 --> 03:39:50.295 So, what information are you talking 03:39:50.319 --> 03:39:52.215 about in relation to that was received 03:39:52.239 --> 03:39:53.736 today? 03:39:53.760 --> 03:39:56.295 Well, we've had several emails including 03:39:56.319 --> 03:39:59.319 as I said at ladies this afternoon from 03:39:59.520 --> 03:40:01.976 the owner's group and we had a 03:40:02.000 --> 03:40:04.056 deputation or actually we've had more 03:40:04.080 --> 03:40:06.375 than one reputation from the group 03:40:06.399 --> 03:40:08.936 expressing their concern about the not 03:40:08.960 --> 03:40:11.415 equality or the differences in the 03:40:11.439 --> 03:40:13.415 dollar terms or andor the technical 03:40:13.439 --> 03:40:16.136 terms and or on the wetlands or or 03:40:16.160 --> 03:40:18.536 whatever that that's my reason my reason 03:40:18.560 --> 03:40:21.560 is I want to make sure that we are sure 03:40:21.680 --> 03:40:24.056 that what we are doing is 100% correct 03:40:24.080 --> 03:40:26.136 before we got to public exhibition. 03:40:26.160 --> 03:40:27.335 That's all I'm saying. 03:40:27.359 --> 03:40:27.736 Right. 03:40:27.760 --> 03:40:30.536 Is that sufficient? 03:40:30.560 --> 03:40:32.215 Thank you. 03:40:32.239 --> 03:40:34.375 All right. So, I'll put it to the vote. 03:40:34.399 --> 03:40:36.455 I'm not sure if all counselors have seen 03:40:36.479 --> 03:40:38.295 those emails that came in late this 03:40:38.319 --> 03:40:41.319 afternoon. Um so, um those wishing to 03:40:42.640 --> 03:40:44.856 vote against the recommendation as 03:40:44.880 --> 03:40:47.496 printed on the screen. No, on the 03:40:47.520 --> 03:40:49.896 screen. So, the changed one, vote 03:40:49.920 --> 03:40:52.920 against. So that's councelor Casmi, 03:40:53.040 --> 03:40:55.816 sorry, councelor Crystalardis, councelor 03:40:55.840 --> 03:40:58.840 Norris, councelor Clancy, councelor 03:40:59.359 --> 03:41:02.359 Boyd, Councelor um Killian, it's getting 03:41:03.600 --> 03:41:06.600 late. Councelor Tribe, Councelor Steele, 03:41:07.120 --> 03:41:09.576 and Councelor Dunn, those wishing to 03:41:09.600 --> 03:41:11.896 vote for the recommendation. Councelor 03:41:11.920 --> 03:41:14.136 Casmir, Councelor Wilkins, Councelor 03:41:14.160 --> 03:41:15.656 Proudfoot, 03:41:15.680 --> 03:41:17.496 Councelor Kemp, which way are you 03:41:17.520 --> 03:41:19.576 voting? 03:41:19.600 --> 03:41:21.176 You're right, sir. Councelor Kemp and 03:41:21.200 --> 03:41:23.415 Councelor White. So I declare that 03:41:23.439 --> 03:41:26.439 recommendation is lost. we will then 03:41:26.640 --> 03:41:28.856 move to councelor Tribe for the 03:41:28.880 --> 03:41:31.576 foreshadow and a seconded by councelor 03:41:31.600 --> 03:41:33.896 Norris. So that is as is printed on the 03:41:33.920 --> 03:41:36.295 paper. Um I don't think that we need to 03:41:36.319 --> 03:41:38.616 have any further debate. Um so I'm going 03:41:38.640 --> 03:41:41.496 to put that recommendation. those 03:41:41.520 --> 03:41:43.656 wishing to vote for the recommendation 03:41:43.680 --> 03:41:46.136 is printed in the paper. So, councelor 03:41:46.160 --> 03:41:48.215 Crystal Lighters, Councelor Norris, 03:41:48.239 --> 03:41:50.056 Council Clancy, Councelor Boyd, 03:41:50.080 --> 03:41:53.080 Councelor Killian, Councelor Tribe, 03:41:53.520 --> 03:41:56.455 Councelor Steele. Those wishing to vote 03:41:56.479 --> 03:41:59.479 against will be 03:42:00.319 --> 03:42:02.936 so against, oh, and sorry, Councelor 03:42:02.960 --> 03:42:05.960 Dunn. Those wishing to vote against the 03:42:06.080 --> 03:42:07.736 recommendation, councelor Casmir, 03:42:07.760 --> 03:42:10.760 Councelor Wilkins, Councelor Kemp, 03:42:11.040 --> 03:42:12.616 Councelor Proudfoot, and Councelor 03:42:12.640 --> 03:42:15.576 White. I declare that recommendation as 03:42:15.600 --> 03:42:18.600 printed carried. So we will then move on 03:42:19.920 --> 03:42:22.776 to the next U matter which is again with 03:42:22.800 --> 03:42:25.800 council Casmary which is CL 2612 03:42:27.600 --> 03:42:30.600 which is the review of the car parking. 03:42:31.840 --> 03:42:34.840 , thank you again, Madame May. 03:42:36.479 --> 03:42:39.479 I I like to I'd like to say that 03:42:42.080 --> 03:42:43.976 when I joined the shall have an 03:42:44.000 --> 03:42:47.000 independent group, I was hoping that 03:42:47.840 --> 03:42:49.736 can I just 03:42:49.760 --> 03:42:52.455 see which what the recommendation is 03:42:52.479 --> 03:42:54.455 first and get a second to your 03:42:54.479 --> 03:42:55.415 recommendation? 03:42:55.439 --> 03:42:58.439 I am I'm putting forward our recommend I 03:42:58.640 --> 03:43:00.056 change to the recommendation. 03:43:00.080 --> 03:43:01.736 Right. So, can we have that on the 03:43:01.760 --> 03:43:03.096 screen, please? Thank you. 03:43:03.120 --> 03:43:04.616 On the screen. 03:43:04.640 --> 03:43:06.295 Yep. 03:43:06.319 --> 03:43:09.319 And do I have a seconder for what is on 03:43:09.359 --> 03:43:11.496 the screen? So, it's to receive this 03:43:11.520 --> 03:43:13.736 report for information, implement the 03:43:13.760 --> 03:43:16.760 recommendation as per minute 26.63 03:43:18.720 --> 03:43:21.255 excluding point4 and we need to put the 03:43:21.279 --> 03:43:22.856 planning reasons in why you're changing 03:43:22.880 --> 03:43:23.976 it. Correct. 03:43:24.000 --> 03:43:26.616 So, 03:43:26.640 --> 03:43:29.175 so are you second council Steele? So it's 03:43:29.199 --> 03:43:30.215 been certain council 03:43:30.239 --> 03:43:31.816 when I joined the shavan independence 03:43:31.840 --> 03:43:33.976 group I was hoping that maybe I might be 03:43:34.000 --> 03:43:36.696 elected as a council 03:43:36.720 --> 03:43:39.096 and I thought that 03:43:39.120 --> 03:43:41.016 based on my background in civil 03:43:41.040 --> 03:43:42.536 engineering and my experience in 03:43:42.560 --> 03:43:45.096 business in Australia I would be able to 03:43:45.120 --> 03:43:48.120 make some form of a contribution about 03:43:48.800 --> 03:43:51.800 somehow getting the Shoalhaven 03:43:53.439 --> 03:43:55.976 building a homes getting moving again in 03:43:56.000 --> 03:43:57.736 some form 03:43:57.760 --> 03:44:00.760 But what what I'm finding and I hate to 03:44:02.160 --> 03:44:04.375 use the word frustrating but almost I 03:44:04.399 --> 03:44:07.399 know him is that I almost have to 03:44:07.920 --> 03:44:09.415 apologize for it. I'm making no 03:44:09.439 --> 03:44:11.496 apologies for it. That's what I'm here 03:44:11.520 --> 03:44:14.520 for. So just let's go and understand 03:44:15.920 --> 03:44:18.616 where we're at. Council does not build 03:44:18.640 --> 03:44:20.856 homes. 03:44:20.880 --> 03:44:23.255 Builders, developers, people that take 03:44:23.279 --> 03:44:26.215 risk build homes for people in Shaga. 03:44:26.239 --> 03:44:27.816 Council 03:44:27.840 --> 03:44:30.295 is here to facilitate development. So, 03:44:30.319 --> 03:44:33.096 we're here to make sure that we can get 03:44:33.120 --> 03:44:36.120 as much as possible done. Council does 03:44:36.239 --> 03:44:38.776 not have the control about the cost of 03:44:38.800 --> 03:44:41.800 materials or the cost of labor. 03:44:42.640 --> 03:44:45.640 But council has a very important role to 03:44:46.399 --> 03:44:49.399 play to how we can make 03:44:50.319 --> 03:44:53.175 houses less cost. I won't use the word 03:44:53.199 --> 03:44:55.496 affordable, less cost. 03:44:55.520 --> 03:44:58.520 But I found it bizarre that back in 03:44:58.960 --> 03:45:00.776 2024, 03:45:00.800 --> 03:45:03.800 the council of the day decided to change 03:45:04.319 --> 03:45:07.319 the DCP to make homes more expensive to 03:45:08.560 --> 03:45:11.096 build. Now, for those that don't get it, 03:45:11.120 --> 03:45:13.736 I'm going to explain it very simply. If 03:45:13.760 --> 03:45:15.896 you buy a block of land for a million 03:45:15.920 --> 03:45:18.696 dollars and you can only put two houses 03:45:18.720 --> 03:45:21.720 on it because the DCP restriction, the 03:45:22.080 --> 03:45:25.080 cost of the land is 500,000 per house. 03:45:26.399 --> 03:45:29.399 If I can have a DCP like in 2024 when I 03:45:30.479 --> 03:45:32.776 can put three or maybe four houses on 03:45:32.800 --> 03:45:35.800 that block of land. Now the cost of land 03:45:35.920 --> 03:45:38.920 for that house is $250,000. 03:45:38.960 --> 03:45:41.496 So, it makes a $250,000 03:45:41.520 --> 03:45:43.496 different to someone that may buyer 03:45:43.520 --> 03:45:45.175 might not be able to buy that house. And 03:45:45.199 --> 03:45:47.175 for some people, that's a big lot of 03:45:47.199 --> 03:45:49.816 money. But no, we went ahead and changed 03:45:49.840 --> 03:45:52.536 the DCP for reasons that I still do not 03:45:52.560 --> 03:45:55.415 understand. At a time where we got 03:45:55.439 --> 03:45:57.576 homeless people, people sleeping in the 03:45:57.600 --> 03:45:59.816 street, people covering houses. But no, 03:45:59.840 --> 03:46:02.696 this council decided, let's go for it, 03:46:02.720 --> 03:46:05.720 mate. Let's stuff it up. And we did. Now 03:46:07.680 --> 03:46:10.680 I put forward in the last meeting 03:46:11.199 --> 03:46:14.199 a resolution to go back to the 2024 DCP 03:46:15.520 --> 03:46:18.295 as it was. 03:46:18.319 --> 03:46:20.136 I thank very much staff for the very 03:46:20.160 --> 03:46:23.160 comprehensive report we got today but 03:46:23.840 --> 03:46:26.840 that's not what I've asked for. However, 03:46:27.600 --> 03:46:30.600 I do recall that councelor Prefoot in 03:46:31.040 --> 03:46:33.335 the Pratfordoot with a right intention 03:46:33.359 --> 03:46:35.415 suggested that we should have an go back 03:46:35.439 --> 03:46:37.175 to stuff and some feedback from the 03:46:37.199 --> 03:46:39.976 staff and that is why I'm saying I want 03:46:40.000 --> 03:46:42.375 to go back to 03:46:42.399 --> 03:46:45.399 the B 2612 03:46:46.640 --> 03:46:49.640 as it was and remove 03:46:49.680 --> 03:46:52.295 4 which was the referring back to stuff. 03:46:52.319 --> 03:46:55.255 What I'm asking is the motion was about 03:46:55.279 --> 03:46:58.279 going back to 2024. 03:46:58.319 --> 03:47:00.536 That's what it was. There was no ifs of 03:47:00.560 --> 03:47:03.415 buts. Okay. 03:47:03.439 --> 03:47:06.136 Here today, what I've got in front of me 03:47:06.160 --> 03:47:09.160 is not what I've asked for. Therefore, 03:47:10.880 --> 03:47:13.880 I'm once again 03:47:14.000 --> 03:47:15.896 putting forward a change to the 03:47:15.920 --> 03:47:17.656 recommendation stating that we've 03:47:17.680 --> 03:47:20.680 received this report for information 03:47:21.120 --> 03:47:24.120 only and implement what was recommended 03:47:25.279 --> 03:47:27.736 in 26.63 03:47:27.760 --> 03:47:30.760 excluding point 4 which is going back to 03:47:32.399 --> 03:47:35.399 the 2024 DCP. 03:47:35.840 --> 03:47:38.840 simple and whatever process it takes 03:47:39.520 --> 03:47:41.576 consultation whatever it takes I don't 03:47:41.600 --> 03:47:44.536 care that was my motion was about and 03:47:44.560 --> 03:47:47.415 I'm and unless I'm missing something 03:47:47.439 --> 03:47:50.439 that's not what 26112 is about 03:47:52.319 --> 03:47:53.656 thank you 03:47:53.680 --> 03:47:56.215 why what are your reasons for the 03:47:56.239 --> 03:47:58.056 decision not to accept the staff 03:47:58.080 --> 03:48:00.936 recommendation 03:48:00.960 --> 03:48:03.960 councelor Casmiri 03:48:04.000 --> 03:48:05.496 councelor Casmiri 03:48:05.520 --> 03:48:06.215 Madam, 03:48:06.239 --> 03:48:08.936 what are your what are the reasons for 03:48:08.960 --> 03:48:11.175 your decision not to accept the staff 03:48:11.199 --> 03:48:14.199 recommendation? 03:48:14.479 --> 03:48:16.856 because this report 03:48:16.880 --> 03:48:18.936 does not address 03:48:18.960 --> 03:48:21.175 what my 03:48:21.199 --> 03:48:24.199 motion was which was resolved 03:48:24.239 --> 03:48:27.239 on the day and because 03:48:27.439 --> 03:48:30.439 this report does not fulfill what I 03:48:32.720 --> 03:48:35.175 believe was the intention of that motion 03:48:35.199 --> 03:48:38.199 to go back to the 2024 discipline. 03:48:39.439 --> 03:48:42.439 All right. So that's recorded. So, 03:48:42.960 --> 03:48:45.896 councelor Tribe. 03:48:45.920 --> 03:48:47.496 Yeah, Madame Mayor. I speak against the 03:48:47.520 --> 03:48:49.415 motion that's printed on the screen and 03:48:49.439 --> 03:48:51.896 foreshadow the recommendation printed. 03:48:51.920 --> 03:48:54.136 Um, initially, 03:48:54.160 --> 03:48:56.936 , I was concerned about this based on 03:48:56.960 --> 03:48:59.736 the fact that we had agreed in no 03:48:59.760 --> 03:49:02.136 significant new work as we're focused on 03:49:02.160 --> 03:49:05.160 the LAP. and also that this was a 03:49:06.720 --> 03:49:09.415 fairly recent update that came in 03:49:09.439 --> 03:49:12.295 unopposed and no adverse feedback 03:49:12.319 --> 03:49:13.496 from the community when it was 03:49:13.520 --> 03:49:16.520 introduced. Um but also more 03:49:16.560 --> 03:49:19.096 specifically to what was proposed, I had 03:49:19.120 --> 03:49:21.736 concerns because we are such a car 03:49:21.760 --> 03:49:24.696 dependent economy. but what I find 03:49:24.720 --> 03:49:27.255 really interesting in this report is 03:49:27.279 --> 03:49:29.496 what has been outlined as what the 03:49:29.520 --> 03:49:32.056 actual barriers are and how staff have 03:49:32.080 --> 03:49:33.976 identified that loosening up parking and 03:49:34.000 --> 03:49:36.215 landscaping restrictions would not have 03:49:36.239 --> 03:49:38.375 a material effect. And this is based on 03:49:38.399 --> 03:49:40.375 actual evidence of what's coming in and 03:49:40.399 --> 03:49:42.375 what they're seeing and how flexible 03:49:42.399 --> 03:49:44.295 they actually are on those things when 03:49:44.319 --> 03:49:46.056 appropriate in circumstances. I find 03:49:46.080 --> 03:49:49.080 that really really interesting. I I 03:49:49.760 --> 03:49:52.760 do note councelor Casmir's concerns 03:49:52.960 --> 03:49:54.936 about homeless population and he has 03:49:54.960 --> 03:49:56.776 raised that and I and I commend him for 03:49:56.800 --> 03:49:59.255 that and I'm really excited to see the 03:49:59.279 --> 03:50:01.175 the work that we're doing in terms of 03:50:01.199 --> 03:50:03.415 new meeting our targets for new 03:50:03.439 --> 03:50:05.816 dwellings and those being 03:50:05.840 --> 03:50:08.840 appropriately designed. but as 03:50:10.160 --> 03:50:11.896 for all of those reasons I've outlined, 03:50:11.920 --> 03:50:14.295 I I can't support what he's put 03:50:14.319 --> 03:50:16.776 forward and I do support council staff's 03:50:16.800 --> 03:50:19.496 recommendation that's that's printed. 03:50:19.520 --> 03:50:21.976 I I think we need to be really careful 03:50:22.000 --> 03:50:23.656 about the city that we designed for the 03:50:23.680 --> 03:50:25.576 future that we don't want to look like 03:50:25.600 --> 03:50:28.295 Paramea and we have our own unique 03:50:28.319 --> 03:50:29.415 identity. 03:50:29.439 --> 03:50:31.576 So are you foreshadowing the motion 03:50:31.600 --> 03:50:33.255 printed? Thank you councelor 03:50:33.279 --> 03:50:36.279 crystallize. Um this is I'm going to 03:50:37.680 --> 03:50:39.736 once again really brief noting the time 03:50:39.760 --> 03:50:42.760 but just the reading through the risk 03:50:42.800 --> 03:50:45.415 implications is every reason to accept 03:50:45.439 --> 03:50:47.976 the foreshadowed motion and not the 03:50:48.000 --> 03:50:50.455 amendment or not the what's being 03:50:50.479 --> 03:50:53.479 proposed here. The amendments resulted 03:50:53.680 --> 03:50:56.215 from 11 month period and exhibited to 03:50:56.239 --> 03:50:57.656 the community provide the opportunity to 03:50:57.680 --> 03:50:59.576 review this review the proposed 03:50:59.600 --> 03:51:01.096 controls. 03:51:01.120 --> 03:51:02.696 Any 03:51:02.720 --> 03:51:04.696 we don't have time to fully assess 03:51:04.720 --> 03:51:06.936 the impacts without clear evidence-based 03:51:06.960 --> 03:51:09.096 research which may erode public trust in 03:51:09.120 --> 03:51:12.120 community participation process because 03:51:12.160 --> 03:51:13.736 we're trying to pass things almost on 03:51:13.760 --> 03:51:16.375 the run take us backwards to where we 03:51:16.399 --> 03:51:18.776 were and not forward to well essentially 03:51:18.800 --> 03:51:20.776 where we are now and can move forward. 03:51:20.800 --> 03:51:23.736 doesn't incorporate or look at the SCP 03:51:23.760 --> 03:51:25.816 which is a state government requirement. 03:51:25.840 --> 03:51:28.375 any reduction in physical landscape 03:51:28.399 --> 03:51:30.136 areas that can sustain trees and plants 03:51:30.160 --> 03:51:31.415 may be inconsistent with the 03:51:31.439 --> 03:51:34.439 government's urban can canopy targets. 03:51:34.479 --> 03:51:36.375 The there's no certainty the amendments 03:51:36.399 --> 03:51:37.896 will as resolved will lead to more 03:51:37.920 --> 03:51:40.056 affordable housing. So yes, people are 03:51:40.080 --> 03:51:42.856 homeless. I agree. But will it add 03:51:42.880 --> 03:51:45.880 stock? Probably not. The result changes 03:51:46.080 --> 03:51:48.375 also apply as relevant throughout the 03:51:48.399 --> 03:51:49.976 city where medium density forms of 03:51:50.000 --> 03:51:52.056 development are permissible and not just 03:51:52.080 --> 03:51:54.295 in around town centers for example or 03:51:54.319 --> 03:51:55.976 the due occupies. you can read it here 03:51:56.000 --> 03:51:58.056 yourself and I hope you really I really 03:51:58.080 --> 03:52:00.536 really hope you have this is 03:52:00.560 --> 03:52:02.455 important work and the same and I 03:52:02.479 --> 03:52:05.335 commend the staff for this really 03:52:05.359 --> 03:52:08.359 detailed report as it should be by 03:52:08.560 --> 03:52:11.255 section 4 and we can't be driving the 03:52:11.279 --> 03:52:13.656 place backwards to make more money 03:52:13.680 --> 03:52:16.136 for developers. Thank you. 03:52:16.160 --> 03:52:19.096 So any further speakers if council 03:52:19.120 --> 03:52:21.896 proudoot 03:52:21.920 --> 03:52:24.920 what councelor Casmir is saying that 03:52:25.439 --> 03:52:28.439 that we resolved on the 4th of March 03:52:30.720 --> 03:52:33.175 to go back to 03:52:33.199 --> 03:52:35.255 effectively essentially the the 03:52:35.279 --> 03:52:38.056 information that was included in a 03:52:38.080 --> 03:52:41.080 previous DCP. 03:52:41.120 --> 03:52:42.536 That's that's all he's saying that and 03:52:42.560 --> 03:52:45.016 that previous DCP is no doubt would have 03:52:45.040 --> 03:52:48.040 been supported by councils of the day 03:52:48.319 --> 03:52:51.319 and and staff members. 03:52:51.439 --> 03:52:54.439 I refer you to a development at 03:52:55.520 --> 03:52:57.096 Sanctuary Point opposite the service 03:52:57.120 --> 03:53:00.120 station and the the residents at 03:53:00.160 --> 03:53:02.295 Sanctuary Point were horrified because 03:53:02.319 --> 03:53:03.496 there was all these little they call 03:53:03.520 --> 03:53:06.520 them tiny homes on this development and 03:53:06.960 --> 03:53:08.215 they said that's terrible. That'll be 03:53:08.239 --> 03:53:10.215 slums and you you're going to get 03:53:10.239 --> 03:53:12.136 undesirabs in all the rest of it. Well, 03:53:12.160 --> 03:53:14.215 it just didn't happen. 03:53:14.239 --> 03:53:16.295 It just didn't happen. Now, this is not 03:53:16.319 --> 03:53:18.375 saying that we we we do that right 03:53:18.399 --> 03:53:19.976 through the city. 03:53:20.000 --> 03:53:23.000 It's saying that we increase densities 03:53:23.680 --> 03:53:26.680 to bring down the cost unit cost of land 03:53:27.520 --> 03:53:30.215 to allow people to get into a home. 03:53:30.239 --> 03:53:32.536 We're not saying build slums. We're not 03:53:32.560 --> 03:53:35.016 saying this will be another parameter. 03:53:35.040 --> 03:53:37.255 In fact, there some very nice homes have 03:53:37.279 --> 03:53:40.279 a parameter. U it's not saying that. 03:53:40.960 --> 03:53:43.960 It's just saying let's return to a DCP 03:53:44.479 --> 03:53:47.175 that has a greater density and so that 03:53:47.199 --> 03:53:50.199 we can get units prices down and and 03:53:51.439 --> 03:53:54.056 make a make it affordable so we do get 03:53:54.080 --> 03:53:55.496 developers say yeah I'll have a go at 03:53:55.520 --> 03:53:58.455 that at the moment the unit price of 03:53:58.479 --> 03:54:01.175 land is really knocking developers 03:54:01.199 --> 03:54:02.776 around 03:54:02.800 --> 03:54:04.696 it knocks them around they they it just 03:54:04.720 --> 03:54:05.976 doesn't stack up so they don't do 03:54:06.000 --> 03:54:07.656 anything 03:54:07.680 --> 03:54:10.295 and we don't want that and you can build 03:54:10.319 --> 03:54:13.319 very nice homes under that previous DCP 03:54:14.640 --> 03:54:16.776 by increasing the densities and pushing 03:54:16.800 --> 03:54:19.496 the prices down. And so that all 03:54:19.520 --> 03:54:21.496 councelor Kazmir is saying is that we 03:54:21.520 --> 03:54:24.520 already passed this mot 03:54:26.640 --> 03:54:28.936 to reject it and he's saying I don't 03:54:28.960 --> 03:54:30.616 want to reject it because this is what I 03:54:30.640 --> 03:54:32.536 want. That's all he's saying. Thanks 03:54:32.560 --> 03:54:33.415 madam. 03:54:33.439 --> 03:54:35.816 Any further speakers? 03:54:35.840 --> 03:54:38.056 Councelor Councelor Kemp and then 03:54:38.080 --> 03:54:39.496 councelor Norris and then I'll go to 03:54:39.520 --> 03:54:41.335 write a reply. Councelor, 03:54:41.359 --> 03:54:43.576 just something quick that I failed to 03:54:43.600 --> 03:54:46.375 understand. Um I don't understand how 03:54:46.399 --> 03:54:48.136 we're driving the place backwards to 03:54:48.160 --> 03:54:50.776 make more money for developers. When we 03:54:50.800 --> 03:54:52.776 develop something, 03:54:52.800 --> 03:54:55.415 aren't we building something? 03:54:55.439 --> 03:54:57.255 We're not just giving the developers the 03:54:57.279 --> 03:54:59.255 money and not getting anything for our 03:54:59.279 --> 03:55:01.576 money. We're actually getting homes, 03:55:01.600 --> 03:55:04.600 aren't we? So, how do you make more 03:55:04.880 --> 03:55:06.936 money for developers? You're actually 03:55:06.960 --> 03:55:09.656 engaging them to get something and the 03:55:09.680 --> 03:55:12.680 developers are paying the council. Um, 03:55:13.520 --> 03:55:15.736 yeah, I'm at a loss to understand that. 03:55:15.760 --> 03:55:16.936 Thank you, 03:55:16.960 --> 03:55:19.960 Council Norris. 03:55:20.399 --> 03:55:22.936 Um, by changing the DCP, you don't 03:55:22.960 --> 03:55:25.736 actually make land cheaper. By changing 03:55:25.760 --> 03:55:27.736 this and increasing density, you don't 03:55:27.760 --> 03:55:29.255 make land cheaper. It's still going to 03:55:29.279 --> 03:55:30.776 be as expensive as it is. It's still 03:55:30.800 --> 03:55:32.616 going to be unaffordable. It's just that 03:55:32.640 --> 03:55:33.656 you're going to be able to fit more 03:55:33.680 --> 03:55:35.656 boxes on that unaffordable land to get 03:55:35.680 --> 03:55:38.215 more money out of it. So please, I've 03:55:38.239 --> 03:55:39.976 second foreshadow. Please go with the 03:55:40.000 --> 03:55:41.576 foreshadow because that is the way how 03:55:41.600 --> 03:55:43.255 we're actually giving Shoalhaven the 03:55:43.279 --> 03:55:46.279 Shoalhavenness of it and keeping the 03:55:46.479 --> 03:55:48.455 essential character that we have in this 03:55:48.479 --> 03:55:51.096 community. I don't live in Sydney cuz I 03:55:51.120 --> 03:55:52.455 don't want to live in Sydney. I don't 03:55:52.479 --> 03:55:54.536 want Sydney to be down here. That's why 03:55:54.560 --> 03:55:57.335 I live in the Shoalhaven. So let's 03:55:57.359 --> 03:55:59.415 please stick with the Shoalhavenness of 03:55:59.439 --> 03:56:02.439 it. and and keep this density that we 03:56:02.560 --> 03:56:05.560 have and not cram people in. Thank you. 03:56:07.040 --> 03:56:09.335 Thank you. So, I'll go back to councelor 03:56:09.359 --> 03:56:12.056 Casmir. Write a reply. 03:56:12.080 --> 03:56:15.080 Oh, yes. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Again, 03:56:16.399 --> 03:56:19.399 I guess it's very hard to explain when 03:56:20.640 --> 03:56:23.576 people don't really get it. And more 03:56:23.600 --> 03:56:26.600 more important so when we are talking 03:56:26.880 --> 03:56:29.880 about what we like now we're not going 03:56:30.080 --> 03:56:32.536 to live in them. Why don't we tell what 03:56:32.560 --> 03:56:35.175 we like to that family sleep in our car 03:56:35.199 --> 03:56:37.656 last night. Why don't we tell it what we 03:56:37.680 --> 03:56:39.576 like people then can't find a house to 03:56:39.600 --> 03:56:42.600 rent or can't afford one. So what we 03:56:42.880 --> 03:56:45.415 like is not relevant. It's what the 03:56:45.439 --> 03:56:47.816 community wants, what the people asking 03:56:47.840 --> 03:56:50.536 for. And I I must I must have missed 03:56:50.560 --> 03:56:52.856 something. But we we did not talk about 03:56:52.880 --> 03:56:54.936 affordable housing tonight. Wasn't even 03:56:54.960 --> 03:56:56.856 in the agenda. 03:56:56.880 --> 03:56:59.576 Not even talked about it. And here we 03:56:59.600 --> 03:57:02.375 are declaring that we must have houses 03:57:02.399 --> 03:57:05.399 with landscape and triple garages. M not 03:57:06.239 --> 03:57:08.856 everybody can afford it anymore. This is 03:57:08.880 --> 03:57:11.496 shall hive in 2026. 03:57:11.520 --> 03:57:14.136 People sleeping in cars. 03:57:14.160 --> 03:57:16.136 Don't you people read the stats? How 03:57:16.160 --> 03:57:18.375 many homeless people we got in this part 03:57:18.399 --> 03:57:20.616 of magic part of the world? It's a 03:57:20.640 --> 03:57:23.640 disgrace. And what are we talking about? 03:57:23.920 --> 03:57:25.816 Oh no. We can't go back to What do you 03:57:25.840 --> 03:57:27.335 mean we can't go back? We had a 03:57:27.359 --> 03:57:29.096 resolution. I thought when you had a 03:57:29.120 --> 03:57:30.616 counselor 03:57:30.640 --> 03:57:32.936 and you put a resolution 03:57:32.960 --> 03:57:35.960 and you vote for it's done. But no, 03:57:36.080 --> 03:57:38.215 apparently it's not anymore. 03:57:38.239 --> 03:57:39.736 Unbelievable. 03:57:39.760 --> 03:57:42.760 I I I'm I tell you 03:57:43.199 --> 03:57:46.199 this is absolutely nonsense. We need to 03:57:47.120 --> 03:57:48.776 go back to what 03:57:48.800 --> 03:57:51.736 Council Casmary, I will warn you on your 03:57:51.760 --> 03:57:54.696 language. Be careful what we're speaking 03:57:54.720 --> 03:57:56.696 about. 03:57:56.720 --> 03:57:59.720 It was working. My father always told me 03:57:59.920 --> 03:58:02.920 it's not broken. Don't bloody fix it. So 03:58:03.840 --> 03:58:06.840 all I'm asking is please counselors, we 03:58:07.680 --> 03:58:09.656 need to do the right thing for those 03:58:09.680 --> 03:58:12.056 people that can no longer afford to live 03:58:12.080 --> 03:58:15.080 in Shell Shoalhaven. Right. I I I look I'll 03:58:17.439 --> 03:58:20.439 be honest once again this is not a 03:58:20.720 --> 03:58:23.096 personal matter. However, I think I've 03:58:23.120 --> 03:58:24.536 got a little bit more experience than 03:58:24.560 --> 03:58:26.696 most people in this room about building 03:58:26.720 --> 03:58:28.776 houses, selling houses, renovating 03:58:28.800 --> 03:58:31.800 houses. And let me tell you right now, 03:58:32.319 --> 03:58:34.056 we are missing out on a great 03:58:34.080 --> 03:58:36.776 opportunity to provide a lot more homes 03:58:36.800 --> 03:58:39.800 at a lower cost for people that wish to 03:58:39.920 --> 03:58:41.976 live in this paradise of ours. Thank 03:58:42.000 --> 03:58:42.696 you. 03:58:42.720 --> 03:58:45.175 So I'll ask councilors what councilors 03:58:45.199 --> 03:58:47.255 wish to vote against. 03:58:47.279 --> 03:58:49.656 So councelor Crystal, councelor Norris, 03:58:49.680 --> 03:58:51.976 councelor Boyd, councelor Kian, councel 03:58:52.000 --> 03:58:54.455 tribe the balance voting favor. So 03:58:54.479 --> 03:58:56.856 that's councelor Clancy, councelor 03:58:56.880 --> 03:58:58.776 Casmir, councelor Wilkins, councelor 03:58:58.800 --> 03:59:01.016 proudoot, councelor Steele, councel kemp, 03:59:01.040 --> 03:59:03.736 councelor white. I declare that carried. 03:59:03.760 --> 03:59:05.976 Now councilors, I note that we only have 03:59:06.000 --> 03:59:09.000 half an hour left of the meeting. So I 03:59:09.439 --> 03:59:11.736 want to change the order of the meeting 03:59:11.760 --> 03:59:14.760 and I'll need need a mover and seconder. 03:59:14.880 --> 03:59:17.736 So I need to bring forward so we can get 03:59:17.760 --> 03:59:20.536 tendering matters and the confidentials 03:59:20.560 --> 03:59:22.295 out of the way and then we'll come back 03:59:22.319 --> 03:59:25.096 for the two other development issues. So 03:59:25.120 --> 03:59:28.120 I want to move forward CL 26118 03:59:29.120 --> 03:59:31.576 which is the exemption from tendering 03:59:31.600 --> 03:59:34.215 for Shoalhaven the MURF and the 03:59:34.239 --> 03:59:36.136 confidential. When we come out of 03:59:36.160 --> 03:59:38.375 confidential, we'll go back to the two 03:59:38.399 --> 03:59:40.776 remaining items on the paper, which are 03:59:40.800 --> 03:59:42.696 the development applications at Kangaroo 03:59:42.720 --> 03:59:45.720 Valley and the one at Figen Street. So, 03:59:46.560 --> 03:59:48.215 do I have a mover and second to move 03:59:48.239 --> 03:59:50.375 that way? Councelor Kemp, Councelor 03:59:50.399 --> 03:59:52.295 Steele. Do I have anybody wishing to vote 03:59:52.319 --> 03:59:54.375 against that procedure to change? 03:59:54.399 --> 03:59:57.175 Councelor Tribe. All right, the balance 03:59:57.199 --> 03:59:59.736 councelor Norris votes against um of the 03:59:59.760 --> 04:00:01.736 balance vote in favor. So we will now 04:00:01.760 --> 04:00:03.976 move to I declare that carried the 04:00:04.000 --> 04:00:05.496 procedure to change the order of 04:00:05.520 --> 04:00:08.520 business. So we'll go to CL 26118. 04:00:09.520 --> 04:00:12.375 I called that out myself. So there is a 04:00:12.399 --> 04:00:15.255 change to that recommendation that has 04:00:15.279 --> 04:00:18.279 been sent forward to CL minutes. 04:00:20.080 --> 04:00:23.080 Um and we also need to make 04:00:25.040 --> 04:00:27.496 um so 04:00:27.520 --> 04:00:29.175 sorry 04:00:29.199 --> 04:00:31.255 council director Buckman 04:00:31.279 --> 04:00:33.096 through you madame mayor the spelling 04:00:33.120 --> 04:00:34.455 error that was picked up in the business 04:00:34.479 --> 04:00:35.976 paper has already been amended in the 04:00:36.000 --> 04:00:37.576 version online that was done this 04:00:37.600 --> 04:00:38.536 afternoon 04:00:38.560 --> 04:00:41.016 right and didn't we make a change to the 04:00:41.040 --> 04:00:42.776 recommendation 04:00:42.800 --> 04:00:45.096 I'd have to check cuz I was away 04:00:45.120 --> 04:00:45.736 today 04:00:45.760 --> 04:00:48.056 were there any other alterations to the 04:00:48.080 --> 04:00:50.536 recommendation 04:00:50.560 --> 04:00:52.295 the recommendations with governance on 04:00:52.319 --> 04:00:53.656 the screen 04:00:53.680 --> 04:00:56.136 but the spelling error that made um that 04:00:56.160 --> 04:00:58.375 had contact instead of contract in 04:00:58.399 --> 04:00:59.736 the con in the body of the business 04:00:59.760 --> 04:01:01.255 paper has been amended in the version 04:01:01.279 --> 04:01:02.136 online 04:01:02.160 --> 04:01:05.160 right but the recommendation is as 04:01:05.520 --> 04:01:07.415 printed 04:01:07.439 --> 04:01:09.656 council Buckman the recommendation is as 04:01:09.680 --> 04:01:11.016 printed 04:01:11.040 --> 04:01:12.295 we got the alternate on the screen 04:01:12.319 --> 04:01:14.616 oh the alternate's on the screen sorry I 04:01:14.640 --> 04:01:17.640 can see it now um so the alter The 04:01:18.319 --> 04:01:21.319 recommendation that I'm um moving is 04:01:21.439 --> 04:01:23.016 that we approve the exemption of 04:01:23.040 --> 04:01:25.016 tendering in accordance with section 04:01:25.040 --> 04:01:28.040 5531 of the local government act. 04:01:28.080 --> 04:01:30.136 Authorize staff to enter negotiations 04:01:30.160 --> 04:01:32.696 and prepared contracts for the 04:01:32.720 --> 04:01:35.175 processing of the material from external 04:01:35.199 --> 04:01:37.255 parties to ShawShoalhaven material resource 04:01:37.279 --> 04:01:40.279 facility and approve the CEO or 04:01:40.720 --> 04:01:42.856 director of water to sign any agreement 04:01:42.880 --> 04:01:45.880 necessary to affect the resolution. So 04:01:46.800 --> 04:01:49.496 this sorry 04:01:49.520 --> 04:01:52.056 yep seconded by councelor tribe. So I'll 04:01:52.080 --> 04:01:54.136 just speak to it briefly. We needed to 04:01:54.160 --> 04:01:56.136 change the words in the res 04:01:56.160 --> 04:01:58.056 recommendation which was done this 04:01:58.080 --> 04:02:00.375 afternoon. Um because on the bottom of 04:02:00.399 --> 04:02:02.856 the page it talks about we needed to 04:02:02.880 --> 04:02:05.016 contact them not we needed to contract 04:02:05.040 --> 04:02:07.175 them. U makes a big difference to 04:02:07.199 --> 04:02:08.696 contact somebody or to give them a 04:02:08.720 --> 04:02:11.720 contract. Um and so this is allowing us 04:02:12.640 --> 04:02:15.255 to move forward with the murf to be able 04:02:15.279 --> 04:02:18.279 to receive waste from the other councils 04:02:18.319 --> 04:02:20.536 to process through the murf which will 04:02:20.560 --> 04:02:23.560 help with the um profitability etc of 04:02:23.600 --> 04:02:25.656 the murf. So this is what we're doing. 04:02:25.680 --> 04:02:28.616 So if it's council to council you can 04:02:28.640 --> 04:02:29.816 you don't need the need to have a 04:02:29.840 --> 04:02:32.840 tender. Um so is there anybody wishing 04:02:33.040 --> 04:02:35.096 to speak for or against the proposed 04:02:35.120 --> 04:02:38.120 recommendation? 04:02:38.640 --> 04:02:40.776 If not, I've got a mover and seconder. 04:02:40.800 --> 04:02:42.375 I'll put the recommendation those 04:02:42.399 --> 04:02:44.616 wishing to vote against. 04:02:44.640 --> 04:02:47.175 So, I declare that carried unanimously. 04:02:47.199 --> 04:02:49.656 Um, we will now I'll need a mover to 04:02:49.680 --> 04:02:51.736 move into confidential. 04:02:51.760 --> 04:02:54.760 So, councelor Wilkins, councelor Norris. 04:02:55.359 --> 04:02:58.359 Um, can we please um Oh, sorry. I'll put 04:02:58.560 --> 04:02:59.816 the vote. Anybody wishing to vote 04:02:59.840 --> 04:03:02.215 against going into confidential council 04:03:02.239 --> 04:03:05.239 tribe. Um, so, , the balance vote in 04:03:06.640 --> 04:03:09.335 favor. So we will go into confidential. 04:03:09.359 --> 04:03:12.359 Thank you. 04:03:16.000 --> 04:03:17.816 So just while we're waiting to get set 04:03:17.840 --> 04:03:20.455 up, um it has been a long meeting and I 04:03:20.479 --> 04:03:22.056 thank all counselors for their 04:03:22.080 --> 04:03:25.080 participation. 04:03:25.840 --> 04:03:28.840 So are we back on air? 04:03:29.520 --> 04:03:31.816 Yep, we are. So I'll go to you councelor 04:03:31.840 --> 04:03:34.840 Bradford. 04:03:36.319 --> 04:03:38.536 I get some 04:03:38.560 --> 04:03:41.096 comments from staff 04:03:41.120 --> 04:03:44.120 um to answer perhaps some of the the 04:03:45.279 --> 04:03:48.279 issues that were raised by the 04:03:48.319 --> 04:03:50.936 Sydney Bushw walkers I think they call 04:03:50.960 --> 04:03:53.960 them. um in particular the 04:03:55.680 --> 04:03:58.680 the water tank, the um engineering 04:03:59.600 --> 04:04:02.600 integrity of that tank to to support 04:04:04.160 --> 04:04:07.016 some of the activities that was 04:04:07.040 --> 04:04:10.040 listed in the report. 04:04:11.279 --> 04:04:14.215 I'm the people there in the near 04:04:14.239 --> 04:04:15.816 vicinity are certainly concerned about 04:04:15.840 --> 04:04:17.816 the hours of operation in particular 04:04:17.840 --> 04:04:20.840 when music is being played and 04:04:22.319 --> 04:04:25.319 I'd certainly like to if we finish up 04:04:26.479 --> 04:04:28.455 approving this certainly cut the hours 04:04:28.479 --> 04:04:31.479 of oper operation back but if I can get 04:04:31.600 --> 04:04:34.455 a comment on the integrity of the the 04:04:34.479 --> 04:04:36.616 water tank the lid on the tank to to 04:04:36.640 --> 04:04:38.616 support 04:04:38.640 --> 04:04:41.335 we have information that in fact 04:04:41.359 --> 04:04:44.359 It is fit for purpose 04:04:44.399 --> 04:04:45.896 through you madam chair. 04:04:45.920 --> 04:04:47.335 Yep. So are you moving your 04:04:47.359 --> 04:04:48.856 recommendation yet or you just want the 04:04:48.880 --> 04:04:49.415 questions? 04:04:49.439 --> 04:04:50.295 I just want to 04:04:50.319 --> 04:04:52.295 Yep. Clarification. Yep. I'll go to 04:04:52.319 --> 04:04:55.319 director 04:04:58.319 --> 04:05:00.375 question was about the structural 04:05:00.399 --> 04:05:02.375 integrity of the tank. 04:05:02.399 --> 04:05:03.576 The lid of the tank. Yeah. 04:05:03.600 --> 04:05:04.936 The lid of the tank. 04:05:04.960 --> 04:05:06.616 I'm going to refer to you Bruce. I know 04:05:06.640 --> 04:05:09.175 we've we've looked into this but yeah 04:05:09.199 --> 04:05:11.255 through you madame mayor the um the 04:05:11.279 --> 04:05:14.279 water tank was approved under a DA 04:05:14.800 --> 04:05:17.016 which was consider to the the 04:05:17.040 --> 04:05:20.040 dwelling about 4 years ago. Um it 04:05:20.960 --> 04:05:23.096 hasn't been relooked at in the context 04:05:23.120 --> 04:05:26.120 of this particular DA. structurally 04:05:26.560 --> 04:05:29.415 as far as we know that it is sound. Um 04:05:29.439 --> 04:05:32.439 but if councilors are concerned about 04:05:32.479 --> 04:05:35.096 that structural integrity um it is open 04:05:35.120 --> 04:05:38.120 for um councilors to put a condition. I 04:05:39.359 --> 04:05:41.175 can give you the wording requiring 04:05:41.199 --> 04:05:43.175 that there is a structural reports 04:05:43.199 --> 04:05:46.199 provided prior to the use commencing. 04:05:48.720 --> 04:05:51.720 Chanc 04:05:52.640 --> 04:05:55.640 on the the hours of operation. 04:05:56.239 --> 04:05:59.239 I personally would like to see them 04:05:59.439 --> 04:06:02.439 restricted to daylight hours, but 04:06:04.560 --> 04:06:07.560 if the staff are still of the view that 04:06:09.680 --> 04:06:11.496 this thing can go on until 10:00 at 04:06:11.520 --> 04:06:14.136 night, um 04:06:14.160 --> 04:06:17.160 the at that time I would suggest that 04:06:17.680 --> 04:06:19.736 the sound does travel and it would 04:06:19.760 --> 04:06:22.760 inconvenience nearby properties. 04:06:23.920 --> 04:06:25.896 Um 04:06:25.920 --> 04:06:28.536 so if I can get a comment on that from 04:06:28.560 --> 04:06:30.536 staff are they still strong that up till 04:06:30.560 --> 04:06:33.560 10:00 things could be managed without um 04:06:35.760 --> 04:06:37.896 having a I think the terms adverse 04:06:37.920 --> 04:06:39.816 impact which there's no particular 04:06:39.840 --> 04:06:42.616 definition of that I think the beauties 04:06:42.640 --> 04:06:43.976 in the eye of the beholder adverse 04:06:44.000 --> 04:06:47.000 impact but 04:06:47.199 --> 04:06:48.455 through you madam chair if we can get 04:06:48.479 --> 04:06:51.016 staff to comment on that 04:06:51.040 --> 04:06:54.040 I just need greater assurance 04:06:54.479 --> 04:06:57.479 would inconvenience the neighbors. 04:06:58.160 --> 04:07:00.856 Yeah. I mean, I suppose my my comments 04:07:00.880 --> 04:07:03.415 to that piece is we are assessing what 04:07:03.439 --> 04:07:05.415 was put in an application as well. So, 04:07:05.439 --> 04:07:07.175 we're working with applicants out what 04:07:07.199 --> 04:07:09.415 their desires are in this space too. So, 04:07:09.439 --> 04:07:11.175 this is where we sort of land in the in 04:07:11.199 --> 04:07:13.096 between space. Um, that's where we got 04:07:13.120 --> 04:07:16.120 to with the hours. Um, it is a tricky 04:07:16.800 --> 04:07:18.455 science, isn't it? So when it comes to 04:07:18.479 --> 04:07:21.479 noise impacts um we we know we can 04:07:21.520 --> 04:07:23.576 measure them um and we can restrict 04:07:23.600 --> 04:07:25.736 hours of operation and and this sort of 04:07:25.760 --> 04:07:28.760 stuff but um when it's temporary use as 04:07:29.600 --> 04:07:32.136 well and we're limiting the days yeah we 04:07:32.160 --> 04:07:33.736 need to still have a sort of balanced 04:07:33.760 --> 04:07:36.760 view. 04:07:37.760 --> 04:07:40.295 Hello, Cable. Well, 04:07:40.319 --> 04:07:41.896 well, I I'd move a slightly different 04:07:41.920 --> 04:07:44.920 recommendation that we we certainly 04:07:45.520 --> 04:07:47.016 need to get a report on the the 04:07:47.040 --> 04:07:49.096 integrity of the the water tank, the 04:07:49.120 --> 04:07:51.896 structural integrity of the water tank 04:07:51.920 --> 04:07:53.816 and 04:07:53.840 --> 04:07:56.136 I would restrict the hours of operation 04:07:56.160 --> 04:07:58.936 to daylight hours. That's that's my 04:07:58.960 --> 04:08:01.016 motion. 04:08:01.040 --> 04:08:03.096 Just need to stipulate a reasoning. So 04:08:03.120 --> 04:08:05.976 we to stipulate a reason why we are 04:08:06.000 --> 04:08:08.455 changing the staff recommendation. 04:08:08.479 --> 04:08:10.936 So we would be charging changing the 04:08:10.960 --> 04:08:12.536 water tank because 04:08:12.560 --> 04:08:14.375 there's no information. There's no 04:08:14.399 --> 04:08:16.056 engineering report on the water tank. 04:08:16.080 --> 04:08:16.455 Yeah. 04:08:16.479 --> 04:08:17.496 We need one. 04:08:17.520 --> 04:08:18.295 Yep. 04:08:18.319 --> 04:08:21.319 And the the community are outraged at 04:08:21.600 --> 04:08:24.600 the possibility of very loud events 04:08:25.439 --> 04:08:27.976 occurring as late as 10:00 at night. and 04:08:28.000 --> 04:08:30.056 and we then and they know the reality of 04:08:30.080 --> 04:08:32.776 the fact that often people stay 04:08:32.800 --> 04:08:35.800 longer than that and 04:08:36.160 --> 04:08:38.455 enjoying a few hours they get it quite 04:08:38.479 --> 04:08:40.776 loud so it can interrupt the the 04:08:40.800 --> 04:08:43.800 tranquility of the the Angrew Valley 04:08:43.920 --> 04:08:45.896 area. 04:08:45.920 --> 04:08:47.335 Just a point of clarification on that 04:08:47.359 --> 04:08:50.295 one through you may is just that we 04:08:50.319 --> 04:08:53.319 assess the application as it is made. So 04:08:53.760 --> 04:08:55.496 the tank wasn't included in this 04:08:55.520 --> 04:08:57.175 development. It's not being constructed. 04:08:57.199 --> 04:08:58.696 that is why that's not been part of the 04:08:58.720 --> 04:09:01.255 assessment. So yeah, just just wanted to 04:09:01.279 --> 04:09:03.576 clarify that piece. We're not we're not 04:09:03.600 --> 04:09:05.576 um assessing the building of the of the 04:09:05.600 --> 04:09:07.576 tank itself. So that is why it hasn't 04:09:07.600 --> 04:09:08.936 been a component. 04:09:08.960 --> 04:09:11.255 No, but why why I've raised that is is 04:09:11.279 --> 04:09:13.255 that 04:09:13.279 --> 04:09:15.415 they've nominated the the lid of that 04:09:15.439 --> 04:09:17.016 tank to be included in some of the 04:09:17.040 --> 04:09:18.936 activity and we need to make sure people 04:09:18.960 --> 04:09:20.455 don't 04:09:20.479 --> 04:09:22.056 they don't crack the lid and fall into 04:09:22.080 --> 04:09:25.080 the the tank. 04:09:25.680 --> 04:09:27.896 We we need to know that that's suitable 04:09:27.920 --> 04:09:30.776 for this for the the uses described 04:09:30.800 --> 04:09:33.255 in the report. 04:09:33.279 --> 04:09:35.255 Um we can suggest that we can add a 04:09:35.279 --> 04:09:37.496 condition we can add a condition of 04:09:37.520 --> 04:09:39.976 consent that is that they require a 04:09:40.000 --> 04:09:43.000 structural report that can be added. Um 04:09:43.760 --> 04:09:45.496 I believe there's draft conditions 04:09:45.520 --> 04:09:48.215 provided in the pack of one of the many 04:09:48.239 --> 04:09:51.239 pages. I've lost track of the pages. 04:09:51.520 --> 04:09:52.776 Bruce, you know which page. I'm sure 04:09:52.800 --> 04:09:53.976 you've got it open right in front of 04:09:54.000 --> 04:09:56.215 you. 04:09:56.239 --> 04:09:58.136 So, I'll take your recommendation. 04:09:58.160 --> 04:10:00.295 Councelor Proudoot. 04:10:00.319 --> 04:10:02.536 Councelor Wilkins, are you seconding the 04:10:02.560 --> 04:10:03.656 recommendation? 04:10:03.680 --> 04:10:06.680 , no. I have No, I'm not. In fact, 04:10:06.720 --> 04:10:07.415 I'm 04:10:07.439 --> 04:10:09.016 I'll just get a second. 04:10:09.040 --> 04:10:10.616 foreshadow a motion. 04:10:10.640 --> 04:10:12.616 Yep. So, do I have a seconder for 04:10:12.640 --> 04:10:14.375 councelor Proudford's recommendation? 04:10:14.399 --> 04:10:17.016 Councelor Clancy. Thank you. So, 04:10:17.040 --> 04:10:19.335 councelor Wilkins, you were next. 04:10:19.359 --> 04:10:22.215 Um, thanks, Madame Mayor. Yes. Um I I'd 04:10:22.239 --> 04:10:25.175 just like to foreshadow a motion to 04:10:25.199 --> 04:10:27.415 refuse the application and and then can 04:10:27.439 --> 04:10:29.096 I speak to that now? 04:10:29.120 --> 04:10:31.255 That that's a foreshadowed. So we'll go 04:10:31.279 --> 04:10:33.576 to the foreshadowed and you'll have if 04:10:33.600 --> 04:10:35.576 this um council proudoot's 04:10:35.600 --> 04:10:38.056 recommendation is voted down then we'll 04:10:38.080 --> 04:10:40.375 go to the foreshadow and you'll have to 04:10:40.399 --> 04:10:42.295 give your reasons why you're refusing 04:10:42.319 --> 04:10:44.215 the application. So that's a foreshadow 04:10:44.239 --> 04:10:45.576 because it's contrary to what we've 04:10:45.600 --> 04:10:47.016 asked for 04:10:47.040 --> 04:10:49.816 um to this recommendation. So I'll come 04:10:49.840 --> 04:10:52.295 back to you with the foreshadow. So my 04:10:52.319 --> 04:10:55.319 next person is councelor um councel Kian 04:11:00.239 --> 04:11:01.816 there. I'm not going to stand up. I'm 04:11:01.840 --> 04:11:04.840 not able to now. Um I will be proposing 04:11:05.120 --> 04:11:07.255 it's not about um councelor Prowoot's 04:11:07.279 --> 04:11:08.856 amendment. It's about the foreshadowed 04:11:08.880 --> 04:11:11.016 motion. It's about the rejection of the 04:11:11.040 --> 04:11:12.616 motion as printed. So do you want me to 04:11:12.640 --> 04:11:14.215 speak now? Is that okay? 04:11:14.239 --> 04:11:15.976 I'll give you my reasons. Um, 04:11:16.000 --> 04:11:17.816 if you're speaking at councelor 04:11:17.840 --> 04:11:19.816 Proudoot's recommendation, no, 04:11:19.840 --> 04:11:21.656 you can speak now. If you're speaking on 04:11:21.680 --> 04:11:22.295 the foreshadow, 04:11:22.319 --> 04:11:23.816 no, there was no recommendation when I 04:11:23.840 --> 04:11:26.696 put my hand up. So, I'll I'll come 04:11:26.720 --> 04:11:27.415 back. 04:11:27.439 --> 04:11:30.136 You'll come back. All right. Councelor 04:11:30.160 --> 04:11:33.160 Clancy is next. 04:11:36.720 --> 04:11:38.776 Sorry. I also have procedural 04:11:38.800 --> 04:11:41.576 information. I 04:11:41.600 --> 04:11:44.600 accidentally mistakenly um seconded 04:11:44.720 --> 04:11:47.720 councelor Proudfoot's motion. Um I don't 04:11:49.199 --> 04:11:50.536 So you want to withdraw your 04:11:50.560 --> 04:11:51.976 I'd like to withdraw that. Yes. 04:11:52.000 --> 04:11:53.976 Fine. I'm happy to second councelor 04:11:54.000 --> 04:11:56.295 Proudoot's recommendation. 04:11:56.319 --> 04:11:59.319 All right. 04:12:01.840 --> 04:12:04.136 Yeah. Point two was in relation to the 04:12:04.160 --> 04:12:07.160 changes of the operating hours, 04:12:07.359 --> 04:12:09.175 the community concerns that sit with 04:12:09.199 --> 04:12:09.816 that. 04:12:09.840 --> 04:12:12.840 Yes. 04:12:14.880 --> 04:12:17.016 Right. So, are you speaking to councelor 04:12:17.040 --> 04:12:18.696 Proudoot's recommendation or an 04:12:18.720 --> 04:12:21.720 alternative recommendation? 04:12:22.080 --> 04:12:24.856 Well, actually, it's pretty much 04:12:24.880 --> 04:12:27.880 I I just have issues with the um water 04:12:28.880 --> 04:12:31.880 tank as well. I don't believe that we 04:12:32.080 --> 04:12:35.080 can allow um intensified use. So having 04:12:35.760 --> 04:12:38.760 40 people sitting on it, dancing on it 04:12:38.960 --> 04:12:41.816 without some sort of um well without an 04:12:41.840 --> 04:12:44.375 an engineering report um I don't feel 04:12:44.399 --> 04:12:47.399 confident that um we can support this 04:12:49.279 --> 04:12:52.279 application. I think 04:12:52.399 --> 04:12:55.255 I have an alternative recommendation. 04:12:55.279 --> 04:12:56.936 No, that'll be a foreshadowed 04:12:56.960 --> 04:12:58.536 recommendation if it's different to 04:12:58.560 --> 04:12:59.816 councelor Proudoots. 04:12:59.840 --> 04:13:01.896 Okay. No, I'm happy to go with C what 04:13:01.920 --> 04:13:03.736 councelor Wilkins has said. 04:13:03.760 --> 04:13:04.696 Right. 04:13:04.720 --> 04:13:06.215 Councelor Boyd. 04:13:06.239 --> 04:13:08.696 Um I have questions 04:13:08.720 --> 04:13:10.536 that I didn't have time to put in the 04:13:10.560 --> 04:13:13.560 system. Um if any of the conditions in 04:13:14.640 --> 04:13:17.255 the DA assessment are not met, what are 04:13:17.279 --> 04:13:19.576 consequences? 04:13:19.600 --> 04:13:22.600 What happens if they don't um 04:13:23.120 --> 04:13:25.976 pack up their 04:13:26.000 --> 04:13:28.696 primitive camping arrangements every 04:13:28.720 --> 04:13:30.616 night within 24 hours of them being 04:13:30.640 --> 04:13:32.616 vacated, etc., etc. There's lots of 04:13:32.640 --> 04:13:34.936 conditions there. What happens when they 04:13:34.960 --> 04:13:37.496 don't do it? If they don't do it, sorry. 04:13:37.520 --> 04:13:39.016 Thank you for your question. , that 04:13:39.040 --> 04:13:40.936 would become a compliance issue. So, if 04:13:40.960 --> 04:13:42.936 that was reported, we would investigate. 04:13:42.960 --> 04:13:45.960 We have to find proof. Um we do this in 04:13:46.159 --> 04:13:48.135 a number of different scenarios, but 04:13:48.159 --> 04:13:50.135 this would be if that if we were someone 04:13:50.159 --> 04:13:52.455 reported, for example, um that they 04:13:52.479 --> 04:13:55.479 suspected that there was illegal um land 04:13:55.520 --> 04:13:58.375 use occurring we can we investigate. 04:13:58.399 --> 04:13:59.816 We've got compliance officers that do 04:13:59.840 --> 04:14:01.896 that. So we would we would investigate 04:14:01.920 --> 04:14:04.135 and if there was evidence and evidence 04:14:04.159 --> 04:14:06.616 collected, then they would be ordered to 04:14:06.640 --> 04:14:09.016 remove the actions that are not legal. 04:14:09.040 --> 04:14:10.135 Yeah. 04:14:10.159 --> 04:14:12.696 And um what happened? This is for 3 04:14:12.720 --> 04:14:15.720 years this temporary approval. Um 04:14:18.880 --> 04:14:21.736 it's a really big investment to 04:14:21.760 --> 04:14:23.976 dismantle everything after 3 years. So 04:14:24.000 --> 04:14:26.215 obvious I assume that after 3 years they 04:14:26.239 --> 04:14:29.239 will reapply. Is that the expectation? 04:14:30.399 --> 04:14:31.896 We can't determine. 04:14:31.920 --> 04:14:34.455 We don't know do we? But I would expect 04:14:34.479 --> 04:14:37.415 after they've invested so much money and 04:14:37.439 --> 04:14:39.656 it's if it's successful they'll want to 04:14:39.680 --> 04:14:42.680 go on. I would think. Um, so 04:14:45.120 --> 04:14:48.120 this really means I mean given that it 04:14:48.960 --> 04:14:51.175 goes on it virtually will become 04:14:51.199 --> 04:14:52.936 permanent. Do you think that's the 04:14:52.960 --> 04:14:55.576 likely scenario? 04:14:55.600 --> 04:14:56.856 , can't answer. 04:14:56.880 --> 04:14:57.415 Could that be? 04:14:57.439 --> 04:14:58.936 It's really It's very hard to know. It's 04:14:58.960 --> 04:15:00.375 very hard to give a certain answer on 04:15:00.399 --> 04:15:03.399 this one. I suppose it is um what would 04:15:03.760 --> 04:15:06.295 be included in in the approval if it was 04:15:06.319 --> 04:15:07.976 to be approved is a number of 04:15:08.000 --> 04:15:09.335 limitations including number of days 04:15:09.359 --> 04:15:12.359 they can trade. So, as far as the um 04:15:13.920 --> 04:15:16.056 Yeah. And I think did we say it was 40 04:15:16.080 --> 04:15:19.080 days proposed? Yeah. So, pretty limited. 04:15:19.359 --> 04:15:21.096 It's not like they'll be trading year 04:15:21.120 --> 04:15:23.576 round, but possibly 04:15:23.600 --> 04:15:25.255 after the 3 years, that's when they 04:15:25.279 --> 04:15:27.255 might want to revisit it. Yeah. 04:15:27.279 --> 04:15:28.776 And um 04:15:28.800 --> 04:15:31.800 I did have another question. 04:15:32.399 --> 04:15:35.399 Do we have the the staff that can go the 04:15:35.439 --> 04:15:38.439 compliance staff that will go out and 04:15:38.479 --> 04:15:41.175 have a look and check it out and make 04:15:41.199 --> 04:15:43.736 sure they're complying? 04:15:43.760 --> 04:15:45.576 , yeah, we definitely have compliance 04:15:45.600 --> 04:15:46.536 staff and we definitely 04:15:46.560 --> 04:15:48.455 I know you have compliance staff. You 04:15:48.479 --> 04:15:50.616 have enough compliance staff to check on 04:15:50.640 --> 04:15:52.776 these things. 04:15:52.800 --> 04:15:54.295 How long is a piece of string, I 04:15:54.319 --> 04:15:56.776 suppose. You know, so definitely we can 04:15:56.800 --> 04:15:58.536 investigate when there's an issue 04:15:58.560 --> 04:16:00.375 to respond to that. I mean, if 04:16:00.399 --> 04:16:01.896 the compliance staff do respond to 04:16:01.920 --> 04:16:02.856 complaints 04:16:02.880 --> 04:16:04.135 as well. 04:16:04.159 --> 04:16:05.016 So, 04:16:05.040 --> 04:16:06.776 you know, that's a two-way thing 04:16:06.800 --> 04:16:08.536 resourcing question. I mean, I' I'd like 04:16:08.560 --> 04:16:11.335 to see city development resourced more. 04:16:11.359 --> 04:16:13.576 So, we've had other motions tonight in 04:16:13.600 --> 04:16:15.896 relation to resourcing and and the 04:16:15.920 --> 04:16:17.175 challenges with it. And the same goes 04:16:17.199 --> 04:16:19.976 with compliance. So, you know, I mean, I 04:16:20.000 --> 04:16:21.976 I think it's really important that we we 04:16:22.000 --> 04:16:23.415 let the community know we are resourced 04:16:23.439 --> 04:16:25.255 up with our compliance officers. They do 04:16:25.279 --> 04:16:26.936 go out, they will penalize, people do 04:16:26.960 --> 04:16:29.255 the wrong thing, you will get caught. 04:16:29.279 --> 04:16:30.936 and that's a really important message. 04:16:30.960 --> 04:16:33.496 And if you know for instance if this 04:16:33.520 --> 04:16:36.215 does ultimately get approved likewise 04:16:36.239 --> 04:16:38.776 they'll be required to comply 04:16:38.800 --> 04:16:40.455 that well that's what I'm concerned 04:16:40.479 --> 04:16:43.335 about that we set all these conditions 04:16:43.359 --> 04:16:44.856 and 04:16:44.880 --> 04:16:47.415 they're not complied with I'm not I know 04:16:47.439 --> 04:16:49.816 we have excellent compliance. I know 04:16:49.840 --> 04:16:50.616 that 04:16:50.640 --> 04:16:53.640 councelor Tribe 04:16:54.399 --> 04:16:56.856 Madame Mayor I I guess the way it's 04:16:56.880 --> 04:16:59.096 written at the moment it's that it's 04:16:59.120 --> 04:17:02.120 approved subject to that condition. So a 04:17:02.800 --> 04:17:04.455 construction certificate won't be issued 04:17:04.479 --> 04:17:07.479 until the structural adequ adequacy 04:17:08.000 --> 04:17:11.000 certificate is provided. I guess what 04:17:11.040 --> 04:17:13.816 are the risks if we if we request that 04:17:13.840 --> 04:17:16.840 report first before approving? Um, is 04:17:17.520 --> 04:17:19.175 there a risk that it's then a deemed 04:17:19.199 --> 04:17:21.335 refusal and we, you know, land ourselves 04:17:21.359 --> 04:17:23.736 in hot water? I I guess I was hoping to 04:17:23.760 --> 04:17:26.760 see that document before we actually 04:17:28.159 --> 04:17:30.696 press the go button. 04:17:30.720 --> 04:17:33.496 Can I get some commentary from staff on 04:17:33.520 --> 04:17:36.520 that one? 04:17:40.399 --> 04:17:43.255 for you over there. Um I mean it would 04:17:43.279 --> 04:17:45.976 be preferable to have that information 04:17:46.000 --> 04:17:48.776 up front. Um but at the same time the 04:17:48.800 --> 04:17:50.616 use can't actually commence until they 04:17:50.640 --> 04:17:52.936 provide that documentation. So council 04:17:52.960 --> 04:17:55.960 has the um the comfort if you like that 04:17:56.479 --> 04:17:58.455 nothing is going to go nothing's going 04:17:58.479 --> 04:18:00.696 to happen until that's provided and if 04:18:00.720 --> 04:18:01.656 they can't provide it they're going to 04:18:01.680 --> 04:18:03.016 have to come back and do something else 04:18:03.040 --> 04:18:06.040 or come back for a modification. 04:18:08.159 --> 04:18:10.056 And I guess because the second part is 04:18:10.080 --> 04:18:12.375 that that conversation hasn't actually 04:18:12.399 --> 04:18:14.295 been had with them either about part two 04:18:14.319 --> 04:18:17.319 in terms of um changing operating hours 04:18:18.399 --> 04:18:21.399 to daylight hours. Um, I realize you're 04:18:22.399 --> 04:18:24.056 probably not up for another foreshadowed 04:18:24.080 --> 04:18:26.215 motion at this point, but I I'd prefer 04:18:26.239 --> 04:18:28.696 that we deferred decision-m until those 04:18:28.720 --> 04:18:31.720 two items were addressed rather than 04:18:32.239 --> 04:18:35.175 giving our approval and then 04:18:35.199 --> 04:18:37.175 addressing one and two if if there's any 04:18:37.199 --> 04:18:38.215 way we could do that. 04:18:38.239 --> 04:18:40.215 So, councelor Proudport, are you happy 04:18:40.239 --> 04:18:41.976 to add that this matter get deferred 04:18:42.000 --> 04:18:44.215 until such time? 04:18:44.239 --> 04:18:47.239 Yep. So we'll add that as point one that 04:18:47.520 --> 04:18:50.520 this matter be deferred 04:18:50.640 --> 04:18:53.496 until such time as the construction 04:18:53.520 --> 04:18:56.520 certificate um 04:18:57.199 --> 04:18:59.496 council sorry director Strauss can 04:18:59.520 --> 04:19:01.896 you do some wording? So we want to defer 04:19:01.920 --> 04:19:03.736 it in relation to getting the 04:19:03.760 --> 04:19:05.896 construction certificate sorry the 04:19:05.920 --> 04:19:08.135 integrity of the water tank not the 04:19:08.159 --> 04:19:09.255 construction certificate 04:19:09.279 --> 04:19:10.936 be a structural adequacy certificate 04:19:10.960 --> 04:19:11.896 first. 04:19:11.920 --> 04:19:14.920 and report it back to council. 04:19:17.120 --> 04:19:19.736 So, you're happy with that councelor um 04:19:19.760 --> 04:19:21.896 Proudford that it gets deferred until we 04:19:21.920 --> 04:19:23.976 get that information and then a further 04:19:24.000 --> 04:19:26.776 report come to council? 04:19:26.800 --> 04:19:28.455 All right. I'm happy for that that it's 04:19:28.479 --> 04:19:30.856 deferred. So, councelor Wilkins, you've 04:19:30.880 --> 04:19:33.255 already spoken. I I have a question. 04:19:33.279 --> 04:19:36.279 Therefore, um if um 04:19:39.439 --> 04:19:41.736 if my foreshadowed motion and the 04:19:41.760 --> 04:19:44.760 argument I have um doesn't involve 04:19:47.439 --> 04:19:50.215 councelor Proudoot's motion and his two 04:19:50.239 --> 04:19:53.239 and yet provides a case for refusal, 04:19:54.319 --> 04:19:55.896 then 04:19:55.920 --> 04:19:58.920 we could rationalize it tonight rather 04:19:59.040 --> 04:20:01.976 than deferring it. 04:20:02.000 --> 04:20:03.576 Right. So, we've still got to vote on 04:20:03.600 --> 04:20:06.295 this one before um we vote on your 04:20:06.319 --> 04:20:06.856 recommendation. 04:20:06.880 --> 04:20:09.255 But if you if you're voting on this one 04:20:09.279 --> 04:20:12.279 first, then surely I should be able 04:20:12.560 --> 04:20:15.415 to speak against his motion. 04:20:15.439 --> 04:20:17.096 That's right. You can speak against this 04:20:17.120 --> 04:20:18.696 recommendation. Okay. I would like 04:20:18.720 --> 04:20:20.776 Do you wish to speak against it? 04:20:20.800 --> 04:20:23.800 yeah. Well, in in doing so, I'll um 04:20:24.159 --> 04:20:26.135 yeah, I'll I'll I'll give a clue as to 04:20:26.159 --> 04:20:27.976 the foreshadowed motion. So I will speak 04:20:28.000 --> 04:20:29.976 against the the motion otherwise I won't 04:20:30.000 --> 04:20:32.616 be heard. Um 04:20:32.640 --> 04:20:34.776 and so I'll try and keep it as brief as 04:20:34.800 --> 04:20:36.936 possible. 04:20:36.960 --> 04:20:39.960 The key point is among many 04:20:41.199 --> 04:20:43.415 clause 2.8b 04:20:43.439 --> 04:20:46.375 the tempor that temporary use will not 04:20:46.399 --> 04:20:49.399 adversely impact on any adjoining land 04:20:49.760 --> 04:20:52.760 or the amenity of the neighborhood. I 04:20:53.199 --> 04:20:56.199 wonder if governance u Sarah do you have 04:20:56.319 --> 04:20:58.056 that little sound bite or not you didn't 04:20:58.080 --> 04:21:01.080 get that or it's only 30 seconds 04:21:02.399 --> 04:21:03.976 while you're queuing it up and if it 04:21:04.000 --> 04:21:06.215 doesn't arrive it's a sound bite of 04:21:06.239 --> 04:21:09.239 silence when we're talking about 04:21:10.239 --> 04:21:13.016 okay this was recorded at midday that's 04:21:13.040 --> 04:21:15.656 my footsteps and then if you can turn it 04:21:15.680 --> 04:21:17.175 up 04:21:17.199 --> 04:21:20.199 as high as you And 04:21:25.279 --> 04:21:27.255 anyway, you get the picture. We're 04:21:27.279 --> 04:21:29.896 talking about an incredibly We're 04:21:29.920 --> 04:21:31.896 talking about an incredible environment 04:21:31.920 --> 04:21:34.920 here where silence does rain. You can 04:21:35.760 --> 04:21:38.760 hear birds walking on bark. You can hear 04:21:39.199 --> 04:21:42.199 the wings of a [ __ ] moth flapping. Um, 04:21:44.720 --> 04:21:47.335 you can hear the the light footsteps of 04:21:47.359 --> 04:21:50.359 a rock walabe. It's not any ordinary 04:21:50.800 --> 04:21:53.016 part of the world. 04:21:53.040 --> 04:21:55.096 It's right in the heart of Kangaroo 04:21:55.120 --> 04:21:58.120 Valley on the way to Talawa Dam and it's 04:21:59.359 --> 04:22:02.359 it's a remote beautiful part that the 04:22:03.199 --> 04:22:06.199 Sydney Bushw walkers are there is is a 04:22:07.920 --> 04:22:10.920 feature but it's incidental 04:22:11.120 --> 04:22:14.120 I believe to clause 2.8 adverse impacts. 04:22:17.040 --> 04:22:20.040 Now we're proposing or they're proposing 04:22:20.479 --> 04:22:23.479 they did propose 120 patient patrons and 04:22:23.760 --> 04:22:26.760 now it's 100 to 10:00 at night. Now 04:22:27.760 --> 04:22:30.215 they've used Harwood acoustics for a 04:22:30.239 --> 04:22:32.135 very detailed report. It goes on and on 04:22:32.159 --> 04:22:33.896 and on but I'm trying to crystallize it 04:22:33.920 --> 04:22:36.455 here. The predicted noise levels at all 04:22:36.479 --> 04:22:38.936 receptors are all are below considerably 04:22:38.960 --> 04:22:41.415 below more stringent noise limits that 04:22:41.439 --> 04:22:43.496 would typically apply to licensed 04:22:43.520 --> 04:22:46.295 premises under liquor and gaming New 04:22:46.319 --> 04:22:48.536 South Wales requirements for guest and 04:22:48.560 --> 04:22:51.496 music noise. So you know what's that 04:22:51.520 --> 04:22:54.520 could be a pub down at neutral bay or 04:22:54.560 --> 04:22:56.536 out in the west or somewhere like that 04:22:56.560 --> 04:22:59.560 or or even you know in in um in a more 04:23:00.000 --> 04:23:02.056 builtup environment. 04:23:02.080 --> 04:23:05.080 Um they go on specifically on that 04:23:06.399 --> 04:23:09.175 point that the noise 04:23:09.199 --> 04:23:11.816 um of the scale is somewhere between 04:23:11.840 --> 04:23:14.536 inside a bedroom with windows closed and 04:23:14.560 --> 04:23:17.096 a quiet countryside. 04:23:17.120 --> 04:23:20.120 Now, it's my assertion that they they 04:23:21.120 --> 04:23:24.120 can't possibly come to that conclusion 04:23:24.800 --> 04:23:27.415 as the fire shelter which is going to be 04:23:27.439 --> 04:23:30.439 housing people as a function center for 04:23:31.040 --> 04:23:34.040 100 people hasn't been built. So, you 04:23:34.720 --> 04:23:37.175 don't know the level of soundproofing 04:23:37.199 --> 04:23:40.056 it's going to have. You don't know um 04:23:40.080 --> 04:23:42.696 the noise level. It's immeasurable at 04:23:42.720 --> 04:23:45.720 the moment. So how can the proponent 04:23:46.080 --> 04:23:48.856 possibly say that in their report 04:23:48.880 --> 04:23:50.616 that the well in the summary of 04:23:50.640 --> 04:23:52.215 conclusion here potential amenity 04:23:52.239 --> 04:23:53.976 impacts associated with the development 04:23:54.000 --> 04:23:55.816 are capable of being appropriately 04:23:55.840 --> 04:23:58.840 ameliated without significant impacts on 04:23:58.880 --> 04:24:01.175 surrounding development 04:24:01.199 --> 04:24:02.936 that in concert with the proposed 04:24:02.960 --> 04:24:04.856 development does not conflict with the 04:24:04.880 --> 04:24:06.776 public interest. Well, there were 39 04:24:06.800 --> 04:24:09.415 submissions and 38 were against it. And 04:24:09.439 --> 04:24:12.439 what they're against is that destruction 04:24:13.120 --> 04:24:15.816 of the beautiful environment by the 04:24:15.840 --> 04:24:16.696 noise levels. 04:24:16.720 --> 04:24:18.295 I'll stop you there because you're 04:24:18.319 --> 04:24:21.319 talking about the next um foreshadowed 04:24:21.840 --> 04:24:23.656 and not about the water tank and why 04:24:23.680 --> 04:24:24.616 we're deferring it. 04:24:24.640 --> 04:24:26.536 well, I'm just saying that the water 04:24:26.560 --> 04:24:27.175 tank 04:24:27.199 --> 04:24:28.616 I'm mindful of the time. 04:24:28.640 --> 04:24:28.936 Yeah. 04:24:28.960 --> 04:24:30.776 And I've had three speakers speak 04:24:30.800 --> 04:24:32.936 against the amendment. So, I'm going to 04:24:32.960 --> 04:24:34.616 go back to councelor proud foot. Oh, 04:24:34.640 --> 04:24:36.936 sorry. Yeah. Who moved the Yeah, you 04:24:36.960 --> 04:24:39.415 moved the recommendation. So, um going 04:24:39.439 --> 04:24:41.816 back to councelor Proudfoot, write a 04:24:41.840 --> 04:24:44.056 reply on your change. 04:24:44.080 --> 04:24:44.776 Wave that. 04:24:44.800 --> 04:24:47.175 Wave for the right of reply. So, those 04:24:47.199 --> 04:24:50.199 voting against councelor um Proudfoot's 04:24:50.319 --> 04:24:52.056 recommendation. 04:24:52.080 --> 04:24:54.455 So, council crystal, council Norris, 04:24:54.479 --> 04:24:56.375 council clansy, councelor Boyd, 04:24:56.399 --> 04:24:59.399 councelor Killian, councelor Wilkins, 04:25:00.800 --> 04:25:03.800 um councelor Dunn. 04:25:03.840 --> 04:25:06.840 Um and those voting for the um 04:25:07.120 --> 04:25:10.056 recommendation, Council Casmir, Council 04:25:10.080 --> 04:25:12.135 Proudful, Council Tribe, Council Steele, 04:25:12.159 --> 04:25:15.159 Council Kemp, and Council White. 04:25:16.080 --> 04:25:16.856 Sorry, 04:25:16.880 --> 04:25:18.936 Councelor D voted four. 04:25:18.960 --> 04:25:21.816 Oh, she voted four. Sorry. So, she voted 04:25:21.840 --> 04:25:24.840 four. So, that is 04:25:25.680 --> 04:25:27.335 lost or 04:25:27.359 --> 04:25:28.375 that was carried. 04:25:28.399 --> 04:25:31.399 It was carried. So, councelor um 04:25:31.680 --> 04:25:33.656 Proudfoots has been carried. So 04:25:33.680 --> 04:25:36.680 therefore the um it'll come back to 04:25:36.880 --> 04:25:38.536 council. It's been deferred. It'll come 04:25:38.560 --> 04:25:41.016 back to council. Um so it can be 04:25:41.040 --> 04:25:42.696 discussed again at the council when we 04:25:42.720 --> 04:25:45.335 get a further report. All right. So 04:25:45.359 --> 04:25:47.576 we'll go to the last item which is 04:25:47.600 --> 04:25:50.600 councelor proudoot's item which is um 04:25:52.319 --> 04:25:55.319 CL26116 04:25:55.520 --> 04:25:57.896 which is the street. Councelor Proudful. 04:25:57.920 --> 04:25:59.335 I move the recommendation. 04:25:59.359 --> 04:26:01.496 I'm happy to second it. Um, do you wish 04:26:01.520 --> 04:26:04.520 to speak to it, Council Proudoot? 04:26:05.840 --> 04:26:07.896 , 04:26:07.920 --> 04:26:10.920 well, I got the numbers. I won't 04:26:11.680 --> 04:26:13.335 Well, you got a minute to speak cuz 04:26:13.359 --> 04:26:14.696 we're going to have to close the meeting 04:26:14.720 --> 04:26:15.335 and we need 04:26:15.359 --> 04:26:18.056 Well, I think it's all been assessed by 04:26:18.080 --> 04:26:20.295 our professional staff. I I accept the 04:26:20.319 --> 04:26:23.319 report. I've read the the attachments 04:26:24.399 --> 04:26:27.399 where the the applicant's submission 04:26:27.520 --> 04:26:30.520 right at the back of the the 04:26:31.600 --> 04:26:34.600 attachments here. Look at the pages 600 04:26:36.399 --> 04:26:39.399 776 to 775. 04:26:40.239 --> 04:26:42.455 Our staff has made their analysis of 04:26:42.479 --> 04:26:45.479 that and it seems to me to be in fitting 04:26:45.840 --> 04:26:48.056 with the local building lines and the 04:26:48.080 --> 04:26:51.080 local developments in Fergus Street but 04:26:51.279 --> 04:26:54.279 also in in narrow street. So 04:26:54.319 --> 04:26:55.016 yeah, 04:26:55.040 --> 04:26:57.255 I recommend the motion to you. 04:26:57.279 --> 04:26:59.175 Who want this? Council 04:26:59.199 --> 04:27:01.656 councelor Kellian. 04:27:01.680 --> 04:27:04.680 I um I understand that the neighboring 04:27:05.520 --> 04:27:08.520 property person has said that sight 04:27:10.000 --> 04:27:11.816 lines from this development will go 04:27:11.840 --> 04:27:14.840 straight into his um living areas and 04:27:15.199 --> 04:27:18.199 into the private space in the yard. 04:27:18.399 --> 04:27:20.455 um has that been assessed and are we 04:27:20.479 --> 04:27:23.096 confident that that is not the case 04:27:23.120 --> 04:27:26.120 because that's of concern 04:27:29.359 --> 04:27:30.936 through you madame may and thank you for 04:27:30.960 --> 04:27:33.175 your question Bruce I'm going to refer 04:27:33.199 --> 04:27:34.616 to you because I know that that was 04:27:34.640 --> 04:27:36.215 considered in the assessment so that's 04:27:36.239 --> 04:27:39.096 just yep 04:27:39.120 --> 04:27:41.096 yep through you madame mayor and 04:27:41.120 --> 04:27:43.415 thank you for the question it this issue 04:27:43.439 --> 04:27:46.439 was was assessed and there was um the 04:27:47.840 --> 04:27:49.896 The staff considered that there was 04:27:49.920 --> 04:27:52.215 appropriate separation and distance 04:27:52.239 --> 04:27:53.255 between 04:27:53.279 --> 04:27:53.816 metals. 04:27:53.840 --> 04:27:55.816 Windows windows. Yeah. Signes. 04:27:55.840 --> 04:27:58.536 Good jumpers. 04:27:58.560 --> 04:28:01.560 Any further discussion or questions? 04:28:01.760 --> 04:28:03.656 Write a reply. Councelor Proudford 04:28:03.680 --> 04:28:04.936 quickly. 04:28:04.960 --> 04:28:07.016 No. So I'll put the recommendation. 04:28:07.040 --> 04:28:10.040 Anybody wishing to vote against? 04:28:10.080 --> 04:28:11.576 If not, I declare that carried 04:28:11.600 --> 04:28:13.096 unanimously. 04:28:13.120 --> 04:28:16.120 Um, so do we have any housekeeping in 04:28:17.120 --> 04:28:18.776 relation to 04:28:18.800 --> 04:28:20.455 voting? Didn't was there any 04:28:20.479 --> 04:28:21.656 housekeeping? I don't think there was 04:28:21.680 --> 04:28:23.255 any housekeeping in relation to voting 04:28:23.279 --> 04:28:24.616 this evening, Sarah. No, 04:28:24.640 --> 04:28:24.936 no, 04:28:24.960 --> 04:28:25.736 no. 04:28:25.760 --> 04:28:28.760 So, I will leave the audio on to read 04:28:29.040 --> 04:28:30.856 the confidential recommendations after 04:28:30.880 --> 04:28:32.776 you close the meeting if that's okay. 04:28:32.800 --> 04:28:34.215 Yep. So, I'll close the meeting and 04:28:34.239 --> 04:28:36.056 thank you councilors. I know it's been a 04:28:36.080 --> 04:28:38.375 long um meeting, an extra hour and a 04:28:38.399 --> 04:28:40.295 half, but there was some very important 04:28:40.319 --> 04:28:42.215 things that we needed to talk about. 04:28:42.239 --> 04:28:45.239 Thank you. 04:28:57.680 --> 04:29:00.680 That was that was all over the place. 04:29:01.120 --> 04:29:03.736 Oh, son-in-law. Yeah, it's been it's 04:29:03.760 --> 04:29:05.896 been a hard soul in the last few months. 04:29:05.920 --> 04:29:08.920 So, and thank you for doing the public 04:29:09.359 --> 04:29:12.359 forums cuz I 04:29:19.680 --> 04:29:21.255 Okay, I'm just going to report on the 04:29:21.279 --> 04:29:21.496 Can we 04:29:21.520 --> 04:29:24.295 just be a bit quiet? 04:29:24.319 --> 04:29:25.496 I'm just going to report on the 04:29:25.520 --> 04:29:28.520 confidential agenda items. , CL, 04:29:29.680 --> 04:29:32.680 sorry, CCL 26.11, 04:29:32.800 --> 04:29:35.800 CCL 26.12 and CCL 26.13. 04:29:38.560 --> 04:29:39.976 first of all in relation to the bad 04:29:40.000 --> 04:29:43.000 debts write off C CL 26.11 the 04:29:43.199 --> 04:29:45.415 recommendation was that outstanding 04:29:45.439 --> 04:29:46.936 debts 04:29:46.960 --> 04:29:49.960 totaling $843,571.7 04:29:51.120 --> 04:29:54.120 incurred by 33 separate and unrelated 04:29:54.159 --> 04:29:57.096 debtors be approved for write off in 04:29:57.120 --> 04:30:00.120 accordance with clause 213 of the local 04:30:00.319 --> 04:30:03.319 government general regulation 2021 04:30:06.720 --> 04:30:09.720 in relation to CCL L 26.12 04:30:11.120 --> 04:30:14.120 Cabara Beach Roads and Roads Reserves 04:30:14.319 --> 04:30:15.896 recommendation that council approves and 04:30:15.920 --> 04:30:17.656 authorizes the chief executive officer 04:30:17.680 --> 04:30:19.976 director city services with delegated 04:30:20.000 --> 04:30:22.536 authority to one undertake negotiations 04:30:22.560 --> 04:30:25.415 with the title holder of title volume 04:30:25.439 --> 04:30:27.255 3433 04:30:27.279 --> 04:30:30.279 folio 244 to settle the dispute in the 04:30:30.560 --> 04:30:32.455 best terms possible having regard to 04:30:32.479 --> 04:30:34.215 council and committee interest to 04:30:34.239 --> 04:30:35.816 negotiate and execute a deed of 04:30:35.840 --> 04:30:38.056 settlement and/or any any other document 04:30:38.080 --> 04:30:39.896 required to give effect to the 04:30:39.920 --> 04:30:42.056 settlement. Three, negotiate and execute 04:30:42.080 --> 04:30:44.375 any easements, caveats or other such 04:30:44.399 --> 04:30:46.616 documentation associated with the terms 04:30:46.640 --> 04:30:48.856 of settlement and/or dedication of any 04:30:48.880 --> 04:30:51.880 land. 04:30:52.399 --> 04:30:55.016 And in relation to 04:30:55.040 --> 04:30:58.040 CCL 26.13 tenders linen highire supply 04:30:58.159 --> 04:31:01.016 and laundering to holiday Shoalhaven parks 04:31:01.040 --> 04:31:02.375 the recommendation is that council 04:31:02.399 --> 04:31:03.896 endorses a recommendation of the tender 04:31:03.920 --> 04:31:06.920 evaluation panel accepts a tender from 04:31:07.199 --> 04:31:09.016 also proprietary limited for provision 04:31:09.040 --> 04:31:11.175 of linen high supply and laundering as 04:31:11.199 --> 04:31:14.199 per the schedule of rates tended to the 04:31:14.399 --> 04:31:16.856 contract documents and any other 04:31:16.880 --> 04:31:18.776 associated documents be executed on 04:31:18.800 --> 04:31:20.295 behalf of the council in accordance with 04:31:20.319 --> 04:31:23.319 local Government General Regulation 2021 04:31:23.439 --> 04:31:26.056 section 165 by the CEO Director of City 04:31:26.080 --> 04:31:29.080 Services. Thank you.